# Tool Talk > Machines >  High-quality black-and-white photographs of large old machines and tools

## Jon

Large black-and-white photographs of old machines are some of the most popular posts in the work crews thread, so I figured they merited their own thread.

Specifically, large high-quality images that we can enlarge, examine, print, frame, etc. Click on an image for the fullsize version, then you usually click on it _again_ in your browser to see it at its maximum size.

The Library of Congress website is a good place to search for these. For a specific image, you can check the download options (in the lower-left corner of the photo frame) to see if there's a large filesize photo available for download.

A good start is the 50,000 ton Wyman-Gordon press, constructed in 1955. Grafton, Massachusetts.

East.
Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg



West.
Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg



Southwest.
Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg



More: Wyman-Gordon 50,000-Ton Forging Press dedicated as a National Historic Mechanical Engineering Landmark by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers

----------

bimmer1980 (Oct 15, 2018),

boxofrogs (Feb 8, 2021),

Bullet500 (Aug 2, 2020),

charles scozzari (Nov 2, 2022),

durrelltn (Aug 17, 2022),

greyhoundollie (Oct 9, 2018),

Midwestern640 (Sep 8, 2019),

Paul Jones (Nov 9, 2018),

PJs (Oct 14, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 8, 2018),

volodar (Jun 1, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

Thanks Jon I may have to buy spare ink for my HP design-jet 500 PS and a roll of 42" photo quality paper dig out my miter saw make some frames. Know any one with a surplus supply of old very large single pane windows I have a few 6 ft tempered glass ones double glazed but those things are next to impossible to cut without an oven to anneal them.

----------


## GeoffN

I am amazed by the size of this machinery. What types of products would have been made?

----------


## Jon

> I am amazed by the size of this machinery. What types of products would have been made?



At the time of construction, this press (and a similar 50,000 ton forge press) were the largest tools ever created.

The presses did (and still do) make lots of stuff, most notably airplane parts.

Basically: per the Treaty of Versailles, which ended WWI in 1919, Germany agreed to surrender some its most valuable iron-producing regions that made steel. You can't really wage a war (let alone a World War) without excellent metalworking, especially in that era. Lacking steel, Germany figured out how to form magnesium, which was reasonably naturally abundant, although it had previously not been practical to form because magnesium is very fickle (prone to cracking, brittleness, etc.). Allied forces noticed these advanced magnesium forgings in downed Axis airplanes. When Allied forces overran Germany, they saw the enormous forge presses that the Germans had built. When US and Soviet forces found these presses (and blueprints for more of them), they dismantled them and shipped them home. The Soviets got the largest press to survive the war (33,000 tons), as well as plans for a 55,000 ton press.

After WWII, relations between the Soviets and the Americans turned cold. America, realizing that the Soviet invading forces got the largest press AND plans for an even larger one, decided to invest in 10 similar enormous presses - of which I believe 2 are still in operation today. This was the Heavy Press Program: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Press_Program

Under the Heavy Press Program, ten presses were built: six extrusion presses, and four forging presses. And of those four forging presses, two were 35,000 ton machines, and two broke the record for the world's largest machine. They were 50,000 ton press forges: the Alcoa Press and the Wyman-Gordon Press, pictured above.

----------

bimmer1980 (Oct 15, 2018),

boxofrogs (Feb 8, 2021),

cmarlow (Jan 12, 2019),

greyhoundollie (Oct 11, 2018),

Paul Jones (Nov 9, 2018),

PJs (Oct 14, 2018),

volodar (Jun 1, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

I don't care I still want one to sit in my front yard and crack walnuts with it.

----------

Hemi (Oct 9, 2018)

----------


## 12bolts

When I did my apprenticeship, the machine shop had, (amongst many other lathes) a quite large, czech made lathe, (I forget the name) that had been gifted to the Australian government after WW II, by the Germans as part payment for the war. It was a great machine, that was lovingly tended to by the shop foreman, and woe betide any smart young apprentice who didnt seek his express permission 1st before even cranking the saddle back to fit some stock in the chuck. If he didnt believe you were suitably experienced and adept already on the smaller lathes then you wouldnt even get a look in.

Cheers Phil

----------

boxofrogs (Feb 8, 2021),

greyhoundollie (Oct 11, 2018),

Paul Jones (Nov 9, 2018),

PJs (Oct 14, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 9, 2018),

volodar (Jun 1, 2019)

----------


## Jon

This guy did an excellent job making this video covering the Heavy Press Program. He's got a great YT channel, but this one really stands out. 12:47 video:




Anyway, here's a Mesta roller leveler. From the Library of Congress:




> FRONTAL VIEW OF THE MESTA ROLLER LEVELLER IN HARVEY SHOP. - U.S. Steel Homestead Works, Harvey Shop, Along Monongahela River, Homestead, Allegheny County, PA



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg



FYI, I generally post 800px images for immediate viewing, and then the "fullsize" images I post are the largest versions I can find, that I then convert to jpegs. If you want the highest-quality image, for offline reproduction, you can also search at the Library of Congress website. Some of these images are enormous high-quality 50MB+ tiff files.

----------

bimmer1980 (Oct 15, 2018),

charles scozzari (Nov 2, 2022),

high-side (Oct 14, 2018),

KustomsbyKent (Oct 9, 2018),

PJs (Oct 14, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 9, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 11, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

That is an impressive video, I guess that means I can't get one for my front yard. Maybe I can call my congressman and see if He can get Congress to authorize the building of the 200,000 ton press in my back yard Just in case they ever need it.
If a nut that holds the Mseta 50 together weighs 55 tons how much does the box end wrench that tightens it weigh?

----------

charles scozzari (Nov 2, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Each of these beautiful giants is accompanied by numerous specially-built tools for construction, transport, assembly, maintenance, operation, etc.

Again from the Library of Congress:




> 75-TON CAPACITY MANIPULATOR FOR PRESS No. 2. - U.S. Steel Homestead Works, Press Shop No. 2, Along Monongahela River, Homestead, Allegheny County, PA



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg





Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

charles scozzari (Nov 2, 2022),

PJs (Oct 14, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 11, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

Everything starts with an idea. Someone wakes up thinking I'm going to build a 50,000 ton press. His first problem is there are no furnaces or cauldrons large enough to melt the iron for the castings there are no forging hammers large enough to forge the parts no lathe exists to machine the shafts nuts bolts pulleys gears ETC. No materials handling equipment to assist in the movement of these large items. The only way these behemoths can become is smaller equipment has to be used to make ever increasingly larger equipment until one day 60 to 90 years later we get to enjoy looking at a black and white picture of a mechanical wonder of the world which has been in operation since before many of us were even born.
It would be interesting to watch one of these builds in reverse all the way back to its beginning then to see how many times machines had to grow from the conception of the industrial revolution watching each machine devolve until we were all the way back to the hammering of the first sponge of molten iron

----------

charles scozzari (Nov 2, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (May 3, 2019)

----------


## sossol

Is that Waldo's grandfather?

----------


## Frank S

> Is that Waldo's grandfather?



But at least it wasn't the unpleasant profession of Johnathan Hog.

----------


## CharlesWaugh

My son is a millwright.
He was working in a steel tube mill - this is the take-up winder that rolls up the slit rolls after they've been slit to width (you can see various widths of them in the background of one of the shots.)

"]
"]
"]

Hmmm... I wanted those to link out to these BIG images:

http://www.charleswaugh.com/mill2.jpg
http://www.charleswaugh.com/mill1.jpg
http://www.charleswaugh.com/mill3.jpg
http://www.charleswaugh.com/mill4.jpg


Cheers!

----------

allenz (May 3, 2020),

PJs (Oct 14, 2018)

----------


## PJs

That guy (Machine Thinking) _is_ quite good and informative in his presentation videos. He is especially good and blending old reels with quality narration. The Pictures you have brought forward Jon are just as telling on the enormity and impact these machines have had on humankind. Such High Quality photos and well preserved scans. Thanks Very Much for following the leads from the previous threads and postings on presses.

So many thoughts and questions are provoked for me, like the giant accumulators @4500psi and what kind of vessel material, welding and QA did they go through to last in use for 60 years, to the holding of tolerance on the giant pistons to keep 4500psi from slicing something in half in a leak...to who shot the pictures and what kind of camera and lenses did they use...and the 50-100 draftsmen (-persons [PC]) working at 1:100/0 scale for probably 5,000 drawings and design changes, plus the blueprint operators with the ammonia machines. And of course the countless Engineers of all trades that designed them, and their untold stories of trials, tribulation and triumph, built prototypes and tested them. And many a sleepless nights of many a worker, engineer, foreman, VP, CEO on a project of these magnitudes being pressed (pun @¿~) to get it done on time and of course on budget!

At some level these could be considered as additional wonders of the world imho.

PJ

And I forgot all about all the substations built to run a plant of this size with 1500hp motors...and all those people...then the water, plumbing, and building crew for the building(s) and a cafeteria...and then some.

----------

volodar (Oct 27, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Agreed on Machine Thinking's work. BTW, he just registered on the forum and posted another excellent video: World's Oldest Micrometer - 1776! Who made this thing??

----------

PJs (Oct 14, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Library of Congress once again:




> STEAM HAMMER, VIEW IS EAST. - East Broad Top Railroad & Coal Company, Blacksmith Shop, State Route 994, West of U.S. Route 522, Rockhill Furnace, Huntingdon County, PA
> 
> Significance: The Blacksmith Shop, along with the Machine Shop and Foundry, was one of the three primary metalworking facilities at the East Broad Top Shop complex. Built prior to 1882, and enlarged after a fire in 1908, the wood-frame, board-and-batten sided Blacksmith shop was equipped for both general and specialized metal forming tasks. Major blacksmithing equipment includes three coal-fired forges, a massive 3,300 lb. steam-powered forging hammer, a smaller belt-driven hammer, and a reciprocating metal saw. Two areas of the Blacksmith Shop were devoted to specific processes and utilized specialized equipment. Locomotive boiler flues were cleaned, swoged, and rewelded using an oil-fired forge and pneumatic flue swager, and locomotive elliptic spring clusters were repaired and tempered by the EBT blacksmiths. Some occasional light smithing has been performed since the EBT ceased operation in 1956, and some minor stabilization of the structure has been done, otherwise, the Blacksmith Shop remains in essentially original condition.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Oct 21, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 23, 2018)

----------


## CharlesWaugh

Here is a wikipedia page with an engineering-type drawing of that hammer (there is a link to a very large file of the drawing)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...et_6_of_6).png

----------

Jon (Oct 20, 2018),

PJs (Oct 21, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Electric locomotive under construction. Note the Buchli drive. Date unknown. Captioned as:




> Schweizerische Lokomotiv- und Maschinenfabrik (SLM Winterthur) - a new electric locomotive under construction
> A prototype Swiss-built SLM locomotive, which was finally sold to (or especially built for) France. French locomotive builders, especially in Graffenstaden, have often cooperated with SLM in the design and construction of new and experimental electric locomotives.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Oct 29, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 26, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

Judging by the bosses cast in the large traction wheels they might have been originally cast for a steam locomotive. I;m figuring that the smaller wheels with the brakes on them were for emergency use or for parking Relying on electromotive braking whit the big wheels by reversing the current.

----------


## PJs

Stunning detail in the hi-res with quite excellent contrast levels. Was able to count 18 layers of the leaf springs and a whole lot of big rivets...and he details of the runner car are even better. Interesting double acting cylinder for brakes but Not a Westinghouse brake system...similar cantilever but the leading levers are the same size as the trailing ones.

----------


## Jon

> Sack press (2000 ton) where tack head is shaped - Wyman-Gordon Company, Grafton Plant, 2000 Ton Press, 244 Worcester Street, Grafton, Worcester County, MA



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Oct 30, 2018),

rossbotics (Nov 20, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 30, 2018)

----------


## PJs

Looks like Jack the Flash is buzzing through the room building giant rivets. Beauty of a forge beast!

----------


## Jon

Hercules shipyard crane. Boston, Massachusetts. 1930.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...0_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Nov 9, 2018),

rossbotics (Nov 20, 2018),

Seedtick (Nov 9, 2018)

----------


## PJs

That is a big fella! The mass of the base is...Geez, I dunno...massive I guess...no words. 

This pic gives it some scale. 

https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/...alth:5h73s750z

Wonder if this was an inspiration for George Lucas and Star Wars.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------

mwmkravchenko (Nov 9, 2018),

volodar (Nov 11, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

> That is a big fella! The mass of the base is...Geez, I dunno...massive I guess...no words. 
> 
> This pic gives it some scale. 
> 
> https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/...alth:5h73s750z
> 
> Wonder if this was an inspiration for George Lucas and Star Wars.



I can see the resemblance

----------

MeJasonT (Nov 10, 2018),

mwmkravchenko (Nov 9, 2018)

----------


## MeJasonT

They have come along way, I worked with Smit on a heavy lift project. There crane was equally impressive. called Hercules. It not the one in this link but you get the idea.

----------

Frank S (Nov 10, 2018),

PJs (Nov 10, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (May 3, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

> They have come along way, I worked with Smit on a heavy lift project. There crane was equally impressive. called Hercules. It not the one in this link but you get the idea.



Interesting salvage video You could cut the planet in half with that cut wire if it were long enough

----------

MeJasonT (Nov 10, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Tide-Predicting Machine No. 2, aka "Old Brass Brains", an analog computer used to predict tides for the U.S. Coast and Geodetic Survey from 1910 until 1965.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

MeJasonT (Nov 10, 2018),

PJs (Nov 10, 2018),

rossbotics (Nov 20, 2018),

Seedtick (Nov 10, 2018)

----------


## mklotz

Color picture and a bit more background...

https://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/...nalog-computer

When most of us think of analog computers we tend to picture racks of op-amps and giant plug boards for programming but simple mechanical computers can quickly solve problems that tax algorithm writers.

I recommend you read this article from the _Scientific American_ Computer Recreations column for some examples of really clever analog computers. My favorite is the refinery locater computer made with string, weights, a board and a washer.

http://www.softouch.on.ca/kb/data/Scan-130202-0003.pdf

----------

MeJasonT (Nov 10, 2018),

volodar (Nov 11, 2018)

----------


## MeJasonT

I came across a rotary cam controller that was controlling the timing/operation of a food factory packing machine, the machine had a computer but its mechanical/pneumatic functions all came off this cam device. To be honest it was more reliable than the PC, just a shaft with discs on it which contained slots in specific places.


The second picture is from a telephone exchange.

----------

PJs (Nov 11, 2018)

----------


## MeJasonT

You might have Microsoft but they wouldn't be anywhere without good old British ingenuity, We got Babbage and the colossus for you.


Its all Greek to me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism 

perhaps we got the idea somewhere.

I know you guys nicked an Enigma from the Germans but I don't know where ours at Bletchly came from. (obviously the Germans)

----------


## MeJasonT

I love the opening Phrase from Tide-Predicting Machine No. 2 IEEE website,

Scientists and engineers may benefit from a long-⁠abandoned approach to computing - yep get rid of narcissistic nerds. Cogs and gears that's what i'm talking about - All you need in a power cut is a small child and an exercise bike, that's resilience for you.

----------


## MeJasonT

Thank you, to all those who have served, are serving and remember those who have fallen.

----------

PJs (Nov 11, 2018),

Scotsman Hosie (Nov 15, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 14, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Construction of the wind tunnel at the Ames Research Center. July, 1943.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

Clockguy (Nov 13, 2018),

MeJasonT (Nov 14, 2018),

PJs (Nov 18, 2018),

rossbotics (Nov 20, 2018),

Seedtick (Nov 12, 2018)

----------


## Clockguy

Photo may have been taken on a day off work, I could only find one workman, far left on the ground level, and an older [for 1943 photo] pickup truck also on ground level. The quality of the photo is rather clear since, if you click on the "Full size image" link and then click on the image itself, it will bring up a closeup image which really shows details rather clearly. There is a crane hook hanging just off the ground near the center and about 2/3 of the way down which you cannot see in the original photo but is shown clearly in the extreme closeup. Amazing technology for a girder construction of such massive dimensions and built during the wartime era.

----------

PJs (Nov 18, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

Clockguy if you will follow along on the left side past the workman you will see a few other workers much further back

----------

MeJasonT (Nov 14, 2018)

----------


## wizard69

> Clockguy if you will follow along on the left side past the workman you will see a few other workers much further back



In the trench!

Im on my cell and the amount of detail is impressive. Im guessing a professional photographer.

----------

MeJasonT (Nov 14, 2018)

----------


## MeJasonT

A really good example of a clear safe work area with non of that health and safety rubbish to fall over and get tangled up in.

When they ban plastic are we going to get back to good old manufacturing and assembly. Not that that applies here.
when you look at old PCs like IBM and ICL machines, built of metal and built to last, then the advent of the personal computer where we saw the first Apple, Commodore and Amstrad which were these space like futuristic plastic things. Its surprising how quick technology can change - in January we had Plastic shanked ear buds and by July the plastic had gone. Shame the shops didn't offer an alternative here in the UK with carrier bags, its plastic bag + a 5p tax or nothing. I miss old stuff, at least it was fixable.

I wonder how many motorway bridges will outlive Brunels bridges.

----------


## Jon

Weldment assembly floor. Philadelphia Naval Base. From the Library of Congress.




> View southeast of weldment assembly floor in structures shop, building 57; the floor is fabricated of cast iron and features a grillwork of 1 1/2 square holes which are used as sockets for gripping positioning or lock down pins; a lock down pin is shown left and below the center of the photograph; the vertical section of the pin is placed into a hole in the cast steel floor while the angles section of the pin rests on the piece under construction; the pin is hammered into the hole and spring tension in the pin holds the work piece in position. - Naval Base Philadelphia-Philadelphia Naval Shipyard, Structure Shop, League Island, Philadelphia, Philadelphia County, PA



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h..._fullsize1.jpg





And another.




> Overall interior view of structures shop (11 shop) located on west side of building 57 - looking north; the south end of the structures shop was devoted to welding heavy plate foundations and ship components; the floor is fabricated of case steel and features a grillwork of 1 1/2 fabricated holes which are used as sockets for gripping position pins. - Naval Base Philadelphia-Philadelphia Naval Shipyard, Structure Shop, League Island, Philadelphia, Philadelphia County, PA



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h..._fullsize2.jpg

----------

MeJasonT (Nov 15, 2018),

PJs (Nov 18, 2018),

rossbotics (Nov 20, 2018),

Seedtick (Nov 14, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 14, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Those appear identical to 'Acorn' weld platens. That size run about $3-4,000, USED. No less than 60 are in view, ~$100,000, but a mere fraction of those installed. I've chased them before; to no avail :-(. No luckier snagging a pair of floor plates instead. 
Floor plates, essentially are large machine tables; tee-slotted, some are drilled/ tapped, some have both.

----------

PJs (Nov 18, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Attachment 26285
> 
> Thank you, to all those who have served, are serving and remember those who have fallen.



Thank You, MeJasonT.

Immediate family...Father, Lieutenant USAAC/USAF WWII. Pilot trainer, in Waco TX, and Santa Ana, CA. He says "more hours in tailspins than many pilots have straight & level". Enlisted at outset of WWII, as a photographer. His abilities were recognized and urged to apply for commission.
Mother Staff Sergeant , USWMC. Photographer/ and Darkroom OIC, Cherry Point NC. She didn't recall how many shots taken; but lots of portraits, historical and classified documentation. Joked about toting 4x5 Speed Graphic around, [almost bigger than her], carried gear like lens boards in her jeep. 
Myself, Quartermaster 1C. Likely first Airedale [aviation oriented designations], probably only one carrying helmsman card for any aircraft carrier. Did a little machining when they started recording our civilian employment; and priority work occurred with shipyard labor unavailable. Had all sort of ancillary tasks, enjoyed instructing most. Navigation, seamanship, small arms, and indoctrination of new petty officers.

----------

MeJasonT (Nov 28, 2018),

PJs (Nov 18, 2018)

----------


## Jon

One of the great things about the Heavy Press Program - besides the presses! - and the "Heavy" part - and the fact that it was an entire "Program" of multiple presses - was all of the accompanying tools. The world's largest machines also needed the world's largest loaders and world's largest manipulators and world's largest mandrels and world's largest tongs, etc., etc., etc. There were probably thousands of "world's largest" industrial records set in those factories.




> MANDREL AND TONGS FOR PRESS No. 2. - U.S. Steel Homestead Works, Press Shop No. 2, Along Monongahela River, Homestead, Allegheny County, PA



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg
20MB TIF from the Library of Congress: https://cdn.loc.gov/master/pnp/habsh...s/359149pu.tif

----------

Frank S (Nov 22, 2018),

PJs (Nov 24, 2018),

Seedtick (Nov 23, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 22, 2018)

----------


## Jon

> 48-inch universal plate mill, Homestead Steel Wks. [Works], Homestead, Pa.



Around 1908, judging from the copyright stamp in the lower left-hand corner (alas, expired  :Smile:  ).

Click the image below for a fullsize jpg, or get the 157MB tif from the Library of Congress. This is our largest fullsize image yet - 10,144x8096. Stand back!

----------

baja (Nov 29, 2018),

PJs (Nov 28, 2018),

Seedtick (Nov 28, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

Jon you are going to keep on and I am going to steal my wife's 56" High resolution television and use it as the monitor for my laptop. I have a 32" that I use sometimes already for my drawings. Hum" maybe I should ask Santa for a new 102" Sony for Christmas.

----------

PJs (Nov 28, 2018)

----------


## Jon

> CLOSE-UP VIEW INTO A REHEATING FURNACE IN THE No. 2 FORGE SHOP. THE FURNACE IS MISSING ITS REFRACTORY BRICK LINING. - U.S. Steel Homestead Works, Press Shop No. 2, Along Monongahela River, Homestead, Allegheny County, PA






> Significance: As a group, the structures and steel-making equipment from Homestead Works represented one of the nation's most important steel mills and the Mon Valley's status as the pre-eminent iron and steel center in the United States for much of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries.



Click on the image below for a fullsize jpg, or get the 19MB tif from the Library of Congress website.

----------

PJs (Nov 30, 2018),

Seedtick (Nov 29, 2018)

----------


## Jon

> GENERAL CROSS-VIEW OF No 1 PRESS AND PUMPING ENGINE. - U.S. Steel Homestead Works, Press Shop No. 1, Along Monongahela River, Homestead, Allegheny County, PA



Click the image below for a fullsize jpg, or get the 17MB tif from the Library of Congress.

----------

PJs (Nov 30, 2018),

Seedtick (Nov 30, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 30, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

Using the body or the press as a support for the overhead crane rails can be a mixed blessing on the 1 hand it is defiantly a solid support. But on the other hand all noise and vibrations from it are transmitted throughout the building.

----------

PJs (Nov 30, 2018)

----------


## PJs

Those are keepers Jon! Thanks...got quite a collection now...and probably not enough time.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Jon

> ROTARY PLATE SHEAR IN STAINLESS PROCESSING BUILDING - U.S. Steel Homestead Works, Stainless Steel Processing Plant, Along Monongahela River, Homestead, Allegheny County, PA






> Significance: As a group, the structures and steel-making equipment from Homestead Works represented one of the nation's most important steel mills and the Mon Valley's status as the pre-eminent iron and steel center in the United States for much of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries.



Click an image below for a fullsize jpg, or get the 19MB tifs from the Library of Congress:

19MB tif of first image from the Library of Congress website
19MB tif of second image from the Library of Congress website

----------

PJs (Dec 1, 2018),

Seedtick (Nov 30, 2018)

----------


## PJs

The Shear size of it is mind blowing.  :Stick Out Tongue:  Great article and pics Jon!

----------


## Jon

> VIEW SOUTHEAST TO TRIPHAMMER. - East Broad Top Railroad & Coal Company, Blacksmith Shop, State Route 994, West of U.S. Route 522, Rockhill Furnace, Huntingdon County, PA






> Significance: The Blacksmith Shop, along with the Machine Shop and Foundry, was one of the three primary metalworking facilities at the East Broad Top Shop complex. Built prior to 1882, and enlarged after a fire in 1908, the wood-frame, board-and-batten sided Blacksmith shop was equipped for both general and specialized metal forming tasks. Major blacksmithing equipment includes three coal-fired forges, a massive 3,300 lb. steam-powered forging hammer, a smaller belt-driven hammer, and a reciprocating metal saw. Two areas of the Blacksmith Shop were devoted to specific processes and utilized specialized equipment. Locomotive boiler flues were cleaned, swoged, and rewelded using an oil-fired forge and pneumatic flue swager, and locomotive elliptic spring clusters were repaired and tempered by the EBT blacksmiths. Some occasional light smithing has been performed since the EBT ceased operation in 1956, and some minor stabilization of the structure has been done, otherwise, the Blacksmith Shop remains in essentially original condition.



Click an image below for a fullsize jpg, or get the 17MB tifs from the Library of Congress:

17MB tif of first image from the Library of Congress website
17MB tif of second image from the Library of Congress website

----------

PJs (Dec 2, 2018),

Seedtick (Dec 3, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Bucyrus steam shovel. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 1918.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Dec 11, 2018),

PJs (Dec 8, 2018),

Saxon Violence (Dec 20, 2018),

Seedtick (Dec 8, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 8, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Bucyrus steam shovel. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 1918.



MY Bucyrus dines on your Bucyrus. With relish!
But yours isn't a celebrity either, Brutus is the world's largest electric shovel. Also on display there in West Kansas is the smaller bucket, only 40 cubic yards... 

Wanna see it? Do ya, do ya? Sorry this hack isn't black and white.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-bi...-19657627.html

Spoiler alert; examine foreground of shot site opens with.

----------

NortonDommi (Dec 10, 2018),

PJs (Dec 9, 2018)

----------


## owen moore

I have stood on the top of a strip mine pit and watched Brutus dig. You could almost feel the ground shake. That was around 1965. The strange thing about a monster like that was how quiet it was, as it was all electric. Currently, Brutus is in its final resting place in a city park in West Mineral, Kansas. There is a museum there as well.

----------

PJs (Dec 9, 2018)

----------


## PJs

Man they came a long way in 45 years...feels like Exponential technological growth for digging up earth for its treasures. Technology at its cutting edge height in both eras.

----------


## CharlesWaugh

My apologies if this has been posted before, but her's a video about 'America's Iron Giants' - it's all about those monster presses. 



Here's the blurb:
"This is the story of America's massive forging presses built during the cold war used to build America's most advanced machinery - the Heavy Press Program. Modern airplanes, missiles, helicopters, turbines - all have parts made on these giant machines!"

----------

PJs (Dec 10, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Yes, it has been posted before, but no need to apologize - it's a great video, and I hope it will be posted again and again. The creator is a member here, username machinethinking. Check out this other video he posted: World's Oldest Micrometer - 1776! Who made this thing??

----------

PJs (Dec 10, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 19, 2018)

----------


## Jon

> Farquhar Style K tractor powering a Farquhar sawmill, York PA c.1918



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Dec 20, 2018),

Seedtick (Dec 20, 2018)

----------


## suther51

About 2 hrs away there is a show called The Pagent Of Steam in Canadagua N.Y.. I am the most impressed with how quiet the steam tractors are. Just a little mechanical ticking n so forth. Came away thinking how easy it would be to get run over if both pedestrian and operator were distracted. Fastenating machines. 
Eric

----------

PJs (Dec 22, 2018)

----------


## Jon

> Buckeye Traction Ditcher for the Army, Findlay, OH c.1918



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Dec 30, 2018),

KustomsbyKent (Jan 2, 2019),

PJs (Dec 26, 2018),

Seedtick (Dec 24, 2018)

----------


## PJs

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg



Nice pic Jon! Pretty sophisticated tracks on that for 1918.

----------


## Jon

> Gantry steam crane for construction of ships 8,000 tons with an 80 foot boom - c.1918



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Jan 4, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 4, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 8, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> 75 hp hoisting engine used to haul loaded cars up the 800 ft. incline on the Camp Humphreys railway - May 1918



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Jan 10, 2019),

Saxon Violence (Jan 9, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 9, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 8, 2019)

----------


## cmarlow

Steam donkey (donkey engine)
They were used fairly often for logging, especially on the west coast, and in sailing ports for loading cargo. They used to move them over short distances by using the winches to drag them into location. Once the donkey was in place the rigging was set up, either by setting up derricks, shear legs, or by rigging a spar tree.

Hey ho away we go!
Donkey riding! Donkey riding!

----------

PJs (Jan 10, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 9, 2019)

----------


## mklotz

The donkey is a popular modeling subject among the live steam modelers. Here's a video showing some of them in action mimicing the operation of the full size ones...




I have a plan book for building one but haven't yet gotten around to it. If interested, the book is still available from Amazon...

https://www.amazon.com/Steam-Donkey-.../dp/0941653692

----------

cmarlow (Jan 10, 2019),

Jon (Jan 10, 2019),

PJs (Jan 10, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 10, 2019)

----------


## PJs

Something about this great pic struck a chord and remembering Dad's stories of working in the Redwoods after WWII with Donkey's, sent me on a rabbit run. The wiki write up is short but there is a flicker link at the bottom that has some Great pics of the men and machines of this campaign for narrow gauge RR. Great archive of that history and the people there.

Thanks Jon!

