# Tool Talk >  Vintage work crew photos

## Jon

Four photos of vintage work crews. Links to fullsize images with each photo.

Stone masons. Waterford, Ireland, 1903.
Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



Railroad workers. Cerra de Pasco Railway, Peru, 1920.
Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



Farmers lining up to ship their produce and livestock at the Apple Hill train station. Ontario, Canada. Undated.
Fullsize: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



Television repairmen. Boston, Massachusetts, 1970.
Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Chlor (Oct 15, 2019),

chy_farm (Jul 30, 2020),

eccentrictinkerer (Feb 13, 2019),

greyhoundollie (Sep 7, 2018),

volodar (Jun 17, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

In the picture of the farmer it looks more like they are lined up to go seed a wheat field than buy or sell livestock or produce.
I see more than a dozen grain drills and not a head of lettuce or a cow in sight

----------


## Jon

Cotton mill workers. Indianapolis, 1908.
Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Al8236

That is the same thing I thought! looks like they are lined up to fill their drills when the train brings the seed. Even a single row drill at the beginning of the line

----------


## Jon

Welders at Alabama Dry Dock and Shipbuilding Company in Mobile, Alabama, 1944.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Frank S

That last picture reminded me of years ago a young lady came to my shop to apply for a welder's position. We all know the saying about first impressions, but this was one time my wife and I both were glad we could look beyond the first impression stigma, which was admittedly quite difficult. My wife did most of the prescreening of job applicants. having them fill out the forms getting a brief work history background and explaining our policies and requirements regarding work place safety showing up for work in a timely manor, wearing the proper personal protection equipment and clothing where and when required designated work area housekeeping no horseplay, things like that, before they were sent to me. So when I saw my wife heading over to where I was with this young woman in tow I was confused. From her attire a pair of micro Daisy Dukes cut offs that would not have gotten past censors in even an R rated movie and a sports bra and tennis shoes I wondered why my wife would be bringing her to meet me unless the young woman was in need of help or something. 
This is Susan my wife said and she is here applying for a pipe fitter/ welder position here is her resume and application form. After briefly scanning the papers I said, Susan please don't take offence but I cannot take you to the welding area and let you take a test wearing what you are almost not wearing out of safety concerns for both yourself and the men and the other female in there working the first thing that will happen is one of them will trip over their tongue and break a leg or something.
I'm sorry sir for the way I am dressed it was not my intention to apply for a job in shorts but it is a 40 mile drive one way for me to go home and change I saw your sign on my way to visit friends but really needed a job so I stopped. I have my welding gear in the truck of my car if you will give me a couple minutes I'll get it because I really do need a job and I promise you I won't let you down.
The rest is history she turned out to be an excellent pipe/ fitter, and better than average welder she stayed with us for 2 or 3 years

----------

eccentrictinkerer (Feb 13, 2019),

Girogearloose (Sep 8, 2021),

olderdan (Jan 16, 2018),

PJs (Jun 14, 2018),

rgsparber (Aug 24, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (May 26, 2018),

volodar (Aug 19, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Making cowlings for airplanes, 1928.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...p_fullsize.jpg

----------

KustomsbyKent (Jun 17, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

Check out that planishing hammer

----------


## Jon

Jeep assembly line at Willys-Overland Motors plant. Toledo, Ohio, 1941.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

KustomsbyKent (Jun 17, 2018)

----------


## mklotz

Skirts, aprons and heels on an assembly line. My how times have changed. Moreover, I can't even see any tattoos.

----------

HobieDave (Mar 5, 2020),

Paul Jones (Feb 3, 2019),

rgsparber (Aug 24, 2018),

thehomeengineer (Jan 2, 2020),

TSiArt (Aug 27, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

OSHA would have a field day if they saw that today

----------


## Jon

Blacksmith shop. Allentown, Pennsylvania. 1910.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------


## mklotz

I grew up in Allentown. And, no, that's not me on the far left in that photograph.

----------


## Jon

Cigarette factory. Mexico City, Mexico. 1903.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Frank S

5 rows of at least 25 stations per row power shaft driven from under the floor " Note the drive belts passing through holes in the floor. It took very quick and nimble fingers to keep up a pace with everyone else

----------


## Jon

Wooden stave water pipeline being assembled. Yukon, Canada. 1908.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Sep 23, 2018),

that_other_guy (Sep 3, 2018)

----------


## Jon

After realizing that this next photo was another Allentown one, I poked around a bit. The massive industrial action in turn-of-the-century Allentown was well-documented. Some picks:


Traylor Engineering. Allentown, PA. 1910.
Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg




Weilbacher Silk Mill. Allentown, PA. 1902.
Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg




Allentown Platform Company (a wagon works). Allentown, PA. 1910.
Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



Allentown Planing Mill. Allentown, PA. 1911.
Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg




William Taylor Company. Allentown, PA. 1919.
Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Jon

Steam donkey engine work crew. Washington, 1921.

----------

Toolmaker51 (May 26, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Women working in the welding department at Lincoln Motor Company. Detroit, Michigan, 1918.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Captn Roy

Hmm, I see 1 welder & 2 cutters. Anyone else see the same? Have a look at the helmets, Says volumes. Oh and the woman on the right is sure as _ell gonna learn what the one in the center would have learned at one time or another. The 6" cuff on her pants gives that lesson away. Some even learn to tie their boots up proper real quick also! Women or men makes no difference at all. We all seem to burn up pretty much the same. No big gender differences there. Yup! Bit of red hot slag slides down a slightly open boot or into a rolled up cuff and one gets to learning real, real quick. Oh ya and all the while looking around to see who's watching your silliness.

----------


## Captn Roy

Ya, no Tats. What's up with that? Heehe. High heels, low heels, no heels. Everyone was on deck and working there tails off to get those Jeeps off to where they had to be. They were so vital back then, it literally could mean life or death to some of the fellas in Europe.

----------


## Frank S

Captn Roy I am not too sure you are seeing what you think you are seeing. here is not a single pair of trousers/ pants in the photo. the one in the right or the center or any other woman there, what you are seeing there is the tail of their work apron not extending all the way below the hem of their dress or skirt.
As far as welding it would appear they are all welding using oxy/gas in which case they would normally only wear goggles instead of helmets there are some who may be wearing head bands to keep their hair up out of the way. 
While arc welding was invented by 1800 it was mainly in the form of carbon arc between to carbon electrodes and adding a filler rod to the molten puddle. Coated metal electrodes came along around 1914 in Sweden. But coated stick electrode welding didn't become popular until years later, tig and mig welding wasn't even invented by 1918.
Any bench welding that would have been done in 1918 would have been done using an oxyacetylene torch. Prior to that it may have been oxygen and a coal gas & hydrogen mix.
I taught a welding class in the Army in the early 70's where I demonstrated how to make a coated electrode in the field for an emergency repair of a broken steering tie rod using a coat hanger or other wire like mechanics wire by making a solution of baking soda salt toilet paper and water. by making a slurry then dipping the wire into it several times then laying it on the hot exhaust manifold of a deuce & a half until dry then used jumper cables connected to the 24 volts of the batteries. After welding it I drove it around the motor pool to show that it actually could work.

----------


## Frank S

that cart in the fore ground looks like a load of liberty engine cylinders and heads, They were probably welding the intake or exhaust flanges on them.

----------


## Captn Roy

2nd more detailed reply to the reply that Frank S so graciously made references regarding my eyesight or lack thereof. I also received an email regarding this reply and this also fuels the need to further comment on the topic.

First point of interest that should be noted would be the topic of the Thread that I was commenting on. This was "Vintage Work Crew Photos" Seamingly by Jon.

Secondly the photo in the thread added by Jon dated 01/16/2018, bearing the #5 in the top brown border on my screen is in fact the image that I commented on! I hit the Reply with the arrow that veers of to the left and away I went. My comments were only to appear a time later beneath another image that I had NOT made any comment on whatsoever, listed as #19 and again posted by Jon.

I do not know why the comments do not always follow the exact image we comment on but, I had noticed this on other occasions with comments by other folks and thought no big deal as it was in the right thread and usually by the comments to go back a page or so was simple right? Hmm. The photo I had commented on was showing 3 Woman in shop garb doing their thing in 1944. The photo above when my comment appeared also had 3 woman in quite different shop garb but in 1918 doing a stationary type of work in a shop that manufactured some type of parts in Michigan. There are other examples of this type of incident happening and one can be seen on this same thread. There is a comment regarding the wagons lined up at the train that was made and showed up just below another photo about TV service or repair guys. That one was real easy to relate to as it was right close by the original photo so easy to put 2&2 together on that one, right. I thought so & so it goes without saying that there could be more, simple deduction.

Frank S, does not seem to think along the same line by the colorful references he made regarding what I was seeing or thought I was seeing in the photo I commented on. Would not have been to serious if we were talking about left and right Tie Rod Ends. The topic was women and welding. The comments were out of line and condescending to say the least. Only a blind man or a complete idiot would have made those kinds of errors in the clothing or even the gear. For god sake, I talked about helmets and he says I saw goggles and a bandana. Then I'm entitled to a lecture on welding just to top off the insult, like a good swift kick in the rocks Frank finishes with the "in the Navy" thing.

Gee Frank, Thanks for being so considerate. Being scholarly and all I'd of thought that you would have figured the comment placement thing out and then gone over the rest of the great thread Jon put together and there would have been no doubt as to what I was talking about. By your comments one really would think I knew nothing about welding and commented crap on anything. 40 sum odd foot high stainless liquid foodstuffs tanks, Dozens of company re-fits on anything from stainless screws to gas pipe to filter towers to steel silo's to in shop rolling and fitting to making a REAL nice ride for my MIG and one for my ROD WELDER TOO! Heehe. Most fun I had was cutting up the stainless recyclables we brought back after a refit. 38-40 degrees celsius out in the back 40 cutting stainless with a Rod. Ever done that Frank? You did teach your class about cutting rods Hunh. I know it's not much experience compared to yours and yes Frank I do love a good lecture as much as the next guy. Just not when it's meant to humiliate or belittle me.

Oh and I took my deuce and a half home with me after my stint Frank. It's out back, Glad to send ya pic's if ya like.

Respectfully, RR

----------


## Frank S

Captn Roy If my reply to your post came off as condescending or offensive in any way then I deeply apologize.
Yes replies often land after other replies and not in the intended placement the poster desires. when threads in forums take on a life of their own sometimes numbering in the 100's of ages on some forums I frequent it becomes next to impossible to know which post a member may be referring to unless they use the reply with quote function and even then there is one particular forum where by the time you search through all the "R+Q's" in the reply it is difficult to even locate the posted reply.
Yes cutting Stainless with rods, been there done that perfect way to use up rods that are no longer suitable to make coded welds 
Like cutting Aluminum sheet with an oxyacetylene torch by clamping a sacrificial strip of slightly thicker mild steel over it not a pretty as a plasma rig but it gets the job done. 
Or 2 men carbon arc gouging welds apart using only 1 machine 1 gouge connected to the stinger the other to the ground. don't try it with a Lincoln pipeliner but a 400 amp Hobart diesel machine will smoke through boxes of 1/4" carbons all day long and never stutter. 
Take a length of 1/8 or 1/4" pipe connect it to an air supply preferably the oxygen from your torch and your stinger turn your machine up to Maxine unless using a Hobart 400 amp then better only go just over half way. and lance through the length of a frozen bucket pin spray it with a garden hose then tap it out with a 4 lb shop hammer

----------


## Jon

Felling a tree. I believe this is the famous "Mark Twain" redwood, but I'm not certain. Late 1800s.

----------

philipUsesWood&Brass (Aug 6, 2018),

PJs (Jun 14, 2018),

that_other_guy (Sep 3, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

Can you imagine how many strokes it took with the 2 man saw to fell that tree? that looks like a pair of 12 ft blades welded together.

----------


## mklotz

Yes, it's the "Mark Twain"...

National Geographic Found

----------

PJs (Jun 14, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 31, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Members of the Women's Royal Air Force sewing fabric aircraft wing coverings. 1918.



More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_Royal_Air_Force

----------

Captn Roy (Jun 13, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

It is hard to imagine the difference in people or that time period with the ones of today `Had in not been for many of our grand mothers or great grand mothers filling in at the factories making things for the planes trucks tanks and general weaponry our grand fathers or great grand fathers could never have done the things they had to do to win the wars

----------

PJs (Jun 14, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 18, 2018)

----------


## PJs

Thank you Jon, this has become quite a thread, thanks to your great sense of history! I always enjoy seeing pictures of where we come from and how we did things to get to where we are. To me, our ancestors, men or women, garnered up the creativity, fortitude, stamina and will to take care of business out of that basic instinct to continue and thrive as best they could through necessity or just a dream of something better. Pictures like these speak volumes in detail about the *stories* of these peoples lives. Their expressions, stance, clothing, working conditions and the products of their efforts give us opportunity to explore those stories and maybe make some up...either way it's the stories that define them and their character.

When my Dad passed in 07' I ran across an old tin type of my GGGpa (1814-1875) back in MO. circa 1870ish a few years before his passing. It was in pretty bad shape but I kept wondering about his stories and decided to restore it in PhotoShop. Huge undertaking and about 80hrs of work, but the more it cleaned up the _stories_ from his face, dress (actually fixed a slight tear in his jacket, as I'm sure he only had one) and the background, really started to come through for me and the stories from Gpa (1876) as a kid going to town for supplies in a wagon by himself first time when he was nine, which was a 3 day trip, came forward again.

This was actually my first restoration but learn a lot at the pixel level.
 

The picture of the Mark Twain Redwood, reminded me of my dad working in the Redwoods just after the WWII seeing what he had on a tanker in the South Pacific, with a bunch of stories about tough logging with donkey engines and cables snapping and Tough Terrain, eating breakfast at the Samoa Cookhouse in those days. Redwoods are special to me too and spend as much time up there as I can, eaten at the Samoa (Best biscuits and gravy next to Gma's) and cherish the ageless serenity of them. Also took my son up there in his youth so he could experience that and the history of it. He then went on the wheat harvest for a year or so and being a John Deer mechanic toward the end before joining the AF for another 23 years of service and another 30 in community service. Then on to me making mine and my son his and now 6G's forward his son making his stories.

On it goes _story after story_, sewing a fabric or tapestry of our lives as a species interconnected through lineage, our work, defining character and a foundation of those people of creativity, fortitude, stamina moving through time, necessity and dreams of becoming. I once had an epiphany of sorts in the valley in Yosemite waking up having to do my morning drain and while doing it I looked up and saw a 1000' of granite before me, carved and mottled by ice, water and time, and thought what stories they must have, and shared with us...

Capturing, sharing and talking about these seems important, especially now days, to me anyway. Rattled on here, but Great Thread guys...thank you again, Jon for creating such a great place to create and share the _stories_!

 :Hat Tip: PJ

----------

Clockguy (Dec 2, 2018),

Frank S (Jun 14, 2018),

Paul Jones (Jun 15, 2018),

rlm98253 (Jun 16, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 18, 2018),

volodar (Jun 17, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

Thanks for sharing PJ, Like you I have developed a keen interest in this thread I dare say should it run into the hundred's of pages I doubt if my interest will waiver.

----------

Clockguy (Dec 2, 2018),

Paul Jones (Jun 15, 2018),

PJs (Jun 15, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Mt. Lowe Railway. California, 1893. Colorized. Named after the _very_ legendary Thaddeus S. C. Lowe.

Full size image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...y_fullsize.jpg


Opening day ceremonies.
Full size image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...y_fullsize.jpg



I wonder if there's a long German word for wistfully wishing that you were born in a different era. I was listening to stories from an old hotrodder years ago, and I said something like: "I wish I was a hotrodder in the 1930s. I was born at the wrong time."

Then he says: "I was born at the wrong time too. I wish I was a cowboy in the old West."


More:

Professor Thaddeus Sobieski Constantine Lowe
Water and Power Associates
Lowe airship patent #1,061,484
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Lowe_Railway
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaddeus_S._C._Lowe

----------

PJs (Jun 16, 2018),

Seedtick (Jun 17, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

Jon the MT lowe incline car was what I patterned a tram after for a guy at a lake.

400 ft drop in 1000 ft total length of pipe railway was 1500 ft total drop just over 600 ft

----------

Captn Roy (Aug 15, 2018),

Jon (Jun 16, 2018),

PJs (Jun 16, 2018),

that_other_guy (Jan 8, 2019),

volodar (Jun 17, 2018)

----------


## PJs

Nice pics Jon. The stories from the links are great and Lowe was quite the self made wizard. The witness names on the patent looked familiar for some reason but didn't find much. Colorizing is always thing of Taste but this looked pastel good but a bit crisp on the people to me. 

Good story on the Cowboy! I also agree about being a hotrodder back then too, or even Dad's stock car days from the early 50's. The pic on my home page is of one of Dads wins in "Old 99" and my SC400 behind, being the dream of that. I colorized the 99 for kicks but restoring the BW was a bit of work, probably shot with a Hawkeye Brownie as I remember. 

On my best dreamy days I've often had the thought of driving a Stutz Bearcat off across country with goggles and a flat cap. Had the opportunity once to finish restoring one that the owner was murdered and his mom wanted me to finish it for him and get the other stuff to the auction house, as he also had a 27' Rolls and a bunch of other stuff...but had quite the shop, foundry and all. Didn't work out because it needed a year at least of work to finish it right plus shop costs and she couldn't afford that, nor I as a young buck with 2 little ones. I did help inventory and organize it all for her and lined up a few buyers for some of it. Always wondered where it went and who finished it.

PJ

----------


## PJs

Frank, You sure have covered some ground in your days! Always amazed...Hell of a book to read, I bet!

----------


## Frank S

pJ, I probably have covered a lot of ground if compared to someone who had worked for wages all their lives. I could blame or give credit to Clarence Ward the old blacksmith I apprenticed under up until a bout a year prior to going in the Army. after I had gotten a little older around 14 he told me if I took in a job at the shop it was my job do it right do it over or ask for help no problem but satisfy the customer He wouldn't even tell me how much to charge. I'd collect the money then hand it to him and he would hand most of it back to me only keeping what he figured was fair for use of shop and materials the rest of the time I worked for him for a dollar an hour still pretty good wages for a kid in the middle 1960's My 6 years in the Army or the last 3 years that is at night weekends or any other time I could squeeze it I had a cadre of Officers and senior Enlisted who kept me busy working on or rebuilding their vehicles Made more at that than my Sgt pay. Once out I was just too arrogant or independent to punch a time clock. SO I had to cover lots of ground to feed the wife & kids if you know what I mean. 

I built that tram during the time I was building docks on 3 lakes. the Tram was raised and lowered by 2 endless cables 1 attached to the tram and the brake, there were 3 rails 2 for the tram and 1 in the center for a brake, if the cable broke the weight of the tram would be held by the jaws being forced against the pipe The 2nd cable could then be locked to the tram by a clamping device and the car could be brought back to the top dragging the brake. It was powered by a windless, nothing more than a 3 HP motor and a gear box with an 18" diameter drum mounted on either side

----------

that_other_guy (Jan 8, 2019),

volodar (Jun 17, 2018)

----------


## PJs

Frank, I do know what you mean about arrogance & independence and _having_ to cover lot of ground. Most take one job for chump change and a lot of grief and learn to get by, or if lucky find a foundation to enjoy and to work and grow with. As a kid (Jr. Hi/HS) I mowed lawns (7 regulars) had a 200 house paper route and apprenticed the local with TV/Electronic shop guy "ACE" and went to school and got good grades too, all at the same time...and still had time to build and learn hobby stuff...even picked walnuts one summer...never do that again. I've Always had multiple irons in the fire burning in my belly whether I punched a clock, salary or for myself as an owner. It never really stopped but did fluctuate (Rhythm of life) in quantity of hours/day and number of irons. To me it's satisfying that hunger to learn, do, and experience different things. Mostly I chose, won some and sometimes got kicked in the teeth, but mostly...keep looking for as many of the _twinkly lights that light My candle, as I can handle_. 

Still, I'd Read Your book! Ever read Chuck Yeager's Autobiography? Got it when it first came out, outstanding imho, covered a lot of ground and funnier than Heck.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jun 18, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

I'm a test pilot not a sardine in a tin can. or maybe he said spam in a can

----------


## volodar

Apple Hill photo...hope the UFO's didn't spook the horses!

----------

PJs (Jun 17, 2018)

----------


## PJs

Ran across this physics article this morning and thought I would pass it on here. Saving historical documents is a big deal and a lot of research continues to find new ways to unearth the treasures and cultures of the past through this medium. In this case it's about daguerreotypes (the earliest form of commercial photography ~1830 and quite deadly chemically). 

I rabbit hole'd early photography history about 10 years ago and this is a pretty (although quite expensive) big breakthrough. _And I thought working at the pixel level was snow blinding but 10 microns requires more than trifocals.
_
On a side note, historically speaking, the Synchrotron is a derivative of the cyclotron and was graced in the late 60's to get a tour of the Bevetron (billion electron volts) and control room up on the hill at Berkeley, which is a specific type (derivative) of a Synchrotron for proton acceleration in particle physics research. Just one of the electromagnets which I (6'6") could stand up inside was strong enough to kill you when energized. It also had it's own substation to run it so as not to dim the streetlights in Berkeley.  :Big Grin: 

All this just gives some perspective of how far we've come in our workplaces (capturing a moment in time) and technologies (digital photography) and brings full circle, 50 years for me and 188 years of human achievement for humankind...so we can see and learn from the past...Wow! Not my most elegant words but you get the picture...

Here is the short YT clip from the article giving some explanation of seeing into the past with nothing visible in the present...




 :Hat Tip:  PJ

----------

Frank S (Jun 25, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

We need more vintage work crew pictures.
Thrashing day 1901 San Juan island North of the Olympics in the Pacific North West.

----------

Jon (Jul 17, 2018),

PJs (Jul 17, 2018),

that_other_guy (Sep 3, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Sailors on the deck of the French armored steam cruiser Amiral Aube. Date unknown, but the Amiral Aube was in service in the early 1900s and into WWI.

----------

PJs (Jul 17, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

No Idea what the smith and his 2 helpers are making but there seams to be a lot of interest in it.

----------


## Jon

Threshing crew. Queensland, Australia, 1899.

----------

PJs (Aug 1, 2018)

----------


## Jon

The nose of the the USS Akron being attached. The Akron was a helium airship with a frame of Duralumin. In operation in the early 1930s, she went down in a thunderstorm, killing 73 of 76 crewmen and passengers.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...p_fullsize.jpg

----------

Clockguy (Dec 2, 2018),

PJs (Aug 5, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

When ever anyone talks about airships often the first thought that comes to peoples minds will be the fiery explosion of the Hindenburg. Ask them any thing about American or British airships and all you will receive is a blanks stare, or they may say oh yeah the Goodyear blimp. Ask them about the Akron the Macon or the R101, R38 the Deutschland, Deutschland II, Schwaben and you get nothing. Ask if they know which was America's America's first rigid dirigible and what happened to it 
The Shenandoah, while not being the most devastating crash in history in terms of loss of life it is possible that only the space shuttle Challenger had a larger land area crash site

----------


## mklotz

Anyone who has read Nevil Shute's autobiography, _Slide Rule: Autobiography of an Engineer_, will know about the R101 and the dangers of letting schedules dictate the launch of new technology, airship or spaceship, i.e., Challenger.

----------

Frank S (Aug 4, 2018),

philipUsesWood&Brass (Aug 6, 2018),

PJs (Aug 5, 2018),

volodar (Aug 13, 2018)

----------


## Jon

16"/45 (40.6 cm) gun being gauged following a boring operation. 1942.



More: United Kingdom / Britain 16"/45 (40.6 cm) Marks II, III and IV - NavWeaps

----------

olderdan (Aug 12, 2018),

PJs (Aug 12, 2018)

----------


## olderdan

I really like these vintage work crew archives, this one reminds me of 1959 when I started my apprenticeship at Vickers Armstrong, I actually started in 1958 aged 15 so had to wait a year serving as a post boy until I was 16. That was a fantastic experience as I would visit every Dept on a daily basis and got to see all aspects of manufacturing, they did a lot of MOD work, ships guns etc and the place was full of shops just like this one. I got friendly with a lot of machinists and you soon learnt which ones to go to who had cigarettes and chock bars for sale from their lockers.
Happy days.

----------

PJs (Aug 12, 2018)

----------


## PJs

That looks to be quite the boring bar on the floor there too!

Nice Story Olderdan, Thank You!

----------


## Jon

Calutron Girls - a group of female high school graduates hired to monitor a calutron (a type of mass spectrometer) used in the making of the first atomic bomb in The Manhattan Project. The Calutron Girls weren't told exactly what they were monitoring; it was years until it was revealed. They observed a legendarily strict code of conduct that forbade socializing, discussion of their job, congregating in large groups, etc.

Y-12 National Security Complex. Oak Ridge, Tennessee. 1945:
Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg


The woman in the front-right of the photo is Gladys Owens, who recalled to historians in later years:



> She did not socialize on the job, she remained constantly focused on the meter reading and the necessary adjustments she made to keep the beam current maximized in the calutrons (although she had no idea that was what she was doing). In fact she was not even allowed to discuss her work at all with anyone at anytime. When asked what happened to people who talked too much, she said "I know of people disappearing." One young girl who did not return to her dormitory for her clothes was said to have "died from drinking some poison moonshine."



Shift change at Y-12:
Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg


Running a lie detector test on a potential worker:
Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Aug 15, 2018),

volodar (Aug 23, 2018)

----------


## mklotz

I remember reading an article that mentioned that men were not considered for the job because of their inability to tolerate the boredom of the task. Apparently the women were permitted to gossip while working and that allowed them to deal with the tedium. 

(Although not stated, I presume men were allowed to gossip too but it just didn't work for them.)

----------

johnsmachines (Oct 1, 2018)

----------


## mklotz

An interesting side note to the calutron story is the use of silver...

These magnetic spectrometer isotope separators required immense magnets to generate the fields needed to divert the isotopic ions. I could relate the story but the extract from Wikipedia below is more concise and contains all the pertinent details...

===============================

The Chief Engineer of the Manhattan District, Colonel James C. Marshall, and his deputy, Lieutenant Colonel Kenneth D. Nichols, discovered that the electromagnetic isotope separation process would require 5,000 short tons (4,500 tonnes) of copper, which was in desperately short supply. However, they realized that silver could be substituted, in an 11:10 ratio. On 3 August 1942, Nichols met with the Under Secretary of the Treasury, Daniel W. Bell, and asked for the transfer of silver bullion from the West Point Bullion Depository. Nichols later recalled the conversation:

He explained the procedure for transferring the silver and asked, "How much do you need?" I replied, "Six thousand tons." 'How many troy ounces is that?" he asked. In fact I did not know how to convert tons to troy ounces, and neither did he. A little impatient, I responded, "I don't know how many troy ounces we need but I know I need six thousand tons – that is a definite quantity. What difference does it make how we express the quantity?" He replied rather indignantly, "Young man, you may think of silver in tons, but the Treasury will always think of silver in troy ounces."[63] 

Eventually, 14,700 short tons (13,300 tonnes; 430,000,000 troy ounces) of silver were used,[64] then worth over $1 billion.

===============================

The Wikipedia article goes on to explain the reclamation of the silver after the war and its return to the Treasury. Read the whole story here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calutron#Design

----------

Jon (Aug 15, 2018),

PJs (Aug 15, 2018),

that_other_guy (Sep 3, 2018),

volodar (Aug 19, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

> An interesting side note to the calutron story is the use of silver...
> 
> These magnetic spectrometer isotope separators required immense magnets to generate the fields needed to divert the isotopic ions. I could relate the story but the extract from Wikipedia below is more concise and contains all the pertinent details...
> 
> ===============================
> 
> The Chief Engineer of the Manhattan District, Colonel James C. Marshall, and his deputy, Lieutenant Colonel Kenneth D. Nichols, discovered that the electromagnetic isotope separation process would require 5,000 short tons (4,500 tonnes) of copper, which was in desperately short supply. However, they realized that silver could be substituted, in an 11:10 ratio. On 3 August 1942, Nichols met with the Under Secretary of the Treasury, Daniel W. Bell, and asked for the transfer of silver bullion from the West Point Bullion Depository. Nichols later recalled the conversation:
> 
> He explained the procedure for transferring the silver and asked, "How much do you need?" I replied, "Six thousand tons." 'How many troy ounces is that?" he asked. In fact I did not know how to convert tons to troy ounces, and neither did he. A little impatient, I responded, "I don't know how many troy ounces we need but I know I need six thousand tons – that is a definite quantity. What difference does it make how we express the quantity?" He replied rather indignantly, "Young man, you may think of silver in tons, but the Treasury will always think of silver in troy ounces."[63] 
> ...



long interesting read.

----------


## Jon

> Plate Steel Spiral Casing for 70,000 horse-power Niagara Falls hydraulic turbine unit at the Allis-Chalmers Manufacturing Company erecting shop. The casting inlet diameter is 15 feet while the overall diameter is 50 feet. The plate thickness varies from 7/8 to 1 1/4 inches. Note the automobile in the lower right corner for scale.



More: https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Image/IM2045

----------

Captn Roy (Aug 18, 2018),

PJs (Aug 19, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Changing the wheels of a Union Pacific passenger engine. Los Angeles, California. 1936.

----------

PJs (Aug 19, 2018),

volodar (Aug 19, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Workers map the Cambridge electrical system. 1950.

----------

Frank S (Aug 23, 2018),

PJs (Aug 23, 2018),

that_other_guy (Sep 3, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

OK I'm familiar with the A B D E and other size drawings but what would you call that

----------

PJs (Aug 23, 2018)

----------


## PJs

> OK I'm familiar with the A B D E and other size drawings but what would you call that



I think that is 42 Extra *M*(magnum) size. Got to be 15' long and probably 6'-8' wide. I don't see a magnetic compass on the sheet but looks to be a scale and drafting squares and what looks to be an ink bottle and pen...OMG...Ink on 42M. And for gosh sake don't drag your tie through it! Wonder if they had white out back then when somebody messed up...hate to start over on that beast. I've printed E size roll paper about 6' long on a big HP ink jet before...but this is ludicrous speed.

----------


## Frank S

I'm betting it is more like 10 or 11 ft wide

----------


## volodar

Thanks Jon. I do find these staged pictures scary, like something from a distopia. I'm commenting on the three Manhattan project photos.

----------


## Jon

Roots Blower Company factory. Indiana. Probably right around 1900.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...y_fullsize.jpg

----------

MIGuy (Aug 27, 2018),

PJs (Aug 27, 2018),

Seedtick (Aug 25, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

I hope those rotors were in full lock down when the 3 guys crawled inside for the picture. TO a blower of that size they would have only been lubrication for the rotors if they turned.

----------


## Jon

Testing the Peacemaker submarine. New York Harbor. 1885.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Aug 27, 2018),

Seedtick (Aug 25, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

I think the guy in the center hatch had the right idea he is wearing all of his PPE, a deep diving suit and helmet

----------


## PJs

> Testing the Peacemaker submarine. New York Harbor. 1885.



Thanks Jon for a good rabbit hole dive. An interesting shape for a sub to me, but more interesting is the caustic soda (NaOH) engine it used and 1500lbs of lye used to drive it. Turns out that engine was used in locomotives a decade or so prior to this.

Found this article on "THE HONIGMANN CAUSTIC SODA LOCOMOTIVE: 1885" and some vintage drafting's of the systems. There are few others about them but the issue with these was the inefficiencies and more so the hazardous nature of high pressure lye going through the pipes and of course the lye itself is Highly Caustic. 

 

Those were some brave souls to get in a box with 1500 pounds of Lye and go under water...for gosh sake!!

----------


## PJs

> I hope those rotors were in full lock down when the 3 guys crawled inside for the picture. TO a blower of that size they would have only been lubrication for the rotors if they turned.



Agreed! Looks like a blower for a ship. I thought about casting and machining that beast and then "How many CFM is that"? Then Mrs. PJ walked by and noted how dapper those men were sporting those Mustaches of the day! Pics like these sure bring out the intrigue.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

And of course would that fit on the 49 Willies on a funny car frame and a ~450hp real 302, I help make a show car out of?

Thanks Jon!

----------


## Frank S

PJs , I don't think we could shoe horn in onto a 49 Willis. But it would sure be a blast to build a rat rod platform that cold incorporate it. Maybe hang it off the side of a 16V 156 Detroit lets see 16 x 156 CID cylinders x 50 fubic feet per rotor rotation turning at 3000 RPM. Yep that ought to just about be enough to propel a 50,000 Lb rat rod to 60 in 4.8 seconds Not sure how it would do a Bonneville though

----------


## PJs

You're probably right Frank, the plenum would be 14 feet high on a Chevy 302 and the 450hp might have a hard time driving it.  :Stick Out Tongue:  In either case the motorcycle wheels on the front would have to go but the N50 15's on the back _might_ be ok.

A 50k lb rat rod...now there is a picture. Think that might be the Root of all evil rat rods!

----------


## Jon

Blacksmith shop at Walsh Island Dockyard and Engineering Works. New South Wales, Australia, 1916.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Captn Roy (Sep 2, 2018),

PJs (Aug 31, 2018),

that_other_guy (Sep 3, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 3, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

Now that's a blacksmith shop

----------


## PJs

> Blacksmith shop at Walsh Island Dockyard and Engineering Works. New South Wales, Australia, 1916.



Those look like steam power hammers by the pipes running in at the top. Great Picture of the shop and the faces on the crew all look happy!!

Thanks Jon, another fabulous vintage find!

PJ

----------


## Jon

Z13 Class locomotive assembly. Sydney, Australia. 1915.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Sep 1, 2018),

Seedtick (Sep 1, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 3, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

Love that guyed gin-pole hoist set up over the boiler stack.

----------


## Captn Roy

> Those look like steam power hammers by the pipes running in at the top. Great Picture of the shop and the faces on the crew all look happy!!
> 
> Thanks Jon, another fabulous vintage find!
> 
> PJ



Hey PJ, I remember those days also. The guys were mostly happy to be at work, doing stuff that they enjoyed and being proud at the end of the day for getting it done like it should be. We worked our butts off and earned every penny we got. There were projects that were amazing to see at the end of it all and there were a lot of folks standing there with that smile. They all felt that they were a part of something good. Hard to explain, but that smile says it all.

RR.

----------

PJs (Sep 10, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 3, 2018)

----------


## Jon

A Wright Aeronautical XRJ47-W-5 ramjet installed in a test chamber of the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics' (NACA) new Propulsion Systems Laboratory at the Lewis Flight Propulsion Laboratory.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg




From NASA.gov:




> Construction of the facility had only recently been completed, and NACA engineers were still testing the various operating systems. The Propulsion Systems Laboratory was the NACA’s most powerful facility for testing full-scale engines in simulated flight altitudes. It contained two 14-foot diameter and 100-foot-long altitude chambers that ran parallel to one another with a control room in between. The engine being tested was installed inside the test section of one of the chambers, seen in this photograph. Extensive instrumentation was fitted onto the engine prior to the test. Once the chamber was sealed, the altitude conditions were introduced, and the engine was ignited. Operators in the control room could run the engine at the various speeds and adjust the altitude conditions to the desired levels. The engine’s exhaust was ejected into the cooling equipment. Two 48-inch diameter XRJ47-W-5 ramjets were used to power the North American Aviation Navaho Missile. The Navaho was a winged missile that was intended to travel up to 3000 miles carrying a nuclear warhead. It was launched using rocket booster engines that were ejected after the missile’s ramjet engines were ignited.



More: https://images.nasa.gov/details-GRC-1952-C-30961.html

----------

PJs (Sep 10, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Whipsawing lumber. Bennett, British Columbia, Canada. 1898.

----------

PJs (Sep 10, 2018),

volodar (Sep 10, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Stamping out car bodies. Budd Manufacturing Company. 1940s.

----------

EnginePaul (Sep 16, 2018),

rossbotics (Sep 21, 2018),

Seedtick (Sep 15, 2018),

that_other_guy (Jan 8, 2019)

----------


## mklotz

Reminds me of this guy...

----------


## PJs

Man, that is a press for stamping Real body parts! Don't make body panels like that any more Or 6000 lb cars for that matter. That is a beauty of a press!! Imagine what it took to design and fabricate all of the components then pour a footing and erect all that heavy Iron, and install the details, including the oil line for the flywheel bearings! Heavy Industry at it's finest, Amazing! Then there is the crew loading and unloading, cranking out heavy parts...day in and day out...that is a days work! 

