Farmers jailbreaking John Deere tractors to repair them - video

[Jon]

Looks like John Deere is back in the hot seat for breaking a promise to make tractor repair tools and software available to the public.

Article in Vice: https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7m8...repair-it-lied

Full report is here: https://uspirg.org/sites/pirg/files/...dlights_V3.pdf

[NortonDommi]

I think that ALL manufactures should be forced to upload ALL workshop manuals to the interweb. Too often dealers retain workshop manuals that should be included with machinery, often they will refuse to identify their suppliers when an issue arises that they are not prepared to address or when they have switched to another supplier leaving previous customers with no recourse to information/parts. Many dealers of all kinds of machinery will also refuse to even order workshop manuals/parts manuals or they will demand exorbitant prices for such items.
Some manufactures even prosecute anyone who uploads manuals for their product. This can be avoided if you are aware before purchase but is still of no use to small repair services without factory affiliation.

[TrickieDickie]

Much of today's vehicles we all drive are heavily dependent upon multiple computers which require proper diagnosis. I have a 10 year old GMC that has been very reliable and a 56 F100 that I can completely take care of. I dread the day I have to purchase a later model vehicle.

[Hoosiersmoker]

Our company purchased a $2.5 million dollar printing press (nearly 15 years ago). I immediately went looking for the manuals to set up the PMs. I contacted the mfg and was told the manuals (15 of them) would cost us and additional $5000 in print or $2000 digital. After a very convincing discussion with one of their "higher-ups" we decided that everyone in our industry didn't have to know they'd tried to bilk that extra money out of us for something that should have come with the press! They threw in the digital copy "for free"

[jdurand]

Much of today's vehicles we all drive are heavily dependent upon multiple computers which require proper diagnosis. I have a 10 year old GMC that has been very reliable and a 56 F100 that I can completely take care of. I dread the day I have to purchase a later model vehicle.

One of the things I look forward to is our new car will be a Lada. Less of the high-tech everything that Western cars. Still has some, can even order it with built-in cellular data and phone. I won't be getting that model, don't need BT, WiFi, or iThing.

[metric_taper]

In my opinion, the only real improvement to the 4 cycle gas engine was electronic points.
I had a 1987 Chevy Sprint with a natural aspirating carburetor, it got over 57MPG (3cyl 1 liter). It did have electronic points. The next model was a 1998 Chevy Metro with throttle body fuel injection. Fuel economy was 40MPG (and CA emission compliance). They did add a bit of steel weight to improve crash safety.
I understand that on larger V8 engines used on trucks there was an improvement of fuel economy with electronic controls.

[NortonDommi]

100% with you on electronic distributors or add on electronic switching. 2nd would be variable fuel pressure regulators ala Cagill. I have seen some amazing results with these including some I didn't believe until shown proof. One such was I fitted one to a taxi whose owner I knew as a means to save him a few bucks while he saved for an LPG conversion,(which I had talked him into),he came back a month later with fuel saving percentages that I couldn't accept until he showed me his log book. Turns out that during Winter he sat around waiting for fares with the engine idling and most of his Winter driving was inner city. These are for carburettored engines only with no computers stuffing up tuning.

[Jon]

John Deere finally backed down on this issue. Looks like the American Farm Bureau Federation put enough pressure on them that they're trying to avoid any Right to Repair legislation. They issued a Memorandum of Understanding here: https://www.fb.org/files/AFBF_John_Deere_MOU.pdf

There's enough flexibility in there that John Deere can still wiggle out of some requirements to let farmers repair their equipment, but issuing this memorandum is a decent indication that John Deere recognizes that preventing farmers from repairing their tractors is not a smart hill to die on.



More: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64206913

[metric_taper]

So is John Deere going to provide all the specifications for the serial OBD communication protocol they have? Pretty much requires that to repair most of their engine driven equipment. I see the document allows farmers access, but at what cost for manuals and diagnostic equipment. I don't think farmers won anything here.
Still need legislation for all manufactures to publish any proprietary diagnostic access, so 3rd parties can design the equipment.

On a slightly different note, The Russian invasion of Ukraine, they stole John Deere farm equipment, This equipment was at dealerships, John Deere was able to disable the equipment as it's somehow internet connect with what I would guess is cell phone enabled.

[CharlesWaugh]

The key provision is A.5, as follows:

5. This MOU shall not be interpreted or construed to require a Manufacturer to: a) divulge trade secrets, proprietary or confidential information; b) allow owners or Independent Repair Facilities to override safety features or emissions controls or to adjust Agricultural Equipment power levels; or, c) violate any federal, state, or local laws or regulations.

Yeah, the DMCA is still in effect, so they can hide behind it all they want.

See the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) here:
https://www.fb.org/files/AFBF_John_Deere_MOU.pdf