----------


## PJs

> The donkey is a popular modeling subject among the live steam modelers. Here's a video showing some of them in action mimicing the operation of the full size ones...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a plan book for building one but haven't yet gotten around to it. If interested, the book is still available from Amazon...
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Steam-Donkey-.../dp/0941653692



That video goes along with some of Dad's stories of snapping cables and folks pinned under logs and loading logs on trucks strung between trees with Accidents waiting to happen. Dangerous work requiring focuses attention to detail. 

Thanks Marv...Cool video, Model and book. 

PJ

----------


## cmarlow

That is an amazing little video.

----------


## Jon

Thew Type 00 traction crane. Circa 1918.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

glenntref (Jan 12, 2019),

oldpastit (Jan 12, 2019),

PJs (Jan 12, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 11, 2019)

----------


## PJs

Nice. I like the simplicity of the crane, droopy chain drive and all. Also looks to be a steam roller behind it with the main roller in the middle with fat wheels outboard. Looks like it will take a similar steam cabin on top of the pin. Pretty cool design. Two cars in the background, a rag top model T, I think, and some other 4 seat'er coach...Also note someone is having a castle with a turret built in the background. Pic is pretty pixelated and perhaps water-colorized but good contrast at distance, and the framing is great. Over all a great pic of the times.

Thanks Jon.

----------

cmarlow (Jan 12, 2019)

----------


## cmarlow

> ...Also note someone is having a castle with a turret built in the background. Pic is pretty pixelated and perhaps water-colorized but good contrast at distance, and the framing is great. Over all a great pic of the times.
> 
> Thanks Jon.



I think the castle might be a church.

----------

PJs (Jan 13, 2019)

----------


## PJs

> I think the castle might be a church.



Could be and I thought of that, just haven't seen a bell tower/steeple of that shape before...perhaps some form of Orthodox?

----------


## CharlesWaugh

It sure looks like a Russian Orthodox 'onion dome' steeple - with the trefoil cross on top like THIS

----------

PJs (Jan 13, 2019)

----------


## cmarlow

Possibly orthodox, possibly spanish. If there was any way of guessing which city these cranes or steam shovels were being assembled in it might be possible to use an index of old churches to both ID the church and the location of the yard.

----------

PJs (Jan 13, 2019)

----------


## PJs

> Possibly orthodox, possibly spanish. If there was any way of guessing which city these cranes or steam shovels were being assembled in it might be possible to use an index of old churches to both ID the church and the location of the yard.



I have no reason or clue why but Detroit comes to my head...flora and fauna would be tell tail I think.

----------

cmarlow (Jan 13, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

PJs' examines these photos in detail. Upon receiving his tele-messages, I'm off to enlarge them and do the fine-toothed comb biz. You'll always find something neat. This time, the connection between axle and wheel hub; a unique drive indeed.

----------

PJs (Jan 13, 2019)

----------


## cmarlow

I am thinking the units (in the background right) which the crane is being used to assemble are likely Erie Model B steam shovels because of the wide iron wheels on them. The Marion or Buckeye units are the same style and they might be Marion Model 2B shovels. I think the time frame would be @1910.
Marion assembled quite a few shovels to dig the Panama canal. Is it possible this is an assembly yard in Panama?
I googled historic church images for Panama and some of them look like the church tower in the picture.
I doubt if they are in Panama because of the pine trees, but since I have no idea whether pine trees grow in Panama I am merely guessing.

----------

PJs (Jan 13, 2019)

----------


## PJs

Anybody catch the guy sleeping next to the tree? Sorry but it feels like the north east to me based on the architecture of the house next to the Model T...the chimney in particular. The trees are too grainy for any real discernment but again it doesn't feel like Panama flora and fauna...but never been there so I may be wrong. Thew and Marion company were based in Ohio...perhaps a yard for them. You may be right that the Thew was used to build the bigger Marions. Starting to get to the edges of my knowing of these machines.

 :Hat Tip:  PJ

----------

cmarlow (Jan 13, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Diesel Bucyrus dragline shovel. 1918.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jan 22, 2019),

cmarlow (Jan 18, 2019),

PJs (Jan 19, 2019),

Saxon Violence (Feb 1, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 21, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Coaling pier at Curtis Bay, MD c.1918



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

cmarlow (Jan 21, 2019),

PJs (Jan 22, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 21, 2019)

----------


## cmarlow

I wonder how many hours it took to grease all those rollers, and how often they had to be greased.

----------


## Frank S

an industrial supply company's dream come true. 1000s of bearings miles of belting hundreds of gear reduction transmissions equal number of electric motors.
After I returned from the middle East I stopped in at the bearing & chain and supply to meet an old friend of mine who I used to buy those very same items from back when he first started at the company in 1979 a young salesman fresh out of college I may have been one of his first regular customers Back then we bought so much stuff that they would open up at midnight to fill a requests. 
When I walked in that day by then he was the branch manager and was telling some of his salesmen some things they needed to do then he saw me and said there is a guy you need to find to really set your careers in motion this is Frank and he bought BEARINGS buy the tons

----------

cmarlow (Jan 22, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Lackawanna Iron Ore pier, Buffalo NY c.1900



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Jan 24, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 24, 2019)

----------


## basil3w

Check out that 'Whaleback' freighter docked up alongside!

----------

PJs (Jan 25, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Farquhar 15-25 farm tractor c.1918



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jan 30, 2019),

PJs (Jan 29, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 29, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg



I'm guessing they left the lugs or cleats off the traction wheels when they restored it to prevent damage tot the driveway surface

----------


## cmarlow

Somehow I think that is an original condition machine. The lugs, treads, or spades were usually supplied in a case and added later to suit the ground the machine was working on instead of being bolted on at the factory. Any of the old timers I asked about the iron wheel tractors always said how much better the pneumatic tires were and told me even with the big spades on the iron wheels they would still get stuck. Many of these old tractors were used more as an engine to drive other machinery like threshers instead of used for pulling ploughs. The old guys told me they often hitched the horse to the threshing machine to pull it from one farm to the next and thought they were doing good if the traction engine could move itself. Sometimes they had to use horse to move the engines too. The spades did prevent the engines from sliding toward the threshers or mills as they worked so there is that to it too.
Not being old enough to have ran one I have to trust what my Grandfathers told me about them.

----------

PJs (Jan 30, 2019)

----------


## suther51

My father grew up on several hardscrabble farms. On one they had an old farmall 10-20 with iron wheels. If it hit soft enough ground with heavy enough load he said that it would just start digging with those wheels till the diff hit the ground. If things went well it would slowly chew its way out. If not they went n hitched up the mule to help pull it out. 
Eric

----------

cmarlow (Jan 30, 2019),

PJs (Jan 30, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Crane used for moving gun barrels at the U.S. Naval Gun Factory, Washington Navy Yard, Washington D.C., c.1909



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jan 30, 2019),

PJs (Jan 30, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 30, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 30, 2019)

----------


## Pa1963

> I'm guessing they left the lugs or cleats off the traction wheels when they restored it to prevent damage tot the driveway surface



Early Hoyt-Clagwell prototype?

----------


## Toolmaker51

> My father grew up on several hardscrabble farms. On one they had an old farmall 10-20 with iron wheels. If it hit soft enough ground with heavy enough load he said that it would just start digging with those wheels till the diff hit the ground. If things went well it would slowly chew its way out. If not they went n hitched up the mule to help pull it out. 
> Eric



"...one day when the oil barons all drip dry...

----------


## Jon

Lanz tractor. Described as "6-cylinder, 1918".

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

cmarlow (Feb 3, 2019),

greyhoundollie (Feb 4, 2019),

PJs (Feb 5, 2019),

Seedtick (Feb 4, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Yikes what a behemoth. 6 cylinders indeed, maybe for each wheel. Or a single engine and oil drum sized pistons...

----------


## suther51

The size of that tool box might tell you some thing about the maintenance. 
Eric

----------

Toolmaker51 (Feb 3, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> The size of that tool box might tell you some thing about the maintenance. 
> Eric



That's just for cherry picker, retrieves tools from box on port side, even larger! Roof over driver doubles as oil drain pan, dare I say?

----------


## cmarlow

Looking at the picture the cylinders and heads seem to be bolted to the block in 2 cylinder units.
I am having a hard time imagining what this big of a machine was made for, but by the picture dated 1918 I suspect it was for dragging artillery around. I also suspect this is a captured piece of equipment.
Lanz was a German company, does anybody recognize the uniforms or weapons the soldiers have? The soldier on the right has his shoulder patch and rifle.

----------


## TSiArt

I came across a Video on youtube of cold start after 45 years of Ursus C-45. Did more searching and I almost fell in love with it. I love it how the steering wheel is the start crank too. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanz_Bulldog

----------

Toolmaker51 (Feb 5, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> I came across a Video on youtube of cold start after 45 years of Ursus C-45.



Cued to cold start at 2:40:

----------

Andyt (Feb 6, 2019),

PJs (Feb 7, 2019),

rlm98253 (Feb 5, 2019),

Seedtick (Feb 5, 2019),

Steved53 (Feb 6, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 5, 2019),

TSiArt (Feb 6, 2019)

----------


## PJs

That's a big'O 2 stroke. "cylinder capacity of 10,300 cc" (628 Cu. in.). Wonder what the fuel was?

----------

cmarlow (Feb 7, 2019)

----------


## Jon

When the engine starts, a grown man literally jumps for joy.

----------

PJs (Feb 8, 2019),

TSiArt (Feb 11, 2019)

----------


## cmarlow

What I was told was crude oil, but I think they meant any sort of diesel or vegetable oil. Wikipedia says the Ursus 45 tractor was an unlicensed Polish copy of the German Lanz D 9506 Bulldog tractor.

----------

PJs (Feb 8, 2019)

----------


## PJs

> What I was told was crude oil, but I think they meant any sort of diesel or vegetable oil. Wikipedia says the Ursus 45 tractor was an unlicensed Polish copy of the German Lanz D 9506 Bulldog tractor.



Yeah, I was thinking fuel oil because of its availability then and the 2 stroke. What ever it was it wasn't burning too clean...they were in a cloud in only a few minutes.

----------


## cmarlow

Yes, I was noticing the smokiness too. My safety sense was screaming about ventilation instead of asphyxiation.

You realize it is a hot bulb engine instead of a diesel engine. While a diesel ignites the fuel with compression heat the hot bulb starts burning the oil inside the hot bulb. Since hot bulbs do not need compression to fire they can run with less than 5:1 compression ratios. Hot bulb engines can burn almost any kind of oil as long as it is thin enough to get into the bulb on the intake stroke of the engine unlike diesels which have to be able to pump the oil into the compressed cylinder as a fine spray.

----------

PJs (Feb 8, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 17, 2019)

----------


## PJs

> Yes, I was noticing the smokiness too. My safety sense was screaming about ventilation instead of asphyxiation.
> 
> You realize it is a hot bulb engine instead of a diesel engine. While a diesel ignites the fuel with compression heat the hot bulb starts burning the oil inside the hot bulb. Since hot bulbs do not need compression to fire they can run with less than 5:1 compression ratios. Hot bulb engines can burn almost any kind of oil as long as it is thin enough to get into the bulb on the intake stroke of the engine unlike diesels which have to be able to pump the oil into the compressed cylinder as a fine spray.



Yes I did. Hence the fuel oil thought as it's a relatively thin, low grade Distillate fuel and #6 (thinnest) runs vary sooty and would likely work in a bulb, especially once every thing warmed up. That was a pretty good size torch he used to get it started. 

However my brain thinks of diesels as 4 stroke for some reason, although I know there are 2 strokes from way back...and that they are called Diesels because the burn Diesel. Wiki or other searches didn't say much about the kind of fuel this engine burned, so it guess and by-golly for me. Could have been Kerosene just as well back then but much more expensive and more of a premium in Poland I would think at that time.

 :Hat Tip:  PJ

----------


## cmarlow

Detroit Diesel produced engines for heavy trucks that were 2 stroke diesel. They had ported cylinders to get fresh air and had exhaust valves to get rid of the burnt stuff. They are "interesting", were very popular, and I believe copies are still being made for industrial use.

----------


## Jon

> Type F Brown Hoisting Machinery Co. locomotive crane with 40 ft. boom, 1918.



Looks like some crane attachments are drawn on the image, like photoshopping from 100 years ago.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

cmarlow (Feb 10, 2019),

PJs (Feb 11, 2019),

Seedtick (Feb 11, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 10, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

If you blow up the photo the block and hook are defiantly an added in drawing

----------

cmarlow (Feb 11, 2019)

----------


## cmarlow

The bumpers and chains on the rail car are drawn in too.

----------


## sossol

Maybe they were drawn over the real things because they were unable to capture the detail, those parts were washed out/overexposed. It was common enough then to spawn a joke that goes something like:
Customer takes an old family photo to a photo store and asked them to remove grandpa's hat from the photo. The clerk asks "What color was his hair?". The customer replied with "Won't you find that out when you remove his hat?"

Neil

----------

cmarlow (Feb 11, 2019),

PJs (Feb 11, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 11, 2019)

----------


## PJs

> Looks like some crane attachments are drawn on the image, like photoshopping from 100 years ago.



I'll try this again as I Oxiduntly errasticated my first post.

I think these were probably done later and likely with modern techniques. It is possible they were done back then but this type of enhancement didn't take place very much until a decade later when inks were developed to work with either the prints or negatives, then reprinted/developed.

Close inspection of the crane I would say that the crane itself (selected) was enhanced with at least with contrast, brightness and perhaps exposure to highlight the crane over the rest of the picture (background washed out). Huge amount of lint/scratches close up that were resolved in the crane itself. The boom, although still grainy definitely has contrast adjustment and some clean up. The cabin was more so enhanced using a clone stamp or some minimal opacity brush work and the arc of that light/shadow does not fit the lighting profile...scratches are maybe 20% of the background.

As for the block/hook, note that the back of the neck of the hook has and over-spray/brush mark of lesser opacity. The block could have easily been added and the use of a clone stamp or Bandaid tool used to make it look old with the smear. The bumpers and turnbuckles and the top hat on the cabin were similarly produced with small brush work and on the rear bumper there is (obvious to me) cleanup/clone stamp work around it and inside the step bar. The top hat is much more subtle, again lighter lint/scratch and the use of opacity and spray-brush to create the reflective effect.

I probably deleted the first one subconsciously to minimize my usual spewing syllogistical thesis so I will stop here.

Thanks Jon for another rabbit hole of wonder.

 :Hat Tip: 
PJ

----------

cmarlow (Feb 11, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 17, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

to minimize my usual spewing syllogistical thesis so I will stop here.
Ha ha I'll have to remember that one judging from the length of most of my posts

----------

PJs (Feb 12, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Steam hammer used for forging steel at the Midvale Steel Company, c. 1905.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

greyhoundollie (Feb 13, 2019),

high-side (Feb 21, 2019),

PJs (Feb 13, 2019),

Seedtick (Feb 13, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 13, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Installation of the Gargamelle chamber body. Placement of the chamber in the oblong shaped magnet coils. January 1970.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Feb 17, 2019),

Seedtick (Feb 15, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> George A. Van Biesbroeck (1880-1974), astronomer at Yerkes Observatory observing Mars when it approached close to the earth in 1926, and using the 40 inch refracting telescope, the largest of its kind in the world.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (Feb 20, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 19, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

With some spare time; I'll make up funny labels for all those handwheels. I count 7...Sure, they're for mirror alignment, but that's boring.

----------


## suther51

Real special label for the one with the wad of string (?) In the middle ;-)

Tactile identifier?

Eric

----------


## mklotz

> With some spare time; I'll make up funny labels for all those handwheels. I count 7...Sure, they're for mirror alignment, but that's boring.



It's a refractor so mirror alignment isn't much of a problem. (The components that always work flawlessly are the ones that aren't there.) Regardless, I'm very impressed by the ability to precision grind a 40 inch lens back in those days.

You've got me wondering what is being controlled with all those ship wheels. I suspect most of them are controlling mechanical rather than optical properties of the instrument.

More on the Yerkes Observatory here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerkes_Observatory

----------


## Jon

Avery 40-80 tractor. 1917.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (Feb 27, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 27, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Fageol heavy-duty tractor and trailers. 1918.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Alan Purdy (Mar 1, 2019),

baja (Mar 1, 2019),

cmarlow (Feb 27, 2019),

Seedtick (Feb 27, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 27, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Seems trailer chassis have a LOT of plumbing, quite similar to the tractor. 
Looks like the boxes are capable of side dump? Latches at the bottom, hinges atop. 
And I'd want to be the fly on wall, for sales pitch on [non-existant] forward and starboard visibility. "Well sir, good point; but top speed is only 8mph, left hand turns are easy, and texting hasn't been invented yet."

----------


## cmarlow

This Fageol thing looks more like a road train than a tractor and trailers. I am wondering if it had air brakes. It looks like all of the trucks under the engine as well as the cars were steering.

Fageol also produced the Cargoliner truck in the 1950s. The front steering was unusual because the whole axle pivoted like a wagon axle would.

----------


## Jon

> Official Maybach Motorenbau Works photo of type MD870 diesel motor, delivered to the German Federal Railways (Deutsche Bundesbahn) in the 1950s.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Apr 2, 2019),

cmarlow (Mar 31, 2019),

Scotty2 (Apr 1, 2019),

Seedtick (Apr 1, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 31, 2019)

----------


## Jon

1918 Farquhar tractor.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

Alan Purdy (Apr 5, 2019),

ranald (Apr 4, 2019),

Seedtick (Apr 4, 2019)

----------


## ranald

She's a beauty.

----------


## Jon

Load test on Hammerhead crane. 1933.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Apr 9, 2019),

cmarlow (Apr 6, 2019),

mwmkravchenko (Apr 8, 2019),

Seedtick (Apr 10, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 6, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Impeller in machine shop. NASA/Glenn Research Center. 1945.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...p_fullsize.jpg




More: https://archive.org/details/C-1945-10126

----------

aussie (Apr 13, 2019),

KustomsbyKent (Apr 11, 2019),

PowerMk (Apr 12, 2019),

Seedtick (Apr 11, 2019),

tonyfoale (Apr 12, 2019)

----------


## Dave Koehler

The NASA image is interesting BUT NASA was not formed until 1958.

AHHH, OK. Took another look. That is from the NACA records. The predecessor to NASA.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Nitpicky nitpick, NASA wasn't NASA until later in the 50's; in 1945 it was still NACA.

That's one heckuva dividing head!

----------


## Jon

Agreed, thanks. NASA/Glenn Research Center is the name of the image upload account at Archive.org: https://archive.org/details/C-1945-10126

But I should've caught that anyway! It's also right there at the bottom of the photo.

----------


## Toolmaker51

A Cincinnati mill, with a Bridgeport high speed spindle [M head] with a shop-made mount. One hydraulic stylus for blade profile, another for blade foil, operating the indexer. It's tied to gear motor by another a shop-made bracket. The "Y" axis, mounts with the now ubiquitous shop-made bracket. 
Unclear if the indexer is manually advanced for each blade, because the dividing plate and sector seem engaged. A tapered [maybe 2 or 3 degree] helical ball-end cutter is milling [or some] contours. 
Wish the labels on the boxes were legible. Quite some time before CNC, hydraulic tracers did accurate work. Achieving precision like turbine vanes, patterns sized 10:1, reduction is mechanical. Part of the trick in reducing step over mark is juggling stylus and endmill tip radius, and pattern surface.

I've liked many of these B&W photos, I must print this one!

And best thing of all?
I bet this is the same tool room pictured a few weeks back, with the Rotary Head Mill in the lower left. Another bet, a guy there built shop-made brackets!

----------


## tonyfoale

> ..... Quite some time before CNC, hydraulic tracers did accurate work.....



In the early 1970s I started a business making cast motorcycle wheels. I got a bank loan to buy an hydraulic tracer for copying the rim profiles. An incredible device which sure beat the manual machining and form tools that I had used until I saw the light. I had different templates for different width rims. The tracer could follow the templates to half a thou. One of the best business investments that I ever made.
I have no pix of the tracer but here is one of the wheels showing the rim profile.

----------

Jon (Apr 12, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 12, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

The next step after the hydraulic tracers was the punch card with hydraulic movement I almost bought a horizontal center that also had a high speed for the time period vertical spindle. The problem as I saw it was there were no manual controls and the NC controller with a punch card slot was non functional, the machine was a few years old in the early 90s and repairing or upgrading it would have cost twice as much as I could have bought the machine for

----------


## Jon

> A cantilever pontoon crane fitted with steel structure and overhead trolley with wire ropes and tackle, pontoon built by Union Iron Works, San Francisco (hull #105), superstructure by Wellman Seaver Morgan Co., Cleveland OH, machinery and hull were assembled together at Honolulu. The machinery was apparently of German origin and came to the US as war reparations 
> Delivered in 1903 
> Assigned to 14th Naval District at Naval Shipyard Pearl Harbor, T.H. 
> Length 100' 
> Breadth 60' 
> Lifting Capacity 100 t. Final Disposition, fate unknown



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg



More: Miscellaneous Photo Index

----------

Alan Purdy (Apr 13, 2019),

Seedtick (Apr 13, 2019)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

"The machinery was apparently of German origin and came to the US as war reparations Delivered in 1903 "

War reparations from when? If from WWI that's a neat trick getting war reparations 4 years before we entered the war and 5 before the war ended...no wonder Germany lost!

Given that image clearly shows a battle-damaged sunken ship and the info says the crane was deployed to Pearl, I'll wager the delivery date is supposed to be 1923 (or even 1933) instead; and the photo dates from some time post-attack as they were salvaging one of the battleships. (given the triple turret showing, maybe the Nevada?)

----------

Alan Purdy (Apr 13, 2019),

Jon (Apr 12, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Found a Mesta company brochure! 1919. Scanned from the Smithsonian collection. _Plant and Product of the Mesta Machine Company_.
Download PDF: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...ne_company.pdf

Some screenshots from the PDF:







Download PDF: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...ne_company.pdf

----------

Seedtick (Apr 13, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

All new kind of rabbit hole; downloading Mesta's 1919 PDF. 
Take a shower, have dinner, go bowling, rebuild the truck. . .Go ahead, you have time! 
But it's going to be worth it, judging from initial pages. Not just awesome; Majestic! 

If the _"High-quality black-and-white photographs of large old machines and tools"_ thread had to close, nothing surpasses this entry; as perfect visualization of that topic.

----------


## tonyfoale

They might not have had Photoshop but they knew how to retouch photos back then.

----------


## skibo

I love these pictures of the way it was done many many years ago, but I would just love a little caption about the time period and what it was used for! Like last picture, What the Hell is it with it's 600' shaft and all!

----------

Toolmaker51 (Apr 13, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I love these pictures of the way it was done many many years ago, but I would just love a little caption about the time period and what it was used for! Like last picture, What the Hell is it with it's 600' shaft and all!



At this moment, it's a guess. But the binder is dated 1919, within it mentions a department turning propeller shafts, ocean liner sized. That struck me as a line of machines filling just such orders. As shafts are predetermined length flange to flange, there'd be no reason of 'twisting' the placement of lathes diagonally as we are accustomed in conventional shops. Also, large spindle bore headstocks hadn't caught on yet, running material through spindles was mainly relegated as a turret lathe technique. 
I've been studying the brochure. aside from incredible sizes depicted in machinery and footprint of the plant. There are many illustrations of how loads were rigged on rail-cars to meet load restrictions on physical size. I'm convinced MESTA would have cast and machined larger yet; but infrastructure couldn't accommodate shipping and offload at most sites.

----------


## cmarlow

Strong crane lifts two men!

----------


## Toolmaker51

Scheduled point of delivery unknown, last one available. Here poised on railhead, a Mesta 50 Forging Press Stationary Crosshead Casting on a Pennsylvania RR flat car.

----------


## Toolmaker51

Fresh from production,

Again, last on available.
Anyway on ebay. . .

----------


## Jon

> The reactor vessel head for the Energy Research and Development Administration's Fast Flux Test Facility (FFTF) at Hanford, Washington. c. 1974.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...d_fullsize.jpg

----------

MeJasonT (May 3, 2019),

Paul Jones (Apr 21, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 21, 2019),

Seedtick (Apr 20, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 21, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...d_fullsize.jpg



TM51 there is us a milling machine to fight over , My building is not going to be tall enough

----------

Gromet (Apr 21, 2019),

MeJasonT (May 3, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 21, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 21, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

I respectfully decline altercation. Neither my ceiling high enough, or floor thick enough. Or budget for endmills. And no bridge crane, WAG is 200 ton and 60' under rail. My favorite scale reference, isn't the 2 machinists, it's the caged ascent ladder, f'n straight up! Rungs are probably 10 to 11" on center, inclined ladders are 12" IIRC.
I count 39 or so. Know why? 
So they can replace bulbs in the aircraft warning lights. Or a sadistic HR department locates the time clock up there. 
Come to think of it, haven't a wrench for the 6" clamp studs.

I worked my keester off all day. I'll call tomorrow if I can lift the phone.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 21, 2019)

----------


## ranald

post 145 . Forget the phone, will you have the energy to type? Ha Ha
cheers

----------

Toolmaker51 (Apr 21, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> post 145 . Forget the phone, will you have the energy to type? Ha Ha
> cheers



Phone on speaker, won't need to lift it. For just so special occasions I hunt & peck one fingered.

----------

Gromet (Apr 21, 2019),

ranald (Apr 22, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> A steam traction engine powers excavation machine [Herman & Inshur General Contractors, Marquette, MI] Camp Humphreys, VA 1918.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

MeJasonT (May 3, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 4, 2019),

Seedtick (Apr 27, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Golden Gate bridge under construction in 1935.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg

----------

jackhoying (May 7, 2019),

MeJasonT (May 3, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 4, 2019),

Seedtick (May 3, 2019),

tooly (May 3, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Who's going to say it first? Epic, beautiful, a treasure in iron, recognized world-wide.
Just slide rules, long hand arithmetic, sketches, blueprints, surveying equipment, and assorted manual measuring tools. And I confidently guarantee bulk of initial materials were prepared offsite. 
The Golden Gate Bridge is a fixed six-lane roadway, is 1.7 miles long (main span is 4,200 feet long), and carries about 112,000 vehicles per day. Who _knows_ how many since opening.
I've driven and ridden over it many times and sailed underneath 4 times. BTW, aircraft carriers *must* await low tide. . .

----------

Scotsman Hosie (May 4, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Raising a massive log. 1905.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (May 5, 2019),

baja (May 5, 2019),

cmarlow (May 4, 2019),

ranald (May 6, 2019),

Seedtick (May 4, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 4, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

And a great reason phones are inadequate for rewarding internet content, reading "51,646 pounds, 48 FEET LONG, 6 1/2 FEET IN DIAMETER""

----------

cmarlow (May 4, 2019)

----------


## tonyfoale

> And a great reason phones are inadequate for rewarding internet content, reading "51,646 pounds, 48 FEET LONG, 6 1/2 FEET IN DIAMETER""



Giving a density of 32.4 lb/ft^3

----------

Toolmaker51 (May 4, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Giving a density of 32.4 lb/ft^3



The log; or my head?

----------


## tonyfoale

> The log; or my head?



Is there a difference?

----------

Toolmaker51 (May 4, 2019)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

LOL! 

The log is probably freshly harvested old-growth. Dunno about Toolmaker51 :-P

That is a massive log building they're putting up; any idea of where it is? The Photographer's credit says Portland OR, but it could be anywhere in the Pac NW...

----------

cmarlow (May 4, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 4, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Is there a difference?



Told I have bark, so there's probably knot much difference. But no termites!

----------


## cmarlow

Portland is correct. It burned down August 17, 1964.
Oregon lost world's biggest log cabin in spectacular 1964 fire | Offbeat Oregon History

"Oregon lost world’s biggest log cabin in spectacular 1964 fire
Ancient electrical wiring ignited Portland's legendary Forestry Building, a structure made of massive, flawless old-growth logs that had been built for the Lewis and Clark Exposition in 1905.
Forestry building, Portland, Oregon. Built 1905; burned in a cataclysmic fire 1964.
A souvenir postcard image of the Forestry Building from the 1905 Lewis 
and Clark Expo, probably from a sketch made before construction was 
complete.
"

----------

Andyt (May 5, 2019),

baja (May 5, 2019),

Jon (May 4, 2019),

JTG (May 5, 2019),

KustomsbyKent (May 8, 2019),

Seedtick (May 4, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 4, 2019)

----------


## cmarlow

> LOL! 
> 
> The log is probably freshly harvested old-growth. Dunno about Toolmaker51 :-P
> 
> That is a massive log building they're putting up; any idea of where it is? The Photographer's credit says Portland OR, but it could be anywhere in the Pac NW...



http://www.portlandonline.com/shared...e.cfm?id=26259

----------


## Jon

> Giant seawall under construction by Seabees of the 76th Construction Battalion at Apra Harbor, Guam. When completed the two mile breakwater will contain 1,760,000 cubic yards of earth and stone. A 30-ton boulder is hauled to dumping spot. 1945.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (May 8, 2019),

Seedtick (May 7, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 7, 2019)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Well THAT sucks :-(

(referring to the Forestry building, not the massive boulder above!)

----------

cmarlow (May 19, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Transfer steamer _Detroit_ train ferry. The Detroit river, 1905.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

Alan Purdy (May 10, 2019),

jimfols (May 9, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 21, 2019),

Seedtick (May 9, 2019),

Slawman (May 12, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 9, 2019)

----------


## jimfols

My Grandfather (Big Mike) worked on the train ferry crossing the Delaware at Philadelphia.
Thanks for the memories.

