# Off-Topic >  Choice of finishing - burl veneer

## rendoman

HI all!
I'm undecided about the finishing of my new conical horn with burl veneer.
Tru-oil could be a nice choice, fast, easy to apply and nice. I would like to not try again shellac, too slow and difficult to have a perfect surface. I never tried tung oil, I remember the linseed boiled was good but very long. Bees wax a nice and natural finishing, but not polished as I remember.

Any advice?

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## Crusty

It's hard to beat True-Oil. Many thin easy coats, followed by wet sanding using linseed oil and a thinned finish coat can make for a stunning finish that's easy to do. I've built several musical instruments using it and it's never let me down. If you're going to color the wood don't use stain because it hides the beautiful wood grain and instead use Angelus Leather Dyes (but practice first on scrap).

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Jon (Dec 17, 2019),

rendoman (Dec 17, 2019)

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## rendoman

Thank you for the advice!
I was thinking about the dark color of the finishing. When I built the last speakers I used dark walnut burl, I tried to apply Truoil on some scraps, the burl has become very dark. A friend told me to use Yellow stain to brighten up the pattern, I decided to use clear shellac (I think modified with Yellow). This time I have some very nice red and very clear parts, I would like to keep the color close to the original as much as possible. Do you think I should use the Yel color on only dark surfaces? About Leather dyes, do you think they are better? I have a dark one, it seems the mix is very uniform

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## Evergreen

> Thank you for the advice!
> I was thinking about the dark color of the finishing. When I built the last speakers I used dark walnut burl, I tried to apply Truoil on some scraps, the burl has become very dark. A friend told me to use Yellow stain to brighten up the pattern, I decided to use clear shellac (I think modified with Yellow). This time I have some very nice red and very clear parts, I would like to keep the color close to the original as much as possible. Do you think I should use the Yel color on only dark surfaces? About Leather dyes, do you think they are better? I have a dark one, it seems the mix is very uniform



If you want to maintain the original color of the veneer or close to it, a good choice for the finish would be Pure Tung Oil from places like Woodcraft or Rockler. You want the "pure" stuff, not what many folks sell as Tung Oil. The pure stuff will make the grain pop and you'll have very little color change. Boiled Linseed Oil also could be used, but it will give you a slightly darker finish. For a top coat, Zinsser Bulls Eye Seal Coat would be a good choice for sealing the veneer. It is a de-waxed blond Shellac that will give a nice shine and minimal color change.

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Jon (Dec 17, 2019),

rendoman (Dec 17, 2019)

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## rendoman

Thank you! 
I will search for pure Tung oil, and not the mixed products available in normal shops here.

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## Crusty

Tru-Oil and the other catalyzed resin finishes do color the wood darker. If I wanted to clear finish I would try GluBoost Fill-n-Finish Pro because it produces a very hard and water clear finish, but it does require final buffing to bring it to a gloss. I've never used it myself but I've seen a couple of guitars finished with it and it's very nice plus it's a hard and protective finish.

Just like parts aren't parts, dyes aren't dyes so your results may vary depending on the dye you use. The standard is TransTint dyes but they're very expensive and some luthiers have found that Angelus Leather dyes produce equivalent results much cheaper. Be forewarned though that dyeing wood isn't a slop it on and go process - there's much to be learned along the way to produce a desired effect, but when done well they can produce beautiful finishes including stunning 3D visual effects in wood grain (called chatoyance). 

For comparison, if dye particles were the size of ping pong balls then stain particles would be the size of pickup trucks and that's why stains obscure the wood grain.

If you don't want to be that experimental then nitrocellulose lacquer purchased from a luthier supply (Luthiers Mercantile for instance) would also produce a nice water clear finish. For a project that size I would just purchase several rattle cans. Always spray entire surfaces with it - it's impossible to make spot applications of it that don't show.

Always let your layers fully cure before any subsequent working with whatever finish you're using. Some finishes can take weeks before they're ready.

