Poor mans lathe DRO's

[mklotz]

Marv, I notice your preferred increment is 0.105" each time. On a typical 40 thread mic that would be 4.2 threads. Anything special about 4.2 threads every time?

As the quote says, it's done so the spindle seats at different rotary orientations each time. The last thing one would want is an increment (such as an integer multiple of 1/40 = 0.025) so the spindle always seats at the same orientation.

[Saltfever]

Got it . . . non-repeating "orientation" is the important ingredient. Thanks

[Toolmaker51]

Toolmaker51,
I have a 6" Mitutoyo model 505-637 dial indicator I bought in 1970 and it has worked very well and accurately until about three years ago. I check my dial, electronic and 1" and 2" mics every six months with a series of gage blocks to check for wear and for peace of mind. That is when I discovered the Mitutoyo dial indicator was measuring 0.0015" too large between 0.450" and 0.550". I think the precision rack used for measurement must be more worn in this range but it took many years before it made any difference. Three years ago, I replaced the dial indicator with a Mitutoyo 6" Absolute AOS Digimatic model 500-170-30 electronic caliper. It works very well, does not eat batteries, knows how to maintain zero without checking at zero, turns off automatically when put back in the toolbox and other than the back of the plastic display case showing signs of wearing from sliding on the work bench when it is picked up, I have no complaints.
The cost of your time, reputation and materials can be easily lost when not using quality measurement tools so I think it is worthwhile paying more for precision measurement instruments you will keep for a lifetime and you will trust. The worst thing is doing your machining by the book and discovering your craftsmanship was compromised by your measuring instrument.

Thanks for listening,
Paul Jones

I'm always listening, especially here at HMT. In no way could an individual amass a fraction of this spectrum in reasoning, experience, resources, and even failures. The knowledge/ open exchange of plain ideas is beneficial and entertaining. One has no clue timewise when a mere seed becomes a solution.
Physical quality [vice theoretical or administrative manipulation] one my favorite goals. My assemblage of instruments is kind of varied, so I utilize that which suits a task. Virtually, but not all were bought used; micrometers, calipers, gauge blocks, cylinder squares, calibration pyramids, zillions of indicators...each hand selected. Best feature of TAS? Tax deductible! Most are US, remaining 20% or so European & Japanese with full confidence in each one. Not one single item subject to calibration is or will be Chinese. While government sold us out of full manufacturing, they DID NOT buy my ability to produce.

In reference to micrometers, gauge blocks, and spindle orientation; varying that is not only a check of the threads but parallelism of the spindle to anvil. Calibration labs check with optical flats; sized to cause 4 spindle orientations. That can be corrected, done in a little dedicated lap. One setup would remind you of a disc brake lathe, another is a micrometer lapping plate. Either can accomplish flat and parallel less than twenty millionth of an inch (0.000020”) [0.5 micrometers]. Marv's description amplifies that; flat is meaningless without parallel. Also why some calibration standards are flat ended but surfaces measured [workpieces] are most often curved.
Calipers are lapped in the same manner, once the gib has been adjusted per that mentioned earlier. A commercially made tool of different measurement intervals is commonly used to verify calibration of vernier, dial, and digital models for inside and outside jaws. I don't believe depth rods and step features are beyond having a positive zero.

[mwmansfield]

I'm sure there are poorly made batteries but so far I haven't been able to single out a manufacturer. I've had several flashlights ruined by leaking Duracells as well as other name brands of batteries. I've never had a leaking Japanese battery but that might be coincidental.

I have dozens of devices that use "coin" batteries (e.g. CR2016, CR2032) and I never have had a leaker. Is it the chemistry or the case construction that makes these so device-friendly?