----------


## tonyfoale

> My Grandfather (Big Mike) worked on the train ferry crossing the Delaware at Philadelphia.
> Thanks for the memories.



I didn't even know train ferries existed until I saw the pic here.

----------


## Slawman

I would love to see the Boilers & engines. I was a BT in the US Navy.

----------


## Jon

Flash cooler and distributing header. NACA Aircraft Engine Research Laboratory. 1943.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

Alan Purdy (May 14, 2019),

jimfols (May 12, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 21, 2019),

Seedtick (May 13, 2019)

----------


## jimfols

That's an old White tractor stuck in the mud whilst trying to jockey it into position.

https://archive.org/details/C-1943-1916

This is from their website.
Norris Brothers Company was founded in 1867 by Thomas Norris Sr. as a heavy hauling and rigging contractor. Over 140 years later, the company has grown from a single team of horses to a modern company with the latest in equipment and technology. We are still owned by fourth generation family, and stand ready to meet the needs of industries in the greater Northeastern Ohio area.

Pretty cool

----------


## Jon

Manhattan Bridge under construction. March 1909.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg




A traveling crane installing a bridge section. Largest size image available:

----------

baja (May 21, 2019),

jimfols (May 19, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 21, 2019),

Seedtick (May 20, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 19, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Paterson, New Jersey - Textiles. Wishnack Silk Company. Fancies being woven. Front view of a Crompton Knowles 4 x 4 72 loom with an intermediate head. The particular loom shown is using 16 shafts, but has a capacity of 25. June 1937



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...m_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (May 21, 2019)

----------


## jimfols

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...m_fullsize.jpg



Looks like it would have been good sport to see who could do the fastest setup.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Looks like it would have been good sport to see who could do the fastest setup.



Not just spools of material, lube and cleaning; more hand-wheels than a refinery!

----------


## Jon

Niagara Falls castings.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jun 2, 2019),

Miloslav (Jun 1, 2019),

Seedtick (Jun 1, 2019)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

the mind kind of boggles at the work going into making that pattern and ramming it up with that complicated core. Surely they didn't have any form of lost foam casting back then...

----------


## jimfols

What impressed me was the state of the art ladders.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> What impressed me was the state of the art ladders.



Not a lot of metal workers are talented carpenters as well. . .

----------


## Ralphxyz

Are they still in use?

Ralph

----------


## bruce.desertrat

> Are they still in use?
> 
> Ralph



Doubt it, those ladders look pretty flimsy  :ROFL: 

They may be still in use, this is the Wikipedia article on the plant, based on the probable age of the photo. The plant has undergone refurbishment starting in 2012.

----------


## Jon

Flexible wall nozzle in the Lewis Unitary Plan Lupa wind tunnel. 1955.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (Jun 3, 2019),

tonyfoale (Jun 3, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> A Lynch bottle machine at work. In the center, a blob of molten glass is ready to drop into a mould, March 1937.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jun 20, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 22, 2019),

Seedtick (Jun 19, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

The white blob already looks like a solid bottle.

Ralph

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 22, 2019)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

I dimly recall watching a 'How it's made' episode on making glass bottles; IIRC it's a two-mold process: a first mold to shape the blob to as shown here, then a second one where the blob is blown to final dimensions.

----------


## Jon

> Steam roller being operated by Pvt. McCarthy of Co. C, 23rd Engrs, Pond d'Esse, France Jul 3, 1918.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 21, 2019),

MeJasonT (Jul 20, 2019),

Seedtick (Jul 20, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

I do not know if I have ever seen a real Steam Roller, thanks. Steam Roller was always a genetic term. Is the chain on the front wheel how it was steered?
Ralph

----------

MeJasonT (Jul 20, 2019)

----------


## skibo

The way they steered the engine was with the chains, it composed of a right and left screw in front of the fire box,as one side drew the chain in, the other side automatically let the chain out! The steering was handled as a normal steering wheel as you see in the picture above the rear wheel, it turned a 90 degree gear that turned the two direction screw, one side fed in or out on the top of the screw and the other fed in or out on the bottom! Both the road roller and regular wheeled traction engines were steered this way. Some manufactures even offered as an option steam powered steering with their engines, like the Avery steam engine, I'll bet they were a hand full on hilly and uneven conditions!

----------

Jon (Jul 20, 2019),

MeJasonT (Jul 20, 2019)

----------


## tonyfoale

> I do not know if I have ever seen a real Steam Roller, thanks. Steam Roller was always a genetic term. Is the chain on the front wheel how it was steered?
> Ralph



Yes the chain was how it was steered. it took many turns of the geared down steering wheel (with a handle like a lathe wheel) to produce significant deviation of path. When I was a kid the road outside of our house was repaired and so I got to see real steam rollers up close and I pestered the driver of the biggest until he let me have a ride and try to steer. Over the coming years I saw several more and always paid close attention to design features. I do not recall when I saw the last one. Diesel versions held no interest.

----------

MeJasonT (Jul 20, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Rollers; diesel or steam, were a favorite machine to watch as kid. As ralphxyz said, 'steam' roller is generic, but seems reasonable some holdovers remained in operation 6+ decades ago. Seems, they were far larger, doing freeway work. than what is common today. 
Then I fell into machine work and hadn't thought of them for a long time.
Until David Letterman started having late night fun with them. How we howled over those antics, especially bowling trophies!

----------


## Frank S

Had an uncle who when he thought us kids were a little too much under his feet while he was doing something. Would often say boys if you don't get your big feet out of my way I', going to run over them with a steam roller

----------


## skunkworks

60's vintage Kearney And Trecker Milwaukee matic IIIb nc

----------

MeJasonT (Jul 23, 2019)

----------


## skunkworks

And it still runs today!

----------

MeJasonT (Jul 23, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

I loved that bit change mech. 

Ralph

----------

MeJasonT (Jul 23, 2019)

----------


## MeJasonT

skunkworks
do you know what the cam program is running the machine - It looks like the old girl has been retrofitted.

----------


## skunkworks

Yes - we retrofitted it around 2010. We used Linuxcnc which is controlling everything. (spindle gearbox, tool chain and changer, pallets and motion *and whatever else I have forgotten...)

A short walk around...









> skunkworks
> do you know what the cam program is running the machine - It looks like the old girl has been retrofitted.

----------


## skibo

I'm with you, that bit changer is pretty cool! I spent several hours yesterday changing bits at my lathe to get to the proper size, it gets tiresome, also doing it on the drill press. I did notice though who ever and what ever they'r making they didn't worry about the chatter and screeching the larger bit made!

----------


## MeJasonT

skunkworks
I thought it was one of the DIY retrofit setups. That is a very impressive machine.
Its amazing all the Pro features you can add to an old machine by retrofitting it, i'm currently using GRBL on an old ELLIOT 181 miller and like you im impressed with what the machine is capable of. One of these days i will load linux onto an old PC and use it to run my machine but for now my head is stuck in windows world.
Linuxcnc adds a few features i don't currently have access to like tool changing and canned cycles which would be really nice.

----------


## skunkworks

we also converted a 80's vintage matsuura..

----------


## Toolmaker51

The arm style changers are somewhat faster than a carousel, as two functions are essentially simultaneous. On jobs using a large tool library, time saving is considerable.

----------


## skunkworks

Plus the K&T tooling is mechanically barcoded... So the tool can go anywhere in the chain and you can pre-fetch the tool..

----------


## Jon

> Strépy-Thieu boat lift, Belgium.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 28, 2019),

rlm98253 (Jul 27, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 28, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

I had to look for a video of that boat lift. Was hoping to find one in operation, but only found this one;

----------

Jon (Jul 28, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 28, 2019)

----------


## jimfols

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg



I found this one pretty impressive.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jul 28, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Steam tractor pulling grain separator along a country road, central Ohio - 1938.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 30, 2019),

neilbourjaily@gmail.com (Jul 29, 2019),

Seedtick (Jul 29, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 28, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Overhead crane lifting all 81t of Ae 3/5 10205 at the Zürich SBB workshops, 1941.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Aug 9, 2019),

Seedtick (Aug 8, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 10, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Geez. All I'd like is 5-8t over my JigMil, in far less headroom of 15' 6".........deposit smiley of lament here.

----------


## Jon

Road roller. Hungary, 1920.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Aug 18, 2019),

Seedtick (Aug 17, 2019)

----------


## skibo

Ever notice it seems that every guy wore a hat of some type in the early days?

----------

volodar (Aug 18, 2019)

----------


## volodar

> Ever notice it seems that every guy wore a hat of some type in the early days?




Sure do, it´s so very conforming. My wife contends that it was because it was the simplest way of preventing debris, lice, etc. in the days before obsessive daily showers. I think it´s a silly but harmless fashion statement. During a summer job in my early twenties c1960, a supervisor lectured us with ¨a man is not properly dressed without a hat.¨ I knew it was bs even then. I do wear a billed cap when sailing, or cleared to land late afternoon into the sun, or driving a convertible with the top down. Never when not needed, unlike some of my students during class!

----------

Toolmaker51 (Aug 18, 2019)

----------


## mklotz

Up until the latter half of the twentieth century, men's hats were a strong indicator of social status. This article...

https://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/117987.html

provides more detail on the subject.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Aug 18, 2019),

volodar (Aug 18, 2019)

----------


## volodar

The line about hat tipping reminded me of a Scientific American article, early seventies?, about a hat-tipping device patent of years past. Gentlemen could perform a hat-tip by squeezing a rubber bulb in a pants pocket. Airline was routed under back of jacket, along neck, behind ear and into hat. Ridiculous in the extreme, but I think it was granted, year unknown. Drawings showed bowler hats.

----------


## mklotz

> The line about hat tipping reminded me of a Scientific American article, early seventies?, about a hat-tipping device patent of years past. Gentlemen could perform a hat-tip by squeezing a rubber bulb in a pants pocket. Airline was routed under back of jacket, along neck, behind ear and into hat. Ridiculous in the extreme, but I think it was granted, year unknown. Drawings showed bowler hats.



I remember that article. There are a lot of really weird patents out there; thankfully, most of them never made it to production.

----------

volodar (Aug 18, 2019)

----------


## Jon

One example: https://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0&docid=00556248

----------

baja (Aug 20, 2019),

Seedtick (Aug 19, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 18, 2019),

Tule (Aug 20, 2019),

volodar (Aug 18, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Captioned as: "Steam tractor burning some oil."

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 1, 2019),

Seedtick (Aug 30, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Robertson tube straightener. I believe this machine is from around the 1940s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 3, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 1, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

As if I need another project; salvaged a decent amount of wiring from my building. It's been coiled but should be on spools. They were only 110v circuits and look good as new, so will reuse them as such. Goal of respooling is I have a measuring wheel, to avoid pulling what turns up too short.
I have plenty conveyor skate wheels, a length of good sized angle iron, just need to cobble up axles and adjusting screws. 
Any suggestions?

----------


## Frank S

> Robertson tube straightener. I believe this machine is from around the 1940s.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg



My first thought when I saw the guy standing there was he looked like Liam Neeson standing there the resemblance is striking

----------

jackhoying (Sep 2, 2019)

----------


## Big Sexy

> As if I need another project; salvaged a decent amount of wiring from my building. It's been coiled but should be on spools. They were only 110v circuits and look good as new, so will reuse them as such. Goal of respooling is I have a measuring wheel, to avoid pulling what turns up too short.
> I have plenty conveyor skate wheels, a length of good sized angle iron, just need to cobble up axles and adjusting screws. 
> Any suggestions?



Well there a couple of different ways you can do it with less work. First and easiest way is to count the number of loops and multiple by the diameter of the coils. The second is more accurate but does require a decent quality multimeter. You take a resistance measurement of the coil and then determine what size of wire you have. Then look up the known resistance for the size of wire you have. Once you know the resistance per length of wire you then multiply or divide your resistance by the known resistance for length. I think thats how the second is done. Its been a while and would need numbers in front of me to refresh my memory lol. But it is still easily done.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Sep 4, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

I like the multi-meter solution. It will also start screening broken conductors.
1st priority remains building the straightener to respool the wire for storage an eventual use.

----------


## Frank S

> I like the multi-meter solution. It will also start screening broken conductors.
> 1st priority remains building the straightener to respool the wire for storage an eventual use.



Also with the multimeter if you know the length & gage +the ohms the wire should be, if they are off by a large margin it means the wire has been overloaded not fit for installing in a circuit

----------


## mklotz

> Well there a couple of different ways you can do it with less work. First and easiest way is to count the number of loops and multiple by the diameter of the coils. The second is more accurate but does require a decent quality multimeter. You take a resistance measurement of the coil and then determine what size of wire you have. Then look up the known resistance for the size of wire you have. Once you know the resistance per length of wire you then multiply or divide your resistance by the known resistance for length. I think thats how the second is done. Its been a while and would need numbers in front of me to refresh my memory lol. But it is still easily done.



Rather than looking up the resistance/length value for the wire, you'll get better accuracy by measuring resistance of a known length of the subject wire. You'll need a very accurate ohm meter; most are not terribly accurate for measuring small resistances. Very small resistances are normally measured with a current bridge arrangement...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheatstone_bridge

Let:

r = resistance of length l of wire
R = resistance of coil of wire
L = length of coil of wire

then:

r / l = R / L	; assume resistance per unit length is constant over length of wire

or:

L = R / (r / l) = (R / r) * l

Taking the derivative of 'L' wrt to 'r'...

dL = - (R / r^2) * l * dr = - (L / r) * dr

which will allow you to estimate the error in 'L', dL, for a given error in the measurement of 'r', dr.

----------

volodar (Sep 7, 2019)

----------


## Big Sexy

I knew there was a formula out there somewhere. Thx

----------


## Toolmaker51

What great site! I have a decent [?] meter but I suspect not in keeping with Marv's description. 
Solution sounds like to check the coils as they are now; spool them being fed over my measuring machine to know length, and label the resistance results/ length. That should sort failed conductors immediately, and comparing the rest ought to be in a very narrow range. They were only a 110v lighting circuit, 15 60w lamps.
If not good, oh well. Have 13,000 feet of yellow/ brown/ orange for 440v, green/ white/ black for 110v, forgot what is on hand to do 240v, only 2 machines get that.
Again, great site, but its due to the participating members. I appreciate every morsel dispensed of heads up.

----------


## mklotz

> What great site! I have a decent [?] meter but I suspect not in keeping with Marv's description.




The problem with measuring very small resistances is that the resistance of connections becomes so important relative to the resistance one is attempting to measure.

Put your ohmmeter on its lowest scale and, with fingers off the exposed metal on the probes, press the metal tips together. Now, by adjusting the pressure with which you press the tips together, you should be able to change the indicated resistance by a large relative amount. 

Keep this in mind when you make your resistance measurements.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Sep 7, 2019),

volodar (Sep 7, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

I did that with my fingers.
Are resulting figures weight, blood pressure or a grip test?
Sure doesn't appear to be IQ!

----------


## hemmjo

when doing tests like this, where the connection is so important, it is good to use alligator clips. to assure a good connection. I have a short pair of red and black cords with a clip on each end. The teeth cut through any surface corrosion on the wire so you get good consistent readings.

----------


## mklotz

Don't forget that there is another set of connections where the meter test leads connect to the meter itself. These are generally banana plugs so wiping occurs with every insertion.

I'm trying to remember the Wheatstone bridge we used in physics lab at college. I seem to remember screw-down connectors for attaching the unknown but it's been a long time.

----------


## mklotz

Rather than the error-filled minefield of resistance measurements, why not do it with weight? Weigh a small piece, weigh the coil and the math is the same as I indicated above.

Accurate scales are available and, if all fails, you can use a balance scale with measured quantities of water as the balance weights.

----------

jimfols (Sep 7, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 7, 2019)

----------


## jimfols

> Rather than the error-filled minefield of resistance measurements, why not do it with weight? Weigh a small piece, weigh the coil and the math is the same as I indicated above.
> 
> Accurate scales are available and, if all fails, you can use a balance scale with measured quantities of water as the balance weights.



The measured quantities of water is what made me fall in love with the metric system.

----------


## mklotz

> The measured quantities of water is what made me fall in love with the metric system.



Indeed, only an idiocy like the inferial system would have a unit called fluid-OUNCE (caps mine) that is a measure of volume, not weight.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Sep 7, 2019),

volodar (Sep 7, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

I have lost track of what is trying to be accomplished here?

Ralph

----------


## Big Sexy

Which I prefer my first suggested method of counting loops and multiply by the diameter of the loops. Then you can do a ohm test to confirm a length is good to go without breaks.

----------


## mklotz

> Which I prefer my first suggested method of counting loops and multiply by the diameter of the loops. Then you can do a ohm test to confirm a length is good to go without breaks.



And then multiply the result by pi because the length of a loop is the circumference, not the diameter.

----------


## Big Sexy

I meant circumference, thanks for the correction! It was past my bedtime lol.

----------


## Jon

> Ore unloading dock, looking south. Dock, built in 1908, featured two 10-ton-capacity Hulett unloaders (shown here) built by the Wellman-Seaver-Morgan Co. of Cleveland. - Central Furnaces, 2650 Broadway, east bank of Cuyahoga River, Cleveland, Cuyahoga County, OH



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg




More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulett

----------

baja (Sep 28, 2019),

Miloslav (Sep 27, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 27, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Interior detail of main door and north wall of building 390; camera facing northwest. - Mare Island Naval Shipyard, Forge Shop, Railroad Avenue, southwest corner of Railroad Avenue and Twelfth Street, Vallejo, Solano County, CA.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (Oct 12, 2019)

----------


## Jon

1961 J.I. Case steam tractor.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Nov 7, 2019)

----------


## McDesign

Man, how far we've come in 58 years!

Forrest - a '63 model

----------


## Quinton 357

That is a 1920 model sir.

----------


## Jon

> That is a 1920 model sir.



You're right, that's my error. It's a 150, right?

----------


## Quinton 357

Not sure on that. Could even be a 190.

----------


## hemmjo

The steam tractor photo sparked my imagination, which led me to find this interesting reading about one specific steam tractor, and steam tractors in general.

History and rebuilding process
Case Steam tractors, stories, information, engines for sale

Rebuild

Case Steam Tractor;Fuel Bunkers: J.I.Case, 1912 Case, Steam engine, Steam Tractor, Steam farm tractor, Steam traction engine, J.I. Case Company, Steam Threshing, 75 H.P. Steam Tractor, Old Abe Eagle, Case, Iron Men,Steam Tractor Restoration

Video
Case Video

----------


## 12bolts

I find it quite interesting that even with that fair sized hub and all those spokes they still used a style of square drive to get the power to the wheel

----------


## Ralphxyz

Please post the image # yoooooou are referring to! This never ending thread is almost worthless without the image reference.

----------


## Jon

Ingersoll-Rand ER-1 straight line compressor. Circa 1939.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Nov 19, 2019)

----------


## jdurand

Pictures of The Hurtley Loader, patented by a relative. My wife scanned these from original photos.













The inventor and his wife

----------

baja (Nov 19, 2019),

jimfols (Nov 17, 2019),

Jon (Nov 17, 2019),

Seedtick (Nov 18, 2019),

sossol (Nov 17, 2019)

----------


## cmarlow

Nice littlescoop for loading the trams. How was it powered?

----------


## jdurand

> Nice littlescoop for loading the trams. How was it powered?



I didn't see it in a quick scan of the description. Patents sure where sorter back then, mine is a LOT longer after the lawyer spiced it up.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US1481211A/en

Odd thing, the patent expired TODAY!

----------

baja (Nov 19, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> A man-sized machine and a man-sized job are effectively handled by 21-year-old Virginia Grochowski of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Employed by a Midwest supercharger plant, this former hosiery mill worker operates these giant drill presses as expertly as any man. Allis Chalmers Manufacture Company. October 1942.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Dec 23, 2019),

ranald (Dec 23, 2019),

Seedtick (Dec 23, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 23, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Knew that machine tool instantly. NATCO Multi-Spindle Drill Press, common to run 21 spindles. Close spacing would use RH and LH bits for a compact gear train. The head descends to pre-set stops, varied depths accomplished via individual toolholders. Despite ungainly size, an efficient production machine from Indiana.
And believe it or not still sought after.

----------

greyhoundollie (Dec 23, 2019),

Jon (Dec 23, 2019)

----------


## greyhoundollie

I appreciate you input about that machine. Makes some things click in my brain.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Dec 23, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I appreciate you input about that machine. Makes some things click in my brain.



I appreciate that. I don't get too much toolwork in these days, so compensation is in form of historical and topical comments. 
And worst fabricated quips ever.

I noticed between Ms. Grochowski's brace of NATCO's, another woman runs a single spindle on what might be a box jig. Her machine might be an Edlund, Avey, Ettco; doesn't matter. They and others built a tremendous variety based on box column versus round. You've never drilled until you lay hands on such a machine. My favorite are Cleereman, and Fosdick.

----------


## greyhoundollie

LOL Your comments are always great

----------

Toolmaker51 (Dec 23, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Appreciated again . . .I work hard to insure accuracy, or at least good percentage of seasoned experience.

----------


## Jon

> Pump No. 1, Drydock No. 4, Norfolk Navy Yard, Portsmouth, Virginia. June 16th, 1919.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...k_fullsize.jpg

----------

greyhoundollie (Feb 7, 2020),

Seedtick (Feb 6, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Two workers standing on the platform of a crawler-mounted steam shovel excavator, one of the men is operating the levers. The bucket and dipper (dipper stick) are attached to the boom, which is connected to the rotating platform. In the background are railway lines, a large shed and a train engine pulling carriages inscribed with 'Bolsover'.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg



More: https://collections.museumvictoria.com.au/items/2058667

----------

baja (Apr 21, 2020),

cmarlow (Apr 19, 2020),

jimfols (Apr 19, 2020)

----------


## cmarlow

Possibles?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolsover_Colliery_Company

The Victoria Au extra information about the photo says it is
Photograph - Ruston & Hornsby, Crawler-Mounted Steam Shovel, Lincoln, England, 1923
Unknown photographer
Source: Museums Victoria
Public Domain (Licensed as Public Domain Mark)

----------


## Ralphxyz

A true "Steam Shovel" cool.

----------


## suther51

Cmarlow,
"ENGLAND "
That would explain the "odd" looking rail cars (to American eyes)

----------


## Jon

Boring mill machining revolving frame for large excavator. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 1930s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (May 3, 2020),

Rikk (May 2, 2020),

Seedtick (May 2, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (May 3, 2020)

----------


## Rikk

> Boring mill machining revolving frame for large excavator. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 1930s.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg



I am pretty sure I ran nearly that same model mill when I was in my apprenticeship 30 years ago. I THINK it was a G&L.

----------

baja (May 10, 2020),

Jon (May 4, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (May 3, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Bliss Toledo Toggle Press @ CVA/Kearney & Trecker, Brighton, East Sussex,England: about 30ft high, & with a Combined force of 1,090 tons.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (May 10, 2020),

jimfols (May 4, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (May 5, 2020)

----------


## jimfols

'Bliss Toledo Toggle Press' 

That's like over 2 million pounds.

By relative size the prime mover looks like a toy.

Plus the lubrication system is really neat.

Here's a short story about the press.

https://www.mybrightonandhove.org.uk...trial_estate-4

----------

baja (May 10, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Ruston steam-powered excavator.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (May 23, 2020),

jimfols (May 22, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

that poor horse, tho it seems rather husky!

----------


## IntheGroove

A one horsepower wagon...

----------


## Jon

> Donkey puncher at gyppo logging operations, Tillamook County, Oregon.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg



More: https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2017744489/

----------

Andyt (May 26, 2020),

baja (May 26, 2020),

clydeman (May 25, 2020),

Paul Jones (May 26, 2020),

Seedtick (May 25, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

"Donkey puncher at gyppo logging operations." That statement makes perfect sense to someone...

----------


## mklotz

> "Donkey puncher at gyppo logging operations." That statement makes perfect sense to someone...



Another proof of my pet conjecture that the internet can yield the answer to any question that has an answer...

----------

Andyt (May 26, 2020),

will52100 (May 25, 2020)

----------


## Frank S

yes but how does it do when there are answers in search of questions

----------

toeless joe (May 25, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

"that the internet can yield the answer to any question that has an answer" True or not...

----------


## hemmjo

Today I also learned...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyppo_logger

----------


## Paul Jones

I used to live in Oregon and the term gyppo or gypo logger is any logger who is working for a small and independent (usually small family run companies) for logging operations (companies not associated with the larger lumber companies). I doubt there are many of them still operating in Oregon.

----------


## Jon

Cyclotron particle accelerator. August, 1939.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg



More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron

----------

Duke_of_URL (Aug 24, 2020),

nova_robotics (Aug 29, 2020)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Cyclotron, huh? Where are the pedals? [gdr]

----------


## Duke_of_URL

Ah yes, Ernest Lawrence at U.C. Berkeley back in the day.

----------


## jdurand

Modern version heats a cup of tea in 30 seconds to a minute.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Jon

Inside a high-pressure steam drum.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...m_fullsize.jpg

----------


## mlochala

Looks very dusty in there.

----------


## 12bolts

That will be the oxide layer. Steam strips every last molecule of preservative from the surface of the steel. But the hot dry environment prevents corrosion forming. So you just get that thin layer of oxide that forms very quickly when the system is depressurized and moisture forms on the surface. A bit like degreasing steel with acid. If you dont apply something to the surface rust will form in minutes

----------


## hemmjo

Not sure what I am looking at in regard to the steam drum. Is that the inside of something like this?

----------

Toolmaker51 (Oct 7, 2020)

----------


## jdurand

I figured we were looking at the flame chamber and the water was along the sides. ??

----------


## Jon

Steam condenser inside a generating station. 1943.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Jon

> Aveling & Porter Road Roller at Ford Junction Aerodrome, Sussex England. October 22, 1918.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

Fluffle-Valve (Nov 19, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company lathe.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Dec 5, 2020),

marksbug (Dec 6, 2020),

that_other_guy (Dec 17, 2020),

volodar (Dec 6, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

Now that's a tool post grinder...

----------


## hemmjo

There are so many awesome things about that machine it is difficult to choose where to even begin...

I wish there was someone standing close to it for some idea of scale.

----------

cmarlow (Dec 6, 2020)

----------


## cmarlow

Flat belt drive. Somewhere above this is a large power shaft.

----------


## jdurand

I like the pit afterthought for the larger threading change gears.

----------

cmarlow (Dec 6, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

I wonder where it is now??? thats truly awesome. I want it in my tool shed!!!

----------


## Jon

> Flat belt drive. Somewhere above this is a large power shaft.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Dec 8, 2020),

cmarlow (Dec 6, 2020),

that_other_guy (Dec 17, 2020),

volodar (Dec 6, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

tin roofing dies?

----------


## Dry Creek Smithing

I was thinking Coragated Roofing dies as well. I'm not positive though. The size of the dies makes me wonder about something heavier. The next "Lathe" behind shows a new one in begining machining stage. I marvel at the process compared to today's machines.

----------


## marksbug

these days tin dies are about 4" dia, these days we know how to do lots of stuff we knew how to differently long ago.
or they could be machining tires for trains..... :Lol:

----------


## Jon

Contouring lathe with electronic follower. Carnegie-Illinois Steel Corporation. Homestead, PA 1953.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Dec 15, 2020),

jimfols (Dec 13, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 13, 2020),

volodar (Dec 22, 2020)

----------


## 12bolts

> with_electronic_follower



Or thats just the biggest parting tool I've ever seen!

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Or thats just the biggest parting tool I've ever seen!



That observation is not far from reality. The good old day's before CNC...
Expanding the view reveals the tracer pattern, lower left of machinist's feet. The V has an involute-like form, so the stylus is radiused; smaller than where they converge, fillet where they meet parallel sides, and where those meet outer diameter. Many tracers are hydraulic only, depth controlled by crossfeed, first passes 
don't create full contour. In mill profiling the cutter is most often ball end. Lathe work then, works likewise, with a radiused tip bit, either case is to scale of pattern and stylus. Roughing was accomplished by changing stylus or cutter size accordingly, as most patterns were 1:1, but ratios work too. 
Since parting is still profiling, it's not uncommon to chamfer edges with same cutter before depth gets too far along, using the compound. best results are when [you guessed correctly] parting tool has small corner radii and square face.

----------

marksbug (Dec 15, 2020),

volodar (Dec 22, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Reconditioning a 12,000 ton press. United States Steel Corporation. 1944.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## marksbug

nowdays it's almost like everything is disposable... or if it's been there long enough it's replaced with better and old sent to aisa.

----------


## C Tucker

That big lathe looks a lot like the Poreba I used to run once in awhile. Ours wasn't a tracer, but it had a 60 inch chuck and was 40 feet between centers, with 2 saddles.

----------

marksbug (Dec 21, 2020),

volodar (Dec 22, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

that would wear me out just cleaning every night.

----------


## C Tucker

We had one guy that never cleaned up. If he was making a LOT of chips, he always got the gofer guy to scoop chips for him. When I had to follow him, I always wrote the time spent on my card as "clean up after xxxx".