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Jon (Dec 17, 2019),

rendoman (Dec 17, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 18, 2019)

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## Toolmaker51

"Chatoyance" 
I strive learning something new everyday. What relate to craftsmanship and engineering [in the English sense] likely the favorites. 
Interestingly, Apple, MS and the web in general don't practice what should be their greatest asset. I'd estimate 90% or more terms I explore register squiggly red underlines. So then; how effective can the marketing programs tracking us be really all that effective? Instead, I receive ads; millenial-centered trash, gaming programs, women's underwear, and unlimited pointless pursuits - never counterbore sets, bearings, tool steels, dog food, proper fitting socks . . .

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rendoman (Dec 17, 2019)

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## Jon

Chatoyance; good one. Two short vids demonstrating it.








More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatoyancy

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rendoman (Dec 17, 2019)

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## rendoman

Thanks for info, it's even curious the name "chatoyance", I never heard about, I will use soon!

I'm a bit scared about using a lacquer with air pistol, the internal part of the horn is hard to approach and the risk of drops is high, above all for me.

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## Crusty

Chatoyance is flat out beautiful in highly figured maple.

That will be a challenge to spray and for something that small I'd likely use a rattle can rather than a sprayer (but maybe an airbrush). You can always hang it up and spray upwards to minimize drops splattering on it and always stop and start your spray off the target because that's when most splats happen. I might think long and hard about a careful brush job though it won't look the same as sprayed but it can look very nice anyway.

Fred I think highly of Dickies All-Purpose Work Stain Resistor socks.

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rendoman (Dec 17, 2019)

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## Toolmaker51

> Fred I think highly of Dickies All-Purpose Work Stain Resistor socks.



See what I mean? That variety is one of logical types I've not tried yet. 
Hello, Google?
And yes, thiis Fred is a sock conisur, connysir, aficinado . . . I buy socks.

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## rendoman

Advent calendar, day 10

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## Crusty

I found this video of Rob O'Brien finishing a guitar with Royal Lac, a product that I wasn't familiar with and it seemed to me that it might be what you're after. I know that if you do what Rob says to do, how he says to do it that you'll have a finished piece that you're proud of and you can achieve a guitar quality finish just with hand application and polishing.

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rendoman (Dec 19, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 21, 2019)

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## rendoman

Thank you! It's Always nice to learn new things!
Looking the video it seems that the last passage, maybe the real polishing job, it's done with the cotton wheel and paste. Unluckily I can't enter the horn with the drill or the vertical grinder, the throat of the horn is tiny and the risk of damaging edges is high.
I'm watching different types of wax (common italian brand, easy to find here), I don't know the differences between types, one is pure beeswax, one mixed with carnauba and the last one without turps. 

https://www.ceranovecento.com/vernic...nitura-en.html

https://www.ceranovecento.com/colla-...entare-en.html

https://www.ceranovecento.com/colla-perline-en.html

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## Crusty

Watch the entire video - he first demonstrates how it can be polished by hand to what I think is a nice appearance. Of course it will never equal a buffing machine mirror finish but some concessions have to be made in an imperfect world. 

In general, I've found that Maguires products do a nice job, even on wood and if I recall correctly he mentioned one as an alternate for hand polishing. I did a little work on an expensive violin once and I used Flitz to finish polish it and it came out nice.

I don't think you'll be very happy with the subdued finish of beeswax and something carnuba based would produce a result closer to what you're after.

I just reread your post and finally snapped to the fact that you're in Italy and likely don't have easy access to many of the products that I mentioned. Try to find someone in your area who makes or repairs musical instruments and go there and ask what he/she uses for the type of project you're making. Buy him/her lunch and you'll likely get more information than you can remember.

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## rendoman

Thanks for advices
In fact here it's quite hard to find everything that's not of wide distribution. Hardware store has common products (for each type of goods), if you have to buy the perfect product you have to search online, almost always from abroad, If you're lucky in Eu with no custom tax, otherwise you're doomed. Moreover, if you search for "pro" goods, you have to ask to specialized sellers that usually don't want to sell to a private Citizen without Vat number (or they ask a minimum cost up 100 euro).
I can find shellac (flakes) or a ready to use lacquer, many types of wax, linseed and (not easy) tung oil, the only good one available in gun shop is the Tru-oil. It's even possible to find good automotive clear coating. 
I tried to put some wax on Iroko wood, the veins seem very nice, surely it's not glossy, but I think it could be a nice choice (after maybe some 5-6 hands) plus the hand wool polishing)

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Toolmaker51 (Dec 26, 2019)

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