# Tool Talk > Wheels >  Unique tractor turning method - GIF

## Jon

Unique tractor turning method.



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Previously:

tractor powered by Buick Nailhead
Hornsby Mammoth steam tractor crawler
Dying man carves last will and testament into tractor fender
First Caterpillar tractor - steam-powered
Ford Flathead-powered 1970s John Deere lawn tractor
John Deere tactical tractor
Rock burying tractor attachment - GIF

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dubbby (May 20, 2020),

Paul Jones (Sep 16, 2017),

rgsparber (Sep 16, 2017),

Seedtick (Sep 16, 2017),

that_other_guy (Dec 26, 2018),

Trojan Horse (Sep 16, 2017)

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## Frank S

My 8n Ford will turn that sharp by just standing on 1 of the brake peddles so Will my 755 back hoe

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NortonDommi (Sep 16, 2017)

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## mklotz

If you want to have precisely spaced plowed rows to facilitate later mechanized planting, weeding, harvesting, etc., this might be one way to remove driver-induced locating errors. It still seems unnecessarily anal to me but I know nothing of farming so...

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## Metalmuncher

> My 8n Ford will turn that sharp by just standing on 1 of the brake peddles so Will my 755 back hoe



My first thought exactly -- our Ford Jubilee and subsequent 2000 made nice sharp turns. Dad called them "military corners" when he did it, for example when pulling a grain drill planting soybeans. Although this is an interesting idea, if the fellow who invented it knew how to use the wheel brakes to get the same results, he may not have bothered inventing it.

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Seedtick (Sep 16, 2017)

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## Jon

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ranald (Apr 22, 2018)

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## Frank S

> <video controls>
> <source src="https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmt-forum/car_fifth_wheel_parking.mp4" type="video/mp4">
> Your browser does not support the video tag.
> </video>



now that idea would be useful in most cities where if you pull past to set up for your parallel parking maneuver some idiot will zip right in behind you and thank you with a 1 fingered salute for saving him the parking space.

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## Jon

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greyhoundollie (Dec 31, 2019),

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## Frank S

> <video controls autoplay>
> <source src="https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmt-forum/antique_car_spare_wheel_turning.mp4" type="video/mp4">
> Your browser does not support the video tag.
> </video>



 Now that is the cleverest one of those I have seen

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## ranald

Good thing the front wheels aren't on warm asphalt. Thanks for sharing.

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## Jon

Gotta love that license plate too. I wasn't able to place it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicl..._of_California . But, 3 numbers plus one letter is 10 * 10 * 10 * 26 = just 26,000 combinations, assumedly for all of California.

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## mklotz

> Gotta love that license plate too. I wasn't able to place it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicl..._of_California . But, 3 numbers plus one letter is 10 * 10 * 10 * 26 = just 26,000 combinations, assumedly for all of California.



If we assume that every license plate consists of three digits and a letter that can be arranged in any sequence, then the number of permutations possible is:

36! / 32! = 1,413,720

which still seems a bit small for what looks like a 20's or early 30's auto. Of course, there's nothing to say that other configurations were not used; adding another letter or digit would expand that number considerably.

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Jon (Apr 23, 2018)

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## Jon

Of course; any sequence! Should've thought before posting.

I did encounter this gem while poking around on the topic of old license plates:

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## Jon

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gunsgt1863 (May 16, 2018),

JD62 (May 14, 2018),

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that_other_guy (Oct 19, 2021)

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## Frank S

I can just imagine pulling the wrong lever while at speed and the front wheels turn into plow disks

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## Jon

All to avoid the dread that is parallel parking.

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## Frank S

> All to avoid the dread that is parallel parking.



 I found an easy way to avoid parallel parking I just dont go to any town big enough to have it since my pickup won't fit into 2 standard small parking places anyway

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## Ralphxyz

well I like it, seems like a good idea, there are shortcomings but it gets the job done.

Ralph

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## VinnieL

> well I like it, seems like a good idea, there are shortcomings but it gets the job done.
> 
> Ralph



Makes doing doughnuts in more fun!!

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PJs (May 16, 2018)

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## Don42

I think there are 104,000 possible combinations of one letter and 3 numerals. 
26,000 combinations and permutations with letter in first position: 26 possible letters times 1000 3-digit numbers 000 thru 999
another 26,000 combinations and permutations with letter in second position
and so on

26,000 * 4 = 104,000.

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Komo (May 15, 2018),

ranald (May 15, 2018)

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## Komo

To: Don42

Addressing a question, not asked, check out:

http://www.cashmancuneo.net/soundex.htm

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## ranald

I think it is called technology, KOMO. sometimes its great & sometimes...................................
LOL
REGARDS, Ranald

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## ranald

thought this was a techno response but upon reviewing all the threads of this woolly I see what this reply is refering to. cheers

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## Jon

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ranald (May 18, 2018)

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## ranald

CHEAP DO NUTS? IN the vehicle or out of it? Fun, Fun, Fun, now that daddy...............

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## Komo

To: Don42 and Ranald

A wonderful thing about forums is that anything 'off topic' causes confusion. I just discovered that Ranald had written more than one response on May 15, one 'on topic' and the other as far off as my post.

My question directed to Don42, which probably should not have been in this thread at all, could have been framed to request the following:

What is the total 'number of possible combinations' using the Soundex Code? 

Florida uses the Soundex Code, based on the how a person's name sounds, not how it is spelled. It is used for the first four spaces of a driver's license. This Code applies the first letter of a person's last name plus numbers as follows:

Number Represents the Letters
1 B, F, P, V
2 C, G, J, K, Q, S, X, Z
3 D, T
4 L
5 M, N
6 R

An A, E, I, O, U, H, W, and Y are only used if it is the first letter of the code. Those letters do not receive a number. The numbers 7, 8, and 9 are not used at all. There are always four digits so later letters are ignored and zeros are added at the end if necessary.