----------


## marksbug

I remember those guys. we did have one machine that stayed covered in cast iron shavings.it pissed off the boss when he saw it ,till I explaned to him that is I leave the shavings there the machine wont rust...if I remove them it will...then I told him I clean it almost every day.as I was cleaning it before every use. when I left there after about 2o years that machine still looked good.a few months lator it was not quite the same..and somewhat. I miss running that shop...well I miss the equipment.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Dec 30, 2020),

volodar (Dec 22, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Roll turner. Carnegie-Illinois Steel Corporation. Homestead, PA. 1936.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------


## marksbug

big beer can manufacturing......time to head for the mountains..

----------


## Jon

Mesta steam-hydraulic forging presses. West Homestead, PA.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...1_fullsize.jpg


Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...2_fullsize.jpg


Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...3_fullsize.jpg

----------


## marksbug

a ground shaker.

----------


## Jon

Open hearth stripper. Carnegie-Illinois Steel Corporation. June, 1945.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------


## McDesign

_Open hearth stripper._

Oh - shoot.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jan 10, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> _Open hearth stripper._
> 
> Oh - shoot.



 :Frown: 

Well, she's a fine hourglass shape.....Hogarth's Line of Beauty.

----------


## marksbug

??? WHAT??? NO TIC TOK DANCE THIS TIME??? IM SO DISAPPOINTED. :Flame:

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Open hearth stripper. Carnegie-Illinois Steel Corporation. June, 1945.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg



In an odd way, this explains equipment and PILES loaded onto adjacent flat bed carts, in the photo rather clearly.
https://steelmillmodelerssupply.com/...ngot-stripper/

----------


## marksbug

a striper with no tic tok. what next? women with brains? :Idea:

----------


## bruce.desertrat

> In an odd way, this explains equipment and PILES loaded onto adjacent flat bed carts, in the photo rather clearly.
> https://steelmillmodelerssupply.com/...ngot-stripper/



I'm honestly constantly amazed at the deep specialization of the hobby world. A store devoted to HO and N scale models of just steel mill equipment. The advent of 3D printers has been revolutionary for this niche.

(all the photos of the actual parts they sell look like they're resin-printed. )

----------

baja (Jan 12, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

where wood we bee with out them.

----------


## Jon

Brass lathe at the McKees Rocks Machine and Erecting Shop. Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad Company. 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

cmarlow (Jan 31, 2021)

----------


## IntheGroove

DC motor and a large rheostat...

----------

cmarlow (Jan 31, 2021)

----------


## Jon

140" mill shears. Carnegie-Illinois Steel Company. Homestead, PA. 1942.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Jan 24, 2021),

ranald (Jan 24, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

I like all the rollers...like snakes sticking their heads up to have a look to see whats for lunch.

----------

volodar (Jan 24, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I like all the rollers...like snakes sticking their heads up to have a look to see whats for lunch.



Interesting too, swivel body casters not plate mounted or ball-transfers. Appears they swivel on each mounting post; and at least one seems to have a coil spring for height adjustment. Unsure how all those were leveled with shear platen, or extent how many we don't see.

----------


## jdurand

Leveling would be fairly easy. Start at machine and work your way back while dragging a piece of sheet metal behind you. If it rolls from where it starts to where you need it, you're done.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jan 24, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Leveling would be fairly easy. Start at machine and work your way back while dragging a piece of sheet metal behind you. If it rolls from where it starts to where you need it, you're done.



Agreed, but still wonder how well it works between big differences of weight and size. 
It does have me re-thinking a ball transfer table [tramming into plane] vs. individual posts, becoming the preference

----------


## Jon

Gyratory crusher. Mesta Machine Company. West Homestead, PA.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

marksbug (Jan 31, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

it looks to be portable....and look at the wood it's mounted to.and all the power transfer gears as well as the belt drive..with a tiny jack&board under it.

----------


## Toolmaker51

Worked around fairly good sized machinery, parts of various sizes, always made the days fly by. 
In a shop or just pictures, the lasting impression I get doesn't hinge on immense parts. It's the tremendous equipment inventory to support it, giant cranes in bigger yet buildings, lay-down yards for material and work-in-process, needing acres and acres of real estate, machines of course, tool rooms, the gear to transport it out after assembly [usually partial]........
Somebody tells me he's in business....."Doing what?" I ask. Always turns out little more than rented office space, cubicle walls, PC's and printers.
Oooohh whoopie-do, am I impressed.  :Headshake:

----------

hemmjo (Feb 1, 2021)

----------


## hemmjo

In regard to #315 , the shear with all of the wheels for sheet positioning... I am always interested in the evolution of the design of things.

I am imagining one of the shop guys (Alex) going to engineering to ask (Bob) about some obscure detail on a drawing. Alex and his coworkers have just finished wrestling a big plate onto the shear. As Alex asks the question, Bob rolls his desk chair across the floor to the wide shallow file drawers (no computers) to retrieve the drawing with his notes. A light goes on in Alex's mind as he watches the casters on Bob's chair adjust to the direction of travel... Fast forward to the next week... All of the office staff come into the office long after the shops guys have been hard at work. All the chairs are 3" (76.2mm :Smile:  lower than before. Someone has stolen the casters from all the chairs... Bob and his friends just smile as they hear the grumbling from the pencil pushers in the office. (the names have been changed to protect the innocent)

From that simple beginning, as ToolMaker mentioned, things evolved from swivel body casters to plate mounted or ball-transfers.

My imagination does wierd things sometimes... lol

----------

Toolmaker51 (Feb 1, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Hearing 'pencil-pusher', I'm immediately offended...
But I enjoy it!
Because it reminds me of that ilk over rides shop floor supervision regarding many improvements and enact methods to write off Tooling/ Prototype variety of work 'overhead' and thereby not profitable.
But it is sooo entertaining to demean them. My favorite quip asks; "so, if we go under, when everything here is on the auction block, which of us leave behind stuff bidders ALWAYS clamor for?"

----------


## Jon

Kendall Gent milling machine.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

Duke_of_URL (Feb 9, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 7, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

look how many Lilliputians you can put on this mill!!! awesome mill!!!

----------


## Toolmaker51

Far too many posers in the way......I'd bet the correct 'brochure' description is 'Planer-Mill'; powered spindles and toolbit holders, essentially lathe-like cross slides. Notice two vertical spindles on the cross-over, and two more side heads, must be 50 hp each. There are two similar machine types. What makes this a planer? The table runs on ways, carrying material. The variation is gantry type, cross-over travels instead, hence Mill-Planer. Then can be a little shorter in length, don't act like having that incredible rigidity of table type. Very first shop, one machine I ran was their 40' Gray Planer-Mill, most power of anything I've handled.
Big as this is, literally a quarter the size of the Ingersoll Planer Mill that was at Long Beach Naval Shipyard. Being on the coastline, insuring it had a solid foundation, the concrete footings were 30' deep. 
I've posted it's pic before, because guess who retains and treasures the auction catalog, not to mention working the entire auction period.
Enough horn honking for now...

PS. Regardless the size of this machine tool, notice it sits on a larger yet floor plate, which had some degree of machine work done beforehand.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> look how many Lilliputians you can put on this mill!!! awesome mill!!!



I get laughs from marksbug's posts, especially those intentionally wacky typo's..........I saw this and immediately read it more emphatic than not just a 'mill' but a _mi-llllll_. Lol

----------

marksbug (Feb 7, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

I try to please...tomany people are too serious all the time and cant see the forest due to the trees. as for me..Im outstanding in my field.

----------

toeless joe (Feb 8, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 7, 2021)

----------


## hemmjo

> ... snip... as for me..Im outstanding in my field.



Would that be a field of clever...

----------

marksbug (Feb 8, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 7, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

I rest my case.......

----------


## Duke_of_URL

"The first order of business at Kendall Gent is that everyone be of uniform stature. Please stand where you are and don't move..."
 :Smile:

----------


## marksbug

hey look nobody plugged it in yet!!HEAR HOLD MY BEER , Ill do it!!! FAMOUS LAST WORDS and thus the Lilliputians were all wiped out with one fast lightning quick drop of a beer. that dam Gulliver.

----------


## Jon

Slotter at the Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad Company. 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

Toolmaker51 (Feb 14, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

File name of full size picture is "McKees Rocks", in semi-disappointment is a Pennsylvania location, not a machine name. Can anyone read the cast in identification found on column, operators right side?
For a member with empty square footage, a slotter of perhaps next size smaller is available in SoCal, I've bookmarked. It's not on my hunt list, just an easy way to find that vendor. I've run shapers and planers, no shop with a slotter. There were however, some in Los Angeles, running in oil field shops, and Naval Shipyard. Their advantage, large sized work pieces, due to throat depth and built in rotary table, simplifies a difficult set up. Gravity and horizontal just go together.

----------


## Jon

Yes, it's a reference to McKees Rocks Machine and Erecting Shop, assumedly a division of the Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad Company. The fullsize image is large, but that's tough to read, even enlarging the page with control-shift-+.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Yes, it's a reference to McKees Rocks Machine and Erecting Shop, assumedly a division of the Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad Company. The fullsize image is large, but that's tough to read, even enlarging the page with control-shift-+.



I shift-controlled enough, like a Fuller Road Ranger into top gear; lap top not epitome of viewing. But thank you sincerely. I bookmark almost every machine maker I run across. But impossible seemingly to grasp how many there were, here and gone.

To think companies would commission photographers in portrait grade work, as a sales tool.....bet no thought of historical value.

----------


## hemmjo

I am wondering if that writing is not in English. Is it possible that monster was shipped here back then? Unfortunately the best focus in the photo is at the turntable. I can clearly see those graduations when the photo is enlarged. The focus falls off as you move back toward the name plate. But I cannot even begin make out any of the characters on the name plate.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Tried my usual tricks (contrast, sharpening, messing with the levels), just not enough pixels back there on the nameplate. We're gonna need a CSI "Enhance" magic tool to see this one :-)

----------


## marksbug

I think .... or russian and it's also in reverse.....

----------


## bruce.desertrat

I thought that for a moment, but the chalk calculations on the pillar next to the slotter indicated that the negative wasn't reversed...I just think that the angle and lighting prevented the existing scan to properly show those details.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I think .... or russian and it's also in reverse.....



Russian? In reverse? How would we tell?

Was a long time before pixels could better represent detail than high quality film stock.

----------

marksbug (Feb 16, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

how wood we tell?? well I reckon the vodka bottle would still be full...
 :Hat Tip:

----------

Toolmaker51 (Feb 16, 2021)

----------


## jdurand

Pretty good chance it's Russian if you see фжяьи and such letters, but a lot is shared with Greek due to good old Saint Cyril.

----------

marksbug (Feb 16, 2021)

----------


## IntheGroove

It's all Greek to me...

----------


## marksbug

> Pretty good chance it's Russian if you see фжяьи and such letters, but a lot is shared with Greek due to good old Saint Cyril.



hmm that gives me an idea!!! :Idea:  Oak island and the 90 foot stone could of been placed by the russians back in 1202... :Smash:

----------


## jdurand

> hmm that gives me an idea!!! Oak island and the 90 foot stone could of been placed by the russians back in 1202...



1202 would have been Kievan Rus or Feudal Rus, the first version of Russia didn't come about until the 1500s. More than you wanted to know.  :Smile:   :Smile: 

Oh, and for Western Politicians and other uninformed people, the Soviet Union СССР (SSSR) ended in the early 1990s...it no longer exists. What is there now is the Russian Federation. Not quite the same animal.

----------

marksbug (Feb 16, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

:Head Scratch:  :Sweating:  :Head Scratch:  :Smash:  :Embarrassed:  crap when did my wife get on hear? :Rimshot:  just kidding.

Ive gotten some nice stuff from russia..well somewhere over there off flebay some nice internal mics like new from about 2mm up to 10mm.I wish i could afford to get more from that guy.he has all kinds of stuff. I also got some american Wix fuel filters...but when they arived..made in Russia...Wix assured me they were made to the same std's.. but also said those are not to be sold in the USA..I got all warm and fuzzy feeling from that. I would think they were at least better than the china stuff. and possibly better than the made in usa stuff.

----------

jdurand (Feb 17, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Axle Lathe. Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad Company. July, 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------


## marksbug

I love the trays under to catch the swarf&chipps!!! just like I do on mine!!!! it makes clean up a breezzee and the machine stays looking like new!!!

----------


## Toolmaker51

Chip trays are a plus. 
Big parts, a lot of chips. 
But not until it's loaded in the machine.
I'll take the jib crane and hoist; that has unique construction.
Practically guaranteed though, none left in existence.

And that shaft hook, it cantilevers with a yoke above shaft, and slings balance from below! 
Does Jon award Tool Of The Week posthumously?

*2. Went back for another gander, 1904 but not a lineshaft shop. The motor drives a cogged belt, with the headstock gearing under or in the lathe bed? The headstock proper IS in the middle, tailstocks and carriages at each end. Chuck is actually a trunnion bearing.
Well worth examining full size. Enhanced maybe, but they still can't improve image beyond what is recorded. Incredible detail.

A slightly newer version; with conventional drive.

----------


## owen moore

That old Putnam lathe was made in the same town where they made the early Iver Johnson firearms.

----------


## NeiljohnUK

Looks more like a single sided chain than a belt, similar to a 'silent' chain.

----------

marksbug (Feb 23, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

the chain of command is always belting out orders.hoist this hoist that. chip get back to work!!! :Embarrassed:  oops rong factory....silent chain of command my butt.it's all single sided..works make parts, the one command makes $$$ keep all these awesome pics coming and stimulating my 3 brain cells!!! or was that simulating?

----------


## Jon

Tapping machine for couplings. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation. 1942.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Jon

Gang drill. Machine and Erecting Shop, Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad Company. July, 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...y_fullsize.jpg

----------

Clockguy (Mar 14, 2021),

jimfols (Mar 7, 2021),

that_other_guy (Mar 18, 2021)

----------


## Ralphxyz

I only see two spindles, one @1-1/2" the other @3/4". Not exactly what I would call gang drilling.

Ralph

----------


## marksbug

spankey and the gang were off the day the pic was taken. :ROFL:

----------


## Jon

Mesta motor-driven slab shear.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------


## IntheGroove

With herringbone gear...

----------


## Toolmaker51

With railcar in background for scale...

----------


## Clockguy

> I only see two spindles, one @1-1/2" the other @3/4". Not exactly what I would call gang drilling.
> 
> Ralph



I can remember back in Sept., 1966, I was ambushed by a gang of VC part way up the Mekong delta ....... and I shot both of them.

I guess it's all in how you see things, eh??

----------

marksbug (Mar 21, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 14, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Seamless hot mill. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation. Aliquippa, Pennsylvania.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Mar 23, 2021),

marksbug (Mar 21, 2021),

nova_robotics (Mar 22, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 21, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

We've a rolling mill here in Kansas City; in there one day, watched them run 8" square tube, about 1/2" wall. I'd swear it went 10 feet per second, if not more. Pulled flat stock from a spool, formed a tall U, closed the top, laying continuous submerged weld on the seam.


Seeing things like this always causes awe; starting with all the capital equipment to build such a plant. And not till after someone built those too.....
What on earth did we do to ourselves?
I have minimal 'respect' for endeavors passing for 'business' today.

----------

marksbug (Mar 21, 2021),

nova_robotics (Mar 22, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

I totaly agree.

----------


## Jon

NACA Hydro-Tel machine. Original caption: "HYDROTEL IN BALDE SECTION OF THE TECHNICAL SERVICES BUILDING TSB". November, 1955.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...1_fullsize.jpg


Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...2_fullsize.jpg


Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...3_fullsize.jpg

----------


## marksbug

were gonna need a bigger shop.....

----------

mwmkravchenko (Mar 30, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Lol. Notice push button panel 11' feet up the ladder? MAN I miss running big machinery. Foot clutches, hand shift gear boxes, and built-in ladders!

In reference to Hydrotels, not certain if that's a machine trademark, retrofit or possibly both. Most Hydrotels are linked with Cincinnati.
Anyway, my trivia bit; Frank Pachmayr [as in trademark Pachmayr pistol grips, many firearms related products, and Los Angeles's coolest store ever], made a huge fortune buying up dirt cheap defense plant Hydro's, to run in new industry of commercial aircraft parts. Everybody else scrimped for individual Friden tape run NC machines, took years to catch up. 
It takes money to make money. Yup. And a fast machine gets worked to death against multiple simple machines with powerful spindles. . .

BTW, next coolest? Weatherby's in South Gate. After that, Frederick's of Hollywood! Lingerie half off  :Clapping: , whoohoo yeah let's go!
Imagine my disappointment, turned out merely a sale. 
Even with side trip to Art's or Jerry's in Studio City for not so compensatory cheesecake. We lived in Lakewood; a truck and cash, heading for LA, returning with anything you needed, wanted or just liked. Angle iron. Engine parts. Machinery. Tool steel. Any Gr8 fastener imaginable. 10" gate valves. Chemicals, solvent, racing fuel. Plexiglass. First rate tools over the frickin counter Indestro, Plvmb, Proto. 
Not any more. 
Lets say 1985, 27 million Californians, 4th largest economy in the WORLD, literally. Now everything has a Cancer Warning sticker. But not 27 million cases, 30 years later!
 :Soapbox:  done.

----------


## cmarlow

What does it do?

----------


## Toolmaker51

Horizontal milling; properly tooled, good at boring too. This particular machine has two spindles, far left of operator, about shoulder height. I'd guess smaller is normal 50 or 60 NMTB taper. The larger could be same taper, yet big spindle; I'd guess for a large facing head. 
Before CNC, which is essentially direct, machines used hydraulics commanded by templates, sequential valving controlled by timers and solenoids, cams instead of lead screws, reducing many human factors. Costs incurred making templates, cams, setting up timing or replacing hoses [ :ROFL: ] were just overhead, incidental compared to value in complicated or numerous parts.

NACA refers to National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics; a United States federal agency founded March 3, 1915, to undertake promote, and institutionalize aeronautical research. I think term Balde Section term is wrong; they had an entire department devoted to wing and blade forms though. . .in advance becoming NASA in 1958.
I had just turned 6.

----------


## Jon

Milwaukee milling machine. Westinghouse Air Brake Company. 1910.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Apr 5, 2021),

marksbug (Apr 4, 2021),

that_other_guy (Apr 10, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 4, 2021)

----------


## tedg53

I have a younger brother of this mill, it has a much longer table and was converted from a horizontal to a vertical mill at some point in its life, as well as switched to 230V single phase. Mine was built in the early 40s and used to make products for the war effort then later used in a plant that produced automotive parts. Love that overbuilt old machinery.

----------

marksbug (Apr 7, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

the navy had some that had a vertical attachment on them too. why buy 2 machines when you can have 2&1.

----------


## Toolmaker51

I have a 2B like it; back in a corner, covered up. It'll run, but it doesn't have motor bracket like that pictured; probably built for a line shaft. It has a low RPM motor ~750 something 3hp in a really large frame, like a 120 hp. Appears care was taken duplicating lineshaft RPM, machine sheave is about 24" diameter, motor about 6". I brought it in for one reason, swivel table, power feeds, 40 taper and a small R8 universal head, it ran, nice condition, cutting oil pump and dual screw. OK, 7 things, I mean 8...It will need a proper guard for that triple sheave belt arrangement. 
I like old iron, if Milwaukee or K&T, all the better.

----------

marksbug (Apr 8, 2021)

----------


## Jon

A Mesta employee machining a section of an engine crankshaft.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Apr 12, 2021),

Ralphxyz (Apr 11, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 11, 2021)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Does the table the guy is standing on revolve? I cannot imagine the engine that crankshaft goes in.

Ralph

----------


## jimfols

I am pretty sure the table rotates and the operator is administered a supply of Dramamine suppositories.  :Lol:

----------

marksbug (Apr 11, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

thats one hell of a motor cycle crank....

----------


## Toolmaker51

> A Mesta employee machining a section of an engine crankshaft.






> Does the table the guy is standing on revolve? I cannot imagine the engine that crankshaft goes in.






> I am pretty sure the table rotates and the operator is administered a supply of Dramamine suppositories.






> thats one hell of a motor cycle crank....



What a coincidence; you're all correct! Though one might not be "quite right".
I scaled him about 5 units tall, chuck at 14 same units. So, if he's 5'5'', about a 12' chuck. Max RPM is maybe 18 or so. Takes really good tool grinding to produce finishes so far out of proportion between diameter - available speeds & feeds. Diameter not done yet, but cheek of crank throw looks good.
Reasoning says its cast or forging, but not turned from a big slug. It would depend whether this is a repair or repeated job.

Just noticed a 'mistake' in photographers framing of shot. If he'd set up a bit farther to right, there'd been daylight between turned diameter and tool-holder under the man's hand.

----------


## marksbug

I was thinken it was 14' turn table but it's probably metric... Iv'e never seen a press together cast crank but I haven't seen it all ..well not yet.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> A Mesta employee machining a section of an engine crankshaft.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg



Some equipment needed to complete assembly of product.


A one track mind; just a day or so back, going on about infrastructure.

----------

marksbug (Apr 12, 2021),

Ralphxyz (Apr 13, 2021)

----------


## Frank S

!920 Betts Machine vertical boring and turning mill 16 foot diameter table 
Betts Machine Co. - 1920 Ad-Betts Machine Co., 16 foot Boring & Turning Mill | VintageMachinery.org

----------

Ralphxyz (Apr 13, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 13, 2021)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Thanks Frank, wish I had room in my shop for one.

Ralph

----------


## Frank S

Ralph I used to have a 60" Bullard with 2 cutter towers just a much smaller version of that one.
I used it to turn the ID and OD of large combination brake/ clutch drums for oil field draw work winches

----------


## marksbug

HMM....OK SEND ME 2 OF THEM...i CAN ADD SEATS AND TAKE THE KIDDIES FOR RIDES. :Hat Tip:  :Popcorn:  :Rimshot:

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Thanks Frank, wish I had room in my shop for one.
> 
> Ralph



Well, could your shop be put ON one? Hooking up power is the challenge...
I ran 8' and 12's building different molds one place, big pump housings in another. The mold shop had straight rams and single toolholders; everything is form tools. Running pump castings, turret in that puppy. Practically had to jump the clutch pedal from the table. 
Supervisor teased me some, but knew I liked that machine. 
"How you gettin' along with the King?" Aaa just fine Roy, I carry 90 dollars in my pocket...He looked puzzled You know, rolls of dimes!

----------


## Frank S

> Well, could your shop be put ON one? Hooking up power is the challenge...
> I ran 8' and 12's building different molds one place, big pump housings in another. The mold shop had straight rams and single toolholders; everything is form tools. Running pump castings, turret in that puppy. Practically had to jump the clutch pedal from the table. 
> Supervisor teased me some, but knew I liked that machine. 
> "How you gettin' along with the King?" Aaa just fine Roy, I carry 90 dollars in my pocket...He looked puzzled You know, rolls of dimes!



$90.00 in dimes is only around 4.5 lbs the same is true for quarters and half dollars unless you were talking about pre 1965 coins then you could add about a half pound in round numbers 
But nickels would be 19.8 lbs 
$90.0 in pennies would rip your pockets weighing in at 49.6 lbs 
Interestingly enough using a roll of coins in your fist to increase your punch a roll of dollar coins add the most weight a roll of half dollars are too large in diameter for most fists maybe not mine but most. A roll of dollar coins the Susan B size that is weighs .893 lbs. but if it breaks you are out 50 bucks.
Quarters will yield and additional half pound of weight to add to your kinetic force 
Nickels would be my coinage of choice still large enough in diameter to reasonably fill most fists and will weigh in at .441 lbs. not a lot less than quarters but only 2 bucks lost when you have to toss them

----------

Toolmaker51 (Apr 14, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Planer. Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad Company. July, 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Apr 18, 2021),

nova_robotics (Apr 19, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 18, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

i wonder how many of these old big machines were repurposed when they became obsolite with newer faster models. kinda like a ex wife, they still need loven....by somebody....or 2 or 3 or 4...my ex has atleast 4 more ex's after me.....please say it wasent me..... :ROFL:  :Rimshot:

----------

mcthistle007 (Apr 19, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

While US had gigantic number of machines, many reduced to scrap. Profilers for example; could do complicated parts, went away as diecasting improved. 
Planers handle work that re-designing still takes same amount of space; now they have milling heads. 
Many went to foreign buyers and still run today. Other machines, like old lathes, went from factories to smaller users.
And no, she said it wasn't you, last time I saw her anyway.

----------

mcthistle007 (Apr 19, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

please dont be #6 !!!

----------


## Toolmaker51

Number 6? 
Shucks NO! That's one melancholy baby. With a head like a melon, and a face like a _ _ _ _ _ _.

https:// 



paste it. only way to hide the surprise, not to mention one fine bridge courtesy o' Pearly.

----------


## marksbug

:Clapping:  :Hat Tip:  :Agree:  :Beer:  :ROFL:

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

I have several very old milling machines including a 1916 Kempsmith for which I have the original manual and test data sheet from January 1916. It has a Cross vertical head attachment. It was all set up with a 3hp single phase drive for the horizontal spindle and 3/4 hp on the vertical spindle. I use that machine more than my Bridgeport, especially since the horizontal spindle gives me power feed in all 3 axis. I paid $231 total for it at an auction, ready to go with overarm support, quite a few cutters and a couple of longer arbors. One of the best deals I've made.

Another is a Kearney and Trecker #2 of similar, possibly older vintage of the mill shown, motorized. I've never set it up yet. 

Another is a turn of the century Cincinnati No 1-1/2 horizontal "cone head" with feeds, yet to be restored. 

I once had (and wish I hadn't traded it for a Bridgeport) a #4H Leblond horizontal mill which had about a 7 foot table, double back geared spindle, feeds from .0025 to 1-3/8 inches per revolution. #12 B&S tapered spindle rebored to #50 milling machine arbors. A real beast, about 12,000 lbs. It was awfully big for my then 2 car garage but now that I have room for it I wish I had it back. It ran a 10 inch insert face mill smoother than a K&T #6CK (huge) horizontal mill I ran occasionally at my "day job" but didn't have enough HP for its size. 

We used the 6CK to cut 1 inch wide half round keyways up to 59 foot long on drilling rig kelly bars, 3 around the bar. We had three matching 8 inch mill vises in a row and could cut 4-1/2 feet at a time, releasing the vises and traversing the table back for the next cut. We could actually cut the entire length and space the 3 keyways around within less than .030" error. Of course we used that big mill for other jobs as well. 

So much for my watchmaking skills!

The spindles on my older mills are Brown and Sharpe Taper. Is the K&T featured a B&S taper?

----------

marksbug (Apr 22, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

wow you can have some fun with those...and even get some work done!!!

----------


## Jon

Steinle Turret lathe at the Westinghouse Air Brake Company. 1910.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

Toolmaker51 (Apr 25, 2021)

----------


## IntheGroove

That's one fast lead screw...

----------


## marksbug

air breaks...it stinks...but oh what a relief it is!!!! :Dance:  :ROFL:

----------


## 12bolts

I wonder if its a fast traverse to move the turret saddle in and out of position?

----------


## marksbug

that works for me...or to make a fast twist or a dam fast threading machine running at warp speed trying to get a starship warp drive up and running so the aliens form another Galaxy dont come down and eat our brains for lunch and have our females for a snack as there moving on to the next star system....to get their pets from the sitter while they were on vacation..... :Popcorn:

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

I think it is a "rapid traverse" screw.

----------


## marksbug

yup,I agree.or making soft serve icecream nozzels

----------


## Jon

Boring mill at the McKees Rocks Machine and Erecting Shop. Pennsylvania, 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

Ralphxyz (May 2, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (May 2, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

This ~60 incher somewhat like my Kansas job; besides straight rams, it was turret and full 6'. Like driving a really big tractor or something!
A lot of feature overlap in verticals, blurring distinct models. IMNSHO due to the space needed, not only machine, loading parts always need consideration. Anyway, logic tells me overlap is a sales pitch. Verticals aren't so rare, but a shop using them often have more than one, ranging in size. Part size (RPM/ FPM ranges) not so broad compared to engine lathes.

----------

marksbug (May 3, 2021),

Ralphxyz (May 3, 2021)

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

General Iron Works in Englewood, Colorado had a vertical boring mill that "swung" 46 feet in diameter. They turned some kind of reactor weldments. They're gone, I don't know where it went after they closed. They also had a "pit lathe" - a horizontal lathe with a large T shaped pit. It would swing 27 feet in diameter at the face plate. Only ran it for a few shifts back in the early 70's, I don't know who made it, might have been "shop built".

----------

marksbug (May 3, 2021),

Ralphxyz (May 3, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (May 3, 2021)

----------


## TheElderBrother

That's not boring at all! Give yourself some credit. That machine looks incredibly exciting!

(Just in case the irony doesn't come across in print, I know what a boring mill is. It's just a Dad joke.)

----------

IntheGroove (May 4, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

It's so "Boring"........yup, Class A Dad joke. Horizontals aren't so exiting, but verticals are; something about mass of chuck and part turning demands a bit extra attention. I like good sized machinery, they'll be biggest I'll ever get to run, so thrill factor always there.
But my favorite Dad joke is this one; by of course MY Dad.....

Brought him in one day for a tour, walked the place; spun up spindles, cycled punch-presses, demonstrated variety of grinders, you know the drill [that one counts too!]. Asked lots of questions, especially Inspection area, surface plates, manual coordinate machines, instruments. They had a big J&L comparator, 30", he wanted to know "why do they have a voting booth?".