Interesting colorization of the pic and quality contrast work also.

Great Pic Jon, Thank You!

PJ

----------


## Frank S

Frank Wants one. No idea what I would do with it Maybe use it for cracking walnuts around Christmas time, but think of the conversations it could be the topic of

----------


## Jon

Forging press in the Krupp factory. Essen, Germany. 1928.

----------

Beserkleyboy (Sep 17, 2018),

Frank S (Sep 17, 2018),

neilbourjaily (Sep 17, 2018),

PJs (Sep 17, 2018),

rossbotics (Sep 20, 2018),

Seedtick (Sep 17, 2018),

that_other_guy (Jan 8, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 17, 2018)

----------


## PJs

Oh My, Jon!! The housing castings for the stanchions (6'-8'Ø-Holy Kadoodle!) are incredible! Looks like Nasa stuff from 1928! Wonder what they are making with this.

On one of my trips to Germany I went by their HQ in Essen to an industrial park next to them that did ASiC chip design for a project I was working on. It's a beautiful old school campus. Wish I would have had time for a tour after seeing this.

For others first rabbit chase...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krupp

*Thanks Jon*, for another fabulous pic of "big" old school manufacturing and work crews (although tiny ones).

PJ

----------

Beserkleyboy (Sep 17, 2018)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Thanks, Jon for posting this! I just spent an hour starting at Wikipedia and realising where I knew the name from! They(ThyssenKrupp) are huge here in AUS with lifts and escalators and heaps of other heavy engineering and marine work. The site at Essen sent me back to a '92 trip to Germany, Czech Rep, Austria....Thanks again
Jim

----------

PJs (Sep 17, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Forging press in the Krupp factory. Essen, Germany. 1928.



Using people of 90 years ago for scale is misleading, humans were shorter then.
So get a load of the wrench in lower left. Both guys could stand in it around their waists. Or the crane block, the chain has enormous pitch. I like the clamping collars supporting the upper casting. Imagine placing them and positioning them individually, not to mention 2 halves and studs tying them together.
Hard work but I'd have liked it.

----------

PJs (Sep 17, 2018)

----------


## PJs

> Using people of 90 years ago for scale is misleading, humans were shorter then.
> So get a load of the wrench in lower left. Both guys could stand in it around their waists. Or the crane block, the chain has enormous pitch. I like the clamping collars supporting the upper casting. Imagine placing them and positioning them individually, not to mention 2 halves and studs tying them together.
> Hard work but I'd have liked it.



Perhaps they built it at ground level after the stanchions were in place and pulled it up with that gantry system then tightened it then the lower section and so on. But the foundation and Pad had to be half again that big and a thing to behold being laid!

Randy Newman said it best I think... :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Frank S

I can't say that I have been the the Krupp complex that I know of. I'm sure I have probably been by it a few times because I have been to Dusseldorf and Dortmund many times and Essen is pretty much right between them.

----------


## 12bolts

I wonder if they used bolts like this to hold it together?

----------


## basil3w

> Perhaps they built it at ground level after the stanchions were in place and pulled it up with that gantry system then tightened it then the lower section and so on. But the foundation and Pad had to be half again that big and a thing to behold being laid!
> 
> Randy Newman said it best I think...



Re: Randy Newman: Were you referencing the the 'shorter humans'?

----------

PJs (Sep 18, 2018)

----------


## PJs

> Re: Randy Newman: Were you referencing the the 'shorter humans'?



Yup, in follow up to TM51's comment about folks being shorter in those day...and me being 6'6" 25 years later and my dad being born in 27' and was 6'2" and therefore only applies to the anecdotal lyrics of a master musician/bard.  :Big Grin:   :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## PJs

> I wonder if they used bolts like this to hold it together?Attachment 25563



Yup, and probably more than 12 of them. Sorry couldn't resist.... :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Jon

Alcoa 50,000 ton forging press, built by the now-defunct Mesta Machinery. The fullsize images linked below are over 3500px wide, and suitable for framing.

This beauty is a National Historic Mechanical Engineering Landmark. More: https://www.asme.org/wwwasmeorg/medi...ging-Press.pdf

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...1_fullsize.jpg


Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...2_fullsize.jpg


If you are looking for a good entrance to a rabbit hole for enormous presses, just look up "heavy press program", and then take that route back to The Cold War. Then hang a left, and follow the path back to WWII and invading Soviet forces seizing German presses. From there, keep going back to WWII aviation, then back more to the origins of magnesium press forming. Finally, keep going on that same route, all the way back to the Treaty of Versailles. See ya in 100 hours!

----------

PJs (Sep 19, 2018),

rlm98253 (Sep 18, 2018),

Seedtick (Sep 18, 2018),

that_other_guy (Jan 8, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 19, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

I wonder what the bank would pay me to remove that 50,000 ton press from the facility? Maybe I could talk them into letting me have the salvage of the rest of the building as well.

----------


## PJs

An amazing accomplishment in engineering, materials and manufacturing. Some of the stats and systems are truly mind melting...like 9 foot, 12T check valves that some one designed, cast, machined and built. I'll be spending more time rabbit holing this and others because of my small part in a measly 50t forge press that was actually to be used for military aircraft engine parts with high cycle rates.

Funny too I noticed and remembered a couple of ASME Chiefs (Akers and Gaither) from 5 on the dedication PDF. They were kind of legendary by the time I joined but a great group over all and got a presidential letter and gift on my 10yr. Got quite a few certs, (lean, 6 sigma, etc.) from them over the years too and most in Chicago at MacCormic Place. ASME is a Great resource for information sharing too! Used to log in when stuck on something and get a response in an hour!

*Thank You Jon*...A real monument to cherish and share.

----------


## marksbug

I visited a "machine shop" facility from a world long gone in ITALY last year under the Leonardo De' Vin... oops ...these that spelling thing again, well it was below his big museum in Milan.. well one of them. it was awesome!!! I saw how drawn over mandrill tubing was made long long ago and oh somuch more. I could of spent a month in there. it wasent in the basement it was in the dirt where it had always been and they built on top of it..I gotta go back again some day , I wanted to last april but time was short&never stopped in Milan that trip, we only had 2 weeks. I love ITALY!!!!

I did run some punch presses and other stuff years ago, but compared to that above they were booger squashers.

----------


## Toolmaker51

If that is ALCOA Los Angeles, I've been there. You can't even imagine scale or scope of parts, atmosphere, or the personal feeling of being so small. They'd haul billets and forge something like a linkage, roll and slit sheet, shear thick-ass aluminum...They machined too, but didn't spend time in there. 

When I feel down about not running yet, that stuff; capital, overhead, maintenance, real estate, competition, even brand ™, ®,names of heavy hitters makes me feel WAY better.

Lol Mark. Didn't know booger squashing as industrial process.

[Below, I stole marksbug reply, and awesome typo]

_it'snot industrial..._

----------


## marksbug

it'snot industrial and the big presses I used were oh so tiny in comparison. but if that press were to squash a booger how far do you reckon it would splay out...

----------


## Jon

Pouring a crucible of steel. Colonial Steel Company. Pittsburgh, PA, 1912.



Also found an old PDF brochure from Colonial Steel Company.

----------

Andyt (Sep 23, 2018),

PJs (Sep 23, 2018),

Seedtick (Sep 22, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 22, 2018)

----------


## mklotz

Thankfully, I'll never have to do that but, if I were to, I certainly wouldn't want to do it while standing on a wheeled cart secured in position only by two stalwarts who look ready to run if anything goes pear-shaped.

----------


## Toolmaker51

I'm convinced, not my occupation of choice either. Looks as if fellow in front is blocking wheel with foot while hands grab its rim. I bet cart perches man with loo-oong tong and crucible at brim of receptacle, I'll wager quite heavy full. That eases dispensing into ingot mold.

----------


## mklotz

Being above the receptacle is clearly an advantage. However, doing it from a wheeled platform just doesn't seem like a good idea. Kind of like changing the light bulb in the office ceiling light by standing on your roll-around desk chair.

I sure hope there isn't a big crucible of liquid iron behind him and the boys on the ground are wheeling him around to various molds so he can ladle it out.

----------

PJs (Sep 23, 2018)

----------


## wizard69

Unfortunately I don't work in heavy industry so I seldom see presses of this size. However a few years ago I did take a trip through one of Harley's plants in Pennsylvania and was most impressed with the press they had doing fenders. That press was only about 3 stories tall but still impressive to watch. I can only imagine what it would be like to see that high press operating.

----------

PJs (Sep 23, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Welders working in the Doxford Engine Works Fabricating Department. Pallion, Tyne and Wear, England. 1954.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

greyhoundollie (Sep 29, 2018),

PJs (Sep 23, 2018),

rlm98253 (Sep 25, 2018),

Seedtick (Sep 29, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 24, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Assembling the turbine engine of the HMS Brittanic. 1914.

----------

greyhoundollie (Sep 29, 2018),

Seedtick (Sep 25, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 24, 2018)

----------


## PJs

WoW, the blades are amazing for 1914. Almost look like radiator fins. The sub-assemblies on the floor give a clue about the manufacturing techniques and the guys working in pairs about the assembly. With the taper at the right end, one might assume that to be the inlet. Great picture!

----------

Toolmaker51 (Sep 24, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Shaping bells for loudspeakers. Atwater Kent radio factory. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. 1925.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

greyhoundollie (Sep 29, 2018),

PJs (Sep 29, 2018),

Seedtick (Sep 29, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 29, 2018)

----------


## PJs

Great Pic of the press and the workers face is a tell. 

They were one of the first electronic radio kits for the common household, beyond crystals built as kids. They were pretty much history by the time I got into it but remember working on a couple of old ones during my summer stints as a TV/Radio apprentice with "Ace" in HS. One was a console and another was a desktop. Old electronics like these have a smell I remember fondly and it came up when I saw the picture...and no it wasn't the almond smell from selenium rectifiers...more the shellacked/varnished cloth wrapped wire and components I think. Ace had one of the oldest tube checker (Weston from 1930's) around, and a bunch of earlier tubes back then, and he grew up with these and RCA/Magnivox from the day. As I recall, the chassis on these were really well made probably in SM shops like this.

Pics like these always stir the memories...and olfactory senses.

 :Hat Tip:  PJ

----------

greyhoundollie (Sep 29, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 29, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Now, THAT is a punch press. Not too much tonnage but straight sides and early double crank configuration it seems. The splatters aren't from hapless operators,it's drawing lube. Not to mention line-shaft driven. 
Not some wimpy light curtained high speed OBI, this puppy can hit! An exceptional B&W photo too. 
We should be pleased, the golden age of work and photography managed to coincide. Thank you, Jon.

----------

PJs (Sep 29, 2018)

----------


## Jon

> the golden age of work and photography managed to coincide.



So true. That really is a great theme of this thread.

A double helical gear manufactured by Mesta Machinery. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. 1913.

----------

Clockguy (Oct 2, 2018),

PJs (Oct 1, 2018),

ranald (Oct 1, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 1, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 6, 2018)

----------


## marksbug

under the Leonardo museum in Milan they have those made of wood from long long ago plus some...I was mesmerized ...Im kinda supprized my wife brought me back home.Ill have to go back some day...Im starting to get hungry..and we didnt get to see the entire museumi doubt we saw half..

----------


## marksbug

I presume thats how they were controlling thrust forces. them fellers were smart !!!and oh so talented.

----------


## ranald

Reminds me when I first encountered a Utah coal mine dragline. I stood in the bucket which was like a small carpark for a few cars. Then I wandered over to a rear dumper & I was tall enough to reach the rim of a wheel: about 1971/2.

----------


## hemmjo

I want to see the mechanism that monster gear is part of!!!! Those huge old machines are so awesome.

----------


## Jon

Espen-Lucas saw in a machine shop. 1919.

Found this beautiful beast in the catalog at archives.gov. The search function takes a bit of learning, but there are countless excellent images that aren't getting indexed in Google Images search (a perfect example of The Deep Web). I've seen the vintage ads for these, but I didn't know they made one _that_ big. These are the largest resolution images available.

----------

KustomsbyKent (Oct 2, 2018),

mwmkravchenko (Oct 2, 2018),

PJs (Oct 2, 2018),

ranald (Oct 2, 2018),

rossbotics (Oct 15, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 2, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 6, 2018)

----------


## ranald

Certainly a cut above the rest! Wonder if that "Lucas" is same company as the mobile saw milling machine maker.

----------


## Pa1963

Hey, now. Don't forget to use the guard on this!

----------


## ranald

> Hey, now. Don't forget to use the guard on this!



guard removed for clarity. I've seen some big unguarded blades but that takes the cake...and the arm holding the cake ...and the...

----------


## Jon

New York City Port Authority tunnel police. 1950s.

----------

PJs (Oct 4, 2018),

ranald (Oct 5, 2018),

rgsparber (Oct 4, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 4, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

How would you like to have to ride back and forth in the Lincoln Holland or Manhattan tunnels all day day in and day out in one of those 24" wide vehicles while trying to keep an eye on traffic offenders? And they say the police are paid too much.

----------


## PJs

Let alone breathing in all the built up fumes. I was interested in the vertical CG and how the wheels ran on the track...looks like the outboard wheels ride on/in a different kind of rail (maybe a mono rail) and the inboard are flat rubber type on a smaller dome type track.

----------


## Jon

It speaks to a MUCH more innocent era in urban America.

"You sir, in the striped bowtie, license plate #948, my good man, please curtail your rate of acceleration."

----------

HobieDave (Mar 5, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 7, 2018)

----------


## ranald

> New York City Port Authority tunnel police. 1950s.



N.Y. and I thought he was in a keystone police car that ventured between two trams.

----------


## Jon

Worker holds a 193-pound bolt and nut. This was one of 16 fasteners used to join sections of the 75,000 kW generator shaft for the Grand Coulee Dam. 1942.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg


Note the poster on the wall behind the worker. That's an "Avenge December 7" poster, recently created after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941. Here's that poster's entry from the Library of Congress website: Avenge December 7



Do we still make enormous nuts and bolts like this? Or were these beauties completely replaced by multi-jackbolt tensioners, like these?

----------

PJs (Oct 10, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 6, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 7, 2018)

----------


## marksbug

in the old days they would be no issue carrying them for me. nowdays I would drop my nuts.and probably more.

----------


## Frank S

yep now days if it is over 35 pounds a safety monitoring person will tell the worker to use a lifting and carrying device.

----------


## marksbug

electrick crane?

----------


## hemmjo

I am wondering how many guys it took to carry the wrench for the bolt and nut. Also what is torque spec?

----------


## Frank S

Tighten it just a tight as 10 men can pull on a 10 ft long wrench then go two more rounds

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Worker holds a 193-pound bolt and nut. This was one of 16 fasteners used to join sections of the 75,000 kW generator shaft for the Grand Coulee Dam. 1942. 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



re that 7th of December poster:
I dropped it from this particular writing to not appear warmonger or jingo-istic, but older US readers may recall the immense volume of advertising [more accurately polite propaganda] of WWII. 
Chevrolet, Cambell's Soup, Chris-Craft Boats, Shell Oil, Diebold Safe, PhilCo, ALCOA, Heil Truck Bodies, Timken Bearings, War Bonds, Remington (&) Colt (&) Winchester Firearms and countless other domestic manufacturers ran very distinct, usually full colorful full page advertisements on their particular contribution to the war effort. I don't recall any photographic entries, all were hand drawn and colored artwork. Many were by well known illustrators, including Walt Disney, and some by artistic employees of said company. 
IMNSHO the finest appeared in 'Life" and "Fortune" magazines. Premier selections and those publications ideal placement for such a campaign; large size format, very wide distribution to households and offices alike. "Life" was a weekly centered on photo-journalisim, "Fortune" portrayed vivid interpretation and reporting of "Industrial Civilization". I commented earlier how [this thread] historically fortunate the golden ages of work and photography happened to coincide, with these magazines often near the center of preserving such images. While advertisements mentioned were drawings, mainly due to security issues, artwork depicted mood and implied motion differently than possible with film. Others were fully impressionistic, such as Disney's concept of the Axis, a giant black octopus spanning entire Pacific.

But largest percentage of ads paid less mention of adversaries or goons; the focus/ intent was to lift spirits that American Labor will persevere, then regain composure after hostilities. There I recall one of Chris-Craft; landing craft today - these for tomorrow. meaning they were not absorbed by the war either. "Look ahead with Chris-Craft" - ad of 1945 encourages order now, deliveries...will commence after relaxed wartime restrictions.
And a toast for what bolsters and builds an economy, Manufacturing above all.
Wikipedia has good articles for "Life" and "Fortune"

----------

PJs (Oct 10, 2018)

----------


## Jon

The propaganda from all over the world (and I mean "propaganda" neutrally) in WWII was fascinating, but, yes, agreed, the pro-manufacturing propaganda was especially prevalent in the US. This holds true to the old saying about how WWII was won (with British intelligence, Soviet lives, and American manufacturing), and of course the strong GDP data we have. You can find many graphs about this on the net; they look mostly like this:



IMO, this is what cemented the reputation of America's "Greatest Generation" - when faced with tough times (Great Depression==>WWII), Americans won by working, inventing, building, and manufacturing.

----------

greyhoundollie (Oct 12, 2018),

PJs (Oct 10, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 7, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Grant Porter Shipyard. Building hull. Oregon. 1918.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

greyhoundollie (Oct 12, 2018),

PJs (Oct 10, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 13, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 8, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Cleaning the noses of A-20 bombers. Douglas Aircraft production plant. Long Beach, California. 1942.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

greyhoundollie (Oct 12, 2018),

PJs (Oct 10, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 13, 2018)

----------


## PJs

> Cleaning the noses of A-20 bombers. Douglas Aircraft production plant. Long Beach, California. 1942.



Wonder what those women were thinking about while cleaning the nose modules? Maybe about the guy or maybe a relative sitting in that precarious seat, seeing what they saw? Perhaps just; "I got to get this the best I can for the war effort?"

----------

Toolmaker51 (Oct 10, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

There is one thing for sure if the wives girlfriends mothers sisters aunts and grandmothers filling the hundreds of thousands of jobs that otherwise would not have had anyone to fill the slots the Allied forces could not have won.
We have a tendency to always think of the American women their sacrifices and hardships during that war, but the ladies of GB had a far more dangerous task. Many of whom ran underground railway networks to spirit folks out of danger zones. Many went deep behind the enemy lines on intelligence gathering missions. Knowing that if outed or caught it was certain death through torture.
I hate to turn this into something negative but every time I see a young female "(you can't hardly call them ladies anymore and they barely even fit the description of a woman)" whose complaining or protesting about some frivolous otherwise made up issue in many cases I can't help but think yeah if your grandmother or great aunt were here today she would set you straight in a heartbeat. this is not only limited to the female gender either a huge percentage of males are as bad if not worse.
I have the greatest admiration and respect for the women who serve behind the seances during times of war enduring the hardships of their men being gone having to take care of the home life by themselves and at the same time working in factories producing anything and everything required to hopefully allow their men to come home alive.

----------

glenntref (Oct 18, 2018),

HobieDave (Mar 5, 2020),

Papa Bill (Oct 22, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 10, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

In all of these wartime posts where it is depicting women at work there is one thing you never see. I bet a few will know the one thing I am thinking of

----------


## wizard69

> ...
> 
> Do we still make enormous nuts and bolts like this? Or were these beauties completely replaced by multi-jackbolt tensioners, like these?



Large nuts like that are still common on industrial machinery. Think injection molding presses as one example. Having changed more than a few tie bars in my early years I really have little desire to work with such large nuts any more. It is amazing how old age impacts your desires and work interests.

----------


## Jon

Mix of loggers with their donkey engines. Washington. 1915-1921.

Largest size images available.

----------

PJs (Oct 14, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 12, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

One often wonders if the donkey engines were hauled up and down the slopes into position by winching them selves in place. The trucks at the time may have been able to haul them on the logging roads but where the engines had to be located there would have been no roads even and traction engine of the time would have had a difficult time trying to drag one of those engines up a steep slope. And here I complain about having to carry a 4x4 board more than a few dozen feet.

----------


## marksbug

I think I saw that one time on the history channel before it became the everything not true and staged channel. reality my ass. those guys with the donkey knew reality.

----------


## marksbug

as for the a20 noses being cleaned, nowdays sitting like that they just look like sound proof work cubicles/pods for the clueless....on their cell phones...getting paid...

----------


## ranald

"The Good Ol' Days". I've seen pics of the local bank (where i live now) on skids like that & it would be hitched to a team of draft horses & dragged down town where folk could access in the wet. After the "big wet" it would be dragged back up to it former position. some of my woodworking colleagues remember that but they are reducing in number of late.

----------


## suther51

Frank S I do believe that the donkey engines did pull them selves along at times. Can't remember where I saw it but did see a series of pictures of an engine pulling its self across a stream. The caption talked about how a sizable head of Steam was built up first. Then mentioned that the operator was fortunate not to have blown the boiler from the temperature shock of the cold stream water. In one of the pictures the engine was mostly obscured by the steam from the water hitting the hot metal. One of my relitives has a book with a title something like Endless Tracks in the Woods. Dont think it was in there but many old time pictures of tracked loging equipment, some steam powered if i remember correct.
Eric

----------

PJs (Oct 14, 2018)

----------


## Ralphxyz

It would make sense for them to drag themselves except for tipping the steam boiler might not like being tipped.

Ralph

----------


## suther51

I talked with my cousin last night and it may have been in the book Endless Tracks in the Woods that I saw the sequence of pictures of the donkey engine. My cousin originally had the book but my uncle and his grandson have it now, but apparently there is a section on donkey engines and how they were used in logging. Conversation really got my cousin's juices going! He to is a big fan of machines. According to the book the donkey engines pulled themselves mostly everywhere after they were unloaded from the railroad.
https://oregonencyclopedia.org/artic...W8T_8uQpAadric 
Eric

----------


## marksbug

it would of been eazy to add a set of tractor wheels to it run off the belt/shaft to help push it along too. after it's just a steam tractor without wheels.....hmm 4 wheel drive would of been eazy to!!! but them they would be driving it back to town for coffie everyday....

----------


## Jon

> New York City Port Authority tunnel police. 1950s.



It looks like we have a new winner in the "Early Days of Speeding and Cultural Innocence" category:

Police officer instructs ostrich carriage to slow down. Los Angeles, California. 1930. Largest image size available:

----------

PJs (Oct 15, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 23, 2018),

volodar (Oct 16, 2018)

----------


## ranald

> It looks like we have a new winner in the "Early Days of Speeding and Cultural Innocence" category:
> 
> Police officer instructs ostrich carriage to slow down. Los Angeles, California. 1930. Largest image size available:



More recently, this decade, I was delivering spring water in the 19.6 litre bottles to a company called "laminex Industries". While doing my induction, I learnt that if any vehicle went over 8 kph the driver would be expelled "for ever":years before they had had a death on the site caused mostly by speeding over the original 15 kph. Its pretty hard to keep a truck moving at 5 mph=1st gear only. even the large Cat dozers crawled up the mountains of wood chips. Every employee (except office staff) had a pushie either 2 wheeled or trike with a carry basket. One of the guys used to unlock some roller doors for me so I could manually unload the required full bottles to a destination near the water coolers, and I removed the empties: he told me they caught him on his push bike doing 8 kph resulting in a warning to "show cause why he shouldn't be sacked" = no fines, just a last warning. 
That took speeding & safety to a whole new level: they had speed cameras everywhere even in the warehouses.

----------

PJs (Oct 15, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 15, 2018),

volodar (Oct 16, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

In a very modern plant I have some association with....speed is scrutinized, though not quite as overbearing as ranald's description. The halls are very wide of beautifully finished smooth & painted concrete. Motorized lifts, electric carts, pedal trikes run the middle, everything has rear view mirrors and there are no painted lanes. Foot traffic keeps to right, not unlike a regular roadway. No speed limits per se', just lots of caution and stop signs. You have no opportunity to build up steam. 
And the expediters use adult sized foot powered scooters. Those have a hitch to pull small trailers of additional goods they supply the plant with.

----------

PJs (Oct 15, 2018),

volodar (Oct 16, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Not exactly sure which airship this is, but I did see this labeled as the _USS Macon_. If not, it's likely a similar one from the 1930s. These ships sometimes served as airborne aircraft carriers - small planes (often biplanes) would attach to the airships with skyhooks; they were known as _parasite aircraft_.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg


More:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasite_aircraft
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_aircraft_carrier

----------

bimmer1980 (Oct 17, 2018),

Moby Duck (Oct 16, 2018),

PJs (Oct 17, 2018),

ranald (Oct 17, 2018),

rlm98253 (Oct 16, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 16, 2018),

volodar (Oct 16, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

those are some tall extension ladders

----------

PJs (Oct 17, 2018)

----------


## suther51

Arm strong man lift, mark one.
Eric

----------


## hemmjo

I love those extension ladders on the wheeled carts!! I wonder if they are OSHA approved??

----------


## rlm98253

Workers with acrophobia need not apply.

----------

PJs (Oct 17, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Postmen riding pentacycles. 1882.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

greyhoundollie (Oct 17, 2018),

PJs (Oct 17, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 17, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

Not sure but I think I would have rather used a horse those pentacycles would be fine on smooth paved or hard dirt roads but where would you find a smooth paved road most paved roads of the time were paved with planks or cobble stones and dirt is only hard when it is neither too dry or wet. It would take a lot of leg muscles to go up very much of a grade and hard to hold back going down.
Still the pentacycles would have been much more stable than the 2 wheeled high wheeler's of the time.

----------


## PJs

I would think the front axle is a bit too spindly for rough roads as well as steering, and the rear axle isn't much bigger. But then again Edward Burstow was an Architect!

----------


## hemmjo

wait a minute... the post office is a branch of the government, right? That may explain the impractical use of those cool looking old contraptions to deliver mail...

----------


## Jon

I must wonder if the unusual pentacycle style is justified by the outboard mail carrying baskets.

----------


## Frank S

When I first saw the picture my first thought was somebody put training wheels on a high wheeler

----------


## Jon

60-ton steam shovel trenching for the Catskill Aqueduct. Ulster County, New York. 1909.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Frank S (Oct 18, 2018),

PJs (Oct 21, 2018),

rossbotics (Oct 31, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 18, 2018)

----------


## suther51

Brings to mind a saying my first real boss would use sometimes, "when ships were made of wood and men were made of iron". Looks like it may have taken two men and a boy to run.
Eric

----------


## Toolmaker51

Just noticed the pentacycles aren't identical in size. Tallest guy has the largest drive wheel. Smallest appearing man has proportionally smaller drive wheel. His inseam and offspring thank the bikes builder.

----------


## Frank S

> 60-ton steam shovel trenching for the Catskill Aqueduct. Ulster County, New York. 1909.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



Another print suitable for framing And my wife couldn't understand why I bought the HP design-jet 500 now that I no longer need to print off shop drawings for the things I used to build.

----------

rossbotics (Oct 31, 2018)

----------


## ranald

reckon I'd need all those trainer wheels on that cycle. Imagine trying to lean into a turn.

----------


## Jon

London policeman directs traffic in the fog, aided by a gas-fueled torchlight that can fold up and be stored in a box in the street.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Oct 20, 2018),

Beserkleyboy (Oct 20, 2018),

PJs (Oct 21, 2018),

ranald (Oct 20, 2018),

rossbotics (Oct 31, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 19, 2018)

----------


## ranald

Hooking into the gas line would have taken skill when traffic was about in the fog. I think those cobble stones are actually short sections of wood on end & some still exist today after 100's of years of inclement weather & traffic.

----------

Beserkleyboy (Oct 20, 2018)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Ranald, I could be mistaken, but my bet is those endgrain timber cobbles were Australian Jarrah, 'cause the Poms used Jarrah for their railway sleepers. Yes they do last extremely well due to very high tanin content and extreme density and hardness. Don't have the link handy, but search ' wood database' for some very comprehensive info of woods of the world. Cheers
Jim in (not at all) Sunny South Coast NSW

----------

ranald (Oct 20, 2018)

----------


## suther51

I still can't quite figure what happens when the trolley comes along, do they wait while the Bobby exstingushes the flame and folds up the pipe? It is located right between the rails. And without a joint or pivot at ground level to lay it over.
Eric

----------


## ranald

> Ranald, I could be mistaken, but my bet is those endgrain timber cobbles were Australian Jarrah, 'cause the Poms used Jarrah for their railway sleepers. Yes they do last extremely well due to very high tanin content and extreme density and hardness. Don't have the link handy, but search ' wood database' for some very comprehensive info of woods of the world. Cheers
> Jim in (not at all) Sunny South Coast NSW



yeah, jarrah and yellow stringy bark don't suffer from much of natures extremes. there is one other cost effective species used but cant remember. When I had my srtuctural landscape licence I used to use the same as the cow cockies=yellow stringybark for posts : the rails were generally treated 100 by 32 pine as they were light enough to easily manage & with 3 rails were extremely strong once pailings were attached. Some parts of SW tassie they use saffafras for firewood. Go figure! excuse pun.

----------


## Jon

Ironworkers with the chain links being forged for the anchor of the RMS Titanic. At the time, this was the largest anchor ever made. N. Hingley and Sons. 1910. Largest image size available.

Check out that double-handled sledge!

----------

jackhoying (Oct 23, 2018),

MeJasonT (Oct 23, 2018),

PJs (Oct 29, 2018),

ranald (Oct 23, 2018),

rossbotics (Oct 31, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 24, 2018)

----------


## MeJasonT

It makes the chain hanging it from the ceiling look like a jewellery necklace

----------


## KMoffett

I was thinking the young boy on the left. Wonder what his life was like.

Ken

----------

PJs (Oct 29, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Knowing how ever large the record chain was, it needed an equally proportioned anchor. A little googling found a decent article by a lifelong Titanic researcher at https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.or...y-anchors.html
Includes accounts of epic undertaking to ship it from Hingley Works...

----------

Beserkleyboy (Oct 23, 2018),

PJs (Oct 29, 2018)

----------


## MeJasonT

I have a very good friend Dick Barton, just happens to own the wreck. used to live 2 miles away from me and drink in my local boozer. (RMS Titanic Inc) He used to be partners with a secondhand car dealer, you know the story. Looks like its back in court again to decide its future and yet again Bob Ballard (the fraud) is sticking in his two cents. I'm also good friends with a chap called Fred Buigett who was a diver for IFREMER on the original expedition to find Titanic. Last week i had the pleasure of congratulating a friend and colleague Jim Calvarey for his new job position with woods hole. Its a damn small world we live in. Whilst working for a salvage crew out in the Mediterranean i had the pleasure of working under a salvage master called Lyle from South Africa, he has been involved in Bob Ballards expedition to find Bismarck. It was a pure fluke that Bismarck was found at all as the vessel was going off hire and was returning back to port having been unsuccessful. The Bismarck was found as a result of running over it on the way home - the sonar equipment had been left on and a keen eyed operator spotted it. This is kind of the story you don't hear. Bob Ballard is also know to express his view of ships engines exploding as they sink, total and utter pants and the reason i call him a fraud, prompted by Lyle no less. you need various conditions for an explosion, gas or high octane fuel, explosive of which engines have non. They do however implode if they are running and the casing happens to cool down rapidly as a result of water rushing in. dada. I've had quite an interesting life and career and met some very unsavoury characters. My first experience of meeting managers from IFREMER was in the med one morning on a salvage job whilst i was pissed as a fart - I went drinking with french chaps the night before, i should have realised i cant match divers pint for pint. Incidentally i've met Bob as well.

----------

PJs (Oct 29, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 24, 2018)

----------


## Jon

New York City street cleaner. 1906. Largest size available.

----------

Andyt (Oct 30, 2018),

PJs (Oct 29, 2018),

rossbotics (Oct 31, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 29, 2018)

----------


## mklotz

My first thought was that a horse drawn street sweeper was an exercise in futility but I suppose that as long as the horses pull rather than push the device everything will work fine.

Street sweeping in the first decade of the century must have provided employment for lots of people.

----------

PJs (Oct 29, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 27, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> My first thought was that a horse drawn street sweeper was an exercise in futility but I suppose that as long as the horses pull rather than push the device everything will work fine.
> 
> Street sweeping in the first decade of the century must have provided employment for lots of people.



Well, I suspect some horses wore bags to collect droppings; typical in parades, mounted city police, carriages etc. 

And street sweeping took a lot of employees. Good position for those 'city jobs' from brother-in-law in public office. Especially if he didn't care for them so much.

----------


## ranald

When empty they would have been quite noisy (without the water) I imagine. Looks like other horse drawn carrages in background. If cleaning/shovering the droppings one would be sulky. 

We had a local green grocer, named Bumstead, who we were warned of his approach (a mile or two away) bu barking dogs until he fitted pneumatic tyred rims to his horse drawn cart. 

I don't remember his finishing his run sometime in early to mid 70's. Probably done out of a job by food chains having/selling such fruit & veg.

----------


## Jon

Yangtze River. Sichuan, China. 1946. Largest image size available.

----------

EnginePaul (Nov 4, 2018),

Moby Duck (Nov 4, 2018),

PJs (Oct 29, 2018),

rossbotics (Oct 31, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 29, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 29, 2018)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Jon
Here is one of many photos taken of the Serra Palada gold mines in Brazil. It looks 'historical', as in old...but this is 1980. I first found one of these pics on the covers of Jerry Harrison's Casual Gods LP in '88. Harrison was a founding member of the Modern Lovers with Jonathan Richman, local faves on Beserkeley Records in the 70's...and on to Talking Heads in the 80's. The story of the gold mine is fascinating, and a revealing look into the 3rd world, human greed and exploitation...Cheers
https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/hel...-pelada-1980s/
Jim in sunny south coast NSW

----------

Harvey Melvin Richards (Nov 3, 2018),

Jon (Oct 30, 2018),

PJs (Oct 30, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 29, 2018),

volodar (Oct 30, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Winchester barrel shop. 1912.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Nov 4, 2018),

baja (Oct 31, 2018),

Beserkleyboy (Oct 30, 2018),

PJs (Oct 30, 2018),

rossbotics (Oct 31, 2018),

Seedtick (Oct 30, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 30, 2018),

volodar (Oct 31, 2018)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

WOW! There's a lotta line shafts happening there! Great pics...I bought a 26" Crescent bandsaw in about 1995 for $200, and it had a lineshaft pulley on the bottom wheel. Sadly, I had to take it off and get a pulley to connect to 3hp induction motor..Great machine, that one, alas gone now...
Jim

----------

PJs (Oct 31, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

At least 6 line shafts and who knows how many belts, really can't tell. Layout of floor appears some operators tend two lathes, notice the carriage handwheels. Seems like they are very close together, that seems odd. Look at center right of photo. Guy in a white shirt is peering through a barrel, likely a mere visual check, plenty of gauging later in the process. All that occurs before final straightening. In those days most barrels may have been straightened at least twice.

Straightening is an interesting process. The barrel man works a screw-driven press, the tube in vee-blocks, aimed at a window. In front of the glass, a thin wire suspends a weight, like a plumb-bob. Any discrepancy in straightness is visible where image of wire jogs, or looks broken. Drilling and turning interrupt integrity of the blank rod. Often the barrel is only curved, but other conditions occur. As barrel is rotated in the blocks, and high spot gets to 12 O'clock, then screw brought to bear on that position. The screw's wheel is styled like a ship's helm, with spokes radiating beyond rim, a little ways above operators head. The adjustments take little pressure to bend the tube about twice the deviation. Pressure relieved, change can be seen and re-applied need be.

----------

Beserkleyboy (Oct 30, 2018),

PJs (Oct 31, 2018)

----------


## mklotz

> At least 6 line shafts and who knows how many belts, really can't tell. Layout of floor appears some operators tend two lathes, notice the carriage handwheels. Seems like they are very close together, that seems odd



Is it possible that those machines in the foreground are rifling machines and not boring lathes? They don't look like lathes to me.

----------

PJs (Oct 31, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 30, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Is it possible that those machines in the foreground are rifling machines and not boring lathes? They don't look like lathes to me.



I think, judging by the larger overhead sheaves on the right, those are rifling or chambering. There'd be at least four operations; 1] turn, 2] drill-ream-crown, 3] rifling, 4] chamber. 
Unsure if gun-drills [single straight flute, hole-riding body, pressurized cutting oil] had been developed yet. Of course the drill needs to be pushed. Good quality reaming is pulled, eliminating flex as an extended drill does. Those 'benches' could be similar. 
I don't see sine-bar or spiral guided rifling machines in view. By 1912, Pratt & Whitney might have been producing riflers, made zillions over the years.