Although there are several other 'rules for coding' which do not appear to change the total number of combinations, a usually unstated rule for the system is that a zero cannot be followed by any other number. 

In other words, Gaboronitzky is coded as G165, Adam is coded as A350, and A305 would not be allowed. The code for both Jim Ow and Kim Jung Oh would be O000.

According to the 2010 Census, there were over 6.2 million surnames in the USA.

My initial count found only 6,552 different possible codes [26 x 7 x 6 x 6], but I was not happy with that result.

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ranald (May 28, 2018)

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## ranald

Do all states of US use the same number for towed items like trailers, caravans, boat trailers, concrete mixes as that of the towing vehicle? 
My neighbour was born in the US but has lived here most of his life & a car ploughed into my front yard as the driver was probably intoxicated or extremely fatigued. My kind neighbour took a note of the number plate of the caravan as he couldn't see the Land Rover's number plate due to all the rubble of bricks & plants. The car was stopped eventually by large palms just a foot from the house. The neighbour said that both numbers would have been the same in his state back "home" and easily identified. The problem was the driver did a crash and run and the van was not registered. My brick (reinforced with steel) letterbox (4 bricks wide and 3 deep & about 3 ft high slowed the vehicle enough to help prevent the cavity brick house walls being damaged. The bricks claimed the sump and we followed the oil trail the next day but no sign after it (the oil trail) finished. Police were too busy & not enough info regarding the stolen van number plate so the legal matter was stopped. He had to pay motor damage (karma) & my insurer eventually paid for my letterbox replacement less excess . LUCKY I HAD A SOLID LETTER BOX.
Another interesting piece of trivia: hoons continually destroyed a local playground, and furniture with do nuts & 4x4 play. Eventually a bar-b-que claimed a number plate & a culprit was apprehended and dobbed on others. no more damage to that park.

cheers

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## Frank S

I have no Idea where your mate lived in the states but in all of the states I've been in the number plate never matches the tow vehicle.
Some States you have to have to turn in the plate tot eh DMV when you sell a vehicle others the plate stays on the vehicle and the new owner has 30 days to re register it in his name. But that can get you in a world of trouble if you don't call the DMV with the transfer info imeadiatly when you sell it. Because if they are involved in an accident or get a ticket as long as those plates are valid and in your name you can be held responsible. If I sell a vehicle I pull my plates then make the guy pay for a 30 day temporary tag then go online and purchase one in his name then just print it off and hand it to him. That way his insurance policy is listed the permit is in his name and it is up to him to get it done right because I'm out of the picture. 
If I am thinking about buying a vehicle from someone and want to test drive it first. I call or text my ins. co whit the make model and vin then have it included on my policy for the test drive, If I am doing this at a used car dealer I am doubly sure to put full coverage on it for the duration and take pictures of all 4 sides before driving it. Used car dealers will try anything to make you pay for something you didn't do.

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ranald (May 29, 2018)

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## ranald

Thanks Frank. Maybe he had that idea from childhood as he was quite young when immigrating. I was duped by my uncle into believing the indicators (older vehicles used more primative hand signals) came on automatically when about to turn a corner which I believed till about 13y.o. when i could sit in front seat and could see driver flick the switch. LOL. Now vehicles drive themselves. Tomorrow the "Jetsons".

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## Jon

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## Frank S

I use to own a little short tractor trailer rig and I could make the trailer wheels roll backwards if I turned tight enough.

I could also legaly carry 44,000 LBs which was as much as most of the big trucks could carry on 5 axles. I had turned up the 8.3 engine to 325 HP dropped in a 13 sp and put the rear axle on air ride not only could I haul as much but I could keep up with their larger 450 Hp trucks because I was 20 K lighter.

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PJs (Dec 1, 2018)

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## PJs

Now that is a driver...I would have no problem following that guy!

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## Jon

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## Frank S

> <video controls autoplay loop>
> <source src="https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmt-forum/perfect_truck_drift_into_warehouse.mp4" type="video/mp4">
> Your browser does not support the video tag.
> </video>



Drifting a truck on an icy surface to enter the building I hope the floor was dry.

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PJs (Dec 6, 2018)

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## Toolmaker51

Drift truck. OK, I'll click...expecting a modded vehicle. Shucks.

Had our first snow couple weeks ago. Our vicinity reported 11" max snowfall, not drifts, in 24 hours. As usual, first vehicles 'in the ditch' are pickups and SUV's. 
Ooooooh NO, I've got a snowflake on my hood, must plunge into that ravine! Must!

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## Frank S

I always find it amusing that so many people seem to think that as soon as a couple of snow flakes fall they all suddenly believe they are Mattias Ekstrom

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## Jon

It is definitely the time of year for vehicular mayhem. Roads in CO are actually worse after the first few storms of the year than in mid-winter. Seeing an SUV or two flipped over is normal. When you see multiple professional drivers getting into trouble, it's an extraordinary red flag, and a very good sign to slow to a crawl.



