Split Point Drill sharpening

[madokie]

OHHHH,,,OHHHHHHHHHHHHH OHHHHH OHHHHH OHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! (channeling sam kinison ) oh how could u us the SIDE of grinding wheel!!!!!!!!!!! how do i get OSHA to come and pay u a visit !!!!!! and then your state version of OSHA !!!!!!! i have NEVER in my 41 years of machining experience seen anyone use the side of a grinding wheel for anything...way too dangerous, a wheel breakage at 3200 rpm or even 1750 can really tear u up !!!!! ok rant done,, i have always used the proper face of grinding wheel to sharpen drill bits,and grind a thinning of the web if needed when drilling by hand,,too..i will however try your way sometime, but all of the drill bits i have bought or used have always had the regular point and work just fine,,i would like to know how long your split point does hold up ,do a test,, drill more of that plate steel till dull,without cutting oil, and let us know,,

[Toolmaker51]

Grinding on the side of a wheel, agreed, can be risky. But the amount of pressure to point a drill this size isn't likely to fracture a sound wheel. It's more when grinding puts a groove in that surface initiating a weakened secondary periphery, and reacts to centrifugal force. Remember, side-wheeling isn't all that rare on reciprocating [surface] grinders, it's just better controlled alignment.

[bobneumann]

OHHHH,,,OHHHHHHHHHHHHH OHHHHH OHHHHH OHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! (channeling sam kinison ) oh how could u us the SIDE of grinding wheel!!!!!!!!!!! how do i get OSHA to come and pay u a visit !!!!!! and then your state version of OSHA !!!!!!! i have NEVER in my 41 years of machining experience seen anyone use the side of a grinding wheel for anything...way too dangerous, a wheel breakage at 3200 rpm or even 1750 can really tear u up !!!!! ok rant done,, i have always used the proper face of grinding wheel to sharpen drill bits,and grind a thinning of the web if needed when drilling by hand,,too..i will however try your way sometime, but all of the drill bits i have bought or used have always had the regular point and work just fine,,i would like to know how long your split point does hold up ,do a test,, drill more of that plate steel till dull,without cutting oil, and let us know,,

Ok. OK. OOOOKKAAAAAAYYYYY! You've converted me.

I hereby swear that I will never again admit to grinding on the side of my wheel on a regular basis. It didn't happen. Nothing to see here. These are not the Droids you're seeking. Return to your happy place, knowing you've saved me. 😉

[madokie]

yes i agree SOMEPEOPLE may use the side to grind on, but the real problem is some wheels (cheap asian)have a small runout on the side and u cant dress the side either...and bench grinding wheels are not made to grind on the side either..as are surface grinding wheels,,i have never seen a bench grinding wheel explode but i dont want to either, and if your working alone in your shop,,and something REALLY bad happens u might not survive it...working alone u MUST be more careful and not be in a hurry,,say bob u look to have a bunch of bench grinders, where are all those wheels from?????? CHINA ???? !!!!!!! another good reason NOT to grind on the side !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tonyfoale]

yes i agree SOMEPEOPLE may use the side to grind on, but the real problem is some wheels (cheap asian)have a small runout on the side and u cant dress the side either...and bench grinding wheels are not made to grind on the side either..as are surface grinding wheels,,i have never seen a bench grinding wheel explode but i dont want to either, and if your working alone in your shop,,and something REALLY bad happens u might not survive it...working alone u MUST be more careful and not be in a hurry,,say bob u look to have a bunch of bench grinders, where are all those wheels from?????? CHINA ???? !!!!!!! another good reason NOT to grind on the side !!!!!!!!!!!!!

You warn against grinding on the side but without giving any real explanation of why. You mention side runout but I have fixed that with either or both careful mounting and/or truing with a diamond. I have been sharpening tools on the sides for around 60 years and this is the first time that someone has told be not to.
You can buy bench grinders with rests designed for grinding on the side, are all the manufacturers and users of those as uninformed as I obviously am?

[Okapi]

I'm not totally in accordance with Tony's explanation, they are grinding wheels made as cups(or others for 45° use) for grinding on the lateral part, all makers of grinding wheels explain that you never use a wheel made for perpendicular use as a lateral use, you find it that on makers like Norton, I've only the french catalogue from Norton but you can found the same in english on the web easily.
They explain to never use on the side a wheel cup or another when the thickness is less than 10% of the diameter, then 30mm. for a 300mm. wheel etc…

[Toolmaker51]

Just as Tony and others describe, side-wheeling on bench grinders is not unheard of, and safely pursued by a sizeable group of workers. That manufacturers advise against it, has at least two faces. One is a wheels design intent, coupled with how its made. The other avoids litigious involvement with a careless public, and government agencies.

[tonyfoale]

I'm not totally in accordance with Tony's explanation, ....

I didn't give any explanation, I asked a question which has not been answered yet.
WHY should I break the habit of a lifetime and stop tool sharpening on the side of flat wheels?
As advised I looked on Norton's site but the only relevant text that I could find was a list of DOs and DON'Ts. The DON'Ts said avoid the side but without explanation.
I have never been very good accepting DOs and DON'Ts as plain statements, but I will always consider an explanation. When someone tells me not to do something I expect that they will know WHY and be able to explain it to me. So far in this case the WHY is lacking.

[olderdan]

Grinding with the side of the wheel is accepted practice in machine shops on both surface and cyl machines. The wheels are usually backed of by hand to leave a ragged edge to prevent burning of the material. The flywheel assy shown is an example where the edges have a cross hatched finish, this was done with a 12 x 1 inch wheel.
These wheels are available already dished for this purpose.
For bench grinders the only way to get a flat face instead of a concave one is to use the side of a diamond trued wheel with common sense pressure, same goes for any freehand use. Any protection is a personal choice unless instructing beginners, probably best to agree to disagree on this subject.

[Okapi]

We are cutting hairs in four to translate from french, excuse-me tony if i use explanation in place of writing or similar.
I'm always working with the idea to transmit goods infos to the apprentice and to use safely the tools etc…, the question on "why" can be easily found on every book for mechanical apprentice when it was authorised to use some tools before CNC, as I've not read the more recent edition, I suppose they explain simply that if you have your piece entrained by the wheel in the protection carter it's about 90% more chances to see the wheel broken that on the good side.
If it's not necessary to use specific wheels, why making so many cup wheels(and a lot of others forms) witch are a lot more comfortable and with a lot more efficiency than plain ones ?
After that, if you want to make the same manner you use the tool since decades, it's your business, but they can be others ways to arrive at the result needed more safely.