Vice Metal Casting from 3D Printed Patterns

[MetalDesigner]

Really glad you "rambled on a bit", MetalDesigner! Great info, links and note worthy opinions.

I think you and Frank S put the nail on it with Software being one of the major keys to putting a system together. I'm an Old ACAD guy (back to V1 thru V2014) and found throughout my tenure that some versions really rocked, others were nothing more than bloatware for special interests or buggy as heck. One thing that I enjoyed over the years was writing LISP routines to make life easier with it. It was also the reason I got involved years ago with SW and getting a developer copy...but had/have difficulty with the interface. It just wasn't intuitive to me but the whole parametric design process was a boon to industry in the long run and followed the higher end software in big industry, bringing it to a more common ground.

To me the key is a good GUI that you don't have to drill down for days to get to the details. Also the portability to other platforms like Frank mentioned. If you can't communicate it to others upstream or downstream or have to "buy" an IGES module to port it (like ACAD did at one point) it becomes a burden to the design process. The First thing I looked at about your "Onshape" recommendation was just that, and seemed to have covered all the bases. Lastly that it can be learned relatively quickly, allowing one to be productive in a short period, creating those "future successes" and making it fun.

Your points about the software for the printer are much appreciated from your vast background in use. I saw way too many CAD/Cam programs iterate into oblivion for some of the reasons you point out, plus the seat costs on top of it. The one thing that concerns me in delving into this is the standardized file types. It appears the defacto standard is STL but am seeing some of the others, depending on the machine and it's interface. I would be very interested in your thoughts on this. What you described with the support material is a great feature instead of having to figure it out on the design end.

One other thing I would greatly value your opinion on is the machine maintenance. How much cleaning after a print or prints, or nozzle cleaning, tables, belts, heads, re-calibrating speeds & feeds or Origins, etc. When and if you have time.

The new trend in Additive manufacturing seems to be a big boon to production and a change in approach from the engineering side. But, are we just making throw away things faster? 3D sintering turbine blades (Roll Royce) is one thing compared to a 50-100T forge press but worry about printing car frames/body parts and the waste stream to resolve them. For me the bigger value is in Rapid Proto work and being able to flush out a design quickly and relatively inexpensively to satisfy the Marketing mindset. IMHO this has brought a Bain to our world in the next new i-product every 15 minutes leaving the previous to flush into the ground or hopefully recycled...and at what costs to produce at that rate. Don't get me wrong, I love my Old Nexus 7 tablet and one day will relegate it to a DRO interface when your buddy dials it in for production but still use it in the shop for various things as well as checking on the Basketball scores or reading an e-book...but as with most bloatware (android/apple) and "Free Apps" they take over and turn it into a slug until you have to upgrade...a sad testimony to Marketing your/our personal information. OOP's, Apologies for the soap box and too many "...'s"!

Once again in our lifetimes we get to witness and be apart of an Amazing transformation through technology. My son and I have considered investing for a while now, in a medium level machine to do some proto work and take on some work in rapid proto. I am really grateful you have shared all this with us. I learned a bunch of the nuts and bolts I look for in learning something new. Mostly I appreciate your forward looking approach to design and re-purposing materials in thoughtful ways. Looking forward to future posts and projects you share with us!

Thanks Again!! ~PJ

Sorry... I rambled on and forgot to mention that in the future I will try to make a video or website posting about the Set-Up and Maintenance, and how to Start a Print for my AFINIA 3D-Printer ... and maybe that will help understanding more of the process when comparing to other 3D-Printers.


CHEERS!!

[Frank S]

Metal designer my traveling PC became my only PC when I returned from Kuwait in 2013 since none of my 2 40 ft containers full of machines, office equipment, library, or house hold goods ever made the trip.
My little laptop was not a low end unit nor was it the tip top brand high end one either it is about 1/4 of either of my 2 personal desktops were but it still is a 64 bit plat form core I 7 winn 7 with 8 processors @ 2.00 GHz 2001 Mhz 16 GB installed memory with 31 GB virtual memory and a tiny little 1 TB hard drive It does the job well enough for what it is but when I want to run simulations in SW on it I might as well brew up a fresh pot of jo. But what the hey I paid more for just the mother board without processors on my desktops than this laptop cost me 6 years ago.
A few months back I started looking into a DIY 3d printer, there are numerous builds on the net and now at least nearly as many project kits. I was at a trades fair in Stuttgart Germany several years ago where an enterprising young man had actually cobbled together some random linear slides with servos and stepper motors and a laser to make fluid bead growth printer. All you could see while the process was going on was some movement after about 15 minutes it stopped the beads were vacuumed away and a 6 inch fully functional adjustable wrench lay there I found it intriguing to say the least

[MetalDesigner]