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## Frank S

Sorry Jon but most of the drivers in the big rigs today are nothing more than steering wheel holders. Instead of being put through an apprenticeship program to learn the ropes of driving a big rig they attend some truck driving school spend most of their time sitting in a simulator not behind the wheel of an actual rig with a seasoned driver beside them. For these reasons the transportation industry had had to incorporate automatic brake adjusters since drivers don't know how to propperly adjust their brakes Anti locking brake systems have had to be developed since driver don't know how to apply their brakes properly. Many rigs now have automatic transmissions since drivers don't know how or when to shift gears. Trucks have to have computerized monitoring since drivers don't even know how to check their iol water tire pressures and many more things the older hands took for granted as something that was done every few hours or miles. Trucks have 5 6 or even 700 Hp now days so they can run up hill the same speed as they do on flat ground.
Back in the day of the 275 to 390 or less HP trucks a lot if us had 2 and even 3 transmissions to shift our engines had a very narrow torque RPM range so keeping it in that sweet spot was very important. Also there was a hard fast rule you never went down hill faster than you could climb it. Plus if the road surface was shiny or white you drove slower If you had to run your windshield wipers you drove slower. it it was dark enough to need your headlights or if the weather conditions were such that it was prudent to have your lights on you drove slower. In any weather condition you never drove close to the vehicle in front of you. You practiced 6 sided driving at all times front, right, left, rear, bottom, and top in that order. You stayed aware if things a 1000 yards in front of you as well as those near.
This is not to say that there were no wrecks because there were, and there always will be.
In today's world anyone who has a heart beat and can answer a few pat questions take a short driving test after completing driver's ed can get a operators license to drive a car suv or pickup. or even an RV and these test are never preformed in inclement weather out of safety concerns WHA??? 
In 1987 or 88 when my oldest daughter was wanting to get her license I took her in a rig with a RGN lowboy trailer hauling an Excavator for a little jaunt around Dallas TX we rode for nearly 8 hours just traveling around town on the freeways and sometimes the surface streets I did this to make her aware of the limitations of big rigs what to watch out for when traveling near them. she had not been involved in a single finder bender to date. My youngest daughter often rode with me on long trips in my smaller semi and she has only been involved in 1 accident. I cannot say the same for me though, I guess the law of attrition caught up with me a few times as sometimes no matter how you practice safe driving habits ther is always going to be an idiot who is bent on doing something stupid that you cannot avoid.

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Jon (Dec 7, 2018),

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## PJs

That was a tough Gif to watch Jon and hear you about road conditions changing over times of storms. Adding that to the last week of school bus crashes with trucks...hard to take lightly.

Great words Frank! I've had great respect for truck drivers since I was a kid and more so after getting a drivers license...until the last 8-10 years. I've encountered several that I considered saved my life and a few as great friends (A Dart driver, Al in particular) when I was Receiving Clerk for a Sears A store as a young buck. 

Coming home for Christmas from college going through San Berdu in my TR3 we hit a horrendous fog bank like I've never encountered before or since. There was a set of doubles about 300 yards in front and when I saw him tap his breaks 3 times and and heard him downshift multiple times, then hit the brakes hard I knew it was bad, all in the matter of maybe 30-45 seconds. I tucked in behind just close enough to see his lights and paced him as best I could...I'm talking about ~10' of visibility and crawling along at maybe 15-20mph, down hill. A few cars whizzed by in the faster lanes, sure enough with spins and guardrail crashes. I stayed put for maybe 20 miles (too focused to remember) and when we came out, there was a truck stop where we both pulled over for a white knuckle break and I bought him a cup and thanked him profusely.

Truckers flashing their lights for you that you were clear and waving you around when the coast is clear and driving steady speeds (as they can) and my favorite as a kid giving you the air horn when ask from the back window of the car. Their Safety, courtesy, respect and most of all conscious clarity, gave me respect and admiration for them for most of my life.

In the last 8-10 I've notice the courtesy, waning or Gone and recklessness increase; pulling out in front of people on fast moving roads, blocking LR views at intersections when you were their first...etc. [I actually uncurled out of my SC400 on one guy because all I could see was his lug nuts and read him the riot act because I had encountered him b4 doing the same thing...should have reported him. A local Quarry transport guy, usually with doubles.] I wonder some times if its not as much from lack of training but fed up with those distracted drivers, Digital Drivers (Gas On/Gas off), the fraidy cats, and those that brake for trees...Oh Martha look at that tree, braking while having 6-10 cars behind doing 10 under the limit. I know they wear on me sometimes for sure. They say here in California, Driving is a Privilege...perhaps they should monitor that better.

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## Frank S

> That was a tough Gif to watch Jon and hear you about road conditions changing over times of storms. Adding that to the last week of school bus crashes with trucks...hard to take lightly.
> 
> Great words Frank! I've had great respect for truck drivers since I was a kid and more so after getting a drivers license...until the last 8-10 years. I've encountered several that I considered saved my life and a few as great friends (A Dart driver, Al in particular) when I was Receiving Clerk for a Sears A store as a young buck. 
> 
> They say here in California, Driving is a Privilege...perhaps they should monitor that better.



 One of my first trips to the LA area in my baby Kenworth I forget exactly the highway number now but there is a left exit to take you tot eh 405 or the 101 I think. ANyway I was trying to get over to make the exit while driving the TRUCK SPEED limit. and not having much luck. A CHP pulled along side of em and yelled out what was my problem. I told him I couldn't get over because the 4 wheeler's speeding by co fast. He yelled back Just Stand on it driver let you signal blink 3 times then occupy the lane you want they will let you in or I will call thm a hook to haul em off. 
Another time I was at a truck stop having a coffee at the counter when a couple Motorcycle CHP came in and sat beside me we struck up a conversation about the speed differential between truck and cars, One of them said man you got to understand there is a prima-facia law out here not on the books but sometimes you drivers have to go as much as 30 over just to keep from getting run over by smaller vehicles we understand that when we see a driver in a situation like that usually it is the string of cars that are going to get pulled over. The state government hates trucks but we know that if a truck doesn't haul it no one can buy it. I made 100s of trips to Cali. in the 80s and some in the 90s and never had an issue with a CHP Locals were another story but if I had an issue with 1 of them I always called a CHP

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Toolmaker51 (Dec 7, 2018)

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## wizard69

> Drift truck. OK, I'll click...expecting a modded vehicle. Shucks.
> 
> Had our first snow couple weeks ago. Our vicinity reported 11" max snowfall, not drifts, in 24 hours. As usual, first vehicles 'in the ditch' are pickups and SUV's. 
> Ooooooh NO, I've got a snowflake on my hood, must plunge into that ravine! Must!