----------


## marksbug

the voting booth is to decide on weather somebody want that part or not...
Im reel good at serfacing plates, I just finished dinner and the plate is swarf free.....ok not a dad joke..sorry. my wife did tell my 86 year old mom a joke tonight at dinner.... little johnny was in school when the teacher was going over the male and female body posters she had put up...she then asked for questions after telling the class all men look like this and all females look like this....thats when little johnny took over and tole her she was rong....no johnny this is correct. He then informed her that his daddy had 2 of those!!! she replied thats impossible. he said no my daddy has one he pees through and one that mamma uses to brush her teeth with........ I thought my mom was going to keel over.

----------


## TheElderBrother

I like your Dad.

----------

Toolmaker51 (May 6, 2021)

----------


## hemmjo

[QUOTE=marksbug;180367]... my wife did tell my 86 year old mom a joke tonight at dinner.... /QUOTE]

I like your wife!!

----------


## coleman

There is something so satisfying about huge cogs

----------


## IntheGroove

"There is something so satisfying about huge cogs" 
Especially when they mesh...

----------


## hemmjo

Guessing that is about 5m (men) tall.

----------


## Jon

Thresher Varnish Company. Dayton, Ohio, 1937.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (May 9, 2021),

nova_robotics (May 11, 2021)

----------


## jimfols

414

When I see the word varnish I always think of the brightwork on my sailboats.
Sadly the word polyurethane does not have the same effect.

----------

marksbug (May 9, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

sail boat?? really???? I cant do sail boats, just too slow for me,Ive been on a few kinds fast ones( well the owners said they were fast) I know some people that race them, my crazy sister set a world reckord back in the 90's ,I think it was la to Australia or something like that. she was supposed to do another on the same boat a few years lator, a week before she was to set sail it went up in flames. I used to machine&build engines and maintain lots of ***** boats.I ran a 40' douglass skater,lake X record holder one time just over 150 mph in the bay (blow ninnercooled big block chevy powered x2),I just re worked the top end and it needed test drive...I miss doing that stuff.) I would of pegged you for a motor boat...speed boat guy. but yes I understand the poluyrathane.... VS real bright work.

----------


## IntheGroove

I only use Epifanes...

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I only use Epifanes...



Unquestionably what the character meant saying "I used to run the Gulf in that speedboat's grand-daddy".

----------


## marksbug

THATS GOOD STUFF, THE WIFE SELLS IT. she says it's the best and possiably the only real clear quality varnish left.

----------


## Jon

Aluminum press. Aluminum Company of America. 1950.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (May 16, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (May 16, 2021)

----------


## hemmjo

Are those big gears machined with the chevron shaped teeth? or is that two big gears put together to make one. Very impressive either way, I just have trouble imaging how they would machine the chevron.

----------


## IntheGroove

Machined as one gear...

----------


## hemmjo

Ah, I see they are created in several different ways.... as explained on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herringbone_gear

"A disadvantage of the herringbone gear is that it cannot be cut by simple gear hobbing machines, as the cutter would run into the other half of the gear. Solutions to this have included assembling small gears by stacking two helical gears together, cutting the gears with a central groove to provide clearance, and (particularly in the early days) by casting the gears to an accurate pattern and without further machining. With the older method of fabrication, herringbone gears had a central channel separating the two oppositely-angled courses of teeth. This was necessary to permit the shaving tool to run out of the groove. The development of the Sykes gear shaper made it possible to have continuous teeth with no central gap. Sunderland, also in England, also produced a herringbone cutting machine. The Sykes uses cylindrical guides and round cutters; the Sunderland uses straight guides and rack-type cutters. The W. E. Sykes Co. dissolved in 1983–1984. Since then it has been common practice to obtain an older machine and rebuild it if necessary to create this unique type of gear. Recently, the Bourn and Koch company has developed a CNC-controlled derivation of the W. E. Sykes design called the HDS1600-300. This machine, like the Sykes gear shaper, has the ability to generate a true apex without the need for a clearance groove cut around the gear. This allows the gears to be used in positive displacement pumping applications, as well as power transmission. Helical gears with low weight, accuracy and strength may be 3D printed."

----------

Toolmaker51 (May 16, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

looks like there making the wheels for my racecar!!!! well...I had some that were forged and some that were spun. and some that were ****....I had some CMS wheels on the front of one of my cars...I thought that stood for China Made ****...I was informed those were made in cali.....fornia. I bought them new as I have all my wheels, they were the worst **** Ive ever seen, wobbly as hell, like 2-3mm run out side to side and the bolt pattern wasent even in the center that was off around 2 mm...how the **** can you make **** like that and charge for it???? I put them on my mill squared them up, straightened,recentered the bolt pattern, and added some lightening holes.. they were oh so much better when I finished.

----------


## Jon

Double helical cut tooth mill pinions. Mesta Machine Company.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

marksbug (May 24, 2021),

nova_robotics (May 29, 2021)

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

Mesta built huge presses and stuff which would use gears and other parts this large.

----------


## hemmjo

I get so many questions when I see this BIG old photos; 

Where is the rest of that machine, What did they do with it, How BIG was the machine that cut those gears, There must be some serious structure under that wood floor!! Maybe it is just wood laid over concrete to limit damage if something is dropped. etc 

Interesting markings on the various bearing sections. I always mark things in similar fashion just incase it is possible to put them back together incorrectly. Those marks appear to be for some other purpose.

----------


## marksbug

I saw some types of these under the Leonardo D. engerneering(I think, something like that,motion.somethen ) mustseeum in milan years ago,so awesome. great way to control back lash and thrust at the same time and adjustable too. I saw oh somuch in that dirt floor machine shop with 4 story mustseeum built over it. I even learned how DOM is made there....I had no idea, and no idea that stuff was going on centurys ago.I need to go back for another look for a few years.

----------


## madokie

Herringbone gears,,,i worked in a machine shop in 1998-2002 here in OKC , that had 1934 sydney lathe 20 " swing by 6 ft long bed,all the headstock gears were herringbone,6 speeds, u changed speeds by turning a two handed lever when the spindle was barely rotating,,fastest speed was 300,great lathe that could take a 1/4 inch cut all day ,,till a headstock bearing needed replacing or tightening up, which happened about every 6 months..

----------


## mcthistle007

Yes Good Question,What were they Used for? Where are the Top Caps? Certainly Don't Put Your Fingers Anywhere Near Those Gears When Turning!

----------


## mlochala

It blows my mind to think of how it must have been machining those gears back then, although I don't really know how old this photo is.

Another thing to consider, between the engineer(s) who designed this monstrosity and the machinists that made it, the design and building process has to be so precise to get the backlash correct on those gears. Not sure how you would even adjust that on this machine.

I wonder what it was used for?

----------


## Howder1951

> Yes Good Question,What were they Used for? Where are the Top Caps? Certainly Don't Put Your Fingers Anywhere Near Those Gears When Turning!



Looks like a gears for some large metal rolling equipment. the journals run on solid bearings and I am guessing those puppies will transmit something like 4-5000 HP.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Looks like a gears for some large metal rolling equipment. the journals run on solid bearings and I am guessing those puppies will transmit something like 4-5000 HP.



.......or something very much like rolling equipment. Such operations run best not by spur gearing; hypoids and various helical engagements have what it takes.

----------


## Floradawg

I'm assuming you're in Oklahoma City. I'm gonna get over there one day to see the Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum.

----------


## Floradawg

It's probably just a part of a very large machine that they are supplying. Maybe a propulsion assembly for a ship or unique locomotive vehicle. Who knows?

----------


## Jon

Driving wheel lathe. Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad Company. July, 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (May 30, 2021),

Scotty1 (May 31, 2021)

----------


## jimfols

436

I like the open air electrical switches.

I thought of two operators but there is only one cross slide handle.

----------


## IntheGroove

The motor appears to be DC...

----------


## stillldoinit

I an electrician in the Navy and the ship I was on was 240 volt DC, the main distribution switch board was open knife switches just like what Is on the big lathe. The ship was an old merchant marine converted for amphibious assault transporting marines and their equipment with the boats where the front ramp drops. I hated that ship but gained valuable experience. I cringe when I see old open equipment but it seems people were more careful in their jobs.

----------


## Jon

1000-ton forging press. Puget Sound Naval Shipyard. Kitsap County, WA.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

carloski (Jun 7, 2021),

jimfols (Jun 6, 2021),

mwmkravchenko (Jun 7, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 13, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

wow, what a motor...wonder what that would do to my power bill :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  I know what my wife would do :Smash:  :Martini:  :Smash:  :Soapbox:  :Martini:  :Soapbox:

----------


## Jon

Shaping machine. McKees Rocks Machine and Erecting Shop. Pennsylvania, 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Jun 13, 2021),

nova_robotics (Jun 19, 2021),

that_other_guy (Jun 20, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 13, 2021)

----------


## McDesign

I've heard that "a shaper will make everything but money". Got no experience myself.

----------


## Toolmaker51

That phrase likely coined by contour bandsaw manufacturers. Demise of one, very close to rise of other. Both do things other cannot quite as well.

----------


## Toolmaker51

Not only tremendous size and general facility, but note the floor. World's best industrial surface; wood bricks, they're set on end.
At lower left is what appears to be a drain, probably isn't. It's a cast iron floor plate, near certainty of mounting in front of portable boring mill, large radial drill, or functions as serious assembly table.

----------

nova_robotics (Jun 19, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

oh thsose are just 1/2 boards, thats somebodys diorama dream shop...... :Idea:  entirely too clean, not a scrape on the floor, no wear trails, nutten.no oil stains, no dick stains. cant be real.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> oh thsose are just 1/2 boards, thats somebodys diorama dream shop...... entirely too clean, not a scrape on the floor, no wear trails, nutten.no oil stains, no dick stains. cant be real.



Oh my no, real as can be. Those shops full of Naval personnel [MR = Machinery Repairman] and a few civilian contractors, under the eye of a Naval Officer. I've worked in several. Long Beach, Puget Sound, San Diego, Coronado, Terminal Island [USCG].

----------


## Frank S

I wouldn't go so far as to say too clean by any means.
Expand the picture to its fullest then scroll around there is some small cylinder laying on the floor not too far away from the electric motor mounted on the cast iron bricks Also around the shaper there is some debris as well as the swarth from the last or current shaping project.

----------


## marksbug

yes this diarama is quite detailed even the stuff laying around. I bought a 1 inch tall bridgeport years ago to add to my collection.

----------


## meyer77

Look at all of finger/appendage crushing things exposed, an OSHA mans nightmare!
My brothers friend was partners in a machine shop with a WWll vet in the 70's, One night after some adult beverage had been consumed my brothers friend was riding the ram of a very large shaper like a mechanical bull :Cool:

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Not only tremendous size and general facility, but note the floor. World's best industrial surface; wood bricks, they're set on end.
> At lower left is what appears to be a drain, probably isn't. It's a cast iron floor plate, near certainty of mounting in front of portable boring mill, large radial drill, or functions as serious assembly table.




Seeing photo I referred to wasn't specified by post number, *440, is a clean floor etc as described; not shaper and vicinity in post *442. 
What an error! It never happened before..........but plenty of times since then, lol.

----------


## Jon

Glass ribbon emerging from a tank. PPG Industries. 1940.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...k_fullsize.jpg

----------

cmarlow (Jun 20, 2021),

gom1947 (Jun 30, 2021),

jimfols (Jun 20, 2021),

marksbug (Jun 21, 2021),

nova_robotics (Jun 22, 2021),

Ralphxyz (Jun 22, 2021)

----------


## IntheGroove

Even in black and white that looks red hot...

----------

cmarlow (Jun 20, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Even in black and white that looks red hot...



Clearly . . .

----------


## hemmjo

It does indeed look to be glowing hot. I like how it follows the first rollers, then less and less until it is flat on the last rollers

----------


## Ralphxyz

The rollers look like they maybe glass.

Ralph

----------


## Toolmaker51

Post *452, pic of near molten glass sheet. 
Examining pic again, wondering if they are actually 'rollers' at all. There isn't an apparent pillow block or saddle bearing. 
Might they be just forms that glass moves smoothly over? Seems with travel a bit acute to axis of those forms, would impart something like skiving, to reduce the corrugations. 
Not sure a perpendicular feed would do that.

----------


## marksbug

so what the one above that apparently comes down...are they making corrugated glass sheets???

----------


## Toolmaker51

That would be SOME product Corrugated glass! Haul that into the local window guy "yes, I'd like this little bathroom window re-glazed with THIS" right before whipping it out of the box......
Anyway, I think the wrinkles appear as it slides/ rolls out, almost like making home made pasta, has to be cradled and laid out to dry. Factory wise, the methods are completely automated. 
I'm far behind in google quests; satisfying those (+ me) who want to know.

----------

marksbug (Jun 24, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

JUST THINK OF THE SEALER TO SEAL IT TO A FRAME!!!!! possiably snazzy roof pannels or some decreative stuff.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> JUST THINK OF THE SEALER TO SEAL IT TO A FRAME!!!!! possiably snazzy roof pannels or some decreative stuff.



You, Good Sir, may well be as wacky as I. It's not bad, better than wacko, for sure!

----------


## marksbug

we got off the rong off ramp in texas last week, almost went to wacko. my nagravator was nagavating....

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jun 27, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Installing a 24-inch accumulator in the blooming mill. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation. November, 1952.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Jun 27, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> we got off the rong off ramp in texas last week, almost went to wacko. my nagravator was nagavating....



Hmmm. That may be a Texas thing. Headed for Frank S's place, also happened to me, navigator was mislead by places with similar names. Overshot only 280 miles southwest.

Past 3 years, my forays have all been unaccompanied, someone has to mind the pets. 
In the car, I take a dog, gets whole back seat. I stop for gas, fill one tank and empty two others, he eats when I do, and never wants 6 hours at outlet malls. He loves running all over property at machinery dealer though.

----------

marksbug (Jun 28, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

that makes my wife feel better!!! and she( the nagravator) can now just say it was all the gps...with a smile.

----------


## Jon

Roughing an axle on a journal lathe. Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad Company. 1951.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Jul 4, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 9, 2021)

----------


## 12bolts

They look like old axles being refurbished

----------


## marksbug

I think those may be rough forgings that are being machined.( bar stock with the ends forged for greater strength)...or not.but thats what it looks like to me. or partial machined then some heat treetment then more machining....or....somethin..

----------


## Toolmaker51

Somebody pinch you-know-who....THIS is infrastructure. 

Not day care centers and public murals.

----------


## Jon

42" lathe. Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad Company. Pennsylvania, 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Jul 11, 2021),

marksbug (Jul 11, 2021)

----------


## McDesign

Such attention to detail!

----------


## 12bolts

Not likely to get accidently touched. 42" lathe. That is 7-8 feet from the floor and would require you to lean in over the headstock and feed shaft.

----------


## McDesign

I mean the twin coils are "sexy" - that's an engineering term that means "extra effort was given to make this object aesthetically pleasing".

----------


## NortonDommi

There used to be a fantastic book in the local library called 'Victorian Engineering' and it had many full plate photographs of machines, buildings, bridges, canal locks etc and what always struck me as a young fella was the use of curves, arches and 'unneeded' decoration in all.
Everything seemed to be a work of art tat not only looked right but looked beautiful as well.

----------


## McDesign

I know - I hate how everything in the modern world has been "value-engineered" such that there's no room for beauty. 
The 1880 hand-cranked apple-peeler that we still use is a thing of beauty; many castings, even freakin' hearts in the main gear wheel for spokes. Our modern equivalent looks like it wouldn't last ten years. We've got a cider press as well; heavy iron castings; looks like it will last a thousand years.

----------


## cmarlow

The curves served a purpose. With cast iron being brittle the curves gave just enough give to prevent things from breaking. This was from the moment it was cast because even the cooling process set up stresses. With steel the material is elastic enough you can make everything straight and let the steel take the strain. It might warp but it is unlikely to just snap.

----------


## NeiljohnUK

> I mean the twin coils are "sexy" - that's an engineering term that means "extra effort was given to make this object aesthetically pleasing".



Engineered that way, the 'coils' helped alleviate vibrational stress fracturing and ensured if/when the end did fracture there was enough 'spare' to remake the end.

----------

cmarlow (Jul 12, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 18, 2021)

----------


## Floradawg

Right. Handwheels are usually cast with spokes that are curved so that as the casting cools the spokes don't have stress that can cause them to possibly snap.

----------


## mansworld

The exposed dry gears of the lathe engine is scary!

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

I found two books on eBay, Victorian Engineering by LTC Rolt and Victorian Engineering and Science by Anthony Wilson so I ordered both (used) for $15 and change. I hope one of these is the book you mentioned. I just also found (and ordered) another called "Wonders of Victorian Engineering: An Illustrated E... by Andrews" and another I may 0rder as well.
I also highly recommend reading books on such subjects of The Great Eastern (ship) and the Brooklyn Bridge, two of the most fascinating Victorian era engineering feats I've read up on.
Another fascinating subject is the accurate re-creation of a 150 hp Case steam traction engine by a young man who obtained copies of the original prints from Case and spent a million and a half dollars and thousands of man hours building a replica so accurate that it has some of the same problems as the originals (of which none of the nine originals survive). It is scheduled to be at the Tri-State Antique Engine & Threshers Assn. in Bird City, Kansas from July 29-31 this year. It's a show I've been associated with for decades and I'm really looking forward to seeing that engine run. There are you-tube videos of it. Its HUGE! I understand it to cost over $18,000 to get it there and home! I'm involved mostly in the letterpress print shop and somewhat in the blacksmith shop. I have one of my Linotypes in the print shop which is running (usually) to demonstrate that technology.

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

Exposed gears can be scary if you're careless. As I trained in a couple of lineshaft driven shops I've become accustomed to being around such machinery. One develops a "sixth sense" to avoid moving belts and gears, etc. to work with such "Non OSHA" approved machinery.

----------

mcthistle007 (Jul 18, 2021),

NortonDommi (Jul 27, 2021)

----------


## hemmjo

> The exposed dry gears of the lathe engine is scary!



I do agree that kind of thing can be dangerous, but any reasonable person can clearly see the danger and be smart enough stay away from it. "Back in the day", people were smart enough to not stick their fingers into places were they did not belong. The open gears allowed the operator to monitor the lubrication situation and to reapply when necessary. 

Much more scary to me, today, is that we are afraid of all kinds things for no rational reason. While we have become clueless in regard to things that REALLY put us in peril everyday.



This happened a couple days ago close to me. 
https://www.nbc4i.com/video/i-70-nea...crash/6812187/

Author: 10TV Web Staff
Published: 10:35 PM EDT July 15, 2021
Updated: 6:21 AM EDT July 16, 2021
COLUMBUS, Ohio  Two people and one dog were killed in a crash involving multiple vehicles in east Columbus Thursday night. 
The crash happened just after 10 p.m. on the westbound lanes of Interstate 70 at I-270.
According to Columbus police, *two men in an SUV were fighting over the steering wheel* when their vehicle flipped and flew over the median into a Fed Ex truck. 

In this section of I-70 the concrete median barrier is "only" 3ft high. Perhaps we should lobby to make all barriers 6ft high!!! In an updated report the SUV driver was NOT among the dead. 

Seat Belts, air bags, self driving, lane monitoring and correction, self stopping, sleep alert for drivers; all attempts to keep us safe, are simply making cars more expensive and the world more stupid.

S*** like this happens all the time. Way more often than some idiot sticking his fingers into open gears. Totally innocent hard working person and a defenseless dog, killed by idiots who will go on being stupid, continuing to wreak havoc on the rest of the world.

Don't me started on the truly dangerous behaviors by too many of our leaders *on all sides*. Or the chemicals pumped into our food supply every day. Or the paid off building inspectors who cause whole buildings to collapse with 100's of sleeping people inside or our road way bridges to collapse. 

FAR FEWER deaths and injuries were caused by unshielded gears.

----------

mcthistle007 (Jul 18, 2021),

NortonDommi (Jul 27, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 18, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Main instrument shop room at the Gulf Oil Corporation. 1940.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...m_fullsize.jpg

----------

benkeller3 (Jul 24, 2021),

mcthistle007 (Jul 18, 2021),

mwmkravchenko (Jul 20, 2021),

Paul Jones (Jul 20, 2021)

----------


## mcthistle007

I agree,Stupid has always been stupid and has'nt changed over time.When I started on the land based Oil-Rigs in 1978 in Australia your senses told you Ïf I Go near this or that I'll Die a Horrible Death I'll Suffer Pain Beyond whatever I've felt before"Yes So you kept away and survived and quickly developed senses within you to Stay Alive & Function.The New Breed of Stupid must be so Brainwashed and Drugged numb Well the answers are Obvious.Even Hollwood could never Devise such Stupid Scripts for a Stupid Movie!


This happened a couple days ago close to me. 
https://www.nbc4i.com/video/i-70-nea...crash/6812187/

Author: 10TV Web Staff
Published: 10:35 PM EDT July 15, 2021
Updated: 6:21 AM EDT July 16, 2021
COLUMBUS, Ohio — Two people and one dog were killed in a crash involving multiple vehicles in east Columbus Thursday night. 
The crash happened just after 10 p.m. on the westbound lanes of Interstate 70 at I-270.
According to Columbus police, *two men in an SUV were fighting over the steering wheel* when their vehicle flipped and flew over the median into a Fed Ex truck. 

In this section of I-70 the concrete median barrier is "only" 3ft high. Perhaps we should lobby to make all barriers 6ft high!!! In an updated report the SUV driver was NOT among the dead. 

Seat Belts, air bags, self driving, lane monitoring and correction, self stopping, sleep alert for drivers; all attempts to keep us safe, are simply making cars more expensive and the world more stupid.

S*** like this happens all the time. Way more often than some idiot sticking his fingers into open gears. Totally innocent hard working person and a defenseless dog, killed by idiots who will go on being stupid, continuing to wreak havoc on the rest of the world.

Don't me started on the truly dangerous behaviors by too many of our leaders *on all sides*. Or the chemicals pumped into our food supply every day. Or the paid off building inspectors who cause whole buildings to collapse with 100's of sleeping people inside or our road way bridges to collapse. 

FAR FEWER deaths and injuries were caused by unshielded gears.[/QUOTE]

----------


## Floradawg

Yeah machines and other devices these days are more often attempted to be idiot proof partly, I think because people these days do seem to be more stupid. Another reason is these same people won't take responsibility for their own stupid actions and will litigate for monetary damages. Back in the day they if they lost a finger by being careless they were more likely to say man I sure shouldn't have done that.

----------


## hemmjo

Jon if this is not an appropriate post in the thread, feel free to move it. 

The manufacture of a new weapon in the pre-WWI naval arms race, 1908. 

I have often wished some of these old photos were video. Stumbled onto this old video making large cannon in 1908. There are captions in German. They are below the video the order they appear from bing translate





1) Die Fabrikation einer riesenkanone. —> The manufacture of a giant cannon

2) roheisen, der Hauptbestandteil der Stahlfabrikation —> pig iron, the main component of steel production

3) der Siemens Schmelzofen wird mit Roheisen und spiegeleisen gefuellt zur Stahlgewinnung —> The Siemens melting furnace is joined with pig iron and mirror iron for steel production

4) ein erkalteter Stahlbarren 82000 kilo schwer —> a cooled steel bar weighing 82000 kilos (180779 pounds, 90 tons)

5) giessen eines 20 tons schwerenstahlbarrens. —> casting of a 20 ton heavy steel bar.

6) Der geschuetzlaur unter hydraulischem druck. —> The speed under hydraulic pressure.

7) vor dem härten wird das rohr in ein Ölbassin getaucht. —> before hardening, the pipe is immersed in an oil basin.

8) ausbohren des mantels. —> drilling out the jacket

9) aufwinden des 30, 5cm. 50 kaliberrohrs. —> upwinding the 30,5cm. 50 caliber tubes.

10) auflegen des mantels um das rohr. —> placing the jacket around the tube.

11) Totalansicht der Fabrikräeume die Kanonen auf den Drehbäenken. —> Total view of the factory rooms the cannons on the turning axes.

12) die vollständige Verschlussmechanik oeffnen und schliessen derselben—> open and close the complete closure mechanism of the same

13) Ausprobieren der fertigen 30,5cm. Kanone auf dem schiessgelande—> Try the finished 30,5cm. Cannon on the shooting range

----------

12bolts (Jul 19, 2021),

baja (Jul 20, 2021),

Floradawg (Jul 20, 2021),

Frank S (Jul 19, 2021),

jimfols (Jul 19, 2021),

Jon (Jul 19, 2021),

mwmkravchenko (Jul 20, 2021),

NortonDommi (Jul 27, 2021),

Paul Jones (Jul 20, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 19, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company pickling machine.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Jul 25, 2021),

nova_robotics (Jul 26, 2021)

----------


## Ralphxyz

#487 What is a pickling machine? It looks like a balance except it appears fixed in the center not pivotably.

Ralph

----------


## cmarlow

A crane on a big hydraulic ram so they can pick up baskets of metal parts, swing them around on the ram, and drop them into a vat full of pickling solution. I looks like one basket is soaking and the other basket is sitting empty on blocks.

----------

Ralphxyz (Jul 25, 2021)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Thanks cmarlow!! Now that makes sense, I guess I'll google pickling metal to understand more.

Ralph

----------


## marksbug

I like pickles!!.

----------


## 12bolts

Looking at that image, those arms appear to be at 120*, so maybe a 3rd arm directly behind the ram. And you can just see another wooden bath peeking around the base.

----------

cmarlow (Jul 25, 2021)

----------


## cmarlow

You can actually see the third basket and its chains hanging from the third boom.

----------

12bolts (Jul 25, 2021)

----------


## jdurand

hydraulic as in powered by city water pressure, correct?

----------


## hemmjo

> hydraulic as in powered by city water pressure, correct?



Not sure what this is in reference to? I even looked back a few pages?

----------


## jdurand

> Not sure what this is in reference to? I even looked back a few pages?



The pickling rig, center cylinder lifts up the baskets to rotate to next station. You can see the guy's hand on a valve.

----------


## 12bolts

I doubt theyt would use the town water for that. Just regular hydraulic oil pump

----------


## hemmjo

I fear that water would lead to corrosion, and not provide the lubrication required in machine like that. There is a possibility it could be air over hydraulic. 

Looking at the mechanism for clues got me wondering about the controls. What caught my eye is this vertical bar. It appears to move up and down with the ram. Perhaps actuating that weighted lever to limit downward travel. At the red arrows, the bar appears to be attached solid. The bottom red appears to push that lever down, perhaps stopping travel at a set limit. At the yellow it appears to slide. It must slide down through the base casting into the floor to allow that much travel.

----------

cmarlow (Jul 27, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

no warning signs, no epa approved curbs to retain the spillage..no eye wash station....no protective gear.......looks like heaven!!!

----------


## jdurand

Otis was using water powered elevators in the 1800s

There's still some in use today.

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

It reminds me of three freight elevators we had at our "old plant" we abandoned in 1977 when I built a new plant in Denver for Portadrill manufacturing company (formerly the Winter-Weiss Company) which ran off a block-long section of line shaft. They were installed in 1878! Originally there was a large steam engine that ran five blocks running everything for an early Denver company called McFinnity-McGee company which had a large millworks (wood), paint, glass & mirror works, and everything else imaginable. The company closed down in 1935 and the steam engine removed, and many sections of the line shaft removed for electric motors. I wish I'd been able to see that setup. Those elevators were in three sections of a long narrow building which was originally built in 1868 for the Denver-Pacific RR. The boiler was a 150 hp Kewanee "Portable boiler", meaning that it was a free standing locomotive style return flue boiler, not "bricked in". It was, along with a smaller boiler, used to heat the plant.

At my grandfather's and father's jewelry store near the Capitol building on Broadway they shared a basement with a luggage company, which was accessed with a hand operated freight elevator. A large 1 inch rope ran over about an 8 foot pulley which would lift an amazing load with some reduction gearing The luggage company used it a lot, our family's manufacturing/retail jewelry business had very little use for it. I didn't have much interest in the jewelry business but my much younger brother really has become a fine custom jeweler and has carried on the business my grandfather started in 1919.

As to a water powered elevator I never had anything to do with one but I knew of them. Yes, they were still around and they ran on city water pressure. Water was more plentiful before the city expanded to much. I did have some experience with an old church pipe organ that had a water powered blower! Ordinarily it couldn't be heard in the sanctuary unless a lot of stops were pulled using more wind.

----------

cmarlow (Jul 29, 2021)

----------


## kb4mdz

> I do agree that kind of thing can be dangerous, but any reasonable person can clearly see the danger and be smart enough stay away from it. "Back in the day", people were smart enough to not stick their fingers into places were they did not belong. The open gears allowed the operator to monitor the lubrication situation and to reapply when necessary. 
> 
> ..............................



I don't completely disagree with you about people being 'smart enough to not stick their fingers were they don't belong, but I don't completely agree either. 

Case in point: My Dad, (born 1916) was a hugely intelligent guy, member of Mensa (yeah, he was in the top 2% of the population in terms of IQ), widely read, knowledgable on a wide range of subjects, and very very good with his hands. Carpentry, mechanical, etc.