Duracell changed to an off shore manufacturer and the batteries were changed and the change is that the can that the battery is assembled in is reversed. Instead of the negative being the bottom of the can and case of the battery, they have made the positive the bottom of the can and put a seal and negative end cap on the battery. There are several brands that went to this method of manufacturing and it don't work very well at all as most leak, even brand new in the packaging! I have went through everything I have Duracell batteries in and almost all were leaking (I live at 6500 ft above sea level). The AAA and AA seem to be the worst for me but that was the most sizes I use. The date codes make no difference as all Duracell batteries are now made this way and most all will leak, especially if any pressure builds up in the cell due to altitude or anything that causes a pressure to develope in the cell.
There are some great technical articles that can be found by Googling defective leaking batteries or such. Googling leaking Duracell batteries will probably bring up what you are looking for and will explain better what the exact problem is. Hope this helps and hope you don't have any Duracell batteries in any of your expensive equipment. If you do, you better find another brand that has the positive end of the battery sealed rather than the seal on the negative end. I have thrown away several hundred dollars worth of batteries and some equipment that had the electrolyte leaked out and had got under the IC's on the citcuit boards and caused unrepairable damage to the instrument.
Duracell is happy to replace the batteries with the exact same type and some may be leaking when you receive the replacements.
Good luck with getting Duracell to replace any equipment that their leaking batteries have damaged or destroyed.
I purchased a set of Duracell flashlights of the aluminum MAG type that were LED and very bright and had a flashing mode on them to scare someone away supposedly(?). I bought these at one of the large box stores that requires a yearly membership. One used D cells, one used C cells. Of the two sets of these flashlights I purchased, all but one would not work, I opened them up and all had leaking Duracell batteries in them, 1 I couldn't even get working as it had eat all the tracks from the circuit board that had a IC, few other components and the large LED array. The aluminum tubes were etched from the leaking batteries which was sealed to the outside air supposedly as they were supposed to be waterproof. I took back the set that I couldn't even get working and got my money back. They made a remark that they had almost all returned that had been sold.

[Wheels17]

I am not angry, only disappointed in myself for being brand-phobic and hanging on too long. I have lost $$thousands in equipment to Duracell. The warrantee is not! All you can get is the cost of the batteries. Just one, of many examples; how about $3.00 for a $1,200 aviation GPS . . . I could go on. I post here only because I value you and this site too much to not pass on a warning. I will not bring up the issue again.

Notice the expiration date is irrelevant! 2017, 2023 all go bad!

I have noticed the same thing with Duracell. I have had at least 10 Duracell batteries leak in the last couple of years. I think they have some sort of manufacturing problem. They are either unaware of the problem or will not acknowledge it. I'm starting to move to other batteries. I'm trying the Amazon Basics for now, but in my first test (computer mouse) they don't seem to have the life of the Duracells. More testing needed.

[metric_taper]

I am not angry, only disappointed in myself for being brand-phobic and hanging on too long. I have lost $$thousands in equipment to Duracell. The warrantee is not! All you can get is the cost of the batteries. Just one, of many examples; how about $3.00 for a $1,200 aviation GPS . . . I could go on. I post here only because I value you and this site too much to not pass on a warning. I will not bring up the issue again.

Notice the expiration date is irrelevant! 2017, 2023 all go bad!

I found a similar problem with a DRO, but compounded was the Mitutoyo was darn hard to change the batteries in, as considerable disassembly was required to access them. So my fix was to install and external battery pack. I just happened to find D size battery holder at a Radio Shack (when they still had electronic components). I installed a power connector on the case of the DRO display and then used a mating connector to inject the external battery power.



I used double sticky foam tape, but the weight of the batteries resulted in the zip tie fix. The rear view shows 2 screws that have to be removed to take the display head off the mount tray, then I believe the bottom is removed to access the internal batteries. I also found the life of the AA to be short in this unit.

[Frank S]

There seems to be more of a reason for the old Batteries not included slogan now than ever.
I was hoping when the old Rayovac batteries disappeared that the leakage issue was put to rest.
.