I remember a decade or so ago driving from New York to Nevada for some Christmas time R&R and tookthe route through Colorado. Apparently my route was preceded by a heavy storm that left about two inches of packed snow / ice on the road. There was literally a SUV upside down (wheels pointing to the sky) about every quarter of a mile. I kinda thought that people in Coloradowould know how to drive in bad weather. Not a chance. 

Even stranger is that most of the vehicles off the road where SUVs. Of course that leads one wondering why but I will avoid my perspective as it would likely offend an SUV owner or two.

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## neilbourjaily

I had a 30 year career in distribution of fresh produce, industrial level. We, the company I worked for, loaded scores to hundreds of trucks per week, mostly straight loads not partials. I understand trucks, the problems of driving them safely, and the problem trucking companies have attracting drivers. Line drivers never get home. They have no family life. On top of that there is no real future in trucking. Certainly, part of the problem is the abusive way in which shippers and receivers treat drivers. 10, maybe 15 years from now it'll be entirely self driving. And that is a GOOD thing. 
There is a terrible shortage of drivers, an even worse shortage of competent drivers who know how to show up on time and be safe about it. The driver shortage is causing an increase in trucking rates because truck supply lags truck demand. That truck shortage is a rate limiting step in the growth of business. 
Long-haul trucking is a lousy business for young people. Interestingly, there is a supply of retirees who want or need to work. These people already know how to show up on time. They can be trained to operate safely; they want to see their grandkids and know that getting home safely is 3/4 of the battle. 
Here's a bridge solution for the industry. Hire retirees. They only want (need) to work for a few years. By the time they are ready to quit, self-drivers will be the norm. The industry will get a ready, willing, and safe-thinking workforce. These current retirees don't need a 30 year career. They only need a few years of income. And they'd enjoy seeing the country.

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EnginePaul (Dec 9, 2018),

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## ranald

My take on it is: most folk who buy suv's buy them because they think they are safer but dont realize that the driver still needs to "drive to the conditions" or pull over somewhere safe(for all road users). I spoke to a lady, yonks ago, who rolled a troopie full of people when negotiating a 90 deg corner at about 45 kph. She assumed that she could drive it like her old compact. 

Funny how many guys want to have a safer vehicle for the family (to do the shopping) but the driver hasn't learnt to control such vehicles. 

I have seen many near accidents where at least one driver did nothing to avoid the situation. When I learnt to drive, I was taught to keep constant focus on everything happening on the road & have an escape plan. We all know that it is easy to do with constant practice= our minds are computers programmed to do what ever we train ours to do. These days many drivers wont cross a full middle line or fog line as "it is illegial" despite imminent danger. snow /sleet/ice compounds the inexperience behaviour.

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Toolmaker51 (Dec 8, 2018)

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## Jon

The average consumer also has a distorted understanding of exactly what elements of driving contribute most to safe winter driving; almost certainly from over-exposure to advertising. They are caught up on terms like "SUV", "4WD", "Anti-Lock Brakes", "All Season Tires", etc. For the mountainous winter terrain where I live, with many winding canyon roads, I see it roughly in order of importance like this:

1. Driver skill level.
2. Studded snow tires.
3. Everything else.

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Frank S (Dec 8, 2018),

PJs (Dec 9, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 8, 2018)

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## Toolmaker51

> I remember a decade or so ago driving from New York to Nevada for some Christmas time R&R and tookthe route through Colorado. Apparently my route was preceded by a heavy storm that left about two inches of packed snow / ice on the road. There was literally a SUV upside down (wheels pointing to the sky) about every quarter of a mile. I kinda thought that people in Coloradowould know how to drive in bad weather. Not a chance. 
> 
> Even stranger is that most of the vehicles off the road where SUVs. Of course that leads one wondering why but I will avoid my perspective as it would likely offend an SUV owner or two.



I don't or won't own a SUV. My status has never been measured by 4 wheels [sometimes 2 though].
Bulk of SUV owners are victim of advertising "you can go here, you can do this, come back from there..." nonsense; thereby convinced of their new found invincibility. Sorry! 
Drive down any street. Take pictures of SUV's, even most 4 x 4's, with dirt in the wheel wells. Maybe, if they forgot to hose down the driveway. 
Sorry!
Hereabouts evidence another vein of SUV jockeys; as if 24" wheels and O-rings for tires enhance SU handling portion of SUV...
Sorry!