And rifling is another art, many techniques practiced by as many manufacturers.
In mass production, Colt could produce unbelievably fine barrels. A little more modern is Lothar Walther. In custom work, Harry Pope represents epitome in target barrels. And other fun discussions! People continue with handmade cut rifling heads, and custom shops sell broaching buttons on Ebay....

----------

PJs (Oct 31, 2018)

----------


## owen moore

I believe those machines are drilling and reaming. I don't think any rifling is going on in the picture, as rifling machines took up more space and could not have been located that close to one another. Interestingly enough, Colt performed a lot of their rifling vertically. I believe Mr. Root of Colt invented that procedure. (IE- the Colt Root).

----------

PJs (Oct 31, 2018)

----------


## ranald

all very impressive. Imagine how these days, occupational health and safety would view all those exposed belts & cogs/gears. 

Wonder if they did hex barrels like a winchester rifle I used to own?

----------


## PJs

The machine at the far right may be a riffling machine as it goes off screen and has different controls as well as the belt on the opposite end. The others or boring and reaming ops, imho. Perhaps the guy on the far left is doing the crown work. 

Love this picture and the workers seem happy and content...I would be despite any Osha Hazzard we might impose today. Those guys seem smart enough to stay out of the way of belts and such...had to be.

----------


## Frank S

One thing is for sure there was not a spare foot of unused floor space.

It does look as though there are 2 machines per man. that would mean 4 barrels at a time per man whether they are boring reaming or crowning or riffling it really makes no difference that is a highly stressful situation done hour in hour out every working day. Then think about having to do the same thing all of the time.
in the past I had often kept several of my machines running at the same time each with a different set up doing certain stages of what ever the run happened to be. and my wife almost always had 1 or 2 band saws going while running the radial drill-press but the differences there was we didn't have our machines almost stacked on top of each other and every run was different.
Doing what those guys were doing would have driven me over the edge in 1 day.

----------


## Jon

Collecting scrap metal for the WWII war effort.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Nov 3, 2018),

Beserkleyboy (Nov 2, 2018),

MeJasonT (Nov 3, 2018),

PJs (Nov 2, 2018),

ranald (Nov 2, 2018),

Seedtick (Nov 2, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 2, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

> Collecting scrap metal for the WWII war effort.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



Us kids used to sit and listen to one of my uncles he was too young for service but he had many more interesting stories than my dad or other uncles who had gone off to war since none of them would talk much about what they did.
This 1 uncle though had many tales of how he worked in a gas station and would have to patch together peoples cars or trucks with what ever he could find then he and the other kids would scour the fields and dumps for any scrap of not only metal but glass as well to donate at the collection places sometimes the guy running the collection site would pay them something for the things they brought in. 
Not everyone took part in the war effort as I am told but if you saw a kid wearing a boy scout uniform you could bet their every waking moment when otherwise not engaged in their regular boyhood chores they would be going door to door at times in hopes of collecting things for the war effort

----------

Andyt (Nov 3, 2018),

MeJasonT (Nov 3, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 2, 2018)

----------


## PJs

Great Pic, Jon. Very Moving and shows the spirit of the times and young people doing the Right Things.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Nov 2, 2018)

----------


## ranald

Team spirit & all wearing shoes/boots. Sometimes it takes a terrible incident to unite folk like those young ones.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Nov 2, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Collecting scrap metal for the WWII war effort.



As a veteran I'm certainly no dove; nor warmonger. But I can tell you this. I have all kinds of veteran family members and others old enough to relay accurate accounts of this period in time. 
During our War Between the States, General W.T. Sherman perfected campaign making civilians of the Confederacy not care to support the effort because it impacted them directly. He put this to work, _"War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over."_ Everything; ransacked farms, railways, loss of possessions, material goods, funds or revenue with potential to bolster the South. 
General Sherman was not entirely ruthless, such is the case with better part of Louisiana. And who became the _first_ superintendent of the Louisiana State Seminary of Learning & Military Academy, later known as Louisiana State University? 

In WWII, American war effort was a 'Community Project'; not so much negative propaganda about the Axis, but lots of Mom and apple pie. And likely the greatest advertising campaign of all time. 
The group of boys pictured [even if staged] felt every bit instrumental as their Rosie Riveter mothers. 

No one can account how much any of these materials actually made it into aircraft or tanks. It didn't need too. Collections made home front engaged by contributing too; not altogether different than cheering your team on. Rationing too; you did without so those afield better managed to conduct the mission.
Ranald mentions they all have boots/ shoes; well fed, clean, haircuts too. Not the case in every Allied country, too be sure. We could only do so much...
Be so interesting, approximating what percentage of full manufacturing been achieved. Certainly very high, I'm betting it wasn't 100%.

----------

PJs (Nov 3, 2018)

----------


## Moby Duck

I once read that this was largely a propaganda exercise to foster the idea that those on the home front were contributing to the war effort. Apparently in the UK, very little of it was actually used, and there are supposed to be mountains of it, buried for recovery in case they ever really need it. In London in the early 1960’s there were still many buildings and churches with the remnants of cut off steel fences that hadn’t been repaired. Being so vast, and having such good mineral resources etc, it is hard to imagine the USA ever being in a position where melting down someone’s donated aluminium cooking pot would make much of a difference.

----------

PJs (Nov 3, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 3, 2018)

----------


## mklotz

> I once read that this was largely a propaganda exercise to foster the idea that those on the home front were contributing to the war effort. Apparently in the UK, very little of it was actually used, and there are supposed to be mountains of it, buried for recovery in case they ever really need it. In London in the early 1960’s there were still many buildings and churches with the remnants of cut off steel fences that hadn’t been repaired. Being so vast, and having such good mineral resources etc, it is hard to imagine the USA ever being in a position where melting down someone’s donated aluminium cooking pot would make much of a difference.



I've read that too and had the same thought. There came a point in the war where we were building a Victory ship and dozens of war planes along with untold other armaments every day. That's easily thousands of tons of metals required on a daily basis. A couple of pounds of pots and pans and rusty fences would be the proverbial drop in the bucket.

Remember that at the start of the war there was a strong, and outspoken isolationist spirit in the USA. Pearl Harbor silenced those folks but didn't necessarily change their outlook, particularly so relative to the war in Europe. No doubt Roosevelt remembered how sneaky he had to be with the Lend-Lease program to aid the UK and that prompted him to decide that involving the populace in the effort was essential.

Washington may well have felt that convincing people to participate in the war effort was an essential element in sustaining a fight that was going to go on for a very long time. It's long been true that "The first casualty of war is truth." so a little (admittedly white) lie about collecting metal was not going to upset the government.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Nov 4, 2018),

volodar (Nov 3, 2018)

----------


## MeJasonT

Yes gents, you are correct. The iron railings etc were taken by the instruction of the government to supply the iron and steel works for the manufacture of bombs etc. The rumour that the metal was substandard was also passed around. I cant imagine if they did need it that they wouldn't, they must have used some as making stuff would require it. 

So What Really Happened to our Railings?

We were actually bringing iron parts in from the continent to support our war effort. I worked in marine salvage and we were often working on liberty ships like Autolycus and Namur (old white star line steamers). These ships had tea, tin, crane and train parts and sheets of natural rubber, not forgetting the bullion used to trade for materials. both wrecks had approximately 22 bars of silver and 11 bars of gold on board which we recovered.

Our home and village had its railings and ornaments taken. As a mark of remembrance for the centenary 1914 ~2014 I replaced the railings on our garden wall, granted they are mild steel now and probably more use in the next war, wave goodbye again. Having relatives who served in both great wars i felt it was the least i could do to pay respect to their sacrifice and that of their comrades.

----------

Moby Duck (Nov 3, 2018),

PJs (Nov 3, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 4, 2018)

----------


## PJs

There were more than a few "More than white lies" that happened during those times and in most times of war. The big 3 car makers and others came out smelling like roses with paybacks on both sides and off/from the people...and of course the banks for financing it and perhaps even starting it.

The thing about this picture, Rosie, war bond and newsreel campaigns to me, is the _focused Energy on a United common goal_, especially after Pearl Harbor. Not much different than Kennedy's speech about going to the moon, and doing it ahead of schedule. No doubt this was a staged pic with the boys wearing shoes and dressed well, but to me I can see in their faces that they are Getting to help out _with_ their parents in a small and perhaps insignificant way...but I'm not sure it was. As for resources, sure we had/have them but to me again it's the Strategic focus/energy to be able organize that kind of production efficiencies in such short time.

To me its the collective "Juice/Energy" that forms powerful bond-forces, allowing creativity to bring something forward or to surpass obstacles or oppression...the key is knowing when you are being duped and whether or not you want to participate and at what level. The great terms, "We the People" may have been coined from the preamble to the constitution in the US but is applicable globally to all human beings to use this energy collectively...again the keys are based in discernment through the pitch fever of polarity, greed, power and such. Millennia of this is evident and grown to be AI and 100 years psychodynamics as a pseudo science in modern times. Whether or not we revert to insect culture or not will depend on We the People as individuals and finding/creating that collective Juice to do the Right Thing...what ever that is for each and all of us.

PJ

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world."
Anne Frank

----------

MeJasonT (Nov 3, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 4, 2018)

----------


## Jon

> Remember that at the start of the war there was a strong, and outspoken isolationist spirit in the USA. Pearl Harbor silenced those folks but didn't necessarily change their outlook, particularly so relative to the war in Europe.



Relevant:

----------


## ranald

Interesting propaganda or not: it was certainly psychology to "find a common enemy" to get squabbling factions of society to unite. I remember my parents talking about the allies having taught Japan how to make good steel for weapons other than their excellent sword/knife & other hand weapons.

It was not just steel/metal that was collected but wood also.
My dad had his solid plaster factory & trucks confiscated, the factory ( third biggest in Brisbane) was used to make soda(soft drinks) for the US guys stationed here.

They created the "Brisbane line" of defence and US personnel were stationed in and around the city. My father and his brother were allowed to keep a truck each if they went to" the Terrirory" to build a road through the centre south from Darwin. They were not accepted into the forces as they were "C Class". They had flat feet & considered not able to march, when they tried to enlist, so deemed to be unfit for service=C Class. The Japanese did indeed bomb Darwin but the road for supplies was never needed for the purpose of slowing the advance of the attackers. All of my dads mail to Mum (newly weds) was scrutionised and much of the letters cut out probably more to do with morale back home than sucurity. 
I kind of think the road could have had the reverse affect if the enemy landed though there would have been a plan to destroy at least some in that event.

----------

PJs (Nov 4, 2018)

----------


## ranald

> Relevant:



Regarding Hitler, a survivor of WW1; His exploits were reportably financed by a family Rothchild. Sounds???????????? Rothchild is a Jewish name isn't it? Propaganda? Lies? Super race yet look at hitler himself! Family (Rothchild) in the U.S.? Too many questions remain unanswered to the people.
Nostradamus mentions a name like Hitler & the town where he was born. Fate?
Can of worms!

----------


## MeJasonT

You should try mentioning the word Oil over the telephone whilst working out in the middle east, especially whilst the Gulf wars were taking place. Oh **** too late that's me getting monitored by special branch.

----------


## MeJasonT

There was a mention of the Husain's having lunch at the White House 24 Hrs before we (the royal we) lit up Iraq - again quite odd as in the 80s we were helping Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war. Why is it normal folks like us never understand who's the enemy. I think if you are going to start a war on someone you should at least have the balls to declare war on them first. Pearl Harbour was an absolute C***s trick.

----------

PJs (Nov 4, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 4, 2018)

----------


## ranald

> There was a mention of the Husain's having lunch at the White House 24 Hrs before we (the royal we) lit up Iraq - again quite odd as in the 80s we were helping Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war. Why is it normal folks like us never understand who's the enemy. I think if you are going to start a war on someone you should at least have the balls to declare war on them first. Pearl Harbour was an absolute C***s trick.



yep! underhanded crap that got its Karma................ with interest. Power & greed.

----------


## Moby Duck

Something wrong with the link here. I am trying to post a comment on the Chinese hauling boats and it brings me here where the boat hauling doesn't appear to be mentioned.

----------


## biakss

China? 1946?
In China in 1946 were black slaves?
Most likely the photo was taken in another country and not in 1946!

----------

MeJasonT (Nov 6, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Moby Duck - your post is correctly placed. This is a single thread containing numerous photos, and all replies appear in order. If you want to comment on a photo from a few pages back, you can use the "Reply with Quote" function on the original photo post to reproduce that photo in your reply.

biakss - I believe those are paid workers, doing a traditional Chinese pre-motorboat era job called "boat tracking". You can always poke around in Google or another search engine to research more of these photos; in Chrome, you can even control-click on the image to do a similar image search in Google right from the image. Prior to reviewing those photos, I must warn you - this boat tracking job was previously, and is now (ceremonially) carried out unclothed! Ironically, it may be one of the safer occupations we see in this thread. Someone in this thread is probably more knowledgeable about this than I am.

----------

PJs (Nov 4, 2018)

----------


## MeJasonT

I'm curios as to the reasons behind only UK and USA apologising for the slave trade. The Dutch were quite a huge trading nation who transported many salves and yet very little was mentioned of their involvement.

----------

PJs (Nov 4, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 4, 2018)

----------


## 12bolts

> China? 1946?
> In China in 1946 were black slaves?
> Most likely the photo was taken in another country and not in 1946!



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitri_Kessel
And a similar image, possibly the same time but of a different group from a different angle

----------

Jon (Nov 4, 2018),

MeJasonT (Nov 6, 2018)

----------


## Jon

I don't get why the people are being used essentially as draft animals (but, yes, still: paid workers). I don't think this exists today even in countries that still have slavery. Why not a horse or mule or some such? Access issue? Deep river with narrow banks? Can a person do a better job of pulling a boat upstream than an animal? We're seeing them pull on land, but I believe they cross back and forth between the water and the land.

----------


## biakss

The photos are completely different people.
In the 1946 photograph, people are shod in sandals and half-naked.
The Chinese are not tall. In the 1946 photograph, tall people with long arms.

----------


## mklotz

> I don't get why the people are being used essentially as draft animals (but, yes, still: paid workers). I don't think this exists today even in countries that still have slavery. Why not a horse or mule or some such? Access issue? Deep river with narrow banks? Can a person do a better job of pulling a boat upstream than an animal? We're seeing them pull on land, but I believe they cross back and forth between the water and the land.



Too many unskilled folks in an essentially (then) agrarian economy. People in dire need of money would work for far less than the maintenance cost of draft animals. The few jobs better than animal-like labor required skills and the peasants had no time to acquire skills much less the resources to pay for the acquisition thereof.

----------

PJs (Nov 5, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I'm curios as to the reasons behind only UK and USA apologising for the slave trade. The Dutch were quite a huge trading nation who transported many salves and yet very little was mentioned of their involvement.



Well, between Holland vs UK and USA, we've a greater share of apologetic liberals, revisionists of history, and receptive entitle-istas thinking 8-9 generations later is a signal, high time dipping into deep pockets THEY do little to fill.

P.S. I recall articles declaring their very own continent more at fault as suppliers, overpowering and deprecating any tribe possible. 

Any external nation as customer wouldn't have cause putting to sea otherwise.

----------

PJs (Nov 5, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

And regarding "boat-tracking"; can't imagine what distinction near slave labor befits ceremonial attention, garbed or not. Talk about a sales pitch! Ceremonies?
Better than Tom Sawyer collecting an apple from his dupe for honor of whitewashing Tom's fence.
Unless boat owner, master, or at least bos'n is in such a harness, that's some prime example for union leadership! 
No more closed shops for this hombre either.

----------


## mklotz

> Well, between Holland vs UK and USA, we've a greater share of apologetic liberals, revisionists of history, and receptive entitle-istas thinking 8-9 generations later is a signal, high time dipping into deep pockets THEY do little to fill.
> 
> P.S. I recall articles declaring their very own continent more at fault as suppliers, overpowering and deprecating any tribe possible. 
> 
> Any external nation as customer wouldn't have cause putting to sea otherwise.



Most of western Europe was involved in the slave trade.

The French...

France | Europe | The Places Involved | Slavery Routes | Bristol and Transatlantic Slavery | PortCities Bristol

populated Haiti with slaves. Portugal...

Portugal | Europe | The Places Involved | Slavery Routes | Bristol and Transatlantic Slavery | PortCities Bristol

originated the trade. Spain...

Spain | Europe | The Places Involved | Slavery Routes | Bristol and Transatlantic Slavery | PortCities Bristol

had slaves all over the Caribbean and Mexico. Their Catholic priests enslaved considerable numbers of native Americans during their relentless proselytizing.

----------

Beserkleyboy (Nov 5, 2018),

volodar (Nov 5, 2018)

----------


## Jon

I'm still favoring some sort of niche logistical argument to explain why men are doing the drafting upriver. Can't draft animals ultimately outperform humans, calorie for calorie? Because what is the minimum for which a human or animal can work, long-term? To replace the calories burned while working, right? Biologically, we can't continue to perform work for less than that. And a draft horse does pulling work equivalent to about 10 men? And about 5 men equal the work of a lesser draft animal like a mule?

I wonder if it's a biped vs. quadruped issue. Or a specialty work crew that needs to pull boats upriver, both on land, and in the water, both walking AND swimming upriver. What happens when horses are pulling a load through a river, and the river depth exceeds the horses' height? Will the horses swim the load forward? Can a team of 20 men swim one of those boats upriver?

----------


## MeJasonT

Brilliant Jon, back on topic. I wonder how long it will be before people in the west are used as cheap labour in stead of expensive machine and robots. In order for Trumps master plan to work more labour will definitely be required. When the west loves to put people before profit that could be us very soon.

----------


## Jon

Ironically, the internet's two favorite topics of heated debate (slavery and Nazis) are actually perfectly relevant to a thread about vintage work crews. Even a strong familiarity with Godwin's Law will not help us here.

I'll look through my work crews photo file so we can move our conversation forward. The Chinese boat haulers may simply have to remain a mystery.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I'm still favoring some sort of niche logistical argument to explain why men are doing the drafting upriver. Can't draft animals ultimately outperform humans, calorie for calorie? Because what is the minimum for which a human or animal can work, long-term? To replace the calories burned while working, right? Biologically, we can't continue to perform work for less than that. And a draft horse does pulling work equivalent to about 10 men? And about 5 men equal the work of a lesser draft animal like a mule?
> 
> I wonder if it's a biped vs. quadruped issue. Or a specialty work crew that needs to pull boats upriver, both on land, and in the water, both walking AND swimming upriver. What happens when horses are pulling a load through a river, and the river depth exceeds the horses' height? Will the horses swim the load forward? Can a team of 20 men swim one of those boats upriver?



I'm willing to guess any number of convenient situations magically convened that a boat owner moved goods upstream. Unlike certain modern locales; there always are people desperate for employment, perhaps only meager food. 
I say animals were utilized only when human effort was insufficient. Weight [displacement] vs size of hooves might not even put horses all that far beyond a hundred pound guy with 2 hands and feet. They'd also carry burden of hauling grain/ alfalfa every inch upstream. And I don't picture either mules or draft animals performing on rice.

*Come to think of it are there any horses in the picture, say ridden by a overseer?

----------


## PJs

> Ironically, the internet's two favorite topics of heated debate (slavery and Nazis) are actually perfectly relevant to a thread about vintage work crews. Even a strong familiarity with Godwin's Law will not help us here.
> 
> I'll look through my work crews photo file so we can move our conversation forward. The Chinese boat haulers may simply have to remain a mystery.



Yes, Godwin's law to memetics to Metamagical Themas to its final resting place as a memoid joining the memepool with a dose of hyperbole, add some math and AI we are off to the holy trinity of rabbit hole races and Me...me....I am a Horse of Course and I am calling it Mr. Ed.

There used to be a word called Portage...rings a bell anyway...could this be sidesaddle portage?

----------

Frank S (Nov 7, 2018),

MeJasonT (Nov 6, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 6, 2018)

----------


## MeJasonT

A man is surly cheaper than a horse, If you buy a horse you have to feed it and see to its needs but if you throw a man 5 cents he has to care for himself. If he kicks the bucket his cousins Ruben or Jasper are always looking for work, The Horse will not be forthcoming with names for his replacement, you would have to go through all the hassle of finding another horse. This is why i think Technology is not the future, If a company replaces me with a robot, even working 24 Hours it will never be cheaper to operate than a mere soul such as myself would be in my lifetime. My life expectancy to that of a robots serviceability would be relatively similar. is an employer likely to pay me 6 million in my working life - NO. But they can find that sort of cash to replace me with a robot? It will take 50 years before someone does the math and works out that making a quick profit now will not produce dividend in the future. The soothsayers will say nee, do we not have lathes and millers which replaceth man - not quite they are tools, the man is still there employed. The robot will still require a maintenance man and human interacting to feed its needs unless its HAL of course. If you take away the canal drawn long boat being hauled by man then he does not get paid, his family starve and no taxes are paid. You cant beat man power (or woman power if you believe in me too, burning Bra's etc). Just saying.  :Big Grin:

----------

PJs (Nov 6, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 6, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Tunneling crew on London's Central Line. 1898.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

MeJasonT (Nov 7, 2018),

PJs (Nov 6, 2018),

ranald (Nov 6, 2018),

Seedtick (Nov 10, 2018)

----------


## PJs

Wow 1898 and got to be 25' in diameter with some somber workers. Looks ripe for a touch up but tough on a postcard type. Great pic Jon. I'm thinkin' this thread may reach mach and the 25 page barrier. I think second only, so far to  Shop Truths, Phrases, Tales; and Outright Lies  which may have temporarily stumbled into the effervescent Godwins law.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Thanks!

----------

MeJasonT (Nov 7, 2018)

----------


## ranald

> Tunneling crew on London's Central Line. 1898.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



Hope those "TUBEs" were/are above the ancient sewers there. The odour of sweat & persperation would have been bad enough down there. It's hot enough digging a grave 5ft or 6 ft under let alone in a kind of mine shaft. I'm sweary enough thinking about it.

----------

Frank S (Nov 7, 2018),

MeJasonT (Nov 7, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

> Wow 1898 and got to be 25' in diameter with some somber workers. Looks ripe for a touch up but tough on a postcard type. Great pic Jon. I'm thinkin' this thread may reach mach and the 25 page barrier. I think second only, so far to  Shop Truths, Phrases, Tales; and Outright Lies  which may have temporarily stumbled into the effervescent Godwins law. 
> 
> Thanks!



 New post in http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/s...ght-lies-42152 Am I retired or an indentured servant

----------

MeJasonT (Nov 7, 2018),

ranald (Nov 6, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 7, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

> Tunneling crew on London's Central Line. 1898.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



How would you like to have to stand shoulder to shoulder 3 or 4 levels high while swinging a pick all day in a dimly lit tunnel

----------

MeJasonT (Nov 7, 2018)

----------


## ranald

Frank, I thought you were WW or WW.(walt whitman or william wordsworth). Thanks = very entertaining.

----------

Frank S (Nov 7, 2018),

MeJasonT (Nov 7, 2018),

PJs (Nov 7, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

> Frank, I thought you were WW or WW.(walt whitman or william wordsworth). Thanks = very entertaining.



 I fail to see any correlation hidden within the ramblings of my often ludicrous posts of events past present or future, of the literary poetical genius of 2 IMHO greats like WW&WW. I appreciate your comment none the less.

----------

MeJasonT (Nov 7, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 16, 2018)

----------


## PJs

I get inspired by some of these photos and find the trials and work of these people who preceded use of great cultural value to us and future generation. Much like Walt Whitman and Wordsworth inspired many a thought with great words about mankind and important concepts. There faces, postures, clothing and such along with the industrial age inventiveness are beacons of core principles, work ethic and a daily grind, perseverance for us all to ponder, now and in future generations.

I've been doing a lot of graphic/web/video work lately and as a respite to the grind of it, sometimes I like to "Clean up" some of these so I may better see what was happening in the picture and the people in them. This is one of them and here are a "cleaned" version and a zoomed in crop of some of these hard working folks.



 


This one in particular brought up a PBS special I saw a while back about tunnel building in Boston and how generations of "Tunnelers" have worked on them, what kind of people they are and what they are doing with the new one. It also comes full forward to today to what Elon Musk is doing in LA with his high-speed underground rail system, which is pretty impressive tech wise without getting into the values or rightness of it...Inspired visionary action, imho.

Hope this adds some inspiration to others here on this great forum.

 :Hat Tip:  PJ

----------

MeJasonT (Nov 7, 2018),

volodar (Nov 8, 2018)

----------


## PJs

> New post in http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/s...ght-lies-42152 Am I retired or an indentured servant



I'm taking this as a question, but perhaps its just your flavor of rhetorical(?). Some valued points about retirement but as for indentured servant, I find that incredulous in your case. The life of a human can at times feel indentured to the difficult and demeaning tasks doled by those lording over watch *or* ones conscience. Some as I feel you do, _choose_ the creative endeavors of the high road, beneficial to you, yours and others.

Sometimes here on HMT, the conversations are just as potent, inspiring, funny and irascible in bringing this stuff forward as the pics in this thread...for which I am grateful.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Nov 10, 2018)

----------


## ranald

> I fail to see any correlation hidden within the ramblings of my often ludicrous posts of events past present or future, of the literary poetical genius of 2 IMHO greats like WW&WW. I appreciate your comment none the less.



I actually meant that ,until I had finished reading "Shop Truths etc" ,I thought you had written it. It is very entertaining. Neither insult nor flattery intended.Thanks for posting it.

Side track=Ha, ha , my dyslexia has often landed me in hot water esp in high school: folk often wonder when i pause a little before I answer verbally: is he about to lie/exagerate? I don't really know what they are thinking; I'm merely trying not to offend. Friends have said "just blurt it out :who cares?" But that doesn't work for me ( reminds me of "Macloud" the series. Generally with written responses, I can & do go over my stuff to fix errors but inevitably some sneak through. You should see some of the gobbly de gook I have to change despite my fat fingers touching other keys.

Cheers

----------

MeJasonT (Nov 8, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 10, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Workers posing by the satinet machines in the Taft or Old Huguenot Mill, approximately 1880.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Nov 11, 2018),

Seedtick (Nov 17, 2018)

----------


## ranald

they actually had some room for the pose.

----------


## Jon

Steam powered fire engine extinguishing a fire. 1920.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Nov 18, 2018),

Seedtick (Nov 16, 2018)

----------


## MeJasonT

What are they putting out, the only smoke i can see is coming from the pump.

----------


## Frank S

A fire alarm goes off , the first step is to build a fire in the boiler in hopes that it will have a head of steam to power the pump by the time the horses are hitched and the apparatus gets hauled to the fire. to relieve the bucket brigade. Lots of old silent movies made of these even the 3 stooges had a couple episodes with them.

----------

PJs (Nov 18, 2018)

----------


## MeJasonT

Must be the RN sailor in me, we got bollocked for making black smoke, never new about the preparation of setting up the pump before hitching the horses - makes sense. It looks like the hoses are charged are we saying that they are filling up the pump as well. Is the name on the building behind of any significance, IE. the company operating the pump. Who would later become an insurance company perhaps.

----------


## MeJasonT

ahhh no. they are pressure hoses, the larger suction hoses are still on the engine.

----------


## VinnieL

What did they do with the horses once they arrived at the fire? Did someone remove them for their safety and to keep them from going nuts over the fire?

----------


## Frank S

> What did they do with the horses once they arrived at the fire? Did someone remove them for their safety and to keep them from going nuts over the fire?



 You are correct once a pumping unit was placed on station the horses would no longer be required the team usually only 2 unless it was one of the much larger pumping units would have been the fire station and possibly used to haul a ladder wagon, but most of the horses were trained not to panic in the face of a fire situation resualting in them remaining hitched to the engine they were pulling In larger cities some fire houses had several horses stabled in the fire house several teams were required to haul multiple pumping units and other fire fighting gear 
A very good read about the history of fire horses
A History of Horses in the Fire Service - Fire History

----------

MeJasonT (Nov 17, 2018),

philipUsesWood&Brass (Nov 29, 2018),

PJs (Nov 18, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 18, 2018)

----------


## wizard69

The funny thing about these steam powered fire fighting pumps is that in that era many fires where caused by trains and other steam powered machines throwing out cinders and sparks. In this case we have a huge plume of smoke riding out of the engine. Makes me wonder how long it took to get steam generation up to the point of being able to drive s pump.

----------


## Jon

From NYC Water Instagram.




> Three workmen pause for a photo at a pumping station about 100 up on the center line of the future Downsville Dam at Pepacton Reservoir. The pumps keep water out of the work site and electricity is carried through the overhead wires. Electrifying! July 12, 1950.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Paul Jones (Nov 28, 2018),

PJs (Nov 18, 2018)

----------


## ranald

I notice some of the countryside is partially cleared inc the power line easement, presumably for the higher water level when completed. Lots of trees left 
. I remember when a dam in Gold Coast (S.E.Qld) hinterland was built, & all trees and housing was lost to the waters ( Advance Town was relocated on the range: but I guess much wildlife adapted while land/tree dwellers probably perished. Water is so important to society that we can loose sight of the big picture. I have a few tanks holding about 20,000 gals (Au) or 100,000 litres approx. One water authority fined a guy (local) for having too many tanks preventing water entering the storm water system! Really? what BS! Power gone mad.
cheers

----------

Drew1966 (Nov 21, 2018),

volodar (Nov 20, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Stewardesses in a double-decker plane. Date unknown. Largest image size available.

----------

PJs (Nov 20, 2018),

Seedtick (Nov 20, 2018)

----------


## PJs

Got the lines of a Stratocruiser and by the dress and hair styles of the Stewy's looks about the right vintage...late 49' early 50's promo piece for Boeing. 920x714 doesn't give much but may try to give it some touch up. Nice Pic Jon, Thanks!

PJ

----------

Paul Jones (Nov 28, 2018)

----------


## marksbug

"date unknown" oh,so it was a blind date....how long did you date her.... :Hat Tip:

----------


## 12bolts

Upper deck is passenger compartment. Lower deck is baggage/cargo hold.
Airliners are still built to the same style but advancements in aeronautics, materials and design means they look different because instead of being 2 cylinders joined together, we now have egg/oval/ellipse shaped fuselages.

----------


## VinnieL

We have a Fire Chief who is retiring soon. I am going to use that photo to make a card for him something about "Your First Fire".

----------


## Hans Pearson

> Stewardesses in a double-decker plane. Date unknown. Largest image size available.



It is a Boeing 337 Stratocruiser. The lower deck was also used as a lounge/bar for passengers. The first 337 flew on 8 July 1947 and production continued until 1 February 1950. In all, about 55 were built and the aircraft was a hybred using the wings and tail unit from the Boeing B-29 Super Fortress. The aircraft had a rather bad name as the steel formed propellers used on some models were inclined to shed blades with severe consequences. Main customers were PanAm, United Air Lines, Northwest Air Lines, American Overseas Air Lines and BOAC.

----------

Paul Jones (Nov 28, 2018),

PJs (Nov 21, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 21, 2018),

volodar (Nov 21, 2018)

----------


## Hans Pearson

[QUOTE=Hans Pearson;121271]It is a Boeing 337 Stratocruiser. The lower deck was also used as a lounge/bar for passengers. The first 337 flew on 8 July 1947 and production continued until 1 February 1950. In all, about 55 were built and the aircraft was a hybred using the wings and tail unit from the Boeing B-29 Super Fortress. The aircraft had a rather bad name as the steel formed propellers used on some models were inclined to shed blades with severe consequences. Main customers were PanAm, United Air Lines, Northwest Air Lines, American Overseas Air Lines and BOAC. 
This photo was probably a promotional shot with air hostesses from the first customer airlines and would have been taken prior to completion of the first aircraft.

----------


## Jon

Workers grinding drills at the Republic Drill and Tool Company. Chicago, Illinois, 1942.

This awesome find hits on a lot cylinders for work crew photos we love: the machines, the era, the WWII propaganda, the old tool company, the uniforms, the hair, the smiles, the sparks, the workers so serious about their jobs, the enormous fullsize photos, the link to a large collection of related photos from an official source. Spent a good bit of time this morning basking in these beautiful photos!

Some picks:

Fullsize photo: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h..._fullsize1.jpg


Fullsize photo: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h..._fullsize2.jpg


Fullsize photo: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h..._fullsize3.jpg


Fullsize photo: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h..._fullsize4.jpg


Fullsize photo: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h..._fullsize5.jpg


Many more similar photos in the Library of Congress collection here, and they have enormous 100MB+ fullsize TIF files: Search Results: "LOT 1982" - Prints & Photographs Online Catalog (Library of Congress)

----------

bigtrev8xl (Nov 22, 2018),

HobieDave (Mar 6, 2020),

PJs (Nov 21, 2018),

Seedtick (Nov 21, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 21, 2018),

volodar (Nov 21, 2018)

----------


## PJs

Outstanding find Jon! Fitting on all counts...I went through them all on the LoC site. Looks like a lot of them were scanned 1900ppi. I'll have a look at one of the 100mb tiffs I liked!

----------

philipUsesWood&Brass (Nov 29, 2018)

----------


## marksbug

crack that whip!!every min counts...... my grand parents ran a pencil factory in cali(oravillaI think) mom worked there when she was in HS .everybody had quotas, noisey as hell, you made extra $$ for going over your quota, but they had to be full boxes. so you made a box or 2 more short then a box short a few for the next day to ensure a good day....

----------


## PJs

Nice old photos for the Muskgrave Pencil Company in Shelbyville TN. This was on google images not sure I should post but like the image.

WWII vintage


~PJ

----------

Beserkleyboy (Nov 24, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 24, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Nice old photos for the Muskgrave Pencil Company in Shelbyville TN. This was on google images not sure I should post but like the image.
> 
> WWII vintage
> 
> 
> ~PJ



TOO LATE; I HIT IT RIGHT AWAY. Pictures are good, but for me real impact is essay by what is likely a Musgrave descendant, definitely not some takeover hooligan. The original proprietor saw opportunity and seized them, or suspended old work for a long lived company. That should guarantee protection from 2nd rate imports.

----------

Beserkleyboy (Nov 24, 2018),

PJs (Nov 26, 2018)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

...I'm an old pencil tragic...Dixon Ticonderoga for me. #s 2,2.5, and 3 do the trick. First got into them writing triplicate carbon invoices (remember those?) in the family timber yard in Calif in the 60's. Now I have to order online and pay stupid postage...and the Mexican build quality is a bit hit and miss these days, leads not concentric to outer makes for an unbalanced point. Just the other week, the grandson (12) asked me, 'Grampy, how come you use so many pencils?'...I sent him home with a few and a sharpener..cheers guys

Jim

----------

philipUsesWood&Brass (Nov 29, 2018),

PJs (Nov 26, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 24, 2018)

----------


## hemmjo

It is unfortunate to see pencils going the way of the typewriter. Kids are not even taught how to write in school anymore.

----------

Beserkleyboy (Nov 25, 2018),

PJs (Nov 26, 2018)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Too true! Campbell (grandson) likes his pencils with erasers and has been showing them off at school.. the teacher was confused, but then decided he was quite right and gave a lesson about writing instruments. So hope is not lost! At least not in in Young, NSW (pop 12,000). Cheers
Jim

----------

PJs (Nov 26, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 25, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

I've no kids, but mentored 100's. Few related with writing instruments as means to furnish a document. 
Worse yet, less carried pen and paper to record salient thoughts. 
It doesn't end there! Maybe ten of the lot could sketch out a visualization. All ten participated in Dean Kamen/ Woodie Flowers program called FIRST Robotics. 

It's hard figuring out where success of the STEM [Science Technology Engineering Mathematics] program levels the field. If means to convey original ideas depends on digital access; which cannot be equally distributed to all, little real progress has been made! Who decides those more deserving, better suited, easier to reach?
Is the educational goal of integration unintentionally broadening its own segregation?

----------

Beserkleyboy (Nov 25, 2018),

HobieDave (Mar 6, 2020),

Papa Bill (Nov 29, 2018),

PJs (Nov 26, 2018)

----------


## VinnieL

Personally I have always loved mechanical pencils. I have several. I love the way they write and draw. Used them for years making Crime Scene drawings.

