# Tool Talk > Wheels >  Jeep drives down a steep ravine - GIF

## Jon

Jeep drives down a steep ravine.



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Previously:

autobiography of a Jeep
Jeep CJ-5 Go-For-Digger
Chainlink extreme 4x4
The Sherp Russian 4x4 vehicle

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MeJasonT (Dec 15, 2017),

MIGuy (Oct 9, 2019),

oldcaptainrusty (Dec 14, 2017),

Scotsman Hosie (May 14, 2019),

Seedtick (Dec 14, 2017),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 14, 2017)

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## Ralphxyz

Insane to say the less.

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## Frank S

aside from the camera angle making the grade seem much steeper than it was noticeable by how much the front of the jeep dropped just as he was disembarking from the final rock. Still the grade must have been greater than 30 ° possibly approaching 40° at times. A 30 ° slope translates to a 60% grade pretty much the limit on most off road vehicles ability to climb or descend without the assistance of being wedged in a grove such as the tires were on the jeep even being wedged an 85% grade (40°) would be a feat nearing on impossibility. I said nearing the impossible, as there are several rock crawlers with documented proof to not only descending but ascending grades well above 173% (60°) angles for short distances.
All and all I say this guy is a genuine rock crawler

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## MeJasonT

My spidy senses tell me this is still impressive driving, not all 4 wheel drives stand up to the name.
I got my Honda CRV stuck in true comical fashion, i got blocked in a car park by my neighbouring business unit tenant - the only way out i could see was to drive down a foot path to an adjoining car park. The barrier on this car park was locked and there was a mound of earth at either side of the barrier, i attempted to drive over the hump and in true comical fashion got stuck via the belly pan rocking forwards and backwards. Perhaps giving it welly to attempt the jump was a huge mistake. :Lol:

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Scotsman Hosie (May 14, 2019)

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## Frank S

Since I have never been much into cars, I only own trucks or SUV's based on truck platforms I had to look up a picture of what a Honda CRV was, and yes I would say your car is much better suited for hard smooth pavement or the occasional graded dirt road. and mildly inclement weather. By the same token one would not want to try any even mildly serious off road antics in any dealer stock SUV Just like the $ wheel drive pickups the farmers have around where I live are only good for getting around on their range areas and fields never for trying to traverse an arroyo or flooded creak without being modified.
Television sales ads often show new vehicles being put through horrendously severe conditions, steep climb angles crossing deep uneven arroyos at odd angles jumping over large piles of dirt and so on but what they never show is how many vehicles are damaged or destroyed in making the commercials. One thing they absolutely don't want anyone to know is for all extreme stunts the air bags are removed or disabled for safety concerns.
SO if you tried to jump your vehicle over a dirt pile consider yourself lucky if you didn't end up with a broken nose or worse from a deploying air bag.
My oldest daughter had hers broken trying to do much the same thing as you described doing in your Honda

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Paul Jones (Dec 19, 2017),

Scotsman Hosie (May 14, 2019)

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## Loose Ctrl

I used to build 4x4's like that back in the early to mid 90's. Most were Jeep CJs or Wagoneers from the 70's and early 80's. We did a few Ford and Chevy trucks. It was great fun to see them out in the woods being used to climb rock faces or climb down them. Tires are the most important part along with having extremely low gearing in the transfer case or using double transfer cases to get down a cliff like that. Rear steer helps but it wasn't something we got into much.

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## Frank S

Loose Ctrl, did you marry the front part of a pair of NP 205's or use 1 205 and 1 203 for the marriage to get a double transfer? A guy I knew was doing something like that to get a duel rear out put for 6 wheel drive

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## Frank S

I couldn't help but notice this jeep had rear steer but ridged axles. So many hard core rock crawlers are now going with full independent suspensions with extremely long travel which does many things first it allows for better control of camber even for on board independent camber control allowing them to maintain more tire to surface contact. Think of that as giving them ability to drive inside of a cylinder or over a sphere and have full cross section of the tread of all 4 tires in contact at all times with the proper air pressure.which can be selected by the driver on the fly as well. Another plus is the ability to have a lower center of gravity while maintaining center vehicle ground clearance

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## Loose Ctrl

> Loose Ctrl, did you marry the front part of a pair of NP 205's or use 1 205 and 1 203 for the marriage to get a double transfer? A guy I knew was doing something like that to get a duel rear out put for 6 wheel drive



It's been over 22 years since I was into building 4x4 vehicles. Going from memory, we used the upper front half of a 205, had an adapter machined to mate the shaft to a full 205, and built a plate and tube coupler to hold the T cases together. We did some other stuff with the Borg Warner 24x series of T cases. I don't remember all the details. There's plenty of info around the web on the subject. We were just following the lead of the other big 4x4 shops and DIY'ers that were featured in magazines. Most of our builds got started after a customer brought in a mag or video and asked us about building them the same doubler set up. To be honest, if a person has the resources to DIY a double T case, it may be worth it. If it has to be farmed out, an Atlas or other aftermarket T case would probably be cheaper in the long run. I remember our first double T case took two weeks between finding parts, farming out machine shop work, and patching it all together. A few guys simple used a divorced 205 behind whatever T case their vehicle came with. It made for a really long driveline with a really short rear drive shaft and crazy long front drive shaft. It was mostly done on extended/crew cab long bed pickups and full size four door SUVs like Suburbans and Wagoneers.