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## Frank S

While in Kuwait I had a Mitsubishi Pajero here in the states it would have been called a Montero it was a 1998 year model but with a 3.6 turbocharged engine not the standard 3.0. A 4 Sp auto with 2 sp transfer and an additional 2 sp box attached to the transfer case. Traction positive rear end not positive traction big difference, with an interlocking transfer case to lock the rear to the front diff Hardened sheet metal and 3/4" thick glass all the way around 10 ply 265 70 16 tires desert sand tred pattern. 
a rear anti sway brace that must have been close to 2" in diameter anti sway brace in front that would have been about the size of the ones found on most 1 ton pickups The company gave it to me because they felt I would be more comfortable driving something that felt more like a truck than a car and they were right. I put 300,000 Km on it from 2003 to 2009 it couldn't be hurt unless I was to run over an IED up in Iraq which thankfully I never had to find out in all of my trips to Basra and Baghdad I liked the big square box shape of it and could haul a 1000 KG in the back. in 2009 the company bought me a 2007 Chevrolet Trailblazer with the 4.2.
I hated it at first because there was no foot room for my size 13's until I had a body shop beat the hump in the floor by the accelerator peddle flat. giving me anohter couple of inches. the Chevy IMO might as well have been a vega as far as being able to go the places that I often needed to go but after a few years I almost got used to it. I pretty much had to after I went on vacation in 20011 and loaned my Pajero to one of my engineers who managed to crush a HM2 with it the first day he drove it. it was still derivable so they didn't bother trying to repair it the HM2 was hauled away to the scrap yard. They gave the Pajero to one of the mechanics as a service vehicle He trashed the insides of it in a few months.
IMO there are SUv's then there are pretenders and none of them made today fit in the first classification. If it has a truck style frame then it is an SUV as long as it doesn't try to look like a car. everything else might as well be vegas and pintos

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## Xironworker

To frank s everything you said is very true yet it is hardly the drivers fault. I came up in pretty much the same atmosphere in northern ca, the logging community, I remember those derelict trucks dragging a few logs to the mill in fort Bragg ca ( back then two or three logs made a load they where so big ) and these guys were pros hardy ever an accident. Theres a picture, I believe, of a truck hanging from the Albion Bridge in Mendocino County. Have said that I can hardly believe its the drivers fault if I were to blame anyone I would have put postit on the industry and of course the states legislatures. any drop in the standards belong to them and their cronies. Or maybe I mis-understood the point of your well thought out and written post/article.

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## Frank S

Xironworker; you are partially correct and fully correct in certain aspects of the topic of accidents and industry standards.
here is the way I look at it.And bare in mine this is just 1 man's opinion whit 10's of millions of miles behind the wheel of just about everything that runs on wheels except for a train, for more than 50 years and not to be confused with folks like a friend of mine who has a 10 million mile safe driving award. I can not say that personally.
Ultimately the responsibility rests on the shoulders of the person who is driving any particular type of vehicle to #1 have familiarity with the vehicle he or she is driving. This includes its size weight capacity power speed maneuverability acceleration and breaking.
#2 Never to exceed any of the a fore mentioned.
#3 driving skills and experience to avoid situations which will result in an accident.
#4 to always be aware of their surroundings by following the 6 sided driving rule Front, back, left, right, top, and bottom.
#5 treat every vehicle as if it was going to handle like a brick on ice if the so called enhanced safety amenities fail. 
#6 never allow themselves to be distracted by passengers,things, or occurring events inside or outside of the vehicle
#7 drive as though everyone else does not know what they are doing, and try to anticipate what they may do when something arrises.
#8 always watch what is going on in front of the 2 ,3 ,4 or even 8 vehicles ahead of you when ever possible.
#9 take as much control of your 6 sided driving as possible try to maintain as much comfort zone as possible especially in front and to the rear. Always assume that your fancy anti lock brakes do not exist. or your automatic driving robot IE breaking sensors obstacle avoidance ETC.is inebriated. Think of your vehicle as if it is going to behave like a 37 Chevy with bald tires but will out run a Bugatti with a W12 engine.
Now when it comes to industry standards and cronyism as far as I see it most things have not been done in the interest of safety but rather in interest of filling pockets. especially when it pertains to driver training today kids are forced to take a driver's education class ( Not that that is a bad thing) I myself took driver's Ed I had been driving my own vehicle to school for 2 years before I took it. But then again I had been driving farm vehicles and equipment from the ripe old age of 8 years old. I tied wood blocks to the pedals of the old 49 Ford flat bed truck so I could drive it in the hay fields while the older bigger boys and the adults cold load the hay. 
I used to ride beside my dad in Grandpa's old Mack and shift the gears with the 2 gear shift levers while we drove from Texas to Colorado through the mountains.
The first time I drove the old truck on that trip by my self I had just turned 14 no one was with me because pop was in the hospital and Grand pa was recovering from a heart attack. I made the whole trip without incident until I was about 30 miles from home when our county sheriff pulled me over. the next day I was before the judge and he issued me a letter of hardship I had my chauffeurs license allowing me to drive a truck a month later. 
Most of my friends who have driven over the road for many years got their break by riding as a swamper in a truck for a couple of years learning the do's & don't's of the road. Now days truck drivers get a few weeks in a TDS truck driving school then they are put with a trainer for a couple of runs then turned out on their own. Are they professional truck drivers? IMO not. At least not until they have a few years behind the wheel. and then only if they actually learned anything. Otherwise they are nothing but steering wheel holders 
That's my rant hope it doesn't offend too many folks.

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## MeJasonT

Easier to plough two blocks then plough out the break then finish with the head rigs surely, like one would do with a fixed furrow plough. All this time and energy spent reversing the furrows and trying to turn on the spot, it would be quicker raising the plough, driving twenty yards setting the plough down and carrying on. Lot less stressful. Did i mention my father Sydney Thompson was world ploughing champion in 1957,1958 lost to Canada in 1959 and won it back in 1960 with a pair of Clydesdale horses. he always claimed the Canada win was a fix, they awarded the prize before the end of the ploughing match - they were supposed to have until 3 PM to finish. They even caused an international incident when they refused to plough in one match as Africa had been banned from attending, the decision got overturned and the match went ahead. I myself have ploughed many a furrow (about 3 compared to my dad) with a Ford 6600 which is now my pride and joy after our family farm is now no more. My father would walk up to 15 miles with the horses, plough just over an acre then walk back before dark. Its strange now seeing contractors pulling in to fields near our house with huge tractors an 12 furrow ploughs, by the time they are once round they are heading back out of the gate. A large field near us is around 20 acres, nothing like the plains of America.

you guys type so fast my post from the UK is out of sync by the time i send it - sorry

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## MeJasonT

In regard to driving safely. I realised when i had a motorcycle i was the best rider in the world 10 seconds before i came off. Complacency and over confidence are the killer. Speed is not the problem - braking is, if you don't brake when you should, if you don't break in time or you break when you crap yourself then you usually end up in trouble. in a straight line at 200 mph in a serviceable vehicle you should be fine.