----------


## Beserkleyboy

All good points...the smarter we get, the dumber we become...or something like that. Was not aware of STEM, but seems to be deeply entrenched in the Australian public and private schools.Common sense seems to be the first and most obvious casualty of the tech revolution...go figure. And just BTW, no kids here either...step grandson! one of 8...
Jim
30 yr Calif expat in AUS

----------

philipUsesWood&Brass (Nov 29, 2018),

PJs (Nov 26, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Personally I have always loved mechanical pencils. I have several. I love the way they write and draw. Used them for years making Crime Scene drawings.



Hmmm. Crime Scene drawings. You a planner or investigator? lol.

I agree on mechanical pencils. Sort of costly, nice ones are worth it. 
Graded wood pencils still have a good feel for drafting, but not so hot in general away from the board. To me, proper sharpeners have disappeared. 
Mechanical pencils 1.1 Ø [lead holders] need a couple small items to function but are superior otherwise. Have a pretzel bucket full of spare lead, all grades, insuring I'll live to 130.
Clutch pencils [0.05 and 0.07 Ø] are convenient writing wise, and giving or losing one no big deal. 10 for $1.50. I'd like them more with colored lead easier to find. Time comes I want to mark drawing features red or green. So here I use ink most of all. 
Drafting has really gone down hill, CAD users have no clue how line weight enhances readability. Big deal, the program reads it accurately. Programs don't crank handles. So colored ink stands in, when a lot of leader lines intersect without a break, to match coordinates.

----------

philipUsesWood&Brass (Nov 29, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> All good points...the smarter we get, the dumber we become...or something like that. Was not aware of STEM, but seems to be deeply entrenched in the Australian public and private schools.Common sense seems to be the first and most obvious casualty of the tech revolution...go figure. And just BTW, no kids here either...step grandson! one of 8...
> Jim
> 30 yr Calif expat in AUS



I'm not absorbed by conspiracy theories, but STEM works being subsidized by all kinds, mostly tech corporations. With vocational ed tossed out the window, STEM has become a tax shield. That easily could been a lobbyist's coup. Not unlike the health-care chimes ringing awhile here. 
My previous employer compensated any participants 1:1 up to 100 hours a year. Granted, you had to complete your promise to accumulate more. At times we had 200+ 'volunteers'. Websters doesn't connect volunteerism with pay. Someone got it past tax authorities and stockholders. Absolute guessitimation says that could be $750,000.
The only way they'll remain afloat is generating successive generations of employees. What they used to get for free, with somewhat broader talents and interests.
Go figure.

----------

Beserkleyboy (Nov 25, 2018)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Toolmaker, Re: your pencil and drafting notes. I quite enjoyed mechanical drawing in High School, and always drew plans on a new or complex project before firing up the tools. And then came (at that time, 2007) Google SketchUp! Instant CAD for dummies...Now I draw EVERYTHING prior to working; it irons out most potential stuff ups. I also taught young Campbell at age 9 and he picked it up straight away. As he has gotten older, he has learned to plan ahead. His mum reckons that program has a huge effect on his organisational skills AND his patience. Chalk one up for Grampy! Whenever he comes over (occasional weekends at the beach, 315km from home), his first request is 'what are we gonna build, Grampy' or 'Can we do some drawing?' So, my bit of mentoring seems to be working... Good times...cheers
Jim

----------

philipUsesWood&Brass (Nov 29, 2018)

----------


## PJs

Whelp I've missed a couple of days here but love where you guys took the pencil stuff.

Berserkleyboy, good on that teacher and your G-son for adding writing instruments to the curriculum! I've always carried at least a pencil and for perhaps 3 decades carried a pen (YC Quad Point - RGB and backup pencil for drawing markups) and a .5mm mechanical pencil with eraser. _[Never draw more in the morning than you can erase in the afternoon.]_ When my G-son was about 6-8mo. and just talking well, he used to point at them or try to pull them from my pocket when carrying him. So I taught him the names of each and within 30 minutes was able to point and he say the name...needless to say him and I write and draw a lot now at 3. Good to start'em young, imho.

Personally still like quality wood pencils and colored ones too. I've colored 1.5 Anatomy Coloring Books and a fair number of my own sketching's over the years and still a big fan of Sacred Geometry with a ruler, compass, and pencil, then color them in. My favorite pencil is still the mechanical drafting pencils and Staedtler Mars White plastic erasers with a desktop spin sharpener although I have a hand held with carbide teeth that I like a lot.

To me one of the best things is the smell of a freshly sharpened wooden pencil, preferably cedar...TM51 you are right about good sharpeners hard to find them of quality anymore.

As for STEM...it may be a bit corrupted but the idea of it can give kids purpose, kind of like Science Fair used to be. I'm all for giving kids a view of carrots that tempt them to explore and learn on their own and a nudge when they get stuck or need a vector. To me it's about time Industry stepped in to help educate kids, Europe has been doing it for years. A friend from Germany and I were having a conversation the other day about this very subject and their Vocation/education programs (heavily supported by industry) are really excellent and support a students abilities and wants....seems most people in Germany have at least a masters anymore, and half of the people I worked with back then were PhD's. STEM just need to be kept Real to the students with abundant carrots and Minimized Hype, imho.

Lastly, Kudo's to those workers and factories that allowed us to express our ideas through their hard work of making pencils.

 :Big Grin:  PJ

----------

Beserkleyboy (Nov 26, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 26, 2018)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

PJ. thanks for that. And just to keep the poor old pencil alive, here's a couple of pics of my sharpeners, both still SHARP! The Chicago is the everyday one mounted on the wall of the workshop. The green one has no name, but is probably early 20th century gear, acquired at auction ($5) of Cockatoo Island Shipyard gear in 1991. It still works well but needs an overhaul....


Cheers
Jim

----------

PJs (Nov 27, 2018),

volodar (Nov 28, 2018)

----------


## marksbug

Ive been known to take a box of pencils and 1 at a time put them in my drill and sharpen them.. around hear the pens never work, the mechanicle peencils drop the lead out and...I like playing with my drill....all of them.

----------


## Jon

Car repair workshop; labeled as 1930. Nice ceiling storage. I guess they slit the beams, and then they just put a hook in there? Looks great with pistons.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

EnginePaul (Nov 28, 2018),

Howder1951 (Nov 28, 2018),

PJs (Nov 27, 2018),

Seedtick (Nov 27, 2018),

wolfpaak (Nov 27, 2018)

----------


## PJs

> PJ. thanks for that. And just to keep the poor old pencil alive, here's a couple of pics of my sharpeners, both still SHARP! The Chicago is the everyday one mounted on the wall of the workshop. The green one has no name, but is probably early 20th century gear, acquired at auction ($5) of Cockatoo Island Shipyard gear in 1991. It still works well but needs an overhaul....
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Jim



That Chicago is no young'n either...looks to have a cast iron base. The green one is a beast but looks like you can't sharpen short pencils... :Stick Out Tongue: 

Thanks for the pics Jim!

PJ

----------


## Beserkleyboy

PJ, The Chicago is probably 1960s. The base is cast 'pot metal', probably zinc, tin or such.The helical cutters are as sharp as...a real testament to old school 'fit for purpose' manufacturing...never been resharpened! I enjoy the sound and Insense Cedar smell from each and every sharpening! The travel on the spring loaded feed device of the green one allows any length above maybe 2". Its housing is sort of a bent cast material, not like modern steel plate, but visually porous surface like cast iron. maybe someone here can explain the metallurgy, I only do wood-urgy... Cheers 
Jim

----------

philipUsesWood&Brass (Nov 29, 2018),

PJs (Nov 27, 2018)

----------


## PJs

No clue about bent cast material...doesn't make sense, but what do I know. Could be that it is sheet metal but was seriously oxidized, then restored and painted along the way¿ Looks like several layers of paint. The radius top and front panel may be lead soldered like old body work which can have very clean lines??

Cheers,
PJ

----------

Beserkleyboy (Nov 27, 2018)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

PJ. Big rainy day here...been Google image looking for maker of the green machine! Found a good pic on Pinterest of the EXACT same machine! I've messaged the person to see if she has any ideas...stay tuned...
Jim

----------


## Moby Duck

Those "slit" beams look like 6" nails to me, not slits. You can see them better if you blow up the picture and look at some of the items that are hanging on them.

https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Nov 28, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Those "slit" beams look like 6" nails to me, not slits. You can see them better if you blow up the picture and look at some of the items that are hanging on them.
> 
> https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



Yup, 'slits' are nail shadows. 1930's would need decent lighting in foreground to overcome backlit exposure of windows. There is a deep field of view denoting a small aperture. Very good detail front to back and entire width. Kind of sepia looking, I expect it really was black and white.
I want two of those 18" steering wheels for mill knee cranks. I knocked about for some joke about shop overhead, but nothing worthwhile :Frown:

----------

PJs (Nov 28, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

> Car repair workshop; labeled as 1930. Nice ceiling storage. I guess they slit the beams, and then they just put a hook in there? Looks great with pistons.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



 I know where that set of 4 open skirt pistons would fetch a $1000.00 apiece right now tonight. I could also unload those Waukesha and Buda or the set of Packard within a couple of hours. But for me personally I'd take that leg vice and those transmissions lying on the lower right side. Did anyone notice the pair of 24" head or block shaving files hanging on the rt hand wall?

----------

PJs (Nov 28, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 27, 2018)

----------


## wizard69

> Personally I have always loved mechanical pencils. I have several. I love the way they write and draw. Used them for years making Crime Scene drawings.



That is interesting, are Crime Scene drawings even made anymore? Seems like a few photos and an edit program would be far faster.

Given that I grew up years ago and the high school I attended still offered mechanical drawing classes. There is certainly a reward from taking a pencil to paper that you can't get from CAD drawings. While the company has gone completely digital with tool design I still like having the ability to quickly and sometimes crudely sketch out ideas.

----------


## wizard69

> Hmmm. Crime Scene drawings. You a planner or investigator? lol.
> 
> I agree on mechanical pencils. Sort of costly, nice ones are worth it. 
> Graded wood pencils still have a good feel for drafting, but not so hot in general away from the board. To me, proper sharpeners have disappeared. 
> Mechanical pencils 1.1 Ø [lead holders] need a couple small items to function but are superior otherwise. Have a pretzel bucket full of spare lead, all grades, insuring I'll live to 130.
> Clutch pencils [0.05 and 0.07 Ø] are convenient writing wise, and giving or losing one no big deal. 10 for $1.50. I'd like them more with colored lead easier to find. Time comes I want to mark drawing features red or green. So here I use ink most of all. 
> Drafting has really gone down hill, CAD users have no clue how line weight enhances readability. Big deal, the program reads it accurately. Programs don't crank handles. So colored ink stands in, when a lot of leader lines intersect without a break, to match coordinates.



Boy did you hit upon one important issue, the state of CAD drawing. I think part of this is due to the loss of drafting as a profession, a lot of companies require their engineers to generate all drawings from details on up. Of course none of these engineers have had extensive training in generating engineering drawings, nor do they have the time to care. Also there is an an assumption that high quality color is available every where and further they assume a drawing will never be ran through a photo copier. I've seen electrical drawings that really suffered from poor drawing practices and then people wonder why the machine doesn't work right.

----------


## marksbug

Hmm that kinda looks like our old shop.....kinda, I washed the floors after those guys moved out...

the machine dosent work right because the engineer dont know squat, have never operated anyything but thier computer and phone,not a clue haw the real world works.just do a little on the putter and let it finish the job...without any real input as to what the thingys is supposed to do....Imho engineers that havent successfully worked building repairing and making thongs before they "got engineered on paper" are for the most part full of them selves and brown stuff that stinks and usually clueless but have excuses for everything and can site oh somuch useless stuff thats usually rong but like to hear them selves thinking they are impressing somebody....and yes the uneducated guy/gal can come up with oh somuch stuff that works or is transferable to somany other things..kinda like Heady Lamar.and oh somany others.janators,field hands and somany others that addvanced the world as we know it. even all of us with out solutions to whatever that may or may not work for us but can be added to too do what we are needing it to do. remember there is always a better mouse trap...somewhere else.

----------


## volodar

Beserkleyboy, thanks for the pics. My goto pencil sharpener is a "BOSTON Self Feeder 4" . Its general config is like your pegboard mounted one, but the mechanism is identical to your green one's. Bought new in Toronto in 1959 for first year university. Now mounted upside down to picnic table serving as office and computer desk. It never fails.

Peter

----------


## Jon

> Hoisting a 46 ton girder into place during construction of the Consolidated Gas Company building, 15th Street and Irving Place, New York, August 4, 1913



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Nov 29, 2018),

Seedtick (Nov 28, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 28, 2018)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Volodar, good onya! I only ever found out about the self feeders when I spied this fellow at the Cockatoo Island Auctions...and people wonder why anyone 'still' uses pencils...Philistines...
Jim

----------

volodar (Nov 28, 2018)

----------


## threesixesinarow

Search Results: "LOT 2011" - Prints & Photographs Online Catalog (Library of Congress)

The photos from Gulbransen reminded me of pictures in George Dodds Days at the Factories from a hundred years earlier.



https://books.google.com/books/about...d=udkDAAAAQAAJ

Many interesting engravings and descriptions.

Julien Turgan published a similar series of articles, les grands Usines about 20 years later, CNUM - 4KY15 : Les grandes usines

----------

PJs (Nov 28, 2018)

----------


## PJs

> Boy did you hit upon one important issue, the state of CAD drawing. I think part of this is due to the loss of drafting as a profession, a lot of companies require their engineers to generate all drawings from details on up. Of course none of these engineers have had extensive training in generating engineering drawings, nor do they have the time to care. Also there is an an assumption that high quality color is available every where and further they assume a drawing will never be ran through a photo copier. I've seen electrical drawings that really suffered from poor drawing practices and then people wonder why the machine doesn't work right.






> *Wizard69:* Given that I grew up years ago and the high school I attended still offered mechanical drawing classes. There is certainly a reward from taking a pencil to paper that you can't get from CAD drawings. While the company has gone completely digital with tool design I still like having the ability to quickly and sometimes crudely sketch out ideas.






> *Toolmaker51:* Drafting has really gone down hill, CAD users have no clue how line weight enhances readability. Big deal, the program reads it accurately. Programs don't crank handles. So colored ink stands in, when a lot of leader lines intersect without a break, to match coordinates.



All good points about drafting whether CAD or board drafting...Engineering standards Are and Have been (ASME Y14/ANSI Y14) since 1973 IIRC and updated regularly. CAD has been added as well as Geometric tolerancing and many others modules since. I don't agree that Engineering curriculum's don't teach it anymore but somewhat agree that they don't necessarily have time to do the true standard practices and that is a management issue.

CAD has added a lot to engineering since it's inception in 83' by Autodesk and was based on ASME/ANSI standards within the program itself...but it's main feature was it was vector based allowing for accuracy beyond any scale and pencil at 16 decimal places. Secondarily the ease of editing made it just a matter of drawing a few lines then edit, edit, edit to create any shape or objects. It's early versions went through some issues with line weights and particularly leader lines and extension lines not being properly placed but it's much better now and even allows for European standards. Another excellent use of modern CAD is proto-development and interference testing _Prior_ to release...and the all powerful OZ of Parametric modeling.

The problems arise with printing or plotting to those resolutions and forget about copy machines as they print/scale unevenly in X & Y. Vectors to Pixels with electro/mechanical's thrown is an interpolation at best. As for color prints, I see no need and think it is sometimes a hindrance except for possibly electrical drawings (part of the IEC/IEEE standards), assembly drawings, or ISO's/3D renderings. Line weights should Only be used to make a point (per Standards). Prints should only be worked from and not used as templates, ever. With CAD and Cam we have the opportunity to transfer file/vector data directly and now with 3D printing - directly to manufacture. Pretty darn cool to me.

The real issue is that most companies start on napkin or tablet/pencil sketches, may move to board drafting, but today directly to CAD. They hire newbee Engineers/drafters/cad people (Cheap) run them hard and put them away wet, having little regard for _document control within the company_, at least in the early years...if they live through them. Truth is, my experience with Good machinist's/fabricators I've worked with, is a napkin sketch and a 20min conversation will almost always return a perfect part and sometimes better than I wanted, unless it's very complex or multiple specific tolerances.

My particular pet peeve is with companies supplying CAD drawings for their products...even McMaster has a good library, but typically the drawings themselves are a mess with mismatched dimensions to the actual line dimensions and a lot of times what I call dirty lines (when I was teaching ACAD), that is multiple lines over the top of one another and not joined at the ends or corners...drives me nuttier than I already am. I could have drawn the component faster than cleaning up their mess sometimes. So much for Libraries. ACAD has really worked on this and 360 is pretty impressive library wise. Solid Works also but my experience is limited with it. I've built thousands over the years as accurately (4 decimal) as I can...it's One more great value that CAD adds to the engineer/designers tool box...as long as they are to Standards!

Guess I spewed again, eh?

 :Embarrassed:  PJ

----------

Frank S (Nov 28, 2018),

volodar (Nov 28, 2018)

----------


## Ralphxyz

What a great/interesting photo back then apparently needing a replacement piston was a common occurrence.

There are so many items of interest if you really scan the photo, a lot seems familiar as my "shop" memory goes back about 65 years.

Ralph

----------

PJs (Nov 29, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

IregardlineweightanimportantfeatureofworkingdrawingsOtherwiseitsnothingbutj umbledinformationobscuringobjectdesiredEquallyimportantarecarefullydistribu tedleaderlinesconnectingdimensionswithrespectiveelementsIshallpostanothorri bledrawingthatstillneedshighlightingtoaidcalculatingtooloffsetsformillingpo cketsofanextrusiondieDesignerlaughedwhenhesawmyinhancementquestioningwhyIre pliedbecauseitlookslikeapoorlydoneLosAngelesstreetmapSketchorlegitimatedraw ingifyouworkonyourowntheissueisreducedRatherlikedifferencebetweencleardirec tionsandinterpretedforeignversions

----------


## Frank S

> IregardlineweightanimportantfeatureofworkingdrawingsOtherwiseitsnothingbutj umbledinformationobscuringobjectdesiredEquallyimportantarecarefullydistribu tedleaderlinesconnectingdimensionswithrespectiveelementsIshallpostanothorri bledrawingthatstillneedshighlightingtoaidcalculatingtooloffsetsformillingpo cketsofanextrusiondieDesignerlaughedwhenhesawmyinhancementquestioningwhyIre pliedbecauseitlookslikeapoorlydoneLosAngelesstreetmapSketchorlegitimatedraw ingifyouworkonyourowntheissueisreducedRatherlikedifferencebetweencleardirec tionsandinterpretedforeignversions



 Translation
I regard line weight an important feature of working drawings Otherwise its nothing but jumbled information obscuring object desired Equally important are carefully distributed leader lines connecting dimensions with respective elements I shall post another rib le drawing that still needs highlighting to aid calculating tool off sets for milling pockets of an extrusion die Designer laughed when he saw my enhancement questioning why I re plied because it looks like a poorly done Los Angeles street map Sketch or legitimate drawing if you work on your own the issue is reduced Rather like difference between clear directions and interpreted foreign versions

I have found many drawings which were exactly like your post But I believe you intentionally did it like that to prove a point

----------

PJs (Nov 29, 2018)

----------


## volodar

> IregardlineweightanimportantfeatureofworkingdrawingsOtherwiseitsnothingbutj umbledinformationobscuringobjectdesiredEquallyimportantarecarefullydistribu tedleaderlinesconnectingdimensionswithrespectiveelementsIshallpostanothorri bledrawingthatstillneedshighlightingtoaidcalculatingtooloffsetsformillingpo cketsofanextrusiondieDesignerlaughedwhenhesawmyinhancementquestioningwhyIre pliedbecauseitlookslikeapoorlydoneLosAngelesstreetmapSketchorlegitimatedraw ingifyouworkonyourowntheissueisreducedRatherlikedifferencebetweencleardirec tionsandinterpretedforeignversions



Toolmaker 51, did you do this on purpose? Or, were you touch typing with a failed spacebar microswitch? Actually, the text is - readable even with the odd typo or dropout. Germans, however, do concatenate words. Don't know if there's a length limit. First came across this in a book at age 12 or so, mostly pictures but in German. I'd done grades one and two in Innsbruck, after fleeing from the Ukraine, and was now in late elementary in Buenos Aires. The word that surprised me in the German quasi science coffee table book was "Raketenantriebenflugzeug", literally "rocket propelled flying thing". No problem, I knew all the parts. In English things happen in the opposite direction. My wife's convertible is sometimes referred to as a "vert". A certain Chrysler muscle car was a "cuda". On the odd IT help forum I cringe when I see "puter". I attribute this to what I think of as "sloppy American speech" but must admit I've seen Canadian students do this as well.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Translation
> I regard line weight an important feature of working drawings Otherwise its nothing but jumbled information obscuring object desired Equally important are carefully distributed leader lines connecting dimensions with respective elements I shall post another rib le drawing that still needs highlighting to aid calculating tool off sets for milling pockets of an extrusion die Designer laughed when he saw my enhancement questioning why I re plied because it looks like a poorly done Los Angeles street map Sketch or legitimate drawing if you work on your own the issue is reduced Rather like difference between clear directions and interpreted foreign versions
> 
> I have found many drawings which were exactly like your post But I believe you intentionally did it like that to prove a point



I've not been diagnosed with dyslexia, but obvious traces of it or another perceptive hitch in me, along with astigmatism. It's OK, I can still read verniers better than most. 
No surprise, I would have bet Frank S be first to make the example readable. He has touches of related impairments too.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Toolmaker 51, did you do this on purpose? Or were you touch typing with a failed spacebar microswitch? Actually, the text is surprisingly readable even with the odd typo or dropout. But then, Germans concatenate words all the time. Don't know if there's a length limit to it. First came across it in a book at age 12 or so, mostly pictures but in German. I'd done grades one and two in Innsbruck, after fleeing from the Ukraine, was now in late elementary in Buenos Aires. The word that surprised me in the German quasi science coffee table book was "Raketenantriebenflugzeug" , literally "rocket propelled flying thing". No problem, I knew all the parts. In English it's the opposite. My wife's convertible is sometimes referred to as a "vert". A certain Chrysler muscle car was a "cuda". And, on the odd IT help forum I see "puter".



Intentional, and I mean to post drawing referenced. 

The goofy text is a different impasse of ready understanding. But, a yummy lol: I had intermittent space-bar problem too. Air duster repair job, versus nice pizza crust and crushed peppers.

----------

PJs (Nov 29, 2018),

volodar (Nov 28, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

I have only just last night completed scanning my late mother's life journal into my computer, She started to write her journal in 1997 hoping that someday her grand children might have a chance to read it her last entry was sometime in 2005 after abruptly ending mid sentence. she passed away I think in 2007 I say I think because I was in Kuwait.
The only relevants' of what I am saying has to do with this thread is the fact that even in her octogenarian years with failing eyesight and crippled hands her hand writing was some of the most eloquently formed of any that I have ever read. I wish I could say the same for my writing and for sure wish many of the younger engineer/ drafts persons had half the command of their drawing abilities and she did of her hand writing.
I have started copying her journal to type I stated in my prolog insert that I will copy her writings word for word punctuation spelling sentence and paragraph formulation exactly as she wrote in her journal. I am currently on page 12 of a 200 page journal and my word program has not issued a single red line query.
I am though adding balloon notations which will be explained in the epilogue of any omissions she may have left out.

----------

Beserkleyboy (Nov 29, 2018),

PJs (Nov 29, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 29, 2018)

----------


## Moby Duck

We think of these construction workers and riggers as being good at what they do, but what about the fabricator that drilled all of those rivet holes and got them all to line up so well. Tens of thousands of matching rivet holes, probably marked out by hand and individually drilled.

----------


## Moby Duck

> I have only just last night completed scanning my late mother's life journal into my computer, She started to write her journal in 1997 hoping that someday her grand children might have a chance to read it her last entry was sometime in 2005 after abruptly ending mid sentence. she passed away I think in 2007 I say I think because I was in Kuwait.
> The only relevants' of what I am saying has to do with this thread is the fact that even in her octogenarian years with failing eyesight and crippled hands her hand writing was some of the most eloquently formed of any that I have ever read. I wish I could say the same for my writing and for sure wish many of the younger engineer/ drafts persons had half the command of their drawing abilities and she did of her hand writing.
> I have started copying her journal to type I stated in my prolog insert that I will copy her writings word for word punctuation spelling sentence and paragraph formulation exactly as she wrote in her journal. I am currently on page 12 of a 200 page journal and my word program has not issued a single red line query.
> I am though adding balloon notations which will be explained in the epilogue of any omissions she may have left out.



Why don't you just scan them Frank, then the handwriting is preserved forever.

----------


## Frank S

Moby Duck, I have them scanned. Now while my generation was brought up learning to read and write not just print. My Daughter's generation still partially so. At least both of my daughters can write. However in terms of the next generation of kids almost all of the millennials under the age of 25 or 30 are not even taught cursive in many of the schools any more. My youngest Daughter has been teaching 3rd grade for 18 years she told me that the curriculum for teaching cursive beyond just the student's signature has been do drastically reduced most students coming into her class have never even seen it. plus they can barely even print legibly.
I am typing my mother's journal to be included with the scanned pages then I will burn them to a mini DVD or thumb drive or SD or what ever the preferred storage media happens to be. At the same time I will print up Hard copy books for my two sisters, my kids and their kids if they want hard copy books for their grand children or great grand children I will print and bind them.I can just as easily print and bind 50 books as I can 4 or 5.
But if anyone wants a copy of my life journal they are going to have to dig it out of my archives after I'm gone.

----------

PJs (Nov 29, 2018)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Wow! You are a lucky man....My mum saved a lot of my childhood stuff, which we found 'disassembling' her home of 40 years! And she passed on the packrat gene to me...seriously, she'll never be far away with that to share..my dad, with a big ego, started a book about the family and the lumber business. He had a big stroke at 49, but one hand typed on 3x5 index cards, both sides, 120 of them. Some absolute gems of stories. The best was as a Captain in the Red Ball Express in Belgium, he had big quantities of 'stuff' going through the warehouse. They had an oversupply of Remington typewriters....so dad arranged a 1 carat solitaire diamond for Mum's engagement ring in exchange for a wack of typewriters to a South African fellow...and I'm sure he took 'orders' for other goods in exchanges as well, a real wheeler dealer he was...Enjoy mum's musings. Cheers
Jim

----------

Frank S (Nov 29, 2018),

PJs (Nov 29, 2018)

----------


## philipUsesWood&Brass

When I enlarged that car repair shop photo, I just barely discern the heads on those nails/spikes. Probably 8 - 10 inch common nails. 

I absolutely love these ultra fine grain photo's. They remind me of B&W photography that I did in RVN, 69/70. I shot Tri-X exclusively, @ 400 ASA except for Night photography then I would "push" the ASA speed to 1200 ASA and still do hand held shots: our helicopter Maintainance crews would just leave their truck lights on a bird, and when needed, a Flashlight.

Our TI's Only used Flaslights, and "Tunnel Vision" ...

I recall one Late night TI have a SEVERE CASE of "What the Hell's" when he found a Large wrench in a Closed Tail of an H-Model Huey. TAILS were Always Left open if you were "STILL" Working on the Aircraft, And WHAT ~OTHER~ Reason would a Tool be in a Tail Boom ? ? ? ?

philip,
AKA Trouble-Shooter 1 5: I Never Carried a FlashLight, I was to CLOSE to the Berm Line and the little people loved a lit up target.

----------

PJs (Nov 29, 2018)

----------


## philipUsesWood&Brass

> I know where that set of 4 open skirt pistons would fetch a $1000.00 apiece right now tonight. I could also unload those Waukesha and Buda or the set of Packard within a couple of hours. But for me personally I'd take that leg vice and those transmissions lying on the lower right side. Did anyone notice the pair of 24" head or block shaving files hanging on the rt hand wall?



Even that battery in the Lower Right corner makes me drool! But I was BORN with electricity in my Soul: my Dad work on the Beldon Dam, Feather River California when I was just 18 months old. Was around Electrical things all my life. I even spent a year "unplugged" from ~Store bought Power~ the cost to bring in AC was more than I paid for my twenty acres. My Chevy had a Dual Battery charger, and we Rotated Three 12VDC Batteries to light our log cabin & listen to the (Old Truck Radio) at Night!

philip

----------

PJs (Nov 29, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 29, 2018)

----------


## philipUsesWood&Brass

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



LOOK at that ladder!!! 2X4 construction, With a scab Plate at hand hight of the man on the far left!!!!

OSHA would of closed that Whole Construction site down over stuff like that. (Thank God they did not exist for the Most Part of Building our Country).

philip

----------

PJs (Nov 29, 2018)

----------


## PJs

> Intentional, and I mean to post drawing referenced. 
> Attachment 26646
> The goofy text is a different impasse of ready understanding. But, a yummy lol: I had intermittent space-bar problem too. Air duster repair job, versus nice pizza crust and crushed peppers.



I teg your tniop TM51 about my esobrev weps and ytilibigel. I would have given his drawing back and said to the guy; "Did you do this? Really?...Do You know how much this will cost? Is this going to the Moon? Fix it!" First off he could have referenced the datum and first feature, then dimensioned the feature with X times .9850 as well as the gaps with X times .2159 and saved you a Swad of work. If the features weren't equal there still other more simplistic ways to dimension. Near as I can tell he was just being lazy, dimensioning. Decimal Points = $$$...Hello! You can draw to 4 decimals but dimension to 2 or 3 with tolerances in the tolerance block...eciffo ym fo tou enog evah reven dlouw taht gniward A 

JP

----------


## PJs

Good Story Frank. I did similar with Mom's great recipes (Beautiful handwriting also) and published a small book of Dad's great stories (50yr toastmaster) and saying's for the family after I went through all of his stuff, computer and otherwise. Also did his memorial video of his 80 years of Living Life!

These great pictures that Jon finds and post and our own family photos and treasures have some high word counts worth archiving...when we look at the details and faces, clothing, settings and backgrounds, etc., stories abound, and I for one am grateful at my age to have a few and appreciate those of others...hopefully to pass forward something from our time here for others to gain insight.

PJ

----------

Frank S (Nov 29, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

> Good Story Frank. I did similar with Mom's great recipes (Beautiful handwriting also) and published a small book of Dad's great stories (50yr toastmaster) and saying's for the family after I went through all of his stuff, computer and otherwise. Also did his memorial video of his 80 years of Living Life!
> 
> These great pictures that Jon finds and post and our own family photos and treasures have some high word counts worth archiving...when we look at the details and faces, clothing, settings and backgrounds, etc., stories abound, and I for one am grateful at my age to have a few and appreciate those of others...hopefully to pass forward something from our time here for others to gain insight.
> 
> PJ



 Humans are genetically capable of passing on all accumulated knowledge known from the mother at the inception of our off springs the father's knowledge is imprinted in the gnomes of his chromosomes and dna which is passed on via the sperm cells, However we do not know how to access this knowledge consciously since our brains have not been trained or evolved to the level of being able to access these memories or knowledge. 
the human brain has roughly 78 to 92% more power than the average human ever utilizes. 
It is my firm conviction that one day should humans not wipe themselves out of existence we may eventually learn to train our brains to much higher levels. and eventually obtain abilities to not only access but also relay to others all of our accumulated knowledge much the dame way we can bluetooth info from our phones.
Until then these threads with the historical pictures and subsequent discussions of them are the best we can hope for right now.

----------

PJs (Nov 30, 2018)

----------


## Jon

> Line of drop hammers in forge shop, Midvale Steel & Ordnance Co. Eddystone, PA Apr. 1918



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Nov 30, 2018),

Seedtick (Nov 30, 2018)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Seems to be a lot of people just standing around watching the line work.

Ralph

----------


## PJs

The guy half way down the line is giving the camera guy the L@@K! Great pic though, all the way to the grease on the rack and pinions and the guy in the corner with his hands on his hips lookin' like "Well I'll tell ya". A bit of water mold damage a quite scratched but for 100 years old in pretty good shape!

----------


## Jon

> U.S. Naval Gun Factory, Washington Navy Yard, Washington D.C. 1917.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Clockguy (Dec 2, 2018),

Seedtick (Dec 1, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



 This picture was taken without many of the workers knowing what was going on. note how most are ghosted or slightly blurred while the depth and clarity of the building and machines is great.

----------


## PJs

Agreed the contrast and lighting is excellent. In 1912 there wasn't much (exposure triangle- shutter speed, aperture and ISO[2006]) adjustment available so ghosting is very common prior to about the mid 40's. People that can shoot and develop this quality of B&W in 1912 were true artists.

Thanks Jon...got that one too...it's a perfect example for something I'm working on!

PJ

----------


## VinnieL

It is a beautiful photo with great sharp detail that could only be achieved with a very small aperature and longer shutter time. That is probably why the movement is evident in the workers. It is amazing that photos such as these are still around. It is a credit to whomever developed and printed the negatives, washing them properly to archival standards.

----------

PJs (Dec 2, 2018)

----------


## Clockguy

I hope that some of you, who are not clicking on the "original photo" above the photo that these guys are posting, will take time to look at that original photo. The definition is much clearer, some of these were taken with equipment which modern photographers consider "antique" but the definition of many of the original photos far exceeds the "save" capabilities of our modern digital procedures. Some are probably in their RAW state and can be processed with PhotoShop or some other quality photo editor to further enhance the looks of the image. Just a few thoughts from an old amateur .....

----------

PJs (Dec 2, 2018)

----------


## Clockguy

> The nose of the the USS Akron being attached. The Akron was a helium airship with a frame of Duralumin. In operation in the early 1930s, she went down in a thunderstorm, killing 73 of 76 crewmen and passengers.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...p_fullsize.jpg



I clearly remember, as a little kid back in the late '40's, pointing up in the sky at our mountain home place north of Harrisburg, PA and asking my dad "What is that, dad??" and he would always reply with "That's the Goodyear Blimp, son." no matter whether it was or not. I only ever saw one of these "blimps" with the word "GOODYEAR" written on its side floating over the mountains toward who knows where west of my birth place. It was a common sight and then ....... somewhere in my growing up years, that sight was gone to me. Sad thought .......

Edit: I sat down, on this rainy Sunday morning here on the "Forgotten Coast" of Florida, to get caught up on some of my interests, one of which is this website's posts. I managed to make it through the first 5 pages of this 31 page thread started by Jon some years ago and I want to thank you Jon for the time and effort you and others have put in on finding and researching information on these wonderful old B/W photos. 

I have taken a mental trip through the early part of the "Industrial Revolution" and into my early childhood days in the last few hours, and it has been a welcome addition to what little knowledge I have retained of this time period. At 76 years of age, you would think that I would have narrowed my interests in things of which I have little knowledge, for whatever reason. But, it seems that I have an even stronger thirst for knowing how and when and why we are where we are and what we have become today. 

We all have been raised in a "simpler age" no matter when we were born or how we were influenced by our environment and our technology of that time and place. And it is easy to overlook the background of _how_ we have developed into the society and the type of person we are today. It was a much safer time when I was a kid, we rarely locked our doors, we never worried about locking up firearms, dad thought nothing of leaving the keys in our car as us kids sat and waited for him to go buy some bolts at the hardware store on a Saturday morning. We never bothered testing our security systems, checking our night lights or alarms for dead batteries, we did not need these precautions to feel "safe". 

I don't doubt that the kids of today feel that they are growing up "simple and safe" as we once felt and they shrug at another one of "dad's stories" or of "grandpa's tales" of when HE was a little kid and actually WALKED a half mile to a school bus stop with other kids to go to school. When taken in the proper context, it all seems relevant to the times we have spent on this planet and the progress we have made and the risks we have had to face to get to this point in our lives. Mass shootings were not an issue, theft and kidnapping and rape were something which were not part of MY early life. I was born in the Appalachian mountains of PA and had not heard the "N" word on a local level until I was 21 and joined the military and saw firsthand what racial prejudice was all about. 

My point to this all is we are and will always be students of our lives and our surroundings no matter how widespread our travels or experiences have been. I have gone to places that many men cannot even pronounce and have seen sights which left me in awesome fear and wonderment that one man could do something that cruel to another. I have also seen wonders of life for which I have no explanation. I have gazed upon acts of nature, the most beautiful of which we have no knowledge nor the technology to reproduce today or hopefully ever. And, at the end of each day, I stand in amazement at one most beautiful sunset or another wonderful sight of nature at work, and I pray that I never lose that curiousity and desire to explore. I have found great pleasure in teaching my sons about what they are missing around them each day by challenging them to take a simple square yard of ground, in one of our horse pastures or along the shores of a nearby lake, or in a clearing of a mountain pass and find everything they can which inhabits that square yard. Of course, that challenge dwindled as they grew up and became more adapted to the outdoors and their own adventure seeking abilities grew stronger. But they never forgot to "stop and smell the roses" once in awhile and I like to think that they have challenged others to find out what lies in their own "square yard" of earth in Mother Nature's Backyard.

