Vintage work crew photos

[Frank S]

The problem in allowing the government to get involved in anything is it makes everything 10 times more costly than it should be and is never efficient. Big corporate would never go for it for many of the reasons mentioned plus top management wouldn't be able to siphon as much profits away from the shareholders as everyone having their own micro-grids would be in effect investors

[mwmkravchenko]

The problem in allowing the government to get involved in anything is it makes everything 10 times more costly than it should be and is never efficient. Big corporate would never go for it for many of the reasons mentioned plus top management wouldn't be able to siphon as much profits away from the shareholders as everyone having their own micro-grids would be in effect investors

I agree. Just look at the latest NASA rocket or the F35 for well run and managed fiscally responsible programs created to line the pockets of large companies. Wasn't it Eisenhower who used the term military industrial complex. That's one of the largest drivers of the U.S. economy. Making it monetarily accountable would cost a great many well paying jobs. Similar things go on in Canada and every other developed nation. Truly sad. What needs to be done is known very well. Will it get done? I doubt it in my lifetime.

[Toolmaker51]

I'll let this state what freedom is . . .



Subjective, in every sense of the word

[Frank S]

I think we have run this thread run off the rails, time for Jon to post us another picture to put us back on track

[schuylergrace]

Ercop dropped the ball last winter due to the high reliance on wind and solar, for each megawatt of wind or solar there is supposed to be an equally sized Natural gas generator as back up or standby. Natural gas generators are the only thing that can be powered up and brought online on demand. due to the nationwide scamdemic many natural gas intensifying stations were left short staffed or in many cases taken off line completely, the high demand for gas to heat homes and run other things reduced the quanity and pressures required to run the generators,many of the generators were not even maintained to be brought online at all so there was power outages.

In fact, a study done by the state showed that wind and solar played a large part in propping up the grid. The problems were twofold: 1.) The natural gas production facilities supplying the generating stations were never properly winterized, so they were going offline as they froze up, and 2.) After ERCOT ordered all the utilities to start cutting power to keep the grid from completely going down and suffering major damage, some cut power to the natural gas suppliers and distributors, which made the problem even worse. However, even though folks early on blamed renewable energy producers as the problem, they were online with all their normal production facilities and actually saved the day (along with nuclear and coal, to be fair). Interestingly enough, the Texas legislature took relatively quick action to "ensure" this doesn't happen, again, but with one major shortcoming--they didn't require the gas producers to take steps to properly winterize their facilities, which was the cause of all this mess.

But I do agree that distributed generation is going to be the wave of the future, if the big utilities don't get their way. In nearly every state, they are trying to push through laws that will restrict implementation of independent home/business solar systems and stop states from forcing them to purchase excess power that's generated. It only makes sense to take the physical grid out of the equation in large part, both to cut electrical losses, as well as reduce construction and maintenance costs. Of course, you'd still need the grid to dump excess power onto, to support homes and businesses that don't have solar (or wind or water), and to provide power when the local source is down for whatever reason. But it wouldn't need to be nearly the grid we have today, especially the huge, long distance transmission lines.

[schuylergrace]

I'll let this state what freedom is . . .



Subjective, in every sense of the word

Just a quick reminder: The government is us. We elected people to make those laws and regulations in order to live in a more ordered and civilized society. So, blaming "The Government" is simply blaming yourself and everyone else who lives here. You may not agree with the way the government is working, and we have remedies for that via your vote and your voice. Personally, I don't want to go back to the days when you could just take whatever land you wanted or build a house with faulty wiring and sell it to some unsuspecting person or have just anyone behind the wheel of a Mack truck.

[TrickieDickie]

Electric automobiles were around before the first gas powered vehicle and to this day batteries still do not have the same power density as fossil fuels. I remember Katrina back in 2005 and big areas of Louisiana was without power, some for weeks, there was no power at my house for 6 days. There were long gas lines at what few stations open.....have these Greenies contemplated how to charge a battery in a "grid down scenario"? I suspect they will bring in diesel powered generators.

[schuylergrace]

Electric automobiles were around before the first gas powered vehicle and to this day batteries still do not have the same power density as fossil fuels. I remember Katrina back in 2005 and big areas of Louisiana was without power, some for weeks, there was no power at my house for 6 days. There were long gas lines at what few stations open.....have these Greenies contemplated how to charge a battery in a "grid down scenario"? I suspect they will bring in diesel powered generators.