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PJs (Dec 17, 2018)

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## Frank S

> In regard to driving safely. I realised when i had a motorcycle i was the best rider in the world 10 seconds before i came off. Complacency and over confidence are the killer. Speed is not the problem - braking is, if you don't brake when you should, if you don't break in time or you break when you crap yourself then you usually end up in trouble. in a straight line at 200 mph in a serviceable vehicle you should be fine.



 One of my biggest peeves when driving is someone following me too close for my comfort.
My vehicles are usually much larger than those who are following me so they can't see what I see. I almost never have to stand on my Brakes but if something jumps out from the side of the road right in front of me you can bet my #13 EEE is going to stomp a hole in the floor unless i'm on Ice or wet roads My pickup is heavy enough in the front and rear that all 4 tires are going to rip asphalt before they will skid. I have larger calipers in front and 3 sizes larger wheel cylinders in the rear than the truck came with plus because IMO Ford's RABS system was junk when new it has been removed I removed the vacuum booster and replaced it with a hydro booster to have even more pressure. I'm like Yosemite Sam when I say whoa I mean WHOA.
Just a while back we were in Abilene driving along just under the speed limit when a basket ball bounced in front of me followed by a kid darting out between a couple of parked cars well I'm stopped almost before the kid even shows his head from around the car but the guy behind me in his brand new techno car wiht its high tech equipment that slows it maintains following distance and stops automatically is against my steel back bumper before he even sees my brake lights. To the car's credit it almost got stopped in time it just barely touched my truck not even hard enough to dent his plastic what ever that thing is they put on the front of cars these days. But the Abilene PD didn't do so well if he hadn't swerved to the left he would have ploughed right into the car making a sandwich out of the poor guy. 
We all got out the kid got his ball PD looked at the situation and said I don't think anyone's vehicle warrants any further action. we all had a good laugh about what could have happened then we left.
there is 2 things to this that I observed neither of the vehicles behind me should have been driving as close to the 1 in front.they were both not paying attention as well as they could have. Yeah maybe I could have been going just a little faster like doing 30 instead of about 27 but then I might have only stopped 3 feet before the kid got in front of me instead of 6 feet And I possibly could have been watching the side of the road a little better but it still would have been hard to see a 4 ft tall kid on the other side of a 5 ft tall vehicle. Just 1 more reason why I hate to have to go to a city I belong out here where all I have to worry about are Deer and cattle

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## Toolmaker51

re Frank S and other conscientious motor powered vehicles & vessels: We make transportation work, vigilant toward mechanics and regulations of operation. 
On the road, air or water, the only government oversight that gets my 'approval' or appreciation is bedded in those rules. Naturally, excesses abound, but nothing comes to mind that combines reality of mechanics, physics, human abilities, the volume of operators, and vehicular means. I'm also confident this shows only clear evidence of them using every means of information to create workable codes.
There might be four classes of drivers. First are those aware whats-what like Frank S described, though I'm not sure each can verbalize that knowledge at the drop of a hat. 
Second are those who seem aware, is more that others do properly which accommodate lesser drivers, second group thinking they operate safely. Their daily routine is circuitous too, at ease because little is unfamiliar.
Third, works in a false comfort zone bound by their fenders, forcing groups one and two to work harder avoiding them.
Fourth, a thankfully small party, like the third but without comforts, social responsibility, vehicle maintenance, insurance or wish to improve. Their driving habits look as though continually late for work. Running lights or stops, curb sneaking, tailgating, snap lane changes, weaving, what speed limit, making every lane a personal fast lane, forcing others retract in narrow streets...not to mention POS vehicles.

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## Frank S

TM51 it is my belief that technology infusion into vehicles is creating or already has in part created a 5th class of drivers. who are little more than circus animals riding in or on vehicles which remind me of Post turtle politicians these drivers are in positions they have no business being where they are they could not be there without the assistance of those who made the vehicle's systems, those systems have elevated their confidence above their experience and when something goes wrong or happens they have no clue what to do. 
The advent of power steering reduced the need to have physical strength to drive the inclusion of power brakes reduced the requirement of strength a little further.
no argument both of these did make vehicles safer to operate.
the addition of automatic transmissions reduced the skill level required to drive a vehicle.
Just about the only real improvement to come down the pike in my opinion that was true safety related to a vehicle was the invention of steel belted radial tires. 
I class everything else as quasi safety related allowing lessor drivers to survive, since vehicles already had PS/ PB and automatic transmissions to reduce driver fatigue nothing else is relevant given a driver has the proper skill levels, experience and most of all attention to the task at hand.

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PJs (Dec 17, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 15, 2018)

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## Toolmaker51

IMO Technical infusion is the salesman perspective; few automakers can sell what was hot last year. Their [some] customers would not purchase Xthousands worth if you can join "a 5th class of drivers. who are little more than circus animals riding in or on vehicles" was a sales pitch. 
Observations of useful improvements well taken. I hope remarkable gas mileage is best result of the auto-transmission. Compared, I don't know, with lame hide-away wipers. Takes all the fun out of icy mornings...