----------

Frank S (Dec 2, 2018),

glenntref (Dec 2, 2018),

olderdan (Dec 2, 2018),

PJs (Dec 2, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 2, 2018)

----------


## PJs

Well Said, Clockguy. Paricularly "_But, it seems that I have an even stronger thirst for knowing how and when and why we are where we are and what we have become today._" and the whole last paragraph. Bravo!

One of my favorite quotes/saying/songs come to mind.

_I think over again my small adventures.
My fears,
Those small ones that seemed so big.
For all the vital things I had to get and reach.
And yet there is only one great thing,
The only thing,
To live to see the great day that dawns and the light that fills the world.

Old Inuit song_

These captured moments feel like that square yard to me and being able to appreciate the details and the magnitude and complexity of that simple yard.

 :Hat Tip:  PJ

----------


## philipUsesWood&Brass

> Seems to be a lot of people just standing around watching the line work.
> 
> Ralph



Ralph, they all have What Appears tobe tongs holding "whatever" feeding into the drop hammer. What "got to me" was no safety devices for NOISE !!!

philip from the Great Pacific NorthWET.

----------


## Ralphxyz

Phillip, the guys "working" the line have tongs I am talking about the seven guys just standing around!

Ralph

----------


## mklotz

> Phillip, the guys "working" the line have tongs I am talking about the seven guys just standing around!
> 
> Ralph



They were probably told to face the camera and stand still for a time exposure. Poor shop lighting and slow film back then. Note how the guy on the far left is blurred; he didn't get the message about the time exposure and probably walked into the camera FOV.

----------


## Jon

Loading coal onto the British Astraea class cruiser HMS Charybdis at H.M. Dockyard. Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada. 1901.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Dec 4, 2018),

Seedtick (Dec 4, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 4, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

75 something guys. How many hours or shifts? At least half need wheelbarrows, and probably more shovels. One loading ramp in view, might have 2 coal hatches, Who knows how many cubic yards consumed in transit - did all ports have collieries? They'd still need water too, but evaporative desalinization had been ship sized awhile. Lube oils, coal scoops, foodstuffs, chandlery...HMS Charybdis appears to have masts as well, add a sail locker. 
I wonder at how deeply expenses were itemized, pure overhead, operating costs of a naval cruiser [or later sold for cargo use] to satisfy Admiralty or freighters so quotes could be made? All those are after she's been laid down; what about design phase justifying purchase? 

I'm thinking, do Naval Architects and those specifying vessels have same distaste for bean counters we mechanics do? 
Shorter answer might be who doesn't.

----------

PJs (Dec 5, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

> 75 something guys. How many hours or shifts? At least half need wheelbarrows, and probably more shovels. One loading ramp in view, might have 2 coal hatches, Who knows how many cubic yards consumed in transit - did all ports have collieries? They'd still need water too, but evaporative desalinization had been ship sized awhile. Lube oils, coal scoops, foodstuffs, chandlery...HMS Charybdis appears to have masts as well, add a sail locker. 
> I wonder at how deeply expenses were itemized, pure overhead, operating costs of a naval cruiser [or later sold for cargo use] to satisfy Admiralty or freighters so quotes could be made? All those are after she's been laid down; what about design phase justifying purchase? 
> 
> I'm thinking, do Naval Architects and those specifying vessels have same distaste for bean counters we mechanics do? 
> Shorter answer might be who doesn't.



 Logistically there would have to be at a minimum of 2 loading ramps 2 way traffic on a narrow ramp is never a good idea, as well as the personnel ramp in the distance

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Logistically there would have to be at a minimum of 2 loading ramps 2 way traffic on a narrow ramp is never a good idea, as well as the personnel ramp in the distance



Yep, found distant pics of the ship, none clear enough for detail. 2 ramps certainly logical. Passenger ramp too far astern from boilers and coal holds. Ramp they are using looks reinforced too...Inefficient but possible end of full wheelbarrow train clears ramp before 1st empty gets there? Pic seems to hold more fellas at the coal pile than pushing barrows...IDK. All those guys might fill 3 or 4 cuft wheelbarrow in good time. 
One picture worth 10,000 words. Good pictures invite 100,000 more. Analyzing still photos might be nearly as effective watching live with a stopwatch. 
Good exercise either way.

----------


## Jon

More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaling_(ships)

----------

EnginePaul (Dec 5, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 5, 2018)

----------


## Jon

You can tell a thread is great when you want to hold off on posting new content, so that the discussion can develop around the last photo, but you also find a new photo that you can't resist posting. In this case, I chose the latter.

Willys-Morrow Co. Belt Test of Curtiss OX-5 motors. Elmira, NY. 1918. (I believe Morrow Manufacturing was a company acquired by Willys-Overland, and renamed to Willys-Morrow.)

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Dec 9, 2018),

Miloslav (Dec 5, 2018),

PJs (Dec 5, 2018),

Seedtick (Dec 5, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 5, 2018)

----------


## PJs

> 75 something guys. How many hours or shifts? At least half need wheelbarrows, and probably more shovels. One loading ramp in view, might have 2 coal hatches, Who knows how many cubic yards consumed in transit - did all ports have collieries? They'd still need water too, but evaporative desalinization had been ship sized awhile. Lube oils, coal scoops, foodstuffs, chandlery...HMS Charybdis appears to have masts as well, add a sail locker. 
> I wonder at how deeply expenses were itemized, pure overhead, operating costs of a naval cruiser [or later sold for cargo use] to satisfy Admiralty or freighters so quotes could be made? All those are after she's been laid down; what about design phase justifying purchase? 
> 
> *I'm thinking, do Naval Architects and those specifying vessels have same distaste for bean counters we mechanics do? 
> Shorter answer might be who doesn't.*



Whelp, if they did they could use an eight car motorcade to move 250 feet and not tell the tax payers how much they spent doing that. Seems to never change even back in 1901...people power is always available and cheap, right.

----------


## Jon

Bottle washers at E.C. Dahls Brewery. Trondheim, Norway. 1916.

Fullsize image: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...1912263%29.jpg

----------

PJs (Dec 7, 2018),

Seedtick (Dec 8, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Shell manufacturing at Midvale Steel and Ordnance Co. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. 1918.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Dec 11, 2018),

PJs (Dec 9, 2018),

Seedtick (Dec 10, 2018)

----------


## Jon

> Coating the boiler with asbestos at the locomotive assembly plant, St. Nazaire, France. Feb 14, 1918.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Dec 13, 2018),

Seedtick (Dec 13, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

I'm trying to figure out if about 20 of those guys are on the clock or just in the shot.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I'm trying to figure out if about 20 of those guys are on the clock or just in the shot.



SLACKERS! Looks as cab and it's roof is a popular balcony, along with locomotive boiler mezzanine and frame aisle-ways. Those on floor? No app for pre-sale ticket orders...

----------


## PJs

Great pic of all those destined for asbestosis, regardless of slacker/posers. 

Curious what the tool is this guy is holding? Anyone know and it's use?

----------


## marksbug

looks like either a tucker...his favorite golf club or his favorite hoe......just in tyme for christmass, hoe hoe hoe!!! it could be a supdog but I doubt it.

----------

PJs (Dec 13, 2018),

volodar (Dec 14, 2018)

----------


## MeJasonT

> 75 something guys. How many hours or shifts? At least half need wheelbarrows, and probably more shovels. One loading ramp in view, might have 2 coal hatches, Who knows how many cubic yards consumed in transit - did all ports have collieries? They'd still need water too, but evaporative desalinization had been ship sized awhile. Lube oils, coal scoops, foodstuffs, chandlery...HMS Charybdis appears to have masts as well, add a sail locker. 
> I wonder at how deeply expenses were itemized, pure overhead, operating costs of a naval cruiser [or later sold for cargo use] to satisfy Admiralty or freighters so quotes could be made? All those are after she's been laid down; what about design phase justifying purchase? 
> 
> I'm thinking, do Naval Architects and those specifying vessels have same distaste for bean counters we mechanics do? 
> Shorter answer might be who doesn't.





This is the Cherry "B" I remember, My Opo served on her, she was sister ship to Danae. The relevance here gents is they were all steam ships, i'm sure our bloody things had sails as well. I can remember an exercise where we had a steering breakdown and had to hand pump the rudder into position, unfortunately it was officer of the watch manoeuvres with a young osifer, he got absolutely nailed for it, we were only supposed to centre the tiller not try sailing around all night.

all that nasty distane for accountants over the years, they are getting their own back now as company CEOs, They still cant add up for toffee.

----------

PJs (Dec 13, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 13, 2018)

----------


## MeJasonT

It looks round and domed, is it for the front of the boiler box/engine ?

----------

HobieDave (Mar 7, 2020),

PJs (Dec 13, 2018)

----------


## Jon

> Dipping rifles in oil before shipment, Midvale Steel and Ordnance Co. Eddystone PA Apr. 1918



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Dec 14, 2018),

Seedtick (Dec 13, 2018)

----------


## hemmjo

> Great pic of all those destined for asbestosis, regardless of slacker/posers. 
> 
> Curious what the tool is this guy is holding? Anyone know and it's use?
> 
> Attachment 26901



I wonder if it is a part of the locomotive, rather than a tool. Perhaps something similar to the "braces" at the front? 
 

And then... what about those work clothes. What color were they at the beginning of shift? They appear to be dark under the white layer. Do you suppose they wore them home so their wife could wash them? 


When I come home with clothes like that, typically mud or grease, my wife makes me use the pressure washer on them before they come into the laundry room. At least I do get to take them off first  :Smile:

----------

Jon (Dec 14, 2018),

PJs (Dec 14, 2018)

----------


## PJs

> I wonder if it is a part of the locomotive, rather than a tool. Perhaps something similar to the "braces" at the front? 
> 
> And then... what about those work clothes. What color were they at the beginning of shift? They appear to be dark under the white layer. Do you suppose they wore them home so their wife could wash them? 
> 
> When I come home with clothes like that, typically mud or grease, my wife makes me use the pressure washer on them before they come into the laundry room. At least I do get to take them off first



I thought that perhaps it was a part also but its shape lends itself to a tool to me and the marking/indent/protrusion on this end appears that it might match something. Perhaps some type of double ended pry bar because of the far end looking like a wedge of some type. It's the golf club end that is specialized I think.

Likely they did wear them home unfortunately. Funny about pressure washing while in them. Hate to admit it that I did that once after being in a crawl space full of water, adobe and whatever else was down there not intended for being in human contact...never again for crawl spaces or shooting oneself with High Pressure hot water.  :Smash:   :Stick Out Tongue:  Should'a just tossed the clothes and had a streak & dunk in the pond. Doh!

When I get a few I'll try to enhance the picture a bit...perhaps some other things will appear.

----------


## PJs

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dipping rifles in oil before shipment, Midvale Steel and Ordnance Co. Eddystone PA Apr. 1918



Great Quality Pic Jon, Thanks! A tell all in expression, especially the supervisors vs the workers. That was likely some form of Cosmoline in 1918 (invented by Satan according to some gun collectors). I can personally attest after stripping a brand new O3A3 back when I was a kid...Smelled great but a Pita to get it all off of every single nook and cranny and the stock wood...oh my. 

Interesting that it's derivations are ~140 years old and started as a pharmaceutical product.

https://www.originalcosmoline.com/who-we-are.php




> Cosmoline was developed by Houghton International in the late 1800's as a pharmaceutical product. The original Cosmoline was basically an ointment and was used for many different cosmetic and medical purposes. It was kept in homes to disinfect wounds and was used by veterinarians to treat cuts, abrasions, bruises and sprains. Cosmoline could even be found on the farms where it was used to relieve swelling in cow's udders.
> 
> As industry changed so did Cosmoline.
> 
> Cosmoline products were available in ranges from a light type fluid to a thick, heavy grease meant for long term protection. Cosmoline's versatility was unparalleled.
> 
> Cosmoline became an everyday name when it received a government specification as a rust preventive and began being used by the military to protect it's equipment from rust and corrosion. Cosmoline could be found on military equipment in the Spanish-American War, World War I, World War II, the Korean conflict and Vietnam.
> 
> In 1958 Schafco Packaging began packaging Cosmoline products into aerosol versions for Houghton International and in 2004 Schafco became the exclusive distributor for the Cosmoline Aerosol line of products.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Dec 14, 2018)

----------


## marksbug

Ill bet it even went into the future as cosmo cogs are probably coated with cosmoline....witch must be why they have robot maid's to clean the clothes...and pick up after elroy. keep the old pick coming!!! it's great to see where we came from and what we missed.

----------

PJs (Dec 17, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 14, 2018)

----------


## Unkle Fuzzy

Rifles are being dipped into heated Cosmoline to thin it and allow penetration into all the books and crannies. Even penetrates into the wood stock. 

I have been told many newly issued rifles were boiled in hot water to thin the Cosmoline and leach it out of the wood. These rifles were boiled whole action barrel and all. 

I know of collectors who buy mothballed Mausers and use that very method. If you try to scrape it off at room temp, more just migrates out of the hidey holes and gums up the mechanism.

----------

PJs (Dec 17, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 14, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> ........Interesting that it's derivations are ~140 years old and started as a pharmaceutical product.



Cosmoline was developed by Houghton International in the late 1800's as a pharmaceutical product. The original Cosmoline was basically an ointment and was used for many different cosmetic and medical purposes. It was kept in homes to disinfect wounds and was used by veterinarians to treat cuts, abrasions, bruises and sprains. Cosmoline could even be found on the farms where it was used to relieve swelling in cow's udders.


I find this factual, easily concurred on Wikipedia. Bag Balm originated 1899 and besides antiseptic properties, has all kinds of historic use. Always been a can in my house, but other uses never occurred to me. I'm old fashioned anyway; Ivory Soap, Vick's, Corn Husker's Lotion, SnoSeal, it's hard to find Ovaltine though
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bag_Balm

----------

PJs (Dec 17, 2018)

----------


## suther51

My brother-in-law bought a sks in the late 90s, shot it out of the box cosmoline n all. Guess he didn't know better, gun worked fine despite. I took the gun with me to work n the boss had a good chuckle n showed me how to break it down n clean it. Real simple n durable gun if a bit crude. Good ol days.
Eric

----------


## VinnieL

I have a friend who has an 1917 Eddystone rifle (cal. .30-06) and shoots it a lot. Sending this photo to him. 

I spent better part of a day removing Cosmoline from an SKS rifle. Finally ended-up soaking the steel parts in gasoline overnight. 

A modern day version of the stuff is called RIG (Rust-Inhibiting-Grease). Even some machine tools coming from the Far East still use the stuff on ground and polished surfaces.

----------

PJs (Dec 17, 2018)

----------


## marksbug

it took me the better part of 3 days to clean a new aircooled VW engine case I got 10 years ago for my car, anodized/alodined magnesium. what a mess that stuff was,I didnt get it all out of some portions of the case,but all the importaint places.their did not seem to be any dibris in it and if there was it would get cought in the oil filter. I tried somany different things to clean it,as I recall gas worked about the best, acetone worked good but evapration so fast it did not seem feaseabe. I thought for sure wd40 would do it....not much at all if any thing. that engine case now has over 80000 miles, going strong at around 3x the oe horsepower. and much more fun.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> it took me the better part of 3 days to clean a new aircooled VW engine case I got 10 years ago for my car, anodized/alodined magnesium. what a mess that stuff was,I didnt get it all out of some portions of the case,but all the importaint places.their did not seem to be any dibris in it and if there was it would get cought in the oil filter. I tried somany different things to clean it,as I recall gas worked about the best, acetone worked good but evapration so fast it did not seem feaseabe. I thought for sure wd40 would do it....not much at all if any thing. that engine case now has over 80000 miles, going strong at around 3x the oe horsepower. and much more fun.



With 3x original horsepower, even a Neon might be fun. Borderline at best.

----------


## marksbug

no it dosent hold up to my old 600+hp street car but fun none to less and much lighter than a neon,and not as ugly.and way more reliable.better mpg too.

----------


## Jon

Fire control crew. U.S. Forest Service. Utah, 1937.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Dec 18, 2018),

PJs (Dec 17, 2018),

Seedtick (Dec 17, 2018)

----------


## Jon

> Painting Ford Chassis at American LaFrance plant in Elmira NY - 1918



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Dec 20, 2018),

Seedtick (Dec 19, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

Check out those high tech jack stands

----------

PJs (Dec 20, 2018)

----------


## PJs

> Check out those high tech jack stands



And the guy under the rolling stand! Peeling in and out of there looks No-Fun to me. There also doesn't appear to be any overhead system to move them to those fine jack stands either...a 6-8 man lift mechanism?  :Stick Out Tongue:  The floor is way to clean for me also and not a tool box in sight. Likely a staged shot.

Amazingly crisp pic though, in what looks to be a real Sepia. Nice find Jon!

----------


## Jon

> Putting howitzer on its carriage at Midvale Steel and Ordnance Co. March, 1918



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Dec 22, 2018),

PJs (Dec 22, 2018),

Seedtick (Dec 21, 2018)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Great picture, love the heavy duty sawhorses.

Ralph

----------

PJs (Dec 22, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



I would like to have 2 of those sitting in my front yard next to my flag pole

----------


## Jon

> I would like to have 2 of those sitting in my front yard next to my flag pole



Texas + cannons + flagpole? I wonder if somewhere on that flagpole might be the legendary Gonzales flag.

----------

PJs (Dec 22, 2018)

----------


## mklotz

Those guns look remarkably similar to the British BL 6inch Mark XIX Gun...

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...J1nXcxwgpqAKM:



I wonder if, that late in the war, the US was manufacturing the guns under license for use by US troops in Europe.

----------

Jon (Dec 21, 2018),

PJs (Dec 22, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

> Texas + cannons + flagpole? I wonder if somewhere on that flagpole might be the legendary Gonzales flag.



If all goes well this coming summer after I have my shop near enough to being a work space. I am planning on erecting a pair of 35 ft flag poles one to have the US flag with the POW MIA flag under it on the other will be the Texas flag and yes the Gonzalas is up for consideration. But before I do this I want to make a functioning cannon commemorative to the 1836 era

----------

PJs (Dec 22, 2018)

----------


## G.Paul

> I would like to have 2 of those sitting in my front yard next to my flag pole



The do gooier democrats that are after gun control would be after you

----------


## Frank S

> The do gooier democrats that are after gun control would be after you



 I could always leave them loaded

----------


## G.Paul

> I could always leave them loaded



Yea you would have to shoot one of them to get respect. Oh I need to tell you there was a foundry not far from me that casted old style barrels like you want I wonder if there are some laying around on he grounds of the property. My friend a pattern maker used to deal with them. I will ask if there are barrels. I am in SW Michigan.

----------

TSiArt (Jan 3, 2019)

----------


## volodar

> Yea you would have to shoot one of them to get respect. Oh I need to tell you there was a foundry not far from me that casted old style barrels like you want I wonder if there are some laying around on he grounds of the property. My friend a pattern maker used to deal with them. I will ask if there are barrels. I am in SW Michigan.



Am I in the right forum?

----------

TSiArt (Jan 3, 2019)

----------


## ranald

nice pic of fire engine watering the desert. The tyres (tires) look substantial for the real deal though. doubt the water storage would last long without a hydrant or dam nearby. thanks Jon for this one as usual.

----------


## Jon

> Harness and carriage shop employees, Hudson, Massachusetts, about 1900



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Dec 30, 2018),

Seedtick (Dec 24, 2018),

suther51 (Dec 25, 2018)

----------


## Frank S

that was 1 steep ramp to the carriage shop

----------


## suther51

This is a picture of the building my boss bought. Built in 1844 as a harness and wagon shop. Just one of many old shops that utilized the second story beyond what we generally are accustomed to currently. The second story ramp in Jon's picture made me think of this. I believe that the wagons were built on the second story of the building my boss bought. After the harness and wagon shop the building became a tavern which prohibition put put of business. After setting empty for awhile the building was turned into the Pinewoods hotell, then a general - grocery store that my dad frequented as a young man. Later used as an antique shop which my boss still uses it for currently after a deep rehab. Found an 1898 dime in the crawl space. The original floor was cobbles over a layer of charcoal which I found interesting as I had read that some of the first improved roads in the eastern us were topped with charcoal. Tried to post an up to date picture but it would not up load. We put the porch back on from the grocery store days.

----------

baja (Dec 30, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 23, 2018),

TSiArt (Jan 3, 2019)

----------


## suther51

By cropping the pic I got the up to date pic to load

----------

Toolmaker51 (Dec 23, 2018),

volodar (Dec 24, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

In town we have at least one remaining 2 story work shop. It's a corner lot on a hill. Instead of constructing ramp, access to upper floor is around the corner [uphill]. Been a mechanics shop forever. It's probably always been, but first maybe truck, tractor, or stationary engine clientele - go in to first floor it's clear. I'm guessing 12" or 14" X braced timbers on narrow [not 24"] centers. The uprights, not exactly studs, are big too; every other one is gusseted to the trusses too.

In comparison, my 16 foot ceiling was supported with 15 8" x 8"s, three rows 15 feet apart. The perimeter walls are brick, where eaves terminated 2" x 8" joists and trusses. Finally got rid of entire roof and ignorant 2":12" pitch with fabricated 4":12"s. 
I saved part of the original ridge beam. It had lapped & bolted joints with pier washers to make up it's 100' length. It gusseted center posts with mitered timbers, like the secondary beams did.

----------

suther51 (Dec 25, 2018),

volodar (Dec 24, 2018)

----------


## suther51

Many of the old dairy barns in my area are built in to banks for walk in access to the loft, around here we call, them bank barns. One barn I worked on had access to 3 stories this way. 3rd floor was a built up ramp of dry laid up stone with a ramp bridge over the 2nd story access door. Guys from NYC bought it and were determined to save it. Has not had cows in it in a long time.
Eric

----------

Toolmaker51 (Dec 23, 2018),

volodar (Dec 24, 2018)

----------


## Jon

Tobacco warehouse. Louisville, Kentucky, circa 1906.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Dec 24, 2018),

PJs (Dec 28, 2018),

volodar (Dec 25, 2018)

----------


## Clockguy

> PJ. Big rainy day here...been Google image looking for maker of the green machine! Found a good pic on Pinterest of the EXACT same machine! I've messaged the person to see if she has any ideas...stay tuned...
> JimAttachment 26640



I have to agree with PJ on the metal and the finish, that metal shavings drawer front and the attaching area on the base could well be a heavy gauge sheet steel which was pressed to make the bends as tight as they appear to be. Chances are, the entire "box" or outer casing of the sharpener is heavy gauge steel and the attaching parts are either some other metal or a thinner steel.

Regarding the paint, I would guess that it could be either an original dark gray or black enamel finish repainted with a green lacquer finish. That would sometimes cause the lacquer finish to react with the milder enamel finish and cause the green to shrink and make the antique type finish you are seeing. These two finishes are not compatible with each other, [at least in the autobody repair field], The old style Alkyd enamel would sometimes never completely dry, even over years of use. That accounts for the "punky" or soft rubbery style of older enamel finishes if they were not kiln dried or dried under heat lamps. Acrylic lacquer, on the other hand, has a very strong chemistry and, after the quick drying solvents dried out of the finish's surface, the resulting coating is very hard and brittle and will chip easier from rock impacts or other impacts than the softer slower drying solvents in Alkyd enamel. 

The other possibility may be that it was restored and painted with an antique appearing "crackle finish" made purposely to appear "crackled" or "split" apart from age.

----------

PJs (Dec 26, 2018)

----------


## Clockguy

> Intentional, and I mean to post drawing referenced. 
> Attachment 26646
> The goofy text is a different impasse of ready understanding. But, a yummy lol: I had intermittent space-bar problem too. Air duster repair job, versus nice pizza crust and crushed peppers.



Well, Toolmaker, I had the same exact problem with my Dell cordless keyboard a few years ago. Crumbs and bits of food and pastries, dust, debris, mixed up and heavily matted with Chocolate Labrador inner fur and outer hair which had "mysteriously" taken haven inside my keyboard. 

Sidenote: Labs shed 24/7/365, as many water dogs do, but this one has a few other quirks. He audibly yawns at 0-dark-30 in the morning, he sneezes no less than a half dozen times after he yawns himself awake, and he grunts [something like an "OOMPH" sound] if I don't pay attention to him when he nudges my elbow or hand for a pat down! 

I audibly yawn [don't all you guys do that?], I have allergies to the AIR in Florida, [only explanation I have for ME sneezing 24/7/365], and, if a pretty lady scratches my back ....... well, we won't go there right now with the sound effects ...... 

Back to the keyboard overhaul, I decided to remove the top of the keyboard case and check things out. I removed a few phillips screws and popped off all of the keys, carefully lifted the top cover off of the keyboard, and then I gasped ....... which in turn sucked in a few Southern Yellow Pine pollen thingies up my nose and I began to sneeze! After the sneezing fit subsided, I took a close look at what was under my keyboard!



I found an almost solid mat of dog hair and remnants of how many meals and snacks I consumed at the computer desk all intertwined together! I wondered why I had so many sticking keys, yeah, now I am thinking that I was lucky there were even a few keys which were NOT still sticking!

Long story short, I carefully lifted the dog hair mat up off my keyboard innards and dropped it into a trash can. Most of the consumables came along with the mat, that's how thick the area below the outside of the keyboard was matted in dog hair in many areas. Like I said I lifted the dog hair mat off ..... from the QWERTY to the NUMBERS block in one piece. From that point it was a matter of lightly blowing compressed air throughout the keyboard area and making sure there was nothing left inside the "control central" to stick or stop or plug up anything else for the near future.

Bottom line, that photo dates back to 04/18/2013 so the cleaning was well worth the time it took to remove the keyboard cover and keys and do a Spring cleaning on the keyboard. One suggestion though, it's a good idea to take a digital of your keyboard prior to the teardown, it makes it substantially easier on the re-assembly when it comes to some of the seldom used keys. [Without looking, do you know where the "standing pipe" key goes? How about the "Pause/Break" key? Just sayin' ...

----------


## marksbug

I like those barrels!! when i was in switzerland this year..or last year dont remember witch time, they had some like that ,but they were campers!!! yes I said campers. for camping in!!!although they were a little longer.

----------


## Jon

> Workers in the main boiler room of Camp Holabird, MD February 9th, 1919



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Dec 30, 2018),

PJs (Dec 26, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 27, 2018)

----------


## marksbug

it would sure take a lot of crabs to fill those boilers....but oh the party that would ensue. :Thumbs Up:

----------


## Frank S

I bet I know what that guy in front used to be before going to work shoveling coal. How do you like me now drill Sgt?

----------


## marksbug

yup that could just be him!!!

----------


## suther51

Those floor boards have quite the belly in them, must be some kind of cavity under them, auto ash removal?
Eric

----------

PJs (Dec 26, 2018)

----------


## Ralphxyz

True Back Braking work, those big boilers consumed a lot of coal all loaded by hand.

Ralph

----------

PJs (Dec 28, 2018)

----------


## Jon

> Two women operating a shell case forming machine at the New Gun Factory in Woolwich, England, 1916



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Dec 30, 2018),

Seedtick (Dec 31, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 29, 2018)

----------


## Toolmaker51

You can see stage of drawing the cartridge case is in? It's no little .50 cal. Lady on left has flat blanks to her right, and is holding a first draw. Another is probably in the dieset, punch visible directly to right of her [back to viewer] hand. The white 'paint' is drawing lube - mostly lard and kerosene. I'd estimate that press is 250-300 ton minimum, judging by the flywheel/ clutch; driven from the overhead, no less! Cannon cases aren't too different than shouldered arms, primarily straight taper, not bottle necked like rifle cartridges. 
I didn't hit web results for cannon brass, yet this depicts process clearly. 

https://www.petersoncartridge.com/ou.../drawing-brass

----------

PJs (Dec 30, 2018)

----------


## Jon

> Hanna mines of Union Pacific Coal Co., Cheyenne, WY - Miners with a Thew electric shovel c.1918



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jan 4, 2019),

PJs (Jan 4, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 3, 2019)

----------


## VinnieL

That photo reminds me of the St. Joe Lead Mines of Southeast Missouri, the "Old Lead Belt." If you are ever South of St. Louis, take the tour of the Bonne Terre, (MO.) Mine. It is well worth your time.

----------

PJs (Jan 4, 2019)

----------


## baja

I like the graffiti on the front of the car.

----------


## Jon

Newsboys. New Haven, Connecticut. 1909.

This was my very first job. You had to be at least 15 to be a bagger at the local grocery store, but paperboys were allowed to be younger. I don't even know if this is still a job.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jan 5, 2019),

oldcaptainrusty (Jan 5, 2019),

PJs (Jan 4, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 4, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

I was going to try the paperboy delivery route thing but I lived 9 miles from town. Which would have meant I would have had to have gotten up at around 4 AM to do my chores around the farm then ride my bike to town load up with papers deliver them before people woke up to eat their breakfast then ride back home and get ready for school in time to catch the school buss since the town I went to school was 8 miles in the other direction of the town where I was going to be delivering papers.. I did actually deliver papers 2 weeks one summer after I had started work at the blacksmith shop. A friend of mine had to go on vacation with his parents so I took care of his route for the 2 weeks he was gone. Since the Blacksmith shop was in the same town it was no big deal to leave home a couple hours earlier than I normally did to get to work by 8 am but I made more working at the blacksmith shop that I did taking care of his route for him.

----------

Beserkleyboy (Jan 5, 2019),

PJs (Jan 4, 2019)

----------


## marksbug

so...are we going to guess witch one of those paper boys is jon? :Rimshot:

----------


## PJs

I mowed lawns first and then supplemented with paper delivery for about a year for our home town rag (Wednesday' only) and the county rag daily. Almost identical routes just more papers to carry. Not bad work but folding and putting rubber bands on was kind of a Pita as I remember and your hands got black with ink...had to use Lava soap to get it off before school. I did get good at flying them to peoples porch from my bike...nice arching curve about 90% of the time, and got to take my dog Smokey (90-100lb Husky/Shepard) for a run...he loved it...me too, except when he'd take off after a cat. Got good tips for it when I collected. Honorable work but grueling early git up.

I guess this could be considered a vintage photo...early 60's when he was older.



 :Hat Tip:  PJ

----------

Beserkleyboy (Jan 5, 2019),

Paul Jones (Jan 7, 2019)

----------


## marksbug

I never did the paper route, but Ive wore out my share of mowers.... and remember cutting lawns for $1.25 , wow have tymes changed!!!

----------


## DIRTYJOHN

My mother is from Butte Mt and we spent a lot of time there as kids visiting Grandpa. The Orphan Girl mining museum is a favorite place and where I once read a miners poem " My sweetheart's a mule in the mine, and I drive's her right on down the line. On the dashboard I sits, and tobbacker I spits, all over my sweethearts behind".

----------

baja (Jan 6, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



Looking at that, I can see where "land Rover" got its design from. I bet it needed a 5 acre paddock to do a u turn also.

----------


## Jon

> A team of woodworkers making repairs to the Cazadero Dam. 1909



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Jan 6, 2019),

ranald (Jan 6, 2019)

----------


## suther51

and got to take my dog Smokey (90-100lb Husky/Shepard) for a run...he loved it...

Man n dog, best work crew ever
Eric

----------

Paul Jones (Jan 7, 2019),

PJs (Jan 6, 2019)

----------


## PJs

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



Great picture Jon...excellent contrast and in focus! They must have been proud working on that by their faces and the tools in hand. Big O' auger bit (long) and what looks to be a curved handle adz.

Thanks,
PJ

----------


## suther51

what looks to be a curved handle adz.

Yup seem to remember that it is called a ship or ships adz. The spike like small end was for sticking into a timber to hold the tool steady for sharpening much like it is seen in the picture.
Eric

----------

Paul Jones (Jan 7, 2019),

PJs (Jan 7, 2019)

----------


## Paul Jones

PJs,

More than 60 years ago I would help my dad with repairs around our house and remember using his carpenter brace and a Stanley hand drill for many drilling repairs. I still have both tools and the old augers in one one my tool boxes but haven't used these in a very long time. Finally in the early sixties I filled in enough of the "Blue Stamp" booklets when I could "buy" a Black & Decker model 7004 1/4" corded electric drill. I thought this small drill was so cool and made all the work so much easier. I fitted the drill with a small drill stand used for portable drills and used the electric drill to build my first metal lathe. I still have the electric drill but it burned out years ago but for nostalgic reasons could not throw it away. Too many good memories. You don't have to have the fanciest tools to do good work.

Regards,
Paul Jones

----------

mklotz (Jan 7, 2019),

PJs (Jan 7, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 7, 2019)

----------


## PJs

Paul,

I remember the Blue Chip Stamps and S&H too. They were a big thing around our house too and had some real value compared to coupons today. I too still have Dads "Egg-Beater" drill an older Brace n' Bit and his first Craftsman 1/4" electric (mid-late 50's), the polished cast aluminum one. He was pretty proud of that and we used it for years (decades). It started giving a little zort thru the case about 30 years ago and took the chuck off it for use on a hand chuck with a broom handle...but couldn't toss it. Thought one day I'd take it apart and restore it with a grounded plug and change the bushing and brushes if I can find them, but never have. Yet still smile every time I see it and remember some of the many, many things we built or repaired with it. 

Absolutely true about not needing fancy or top of the line tools all the time to get things done or even build tools to do the job...Hence HMT and what it represents that way.

 :Hat Tip:  PJ

----------

Paul Jones (Jan 7, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 7, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

The best tools can not make up for poor workmanship. They just make it faster and easier to really mess up.

----------

Paul Jones (Jan 7, 2019),

PJs (Jan 9, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 7, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Fire Extinguisher Dept., American LaFrance factory, Elmira, NY - 1918.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

oldcaptainrusty (Jan 8, 2019),

PJs (Jan 9, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 7, 2019),

that_other_guy (Jan 8, 2019)

----------


## DIRTYJOHN

I still have MY Dad's old Craftsman polished aluminum 1/4 drill. I need to do the same thing. It howls, growls and shocks. But have the same memories.

----------

PJs (Jan 9, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> A view inside the Catskill Aqueduct in Yonkers on May 10, 1912, showing the 11-foot-wide steel pipe before a cement mortar lining was placed (foreground), with the lining (middle ground), and before the wooden forms were removed (behind the men)



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Jan 9, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 9, 2019)

----------


## marksbug

HMT??hit and miss technology?..... we too had that old polished drill....worked awesome and lasted long tyme. nowdays if you buy a corded drill it might lasy 7 months before the bushings are dead or the motor burns up. Imho the best to buy is a good batter operated drill like ryobie or ridged, they seem to work pretty good. but the issue is the batterys in most cases. a lot of sellout companys(B&D& many more) change the battery shapes so you will need to buy a new drill when the crap battery dies,ebay has a great selection of different batterys. I have a 2002 ryobie drill,saw,sawzall,flashlight vacume cleaner set ( neibor threw it all away, it looks like new)that had 5 batterys 2 still hold charge,and 2 battery chargers. well I got on flebay and did some research and found that they still use that battery!!! but even better is it is now avalible in lithium!!!! at 3x the power range!!! for about $30 vs $50 for a **** battery that wont last. but the lithum batterys take a different charger... well apparently when the battery started dieing the neibor bought a new charger.... he got the universal charger!!! it charges all the ryobi batterys!!!! ryobi is possiably the best out there now days.Ive never seen a wore out ryobi. B&D & dewalt are the same company and pure ****. I do have a few D&D 18 volt drills I got on 75% off clearance from after christmass 3 years ago. they are possiably the best B&D I have ever had and they have the lithium batterys. other than that get the cheepest harbor fright stuff and throw it away when it dies.it will usulay last as long as the name brand corded stuff does at 1/2 the price.... speaking of dewalt....I have a real nice 12 or 14"compound miter saw that has a bad bushing for the last 10 years it's been in the shed.( it's about 12 years old) I decided to take it appart and make a bush for it( the bush has been obseleite for over 8 years and size shape was changed due to it was ****) I grabed it up and... the plastic main housing just crumbled in my hands....... way to go dewalt!!!!! well atleast I have a real nice degreed rotating thingys to mount somethen else on...hmm I could make a sun dial!!!!! on another note... the may tag repair man just left the house....he did not work on squat... he just told us that the $700 washer has 1 seeting that washes.and about 12 that dont. and 1 that might...... well at least he seems to be honest. as for maytag.... they need to stop makeing tv adds and make something that works...atleast half way works. yall have a great day!!!