Metal designer my traveling PC became my only PC when I returned from Kuwait in 2013 since none of my 2 40 ft containers full of machines, office equipment, library, or house hold goods ever made the trip.
My little laptop was not a low end unit nor was it the tip top brand high end one either it is about 1/4 of either of my 2 personal desktops were but it still is a 64 bit plat form core I 7 winn 7 with 8 processors @ 2.00 GHz 2001 Mhz 16 GB installed memory with 31 GB virtual memory and a tiny little 1 TB hard drive It does the job well enough for what it is but when I want to run simulations in SW on it I might as well brew up a fresh pot of jo. But what the hey I paid more for just the mother board without processors on my desktops than this laptop cost me 6 years ago.
A few months back I started looking into a DIY 3d printer, there are numerous builds on the net and now at least nearly as many project kits. I was at a trades fair in Stuttgart Germany several years ago where an enterprising young man had actually cobbled together some random linear slides with servos and stepper motors and a laser to make fluid bead growth printer. All you could see while the process was going on was some movement after about 15 minutes it stopped the beads were vacuumed away and a 6 inch fully functional adjustable wrench lay there I found it intriguing to say the least

Your laptop would work great to run that H-480 AFINIA I have. Use a 2008 Sony VAIO Laptop with Vista OS to run it and works great. One of the things I didn't know the H-480 could do is it has the ability to be disconnected from the computer once the 3D-print is started which is very helpful.
I can start a 3D-print and then pull out the USB connection to the 3D-Printer and then use the Laptop on the CNC Mini Mill.

A 3D-Printed Fully functional adjustable wrench is pretty darn cool!! ... I have heard people do that, but never seen one in person. Saw at a trade-show a closed box 3D-printed with gears inside with only shafts coming out on both sides ... you could turn one shaft and the other one turned half the rotations ... they washed the support material out through the small gaps between holes in the box where the shafts came out.

While they can 3D-Print Titanium now ~ I think once the strength of 3D-Printed metals gets to where parts can hold 10,000 PSI pressures then it will change fabrication as we know it because engineers will be able to design items based off the need of the hydraulic items, not by what tooling will reach.

Think of the hydraulic manifolds that can be built inside other parts because the insides of the manifolds don't have to be machined ... and possibly automatic transmissions can be built differently.

My 3D-Printed items a just simplistic ... but they work for my need.
https://ctmprojectsblog.wordpress.co...l-press-knobs/

Cool Stuff!! THANKS FOR THE NOTE!!

[Frank S]

Your laptop would work great to run that H-480 AFINIA I have. Use a 2008 Sony VAIO Laptop with Vista OS to run it and works great. One of the things I didn't know the H-480 could do is it has the ability to be disconnected from the computer once the 3D-print is started which is very helpful.
I can start a 3D-print and then pull out the USB connection to the 3D-Printer and then use the Laptop on the CNC Mini Mill.

A 3D-Printed Fully functional adjustable wrench is pretty darn cool!! ... I have heard people do that, but never seen one in person. Saw at a trade-show a closed box 3D-printed with gears inside with only shafts coming out on both sides ... you could turn one shaft and the other one turned half the rotations ... they washed the support material out through the small gaps between holes in the box where the shafts came out.

While they can 3D-Print Titanium now ~ I think once the strength of 3D-Printed metals gets to where parts can hold 10,000 PSI pressures then it will change fabrication as we know it because engineers will be able to design items based off the need of the hydraulic items, not by what tooling will reach.

Think of the hydraulic manifolds that can be built inside other parts because the insides of the manifolds don't have to be machined ... and possibly automatic transmissions can be built differently.

My 3D-Printed items a just simplistic ... but they work for my need.
https://ctmprojectsblog.wordpress.co...l-press-knobs/

Cool Stuff!! THANKS FOR THE NOTE!!

Then when I have to make manifolds like this I would possibly only need the cavity burnishing tool and a clean out tap.
instead of the many steps that were involved in making the prototype valve body. let alone the time it took for 300 of them to be made. all done in a PRE CNC era
I spent days drawing it up having to re draw it several times to insure that all fittings, solenoid valves and and associated plumbing lines would fit together without conflict. and with the minimum number of transitions then a full day machining one out on my Bridgeport 2 HP J head then once I sourced a production machine shop who would even consider manufacturing a single run of 300 blocks at a price which would fit into my budget

Or this one

While these actually had a simple logic, extremely simple when compared to many other hydraulic manifold circuits with the right type of printer I could have saved several fittings and passageway plugs and material optimization even on them
When a 3d metal molecular transference printer with sustainable repeatable quality and strength becomes available at a price that a modestly funded machine shop could afford. There will be several things that will happen First shops who specialize in restorations of vintage or impossible to find parts will suddenly have a means to reproduce things that have not been manufactured in over 100 years. Second like you stated engineers will have one more great tool in their arsenal for creativity
I know that over thye years I have designed many things that while technically possible to make and in some cases would be functionally superior to anything produced the feasibility of manufacture would be so cost prohibitive even when using the most advanced machining center on the planet.
Using lost wax ceramic molding process could not even offset enough cost to make the items viable.