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## Frank S

taking all the fun out of icy mornings I do this by simply plugging in an extension cord into an inline coolant heater go out of a morning the engine is at a near low operating temperature the natural convection and circulation of heated coolant through the system slows or even in some instances prevents ice from sticking to the warm windshield the cab is well above outside ambient the engine is warm to the touch and it starts imeadiatly even though it had 500,000+ miles on the old IDI non turbo engine. 
I still am a firm believer that a manual transmission in a skilled operator will yield better fuel mileage except possibly when the auto transmission as they are designed today are more similar to auto controlled manual gear boxes with as many as 8 or more gear ratios. We now have locking converters that function almost like a direct coupled clutch instead of the old slush pit turbine vanes which while great at transmitting a higher torque advantage and smoother start off than a friction clutch could. even at the expense of not having good gear reduction in the gear train. 
I have compared the fuel consumption reports of my bud's truck since we installed the 18 speed compared to when it had the 10 speed his fuel mileage per gallon consumed went up an astounding 20% over a 150,000 mile summery. 
the 17 year old truck with 950,000 miles on it still shows a lower cost per mile than the newer 2018 trucks running a similar amount of HP but with automatic transmissions can obtain. even if you consider those trucks as being paid for like his is.

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Toolmaker51 (Dec 16, 2018)

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## Ralphxyz

re: "I do this by simply plugging in an extension cord into an inline coolant heater"

I loved being in Alaska and seeing every parking meter had a outlet or even a cord for the engine heaters.

Ralph

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## Toolmaker51

> .....re; 
> I have compared the fuel consumption reports of my bud's truck since we installed the 18 speed compared to when it had the 10 speed his fuel mileage per gallon consumed went up an astounding 20% over a 150,000 mile summery. 
> the 17 year old truck with 950,000 miles on it still shows a lower cost per mile than the newer 2018 trucks running a similar amount of HP but with automatic transmissions can obtain. even if you consider those trucks as being paid for like his is.



Soon [as if not busy enough] it'll be time to exercise wallet moths IYKWIM. Ain't no trucker but have what should be advantageous in my operation; occasional OTW to haul back machine & material finds, and local for construction materials to complete the building. 20' flatbed 1979 F8000, CAT3208 non-turbo, Fuller 13, tandem differential, 4 duals, 52k GVW. It was a transit mixer, then a construction [tilt] flatbed still. Bought from local construction yard. Looks like hell but drives very nicely. Being I can't have a fleet of trucks, this and a low-boy forklift trailer should do pretty well. 
I wish the 'Trick My Truck' reality program was still operating, would be a great candidate. But all those were tractor/ sleepers.
Later year, no visible differences, other than stake pockets. Even the same wheels, with mixer sized rubber. And this lists 3x more $ with higher road miles.

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## Frank S

> Soon [as if not busy enough] it'll be time to exercise wallet moths IYKWIM. Ain't no trucker but have what should be advantageous in my operation; occasional OTW to haul back machine & material finds, and local for construction materials to complete the building. 20' flatbed 1979 F8000, CAT3208 non-turbo, Fuller 13, tandem differential, 4 duals, 52k GVW. It was a transit mixer, then a construction [tilt] flatbed still. Bought from local construction yard. Looks like hell but drives very nicely. Being I can't have a fleet of trucks, this and a low-boy forklift trailer should do pretty well. 
> I wish the 'Trick My Truck' reality program was still operating, would be a great candidate. But all those were tractor/ sleepers.
> Later year, no visible differences, other than stake pockets. Even the same wheels, with mixer sized rubber. And this lists 3x more $ with higher road miles.



 Drive it sown to Texas sometime and we'll trick it

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## Toolmaker51

> Drive it sown to Texas sometime and we'll trick it



Hoooooboy. I have such a list for her; starting with waaaayyy bigger tanks. Two 50 gallon seems short range. I keep forgetting to check for a PTO, but must be to run pump for the bed, cylinder is there. A rail lift gate, 4k min. Pintle hook, safety chain loops, glad hands for trailer. Receiver hitch for little trailers. Sliding winch rails. Re-wire in conduit, all LED's. Underbed boxes. Bed for dog between the seats.
Oop's, starting to sound like a owner-operator. 
A day cab doesn't stop me, chasing a gem is worth driving to retrieve.

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## Frank S

> Hoooooboy. I have such a list for her; starting with waaaayyy bigger tanks. Two 50 gallon seems short range. I keep forgetting to check for a PTO, but must be to run pump for the bed, cylinder is there. A rail lift gate, 4k min. Pintle hook, safety chain loops, glad hands for trailer. Receiver hitch for little trailers. Sliding winch rails. Re-wire in conduit, all LED's. Underbed boxes. Bed for dog between the seats.
> Oop's, starting to sound like a owner-operator. 
> A day cab doesn't stop me, chasing a gem is worth driving to retrieve.



Maybe I need to have Bob drop by with the landoll and winch it on to the trailer I've got some of that stuff just laying around.
Remember it would be Franknized and probably with my Kryptonite steel though.

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## ranald

> I don't or won't own a SUV. My status has never been measured by 4 wheels [sometimes 2 though].
> Bulk of SUV owners are victim of advertising "you can go here, you can do this, come back from there..." nonsense; thereby convinced of their new found invincibility. Sorry! 
> Drive down any street. Take pictures of SUV's, even most 4 x 4's, with dirt in the wheel wells. Maybe, if they forgot to hose down the driveway. 
> Sorry!
> Hereabouts evidence another vein of SUV jockeys; as if 24" wheels and O-rings for tires enhance SU handling portion of SUV...
> Sorry!