----------

PJs (Jan 9, 2019)

----------


## VinnieL

I bought a 19.2 volt set of Craftsman drill, impact , 2 Nicad Batteries and charger a few years ago. Of course the battery life was limited. So when the same thing was offered in 19.2 Li-Ion I bought it. One battery internal charging circuit went bad. I got on Flea Bay and ordered 2 batteries for like $64.00 from China. Got them and the darned things would not charge. They were completely dead. Wouldn't read anything at all on the voltmeter. I remember reading that if completely dead, smart Li-Ion chargers will not sharge, so I used a DC variable power supply with clip leads to charge the batteries up by tapping the connection to the battery and holding it 15-20 seconds. (This is the manner that LI-Ion batteries charge so not to overheat and explode) and brought the batteries up to about 12 volts. The charger then charged them fine. What ticks me off is that B&D/Stanley who bought out the Craftsman line is not doing any backwards support whatsoever, only selling their new line with a Craftsman name.

----------

PJs (Jan 9, 2019)

----------


## marksbug

yup I has to put a "serface charge" on the batterys before the "smart charger" would work when I charged the old batterys, the new battery was charged. I usualy opt for the extra $2 priced batterys from the usa selers so I get the fast and a little eazer to deal with if there is a issue.I thin the battery was hear the next day. a week after I found a bigger size had just came out...I do nee to get another one so...that will be the next thing. Ive not been able to run down this one yet,I reckon the next size bigger will alsy me a life time before rechgarging. I love the lithium stuff. Im thinken about getten one for my car.

----------


## marksbug

my brother loves his ridged lithium set, he even took his old what ever brand and cut the things up and made the ridged battery fit them.....

----------


## PJs

> I bought a 19.2 volt set of Craftsman drill, impact , 2 Nicad Batteries and charger a few years ago. Of course the battery life was limited. So when the same thing was offered in 19.2 Li-Ion I bought it. One battery internal charging circuit went bad. I got on Flea Bay and ordered 2 batteries for like $64.00 from China. Got them and the darned things would not charge. They were completely dead. Wouldn't read anything at all on the voltmeter. I remember reading that if completely dead, smart Li-Ion chargers will not sharge, so I used a DC variable power supply with clip leads to charge the batteries up by tapping the connection to the battery and holding it 15-20 seconds. (This is the manner that LI-Ion batteries charge so not to overheat and explode) and brought the batteries up to about 12 volts. The charger then charged them fine. What ticks me off is that B&D/Stanley who bought out the Craftsman line is not doing any backwards support whatsoever, only selling their new line with a Craftsman name.



Good Tip on the surface charge for your C3 batteries, Nice save, Vinniel! I did the same thing with some old Ryobi batteries and it works fine...just be careful as you stated. I had great luck with my C3 stuff for 8-9 years now, except for the chuck on the 1/2 Drill was crap and only lasted a few years. Replaced with a Jacobs from Amazon, ($12 higher now than when I bought it but a great chuck). Have had issues with the small capacity Li-ion not lasting long but picked up the 4Ah a year or so ago and it is great. The big thing to me is the PRICES for the buggers..._Outrageous_ from mfg cost perspective...another Printer Ink Tactic! You can get a new drill and battery on sale for what a 4Ah cost.

Been tempted to take one of the dead ones and replace the batteries in it with 16850's as I've seen some videos on YT on how to do it. My experience with Li-ion/LiPo's is fairly high from an electronics standpoint from products and projects I've developed, but found some are good, some are bad and would look for a reputable source/mfgr! Doesn't look difficult and as long as the thermal protector isn't shot should be fine...even those are available on Mouser or Digi-Key.

Agreed about the B&D/Stanley sell off but there will be back stock and replacements for a while from sears parts. I tried to pick up some batteries when Lowes shut down OSH but they were the first to go.

About the old 1/4 Aluminum Craftsman; it's nice to hear that others have the had the same experience and the nostalgia with them. The days of products lasting 50-60 years is long gone I'm afraid! I did some looking on EBay and found similar. I think my dads was either a 315.7901 or a 315.7080 but it's in storage in a box some where...but the chuck is still in my tool box on the broom handle, Hand Chuck!

 :Hat Tip:  PJ

----------

Scotty1 (Jan 12, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> HMT??hit and miss technology?..... we too had that old polished drill....worked awesome and lasted long tyme. nowdays if you buy a corded drill it might lasy 7 months before the bushings are dead or the motor burns up. Imho the best to buy is a good batter operated drill like ryobie or ridged, they seem to work pretty good. but the issue is the batterys in most cases. a lot of sellout companys(B&D& many more) change the battery shapes so you will need to buy a new drill when the crap battery dies,ebay has a great selection of different batterys. I have a 2002 ryobie drill,saw,sawzall,flashlight vacume cleaner set ( neibor threw it all away, it looks like new)that had 5 batterys 2 still hold charge,and 2 battery chargers. well I got on flebay and did some research and found that they still use that battery!!! but even better is it is now avalible in lithium!!!! at 3x the power range!!! for about $30 vs $50 for a **** battery that wont last. but the lithum batterys take a different charger... well apparently when the battery started dieing the neibor bought a new charger.... he got the universal charger!!! it charges all the ryobi batterys!!!! ryobi is possiably the best out there now days.Ive never seen a wore out ryobi. B&D & dewalt are the same company and pure ****. I do have a few D&D 18 volt drills I got on 75% off clearance from after christmass 3 years ago. they are possiably the best B&D I have ever had and they have the lithium batterys. other than that get the cheepest harbor fright stuff and throw it away when it dies.it will usulay last as long as the name brand corded stuff does at 1/2 the price.... speaking of dewalt....I have a real nice 12 or 14"compound miter saw that has a bad bushing for the last 10 years it's been in the shed.( it's about 12 years old) I decided to take it appart and make a bush for it( the bush has been obseleite for over 8 years and size shape was changed due to it was ****) I grabed it up and... the plastic main housing just crumbled in my hands....... way to go dewalt!!!!! well atleast I have a real nice degreed rotating thingys to mount somethen else on...hmm I could make a sun dial!!!!! on another note... the may tag repair man just left the house....he did not work on squat... he just told us that the $700 washer has 1 seeting that washes.and about 12 that dont. and 1 that might...... well at least he seems to be honest. as for maytag.... they need to stop makeing tv adds and make something that works...atleast half way works. yall have a great day!!!



Unlike washers, I think that tools are still "get what you pay for". OK around '90 I bought a Metabo 9.6v drill/driver($600) to assist my Hitachi D10D(japan)($500) as the hitachi took hours to charge. When the metabo (lasted longer than the hitachi) went flat, i'd throw on charger & make a coffee from my flask & before finished coffee the batt was charged =10 min charge. It did me for over 20 years building fences, retaining walls, renos, etc. All that was wrong was the batt so bought an aftermarket one for about $60 = did not charge properly. bought a genuine metabo & presto the $100 was worth it. Chuck went so bought a new one but couldn't remove old one (metabo used to epoxy them in). cut off most of chuck to get access but couldn't budge the oldie. Gave it to mens shed who used oxy & now still use it.
Needing a newie & couldn't afford a Makita with Li Ion so bought a Rockwell. Heap of junk ($100 wasted). If not use for a few days it was like a Ni Cad that hadn't been used for months. Next step looked at Panasonic but way too dear for chinese made so bought Milwaukee Fuel brushless set(chinese made also) of drill/driver + impact driver + grinder & 2 by 4amp batts which cost me about 600 (about the same price as the Panasonic drill/driver). after 4 years had to replace one batt ($115) & since sold my stihl back blower & bought a Milwaukee ($300)blower.They do take a couple of hrs to charge but I can now buy 5, 6, 8, 12 & 18 amp batts if I fall short but the 2 by 4amp is sufficiant for me now but a bigger one is tempting as the blower chews power but I only use it once a week. The 5 amp is coming down in price & now about $135.

Most Li Ion batts, I've read, have a life span of around 3 years whether using or not but I got 4 years from first one & other is still strong.

----------


## ranald

> Paul,
> 
> I remember the Blue Chip Stamps and S&H too. They were a big thing around our house too and had some real value compared to coupons today. I too still have Dads "Egg-Beater" drill an older Brace n' Bit and his first Craftsman 1/4" electric (mid-late 50's), the polished cast aluminum one. He was pretty proud of that and we used it for years (decades). It started giving a little zort thru the case about 30 years ago and took the chuck off it for use on a hand chuck with a broom handle...but couldn't toss it. Thought one day I'd take it apart and restore it with a grounded plug and change the bushing and brushes if I can find them, but never have. Yet still smile every time I see it and remember some of the many, many things we built or repaired with it. 
> 
> Absolutely true about not needing fancy or top of the line tools all the time to get things done or even build tools to do the job...Hence HMT and what it represents that way.
> 
>  PJ



I've done another post here, but suffice it to say, I'm with you on that as I still have B&D corded tools with sleeves/bushes & not bearings from the sixties & early 70's . I still use them ocasionally. I use my Makita corded gear more often and was gobsmacked when I was able to get parts for my D handled 1974(approx) router after a jo blake knocked it of a high shelf. Thing is that many non bearing tools did not survive as folk would push & lean on them hard instead of allowing the drill bit or saw blade or sandpaper do its job & they usually wrecked those bushes when the machine/motor was otherwise still in good order. I still see tradies & diy'ers push their tools in the sake of speed not realizing the reverse is true. Drill bits broken/burnt/ blunted: saw blades burnt/buckled from heat, sand paper worn irregularly, jig saw blades broken or teeth worn off, etc. I had one guy tell me that he kept used sand paper to use as a finer grit when it was worn down. Logic?LOL

----------

PJs (Jan 10, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

I too investigated replacing depleted rechargeable batteries. As PJs notes, the electronics suppliers warehouse many individual cells. Selection boils down to voltage, physical size and quantity. Commercially, the bonding conductor strips are spot welded. I should think deft-handed soldering or conductive [particle silver] adhesives can do nearly as well. I have a pair of bat-handle screwdrivers wanting for such a rescue.
You also might check fleabay, and craigslist for persons offering that service "portable tool battery rebuilding". Googling related phrases generates plenty of hits too.

----------

PJs (Jan 10, 2019)

----------


## suther51

Ranald,
Yup I to have found the Milwaukee disappoints me the least. I use impact 1/4 inch drivers most every day so they are the bench mark for me. Was a little disappointed that the first fuel didn't last longer but still better than the dewalt it replaced. I see dewalt to be a bit more focused on innovation rather than quality, back up innovation with adequate quality and will Usualy result in an industry leader. Wish more compaies were more focused on quality rather than the bottom line and golden parachutes, the bottom line would likely fallow the quality.
Eric

----------


## Toolmaker51

Those I know using cordless like Milwaukee more than other brands. In my frame of mind, that name in red [reputation] means more to the company than any of the other brands, including yellow one. 
I happen to use Porter-Cable; satisfied thus far. Biggest test was 4, 17/32" holes in 5/8" HRS weld table [mount a vise]. I center drilled, pilot drilled, then to size. Used 2 and part of a third 2ah batteries from ~80% charge. Has unique thermal shutdown feature; got too hot to hold! Other work hasn't been so heavy.

Far as how batteries have changed is a little different than the printer ink scheme. Battery performance [volts & ah] has steadily increased. 
I'm positive ink doesn't give a rat's ass about container shape. And when's last time you saw cartridge size increase?

----------

PJs (Jan 10, 2019)

----------


## VinnieL

I have had zero problems with the Craftsman (not the new B&D/Stanley ones) 19.2 set except for the one Li-Ion and the nicads petering out. You have to be careful with those old aluminum-cased electric drills. They can short to the case and if you are on damp ground (e.g. on your knees) they will shock hell out of you. Have been there and done that, and couldn't let go of the darned thing. Finally was able to throw it across the floor.

----------

PJs (Jan 10, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> I have had zero problems with the Craftsman (not the new B&D/Stanley ones) 19.2 set except for the one Li-Ion and the nicads petering out. You have to be careful with those old aluminum-cased electric drills. They can short to the case and if you are on damp ground (e.g. on your knees) they will shock hell out of you. Have been there and done that, and couldn't let go of the darned thing. Finally was able to throw it across the floor.



My old metal cased corded B&D's Had earth cable so no worry there. However My diamond wet cutter Makita underwent many govt reg contstraints & deletions due to many different brands killing idiots that would chase out bricks, concrete & blocks etc with the motor side down & getting water inside: motor up top & no probs. I've had mine since 1986 without incident or stupidity.Such saws were earthed but not designed for unsafe use. There is a rubber motor cover to dispell water splashes but not a full on stream. 
I did have a dry saw cable flick over & severed by a blade without even tripping 2 safety devices : very clean cut. Looked over from above!
cheers
Ranald

----------


## Jimmy5star

[QUOTE=marksbug;125158]HMT??hit and miss technology?..... 

Loved your post! Spot on! Battery life and over-all construction of most power tools has been a thorn for many years. I do like my Ryobi's however. You have a great day too, my friend! And keep up the posts! Great material!

Jim

----------


## PJs

> Those I know using cordless like Milwaukee more than other brands. In my frame of mind, that name in red [reputation] means more to the company than any of the other brands, including yellow one. 
> I happen to use Porter-Cable; satisfied thus far. Biggest test was 4, 17/32" holes in 5/8" HRS weld table [mount a vise]. I center drilled, pilot drilled, then to size. Used 2 and part of a third 2ah batteries from ~80% charge. Has unique thermal shutdown feature; got too hot to hold! Other work hasn't been so heavy.
> 
> *Far as how batteries have changed is a little different than the printer ink scheme. Battery performance [volts & ah] has steadily increased. 
> I'm positive ink doesn't give a rat's ass about container shape. And when's last time you saw cartridge size increase?*



Semi True. Epson has made a few Large cartridge All-in-ones in the last few years and did last much longer for about the same price per but they quit making them again. Probably not making their quota. Basically you can buy a new printer with cartridges for the price of 2 sets of refills. Ideally you toss or salvage your old one and buy a new one on the third round...Really¿ There are aftermarket hang on the outside systems that work semi well with large bottles (CMYK), but don't do it till the warranty is up...otherwise void. I only do Epsons...bad early experiences with other brands. Part of the issue with costs is thanks to the Hazmat designations...and yet the big box stores recycle cartridges...of which I have had some issues with OEM quality QA in the recent past (sold as new) which appear to be recycled cartridges that the printer won't recognize.

Batteries have and are evolving rapidly (almost exponentially) over the last decade or so with prolific increases in potential, charge rates, recovery, size and Safety. I ran across a special awhile back where a guy had made the membranes literally bullet proof. Personally, I can't wait for the Tesla plant to really start cranking them out and get some real economy of scale and Hopefully put a stop to this Printer Ink Scheme. The great thing about Li-ion and LiPo's are the flexibility in shape and capacity. The only reason for the 18650 is we go back 40+ years with the profusion of AA dry cells and there evolution to Li-ion, and they are actually used in massive quantities in E-vehicles where quite a number of them can die and still be part of the larger series/parallel group that still works.

Your bat wing screwdrivers (Milwaukee?) are doable I think...check YT.

I'm thinking there is some Drift from the _Vintage Work Crew Photos_ topic but really glad to see 41 pages of great stuff! 

PJ

----------


## Jon

> Chassis Assembly Dept., American LaFrance Co9,s, Elmira NY - 1918



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...y_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jan 10, 2019),

PJs (Jan 11, 2019),

ranald (Jan 10, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 10, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 10, 2019)

----------


## ranald

The leaf springs are enormous.

----------


## Frank S

Turnbuckle truss bridging under the frame would just about double the strength at the juncture between the cab and the body.

----------


## PJs

Nice one! The workers faces are a bit "Sharpened" but get the drift of their resolve and work status. Surprising how narrow the frames are for firetrucks. That looks to be some sort of shaper/mill at 9 O'Clock?? Can't quite read the name on the upper crossmember but made in USA for sure. He is working on one of the housings on the floor (pump housing?)...surfacing the mating face??

Thanks Jon! Great long lineage automotive shop!

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Nice one! The workers faces are a bit "Sharpened" but get the drift of their resolve and work status. Surprising how narrow the frames are for firetrucks. That looks to be some sort of shaper/mill at 9 O'Clock?? Can't quite read the name on the upper crossmember but made in USA for sure. He is working on one of the housings on the floor (pump housing?)...surfacing the mating face??
> 
> Thanks Jon! Great long lineage automotive make out the name shop!



PJs, that's a planer, maybe a ten foot table. It does look like he's running those bodies. I can't make out name either, seems to have a lot of "n". Probably 'Cincinnati'.

----------

PJs (Jan 12, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> PJs, that's a planer, maybe a ten foot table. It does look like he's running those bodies. I can't make out name either, seems to have a lot of "n". Probably 'Cincinnati'.



First look I thought it was "Baker 91" or Baker 90 or Baker Co but never heard of it. second line ends with"*SA" which i thought was USA. I like the right angle jigs to hold at level or correct angle for surfacing/machining.

----------


## Jon

Steam dredging crew on the Suez Canal. 1860s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Jan 12, 2019),

ranald (Jan 11, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 12, 2019)

----------


## PJs

Monumental and costly (thousands lost to cholera and disease) effort for the day, but in the long run a success. That is a Big Dredge for the day, based on the number of people on it and scaling to that.

Thanks Jon.

----------


## Jon

Machine shop at the Aircraft Engine Research Laboratory. Cleveland, Ohio. 1946.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...p_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (Jan 12, 2019)

----------


## 12bolts

Look at all those Gerstner boxes  :Drooling:

----------

PJs (Jan 13, 2019)

----------


## G.Paul

I wonder what the Gerstner's sold for back then

----------


## PJs

I like the Gerstner's too but it's interesting that old and young alike are doing their part with focus. The older gent on the horizontal mill and the younger on the Milwaukee vertical in wool cuffed pants...all ages with great interest in their work in a crowded space. The only disconcerting thing is the floor sweeper and the look he has...almost like he's watching or talking with the guy at the bench.

I'm curious what that machine is behind the older gent with a younger guy and his arm up on a handle or something. Almost looks like a lathe but has a cross member looking like a differential on the near side...Never seen a machine like this??

Great Pic Jon...may try to enrich this one. Thanks.

----------


## Jon

Railroad track repairers. Nevada, 1800s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Jan 13, 2019)

----------


## PJs

Interesting Watkins Stereograph, likely 1879-1890. Based on the clothing and footwear I would ponder a guess at closer to 1890's. All looking rather sophisticated in their posses. 

Carlton Watkins famous for Yosemite shots also. 

Thanks Jon.

Might be interest to see some Stereoscopes from the 1870's. Beautiful craftsmanship on some.

----------

Jon (Jan 13, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Fergit dem Gerstner's.....Real star of the pic is front row left. Milwaukee Rotary Head Milling Machine, Model D2 [exact same model also show up as Kearney & Trecker]. One lucky curly haired kid is running the single greatest concept in metal working machinery ever. EVER!
That his set-up includes a rotary table say's he's on more than a common milling job. The machine has a rotary spindle arrangement of its own...Of all my iron, she is my one true favorite. 
Why you say? Well here is why. This film introduces the machine, as prepared by the builder, not interpretations of a 4th or 9th owner. In the 80's, regular knee mills were ~$5,000 and 2300 pounds. D2's were long out of production, treasured none the less. IF you had a core [rebuildable] the service was $50,000 and they weigh 5500 pounds, within same approximate footprint. I first was assigned one mid-70's, and right to this instant, a machine more entertaining to operate hasn't occurred. I spent/ waited 25 years trying to locate one fit for purchase; a lot of machinery dealers didn't [even more still don't] really know what they are.

I can't apologize about length of this video, 20 odd minutes. 


but I watched it again this afternoon.
PJs 'guy' with his arm up, I think, is stationed at a Cincinnati horizontal with a Bridgeport head attached. Not sure why that approach taken, shop obviously has resources for a dedicated knee mill, maybe not the floorspace. The 'differential' seems a tooling bench of indexers and dividing heads. More perplexing to me are off to right with a transverse motor well above normal machine envelope. Left of the D2 is a small planer, and a band filer. 
Too bad perspective ruined by such a low angle shot, a lot more would be clear. If there any lathes, this appears a milling department, certainly one would be a hydraulic tracer, or a Kellering machine, esp Pratt & Whitney.

----------

PJs (Jan 14, 2019)

----------


## suther51

https://www.ebay.com/itm/milling-mac...-/283318353120

Is this a d2 equivalent? Quite the mill.
Eric

----------


## Toolmaker51

> https://www.ebay.com/itm/milling-mac...-/283318353120
> 
> Is this a d2 equivalent? Quite the mill.
> Eric



Yes it is. But 2 grand isn't much of a deal; lacking toolholders and 'fun' accessories that make it sing. Before everyone tries snapping one up, these are precision machines, not for hogging rough work. But that said, in the hands of a competent operator, he might one-off a complicated part quicker than a programmer, set-up guy, and less than invested operator can via CNC. Literally a few minutes reviewing a drawing, clamp material and go to work.
And if it sits weeks without work, you don't have large payments for a serious capital machine. I use 2-axis knee mills on occasion, other than 100 IPM rapids and a lever operated quill, they can't do anything beyond the D2.

----------


## suther51

Just found it interesting as it came up with a gogle image search. Im waiting for tbe arival of a steinel sv4. About the biggest machine i can fit in my shop with a greased shoehorn after i cramed in the chineesium 12x32 lathe. It's a woodworking shop but always longed for some metalworking in addition to forge n anvil. There are so many interesting machines out there. Got to put on the blinders now n use what I have more fully. Thanks 
Eric

----------

PJs (Jan 14, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

> The only disconcerting thing is the floor sweeper and the look he has...almost like he's watching or talking with the guy at the bench.



WHY is it disconcerting that a man might be watching or perhaps talking to a guy at the bench?

I do not see it like this at all. The photograph is an instant in time. If you care to look as closely at the broom as you looked at the tool boxes, you clearly see the man is working. Both hands are gripping the broom, the bristles are bent to indicate he is perhaps pulling chips from under the corner of that work bench. One of the first things I noticed is that the floor of that big shop is spotless except for some kind of fluid behind the sweeper.

I do not see anyone chose that he might be talking to. Even if he was, what it the problem with talking to a co-worker or being fascinated by the machines and workers doing that they do? Very possibly something that was not available to him at the time in history.



My $.02

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jan 14, 2019),

volodar (Jan 14, 2019)

----------


## suther51

floor of that big shop is spotless except for some kind of fluid behind the sweeper.

Interesting, have heard of older shops using something called sweeping compound to keep dust down, just my 2 cents also.  :Smile: 
Eric

----------

volodar (Jan 14, 2019)

----------


## PJs

> Fergit dem Gerstner's.....Real star of the pic is front row left. Milwaukee Rotary Head Milling Machine, Model D2 [exact same model also show up as Kearney & Trecker]. One lucky curly haired kid is running the single greatest concept in metal working machinery ever. EVER!
> That his set-up includes a rotary table say's he's on more than a common milling job. The machine has a rotary spindle arrangement of its own...Of all my iron, she is my one true favorite. 
> Why you say? Well here is why. This film introduces the machine, as prepared by the builder, not interpretations of a 4th or 9th owner. In the 80's, regular knee mills were ~$5,000 and 2300 pounds. D2's were long out of production, treasured none the less. IF you had a core [rebuildable] the service was $50,000 and they weigh 5500 pounds, within same approximate footprint. I first was assigned one mid-70's, and right to this instant, a machine more entertaining to operate hasn't occurred. I spent/ waited 25 years trying to locate one fit for purchase; a lot of machinery dealers didn't [even more still don't] really know what they are.
> 
> PJs 'guy' with his arm up, _I think, is stationed at a Cincinnati horizontal with a Bridgeport head attached. Not sure why that approach taken, shop obviously has resources for a dedicated knee mill, maybe not the floorspace. The 'differential' seems a tooling bench of indexers and dividing heads._ More perplexing to me are off to right with a transverse motor well above normal machine envelope. Left of the D2 is a small planer, and a band filer. 
> Too bad perspective ruined by such a low angle shot, a lot more would be clear. If there any lathes, this appears a milling department, certainly one would be a hydraulic tracer, or a Kellering machine, esp Pratt & Whitney.



TM51, I bow to your vast knowledge of these machines.  :Bow:  Thanks for the Vintage Video, I watched the whole thing, drop jawed at a few points for the era. That D2 is remarkable and worthy of its own thread, imho...and the operators must be master machinist's with that many ops going on at once. I loved the drafting references to how it operates but the mechanical hardware inside and the attachments set the bar as you say.

I believe you are right about the (sliding) mill head attachment and can see the rotary table now after further review but confused about the larger RB to the right which looks to be one of the bars for the horizontal set up. Quite the crossover set up for Some Tricky machining.

Thanks TM51!

*HemmJo:* As I said it was the look on his face that was disconcerting to ME. Of all the other workers in the picture, the look on his face is quite different. As for doing his job...it's quite obvious he, *had and is doing his job well* whether or not he "may be" conversing with a co-worker (which is cut out of your cropped picture) is _immaterial_ to me. There was and is No nefarious intent with my statement...just that his look was Different...Perhaps Disconcerting rings the wrong bell for some.

Websters Dictionary...
*Disconcerting:*
adjective

1. disturbing to one's composure or self-possession; upsetting, discomfiting.
2. _confusing, usually in the face of something totally unexpected; perplexing._

 :Hat Tip:  PJ

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jan 14, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Manufacturing M3 tanks at a Chrysler plant near Detroit, Michigan. 1942.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jan 20, 2019),

KustomsbyKent (Jan 14, 2019),

PJs (Jan 14, 2019),

ranald (Jan 15, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 14, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 14, 2019)

----------


## PJs

This picture is one of the reasons why I love Jon's Vintage Work Crew thread so much. Not only does it show 25 skilled professional at their tasks but vintage equipment of extraordinary quality in use. I sometimes clean these up for my personal amusement and creative relief, by using non-destructive methods. This one really struck many chords with me, especially with TM51's additional info on the KT/Milwaukee D2 and vintage film, some of the other comments, and the further I got into the depths of it during cleanup really made it worthwhile for me, in time and as a tool & shop-aholic.

I won't go into all the details but hopefully the clean up and the pictures tell some more of the story for others. There are 13 pics from the primary: One Cleaned up and another with a Number Key, and the rest are the numbers cropped from the original. There we a lot of machines I couldn't identify and cropped them out as individual pics. I was particularly struck with the Tool Room Guy & Gal in No. 11 & 12 and led me to gestimate the size of the shop based on the bench sizes and the typical head size of ~6" diameter, which puts the shop at ~44' x 40' with a wad of machines and people operating them in ~1800sq.ft. and no overhead wiring nor air lines or coolant supplies...all neat and orderly!

_Note: Some of the cropped pics are not as clear because of web resolution and cropping. The original clean up to 24 bit grayscale was 91mb._

First two: clean up and Number Key:

 

11 in Numerical order:

 

 

 

 

 



It's the stories we garner and share, starting with Jon finding these fabulous pics to TM51's D2 story and everyone seeing the _Gerstner's_ and what we draw from our imaginations from the people in them and our past's that bring meaning and substance to what we do, have done, or going to do for ourselves and others.

Thank You Jon!  :Clapping:   :Hat Tip:

----------

baja (Jan 20, 2019),

Jon (Jan 20, 2019),

KustomsbyKent (Jan 14, 2019),

NortonDommi (Jan 18, 2019),

ranald (Jan 15, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 14, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 14, 2019),

volodar (Jan 14, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Fergit dem Gerstner's.....Real star of the pic is front row left. Milwaukee Rotary Head Milling Machine...I first was assigned one mid-70's, and right to this instant, a machine more entertaining to operate hasn't occurred.



esp for PJs; and others viewing the video about the mill. That first day, walking into that shop, interviewed and hired, then led to the milling department. A pair of D2 sat front row center. A big Norwegian man was deeply engaged running one, so I was already watching, Uhh-oh-ing silently. 
The supervisor; "You're gonna run this one"
Me "I've never even _seen_ one of these"!
Super "That's OK, nobody has. We're going to teach you"
Me, relieved and heaving a low "Whew" 
By lunchtime, I was hooked.

With that scene in mind, this is what I still see, watching the Norwegian, even 43 years later. Of 45 seconds, those spanning :13 to :22 most of all.

----------

PJs (Jan 15, 2019),

ranald (Jan 15, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> N. Freeze steam threshing outfit near Sumner, Dawson County, Nebraska. 1903.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jan 17, 2019),

C Tucker (Jan 17, 2019),

NortonDommi (Jan 18, 2019),

PJs (Jan 17, 2019),

ranald (Jan 17, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 17, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Why are there so many people on the Dredgs, where does one see a Gerstner box and what is a Gerstner box, classic case of I would not know one if I saw one.

Ralph

----------


## baja

> Why are there so many people on the Dredgs, where does one see a Gerstner box and what is a Gerstner box, classic case of I would not know one if I saw one.
> 
> Ralph



Looks like a city work crew with no shovels to lean on.

----------


## suther51

Tm51 saw some of the video on the d2,,, wow looking forward to watching all of it. That is some mill. The sv4 steinel came it to my bosses business yesterday and I got a look at it to day. Got me a learnin curve head of me! Too many things that are not as intuitive as I would have expected. The table feed gear change looks to be a real puzzle, top lever seems to be pined with no obvious way to change setting, bit like a horse shoe puzzle. There may be an answer under the paint slobber. This is one source of frustration I am looking forward to. Thanks for the posts.
Eric

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jan 18, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

> Why are there so many people on the Dredgs, where does one see a Gerstner box and what is a Gerstner box, classic case of I would not know one if I saw one.
> 
> Ralph



I'm guessing you are speaking of post #416 the dredge.
Modern dredges may have a crew of only 4 or 5 and maybe 10 to 12 persons for some of the larger ones a smaller dredge may have only 2 or 3 workers. since the newer dredges have so many functions that can be controlled by 1 person at a console another to keep it running and maybe one more helper. on the smaller dredges
these ancient dredges most likely steam powered needed several in the boiler room alone plus every function of the machine was mechanical someone or severaal someone's were required at each of the functions. 
If you ever saw a Gerstner box you would know it they were like the creme la creme of the machinist tool boxes Made of wood expertly crafted

Still made today although I suspect done by modern CNC equipment
and not all that expensive compared to their cost 50 years ago 
https://www.amazon.com/Gerstner-Inte...SIN=B076H7WGWG

----------


## Jon

Coaling a battleship.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Jan 18, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 18, 2019)

----------


## VinnieL

Any idea of the year of that?

----------


## skibo

I would thing in either the early 20's or late teens because most American battle ships were replacing the old lattice framed look out towers with the newer and stronger tripod type. The Arizona was converted several years before being blown up in Pearl Harbor!

----------

PJs (Jan 19, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Tm51 saw some of the video on the d2,,, wow looking forward to watching all of it. That is some mill. The sv4 steinel came it to my bosses business yesterday and I got a look at it to day...
> Eric



Your SV4 is not familiar; I've been around a few mills and machine brands. We'll insist [politely] postings on her virtues and faults. 
Aware nothing is perfect, lots of machines have features ranging from great to WTF. Fact is, reactions vary with different users.

----------


## suther51

> Your SV4 is not familiar; I've been around a few mills and machine brands. We'll insist [politely] postings on her virtues and faults. 
> Aware nothing is perfect, lots of machines have features ranging from great to WTF. Fact is, reactions vary with different users.




What I "know" so far,
Knee mill
Head tilts 45 in the x axis both ways, taper pin for 90 deg indexing
Called a 5x25 w 4 inch quill stroke
About 6 foot tall, will be putting on blocks, hate hunching over to work
3mt collets for quill
1.5 or 2 hp not shure which yet
Built in power feed x axis
Built in coolant
About 1300 lbs
Reputation for rigidity and accuracy 
Made in w Germany perhaps in the 50's 
Came with old brown n sharp vice, 1/2" collet with chuck
Belt drive up the back side for speed changes
Reputation for not enough room under the quill

Eric

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jan 19, 2019)

----------


## Ronj

From looking at the first picture, I think the room is bigger than 44 x 40. The column on the right is about 3 times the height of the man standing near it. The ceiling above the man standing on the left looks to be about 3 times his height. The light above him is at least equal to his height. I count 7 lights along the ceiling above the man on the right and perhaps 1 or more could be blocked from view by the beam above going across the ceiling, plus the space between them is near 2/3 of their length. I think the room is more than 3 times the length of the column wide and near twice as long.

----------


## Jon

French girls assembling Liberty planes. Romorantin, France. July 24, 1918.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jan 22, 2019),

jimfols (Jan 21, 2019),

oldpastit (Jan 27, 2019),

PJs (Jan 21, 2019),

ranald (Jan 21, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 21, 2019)

----------


## PJs

> From looking at the first picture, I think the room is bigger than 44’ x 40’. The column on the right is about 3 times the height of the man standing near it. The ceiling above the man standing on the left looks to be about 3 times his height. The light above him is at least equal to his height. I count 7 lights along the ceiling above the man on the right and perhaps 1 or more could be blocked from view by the beam above going across the ceiling, plus the space between them is near 2/3 of their length. I think the room is more than 3 times the length of the column wide and near twice as long.



As I said I _guestimated_ based on a 6" head size for the horizontal run by drawing a circle around the Tool Room Mans head and arraying them up on the wall below my red line...it took 80 to fill the length 80 x .5' = 40'.

For the desks I "assumed" they were ~28" deep based on the Gerstner boxes on them and the space between about 20" as it looked narrower than the desks (quite cramped to today's standards). Count 11/12 desks x 28" = 308" + (11 x 20"=220") = 528"/12" = 44'-46'

Not discounting your light sizing and counting, one might assume they are either 6' or 8' fixtures (but could be 4')...even at 7 fixtures it would be 42' or 56' plus maybe ~2' between them would give another 12'-14', possibly making the vertical run between 54' & 70' total. It just seemed more plausible to me to work from the floor level to account for the "perspective" of the shot based on the height level of the shot (slightly above the head of the man at the D2 Mill and about equal to the top of the mill it self as there is very little perspective) and density of the machines and workers on it. 

Without the lens and focal length of the camera at shooting information, it becomes a best guess at relative sizes of objects. Photo Forensics is an interesting field with a lot of variables to account for...even the scales used and Hi-zoot coordinate measurement machines have error associated with them especially with perspective shots. 

Either case there are a lot of machines/equipment/people per square foot in perhaps 2k sq/ft.

----------


## PJs

> French girls assembling Liberty planes. Romorantin, France. July 24, 1918.



Interesting pic although a bit fuzzy. I thought all of the DH-4's were built in the states and shipped to France?? The gal on the floor could use some new shoes and found the tail skid assembly an interesting design. And the shot of Kilroy in the back is telling of the shoot.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Here is a link to the DH-4 fully assembled and some history.

And a bit more on National Museum of the Airforce...with great pics of them.

Thanks Jon!

----------


## Jon

> Liberty ships workers gather to watch a launching ceremony, 1940's.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Jan 24, 2019),

ranald (Jan 23, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 24, 2019)

----------


## ranald

Enough folk there to star in Exodus. Thanks for posting.

----------


## skibo

Yes this is a good photo, don't know what it is or was exactly, but it reminds me of the border wall the Left might in favor of!

----------


## Frank S

> Yes this is a good photo, don't know what it is or was exactly, but it reminds me of the border wall the Left might in favor of!



Skibo that is the scaffolding structure that would have been around the bow or is set up for the next liberty ship to be built.

----------


## ranald

Many have very good vantage points...................unless the structure collapsed. then a good look at biting the dust.

----------


## suther51

> Many have very good vantage points...................unless the structure collapsed. then a good look at biting the dust.



Makes me think of a NASCAR race back when. There was a bunch of pipe scafold set up in the infeild full of spectators that tiped over, dont remember the causality count but must gave been bad. 