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## Loose Ctrl

> I couldn't help but notice this jeep had rear steer but ridged axles. So many hard core rock crawlers are now going with full independent suspensions with extremely long travel which does many things first it allows for better control of camber even for on board independent camber control allowing them to maintain more tire to surface contact. Think of that as giving them ability to drive inside of a cylinder or over a sphere and have full cross section of the tread of all 4 tires in contact at all times with the proper air pressure.which can be selected by the driver on the fly as well. Another plus is the ability to have a lower center of gravity while maintaining center vehicle ground clearance



I'm not up on the 4x4 trends. Here in the mountains where I live, eveyone drops IRS and IFS in favor of one ton axles. My plan is to build a full floating high pinion 9 inch axle for the rear of my truck and high pinion 509 for the front. A 509/609 is using a 9 inch axle and installing the steering knuckles from either a Dana 50 from a Ford F250 (509) or Dana 60 from a F350/450 (609). IFS and IRS use really weak constant velocity joints instead of U joints on the axles. They are weak in OE form. However, I am sure that aftermarket companies have master the art of making them stronger. Also, IFS and IRS only allows flex at one corner, which can cause the vhicle to drag over obsticals. They lack articulation compared to a straight axle. Again, some company somewhere has probably over come this problem. 

This pic shows the possible problems with idependent suspension compared to solid axle.

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## Frank S

That is along the lines as to how I thought some were done. in my 79 dodge 1 ton after I doubled the frame I dropped a spicer 5531c and a G630 transfer case in behind the dodge 4 sp the front and rear diffs were from a 69 Chevy C60 This was not for any rock climbing or off road adventure truck this was in what I called my Montana bound welding rig If I would do it over again I am sure I could come up with a more reasonable way of doing so but this time it would have to be diesel.instead of the wimpy little mopar 360 pulling all of that extra weight and gears it barely had enough power to get up to 60 MPH

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## Frank S

> I'm not up on the 4x4 trends. Here in the mountains where I live, eveyone drops IRS and IFS in favor of one ton axles. My plan is to build a full floating high pinion 9 inch axle for the rear of my truck and high pinion 509 for the front. A 509/609 is using a 9 inch axle and installing the steering knuckles from either a Dana 50 from a Ford F250 (509) or Dana 60 from a F350/450 (609). IFS and IRS use really weak constant velocity joints instead of U joints on the axles. They are weak in OE form. However, I am sure that aftermarket companies have master the art of making them stronger. Also, IFS and IRS only allows flex at one corner, which can cause the vhicle to drag over obsticals. They lack articulation compared to a straight axle. Again, some company somewhere has probably over come this problem. 
> 
> This pic shows the possible problems with idependent suspension compared to solid axle.



Some guys I know have had good success with the AM General HM1 drive train but fabricate their own upper and lower control arms and long travel coil overs full 4 corner articulation hydraulic control to adjust the camber. I used to toy around a bit with the little M151A1 parts for a couple of guys but they were into small engines and light weight mobility

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## Loose Ctrl

> That is along the lines as to how I thought some were done. in my 79 dodge 1 ton after I doubled the frame I dropped a spicer 5531c and a G630 transfer case in behind the dodge 4 sp the front and rear diffs were from a 69 Chevy C60 This was not for any rock climbing or off road adventure truck this was in what I called my Montana bound welding rig If I would do it over again I am sure I could come up with a more reasonable way of doing so but this time it would have to be diesel.instead of the wimpy little mopar 360 pulling all of that extra weight and gears it barely had enough power to get up to 60 MPH



I'm not familiar with Mopar stuff. I do know enough that your rig had some weight to it. It should have been good on snow covered roads. How many fuel trucks had to follow you around? LOL That poor 360 was struggling.





> Some guys I know have had good success with the AM General HM1 drive train but fabricate their own upper and lower control arms and long travel coil overs full 4 corner articulation hydraulic control to adjust the camber. I used to toy around a bit with the little M151A1 parts for a couple of guys but they were into small engines and light weight mobility



Yep, those guys are using techniques to make things work that I have no knowledge of. I'll have to do some research on them, it sounds like interesting stuff.