[Jon]

I didn't realize the Duracell drama waters ran so deep. To be fair, most large companies are tangled in plenty of litigation, but there are two interesting Duracell class actions. One was over misleading statements surrounding superior battery life, and was settled in 2014 for $50 million:

In Joshua Poertner v. The Gillette Company and The Procter & Gamble Company, plaintiffs alleged that the Defendants participated in misleading and deceptive advertising and marketing of Duracell Ultra Batteries. Plaintiffs further claim that their advertising statements including the statements “Up to 30% Longer in Toys* *vs. Ultra Digital” and “Our Longest Lasting,” mislead consumers into purchasing the Duracell Ultra Batteries.

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...on-settlement/


And another lawsuit, explicitly over the leaking issue, was dismissed in 2016:

A federal judge threw out a lawsuit accusing Procter & Gamble Co (PG.N) of misleading consumers by guaranteeing that Duracell batteries would not fail for 10 years, when in fact the batteries might leak when used or stored normally.

In a decision late Tuesday night, U.S. District Judge Lucy Koh in San Jose, California, rejected claims in the proposed class-action lawsuit that P&G and its Gillette unit defrauded consumers in ads and packaging for Coppertop batteries containing "Duralock Power Preserve" technology.

Koh said reasonable consumers would understand that P&G's representation that the batteries were "guaranteed for 10 years in storage" was a warranty to repair, replace or refund batteries that failed within that timeframe, and not a promise that the batteries "have no potential to leak."

Lawsuit over Duracell batteries guarantee is thrown out | Reuters

Interestingly, the suit that settled for $50 million was the subject of considerable debate over the disproportionate amount of the settlement given to the attorneys (94%), vs. the amount offered to affected consumers - up to a whopping $12 cash if you kept the proof of purchase for your batteries: Supreme Court petition in Duracell class action spotlights fee abuses | Fortune.com.

[bobs409]

Just a heads up for anyone going this route, I didn't realize it at the time but some H.F. calipers only go up to hundredths! The ones pictures are, you guessed it, those kind! They are the ones made of graphite. I got those for ease of drilling. Might as well just tape a yard stick on! Luckily they were very cheap so not much loss. So if your doing this mod, get the metal ones that measure in thousandths.

Because of this change, I had to modify the way they attach in the pic as trying to drill though those steel calipers is impossible. I think they are made of titanium!?!

Also it seems that the new ones all turn on with any movement which is annoying as you don't always need a DRO. I am going to be adding some micro slide switches to mine to shut them off when not needed.

[tonyfoale]

Several people have mentioned the fact that short battery life is because the calipers and other measuring devices don't turn off when switched off. Yet someone mentioned that their Mitutoyo didn't eat batteries.
There is a fundamental difference in these calipers that explains this.
Absolute measuring tools like the Mitutoyo Digimatic always know where they are, you can replace the battery and it will come back to life with the original measurement. The cheap chinese versions are usually incremental and zero is where you last pressed the zero button. If you remove the battery and replace it you lose the setting and will have to manually reset it. So the only way to retain the settings when you switch it back on is for it to never have been switched off in the first place. So they just dim the screen. This is easily confirmed if you attach a logic analyser to the clock and data pins of the data port. The device will continue to output the measurement data whether you think it is switched on or off. The display actually draws very little extra current so the only point in having an on/off switch is to mislead the user into thinking that he is saving the battery.
So to summarise, absolute calipers switch off when you think they do and so have good battery life, assuming that you switch them off when not in use, although some do that after a time out. Incremental calipers do NOT switch off when you expect and consequently eat batteries.
A fix for short battery life is to bring a couple of wires out from either the battery compartment or the data port and attach them to a triple or double "A" battery riding piggy back on the housing. Not very tidy but functional. If a trailing lead is not a hindrance then a remote battery or 1.5v wall wort ( 3v for some devices) is an option. For example a digital dial gauge on a comparator stand.