[MetalDesigner]

Then when I have to make manifolds like this I would possibly only need the cavity burnishing tool and a clean out tap.
instead of the many steps that were involved in making the prototype valve body. let alone the time it took for 300 of them to be made. all done in a PRE CNC era
I spent days drawing it up having to re draw it several times to insure that all fittings, solenoid valves and and associated plumbing lines would fit together without conflict. and with the minimum number of transitions then a full day machining one out on my Bridgeport 2 HP J head then once I sourced a production machine shop who would even consider manufacturing a single run of 300 blocks at a price which would fit into my budget

Or this one

While these actually had a simple logic, extremely simple when compared to many other hydraulic manifold circuits with the right type of printer I could have saved several fittings and passageway plugs and material optimization even on them
When a 3d metal molecular transference printer with sustainable repeatable quality and strength becomes available at a price that a modestly funded machine shop could afford. There will be several things that will happen First shops who specialize in restorations of vintage or impossible to find parts will suddenly have a means to reproduce things that have not been manufactured in over 100 years. Second like you stated engineers will have one more great tool in their arsenal for creativity
I know that over thye years I have designed many things that while technically possible to make and in some cases would be functionally superior to anything produced the feasibility of manufacture would be so cost prohibitive even when using the most advanced machining center on the planet.
Using lost wax ceramic molding process could not even offset enough cost to make the items viable.

Looking at the quality of your designs ... I bet you are going to have a lot of fun with this new 3D-Printing technology when it finally gets advanced enough to create material strengths which can work with your designs.

Thank You for Photos!

WELL DONE!!

[Imabass]

If you were going to buy a printer today which one would you buy? What would you recommend for < $500?

I see some "used" ones for sale on craigslist. But with any new technology that quickly drops in price, the sellers are asking more than what the unit sells for as new.

[C-Bag]

I see some "used" ones for sale on craigslist. But with any new technology that quickly drops in price, the sellers are asking more than what the unit sells for as new.

I see this too. I have no idea if they are trying to scam or just not smart. Metaldesigner has mentioned we should wait till next year and I think it will take that long to get to know what is out there, what's going to happen to the next wave of innovation/cost drop and how to use a cad program well enough to feed the thing. I hate when I buy something and what would have been better all the sudden comes out for cheaper. I think his tip of taking a file over and trying to print something on the prospective printer is a good one too. But the universe has a way of making a monkey outta me. If a printer like his comes up cheap.........

[Christophe Mineau]

Thank you for the note


There is a somewhat new CAD program that is Free online to test out and learn that is basically the same as SolidWorks.

You would be able to get in and learn without having to pay any money to see how you like it
https://www.onshape.com/3d-cad?utm_c...0Page%20Clicks

Hi, great use of the 3D printer, even if this is a tool I don't like very much, but that's another story.
I personally have found lately Freecad which seems to be very promising in 3D with quite a large community to help, and which is an open source solution.
I started a little bit, but didn't practise much of it yet.
I still prefer my 2D Cad, because I very often use it for making templates, and so on.
But sooner or later, I will have to dig into that.

Great casting also, can you do the same with brass ?

Cheers
Christophe

[Frank S]

I have found that there will always be the newer bigger better most advanced widgets in the world just around the corner.
A lot of times I will buy something if it is on the real cheap knowing that it will be obsolete in a few months or weeks if I have a need for it at the time or if I want to learn how something works Maybe I will even find that I don't need the latest and the greatest or I might want for the hype of the new to wear off and the bugs to be worked out of the newest model before I buy one.
I might not always be able to afford the newest model either.
Like with what ever cell phones are called today I have not bought one of those things and do not care to because for me at least a phone is supposed to be able to call and receive calls beyond that I don't need much more. OH sure I sometimes find it bothersome not to be able to snap a picture and send it instantly but I've managed for many years just fine. besides my fingers don't work well on those touch screen things of any sort .
So if you think you need a 3d printer like right now to start learning the ropes of 3d printing then get one if you find a good quality one on the cheap, knowing that you will probably want to upgrade in a few months or a year. Why not enjoy learning how one functions before jumping into deep waters. After all I'll bet your first bicycle didn't have 24 speeds with razor edged tires capable of rolling along effortlessly at 40 MPH did it?

[C-Bag]

I totally agree 100% Frank. To be honest, until the projects MetalDesigner has come up with the 3D printer and in the current state and affordability was just a curiosity. And seeing the sometimes wildly varying reviews made me wary. From the stuff I was seeing it was more tinkerers than folks who had a real use or other skills that it might take to use or maintain the printer.

And like Imabass the used ones I've seen are not a deal. They probably bought them when they were twice the price they are now and are asking half of what they paid, but it's still as much as a new latest version. If something comes up that's a good printer and hasn't been mangled I now would consider it as it turns out I do have some things that a 3D printer would be good for.

But in those reviews I've gone through there are all kinds of horror stories about bad design, bad parts, no support or parts. Not being made of $$ I don't need another headache that could turn into a boat anchor I'm just glad we have somebody on here who has one, it works and seems to know about the field.