He spent some time in the early 50's working in lumbermills in Vermont; This was way before OSHA & other such bothers, obviously. One time he was operating a veneer shear in a plywood plant, and had a female partner at the other end of the 8 ft. plus bed to help move the sheets under & away from the huge blade. Operating switch was next to his knee, all he had to do to cut was to flex his leg a bit and the blade would cycle. He had to keep yelling at his partner to not put her hands under the blade to clear out debris. He got tired of that pretty quick, not wanting to take her fingers off. He walked up to the foreman and told her to 'get that dumb cow off my machine before she gets her because of her own stupidity!!' 

Now the real point: He once reached into the middle to pick up a stack of 8 ft long 2x4's coming off a 4 ft diameter circular blade. He heard the blade go 'TING!!' in that way saw blades do. Dropped the stack, looked at his left hand and his middle finger had a small chunk taken out at the last knuckle, on the ring-finger side. Didn't separate the end, just took a divot about 10% across. Finger was saved, but for the rest of his days his middle finger did a little side-track at that joint. Made him giving The Finger an interesting visual. 

Yup. Mensa material. Always safety conscious. And just a moment of lapsed attention marked him forever. 

It's not like dumb people are dumb all the time, and smart people all the time. it's easy to be really really smart and still do dumb things, or have someone else's dumb thing hurt you.

----------

mcthistle007 (Aug 1, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 8, 2021)

----------


## cmarlow

The fingers of my left hand are a bit mangled because of a momentary fit of complacency while working with a table saw. It only takes a moment.

----------

kb4mdz (Jul 29, 2021)

----------


## cmarlow

> I don't completely disagree with you about people being 'smart enough to not stick their fingers were they don't belong, but I don't completely agree either. 
> 
> Case in point: My Dad, (born 1916) was a hugely intelligent guy, member of Mensa (yeah, he was in the top 2% of the population in terms of IQ), widely read, knowledgable on a wide range of subjects, and very very good with his hands. Carpentry, mechanical, etc.
> 
> He spent some time in the early 50's working in lumbermills in Vermont; This was way before OSHA & other such bothers, obviously. One time he was operating a veneer shear in a plywood plant, and had a female partner at the other end of the 8 ft. plus bed to help move the sheets under & away from the huge blade. Operating switch was next to his knee, all he had to do to cut was to flex his leg a bit and the blade would cycle. He had to keep yelling at his partner to not put her hands under the blade to clear out debris. He got tired of that pretty quick, not wanting to take her fingers off. He walked up to the foreman and told her to 'get that dumb cow off my machine before she gets her because of her own stupidity!!' 
> 
> Now the real point: He once reached into the middle to pick up a stack of 8 ft long 2x4's coming off a 4 ft diameter circular blade. He heard the blade go 'TING!!' in that way saw blades do. Dropped the stack, looked at his left hand and his middle finger had a small chunk taken out at the last knuckle, on the ring-finger side. Didn't separate the end, just took a divot about 10% across. Finger was saved, but for the rest of his days his middle finger did a little side-track at that joint. Made him giving The Finger an interesting visual. 
> 
> Yup. Mensa material. Always safety conscious. And just a moment of lapsed attention marked him forever. 
> ...



The fingers of my left hand are a bit mangled because of a momentary fit of complacency while working with a table saw. It only takes a moment.

----------


## hemmjo

I will not argue with any of the previous points. I have also had a few momentary lapses over the years as well. Fortunately I still have all of my parts. But MANY if the rules imposed in the name of safety are out of line. People have come to expect everything to be totally safe. 

Life is not like that, NO NONE gets out of this game alive!!

----------

mcthistle007 (Aug 1, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

I have nothing mangled( except for the wifes car she mangles everything she drives) although I do have some scars...Ive never been tested for mensa, but I probably have it. and dum **** does happen at any body. like hoping on a riding lawnmower that we built a motor for and changed gear ratios so we could have a fast &fun tractor incase a gocart broke or got mangled or stuck....well I hoped on it to have some fun on halloween day 1973...about 20 min after my brother decided to see if it would cut grass...he put a blade on it, never befor had it a blade on it sinc we built it...and no blade gaurd was attached as he got hungry...I was out doing donuts and riding wheelies down the street having a blast...till he ran up yelling and screamning to the top of his lungs...so i stop stuf up and he told me he had put a blade on it...I shut it off and got off and almost half my foot was hanging off my favorite cowboy boots...that effing moron effed up my boots!!!! a few hours lator my foot was reatached works perfectly barley see a scar.but the boot was a gonner. 3 days lator(saturday morning) I was hobbeling on crutches with big heavy cast so the bones could grow back togeather..I was going out to see scooby doo....when I tripoed on the blanket I was raped on( cold in novemeber in northcarolina)and fell on a gitar amp taken apprt by my brother , with a sheet mettel edge sticking up....and a 2 " deep 4" long gash on my ass..... the look on the guys faces at the er at fort brag army base was priceless, same guys that put my foot back on, mom said I better explane it to them. then there was the landing in a pine tree top off a cliff 40" in the air that broke my collar bone....( motor cycle related..brothers motorcycle at that, the chain broke going up), then there was the cressent wrench that the mill tried to stick through my head...ok well that ONE was my fault ,the right hand is in fact faster than the brain...or the left hand. **** happens,nomater how smert you thunk you R. and going to school on a extreamly toxic US government chemical agent orange waste dump in a us government DOD school didnt help things....so I can claim the new wave exscuse's. wasent my fault....well 1 was. always remember **** happens. ( on another note, my brother keeps a field medic kit close to sew on body parts when ever needed to....and has done so many times to him and other including my daughters pet silkie chicken that some critter riped wide open with her guts hanging out, a few months lator she was back to laying eggs and flying. never coukld see any scars under the feathers. many chunks of chicken were missing.they all seemed to of grown back. always be prepared for any thing that may come your way.ANYTHING!!

----------


## cmarlow

I am from a construction background and I would say that every safety regulation in the book was written in blood. Every one of them.

----------

kb4mdz (Aug 19, 2021),

mcthistle007 (Aug 1, 2021)

----------


## cmarlow

Oh Mark's bug! I don't know if I should call you "Lucky" or not.

----------


## marksbug

I being 60 years old,lived around the world, started driving around 6 years old and building stuff too.lots of racing both 2 wheels and drag cars...have never wrecked a car.....too much time , blood and $$ in them to eff up. my machines are kept to look like new also. I built my 24x34 shop&12x16 2 story barn&12x12 toy shop for motorcycle&4 wheeler by my self with the exception of the slabs you should see my tile work!!! I do it all.I cant waste $$ on some moron that dont know what they are doing.( yes I have trust issues)

----------

cmarlow (Jul 29, 2021),

mcthistle007 (Aug 1, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Wheel lathe. Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad Company. April, 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Aug 2, 2021),

marksbug (Aug 2, 2021),

Ralphxyz (Aug 5, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 8, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

some of these pictures make it look like a small machine....very small machine, with big handles & knobs. just think of all the parts to a train and them each being made in batches and then assembled...lots of very heavy parts. and presision made...or else if the wheels were off in dia it would just go in circles like nascar. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  now wouldent that be a sight. nastrain.

----------

cmarlow (Aug 2, 2021)

----------


## cmarlow

> some of these pictures make it look like a small machine....very small machine, with big handles & knobs. just think of all the parts to a train and them each being made in batches and then assembled...lots of very heavy parts. and precision made...or else if the wheels were off in dia it would just go in circles like nascar. now wouldent that be a sight. nastrain.



Yup! Those wheels are for the shunt engines that are being assembled there. You can see a couple of sets on their axles in the upper left of the pic and two locomotives upper right.

----------

marksbug (Aug 2, 2021),

Paul Jones (Aug 7, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Rolling a sheet of liquid glass. PPG Industries. 1940.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

cmarlow (Aug 8, 2021),

jimfols (Aug 8, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 8, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

I wonder how much different it is nowdays?

----------


## hemmjo

> I wonder how much different it is nowdays?



Unfortunately, that would be a Chinese man working there... I found this in regard to glass production.

"China is the biggest flat glass producer in the world. In 2013, the total flat glass production in China reached 780 million containers, according to an industry report."

----------

marksbug (Aug 8, 2021)

----------


## Ralphxyz

That must be some hot work, I am surprised he is able to stand there without even gloves.

Ralph

----------


## cmarlow

It looks like he is blowing compressed air at it. Does anybody know why?

----------


## marksbug

that settels it.Ill never buy glass again!!! :ROFL:  made in china....

----------


## old kodger

> It looks like he is blowing compressed air at it. Does anybody know why?



I'm not sure in this instant, but I do know that to make toughened glass they heat it and quickly cool the surface which makes the outside shrink causing a tension In the plate, which is why, if you try to cut toughened glass it will shatter because you've released the tension in a local area.

----------

jimfols (Aug 10, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

released the tension in a local area. can be a good thing and a bad thing...and some times a wonderful thing especially with the right help.

----------


## Unkle Fuzzy

Flat glass is almost exclusively "Float Glass" now.

Developed in the 50's, glass is molten on the surface of a pool of lead, tin, or other fairly low melt point metal, and drawn off as an extrusion.

----------

cmarlow (Aug 13, 2021),

jimfols (Aug 13, 2021)

----------


## barrysworld

Very large tooling sheets. Ship bow plate etc, requiring extreme tensil strength.

----------


## Ralphxyz

Ship bow plate made from Float glass?? #521 

Ralph

----------


## McDesign

The front fell off!

----------


## cmarlow

Is 2,000 F the temperature of the glass or is the temperature of the tin, because it seems awfully hot for tin. 
I think 2,000 F is the temperature of the glass when it starts to flow over the tin and it when gets pulled off at the end it has dropped below 1,200F and solidified. Unfortunately I have no idea of what temperature the tin is held.

----------


## cmarlow

> The front fell off!



It fell into the ocean, clearly.

----------


## Jon

Low type lever shear. Mesta Machine Company. 1905-1925.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

carloski (Aug 22, 2021),

jimfols (Aug 15, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 21, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

wow what a chomper!!!

----------


## IntheGroove

On its way to get a crank and rods...

----------


## Ralphxyz

Wonder how long that 4" x 4" holds up?

Ralph

----------


## Toolmaker51

Typical MESTA sized product; rail-car shown for scale.

----------

Paul Jones (Sep 4, 2021)

----------


## old kodger

> Typical MESTA sized product; rail-car shown for scale.



No Doubt it's big, but don't rule out the relative perspective of distance.

----------


## hemmjo

In regard to original post # 527;

There are indeed a few rail cars in the distance, but, there is also a railcar UNDER the shear. Only that shear sitting on a flat bed rail car. 

It is a pretty large shear.

----------


## Jon

Planer at the McKees Rocks Machine and Erecting Shop. McKees Rocks, Pennsylvania. 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

mwmkravchenko (Aug 23, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Takes me back...to the 70's anyway. Ran a 30' Gray gantry planer. Talk about working carefully, a week of planing, then a mistake could be 30 feet long. 
Also ran a 8' Rockford. Talk about working carefully; you know the rest.

----------

mwmkravchenko (Aug 23, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company ship shaft department.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Aug 29, 2021),

Ralphxyz (Aug 29, 2021)

----------


## IntheGroove

The big shear on the right...

----------

Toolmaker51 (Aug 29, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Good call! If not same, then another; many similarities. Talk about scale, Geez Louise.

----------


## cmarlow

The little wee tiny guy standing on the lathe.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

When your tool post is as big as you are...you _might_ be a Mesta worker...

----------


## Jon

Wheel press. Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad Company. July, 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Sep 5, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 5, 2021)

----------


## jimfols

541
Reckon that's white lead being used to press those wheels?

----------


## 12bolts

#541 I wonder what they were keeping count of?

----------


## hemmjo

> Reckon that's white lead being used to press those wheels?



I remember a yellow 1/2pint can of white lead we were taught to use for lubrication on the dead center on the lathe tailstock in 8th or 9th grade shop class. It is a wonder any of us are still alive all stuff we did.

----------


## old kodger

> I remember a yellow 1/2pint can of white lead we were taught to use for lubrication on the dead center on the lathe tailstock in 8th or 9th grade shop class. It is a wonder any of us are still alive all stuff we did.



I painted 20ltrs of lead based paint on the deck of my boat, by hand with a paint brush yeh, I'm still here, also, like I suspect MANY other mechanics did in the sixties, removed brake drums and blew asbestos dust all over the workshop. If asbestos is the cause of mesothelioma. I should have died yeas ago. I'm convinced that most of this is disinformation designed to cover up something else. Suggested, but unprovable was the info that "they" could not surveil through asbestos. Well they clearly could not tell everybody to remove the asbestos from their rooves so that they could spy on you so they dreamed up a fear campaign to get folks to do it voluntarily.

----------


## cmarlow

If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself when I was younger.

----------


## old kodger

> If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself when I was younger.



I did take better care of myself, and to date have outlived all of my family with the exception of my sister who is 5 years younger than I.

----------


## marksbug

I got AFU by the us government building a DOD 6-8 grade school on top if a toxic agent orange dump site 4 years befor I went to school there....then the slicing for$$ drs ****ed me up worse. nothing I did has ever afected me....aflected? well I do have a slight issue with racing..and horsepower...or the need for speed.& P

----------

cmarlow (Sep 7, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 6, 2021)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

> I painted 20ltrs of lead based paint on the deck of my boat, by hand with a paint brush yeh, I'm still here, also, like I suspect MANY other mechanics did in the sixties, removed brake drums and blew asbestos dust all over the workshop. If asbestos is the cause of mesothelioma. I should have died yeas ago. I'm convinced that most of this is disinformation designed to cover up something else. Suggested, but unprovable was the info that "they" could not surveil through asbestos. Well they clearly could not tell everybody to remove the asbestos from their rooves so that they could spy on you so they dreamed up a fear campaign to get folks to do it voluntarily.



Lead paint, _when fresh_ isn't very toxic, unless you're drinking it. The dangers with lead paint are primarily to the workers making it (the huge number of workers getting lead poisoning in paint manufacturing in the early part of the 20th century were the impetus for the first workplace exposure regulations. The other end of the pain life-cycle is the other danger point: when it is old and crumbling and gets turned into stuff you can ingest or inhale. 

Asbestos is proven to be a cause of mesothelioma, probably the primary one, but all cancer is a matter of odds. 

Consider spraying out those brake drums playing a game of russian roulette with a 10,000 round chamber. You could go for your entire life without catching the loaded one; but the more you spin that chamber, the more likely you'll catch the loaded one. This is why the createst number of cases are in miners and shipbuilders working with the stuff day-in and day-out. 

And like the lead paint, the other end of the use, as old, crumbling insulation, roofing and siding is the most dangerous, because then you're being exposed any time you're in the house.

Even a 10,000 round chamber's gonna land on a live round sooner in that scenario.

----------

cmarlow (Sep 7, 2021),

FEM2008 (Sep 26, 2021),

jimfols (Sep 6, 2021),

lavern s (Sep 7, 2021),

mcthistle007 (Sep 6, 2021)

----------


## NeiljohnUK

> also, like I suspect MANY other mechanics did in the sixties, removed brake drums and blew asbestos dust all over the workshop. If asbestos is the cause of mesothelioma. I should have died yeas ago.



Asbestos related diseases are much more than mesothelioma, and whilst brake dust (ground down asbestos plus the binding gripping resins that actually do the braking, asbestos being a high heat 'carrier') had the potential to cause it, it was much lower risk compared to raw asbestos or the fibrous asbestos used in insulation. My father who worked for Ferodo in the 50's was thought to have ingested asbestos and ended up with an asbestos gut cancer, which was successfully removed but not before it had micro-metastasized (or a tiny fraction got into his blood stream during the operation to remove it), he lived another 30 years before the now in his brain encapsulated tumour caused him to collapse. When removed the tumour was fist sized, and although he was starting to recover the 'old mans friend' (hospital acquired pneumonia) finished him off. 

In the UK we have/had an asbestos related death compensation scheme, however it only applied to lung cancers/mesothelioma, so we were unable to claim any compensation for him or his funeral.

How many more tradesmen were exposed to asbestos by ingestion is unknown, but the practice of chewing 'Rawlplastic' rollable asbestos to dampen it before inserting it into holes when hanging shelves etc is thought to have contributed to the high asbestos related death toll amongst builders and other building related trades.

----------

bruce.desertrat (Sep 7, 2021),

cmarlow (Sep 7, 2021),

HobieDave (Sep 7, 2021),

jimfols (Sep 7, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 7, 2021)

----------


## jimfols

Being in the US, I had to search for 'Rawlplastic'.
I see that though now being made of plastic, they are still called 'Rawl' plugs.
Very interesting post, thank you.

----------

bruce.desertrat (Sep 8, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 7, 2021)

----------


## old kodger

I had a friend who died of mesothelioma and i found it fascinating that although the asbestos was inhaled the meso was OUTSIDE her lungs in the pleural space. Now the last time I looked, the lungs were airtight, so how did an asbestos fiber, much bigger than an air molecule get to be there?

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Mesothelioma is _defined_ as cancer of the tissues lining our organs; most commonly the pleural space around the lungs. Asbestos fibers can travel through the aveoli into surrounding tissues; in fact this is the reason it causes both mesothelioma and asbestosis, which is the mechanical scarring of lung tissues by inhaled asbestos fibers.

https://www.cancer.org/cancer/malign...k-factors.html

----------

lavern s (Sep 7, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 8, 2021)

----------


## Jon

> Engine No. 10 at the Distribution Department, Arlington Pumping Station. Arlington, Mass., Apr. 7, 1908.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg

----------

marksbug (Sep 12, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 12, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company saw. 1905-1925.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

cmarlow (Sep 19, 2021),

jimfols (Sep 19, 2021)

----------


## IntheGroove

Do you think that sharpener automatically advances or does someone have to move the blade and lock it in place...

----------


## cmarlow

I am looking for something to give me a sense of scale and all I can see are the cabinet doors. I am guessing the blade to be about 4 foot diameter. I wonder how far wrong I might be.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

> I am looking for something to give me a sense of scale and all I can see are the cabinet doors. I am guessing the blade to be about 4 foot diameter. I wonder how far wrong I might be.



This is Mesta...it could be 40 ft :-)

----------

cmarlow (Sep 22, 2021),

jimfols (Sep 19, 2021)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

> Do you think that sharpener automatically advances or does someone have to move the blade and lock it in place...




I think it is automatic; can't think of another reason for all the linkages behind it.

----------


## old kodger

> This is Mesta...it could be 40 ft :-)



In which case, that would be one hell of a cabinet

----------

cmarlow (Sep 26, 2021)

----------


## 12bolts

Based on the size of their equipment its probably where they store their spanners

----------


## Isambard

It appears as if 62" was the biggest diameter for solid blades, bigger were of the inserted variety. The motor on a 36" blade was 50 hp so they got to be big machines.
I think your estimate to be about right, at 4'.

----------

cmarlow (Sep 26, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Gang drill. Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad Company. July, 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

cmarlow (Sep 26, 2021),

jimfols (Sep 26, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 28, 2021)

----------


## Isambard

Bement, Miles & Co of Philadelphia, machine.

----------


## marksbug

i wonder what the gang was drilling working on the railroad all the live long day. ...perhaps a tick tok's grand maws grand maws? :Rimshot:

----------


## cmarlow

There are 3 rods and two arms on the horses in front of the drill table and one more of the arms still sitting on the drill table. Anybody have any idea of what they were for?
Also, I see a pretty impressive set of change gears on top of those drills, almost like the back gear setup on a lathe. Are they to control the feed speed of the drill?

----------


## Isambard

Due to long term renovations, storage is chaotic. Man alone does not help. :-(
Anyway, tracked down a Bement cat that I have of era and the following is the
specs of the machine above:

Two-Spindle Locomotive Connecting Rod Drilling Machine:
Designed for drilling at one time both ends of locomotive connecting and parallel rods.
Distance between centers 10 feet max - 3 feet min.
Power - Will drill 3-1/2" hole in solid material and bore a 9 inch hole. *IMPRESSIVE!*
Spindles are independently driven, having *4 speeds, & 3 feeds* through a distance of 15-1/2",
Quick return motion, lever counterbalance and lateral adjustment on cross-slide by
rack & pinion.
Each spindle is adjustable vertically. two lube pumps.
Countershafts & spanners thrown in.

----------

12bolts (Sep 30, 2021),

cmarlow (Sep 30, 2021)

----------


## cmarlow

> Distance between centers 10 feet max - 3 feet min.



I look at these picture and my sense of scale is destroyed.

----------


## Jon

1959 Milwaukee-Matic II, the first machine with a tool changer.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...I_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Oct 3, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 3, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> 1959 Milwaukee-Matic II, the first machine with a tool changer.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...I_fullsize.jpg



And a small apartment...or large closet.

----------


## Jon

Forging a 110-ton ingot at the Homestead Steel Works of the Carnegie-Illinois Steel Corporation. April, 1952.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Oct 10, 2021),

nova_robotics (Oct 11, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 11, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

so..where do you buy a ingot that size, I wasthinking on whittleing out a entire car from one.

----------

cmarlow (Oct 10, 2021)

----------


## cmarlow

That is a pretty big bicycle chain they got.

----------


## hemmjo

> so..where do you buy a ingot that size, I wasthinking on whittleing out a entire car from one.



The more important question, actually 2 questions. 1, what do you haul it home with? 2, how do you keep it HOT on the way home?

----------

cmarlow (Oct 10, 2021)

----------


## cmarlow

> ....2, how do you keep it HOT on the way home?



110 tons, It is going to take a while to cool off. and just remember, 1/2 hr delivery or the ingot is free.

----------

bruce.desertrat (Oct 11, 2021),

marksbug (Oct 10, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

I have a heat gun & chizzell ready to go.crap I need a bigger hammer.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Just coincidentally I ran across this vid showing this process now 

 some very impressive vehicles

----------

cmarlow (Oct 11, 2021),

Floradawg (Oct 17, 2021),

jimfols (Oct 11, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 11, 2021),

volodar (Oct 11, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Not to mention among two staged settings, one guy in a cap working, compared to half a dozen standing around, 30' away in hardhats....

----------


## Jon

Wheel and axle machine. Carnegie-Illinois Steel Corporation. McKees Rocks, Pennsylvania. July, 1948.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Oct 17, 2021)

----------


## jimfols

579 

Nice safety squints.

----------


## Toolmaker51

Run a few vertical lathes, never saw one with such low clearance between ways and chuck. 
Every wheel set I've been around were paired on axles and turned simultaneously. 
Never-the-less, a very limited work envelope, rail-wheels and maybe bowls from turbine water pumps. Good for their business, perhaps slightly lower cost, but far lower resale value.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Better rigidity, too; this is a specialized machine to crank out wheels. I don't expect resale value was ever accounted into the system; this was designed to be used to make wheels until it was scrapped. 

This isn't what a railroad shop would install; they'd want to ensure that the wheels were properly concentric to each other, but if you're making hundreds or thousands of wheels to ship out this is the machine you would use...notice the stack of blanks waiting alongside

----------

Toolmaker51 (Oct 20, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Better rigidity, too; this is a specialized machine <snipped>.....notice the stack of blanks waiting alongside



And the cute little hex wrench, securing wheel to fixture. 
I'll bet there is some kind of key driving it!

----------


## Isambard

Actually, companies like Sellars, Niles etc made those specifically for railways. With a fixed crosshead, they were made to machine both wheels & tires.
Wheels had to be machines prior to pressing on axles...

----------


## Jon

Wire mesh machine. American Steel & Wire Co. Donora Works. Donora, PA. 1915-1917.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Oct 24, 2021),

nova_robotics (Oct 29, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Clearing trimmer in raised position. Wyman-Gordon Company, Grafton Plant. Worcester County, Massachusetts.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Toolmaker51

Notice it's surrounded by floor plates; most of the operating gear and immense concrete foundation. What isn't below, of course is above, such as cylinders above ram, and ladder on right side. Guessing this press rated at 1500 ton, not sure dieset makes, but these presses and larger very prevalent in the auto industry.

----------


## Isambard

Going by the model #, it is a 3000 ton x 20' between columns.

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

The drive chains in lieu of belts were practical non slip at high torque. Some of those motors only turned 600 rpm. I had one on an old Warner and Swasey turret lathe. It was only 3 hp but was huge. I've also worked with machines that had leather gears on motors running against iron gears. These usually had brass ends with many layers of leather between. These motors appear to be 3 phase, and the open knife switch to the other side of the motor is 3 pole. Fuse size seem to be for low (220) volt rating. Also note the adjustable eccentric on the gear shaft on the opposite side has broken ways on the left side, the farthest travel setting. I've owned two shapers, still have a 20 inch Steptoe , set up to cut internal keyways. I wish I had one of the Gould and Eberhart 24 inch that I used in the past. They made fine machines with herringbone gears and were very smooth cutting machines. I once recut a 19 inch bevel gear on one. They made a 60 inch draw cut shaper but I never saw one. But I ramble...

----------

IntheGroove (Oct 31, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 2, 2021)

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

Love your photo of "The Little Giant" - Ismabard Kindgom Brunel. What a Victorian engineering genius!

----------


## Isambard

My Hero! "It cannot be done." Never, ever, crossed his lips.
I live with PMA: "There are no problems, only solutions."

----------


## Jon

Blacksmith shop at the Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad Company. March, 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...p_fullsize.jpg

----------

Philip Davies (Nov 9, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 7, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Cripes! I wonder where all the steam hammers, anvils and implements are today  :Frown:

----------


## Isambard

As regards the 60" draw-cut shaper, I think your memory is playing tricks... Morton
were the US draw-cut specialists and made a 60" DC shaper as did Butler of the UK.
Butler's was just on 39 tons and 14.5' high. The ram had both boring and milling capability.
If I can clear my desk I'll scan some pix.

----------


## Isambard

Back in the '80s I knocked on the door of Vickers in Barrow in Furness, UK, and asked if 
I could come in for a look. They told me to go away! :-(
Anyway a friendly security guard advised me to apply for permission, which I did, and
apparently after vetting by MI6, a week later, Head office London, extended an invitation! :-)
Anyway on my "grand tour" of the establishment, conducted by no less than the head draftsman, 
I visited the Blacksmith shop, A building of similar size to the above, but very organized.
Both opposing walls consisted of at least ten heating furnaces each with an attendant swing crane
and a steam hammer.
On that day, only two were operational, forging the breech lump on the end of what to be 155mm
howitzer barrels, Vickers had an order of 100 for the Italian Army.
Later I saw them boring the ends of the trailing arms of the carriages, and when I commented that
they appeared fabricated out of SS, the reply was: If you're over $1million per, you wouldn't want them to rust! :-)
BTB At that time, they were installing a new VMC with a capacity of 16' cube. £16 million.

----------

NortonDommi (Nov 23, 2021)

----------


## Ed Weldon

Those of you who might get to Ely, Nevada. There is an old shortline mining railroad (the Nevada Northern) there that runs steam excursion trains in the summer. If you catch them in the off season and things are quiet there see, if you can get over their machine shop and talk sweet to the shop boss. Maybe he will let you get into the dark recesses of the engine house where there is hidden an ancient railroad blacksmith shop. Give me some encouragement and I'll try to share my photos of it illuminated by a late August afternoon sun some 20 years ago.
Ed Weldon

----------

bruce.desertrat (Nov 9, 2021),

cmarlow (Nov 9, 2021),

Philip Davies (Nov 9, 2021)

----------


## mcthistle007

Oh Thank You That would be "Vely Interesting" and Better than watching a Horror Sc-Fi Movie from lifetimes ago when I was a Kid.

----------


## marksbug

so...when well we have to stop calling these black smith shops.. and just....the smithy shop...or...steel pounders....or...

----------

jimfols (Nov 12, 2021),

NortonDommi (Nov 23, 2021)

----------


## cmarlow

> so...when well we have to stop calling these black smith shops.. and just....the smithy shop...or...steel pounders....or...



or "the forgery"?

----------


## marksbug

thats too much like a occupation that may land you in the pokie. or like uttering a forged instrument ,pisssttton. :Smash:

----------

cmarlow (Nov 12, 2021)

----------


## Isambard

Why? "The term blacksmith derives from iron, formerly called “black metal,” Blacksmiths existed long before any exports out of Africa.

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company pickling machine.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...2_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Jon

Large planer. Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad Company. April, 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

mwmkravchenko (Nov 23, 2021)

----------


## TrickieDickie

appears to be a machine in use there in the background

----------


## IntheGroove

And I can hear the operator to left of that "Ok a little bit to starboard, wait , port, now full steam ahead!"...

----------


## Toolmaker51

Roughly size I ran a couple years, 30' and 40'. Any table length requires twice that of bed and ways, but that's why they did such fine work. None of that potential table sag or binding ways of lesser machines, or concentrated wear. 
While planers technically operate as 'single point' machines, they have reasonable feed rates, of course lost some time on return stroke. Worked out beneficial on certain kinds of parts, such as weather stripping molds, wing spars, machine skids, and tables of smaller machine tools. 
Examine the foot of a large radial drill, I've seen tool marks that indicate planing and scarf milling, both easy work for a planer. 
Scarfing of that variety employs a slightly tilted spindle and turning cutter. They step cuts over a bit more than cutter diameter, leaving shallow grooves with narrow lands between, accomplishing part of what scraping does. 
Overall, planers did reliable work on parts with very long but small profiled features. Also remains maybe best at undercutting, where an endmill or other rotating cutter just can't enter. 