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## Frank S

Lets just say I am glad that gas wasn't the price it is today the total rigged up weight was near 14K Stupidly heavy considering that other welders running around with their bone stock 4 X 4 1 tons with only a machine and a torch and very little tools were around 8500 to 9000 but for some reason when it came time to get into the bad places they got stuck running their on their 245 16's with their big 454s and automatics,there I was with 285/70 19.5 Bridgestone mud grips with my 360 /4 sp / 3 sp /2 sp having to pull them out if you got enough gears and can get down low even a small engine can be a power horse

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Loose Ctrl (Dec 16, 2017)

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## Jon

You guys might like a new experiment we've been trying at 4x4Builds.net. We've been listing daily-updated posts from ONLY build threads on dozens of 4x4 forums, and ONLY from new posts that include photos. You can click on the top "Models" tab, to see only the latest photo posts in build threads for specific 4x4 models.

For example:

Jeep CJ: latest build thread posts
International Harvester Scout: latest build thread posts
Suzuki Samurai: latest build thread posts
Mercedes Unimog: latest build thread posts


Each snippet links directly to the exact new forum post, so you don't have to go searching through a long build thread. You can essentially browse multiple daily-updated 4x4 build threads, without having to scan through dozens of forums. The site uses a combination of automated forum scanning software that I wrote, plus human review.

Still a work in progress, but the concept is interesting.

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## Jon

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## Frank S

I wonder if wearing brown pants when attempting these climbs are optional or mandatory.

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PJs (Sep 3, 2018),

Scotsman Hosie (May 14, 2019)

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## Jon

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PJs (Sep 3, 2018),

Scotsman Hosie (May 14, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 2, 2018)

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## Frank S

Road! where I'm going I don't need no road. I wonder if he was the only one to do this successfully.

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## marksbug

awe that aint nothing..hear hold my beer..........crap I dont drink.

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## Jon

When you realize you forgot the milk.



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Frank S (Sep 7, 2018),

KustomsbyKent (Sep 11, 2018),

marksbug (Sep 7, 2018),

PJs (Sep 10, 2018),

Saxon Violence (May 16, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 14, 2019)

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## marksbug

possiably practicing for a nascar race.....or the dinner bell rang...or....the wife and girlfriend were standing at the end of the trail...together yup thats probably it.

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## Frank S

the limit to the amount of abuse these guys can put their equipment through hasn't been dreamed up yet.
He must be sporting well over 500 HP to clear that much air with all 4 tires. Actually looks like it would be fun to try. If I were 40 years younger that is.

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## marksbug

these days power is real eazy to make ,it's the rest of it that is hard to keep togeather for the long run, you cant account for everything.this rock that rock,stump loose bolder with wife on the other end.... I did mud truck motors years ago it was a blast,the trucks name was Mudweiser. they has 3 of them an did pretty good. no return spring on the throttle, wfo the entire time.then hit the kill switch when done. what a blast.

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## Jon

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jackhoying (Sep 22, 2018),

PJs (Sep 23, 2018),

Saxon Violence (May 16, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 14, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 21, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 6, 2018)

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## bruce.desertrat

This looks like one of the racers that some nutcase drove across a lake on Top Gear a few years back.

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PJs (Sep 23, 2018),

Scotsman Hosie (May 14, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 6, 2018)

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## Jon

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Saxon Violence (May 16, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 14, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 6, 2018)

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## Jon

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Alan Purdy (May 14, 2019),

Andyt (May 14, 2019),

high-side (May 14, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 14, 2019),

Seedtick (May 13, 2019),

Troll Hunter (May 14, 2019)

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## Ralphxyz

Good thing his rear tires were in the back!

Ralph

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Jon (May 14, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 14, 2019)

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## crotchetyoldbastard

Easy breezy. Build up a cushion and keep on pushin'.  :Smile:

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## McDesign

There's a Steven King story about a guy that traps a mob boss's Cadillac that way, excerpt it narrowed to a pinch, and then our hero buried him and paved over it . . .

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## Troll Hunter

And that Jeep was a Land Rover Defender!

Mike

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## old kodger

Also the approach angle on that fourby is about 85 degrees, which means that until he's actually vertical the front wheels are still driving

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Jon (May 20, 2019)

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## racardon

I recognize this steep ravine. It's The Chute on a trail called Double Sammy at Sand Hollow in Hurricane, Utah. It is steep. I've never been down it, but I've been up it three times. First time with my friend in his Can Am 2 seater. Second time in my RZR XP4. Third time with my wife as a passenger in the XP4. Yeah, we are cheating using UTVs or side-by-sides. If you want to see a truly impressive video, Google "Grampa's Jeep on Double Sammy during Winter 4x4 Jamboree 2021". Go to the 33 minute mark and watch.

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## Jon

Here it is:

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