There is an interesting article in Dec 2018 of "Unsealed 4X4 " magazine(issue 057: P. 35-42) that covers a LOVE_HATE Relationship for a serious traveller owner of a 4x4 vehicle where (in this case Iveco) the manufacturer hasn't done the homework before release of the vehicle. Very dangerous & expensive problems for driver/owner & occupants. probs encounted with poor brakes (failed after 1 k during a 7k downrange incline) becoming so hot as to loosen wheel nuts, destroy most breaking parts & ignored by service agent. He adapted F250 & Cadallic gear & discs to resolve after being told it can't be done. Transfer case blew apart as there was nothing to hold a circlip in place=cant be done but he resolved it with a custom make clamp to hold the circlip in place and no more planetry gears falling out but voids the warrenty. The transfer had a design faulty breather causing more problems than fixing.( this reminds me of a Kubote B1750HST I purchased & during assembly, the staff tightened the seat over the trans breather which blew out in under 2 hours on the clock-human error here though) .He extended the breather & re-engineered the trans mounts to correct this.Voiding warrenty again but couldn't use 4wd with confidence as computer was forgetful! Installed a plug & play diff lock computer after colabaration with folk in South america experiancing same issues-certainly don't want to be stuck near an erupting volcano.Installed exhaust brakes, fixed other stuff. GREAT READ.

I would have set a match to it as I would have been unable to resolve the issues: the cost of resolution by experts would be unrealistic also, esp when "it can't be done" by service mechanics.

I had a friend who back traded his fully optioned "sahara" for an Audi Q7 V8 and was so so happy.

All in the right technology, I guess, even if an experienced driver.

cheers

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Toolmaker51 (Dec 16, 2018)

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## Frank S

When you have a vehicle that develops problems and the techs cay it can't be done. Just turn the vehicle over to a bunch of rock climbers or mud boggers or off road racers there is nothing that can't be done to those guys.

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PJs (Dec 17, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 16, 2018)

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## Jon

1:40 video of logging truck turnaround:

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baja (Feb 17, 2019),

bigtrev8xl (Feb 17, 2019),

KustomsbyKent (Feb 11, 2019),

neilbourjaily (Feb 11, 2019),

ranald (Feb 9, 2019),

Scotty1 (Feb 11, 2019),

Seedtick (Feb 11, 2019),

will52100 (Feb 11, 2019)

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## ranald

I like that specialized/designed draw bar that allows that. I wouldn't like to try that with my 3m by 2.2 m tipper pig trailer.

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## PJs

Must be some sort of slipping Yoke that allows the trailers to become parallel?? Impressive considering the terrain and proximity to the edge!!

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## Toolmaker51

> Must be some sort of slipping Yoke that allows the trailers to become parallel?? Impressive considering the terrain and proximity to the edge!!



We saw the rig here for wind farm pylons, traversing road to bridge corners. That showed a yoke, but I'd bet it wouldn't jackknife. 
Guys like this aren't in every motor pool, that's certain.

Sometimes I have trouble with my dinky 10' tilt bed with other vehicles in parkway. A little grade in roadway before my apron, then quite a grade for my drive, it's easier to 'back down' than 'back up'. The physics aren't obvious, but mirrors tell more.

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PJs (Feb 10, 2019)

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## Frank S

When the German household goods packing team showed up at my quarters to pack our goods up for shipment back stateside they had a straight truck and a wagon trailer much like the one ig the logger video. They managed to get the trailer and the truck parked in 2 parking spaces with the front of the trailer and the back of the truck right at the side walk filled both conex boxes and left without moving a single vehicle parked next to them. I was genuinely impressed.

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PJs (Feb 10, 2019)

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## Toolmaker51

> When the German household goods packing team showed up at my quarters to pack our goods up for shipment back stateside they had a straight truck and a wagon trailer much like the one ig the logger video. They managed to get the trailer and the truck parked in 2 parking spaces with the front of the trailer and the back of the truck right at the side walk filled both conex boxes and left without moving a single vehicle parked next to them. I was genuinely impressed.



Moving from California [WHAAAT?] we had an issue. Female neighbor, somewhat off her rocker anyway, was sore at her only friend moving away. Aware trucks were to arrive, but not exactly when, she parked in front of _our_ house 3 days. Her intent obvious, always parking inside locked gates, wife directed vans onto lawn...
They were thrilled, saving many hundreds of feet walking 10' instead of 40'...
Very little stood in the way of my Fräu.

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## Jon

Nice turn!



Your browser does not support the video tag.

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PJs (Feb 13, 2019),

ranald (Feb 12, 2019),

Seedtick (Feb 13, 2019)

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## ranald

Looked like all six wheels were steering : better than my old Kubota G1800.
never seen anything like it. thanks for posting Jon!

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## Toolmaker51

Yes it definitely has an operator in the rear cab. Been used in cities a good long while. Articulating buses achieve same effect with only one 'driver', they are hinged much like a truck and trailer. When density of cities increased and fuel was issue, routes changed once the idea became reality.

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PJs (Feb 13, 2019)

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## Jon

Your browser does not support the video tag.

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Seedtick (Apr 8, 2019)

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## Frank S

> <video controls autoplay loop>
> <source src="https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmt-forum/1952_cadillac_deville_fifth_wheel_turnaround.mp4" type="video/mp4">
> Your browser does not support the video tag.
> </video>



We've got him boxed in now there is nowhere for him to go. Wait What's he doing? Did you see that Al? how are we going to explain to the capt. what just happened? Yeah there goes my new Sargent's stripe.

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