Scaffold Disaster at the Indy Speedway
Eric

Nope was Indy 500 memory a fickle thing

----------

12bolts (Jan 25, 2019),

volodar (Jan 25, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Installing a generator at the Adams Power Plant Transformer House in Niagara Falls, New York, 1895

----------

PJs (Jan 27, 2019)

----------


## PJs

Note the pit on the right side floor to access the bottom side.

Thanks Jon. I've got a picture somewhere of one of the original Tesla Generators from a trip near Kemptville, Ontario. I'll see if I can find it.

----------

TSiArt (Feb 5, 2019)

----------


## marksbug

just remember without those guys and all the brains behind these en devours we wouldn't be where we are now. now if we could just figure out how to live with each other.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jan 28, 2019)

----------


## PJs

I found the picture of one of the original Tesla Generators, my guess is turn of the century...1900-01. Thought I had some pics of the data plate and placard but weren't there. This picture was taken in Kemptville, Ontario in 08', on the Rideau Canal which is a World Heritage Site now. Merrickville is not too far from Kemptville and went there as well on that trip. Quite an undertaking to keep the US from invading.

This generator was in the back of a museum across the canal from town. I spotted the museum while walking the locks and watching them work for local traffic. Got some pics of tools and equipment used back in the mid 1800's and an interesting dog driven butter churn I think...CRStuff.

Hemingway, the generator lit my candle and spent some time going over it's construction...in detail.



 :Hat Tip: 
PJ

----------

Alan Purdy (Feb 5, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 28, 2019),

TSiArt (Feb 5, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> U.S. Life-Saving Station crew on the beach with lifeboats and equipment, Hull, Mass.
> 
> Crew members of the U.S. Life-Saving Service Station at Hull, Massachusetts are shown in this informal portrait. The coast of the south shore from Point Allerton to Scituate was a very dangerous area for ships trying to enter Boston Harbor and there were many shipwrecks. This station was established in 1889. There are two surfboats and breeches buoy equipment on three carts. The three-masted schooner in the background is being towed into the Nantasket Roads past Boston Light on Little Brewster Island.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Feb 3, 2019),

PJs (Jan 30, 2019),

ranald (Jan 30, 2019),

Seedtick (Jan 30, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 30, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Assembly line production of Liberty trucks at Diamond T Motor Car Co. (Chicago) Apr. 30, 1918



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_truck

----------

Alan Purdy (Feb 5, 2019),

Seedtick (Feb 4, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Why are they in uniform?

Ralph

----------


## PJs

> Why are they in uniform?
> 
> Ralph



Designed by the army corp of engineers and probably built by them as well. Although these guys hands aren't that dirty...probably staff picture day. No markings on their uniforms that I could see either...what regimen?

----------


## ranald

> Why are they in uniform?
> 
> Ralph



cause they are mountin the motor, Ralph. Cheers

----------


## Ralphxyz

Liberty Truck, the Wikipedia article does not mention the truck being built by the military.

I hope this is a misprint "The engine consumed standard gasoline at a rate of about 3.5 to 7 gallons per mile depending on terrain, speed and driving ability. The truck has a maximum fuel capacity of around 22 gallons which includes the primary dash-mounted fuel tank and a larger reserve tank mounted under the right-hand side of the seat box. " That would give them a range of 3 to 7 miles at 3.5 to 7 gallons per mile!!

Ralph

----------


## volodar

Ad agency was tasked with showing a realistic assembly line environment at the Diamond T Motor Car Co?

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Why are they in uniform?
> 
> Ralph



Incredible patriotism? Bigger question. Since when dropping an engine [sans transmission BTW] into an open chassis needs 5 men with 1, maybe 2 and a hoist are sufficient elsewhere. Typical government excess. 
I was ignorant. Campaign hats, canvas field gaiters, and wearing rings were recommended safety gear, yet not steel-toed boots?

Cool details in pic though. Bolt on cylinders, flat head valve arrangement, external coolant plumbing, with shaft-driven pump and more. Notice lubricant pots on suspension spring posts? Now that's engineering for long term and severe use! Frank S, you recall any such and more recent enhancements?

----------

PJs (Feb 5, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Ralphxyz's Wikipedia link brought me a laugh. 
A quantity of Liberty Trucks went for use by a particular European Air Force. Wishing to skirt non politically correct stereotypes, that effort was not fully successful. Such configurations were found impossible generating enough speed and lift for take-off...

----------


## Ralphxyz

Imagine the size of the pistons "425 cubic-inch L-head inline four cylinder engine that put out 52 horsepower,"

I remember getting 425 cu in from a V8 was a major accomplishment in the sixties.

Ralph

----------


## hemmjo

Yes, the pistons where larger than they are in today's engines, but those old engines also had very LONG stroke, which allowed them to make lots of torque at low RPM. 

Also remember when you double the bore, keeping the same stroke, you quadruple the displacement. So a small increase in bore along with a longer stroke, gives the large displacement.

----------

PJs (Feb 5, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Yes, the pistons where larger than they are in today's engines, but those old engines also had very LONG stroke, which allowed them to make lots of torque at low RPM. 
> 
> Also remember when you double the bore, keeping the same stroke, you quadruple the displacement. So a small increase in bore along with a longer stroke, gives the large displacement.



Yes, long stroke = loads of torque. And a hourglass instead of a tachometer.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Probably it's a 'Support the troops' style publicity photo.

----------

PJs (Feb 5, 2019)

----------


## TSiArt

So that truck had dual ignition? 
Distributor and Magneto? 
I'm 41 year old and I never held a magneto. But my dream is to own a turn of century vehicle, repair/re built and drive it.

----------


## Frank S

There were something like 15 different auto and truck manufactures who built the liberty trucks Diamond T made 638 of them 
the engines were a collaborative effort between 5 companies 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_truck

----------


## marksbug

most people dont think of modern 4 cylinders being very big, and most are not. mecury marine(mercrusier) took a biog block ford 460 and turned it into a 4 cylinder for some of their boat motors. they made a aluminum block, and a forged steel crank shaft and the pistons and rods and cylinder head form a 460 engine, I domnt remember what stroke it had if it was 460's stroke or more, but those motors had lotsa power& torque for a 4cylinder in a boat.and light to with the all aluminum engine block.I think they made it up into the 90's possiably into the 2000's.Ive worked on quite a few. as I recall they called it the "470" possiably for 4 cylinder and 70 cu per cylinder...

----------

Toolmaker51 (Feb 5, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> So that truck had dual ignition? 
> Distributor and Magneto? 
> I'm 41 year old and I never held a magneto. But my dream is to own a turn of century vehicle, repair/re built and drive it.



Lol, nobody's held a magneto...
Not very long anyway!

----------

PJs (Feb 7, 2019),

TSiArt (Feb 6, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Working inside a printing press at RR Donnelley and Sons, Chicago, Illinois, 1942



Largest size image available:

----------

PJs (Feb 7, 2019),

ranald (Feb 6, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Working inside a printing press while it is working?

Ralph

----------


## Jon

> Working inside a printing press while it is working?



We've seen worse:

----------

Toolmaker51 (Feb 6, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> We've seen worse:



Sure have! One is a normal maintenance crew; others mere subjects of volume over welfare environment.

----------


## PJs

Are they making hard hats?  :Stick Out Tongue:  And note the peg the guy on the right is sitting on!

----------

Toolmaker51 (Feb 7, 2019)

----------


## marksbug

atleast they are not also in the furnace.....

----------


## ranald

Puts a new meaning to "duck down"!

----------


## Jon

Coaling a steamer in the Virgin Islands, c.1898.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Feb 8, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> atleast they are not also in the furnace.....



It's nearby; here we use 'normal' motivational posters. 
And casual Fridays.
Lol.

----------


## Frank S

> Coaling a steamer in the Virgin Islands, c.1898.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



Now that was an equal opportunity employer just as many women if not more than men and probably everyone receiving the exact same pay.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Feb 9, 2019)

----------


## PJs

Reminds me of Tennessee Ernie Ford and 16 tons...not sure it was equal opportunity in the Virgin Island in 1898.




Thanks Jon, Great Pic!

----------

ranald (Feb 8, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 9, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Coal is heavy! I'm a little surprised to see it ported on peoples' heads. I see they have those little padded hats, like Motorcycle lifting on head guy.

I also found an interesting head carrying device called a _tumpline_.

----------

PJs (Feb 8, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 9, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

> Coal is heavy! I'm a little surprised to see it ported on peoples' heads.



I often work with a mission in the Dominican Republic. I once watched 4 men unloading a full size, flat-bed, semi trailer of 100 pound cement bags. One man on the truck, sliding the bags off the trailer, onto 3 men's heads, one man/one bag. They then carried the bags, on their head, into the storage building. The 3 men were spaced out so there was always one guy walking up to the truck for his next bag, as another was walking away. Knowing how they work down there, if they would have had to carry the bags much further, I am guessing they would have had 4 men on the ground, so the timing would be right. The men on the ground were covered in cement dust, from head to toe. I saw this in the morning on the way to a work site. In the afternoon as we passed them on the way home, they were finishing the job. I can only hope they took a break during the heat of the day.

Just like seeing this coal loading photo, I do not complain about any of the work I need to do when I get back home.

----------

PJs (Feb 8, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 9, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> I often work with a mission in the Dominican Republic. I once watched 4 men unloading a full size, flat-bed, semi trailer of 100 pound cement bags. One man on the truck, sliding the bags off the trailer, onto 3 men's heads, one man/one bag. They then carried the bags, on their head, into the storage building. The 3 men were spaced out so there was always one guy walking up to the truck for his next bag, as another was walking away. Knowing how they work down there, if they would have had to carry the bags much further, I am guessing they would have had 4 men on the ground, so the timing would be right. The men on the ground were covered in cement dust, from head to toe. I saw this in the morning on the way to a work site. In the afternoon as we passed them on the way home, they were finishing the job. I can only hope they took a break during the heat of the day.
> 
> Just like seeing this coal loading photo, I do not complain about any of the work I need to do when I get back home.



And they wont have med ins to reduce pain/operate of crushed discs. I have but one and it gives me curry but forget an op: statistics are getting better re success.

----------


## ranald

Haven't heard that for decades. Lots of the ol' songs were about labour (mostly love) "Workin for the Man" and getting out of poverty. I don't get am reception in the home but in my car I listen to a Brisbane station that plays 60's to 80's songs. Love old stuff & ones like like Johnny horton 60's, Beatles, stones, Animals eagles b.boys etc. A local fm station plays 60's through to current ones like Brett Denham. Not really into most Rapp or Swampy stuff.
Thanks for the time warp, PJ.

----------

PJs (Feb 8, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 9, 2019)

----------


## threesixesinarow

Some more heavy music, to go with post #180

----------

PJs (Feb 9, 2019),

ranald (Feb 9, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 9, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Poetry and musical chorals might be the final bastion of imperial measure. I'd challenge any writer, even Bob Dylan, Woody Guthrie, or Ian Anderson the lyricization of "16 Tons" into "load 14514.9558 kilograms and and whadda ya get"...

----------

PJs (Feb 10, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Some more heavy music, to go with post #180



I just had to investigate origin; link opened to "_Historic 1912 recording of rowing song of a boat's crew on the Yangtze River in Sichuan, China_" The beginning had me envisioning Middle East.

----------

Jon (Feb 9, 2019),

PJs (Feb 9, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

> Poetry and musical chorals might be the final bastion of imperial measure. I'd challenge any writer, even Bob Dylan, Woody Guthrie, or Ian Anderson the lyricization of "16 Tons" into "load 14514.9558 kilograms and and whadda ya get"...



I would challenge any of the testosterone deficient singers of today in any genera of what laughingly tries to pass for music to try and sing any of Tennessee Earnie's songs Think of how John Henry or Big John would sound sung by Bieber

----------

PJs (Feb 9, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 9, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I would challenge any of the testosterone deficient singers of today in any genera of what laughingly tries to pass for music to try and sing any of Tennessee Earnie's songs Think of how John Henry or Big John would sound sung by Bieber



That jes makes me headbone hurt.
Lol "testosterone deficient" isn't the only problem, a crop of "estrogen laden" performers isn't relieving it. 
While I can't provide a direct quote, Noel Gallagher remarks the crop main fail is delivering material sufficient listeners can identify with in a positive way. Frank S's offer of Sinatra "My Way" isn't one of mine, but the message is undeniable. 
Somehow, our HMT family fits right in with that. Could there be a broader strata? I am not surprised.

----------

PJs (Feb 10, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> Poetry and musical chorals might be the final bastion of imperial measure. I'd challenge any writer, even Bob Dylan, Woody Guthrie, or Ian Anderson the lyricization of "16 Tons" into "load 14514.9558 kilograms and and whadda ya get"...



HA HA Ha but if they were challenged to do so?

----------


## Jon

> Liberty ships under construction in a Baltimore shipyard during WWII, 1942.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg

----------

PJs (Feb 11, 2019),

Seedtick (Feb 11, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 10, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Happens all the time, new favorite picture. Not fickle, the examples just continue to improve and prove my soapbox chant.

----------


## Frank S

> Happens all the time, new favorite picture. Not fickle, the examples just continue to improve and prove my soapbox chant.



I haven't really picked a favorite yet but I have ear marked several that I want to print off in a 3x5 format that's 3 foot by 5 foot to frame and put on my walls in the shop office if it ever gets built.

----------

PJs (Feb 11, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> HA HA Ha but if they were challenged to do so?



Too long. Won't fit 3:30 radio format...

----------


## PJs

> I haven't really picked a favorite yet but I have ear marked several that I want to print off in a 3x5 format that's 3 foot by 5 foot to frame and put on my walls in the shop office if it ever gets built.



I agree about making a poster of it, but it would be a real push to get that size Frank. It's actually almost square at 8bits per channel RGB, but at 300ppi it's only ~5"x5". Might crop a bit of the sky but would take from the perspective, imho. Perhaps a giclee would take up some of the slack and get you up to 2x2' in Gray scale at 32bits/channel, maybe¿ Reminds me of Coney Island or The Pike in Long Beach for some reason..or ants roaming among the giants.

I love most of these for various reasons and would be hard pressed to pick a top 5 let alone top 10, and only 76 saved from these posts that Jon has so graciously shared with us.

Thanks for another great one Jon.  :Clapping:

----------


## Frank S

> I agree about making a poster of it, but it would be a real push to get that size Frank. It's actually almost square at 8bits per channel RGB, but at 300ppi it's only ~5"x5". Might crop a bit of the sky but would take from the perspective, imho. Perhaps a giclee would take up some of the slack and get you up to 2x2' in Gray scale at 32bits/channel, maybe¿ Reminds me of Coney Island or The Pike in Long Beach for some reason..or ants roaming among the giants.
> 
> I love most of these for various reasons and would be hard pressed to pick a top 5 let alone top 10, and only 76 saved from these posts that Jon has so graciously shared with us.
> 
> Thanks for another great one Jon.



 Your right PJs I have the photo saved at 8065 x 8338 or 5.89 MB which would print out at around 40"by 36" @ 200 DPI 
My plotter can print up to 1200 DPI and I have 16 gb ram and 36 gb virtual 
so size and power is there won't come out at 3 ft by 5 ft but will be able to get 36" by 40"
I once scanned in an 8 by 10 glossy at 5400 DPI setting on my scanner then printed it out approximately 42 inches wide by 52 inches long on my old plotter which was not as good as the one I have now that photo turned out just fine It would have been better if I would have had photo paper instead of just butcher paper but it was OK for what we needed it for.
This plotter I can print to vinyl or even nylon cloth for banners but I haven't tried it yet

----------

PJs (Feb 12, 2019)

----------


## Jon

What DPI do you need for a decent print photograph?

----------


## Frank S

around 150 would be about the minimum I would want I've tried printing email pictures without first trying to enhance them they are usually around 75 DPI 
A trick I have used several times is to up size in Microsoft office to 30% larger at a time then save then auto correct and repeat several times until the saved size is 400% larger than original then print them off on my smaller printer on photo paper they come out more or less fair there is only so much enlargement that can be done but a good scanner can do wonders to a wallet size photo if you want a 4x6 print No where near what a true photo enlarger can do at the lab though and even those depend on the exposure setting the photo was taken on and the clarity and lighting.
There was studio in Kuwait that printed wrap adds for the sides of the buses they could take a digital photo of a painting about 3500 by 2400 and blow it up to fit the side of the bus which would look like it had been painted on by Rembrandt himself they were that good

----------


## Jon

My pipe dream is to have these types of photos somehow painted or similarly imaged onto a garage wall.

Like when you go to some museums, and they have lifesize black-and-white photos on the wall. How are they doing that?

----------


## Frank S

> My pipe dream is to have these types of photos somehow painted or similarly imaged onto a garage wall.
> 
> Like when you go to some museums, and they have lifesize black-and-white photos on the wall. How are they doing that?



Well you probably couldn't do it this way LOL


But this way could work if you did it is reasonable sized sections at a time
https://www.diynetwork.com/how-to/ma...ansfer-pumpkin

----------


## Frank S

but this will explain the process a little better
https://www.instructables.com/id/Ima...nsfer-to-Wood/

----------

PJs (Feb 12, 2019)

----------


## PJs

> What DPI do you need for a decent print photograph?



Technically Jon, digital picture files are considered "Print Ready" at 300PPI (Pixels/in). Printers use DPI as it represents Dots/in, as in most inkjets use a droplet (Dot) form of some type. Laserjets are another story as they use a coronal process on a roller and typically considered to be about 600ppi even in color.

Like Frank says you can get a decent-ish print at 200ppi but the eye will notice the aberrations. 300ppi is at the edge of what most people can discern in clarity and has been the standard for a long time. Up-scaling anymore than 10-15% will blow it to smithereens and a waste of ink, imho.

I did a 4/0, 4' x 8' vinyl poster a while back for a client that was "Print Ready" but it was required to be 1200PPI in order to scale it to that size in good resolution to the eye. It had a couple of pictures and a Vector Logo I did for him prior but the pictures had to be scanned a 1200ppi, cleaned up, adjusted, then inserted in order to be good visually at distance. Another thing that helps the printing processes is to Flatten the artwork and usually required for print houses. In this case I had a lot of drop shadows to highlight the logo, and some text as well as some other layer overlay effects...without flattening most printers misinterpret those opacities and colors giving a very bad effect, printed. To give a clue the restoration I did of my GGGPa tintype (~1.75x2.25) I scanned it as a 1600ppi TIFF file, just to get it big enough to print a 300ppi 4x6.

Imho, the only way to get these to a decent quality wall picture would be to save and print them as 300PPI and send the print to a Scan House (lots out there) and let them scan it at say 2400-3600ppi. These scan houses can do the whole process, much like Chip and Joan did on their HGTV series with the split rolling frame Before shots, but on a TV budget they could afford ~$1000per. I'm sure they were shot with a quality DLSR Or DLST and sent out for production. My hit is those were probably 150dpi prints on canvas or vinyl. Also keeping in mind when you scan to these resolutions, all the aberrations are enhanced as well as Interpolated above the original.

I had the good fortune to get to work with a local printing wizard who taught me a lot in the beginning. He help a lot, particularly in developing some of the larger giclee's I've done. Those were done in AI (Adobe Illustrator) but had certain picture elements in some that had to be gotten to at least 300ppi to print...my largest was a 30" x 48" on canvas and I gave him the file at 1200ppi to run through their commercial grade High End large format HP plotter.

Also keep in mind that Jpgs are RGB and most inkjets run a CMYK cartridge setup and the printer takes up the difference which is considerable. Not so much on Sepia or B/W (which I use TIFF format) but it does make a big difference on rendered color perception.

Hope that helps and didn't go completely off the TMI rails.

PJ

And for the next DIY X/Y plotter project...just keep in mind the DPI/PPI still needs to be correct.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Feb 12, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Thanks! Didn't know there was that much to it. Got the idea from looking at all of those old Mesta factory photographs. Would love to look at a wall of my garage, and see those old machines as if they were in the distance on the same floor. Although, admittedly, this is perhaps not my single most important project right now.

----------

PJs (Feb 12, 2019)

----------


## PJs

> Thanks! Didn't know there was that much to it. Got the idea from looking at all of those old Mesta factory photographs. Would love to look at a wall of my garage, and see those old machines as if they were in the distance on the same floor. Although, admittedly, this is perhaps not my single most important project right now.



That is a great idea! I was thinking a collage of some type but a perspective from floor level...awesome.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Feb 12, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Not sure where I got the idea. I think I saw it first at a museum or airport. Like on a big wall at a passenger terminal, or behind a museum display or something. And you know how there are lifesize sepia or black-and-white photographs with people in them, maybe a timeline or historical data or explanation superimposed on it. I'm sure we've all seen this concept. Those big honkin' Mesta photographs are just dying to be reborn like that.

If that isn't really doable, I will settle for a photograph-topped cappuccino made with a pic of a Heavy Press.

----------

PJs (Feb 12, 2019)

----------


## PJs

LOL on the heavy press cap!  :Clapping:  

Got to thinking, as I've seen custom wall paper from pics. Just a quick search and this popped up. https://www.megaprint.com/wallpaper.php

Here is a link to the pricing...don't know the size of your wall. https://www.megaprint.com/prices-sizes-prints.php

This is for a 8' x 12' smooth wallpaper. Not bad $$ for an all out man cave, but I would have to chat with them about resolution.



Another possibility would be a Halftone printing of some type where the resolution isn't as high. Old school but still around.

PJ

P.S. let me know about the PM I sent, and I'd be happy to prep the artwork for you.

----------


## ranald

> Not sure where I got the idea. I think I saw it first at a museum or airport. Like on a big wall at a passenger terminal, or behind a museum display or something. And you know how there are lifesize sepia or black-and-white photographs with people in them, maybe a timeline or historical data or explanation superimposed on it. I'm sure we've all seen this concept. Those big honkin' Mesta photographs are just dying to be reborn like that.
> 
> If that isn't really doable, I will settle for a photograph-topped cappuccino made with a pic of a Heavy Press.



Hey Jon, your cuppa could be of a top dog with saw in hand & when you reach the dregs the under-dog would appear.

Did you locate my lost post or should I simply redo it? (not that you have nothing to do-ha ha). I'm a one fingered typist & often posts pop up that weren't there when I started typing!LOL.

----------


## Jon

That does look interesting, and the price is not unreasonable, but I can't do even close to that sq ft price. I do see some of those fancy "spray a photograph on a wall" machines around; I might just need to wait a few years until that stuff reaches the DIY world.

ranald - yes, redo please.

----------

ranald (Feb 12, 2019)

----------


## PJs

> That does look interesting, and the price is not unreasonable, but I can't do even close to that sq ft price. I do see some of those fancy "spray a photograph on a wall" machines around; *I might just need to wait a few years until that stuff reaches the DIY world.*
> 
> ranald - yes, redo please.



Was thinking someone here might want the DIY challenge of a 2 axis with a 11x17 printer head...might take awhile but doable. Looks like something you might see on instructables.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Looking at the pictures on that site, they're using a large format HP inkjet very similar the one we have (a Z6200); it's max color resolution is 2400 x 1200 "optimized dpi"; it makes pretty good looking images from standard files. (300ppi or lower.) The printer driver does a lot of pretty smart interpolation to achieve that "optimized dpi" bit. 

Their FAQ gives you an idea of what they expect to be working with. 

Some day I'm going to get around to printing out a few of my photos on it, then I'll be able to definitively tell.

----------

PJs (Feb 13, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Crib trestle on the Columbia and Nehalem Valley Railroad. The Columbia and Nehalem Valley Railroad was a logging railroad for the Peninsular Lumber Company of Portland in the area around Columbia City, Oregon.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Feb 15, 2019),

hansgoudzwaard (Feb 14, 2019),

PJs (Feb 17, 2019),

ranald (Feb 14, 2019),

Seedtick (Feb 14, 2019),

tenlug (Feb 15, 2019),

volodar (Feb 19, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

An interlocked cribbing trestle. Now that is 1 super strong structure, but it could have been made much stronger and more stable had they taken the time to notch a few of the courses of the logs . A few lateral diagonal stay logs would have insured the structure cold not shift sideways.

----------

hansgoudzwaard (Feb 14, 2019),

PJs (Feb 17, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

What looks like timber and pipe isn't. Longitudinal members are timber also. I've never seen or heard of cribbing in structural sense, just as individual blocking. I wonder at diagonals too; but friction and a mess of parallel members [probably lagged] could work.

----------


## Frank S

> What looks like timber and pipe isn't. Longitudinal members are timber also. I've never seen or heard of cribbing in structural sense, just as individual blocking. I wonder at diagonals too; but friction and a mess of parallel members [probably lagged] could work.



Actually when you look at the interlocking way that log cabins are constructed the walls are nothing more than a stacked cribing structure to hold up the roof .
While many midwestern and western log cabins were made exclusively with full round logs with rounded out notches to hold them together. A popular method in the eastern forests was to split and plane much larger diameter trees to a thickness of 4 to 8 inches by what ever the diameter was then cut tapered mortise style tabs and notches some cabins were made with trees as much as 24 inches in diameter the taper of the trees were compensated for by alternating them end for end to maintain a reasonably level stacking course, the top plates would be hand planned to level. and locked in place with wooden tenons. the stacked courses could have as much as 5 or 6 inches gap between them.
If we look closely at the trestle we can see the top course and the sleepers are pinned with diagonal rods

----------

hansgoudzwaard (Feb 14, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 14, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

There are random diagonal pins through out the structure Rows 3, 6 and 12 are not just the top row.

Ralph

----------

PJs (Feb 17, 2019)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

I talked to our communications director about her experience with it this morning, she said 300DPI looked quite good even when printed very large. Now, 'very large' in this case was like 2½ x 3 and 3 x 4 ft-sized photos for awards and retirement ceremonies, not wall-paper sized..

----------

PJs (Feb 17, 2019)

----------


## neilbourjaily

Methinks I do see some notching just left of bottom center before the structure goes to span the chasm.

----------


## skibo

I have heard of this type of Trestle building in area's in the early years of logging in the Northwest, they would build a quick temporary trestle to bridge a short steep ravine. This way the timber that was used for the trestle could be salvaged and sent to the mill, as it was still good for lumber!

----------


## Ronj

I dont think the pioneers and other generations that built log cabins to live in and raise families left gaps of five to six inches between the logs knowing that they would have to be filled with mud or something else and mud to seal them from the winter weather. Barns for livestock were built with gaps between the logs but not cabins. I saw a couple of log cabins many years ago that were over a hundred years old at the time. All the gaps between the logs were filled with mud and dirt.

----------


## ranald

all in all it is very impressive. I cant see where the coves are but with all that weight I guess they are squashed into the coves.

If it fell over I wouldn't like to pick up all those sticks.

----------


## Frank S

> I dont think the pioneers and other generations that built log cabins to live in and raise families left gaps of five to six inches between the logs knowing that they would have to be filled with mud or something else and mud to seal them from the winter weather. Barns for livestock were built with gaps between the logs but not cabins. I saw a couple of log cabins many years ago that were over a hundred years old at the time. All the gaps between the logs were filled with mud and dirt.



 You should visit Virginia and other parts of the Eastern mountains forest areas some time there are still lots of old log cabins dating 150 years and more ago that have 5 and 6 inch gaps between the structure logs those gaps are filled in with the slabbed off sides cob and sticks but are in no way tied to the structure

----------


## Jon

There is an old log cabin from the mining days, right around 150 years old, a couple of canyons over from me. It's a cool little restaurant now. We like to joke about how the log cabin is so old that it's "more chinking than log". It's a good analogy, and it's so much chinking now that it almost doesn't even look like a log cabin.

----------

PJs (Feb 17, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 15, 2019),

volodar (Feb 19, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

All of the people just walking around, are they going to work?

Ralph

----------


## Ronj

I’m very close to Virginia, about 30 minutes away. You must be talking about somebody’s old barn.

----------


## Jon

> Plowing by steam in South Dakota c.1907



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (Feb 18, 2019)

----------


## suther51

Love the lantern hanging there, got to keep track of the gauges. 
Eric

----------


## Jon

> Ninth Avenue El, Manhattan, at 110th Street - "laying the mats", November 20, 1940



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

TSiArt (Feb 20, 2019),

volodar (Feb 28, 2019)

----------


## 12bolts

"extra mildness, extra coolness" Don't get to see so many of that type of advertising anymore

----------


## hemmjo

In regard to the steam tractor photo. What fuel did they use? Coal or wood? I enlarged the full size image and I think I see a coal shovel, but only a small bin that MIGHT contain coal. Or perhaps there is some firewood behind the right side drive wheel. 

Just curious, sure is an impressive machine.

----------


## Papa Bill

This reply is to the post on page 50 of the shipyard in 1942...


Sad to say, but that was an American shipyard in the 40's...
Today that same photo would be taken in China or South Korea...

----------

HobieDave (Mar 7, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Two young boys working at Cross Mountain Mine, Knoxville Iron Co., in the vicinity of Coal Creek, Tennessee. December 1910.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Feb 24, 2019),

ranald (Feb 22, 2019),

Seedtick (Feb 22, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> This reply is to the post on page 50 of the shipyard in 1942...
> 
> 
> Sad to say, but that was an American shipyard in the 40's...
> Today that same photo would be taken in China or South Korea...



We all hear you! With more than 2400 mega trawlers/ships just to empty the oceans, China has a large stake in shipping.Its pretty bad when a large US company buys Chinese made ships to import Chinese goods & return empty ready for the next shipment.

Not just the US, but Britain, Germany, Holland, Japan etc etc have caved into the home costs of creating ships but we need to start rejuvinating our economies before a total monopoly of everything has us all to mercy. (Exceptions seem to be war/patrol vessels but what electronic components are M.in C.?)

It is wonderful that some British companies have started to build tools again: bit dearer but better in long term for macro economy.

----------


## hemmjo

Saw a segment on TV the other night about how China has a HUGE lead in the electric car market. If we are not careful........ scary to think about..

----------


## Jon

USS Susquehanna machine shop. 1917-1919. Largest image size available.

----------

Alan Purdy (Feb 27, 2019),

baja (Feb 27, 2019),

Clockguy (Feb 27, 2019),

jackhoying (Feb 26, 2019),

Seedtick (Feb 26, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 26, 2019),

UncleBob (Mar 2, 2019)

----------


## neilbourjaily

Navy manuals are the best. I have many down loaded. They're thorough, clear, and accessible. They're available on the internet with just a little search effort.

----------

jackhoying (Feb 26, 2019)

----------


## Clockguy

Interestingly, there were 3 different ships commissioned using the name "Susquehanna", the first being a side wheeled steam frigate which was commissioned in late 1850. The second ship was actually built in Hamburg, Germany and commissioned the "SS Rhein". Interesting story about how she became an American ship and recommissioned as the "Susquehanna" in 1917. And the third ship was built as a "patapsco class" gasoline tanker which served during WWII and up into 1947, when she was dropped from the Naval registry. She didn't get the name "Susquehanna" until 1950, when she was reacquired by the Navy and named "USNS Susquehanna T-AOG-5" and served for the next 9 years before being scrapped. There was actually a 4th "Susquehanna", a Falcon class transport tanker, the "Falcon Princess" which was launched in 1972 and later leased by the Navy and renamed.

Here are some Wikipedia links which are of some interest for those familiar with that region of the US from which the name "Susquehanna" originated:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Susquehanna

Susquehanna (ID 3016)

Miscellaneous Photo Index

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Susquehanna_(ID-3016)

(I suspect that the ship from which this photo was taken was the one depicted in the last link.)

My personal interest in all of this was the fact that I was born on the Susquehanna, .... not the ship, but the river named for the Native American family of people who inhabited the river back when taxes and government were much less intrusive into the lives of the populace. There is a bridge, listed in the Guiness Book of World Records, named the Rockville Bridge, North on the river near the present day capitol of PA where I set foot on this planet one dark and stormy night in 1943. 1.7 miles up Roberts Valley is an old farm house and outbuildings, which is owned by the Harrisburg City Postal Employees Union, where they built their Rod and Gun Club. It had a wonderful shooting range with 25, 50, and 100 yard rifle ranges, a trap shooting range, and multiple picnic pavilions, a large play area for the kids, and a ball diamond for the "BIg kids" [Dads] to play on. It was the PERFECT place for a tiny person to be born and raised. I remember more things from my early childhood than I do from age 5 on to my entry into senior high school! I roamed the mountains almost as soon as I could walk, my parents took my younger brother and me on long walks up trails which were also deer trails and hunting trails. My life long love for the outdoors and all things in Nature were nurtured in those mountains. Much of what I still do revolves around knowledge I gained from my Dad as a child in those mountains.

So, there is a special place in my memories for the "Susquehanna" and this simply tripped many good thoughts of my childhood and early years. We had to move from that mountain "Eden" down to the reality of 2 young kids starting school and needing to be where they did not have to walk almost 2 miles to catch a city bus into town and then transfer to another bus to get out to the school where I was enrolled in 1949. Such is life but it is also so good to take a trip back once in awhile and remember what used to be and dream .......

Edit: I failed to mention WHY that old railroad bridge was in the Guiness book, it is the longest stone arch bridge in the world, spanning over a mile of the Susquehanna River at the almost non-existent little town of Rockville, PA. 

We lived on this "farm" when my dad, a life long employee of the post office as a rural mail carrier, took the "manager's" job for the 110 or so acres of mountain land that the PO owned for their R&G club. We lived rent free, in exchange for my dad doing any general maintenance around the property and mowing about 17 acres of grass around the house, shooting range, and picnic area plus a large area for parking for picnics and shooting contests. At that age, I could walk for an afternoon and explore and learn without leaving "our" farm. It was more than a little kid could take in until years after he left and joined "civilization" aka, the Rat Race .....

----------

volodar (Feb 28, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

of course the Susquehanna River was not named after a indigenous tribe of Indians that lived in the river basin
but after a tribe (Susquehanna) that was moved into the river basin by our government to sell their native lands.

Ralph

----------

volodar (Feb 28, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Wachusett Dam, laying the last stone. Clinton, Massachusetts. Jun. 24, 1905.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 5, 2019),

Seedtick (Feb 27, 2019),

volodar (Feb 28, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> One of the rotors of the HMHS Britannic suspended over a turbine casing, Belfast, 1913



Largest image size available:

----------

baja (Mar 2, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 5, 2019),

Seedtick (Mar 1, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

No mechanics pictured, I am sure all of the guys in suit and tie and hat are not mechanics.

Ralph

----------


## Toolmaker51

*One of the rotors of the HMHS Britannic suspended over a turbine casing, Belfast, 1913* 
How on earth do pour such an immense casting, and inspect for porosity? For that matter, how much lead time was consumed building the pattern?
And however large, with turbine going in, line boring is already done...

----------


## Unkle Fuzzy

No patterns used. Like ship's propellers the mould is built out of bricks of moulding sand and then hand shaped by carving away anything that doesn't look like a turbine housing. For really big low count or one of a kind castings this is basically the only way to do it. The pour gets really interesting. Multiple ladles of metal poured one behind the other before the previous pour cools to much for a good bond. For real high strength sand moulds clay binders may be too weak and Portland cement or sodium silicate as a binder, with the result that the mould has to be jackhammered away from the casting.

----------

baja (Mar 2, 2019),

Beserkleyboy (Mar 1, 2019),

neilbourjaily (Mar 5, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 1, 2019),

volodar (Mar 6, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> No mechanics pictured, I am sure all of the guys in suit and tie and hat are not mechanics.
> 
> Ralph



Good point, that one isn't very work crew-ish. I need to make a good spot to put these excellent machine photos that don't make the minimum size requirement for our large machine photo thread: High-quality black-and-white photographs of large old machines and tools

Anyway, here's a very orthodox work crew photo.




> Workers at the Mann Axe Factory, Reedsville, PA, c. 1885.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Alan Purdy (Mar 6, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 5, 2019),

Seedtick (Mar 6, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> No patterns used. Like ship's propellers the mould is built out of bricks of moulding sand and then hand shaped by carving away anything that doesn't look like a turbine housing. For really big low count or one of a kind castings this is basically the only way to do it. The pour gets really interesting. Multiple ladles of metal poured one behind the other before the previous pour cools to much for a good bond. For real high strength sand moulds clay binders may be too weak and Portland cement or sodium silicate as a binder, with the result that the mould has to be jackhammered away from the casting.



Mmmmmm, jackhammering shoulder level or overhead....sounds lovely.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Anyway, here's a very orthodox work crew photo.
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



Axe factory, I buy. Side job for Broadway actors, instead of waiting tables? Dunno
But WTH is this? Bullet-proof chamber pot? R&D 'Fat Man' prototype? An early Reuben Garrett Lucius Goldberg [#1] device with contributing designers? No, wait he'd only be 2 years old by then...