Yes, but before electric vehicles, there were steam powered vehicles, and we still use steam technology (in a much more refined way) to generate electricity today. Batteries are the same--we went from one-use cells to rechargeable to today's high power density (but not yet the same as gas), and they, along with electric motor technology, continue to improve. Gas and diesel engines have to some extent, but not on the scale of electric (or steam, for that matter). There are also more important and less dangerous uses for our finite oil reserves.

And regarding your how to keep your house and car running in the event of a grid disaster, the ideal solution would be to have your own generation and storage capability (solar panels or turbines and batteries). Your house would operate primarily off your own generating capacity, but you can pull from the grid when you turn on your three-phase milling machine or dump your excess power back onto the grid after your batteries charge. In fact, Tesla has already delivered several larger generating stations/batteries to areas struck by natural disasters to localize power. You'd just have the same gear--it's available today--in your home, but on a smaller scale. We aren't there, yet, and there will be major growing pains, but I really think that's the way we are headed.

[Rikk]

I think we have run this thread run off the rails, time for Jon to post us another picture to put us back on track

AGREED!!!!


The Iron Range & Huron Bay Railroad (IR&HB) is a defunct railroad constructed to haul iron ore in Michigan's Upper Peninsula during the 1890s. Financial and engineering problems prevented the railroad's operation; it remains an unusual example of a railroad which was completed but never used.





The terrain for the line proved forbidding. The country was hilly and broken; grading the roadbed proved an expensive and intensive activity. By June 1891 an initial workforce of 500 men had swelled to 1,500, which strained the local transportation network. The builder, Wallace Dingman of Battle Creek, Michigan, ran out of money in August and abandoned work, leaving the IR&HB with unpaid bills and swamping Marquette County's limited poor relief resources.[7] New contractors were hired and the grading was finally finished in the summer of 1892, reportedly at the cost of $400,000–well above the $265,000 budgeted for the project. One major obstacle was a 1,000-foot (305 m) cut near Mount Arvon, from which 40,000 cubic yards (31,000 m3) of rock were removed. The rails were laid between July and November 1892.

The ore dock was built on the shores of Huron Bay for $170,000 under the supervision of John Munro, Jr. It measured 1,000 feet (305 m) in length and required 2,000,000 board feet (4,719 m3) of lumber. A sawmill was constructed to process the vast amounts of timber necessary for the project.

Although the IR&HB completed the 42-mile (68 km) line[10] between Champion and Huron Bay and purchased two 4-8-0 "Mastodon" steam locomotives from the Brooks Locomotive Works, no trains were ever operated. Reference Barnett implies 35 miles in his calculates; Dompier claims 42 miles, as does the Times article cited below. The completion of the line coincided with the Panic of 1893, which reduced the demand for iron ore. Additionally, the ore mines around Lake Michigamme–which the IR&HB had intended to serve–began to play out. There were richer mines in Ishpeming to the east, but the IR&HB lacked the wherewithal to construct such a line, which would have spanned 15 to 20 miles (24 to 32 km). In places the IR&HB line exceeded a grade of 5%, which would have made the haulage of freight difficult. For a standard-gauge non-rack rail railroad like the IR&HB, 3% was "excessive" and anything over 4.5% unheard of. Some sources claim the IR&HB exceeded 8% in places.

A test run was done with one of the newly delivered locomotives. A number of internet sources cite differing times, length of the travel and the outcome. A fair use quote of the 2 M ride page from Sam Beck, a railroad watchman: “As the last eleven miles of the road were downgrade, we decided the uphill run from Huron Bay would be a good test. I was in the cab with the engineer and we had proceeded just a short distance up the grade when the railroad gave way and we went into a ditch.” “From that moment on, the Iron Range and Huron Bay Railroad ceased to exist as a railroad!”

By 1893 the IR&HB found itself in serious financial difficulties. In 1890 it had begun with $1,400,000 in capital through an initial stock issue coupled with the sale of bonds. Additional bonds worth $600,000 were sold to cover construction overruns and keep the railroad afloat, but its debts mounted. Finally, in 1900, the company's owners sold it outright to the Detroit Construction Company for $110,000.

You can still visit this location today if you are willing to do a bit of hiking.

[carl blum]

The aluminum Apex was the largest piece of aluminum at the time, and had the value of silver. Carl.