I often wonder how many remain in operation. Extrusion has taken over what long compression molds did, with far more compact machine footprint and tooling.

----------

NortonDommi (Nov 23, 2021)

----------


## cmarlow

On the lintel (head) beam it says Plane Field N.J. but there is a shaft blocking my view of the manufacturer's name. Does anybody know who would have built this in Plain Field N.J. more than a century ago?

----------


## Isambard

That would the Pond Machine Tool Company.

----------


## marksbug

I wonder when they went under

----------

jimfols (Nov 24, 2021)

----------


## Isambard

The company didn't go under, it was merged with the Niles Tool Works of Hamilton, Oh, and the Bement, Miles Co of Philadelphia, August 15, 1899, to form the Niles, Bement, Pond Co. Pratt & Whitney becoming another division in 1901.

----------

marksbug (Nov 24, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

thanks but you tottaly missed...it zinged right over your head... "pond"& "went under" oh well I tried.I better find a day job...

----------


## Isambard

Do ponds go under? Boats, people, ice-skaters, companies go under...
A pond could go down the gurgler/drain, if a sinkhole appeared perhaps...
Yeah, I think ya right, a new day job is in order. :-)

----------


## marksbug

well,I used to think like you, till the wife and I went camping, we did some driving around the 3 rivers( they all converge neer the camp ground, with lots of gators in it) well we went over a few bridges and all around ended up kinda aacross the river from the campground... we went into a restraunt got a snack& drinks then saw a map on the wall, witch was awesome as I could see if there was a shorter route back to the camp.. well there was. dang neer straight shot across the lake/river/reservoir... but I dident see any bridge... then I saw the foot notes " submerged road" witch ran along the submerged pond!!! holly bat **** there was a submerged pond under that lake/reservoir full of alligators!!!! it was the highlight of my week. I often wonder if there are any alligators in that submerged pond...or just around it... so apparently a pond can infact go under.

----------

cmarlow (Nov 25, 2021)

----------


## Isambard

Well, the South has always had a well-known propensity toward exaggeration, 
Samuel Clemens made a very good living at documenting it, with, of course,
suitable embellishments...

----------


## cmarlow

> That would the Pond Machine Tool Company.



Thank you. I looked up the Pond Machine Tool Co. and it turned into an interesting read because of the mergers that followed it.

----------


## IntheGroove

a pool,or a pond...

----------


## Jon

Press drill. Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad Company. McKees Rocks, PA. November, 1903.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Isambard

LOL! I think, somehow 2 images have merged...That is not a horizontal drill.

----------

cmarlow (Dec 11, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

kinda like a ship in a bottle...

----------


## Jon

Wheel boring at the Wheel and Axle Division of the Carnegie-Illinois Steel Corporation. August, 1950.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Toolmaker51

re Post *620......
Interestingly configured machine, unlike any known to me, outside IIRC a 'Nicholson' rotary mill.(?). This somewhat more correctly a 'lathe' than a common VBL that traverses over centerline on gantry like ways. The quill carries spindle, suspended by counterweight, in a rise/ fall headstock. Normally the 'headstock' is rough positioning, quill for feed rate. 
I don't see evident means of traverse, though yoke on right side suggests that axis, equaling a cross slide. The rest of it fairly conventional, clutch pedals, shift levers, pinion driven table etc.
Properly fixtured and clamped, this work of boring would be accomplished quickly.
With an eye on production, and sufficient capital, custom built machine tools were commissioned more often than realized. That very same specialization though makes seeing one a rarity.

----------

cmarlow (Dec 11, 2021)

----------


## cmarlow

I was thinking the yoke thing with the chain on it looked more like a small crane for putting the wheels in position to be bored. Or are we looking at a different part of the machine?

----------


## Isambard

Chances are that it was built by Newton Machine tool Works of Phil. Specifically made as a Wheel Boring Machine in various sizes determined by the wheel diameter capacity. NMT specialized in single purpose machine tools.

Here's the modern version, hardly changed in principle.

----------

cmarlow (Dec 11, 2021),

nova_robotics (Dec 13, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I was thinking the yoke thing with the chain on it looked more like a small crane for putting the wheels in position to be bored. Or are we looking at a different part of the machine?



Potentially and logically a crane yes. It's perspective is misleading, examination says it could be long enough to reach centerline, making aforementioned fixturing all the more effective, not tying up overhead crane, forklift etc. Hanging ~900 pounds from center isn't such a small crane for manual handling; there is a spool of chain at the end.

----------

cmarlow (Dec 11, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Tensile machine in the South 40 Area. NASA, 1966.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...a_fullsize.jpg

----------


## marksbug

remember you only win if the shell is broken off and the nut is not harmed.

----------


## NeiljohnUK

Mechanical deflection measuring ring, used several like that on smaller machines we built, converted most to strain-gauge rings as easier to calibrate load-cells, spent several years rebuilding load-cells at Lloyd Instruments, often using recovered stress beams that I straightened and annealed, many making 0.5 grade after doing so with beam that had only barely made 2% grade before. Got to be a dab hand at eraser balancing the strain gauges too. With have similar 4 lead screw monsters in our civils lab here.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Mechanical deflection measuring ring, used several like that on smaller machines we built, converted most to strain-gauge rings as easier to calibrate load-cells, spent several years rebuilding load-cells at Lloyd Instruments, often using recovered stress beams that I straightened and annealed, many making 0.5 grade after doing so with beam that had only barely made 2% grade before. Got to be *a dab hand at eraser balancing* the strain gauges too. With have similar 4 lead screw monsters in our civils lab here.



It must be the horizon vs flat earth debate going on elsewhere on HMT.org...LOL............that phrase _will not Google!_. Breakdown please? We're still trying to integrate 'bit of kit', 'grub screw' 'damp squib' and my personal campaign to sub 'lurgy' for plandemic.
Good News; 'make out' been etched in stone for ages, both usages.

----------


## NeiljohnUK

A 'dab hand' means I got quite good at, 'eraser balancing' is using a hard rubber ink eraser, as one might have used at school between the chalk board and computer era's, to gently remove metal from the strain gauges to bring the bridge into perfect balance before interfacing with any electronic zero correction which could introduce errors and potentially reduce span and spot accuracy across the load cells range. This was often an issue with new load cell beams with new strain gauges that had drifted/shifted zero during the mounting bond bake process, due to lack of annealing prior to mounting the strain gauges the beam would often relax slightly and shift the zero, even at quite low heat some thinner beams for low range cells would change even if they had been annealed, a kind of black art much like RF can be.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Dec 14, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Must say, that beats my level of laboratory experience hands down. I remember those ink erasers and the barely abrasive quality they had. 
I've done hard fits with "Cratex"™, abrasives bonded in rubber like matrix, especially diesets and odd tooling.

----------


## old kodger

I want to know does the giggling pin have to be in proximity to the chuckle shaft when the guffau pressure is applied to the laughing sensor?

----------


## Floradawg

Ummmmm, yeah, I think so.

----------


## Jon

Threading couplings. Seamless Tube Department at the Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporations Aliquippa Works. 1942.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

Sleykin (Dec 27, 2021)

----------


## hemmjo

There is so much going on here. Fascinating to imagine all of the thought and hard work that went into making all of the industry that build our society, and how easily it is lost.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Dec 27, 2021)

----------


## TrickieDickie

that is a big ass tap

----------


## marksbug

I musta missed the ass tap.

----------


## Isambard

That's a collapsible tap, Landis make up them to 12 inch pipe size.
I have a BSA (UK) catalog of 1952, that lists sizes up to 14"! That would take some serious HP!

----------


## Jon

Anvil forging. Bethlehem Steel Corporation. September, 1948.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg

----------


## old kodger

I see that it's nearly time for morning tea.

----------


## tedg53

Any idea which plant is shown in the picture?
I live in Pottstown, PA, there used to be a Bethlehem Steel plant here where pieces for the Golden Gate Bridge were fabricated.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> There is so much going on here. Fascinating to imagine all of the thought and hard work that went into making all of the industry that build our society, and how easily it is lost.
> 
> Attachment 41333



As I posted elsewhere, it was not lost.
It was not surrendered. 
It was not outmoded.
It was given away.

----------

Frank S (Dec 27, 2021),

master of none (Mar 23, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Boring mill. Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad Company. July, 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Jan 2, 2022),

schuylergrace (Jan 5, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 2, 2022)

----------


## Isambard

That's a Betts Horizontal Boring Machine. Betts Machine Co. of Wilmington, Del. 
It looks like Manning, Maxwell & Moore supplied it.

----------


## Toolmaker51

re post * 642;
Boring mill yes, but quite small. In this photo, not set up for boring, that is a 'trip wheel facing head' mounted on the spindle. The 3 pronged "T" is tripped into partial rotation as it swings arc, turning the lead screw, barely visible inside the base [looks like a drill press vise]. 
The machine itself is larger yet, this housing is mounted on a accessory table to provide X axis across spindle. farther down is driving end of a Morse Taper line boring rig; and isn't that the planer in the background from several posts back?



Here is a larger model from Giddings & Lewis, fits a 3" boring mill. 5-star and 1/2-13 thread lead screw; results in 0.0153 per revolution from 0.0769 thread pitch/ 5. Changing lead screw alters pitch, after consideration of part size, tool bit radius [or form], material and rigidity of setup. The tool block holds a conventional square bit, presenting it right or left hand, or angular position for shoulder or undercut. That's when attention level has to be 101%, stopping rotation properly, compared with unobstructed facing work.

PS, edit. Looking at the post, it struck me what's transpired historically; between that tool, almost 100 years old, and taking it's picture with a telephone....

----------

bruce.desertrat (Jan 3, 2022),

Jon (Jan 3, 2022),

marksbug (Jan 2, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

yup the telephone brings a little perspective to Eveolution.

----------


## Isambard

Not wishing to be pedantic, but Betts like others called it a boring machine,
the term boring mill relating to those of the vertical persuasion...

BTW Did anyone pickup on the dog's breakfast of the work-piece setup?

----------


## hemmjo

I had to look up "pedantic". I try to learn something new every day. I always do visiting here.

----------


## Jon

Mesta bar mill.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

Ralphxyz (Jan 9, 2022)

----------


## Jon

10,000-ton forging press. Homestead Steel Works. 1890s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Jan 17, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

*10,000-ton forging press. Homestead Steel Works. 1890s.*
Not awfully different from the press at Long Beach Naval Shipyard; despite promotion as property in one of US largest ever auctions, availability, fully operative condition and incredibly low price it went unsold and scrapped. 

That set of conditions dovetails tightly with response found in post *641. That lamentation is somewhat past-tense, worse now than even possible before.

----------

nova_robotics (Jan 17, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Wire mesh machine. Donora, PA. 1915-1917.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

carloski (Jan 30, 2022),

jimfols (Jan 23, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 23, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Wow, all that feed and assembly mechanism, while maintaining wire under tension; lineshaft driven.

----------


## Jon

Puddling furnace. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation. November, 1886.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Feb 1, 2022),

marksbug (Feb 1, 2022),

nova_robotics (Feb 4, 2022)

----------


## hemmjo

I had never heard of a Puddling furnace before this.

----------


## mcthistle007

Come on I give up What on Gods Earth is a Puddleing Furnace??? and I'm not keen to guess.

----------


## NeiljohnUK

An explanation: https://www.revolutionaryplayers.org...dling-furnace/

More information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puddling_(metallurgy)

Henry Cort lived ~ 500 Yards from my home, and I was a governor of the school my son's attended named in his honour!

----------

jimfols (Feb 1, 2022),

marksbug (Feb 1, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 6, 2022)

----------


## Isambard

I had a closer look and that mesh is spot welded! Lots of transformers there.

----------


## jimfols

> An explanation: https://www.revolutionaryplayers.org...dling-furnace/
> 
> More information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puddling_(metallurgy)
> 
> Henry Cort lived ~ 500 Yards from my home, and I was a governor of the school my son's attended named in his honour!



Thanks for posting this.

This from the Wikipedia page: Puddling was never able to be automated because the puddler had to sense when the balls had "come to nature". 

Quite a few years ago I purchased the book "Sloss Furnaces and the rise of the Birmingham District".
It was nice to dig the book out again and reread the parts I had glossed over about Puddling.

----------


## marksbug

Big hot balls of iron. thats pertty neet, and to be able to figure that out was a true stroke of a genius. and Eveolution continues.

----------


## Jon

Plate leveler. United States Steel Corporation. 1935.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg

----------

Toolmaker51 (Feb 6, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

MESTA= Incredible. Looked it up, exactly that.

----------


## Jon

Steam roller.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Feb 14, 2022),

Rangi (Feb 14, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 14, 2022)

----------


## jimfols

662

These days the wimps want an air conditioned cab.

----------


## Toolmaker51

re *662.
Unknown basis, but I dug rollers as a kid. First seen may have been nearly this 'mechanical' and therefore interesting. 
Flattening bejeebers out of stuff might have part of that too.

But the name remains "Steam Roller".

----------

cmarlow (Feb 14, 2022)

----------


## Isambard

Never saw a one in steam, work, but it was quite common to see them re-powered with a Ford tractor engine, right up to the early 60s...
The were generally much larger, with a full-length roof.

----------


## Frank S

> 662
> 
> These days the wimps want an air conditioned cab.



That and the project engineers insist on having laser guidance, enviro-nazis demand tier 4 emissions, OSHA throws their hat in the ring as well. All the while the hapless operator just wants to flatten things with his big heavy machine

----------


## jdurand

What I never understood is why you'd want to roll steam. Oats, yes, but not steam.

 :Smile:   :Smile:   :Smile:   :Smile:

----------


## IntheGroove

Buster...

----------

cmarlow (Feb 15, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 20, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Mesta roller leveller. U.S. Steel Homestead Works.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------


## 12bolts

Looks like Keebler wasnt very popular  :Lol:

----------


## Toolmaker51

......or _very_ popular.

----------


## Jon

140" crew at shears. Carnegie-Illinois Steel Company. Homestead, PA. March, 1942.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Feb 27, 2022),

Ralphxyz (Feb 27, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 27, 2022)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Would not want to get my finger stuck in there. The sheet they are doing looks like 11/2 - 2". Amazing they appear to be doing lineup by eye.

Ralph

----------


## Jon

Coil preparation line. Tin Plate Department of the Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporations Aliquippa Works. March, 1952.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Toolmaker51

'Coil Preparation' tells me this isn't paying out to feed punch presses or such equipment, it's actually rolling coils for shipment. When you see one or two coil loaded on a flat bed, you get a good idea what those weigh. 
I've sure as heck never seen three at a time, in fact 2 must be so close to max, nothing else added to round up LTL (less than load).

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

I retired, some years ago, from a coil coater plant, where we coated coils of mostly aluminum but some galvalume (steel) both sides with baked enamel finish. This meant some incredible tension to keep the metal suspended for nearly 150 feet from the paint coating rollers through four ovens to a hot water quench before wound onto the exit arbors. This happened in could widths from about 25 inches to 36-1/2 inches and up to 200 feet per minute. Those aluminum coils weighed anywhere from 3500 to 7500 pounds, so sometimes 6 coils could be shipped in one semi load. Often the coils were slit to desired widths and cut to desire lengths, mostly made into various building projects such as siding, window frames or rain gutters. The steel rolls weighed up to 10,000 pounds, give or take, so 3-4 coils made a "truckload". I don't know how these rolls compared to the rolls in the photo being, probably, uncoiled, I'm just giving this for comparison or conjecture.

----------

that_other_guy (Mar 9, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 7, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

no they are making tin plates, it says so. tin plate dept. :Smash:   :Idea:  they lay also make tin cups for golfers. and possiably pan handlers as well as pan handles. but thats another dept. :Headshake:  :Hat Tip:

----------

Floradawg (Mar 9, 2022)

----------


## hemmjo

I am curious what this guy is doing. He was moving during the shot, but there appears to be a guard in the way. 
It also looks like he is close to the "break station" with a hot plate, coffee pot, a cup and some paper bags for ... donuts?

----------


## jimfols

Coil preparation line


This fellow does not seem to have much interest in anything.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Coil preparation line
> 
> 
> This fellow does not seem to have much interest in anything.



Next day he did, when it was pasted on managers office wall.

----------


## old kodger

Maybe he's a "tweeker", somebody who's job is to tweek the machine when something looks like it might start to go awry. If nothing needs tweeking he has nothing to do but keep watch.
My previous wife worked in a factory making shipping tags (in the days when they used such things), pretty much all of the machine operators constantly tweeked the machines which saved the maintenance crews having to shut down lines to correct the catastrophes which would have otherwise occurred.
Or he might just be a lazy bastard.

----------


## Jon

40-foot boring mill. Homestead, PA. 1968.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

marksbug (Mar 13, 2022),

nova_robotics (Mar 21, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 14, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company 46-inch slabbing mill and reversing engines.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Mar 21, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

as clean as it is thi must be before pluging it in. :Hat Tip:

----------


## TrickieDickie

see the size of those two nuts behind the guy in the white shirt

----------


## jimfols

'see the size of those two nuts behind the guy in the white shirt '

You should see the size of the nuts on the guy that tightened them.

----------

Floradawg (Mar 22, 2022),

Inflight (Mar 21, 2022),

marksbug (Mar 21, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 23, 2022)

----------


## hemmjo

> see the size of those two nuts behind the guy in the white shirt



I want to see the wrench!!!!

----------


## marksbug

yes lets see the wench that takes care of the guy with the big nuts!!

----------

Floradawg (Mar 22, 2022),

jimfols (Mar 22, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Doesn't this seem a lot of guys waiting for a nut shot?

I'm wound up regarding the flooring of wood bricks.

----------


## Isambard

One of these with 12' of pipe?

----------


## hemmjo

[QUOTE=Isambard;200087 One of these with 12' of pipe?[/QUOTE]

would not want to drop that on your foot!!!

----------


## marksbug

not looking for the nuts, just the wench that takes care of them.

----------


## Toolmaker51

Aren't we all?

----------

marksbug (Mar 24, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

there are many nuts in this world, most dont need to be seen.but the wenches...oh somany different sizes and shapes.

----------


## Toolmaker51

And......a best use of metric - imperial conversion. No adapter required.

----------


## Jon

Electric motor for cold finishing. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation's Cold Finished Products Department.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Mar 27, 2022),

marksbug (Mar 27, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

what a pair of motors!! and the small face plate in the back ground too.

----------


## Ralphxyz

I whish I knew what cold finishing means. Those motors and the gearbox looks like they could do a number on what ever they processed.

Ralph

----------


## marksbug

I think it's machine finishing.unlike forging&casting hot then cold machine, finish machine...well thats what my head says.

----------


## hemmjo

> I whish I knew what cold finishing means. Those motors and the gearbox looks like they could do a number on what ever they processed.
> 
> Ralph



This is what it means.  -->Link

----------

jimfols (Mar 27, 2022),

lavern s (Mar 28, 2022)

----------


## jimfols

696

I like the little ship's wheel. Lower right in photo.

----------


## Jon

Mesta double helical gear planer.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Apr 3, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

I saw some of those in Italy made from wood .under a Museum in the dirt where they have been for probably a few hundrad years....or more.

----------


## Isambard

Here's another view of the same machine.Plus an even bigger gear.

----------

Jon (Apr 3, 2022)

----------


## jimfols

702

I don't think the bolts next to the shaft are holding much.

----------


## Isambard

Chances are they were patterns for casting the gears, was common.

----------


## Isambard

What bolts? What pic?

----------


## marksbug

those are for adjusting back lash.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> 702
> 
> I don't think the bolts next to the shaft are holding much.



No, but they identify as fully qualified fasteners...

All that engineering and manufacturing; get a load of the counterweight to lower left of indexer, incredible sophistication.

----------


## jimfols

> No, but they identify as fully qualified fasteners...
> 
> All that engineering and manufacturing; get a load of the counterweight to lower left of indexer, incredible sophistication.





These are the bolts I was thinking about.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Attachment 42394
> 
> These are the bolts I was thinking about.



Me too...as sketchy the rationale of, well you know.

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company roll lathe. September, 1906.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...3_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Apr 10, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Unusual machine. Guessing the diameter could have been turned elsewhere. 
Carriage looks clamped to bed and cross slides feed in directly. Appears the opposite forming roll is being test fit. This would corrugate serious material. *26 and *24 gauge rolls for roofing aren't half that size.

----------


## Isambard

It looks like a set of reducing rolls to me, as the material makes a pass through each section of the roll, toward the right, it gets thinner & wider...Possibly...

----------


## hemmjo

They do not look like steel to me. Does the color suggest they might be aluminum? Compared with what I assume is the steel bearing surface of the shaft sticking out the right side. They cannot go much closer together as those 4 rings appear to be as deep as they can go into the grooves already.

----------


## marksbug

those are ghost bolts for when the hole is bigger then the shaft and bubba forgot to put in a key way.

----------

cmarlow (Apr 18, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> those are ghost bolts for when the hole is bigger then the shaft and bubba forgot to put in a key way.



In CA there is a drag racing team named "Fingertight". One can guess how that was picked. 
Knowing how to contact them, I'd send marksbug quip, asking what torque they apply to ghost bolts. If they replied "what size", I'd say "this big".
There I go again, LoL'ing myself silly.

----------

cmarlow (Apr 18, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

thattel doo. my elbo clicked. hmm....fingertight racing in drag. :ROFL:  when we were promod&top sportsman racing about 10 years back (paradise racing) we just called our selvs CFR chicken ****er racing. I dont have a clue where it came from but it stuck.just buddies screweing around I presume. then one day at brainerd for the season opener another big rig pulled in...CFR, they parked next to us...just another day at the races...well 4 days. we just went to have fun for the most part...well we were not there for the NHRA race but we ran it any way we were there for the quick 8 race witch we usualy won or took 2nd.those were more fun as you could really turn the car up and fly as thats what the other guys were doing,not just trying to get points. that car is out west somehwere still flying,I saw it about 2 years ago on utube under 60 foot monster, and that it was for sure. never should of let that car go, the next one wasent my favorite.

----------

cmarlow (Apr 18, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Nickeson Shaft machinery. Vesta No. 4 mine. California, Pennsylvania.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...y_fullsize.jpg

----------

Bullet500 (Apr 19, 2022),

jimfols (Apr 17, 2022),

nova_robotics (Apr 23, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 17, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

can you throw that in my truck :Lol:

----------


## hemmjo

> can you throw that in my truck



Sure can, if you want your truck to look like this!!!

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Sure can, if you want your truck to look like this!!!



Of course not. Load goes in truck BED!

----------


## marksbug

hmm I kinda like it. but somebody stole the tires.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> hmm I kinda like it. but somebody stole the tires.



Not really. Removed for your safety; afterall, they were flat...

----------

marksbug (Apr 18, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

eye sea says the blind man...or blond woman.hard to tell since im blind.and blond

----------


## Jon

Double helical gear planer in the gear cutting department of Mesta Machine Company.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Apr 24, 2022),

marksbug (Apr 24, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 24, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Sorry marksbug; no can do. Besides, your truck is still full, _and_ flat tires.

----------


## Rikk

> Double helical gear planer in the gear cutting department of Mesta Machine Company.



I'd love to see that machine in operation.

----------


## Jon

Rolling plates at 72" mill. Homestead Steel Works. Homestead, PA. 1920-1930.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (May 1, 2022),

taylordtools (May 30, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

now thats a messa steel rollers... or is this the scooter factory.

----------


## 12bolts

This is where those 1 wonky shopping trolley wheels go for re-alignment

----------


## Jon

Ross carrier. Homestead Steel Works. February, 1963.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

clydeman (May 9, 2022),

jimfols (May 8, 2022),

marksbug (May 15, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Press drill in the McKees Rocks Machine and Erecting Shop. November, 1903.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

Duke_of_URL (May 16, 2022),

jimfols (May 15, 2022),

marksbug (May 15, 2022),

nova_robotics (May 16, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

Im sure when the guy using a hand brace drill saw this it gave him a rock hard erection also.

----------


## marksbug

traffic? what traffic.

----------


## Toolmaker51

re* 733 Running I'd guess a solid tap holder? 
Someone will look at this and cry about no chip shield.
K. 
Check out the open knife switches on the base... or the open chain drive.

----------


## marksbug

back then shields and warrning labels weren't needed. people were smarter back then.with some uncommon cents that seem to of been bread out of oh somany people somehow. I blame it on the dinosaurs dyeing off.

----------


## 12bolts

And the exposed terminals on the motor case.
Looks like the apprentice forgot to pull the pin on the back gear at some stage too. Broken tooth there at 5 o'clock

----------

marksbug (May 15, 2022)

----------


## IntheGroove

That's a DC motor. Chance of shock is very low...

----------

marksbug (May 15, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

well **** !! 12 BOLT CAN TELL WHAT TIME THE TOOTH BROKE!!! hell I cant even see the dam clock!!!

----------


## 12bolts

Beer o'clock. **** always happens at beer o'clock

----------


## neilbourjaily

Long before OSHA made tools "safe" for idiots. Tools, especially rotating tools, are dangerous and should be viewed that way.

----------


## marksbug

I wonder just when osha will start cutting off fingers so the morons wont poke their own eye out..... like labels on car batterys.do not drink... hears a good one, my new gm roadster(AKA 2 seater) says to put baby in the rear .......ok so I locked my babys in the trunk....it has a safety pull if they need out.... again you can not fix stupid. hears a reall good one, pontaic solstice, saturn sky,daewoo x2 and opal speedster had recall child seat airbag sensors... the fix that the NHTSA told gm they could do was a short strip of duct tape and try to tape the sensor togeather....witch lasted 20 times being used, then the owner is on the hook for over $1000 us. it seems the NHTSA got a pay off from GM to do this patchwork. if it cant be made to work with dict tape then and only then they will put the new upgraded tottaly different sensor in the vehicle...it's made in china not mexico. the ductape is supposed to hold togeather the oh so thin copper strip ribbon...that cant be fixed. again you cant fix stupid or scammers or payoff schemes.

----------

baja (May 22, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (May 16, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Machining a steel wheel. Wheel and Axle division of Homestead Steel Works. April, 1962.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (May 22, 2022),

nova_robotics (May 23, 2022)

----------


## Jon

44-inch blooming mill engine room. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation. Aliquippa, Pennsylvania. January, 1952.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...m_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (May 29, 2022),

nova_robotics (May 30, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (May 29, 2022)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

The scale of these things just always amazes me...those nuts in the foreground are are bigger than those workers' heads...

----------


## jimfols

> The scale of these things just always amazes me...those nuts in the foreground are are bigger than those workers' heads...



I was thinking the same thing when I saw these wrenches.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> The scale of these things just always amazes me...those nuts in the foreground are are bigger than those workers' heads...



And then impossible not imagining the machine that threaded them. Or the mill rolling the initial hexagonal bar.

----------


## IntheGroove

Jon, find us the big nut maker...

----------


## Frank S

Making large diameter threads is not much of a task. I've made both internal and external 18" diameter threads 4 TPI on a 16" gap bed lathe using a homemade 20 inch diameter face plate instead of a chuck to take advantage of more of the gap Obviously not hex stock. One of the strangest threads for me at least was when I made a 3 start 8 TPI thread full length on a 4inch diameter bar and the nuts to go with it.
For those who don't know doing a 3 start *TPI thread you only make the cuts as deep as if you were doing a 24TPI but you must be precisely 120° between starts

----------


## Isambard

"For those who don't know doing a 3 start *TPI thread you only make the cuts as deep as if you were doing a 24TPI but you must be precisely 120° between starts"

Memory fade Frank?
Thread depth is as normal. However the lathe must be capable of thread cutting at 1/3 of the tpi. i.e 3 start 12 TPI would cut at 4 TPI.

----------

jimfols (Jun 3, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Making large diameter threads is not much of a task. I've made both internal and external 18" diameter threads 4 TPI on a 16" gap bed lathe using a homemade 20 inch diameter face plate instead of a chuck to take advantage of more of the gap Obviously not hex stock. One of the strangest threads for me at least was when I made a 3 start 8 TPI thread full length on a 4inch diameter bar and the nuts to go with it.
> For those who don't know doing a 3 start *TPI thread you only make the cuts as deep as if you were doing a 24TPI but you must be precisely 120° between starts



All the more reason to have a degree wheel, or degree tape prepared in advance; it'd be utterly correct to have a vernier or some means to locate quadrants accurately. Something tells me a Pi tape (easily determines .001 -.0005 accurately) and a fine tipped pointer is just the ticket. Not much reason beyond 2-3 and 4's.

----------

Frank S (Jun 3, 2022)

----------


## old kodger

I recently had to go the other way and produce a 2tpi mandrel 50mm in diameter to make a coil in 10mm stainless tube

----------


## Toolmaker51

10mm stainless? Coil? 50mm x 2 TPI?
It's OK, you can tell us. 
Ain't heard tell'a revnu-oors here bouts. 

OMG! Have I committed a serious bit of stereotyping?

----------


## Jon

Furnace from the Mesta Forge Department. West Homestead, Pennsylvania. Circa 1915-1925.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Jun 6, 2022)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Wow, didn't know Mesta had a line of miniature machines :-) That looks hardly taller than a worker!

----------


## Toolmaker51

Awful good estimation by bruce.desertrat. 
Perhaps MESTA acquired it via auction lot; didn't know something so small was included?

Common brick is 2.25" high. Foundation is 5 courses with 4 mortar joints @~.6 (judging by the stack of 6 at left front corner) or kind of 13-5/8". Furnace box about 4x that 13.6, or 61"; 61"+13.6= ~74.8" (74.8/12 = 6.2').

Noooo, didn't stay at Holiday Inn last night, did employ Gerber Vari-Scale though. Enjoyable device, once in awhile wish it wasn't two feet long.
(drumroll please, cue for marksbug...)

----------


## Jon

Wire mesh machine. American Steel and Wire Co. Donora, PA. Circa 1915.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Jun 12, 2022),

nova_robotics (Jun 13, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 12, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Too bad this photographer wasn't in charge of the Brazilian line shaft shop...Line shaft driven factory and workers. Brazil, 1880, post 2613.

----------


## IntheGroove

Post #585 shows the other side of that machine...

----------


## Frank S

> Post #585 shows the other side of that machine...



Your right it does

----------


## hemmjo

Good catch, I thought I had seen a machine like that before. Same type machines, but appear to be in a different shop. Most telling detail is the drive belt. Located on the right in both photos, leading up in one down in the other.

----------


## jimfols

[QUOTE=jimfols;204386]I was thinking the same thing when I saw these wrenches.


Saw this today on eBay. $1299 US.
I own some Armstrong tools but I think this should be named Backstrong.

----------


## Isambard

I checked a 1937 Strelinger Cat, and Williams were making up to 7-5/8" wrenches for 5" bolts! 52" - long

$204 then!

A 4-1/4" was a mere $42, by comparison.

----------

jimfols (Jun 14, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Bolt and Nut Department. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation. Pittsburgh, PA.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg

----------

marksbug (Jun 20, 2022),

mr mikey (Jun 21, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

6 active spindles, unsure of brand; ACME-Gridley, National, Gisholt, Wickman to name a few. No CNC controls, but effectively autonomous via cams, linkages and gearing. Lots of them still running; and plenty of decent you-tube entertainment to boot.

----------


## marksbug

yikes! that would drive me nuts! ( as I bolted for the door) your screwed! your shift has just begun and your already lagging behind and your threads are torn & almost striped off.!!

----------


## mr mikey

Always fascinating to see machinery in action, good stuff. Mr Mikey.

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company air compressor. 1915-1925. West Homestead, Pennsylvania.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

Duke_of_URL (Jun 29, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 26, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Practically rofl. Either too much invested in big equipment, or no one liked handling small tools. Figures show they equipped more than 500 plants here and abroad. Mesta "machines" can be found in factories throughout the world and as of 1984 had equipment in 500 steel mills. Mesta was the 488th largest American company in 1958 and the 414th largest in 1959. Bankrupt mid 1980's. How on earth?

When/ who ever a liberal yahoo goes on about 'infrastructure' of daycare centers and art projects, I refer to Mesta, Lowey, GE Locomotiveworks, Grand Canyon or Coulee Dams and so on; "No, while this is the scale of infrastructure, but not yet installed, it isn't truly infrastructure. That comes transporting it cross country, installation and commissioning it, and finally benefiting a large population. THAT'S infrastructure! Flat trumps every argument. 
Incomprehensible how few get along without an inkling what it takes to hit a light switch, drive interstate highways, transport foodstuffs, build tracts of homes, . . .

----------


## hemmjo

I always listened to Paul Harvey on the radio. I see these photos and want to know "the rest of the story". Where did it go, what was its job, etc.

Search YouTude for "Paul Harvey The rest of the story" if interested. (in Paul Harvey, not the giant compressor)

I found this, Starting about 2 minutes in explains about a large compressor similar to the one shown.




(I also wish I could figure how to put YouTubes in just as a link)

----------

mr mikey (Jun 28, 2022)

----------


## mr mikey

Thanks for posting this video. Good stuff. I like old machines and equipment and antique engines. Thanks again. Mr. Mikey.

----------


## Toolmaker51

Note the initial commentator, in a standard compressor plant, amid centrifugal pumps, ~100hp electric motors, large castings entailing complicated coring, foundations, jackscrews, piping and control panels are glossed over; while oil sight tube, & revolutionary crane on wheels (crane + wheels = gantry, crane on ground = A-frame) a rarity, get vapid "Oh, that's cool" treatment. 
Steampunk mentality personified. That's who screws black pipe, steam fittings and pressure gauges together for an electric lamp; leave off gauges, it's a 'industrial' shelf bracket. Everything about appearance, zero on merit, capability, applicability.

----------

mr mikey (Jul 19, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Monongahela Railway Company traveling crane. Alicia, PA. August, 1934.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Jul 3, 2022),

nova_robotics (Jul 13, 2022),

Ralphxyz (Jul 3, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Just when it seemed I had crane designations in tow;

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company vertical bar shear. West Homestead, PA. 1905-1925.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

carloski (Jul 12, 2022),

jimfols (Jul 10, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 10, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Blooming mill engine. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation. Pittsburgh, PA. August, 1886.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

EnginePaul (Jul 23, 2022),

jimfols (Jul 17, 2022),

marksbug (Jul 17, 2022)

----------


## mr mikey

Hello, I saw this picture of an old lathe and thought this would great to post. Looks like 1920's. I'm not sure what make this is. Notice the machinist is wearing a tie. Thanks. Mr Mikey.

----------

marksbug (Jul 19, 2022),

Ralphxyz (Jul 19, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

well of coarse we wear ties.

----------


## Ed Weldon

Best to include a suitable and secure tie clasp. Back in the early days of my career I wore a tie clasp that was a cheap simple silver plated bar to which I mounted a tiny 440 stainliss steel ball bearing.

----------

mr mikey (Jul 19, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 19, 2022)

----------


## mr mikey

don't tell Osha lol.

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company rope drive wheel. Homestead, PA. 1905/1925.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Jul 24, 2022),

mr mikey (Jul 24, 2022)

----------


## jimfols

782

I never knew that.



Multiple rope drives driving lineshafts on each factory floor

----------


## marksbug

yup I saw that somewhere I visited. them smart fellers, split the power to any where in the factory.up down over change ratio for something I was amazed whay all they had done with it many many years ago. the down side is...when the power head stops it all stops. but there are addvantages to just one power unit, like put it outa the way.heat,noise etc.

----------


## mr mikey

Good stuff. When I was a kid I liked going to Greenfield Village in Dearborn Mi. and always spent the most time in the machine shop, all belt driven. I think I need another trip there. Mr Mikey.

----------


## marksbug

when my wife retires ,I... we hope to travel the country and see lots of stuff like that. thats if there is still a country to see.

----------


## hemmjo

What am I missing?

I am looking at that massive "wheel" which appears to be cast in one piece. The hub is bored and spilt. They appear to be cutting the keyway. There appears to be 4 bolts to clamp the hub to the shaft by squeezing the 2 halves of the hub together. Each half of the hub is attached to the outer rim rim of the wheel by 3 stout spokes.

Something has to move when they squeeze that hub down onto the shaft. Does it flex that massive wheel?

----------


## mr mikey

Hello, I'm just guessing, maybe the shaft and bore clearance is slightly press fit then when the clamping bolts are torqued as runout is measured its in spec.? also since belts are running at a slow rpm its not considered an issue.? Mr Mikey.

----------


## mklotz

If you want to see one (all right, a much smaller one) in action...

----------

jimfols (Jul 25, 2022),

Ralphxyz (Jul 25, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> What am I missing?
> 
> I am looking at that massive "wheel" which appears to be cast in one piece. The hub is bored and spilt. They appear to be cutting the keyway. There appears to be 4 bolts to clamp the hub to the shaft by squeezing the 2 halves of the hub together. Each half of the hub is attached to the outer rim rim of the wheel by 3 stout spokes.
> 
> Something has to move when they squeeze that hub down onto the shaft. Does it flex that massive wheel?



Exactly right, but only the hub, there aren't spokes across the center. 
The cutter head has a tapered arrangement with set screws to control depth. Boring a split hub is common, the gap is shimmed and clamped, the same torque on fasteners secures on shaft at installation. 
It _looks like_ a boring mill, so must be using the quill Z axis as a broach, like a lathe chucked part, cutter driven by carriage. Possibly, that era had a mechanism to run the quill in and out without rotating spindle? 
However, can't imagine a spindle within a square quill, I believe the machine is a shaper.

An alternative would Z the table; but this is a floor machine, not table type. Floor machines are considered 'portable', they secure the column at the part, the 'floor' actually is a giant Tee slotted plate. Dialing in a part, isn't a couple handles like a Bridgeport. 
Along with all that, the bore could have been done in a vertical lathe. The casting has been turned, those grooves ain't cast, an concentricity included. Biggest I've heard of was 33'; if man in picture is 5'5'', that's an 16' to 18' sheave.

But, here's a 42' Industrial History: Big Machine Tools

https://newatlas.com/the-citroen-che...3868/?amp=true

----------

hemmjo (Jul 25, 2022)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Marv, how does one splice the ropes?

Ralph

----------


## jimfols

[QUOTE=mklotz;207864]If you want to see one (all right, a much smaller one) in action...


[/QUOT

Sure beats having to match the individual rope lengths.

----------


## 12bolts

> But, here's a 42' Industrial History: Big Machine Tools



Well that was quite a rabbit hole

----------


## mklotz

> Marv, how does one splice the ropes?
> 
> Ralph



The "rope" is really a heavy, three strand string. There is only one join; the finished "belt" is a single loop. In order to get the loop size correct, it was formed with the rope in place on the model. In my younger days I built a lot of ship models so I was familiar with the splicing process but I expect one can find information on that on the web. Once spliced, the individual strands were reinforced with sewing thread because I didn't trust the cord's friction to handle the strain.

The whole process is a real exercise in frustration and fidgeting. I don't care to repeat it. Fortunately, if I did have to repeat it, I can now measure the existing one to get the loop size and not have to spice the new one on the model.

Animated knots has a whole section devoted to splices...

https://www.animatedknots.com/splicing-knots

This one...

https://www.animatedknots.com/short-splice-knot

shows an animation of splicing two pieces of three strand rope, much like what was done on my minature rope drive engine.

----------

Ralphxyz (Jul 26, 2022)

----------


## IntheGroove

Splicing-is fastening two Ends of a Rope together, with uncommon Slight-to execute which requires no ordinary Skill; as I can venture to say not one Seaman in twenty can perform it. 

A Naval Repository, 1762

----------


## marksbug

my wife is a manager at west marine, they had one guy that mad appointments to teach or do it for people. sadley he has passed ,I dont think any of the other salors that wprk in any of the local stores can do it. this guy was awesome. but he was in the Caribbean sailing and stepped on something, sepsis then stepped in.gone in about a week. so sad.

----------


## Rikk

When I was a lad in my teens, 30+ years ago, I worked at an auto parts store. We sold a lot of parts to local farms and one of the things we would sell was 3" diameter rope (special order obviously) so they could use it to pull stuck equipment out during fall harvest season when it was muddy. We had an old retired Navy guy who would pick up the rope, we would toss it in his pickup for him and he would take it home to his shop and pull each end of the rope out of the truck and braid eyes in each end for clevises. He was probably 70-80 and could only handle so much of the rope, so we made sure he could easily get 8-10 feet of rope out of his truck and onto a workbench. He would bring it back in a couple of days and you couldn't even tell that it wasn't a "factory" end. Although I would bet they are done at the factory by hand as well, but they didn't offer it for these monster ropes. We would coil the rope onto a pallet, strap it down and deliver it to the farm. 

He would come in when we were slow and teach us to tie knots. He would have to slow down so we could follow him and could tie most of them with his eyes closed. I still use a bowline all the time as it's the only one I can do quickly without having to look at my hands.

Edit: I just remembered him telling us that he could tie the knots with his eyes closed because he had to be able to do it in the dark or underwater with no visibility. He sure was a neat guy, very patient and had great stories.

----------

Ralphxyz (Jul 26, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

yup thats like my old friend.

----------


## hemmjo

If anyone is truly interested in learning to tie knots, the good kind that you can also untie when necessary, you need to practice. Find some rope and search for instructions. There are lots of resources to learn. There is a big difference in ropes, there is twisted and braided. You can tie knots in either, but splicing is different for braided vs twisted rope. 

The splicing mentioned in this thread is with twisted rope. If you want to splice braided rope, specific that in your search

If you can type the question (how to splice ropes), you only get 8,380,000 results. The first 10 should show you how it is done.

If you type (how to splice braided rope) you get 8,660,000 results.

I love to sail, rope and knots are you friend. Even for land lubbers, learning to properly use rope can be a life saver.

This is a good source of information from  Samson Rope 

The "long splice" is what should be used to splice to run on the pulleys.

----------


## marksbug

my old friend did the braided ropes. possibly both.

----------


## IntheGroove

The best book of knots is The Ashley Book of Knots. 7000 drawings representing 3900 knots...

----------


## hemmjo

It is possible we have some confusion in regard to terminology.

----------


## Rikk

> It is possible we have some confusion in regard to terminology.



In my previous post, when I say braid the rope, it was twisted rope, but the only term I could come up with to describe the act of adding a loop to was to braid it, as it's similar to braiding hair.  :Confused:

----------


## Jon

Press. Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad Company. September, 1962.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

mr mikey (Jul 31, 2022),

nova_robotics (Aug 6, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company double helical gear planer. West Homestead, PA. 1905/1925. 

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Aug 8, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 7, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Note it's secured with planer jacks and screws to a T-slotted base. This monster might have been driven from below! Sensible, open the gap, crane in a blank, close the gap and set to whittle away.
Unsure about the motor endbell visible to the left, certainly connected to shaft holding the gear.

----------


## Isambard

That motor shaft passes behind the gear...

----------


## marksbug

I agree.I always thought they made those in 2 parts. perhaps they are 2 peices.

----------


## Isambard

One piece, the slot in the middle is for run-out of the tools.

----------


## marksbug

Ive seen them in 2 peices ,I presumed for setting back lash when needed to do so.

----------


## Toolmaker51

What appears to be cutter heads, the inclined 'toolposts' is a very precise yet easy adjustment in simultaneous centerline and diameter correction for setup, independent of the 'cross slide'.

----------

mr mikey (Aug 8, 2022)

----------


## Frank S

The name for the tooth pattern sometimes called a double helical but most often called a Herringbone. As I mentioned in another thread about the ability to transmit more torque with a helical than a straight cut gear the Herringbone design takes that to a far new level not only in the ability of handling increased torque the design does 2 more things it virtually eliminates lateral thrust plus can offer near zero backlash. 
Here is a small pair of gear I have made out of aluminum 



Here are a few examples of larger gear sets even right angle


Due largely to the double angle cut of the gears which in turn alters the stress angle in the body of both gears a higher ratio between pinion and bull can be obtained since there is also more tooth contact and more teeth in contact than a straight cut spur gear

----------

Ralphxyz (Aug 9, 2022),

Scotsman Hosie (Oct 1, 2022)

----------


## Rikk

> Mesta Machine Company double helical gear planer. West Homestead, PA. 1905/1925.



I would love to see that wonderful machine run.

----------

mr mikey (Aug 9, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I would love to see that wonderful machine run.



As would we all, anything of MESTA Machine Co. 
With us short guys in front..........

----------

Rikk (Aug 9, 2022)

----------


## mr mikey

You got my vote. I'd like to see that aslo. In my early years I helped set up machines but nothing that big. Cool stuff. Mr Mikey.

----------

Rikk (Aug 9, 2022)

----------


## Jon

10,000 ton forging press at Carnegie Steel Company's Homestead Steel Works. 1893-1895.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Inflight (Aug 15, 2022),

jimfols (Aug 22, 2022),

nova_robotics (Aug 15, 2022),

Scotsman Hosie (Oct 1, 2022)

----------


## 12bolts

100,000 tons?
I think maybe an extra zero slipped in there!

----------


## Jon

> 100,000 tons?
> I think maybe an extra zero slipped in there!



Good call; my error. All fixed now.

----------


## Jon

48-inch mill at the Homestead Steel Works. Homestead, PA. 1954.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Aug 22, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 22, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

When a supervisors office is on casters, likely he's many processes to oversee.
He knows it's a large plant, when that office also has lifting eyes to hoist by bridge crane.

Of so many pics Jon has presented, this is first I recall depicting duckboards.
Have made a couple over the years, best surface for prolonged standing, _and_ minimizing chips underfoot. Lifted occasionally, chips are right there, ready to scoop and dispose. 
But end-grain wood bricks still first choice.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Oct 1, 2022)

----------


## Isambard

I don't think those are duck boards, more like planks covering a pit.
Most of Mesta's plant was driven from below. Difficult to drive
overhead, when the majority of the product was shifted by
overhead crane.

----------


## Jon

Ingot casting pits at the Mesta Machine Company. West Homestead, PA. 1910/1920.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...6_fullsize.jpg

----------

carloski (Aug 30, 2022),

jimfols (Sep 11, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Carnegie Steel Company Homestead Steel Works. Homestead, PA. 1893.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...1_fullsize.jpg

----------

carloski (Sep 10, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Billet chutes at the Homestead Steel Works. Homestead, PA. 1908.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...3_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Sep 11, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Carnegie Steel Company Homestead Steel Works. Homestead, PA. 1893.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...1_fullsize.jpg



Email titled this "_1893 Carnegie Steel Company Workers_"
I'm renaming it 1893 Carnegie Steel Company Workers, at lunch.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Billet chutes at the Homestead Steel Works. Homestead, PA. 1908.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...3_fullsize.jpg



One guy descaling tremendous quantity of iron or steel billets. What leads me to state that?
Only one work coat hanging on the bridge crane upright, off to his left.
Unsure how billets make it from chutes to area between crane span, or how the stacking occurs _under_ crane rail.......

----------


## Jon

Self-propelled scale car by Howe Scale of Rutland, VT. 1905.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...7_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Sep 19, 2022),

Scotsman Hosie (Oct 1, 2022)

----------


## IntheGroove

Being winter, the laundry shouldn't get dusty...

----------


## Jon

Brown electric hoist unloading ore carrier. Buffalo, NY. 1908.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...8_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Sep 26, 2022)

----------


## Jon

72-inch mill rolling plate at the Homestead Steel Works. Homestead, PA. 1941.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...9_fullsize.jpg

----------

allenz (Nov 7, 2022),

nova_robotics (Oct 3, 2022),

Ralphxyz (Oct 4, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Tank truck with plow clearing snow. Washington, D.C. 1922.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...3_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Oct 23, 2022),

KustomsbyKent (Oct 10, 2022),

Miloslav (Oct 10, 2022),

mr mikey (Oct 11, 2022),

nova_robotics (Oct 10, 2022),

sak778 (Oct 30, 2022)

----------


## IntheGroove

That thing is sweet. It even has a headlight...

----------


## mr mikey

That truck probably works better than some of the plow trucks I see today.  :Idea:

----------


## Jon

Mesta four-column forging press. West Homestead, PA. 1905/1925.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...0_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Jon

Twenty mule team drawn combine. Walla Walla County, WA. 1941.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...6_fullsize.jpg

----------

allenz (Nov 20, 2022),

clydeman (Oct 24, 2022),

durrelltn (Nov 6, 2022),

EnginePaul (Oct 25, 2022),

jackhoying (Oct 30, 2022),

jimfols (Oct 30, 2022),

mr mikey (Oct 30, 2022),

mwmkravchenko (Oct 24, 2022),

Ralphxyz (Oct 28, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 1, 2022)

----------


## jackhoying

That's an amazing photo

----------


## mr mikey

Hey free fertilizer too  :Lol:  very cool pic.

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company lever shear. West Homestead, PA. 1905/1925.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...4_fullsize.jpg

----------

durrelltn (Nov 5, 2022),

jimfols (Oct 30, 2022)

----------


## IntheGroove

If any tool needed eyes painted on it that's it...

----------

bruce.desertrat (Oct 30, 2022),

hemmjo (Nov 1, 2022),

Inner (Nov 2, 2022),

jimfols (Oct 30, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 1, 2022)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Imagine shearing 7" cold steel!

Ralph

----------


## mansworld

So, after all, a mule is not stubborn and can works. From the common phrase ' stubborn as a mule'.

----------


## schuylergrace

I was imagining single-point threading that rod at the top.

----------


## hemmjo

> If any tool needed eyes painted on it that's it...



HA, I just got that!!! Sometimes it takes me a while, depending on the day!!  :Smash:

----------

IntheGroove (Nov 1, 2022),

Jon (Nov 2, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Twenty mule team drawn combine. Walla Walla County, WA. 1941.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...6_fullsize.jpg



re post 836, the mule team and combine.
With no clue what's going on here, examining photo revealed some details. The hitch is just pulling the machine, and it's power plant to run the combine itself, plus what ever tasks of surprisingly large crew, including filling the sacks piled on left side. 
Then wikipedia......The modern combine harvester, or simply combine, is a versatile machine designed to efficiently harvest a variety of grain crops. The name derives from its combining four separate harvesting operations—reaping, threshing, gathering, and winnowing— to a single process. Among the crops harvested with a combine are wheat, rice, oats, rye, barley, corn (maize), sorghum, soybeans, flax (linseed), sunflowers and rapeseed. The separated straw, left lying on the field, comprises the stems and any remaining leaves of the crop with limited nutrients left in it: the straw is then either chopped, spread on the field and plowed back in or baled for bedding and limited-feed for livestock.

Combine harvesters are one of the most economically important labor-saving inventions, significantly reducing the fraction of the population engaged in agriculture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combine_harvester Article may have been written by an Englishman, as I Americanized spelling of ploughed and labour-saving.

This post demonstrated likelihood many are quite ignorant of goings-on 24/7/365 to keep us fed. Though a huge probability existed the mules were bred here in Missouri.

----------

mr mikey (Nov 1, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Imagine shearing 7" cold steel!
> 
> Ralph



Recalling what we've seen of MESTA equipment, could be their compact model........

Compared to shears that descend guided at each end, this is a variety known (perhaps colloquially) as an alligator/ aka high angle shear. Both use the inclined blade angle just like scissors do. The blade clearance on the MESTA was probably not good for sheetmetal, but smaller bench shears do it easily.
Never sheared 7" but can report a 6' wide 'gator nipped hot rolled stock for welding coupons 1-1/2" and 2" thick, hardly making a sound. 25-30 minutes or so, would supply a big pile of them. Then handful of guys would eat 50 pound boxes of electrodes running multi pass weld samples. 
Neither one a bill I'd like to foot.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I was imagining single-point threading that rod at the top.



Must be referring to the tie-rod connecting the upper frame. While your doing that, I'm ordering 2 cuts of hex bar to single point the nuts. Definite opportunity to bore pitch and maximum diameter references.

----------

schuylergrace (Nov 1, 2022)

----------


## mr mikey

You know you're getting old when you remember that black and white commercial for Twenty Mule Team Borax cleaner. Good stuff.

----------


## hemmjo

> You know you're getting old when you remember that black and white commercial for Twenty Mule Team Borax cleaner. Good stuff.



I used to have a model of the Twenty Mule Team Borax team and wagons. Not sure what happened to it.  :Frown:

----------


## 12bolts

Dave, from Engels Coach Shop, (Youtube) built a full size 20 mule team borax wagon, (x2) and a water cart from scratch.




The link is a brief rundown of the process but there is also a full series of videos on each step. Its a fantastic channel. I love his stuff.

----------

Bullet500 (Nov 3, 2022),

Corm (Nov 6, 2022),

hemmjo (Nov 2, 2022),

Jon (Nov 2, 2022),

lavern s (Nov 2, 2022),

mr mikey (Nov 2, 2022)

----------


## mr mikey

Wow, the craftsmanship is awesome. Thank you for posting.

----------

allenz (Nov 7, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> You know you're getting old when you remember that black and white commercial for Twenty Mule Team Borax cleaner. Good stuff.



Don't know if I recall them or not.
Uh oh.

----------


## TrickieDickie

I remember the Borax commercials it was used around a western series, maybe early Wagon Train ?

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company air compressor. West Homestead, PA. 1905/1925.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...7_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Nov 11, 2022),

Ralphxyz (Nov 11, 2022)

----------


## Ralphxyz

I'd like to see the motors.

----------


## jimfols

Mesta Machine Company air compressor. West Homestead, PA. 1905/1925.

It's been discussed before. But never having worked around bolts this large, these images fascinate me.

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company vacuum pump. West Homestead, PA. 1905/1925.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...6_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Nov 14, 2022)

----------


## IntheGroove

The railing around the flywheel appears to be threaded pipe. If so, how did they assemble it...

----------

nova_robotics (Nov 14, 2022)

----------


## 12bolts

Jim,
Biggest nut & bolt I ever dealt with 

Cheers Phil

----------


## marksbug

oh great you found the ring gear bolt out of my dana!

----------


## old kodger

> The railing around the flywheel appears to be threaded pipe. If so, how did they assemble it...



The posts at the ends with the balls on them are not threaded

----------

IntheGroove (Nov 14, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company, unlabeled machine. West Homestead, PA. 1910/1920.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...9_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Nov 21, 2022),

Ralphxyz (Nov 25, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Fageol Motors orchard tractor. Oakland, CA. 1918.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...7_fullsize.jpg

----------

clydeman (Nov 28, 2022),

jimfols (Jan 2, 2023),

marksbug (Dec 4, 2022),

nova_robotics (Nov 28, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Brown electric hoist unloading freighter. 1910.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...6_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Jan 2, 2023),

kboy0076 (Dec 14, 2022),

nova_robotics (Dec 5, 2022)

----------


## mklotz

They had those operating in 1910 and it never occurred to them that, if the cargo was in similar sized boxes they could unload them to trucks/trains much more quickly. It took 46 years and a world war before that simplicity was "discovered".

Edit...

Not to mention the fact that the Greeks and Romans were doing containerized (amphora-ized) shipping two millenia before that.

----------

jimfols (Jan 2, 2023),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 4, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> They had those operating in 1910 and it never occurred to them that, if the cargo was in similar sized boxes they could unload them to trucks/trains much more quickly. It took 46 years and a world war before that simplicity was "discovered".
> 
> Edit...
> 
> Not to mention the fact that the Greeks and Romans were doing containerized (amphora-ized) shipping two millenia before that.



Amphora; Extended height 'vases' with truncate tapered bases. WTH? They'd fall over! 
Nope, their ships cargo hols had a bed of sand, the pointed ends penetrated into it, for near perfect load stability.

Another immensely used product emanating from WWII, you can't swing a dead cat without being near some. As the Navy established beachheads in the Pacific, an efficient method was needed getting various liquids, especially fuel & oil, ashore, and continuous resupply. Army mess had liked white gravy for SOS in that volume, no comment
Instead of welding pipelines, the piping clamp, rolled groove and seal were developed; it lives on today virtually unchanged as the Victaulic product line.
Works in carbon, stainless or copper pipe. I'm sure the heavy underground plastic also, but those grooved might have to be machined, metallic pipe is done with a 'groover', essentially opposite of knurling. Clearly visible to left in this terrific (sprained my arm patting myself on the back) photo, also visible are lips of the rubber seal. The 'carriage bolts' aren't square lugged, they are obround; more contact, less chance stripping the recess.

Seal? Sure does, main method of assembling fire sprinkler systems, high pressure, resistant to vibration, to stringent codes of life and safety.
Here's one performing as a union; a close copper NPT nipple cut in half, grooved and joined by a Victaulic. 

Both these are headers for transfer pump skids, built where I'm visiting in Los Angeles. Proud having mentored this young man, figuratively before his Dad even graduated High School. No wisecracks, he was born 8 years later.

----------


## mklotz

Amphora were often loaded horizontally laid interlaced (pointy end next to adjacent blunt end) lying on a bed of sand. Layers were cushioned from the layers above/below with straw, reeds or the like. Numerous sunken ships found in the Adriatic and Black seas still show this arrangement so the carrying form isn't mere speculation. Some short haulers had racks with holes fixed along the gunwales; amphorae were inserted in the holes. This technique was really only good for calm water - probably riverine craft only.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Dec 5, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Farm Security Administration cooperative tractor. Box Elder County, Utah. August, 1940.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...8_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Duke_of_URL

Three men and one tractor... looks "productive."  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
Reminds me of the story my Uncles would tell us about the Workers Progress Authority (WPA) during the Great Depression, which was a government "workfare" program. They'd say it was always 3 men watching the 1 man with the shovel.

----------


## Isambard

Looks like 2 men and a boss, to me...The man 'driving' the McCormick-Deering, is far too clean!

----------


## Isambard

Psst! That's is a bulk carrier!

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company double helical tooth gear drive. 1905/1925.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...3_fullsize.jpg

----------


## hemmjo

Is that a big electric motor on the right side of the photo? Perhaps driving a shaft with 2 flywheels, and a small pinion gear for that monster gear? That monster generates some torque!!!

----------


## IntheGroove

You can see the commutators and brushes on the right. The motor turns a flywheel and the smaller gears. The large gear drives a flywheel and the machine on the left...

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company boring mill. 1905/1925.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...7_fullsize.jpg

----------

Ralphxyz (Dec 27, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Mill control panel at the American Steel & Wire Co. Donora Works. 1915-1917.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...3_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Frank S

Ya think?

----------


## IntheGroove

DC not AC...

----------


## Jon

Open hearth ladle. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation. 1930.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...0_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Jan 10, 2023),

Ralphxyz (Jan 13, 2023)

----------