R2D2's great-great-great grandfather? Notice casters hadn't been invented [or available] yet.

----------

Alan Purdy (Mar 6, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 5, 2019)

----------


## Radioman

> Axe factory, I buy. Side job for Broadway actors, instead of waiting tables? Dunno
> But WTH is this? Bullet-proof chamber pot? R&D 'Fat Man' prototype? An early Reuben Garrett Lucius Goldberg [#1] device with contributing designers? No, wait he'd only be 2 years old by then...
> Attachment 28598
> R2D2's great-great-great grandfather? Notice casters hadn't been invented [or available] yet.



Looks like a pot belly stove to me. What he’s doing with it is another thing.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Mar 5, 2019)

----------


## 12bolts

I agree.
I wonder what happened to #19 & #20?

----------


## stillldoinit

Looks like a small potbelly wood stove with a cast iron Dutch oven sitting on top.

----------


## volodar

#1 is demonstrating/explaining something to hat modeling audience. Right hand holds shaft of axe-grindstone/belt pulley assembly. Far end of shaft sits on block for height adjustment, pot belly stove doing temp duty as sawhorse. Can´t discern what his left hand is holding.

----------


## Jon

> State fire crew learning features of new John Deere fire fighting equipment at Fall Creek Falls State Park, Tennessee, 1952.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Mar 8, 2019),

Seedtick (Mar 7, 2019)

----------


## capngeo

> From her attire a pair of micro Daisy Dukes cut offs that would not have gotten past censors in even an R rated movie and a sports bra and tennis shoes



And not a single picture of Susan?

----------

volodar (Mar 8, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

> And not a single picture of Susan?



You are referring to post #6 near the start of this thread, and no I was not in a habit of using 35 mm film to take pictures of young women back then. Over the years interviewed a lot of potential employees but I must say that young Susan to this day is probably the one the wife and I remember the most W had many people show up looking for a job fully geared up in all of the PPE you could imagine who could barely even strike an arc and forget handing them a torch or plasma to cut their own coupons they would were out a weeks supply of grinding disks to clean them up enough to fit together. 
My welding tests were pretty much standard straight out of the book but for the fabricator/ fitter tests mine were a little intense so much so that it could take half a day of more to complete them. But I let them know up front the quality of work we required and that we paid accordingly usually a higher starting wage than many shops paid their seasoned employees Like the line Powers Booth as lt Razack in Star-ship troupers said "I expect the best and I give the best" was my philosophy

----------


## Frank S

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg



Now I direct your attention to the hiemflager reticulation joint that connects the vertical articular beams to the flagging soil discombobulation mentisitzer Note how the articular beams a are used to push the hiemflager reticulation joint forward by exerting force through the retinieal ball from behind. the auto stabilizer lifts the articular beams by means of hydraulic compaction inside of of the moving pressure chamber

----------

Toolmaker51 (Mar 10, 2019)

----------


## capngeo

> You are referring to post #6 near the start of this thread, and no I was not in a habit of using 35 mm film to take pictures of young women back then. Over the years interviewed a lot of potential employees but I must say that young Susan to this day is probably the one the wife and I remember the most W had many people show up looking for a job fully geared up in all of the PPE you could imagine who could barely even strike an arc and forget handing them a torch or plasma to cut their own coupons they would were out a weeks supply of grinding disks to clean them up enough to fit together. 
> My welding tests were pretty much standard straight out of the book but for the fabricator/ fitter tests mine were a little intense so much so that it could take half a day of more to complete them. But I let them know up front the quality of work we required and that we paid accordingly usually a higher starting wage than many shops paid their seasoned employees Like the line Powers Booth as lt Razack in Star-ship troupers said "I expect the best and I give the best" was my philosophy



At least you know I read the whole thread! :Beer:

----------


## Frank S

> At least you know I read the whole thread!



If you read all 56 pages of this thread you spent a lot of time in the rabbit hole.
there have been a lot of interesting posts in this thread both informative as well as humorous

----------


## Jon

> Torpedo tube installation during the construction of USS Grayback (SSG-574), 18 November 1955



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (Mar 9, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 10, 2019)

----------


## Clockguy

> of course the Susquehanna River was not named after a indigenous tribe of Indians that lived in the river basin
> but after a tribe (Susquehanna) that was moved into the river basin by our government to sell their native lands.
> 
> Ralph



It most certainly was, but I guess I missed your point in this discussion. I was merely reliving a few moments of my childhood, not trying to disparage a group of original "Native Americans".

----------


## Jon

> Workers making chewing gum at the D.L. Clark Company in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, 1948.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (Mar 11, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> Axe factory, I buy. Side job for Broadway actors, instead of waiting tables? Dunno
> But WTH is this? Bullet-proof chamber pot? R&D 'Fat Man' prototype? An early Reuben Garrett Lucius Goldberg [#1] device with contributing designers? No, wait he'd only be 2 years old by then...
> Attachment 28598
> R2D2's great-great-great grandfather? Notice casters hadn't been invented [or available] yet.



I have made a couple of real mistakes with this block making machine. As a youngen I'd help dad mix concrete for the back yard. Each time some mix was left over we would make concrete blocks. 5 decades on i needed a spot to store the machine (big mistake number 1= I stored it in a shed I had converted from a badly leaking concrete water tank that i converted into a shed complete with wooden hinged door, glass side panel for loght to see the jo blakes & an awning over the doorway: the humidity in ten years has almost destroyed it). Mistake number2 = I decided to restore it by chelating (10%molasses & bal water). I didn't have a container big enough so dug a large hole and lined with viscreen (very durable plastic sheet used under concrete slabs etc). I had help to lower the heavy inem into its temperory home. Alas we had a very big wet and suffered a small land slip of shale & clay which almost buried it. 


When I went to dig it out there was a dangerous resident in the black plastic so i left well alone until my son visited and we dug & lifted it out. Rather than land fill I have advertised it for restoration or as a garden ornament that a Pandora or other vine can crawl over.



If I had the time & space I could make many parts (using rusted ones as templates) from quality hardwood but that isn't the case here. I'm culling and storage is a big issue.

----------


## 12bolts

Thats an interestingly shaped counterweight on the flow control from the hopper.

----------


## Jon

A nice work crew photo from the Mesta Machine Company. I believe this is one of their smaller forging presses. 1950s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Mar 14, 2019),

ranald (Mar 13, 2019),

Seedtick (Mar 13, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 13, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Production of 155-mm artillery shells at the American “Pullman-Standard” plant in Hammond, Indiana. 1943-44.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

ranald (Mar 14, 2019),

Seedtick (Mar 14, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 13, 2019)

----------


## ranald

seems the only one not wearing glasses is the guy with the torch.

----------


## Frank S

That's not a torch it is a pint gun in the spray booth

----------

jackhoying (Mar 14, 2019),

ranald (Mar 14, 2019)

----------


## ranald

One would think that of all there he would need a mask/ppe with such a small booth. guy on left must be subjected to the fumes etc.

----------


## hemmjo

> seems the only one not wearing glasses is the guy with the torch.



That appears to be a war time photo. Rather than safety glasses, I am guessing those glasses are just so they can see. My dad's vision was too bad to be in the military. That along, with being an experienced machinist kept him at home, building airplanes. Most of the men that age were either in the military or had some physical reason not to be. 

Just my guess..

----------

EnginePaul (Mar 15, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Coal miners riding to work. 1900s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...k_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Mar 16, 2019),

Miloslav (Mar 16, 2019),

Paul Jones (Mar 16, 2019),

PowerMk (Apr 7, 2019),

ranald (Mar 15, 2019),

Seedtick (Mar 15, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 15, 2019)

----------


## ranald

poor buggers look like squished sardines. No O.H.&S for those guys 7 lucky to live a reasonable lifetime= no longevity. Some times we have come a very long way but none of them would have wanted to loose his job to a machine. Now we place so much more value on life in the wotkplace at least.

----------


## Frank S

packed in like sheep going to slaughter

----------


## Toolmaker51

I wonder, did a labor-rate accountant design that coach?

----------


## ranald

> I wonder, did a labor-rate accountant design that coach?



too hard to CRUNCH the numbers.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> too hard to CRUNCH the numbers.



......well, it's only the first stop...it'll get so full, disembarking will be initiated with bars of soap.

----------


## marksbug

looks like she was born a coal miners daughter...

----------


## Toolmaker51

> looks like she was born *a coal miners daughter*...



Operative term "a". Now, if she could identify which, cuz they all look alike...

----------


## Jon

French quarry. 1930s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

PowerMk (Apr 7, 2019),

ranald (Mar 23, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 7, 2019),

Seedtick (Mar 21, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 21, 2019),

Tule (Mar 22, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Coopers making casks for whale oil. New Bedford Wharves, late 1800s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 7, 2019),

Seedtick (Mar 22, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> The offices of the Central Social Institution of Prague, Czechoslovakia with the largest vertical letter file in the world. Consisting of cabinets arranged from floor to ceiling tiers covering over 4000 square feet containing over 3000 drawers 10 feet long. It has electric operated elevator desks which rise, fall and move left or right at the push of a button. to stop just before drawer desired. The drawers also open and close electronically. Thus work which formerly taxed 400 workers is now done by 20 with a minimum of effort.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

KustomsbyKent (Mar 26, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 7, 2019),

Seedtick (Mar 23, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 23, 2019)

----------


## mklotz

"Consisting of cabinets arranged from floor to ceiling tiers covering over 4000 square feet containing over 3000 drawers 10 feet long."

And to think, all that would probably fit on a single 64 gigabyte flash drive you could carry in your shirt pocket.

----------

philipUsesWood&Brass (Mar 23, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 7, 2019)

----------


## philipUsesWood&Brass

mklotz, the Europeans have LONG been using "Vertical Space" to meet their Needs, I was in Germany in 1971, and visited a Jewelers Supply Store. Think Diamonds, Emeralds, Saphires, Rubies, etc.

From the BASEBOARD to approx 6 feet, drawers, 1 inch tall 8-10 inches wide maybe 18 inches in length . . . . On a wall 15 - 20 FEET Long.

Request your needed Gem and they would walk to an UNMARKED DRAWER, and bring you your specified Gem in several sizes, and maybe Cut Shapes as well. 
My Friend (a German Citizen) ran the Language Barrior for me, Not that they did not speak ENGLISH, but out of Respect for their trade. We Spent $500.00 (combined) and they treated us like we were Old Time Customers, Tea & Biscuits don't you know!

BTW, to Enter that room we were buzzed in after Video/Voice reply to their "door Bell", 12 foot hall Video Monitors both ends! Double Electro-Mechanical Latches both doors. Foyer with Door Bell. ground floor. First their elevator opens, enter and (of Course a Video Monitor) we are taken to the Second floor where the Hall way had a small meeting room thenthose DOORS!

All in All, a very exciting memory, and an Understanding of German Enginneering. 

philip, from the Great Pacific NorthWET, todays Weather a Light Washington Mist, It HIT Oregon & Missed Washington.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 7, 2019)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

You're right on the money, Marv! Using the standard that 1 page of text ~ 1kilobyte, and 1800 pages/lineal foot from here https://www.ilmcorp.com/tools-and-re...ges-or-images/ it comes out to ~54Gb.

Heck you would have room left over for a decent photo or music library! :-)

----------


## ranald

> "Consisting of cabinets arranged from floor to ceiling tiers covering over 4000 square feet containing over 3000 drawers 10 feet long."
> 
> And to think, all that would probably fit on a single 64 gigabyte flash drive you could carry in your shirt pocket.



Hi Marv, your comment on tech changes made me think of the Brisbane City computer room which was about the same size. The small Dec 10 mainframe was used for file movements within the staffing area (about 15,000) during the 70's & 80's. 

I would deliver the software cards for the readers of the proper mainframe housed in a giant room with its own back up aircon to manage the proper temp & it was in a fully sealed room that had a 7 second warnibg to staff if it was about to inject poisonous gasses to protect the mainframe from possoble fire. I would see reels spinning everywhere. card readers were clicking away but not heard through the bullit proof glass unless one was invited into the room. Although it was the third biggest municipality in the world at the time & way smaller than our state & federal govts, it had the biggest computer in the southern hemi. About 300000 rate payers, stores, libraries, water supply , electricity generation until 1976, works, parks etc etc etc.

All that could be done on a much small piece of kit now, but I am privaliged to have been one of a few who were allowed onto the floor let alone into "the room".
The mind boggles re NASA etc

----------


## Ralphxyz

So what years was this wall used?

Ralph

----------


## ranald

The manager looks chuffed while others look somewhat glad to have a break for the pose.
This post refers to #580.

----------


## Jon

The Reel Cove Coal Mine near Whitwell showing the workers' train. Marion County, Tennessee. 1952.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Alan Purdy (Mar 28, 2019),

ranald (Mar 26, 2019),

Seedtick (Mar 27, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 27, 2019),

Tule (Mar 28, 2019)

----------


## ranald

More sardines or Sheep as Frank would say.
Cool train , looks like a kids one in a theme park but dustier, deadlier, & more riveting.

----------


## Frank S

Yep the smaller more compact those transport conveyances could be made the stronger and believably more survivable in the event of a cave in.
Notice all of them seem to be smiling, I would presume this may be because they have survived another work shift.

----------


## Jon

Doukhobor women pulling a plow on the Canadian prairies.

I still don't understand the whole people-doing-animal-work thing. Is it just a weird anomaly? A normal step that developing societies go through? Weird response to famine or war or recent disasters of some sort? Like did the plow animals die of a disease a month ago, and the people need to pick up the yoke until more animals can be purchased after next harvest? Or, is this a plow intentionally made for use by people? Does this happen anywhere today? I don't get it.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Mar 31, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 7, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

Jon this may give some insight to the why of the women pulling plows. Fore warning a bit of a read 
The Doukhobors' Place in Canadian History

----------

baja (Mar 31, 2019),

Clockguy (Apr 4, 2019),

Jon (Mar 31, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 7, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 31, 2019),

volodar (Mar 31, 2019)

----------


## mklotz

> Doukhobor women pulling a plow on the Canadian prairies.
> I still don't understand the whole people-doing-animal-work thing. Is it just a weird anomaly?



Two quotes from the Wikipedia article on the Doukhobors...

The largest groupthe Community Doukhoborscontinued to be loyal to their spiritual leader Peter V. Verigin

Verigin convinced his followers to free their "brethren" (animals) and pull their wagons and plows themselves.

More proof that religious fundamentalism can short circuit neural pathways.

----------

Jon (Apr 1, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 7, 2019),

that_other_guy (Apr 18, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 31, 2019),

TSiArt (Apr 1, 2019)

----------


## Doth

Female welder they are beautiful!

----------


## Jon

> Two quotes from the Wikipedia article on the Doukhobors...
> 
> The largest group—the Community Doukhobors—continued to be loyal to their spiritual leader Peter V. Verigin
> 
> Verigin convinced his followers to free their "brethren" (animals) and pull their wagons and plows themselves.
> 
> More proof that religious fundamentalism can short circuit neural pathways.



Wow, that is quite a read. Doukhobors looked like a combination of sect, cult, ultra radical communists, and terrorists over the years. Verigin (and his kid) really were pieces of work. Verigin essentially broke them of the "dominion of man over animals" concept, which is fairly uniform across Judeo-Christianity; that's actually impressive! Historically, I think it's been easier to convince people to give their lives for an unjust cause that it is to convince them to unhook a healthy plow animal, let it walk away, and then pull the plow themselves.

And look at this other pic. All women pulling too. The one job that's not intended for an animal is handled by the guy at the back.



Men went to work on the railroads! Here's a snippet from the original text that the wiki article is referencing: https://books.google.com/books?id=Qb...ilroad&f=false. The book glosses over the insane cult bit, and just casts this as a nostalgic and proud memory of "strong Doukhobor women". Seems like they're using a revisionist feminist angle to conceal the fact that these women were being victimized. Literally, they were being used as animals.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doukhobors

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 7, 2019)

----------


## Altair

Workers at the aluminium factory in Stongfjorden, Sweden, 1908.

----------

baja (Apr 3, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 7, 2019),

Seedtick (Apr 2, 2019),

that_other_guy (Apr 18, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

> Doukhobor women pulling a plow on the Canadian prairies.
> 
> I still don't understand the whole people-doing-animal-work thing. Is it just a weird anomaly? A normal step that developing societies go through? Weird response to famine or war or recent disasters of some sort? Like did the plow animals die of a disease a month ago, and the people need to pick up the yoke until more animals can be purchased after next harvest? Or, is this a plow intentionally made for use by people? Does this happen anywhere today? I don't get it.



My dad had a very rough life, the same I am sure as MANY kids and people in general. The family had no means to own or even feed an animal. I heard stories about him pulling the plow for their garden. I have also seen men in the Caribbean pulling carts, etc, like you would expect a horse or tractor to pull.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 7, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Shepherds on stilts; from a marshy region in Landes, France.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Apr 4, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 7, 2019),

Seedtick (Apr 3, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 4, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

I would think those thin stilts would be sinking into the marsh mud. French marshes must be different that the marshes we have around here.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 7, 2019)

----------


## volodar

I think this was a method for ¨overseeing¨ and counting the herd. More convenient than lying on the sometimes wet ground (half the caps were shaped like umbrellas), then counting all legs then dividing by four.

----------


## Jon

I wondered about that too, and thought it was a hoax or some such, but the use of stilts in this same region is documented repeatedly in photos and art.



This reminds me of the hi-lift jack base accessory:



This caught my eye too; not sure if one or the other is a baseplate, or a rock, or an artifact of photography:

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 7, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 4, 2019),

volodar (Apr 3, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

The stilts must have worked but I cannot picture how and what is it with those fur coats?

Ralph

----------


## Jon

> I think this was a method for ¨overseeing¨ and counting the herd. More convenient than lying on the sometimes wet ground (half the caps were shaped like umbrellas), then counting all legs then dividing by four.



Good call, now we're getting somewhere. Wiki on history of stiltwalking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stilts...f_stiltwalking

Unsourced quote, but it's reasonable:




> "The shepherds of the Landes region of southern France used to watch their flocks while standing on stilts to extend their field of vision, while townspeople often used them to traverse the soggy ground in their everyday activities."

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 7, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 4, 2019),

volodar (Apr 3, 2019)

----------


## volodar

Ralph, Perhaps it was the cool seasons originally. Then, fashion it eventually became. Just idle speculation.

----------


## Clockguy

> Jon this may give some insight to the why of the women pulling plows. Fore warning a bit of a read 
> The Doukhobors' Place in Canadian History



Author Edit: [Sorry for lagging behind in the replies to the posts, I have been taking advantage of the late March and early April weather here on the FL Panhandle. Sunny, 70's, time to get the kayak ready for a paddle!]

I had no clue to the settlement of that great Northern country above us! I wonder how many peoples in other parts of the world have been significantly stifled while trying to maintain their sense of identity and ethnic background? Thank you Frank S for opening another door to my never ending education of all which surrounds me on this planet!

As I grow older, I become more and more curious about the world as we know it today and how events in each of the countries played a major part in shaping and building one nation after another throughout our history? We all know the history of our birth country or that in which we have spent the most of our lives, but how many of us have any clue to how other countries, which pop out of the historical shadows occasionally to reap a few passing headlines of unrest or rebellion, have come to be as they are today? Case in point, and we have seen these events in many of our own lifetimes, the teardown of world Communism and the breakup of the Balkan countries into one level of another of independent nations. In school, back in the 50's, I knew the names and locations of most of the Balkan countries and Russian satellite countries as a matter of course. Presently I probably could not recite more than a handful of ****-istan nations which have risen from the results of the '89 demolition of the "Wall" and the renaming of all those little nations and Russian holdings which had been given their rights to govern themselves as they pleased.

Now I am finding out how very little I know about our Canadian neighbors to the north of us and how their exploration and settlement of their country parallelled ours and also how they differed from our own development. We had minorities which have grown from a handful of Displaced African slaves and Chinese laborers on the railroads and in our mines and on our highways and certain religious groups as the Mormons, Amish, Mennonites, and so many others to mark our country's history with changes the likes of which have shaped and altered our country's structure forever. And also, as a scar on our historical endeavors to expand and settle every square inch of land within our domain, the many and varied cultures of Native Americans, who we literally stole land from and herded the survivors of so many conflicts and battles for more and more land into smaller enclaves of poor unworkable land until they literally have been placed in human bondage within unmarked territorial "walls" we call "reservations" and left to subsist as best they could. 

I should imagine the every country of worth, on this thing we call our Earth, has similar "skeletons" which are not talked about nor have any role in the positive growth of those people who have strived to build a place for everyone to live in relative peace and harmony with each other. Nobody wants to discuss the dirty hands and the blisters and the sore backs and also those ethnic groups who got in the way of history as we know it today. Those groups have become the homely little red haired kid who hides in the closet whenever company comes over to visit. We all know he is in there but nobody wants to drag him out and show him to the visitors.

----------

Frank S (Apr 4, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 4, 2019),

volodar (Apr 9, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

You are correct clockguy; there are so many lost forgotten of subverted aspects of history that the only way to learn of these events is through diligent research often the only way is to actually live in other countries around the world and study the perspective of history from that countries view. from the 1500's through the 1860's there was a forced migration of some 12 million ethnic groups from the African continent. many whole villages and regions were rounded up and brought to the Americas and Europe less than half a million were actually brought to the USA while most were sent to south and central America a large number were sent to Europe.
However one tid-bit that is often overlooked is some whole regions of peoples willingly chose migration as a way to possibly have a better life for their families and friends, some of these paid for their passage by helping to convince others to migrate or enter into indentured servitude Some who came to the Americas and Europe were never slaves but were given holdings in several countries with slaves of their own. 
Additionally not every person or the Caucasian race who came from Europe arrived as free persons but had paid for their passages by entering into servitude themselves. Many Irish English Scottish Dutch French Spanish Italian and Germans did this as well. There were some who lived out their entire lives being indentured slaves.
Many of the large Plantation holders treated their slaves far better that free persons living in many cities had lives of their own. the Holders built Schools and places of worship and even paid their slaves a small wage often very small but paid none the less. It was far better for them to do this than to have to be the single provider of all of their clothing food and other needs. 
But what you read most in the history books is how poorly the peoples were treated along with the beatings murdering and torture. 
You would have only to ask the question of to what advantage would it have been for the slave owner to constantly beat and starve the very people who were providing them with a means of revenue?
That is not to say that it didn't happen of course it did some owners were quite simply cruel also stupid as well. In general they often found themselves ostracized among other owners and more often than not lost their holdings to those who did not do these things as a general practice.
Yes there are many black marks in the pages of history but these marks are not the sole property of the USA. 
the pushing of native peoples of the North American continent to so called reservations was indeed a huge black mark in History. But believe it or not there was a benevolent thought to the process. The US Government sought to end the senseless slaughter of the indigent peoples by those who were greedy for more lands. The tsalagi (trail of tears) saw many deaths more than the Government had anticipated when the 5 civilized tribes were relocated to the Oklahoma territory.
The slaughter of whole herds of millions upon millions of buffalo led to so many native people's starving who depended on the migrating heards causing many uprisings and wars The government was fed erroneous information about these uprisings which led to it sending in carvery unit after carvery unit to to attempt in quell these conflicts. This empowered too many rouge blood thirsty Generals to do their bidding as they saw fit. Fortunately some like Custer met with justice being served to them.
I take real issue when folks always say the US Government was always at fault and I equally take real issue whit the speak of the US Government always being in the right. 
2 wrongs never make a right and 2 rights often equal a wrong in my opinion. 
But that is just how I view things possibly because I have some native American ancestry as well as possibly European Ancestry who may have arrived as indentured, many of us have persons in our ancestry who were at least temporarily indentured to pay for their passage.

----------

baja (Apr 5, 2019),

Beserkleyboy (Apr 4, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 7, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 4, 2019),

volodar (Apr 10, 2019)

----------


## Jon

WWII shell factory workers.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

hansgoudzwaard (Apr 4, 2019),

ranald (Apr 4, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 7, 2019),

Seedtick (Apr 4, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 4, 2019)

----------


## ranald

You should see the ones the sheep use.Post #599

----------


## Toolmaker51

> WWII shell factory workers.



Won't relay thoughts or likely text I'd post.
But it's in English!

----------


## ranald

#608 It's amazing how wars can get economies going even after depressions & also that governments cant find/create the requisite resources & stimulii to fix most recessions without wars. They suddenly find dough to SHELL out overnight.

----------

bruce.desertrat (Apr 5, 2019),

hansgoudzwaard (Apr 4, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 4, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

and just what are all of those people looking for? They are not dressed like assembly line workers.

Ralph

----------


## Scotsman Hosie

[/QUOTE]

If OSHA was on the job, they'd be wearing a harness and safety line  and there would be doors on their little floating cubicles. (Wouldn't want to forget where you're at  and step out for _a break_.

----------

PowerMk (Apr 7, 2019),

volodar (Apr 9, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

reference to post 613, or smash into the lift of the guy next to you when you need to access files right next to his sector where he my be working below or above you in a drawer right next to your sector

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 7, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> reference to post 613, or smash into the lift of the guy next to you when you need to access files right next to his sector where he my be working below or above you in a drawer right next to your sector



Reckon they would've been sorted into sections by another party beforehand. My first admin job was sorting (& other stuff) for the filing guys but less there than that lot. Of course the right hand guy is obviously the head guy...................as he steps out on the chap on the left's head, while descending for a loo break.

----------


## Jon

Four Wheel Drive Auto Co. Washington, D.C., circa 1927. 

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Alan Purdy (Apr 10, 2019),

baja (Apr 10, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 9, 2019),

Seedtick (Apr 10, 2019),

volodar (Apr 9, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

I bet the slick tires on the front of that one on the left really help with traction.  :Smile:

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 9, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Love the leather seats!!

Ralph

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 9, 2019)

----------


## volodar

Re: WWII shell factory workers
A pre-digital era ¨photoshop¨. How did the four front line workers - conveniently, two men, two women get into the tightly packed rows of shells? Removal/insertion from above? Temporary planking walkway? Part of a WWII bond drive ad I suppose. Certain to fool many.

----------


## Scotsman Hosie

> Re: WWII shell factory workers
> A pre-digital era ¨photoshop¨. How did the four front line workers - conveniently, two men, two women get into the tightly packed rows of shells? Removal/insertion from above? Temporary planking walkway? Part of a WWII bond drive ad I suppose. Certain to fool many.



I don't know. Unless the angle of the photo belies the actual amount of space between them. Still, the question might be — what are they doing?

----------

volodar (Apr 10, 2019)

----------


## TSiArt

If you look in the foreground , you can see that 3 shells are next to each other and then there is space for next 3 shells deep row. so there are paths from left to right of the photo that you can walk between the shells

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 9, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

they are inspecting serial numbers, as everyone knows a bomb or shell won't work without the correct serial number printed on it.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 10, 2019)

----------


## Jon

A couple more shell manufacturing pics. WWI. Largest size images available.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 10, 2019),

Seedtick (Apr 10, 2019)

----------


## volodar

¨I bet the slick tires on the front of that one on the left really help with traction¨

Depending on conditions, they give the ultimate in traction. Have a look at Formula One wheels.

----------


## hemmjo

> Depending on conditions, they give the ultimate in traction. Have a look at Formula One wheels.



Ah yes, but even F1 has tread for use when the conditions degrade.

----------


## volodar

> If you look in the foreground , you can see that 3 shells are next to each other and then there is space for next 3 shells deep row. so there are paths from left to right of the photo that you can walk between the shells



But not in Post 608. foreground is solid.

----------


## Scotsman Hosie

> But not in Post 608. foreground is solid.



Probably just the way the photo was framed, or cropped.

----------


## skibo

I would love to see one up close, and maybe even crawl under it to scope out the many years gone by, engineering! What brutes they must of been to drive in those years, with not even so much as power anything except maybe the dump box! It would nearly wear a guy out just getting up and down from these beast's, but then after all, they were not use to many fancy, work saving add on's such as automatic transmission's, power steering and brakes! I'll bet they were the true meaning of a stiff, rough ride!

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 10, 2019)

----------


## Scotsman Hosie

> I'll bet they were the true meaning of a stiff, rough ride!



Yes. Pitched about in that high up seat — with no seat belt.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> they are inspecting serial numbers, as everyone knows a bomb or shell won't work without the correct serial number printed on it.



Try as I might, have other tasks this evening, can't produce legit references/ justification for ordnance serials. 
Large naval gun barrels have a predetermined lifespan, even with chromium plating in the first ~2/3rds of length. The hygroscopic nature of black powder causes erosion, combined with the heat and friction produced in firing. Compensating for bore erosion is incremental sizing, as projectiles were 'custom' lots, made suitable for a particular ship, and more specifically condition of bores. 



Occasionally, the used micrometers appear on auction sites. The frames are near fully rubber insulated to guard expansion when held in the hand. When in the market for larger micrometer's with tenths [10,000] verniers, these are a good choice. 


Hare-hole! US-NAV-WEPS related material. USA 16"/50 (40.6 cm) Mark 7 - NavWeaps

----------

Jon (Apr 13, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 12, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Boys working in a mill in Massachusetts - 1912



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Apr 14, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 14, 2019),

Seedtick (Apr 14, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 13, 2019),

volodar (Apr 17, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

I've a long standing fixation on what must be inside different toolrooms, which translates to what mine should reflect. For the entry way, I have a great deal of visual history, somewhat like the "Black & White" thread here. All manner of machines and product, people a distant third. 
Photo above I realize, and others like it, deserve space as well representing changes in work environments. 

Textile industry is a non-topic for our family, having lost three dear girls in the Triangle Shirtwaist fire, March 25, 1911.

----------

ranald (Apr 13, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 14, 2019)

----------


## ranald

The tallest lad appears looking to his left: may be the boss is giving them the hurry up look. 
Bare Feet! Help feed the family.

I was lucky that as a child, I chose to work before & after school; whereas my dad had to miss school (& I didn't really appreciate schooling).

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 14, 2019)

----------


## Cowboydon73

> Hmm, I see 1 welder & 2 cutters. Anyone else see the same? Have a look at the helmets, Says volumes. Oh and the woman on the right is sure as _ell gonna learn what the one in the center would have learned at one time or another. The 6" cuff on her pants gives that lesson away. Some even learn to tie their boots up proper real quick also! Women or men makes no difference at all. We all seem to burn up pretty much the same. No big gender differences there. Yup! Bit of red hot slag slides down a slightly open boot or into a rolled up cuff and one gets to learning real, real quick. Oh ya and all the while looking around to see who's watching your silliness.



Could it be they are brazing? I only see one hand on the torch

----------


## Jon

Fixing a sewer break in Seattle, Washington. 1923. 

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 16, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> Fixing a sewer break in Seattle, Washington. 1923. 
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



A mate of mine was a sewer guy & said it was a crappy job. To try to equal his comment I told him I had hundreds of people under me in my job and it was in the dead centre of town etc etc etc as told by all grave diggers. 

He did also tell me of a pencil willow that had its roots in the sewer main & they had to cut it into 6metre segments to remove the 18 metre+ main root which clogged the full diameter of the pipe.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 16, 2019)

----------


## VinnieL

I think that's the crew that's working on a sewer here in town right now. They have had 2 and 3 of the 4 lanes of the street closed for over 3 weeks now.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I think that's the crew that's working on a sewer here in town right now. They have had 2 and 3 of the 4 lanes of the street closed for over 3 weeks now.



Hard to believe a mere 92 years ago, leaning on idle shovels had yet to be developed. Even the 12 pound sledges are unattended. There are some practiced bystanders.

----------


## Frank S

Ok we've isolated the problem let's head over to Frank's café for lunch and discuss how we are going to repair it over a cup of coffee and a slice of Apple pie.

----------


## Jon

1927 Seattle city light workers.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg



More: Seattle Municipal Archives Photograph Collection

----------

baja (Apr 20, 2019),

ranald (Apr 19, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 19, 2019),

Seedtick (Apr 19, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 19, 2019),

volodar (Apr 19, 2019)

----------


## skibo

Wow that's one scary place to be, I'll bet the transformers don't have a drop of PCBs,in them Yuk Yuk!
'

----------


## bruce.desertrat

In a previous career, we used Arochlor 1254 (a specific PCB formulation) as an agent to stimulate liver enzymes (p450 variants) in rats for use in cancer research; we ran out of our supply, had to get some more and what had previously cost us $$ cost $$$$$ since it was no longer made. 

Some wags told us 'just go get some mud from the river' (this was in NY along the infamously polluted by PCB's Hudson River.)

We had an entirely separate room in the building that I had to wear a bunny suit, respirator and two layers of gloves to weigh it out into the container I was going to use. We took that stuff and all the other crazy chemicals and radioactive materials we worked with pretty seriously, (one of our younger research chemists died of liver cancer soon after I started working there, he was only 34).

I can't imagine what life was like for the workers filling those transformers back then...

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 21, 2019),

volodar (Apr 19, 2019)

----------


## Altair

Rat catchers. Liverpool, England, c. 1933.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 24, 2019),

Seedtick (Apr 24, 2019)

----------


## VinnieL

With larger cages, the same technique could be used in the U.S. to straighten-out Congress.....

----------

Toolmaker51 (Apr 24, 2019),

TSiArt (Apr 24, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

> With larger cages, the same technique could be used in the U.S. to straighten-out Congress.....



possibly, but they would require chemical and biological protective clothing to handle them with,plus some very strong adhesive as they are very slippery

----------

Toolmaker51 (Apr 24, 2019),

TSiArt (Apr 24, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> With larger cages, the same technique could be used in the U.S. to straighten-out Congress.....



ain't enough cages. . .

----------


## hemmjo

> ain't enough cages. . .



Hey, what if we all get together and build some cages!!! Collectively... we should have all the skills needed to build them!!!!

just a thought....

----------


## owen moore

It must have been a respectable job. They wear neck ties and white shirts!

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 24, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Hey, what if we all get together and build some cages!!! Collectively... we should have all the skills needed to build them!!!!
> 
> just a thought....



I'm in. Perhaps just one big cage; none of that 'across the aisle' nonsense. Most of them will perish ala "Lord of the Flies". I'm thinking last two will epitomize one each of worst and very best of them.

----------


## jimfols

> It must have been a respectable job. They wear neck ties and white shirts!




And their shoes are shined. Neat appearance just makes thing better.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 24, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 26, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

> It must have been a respectable job. They wear neck ties and white shirts!



Meaning no disrespect to you Owen, but fortunately, white shirts and neck ties are not indicators of the need for respect. Nor is smooth talking, it is actions and integrity that command respect.

----------

ranald (Apr 27, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 26, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

I used to tell my young engineers who would show up for our conferences those ties you are wearing are nothing but an indication that you are planning on being hanged for something you are about to or have already done so you already have the noose around your necks. To me a tie is nothing more than a vanity ornament just like jewelry ie rings necklace's and wrist watches. The only time anyone ever saw me wear one was while I was in the Army and then only when we had to wear the silly dress uniforms for parades or other equally useless events. I'm the same way about a suit I don't own one and refuse to wear one for any reason. I gave both my oral master's and doctoral dissertations wearing jeans and a western shirt and boots my summation was they took me as I was or not made no difference to me.
When ever I see someone wearing a tie in a work place my first thought is they brought their own rope

----------

baja (Apr 30, 2019),

ranald (Apr 27, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 26, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> I gave both my oral master's and doctoral dissertations wearing jeans and a western shirt and boots



So it's actually "Dr. S"!  :Cool: 

The number of advanced degrees held by members of this forum is humbling. And it's the good degrees too.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 27, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 26, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

Jon I don't use the tittle to me it just sounds ostentatious

----------


## Jon

Interior of main garage of American Red Cross, 79 Rue Laugier, Paris, France. March, 1919.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Apr 27, 2019),

ranald (Apr 27, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 27, 2019),

Seedtick (Apr 26, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

Doing what you had to do with what you had in the space available

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 27, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> And their shoes are shined. Neat appearance just makes thing better.



There are exceptions. A lot of bankers and politicians use that disguise. . .
and insurance appraisers.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 27, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> New York, 1899. Dumping snow carts at the river after a blizzard.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Apr 30, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 28, 2019),

Seedtick (Apr 29, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 28, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Proper black and white photography denotes as many possible shades [grey] and total black and white; not easy in snow settings. This is a good example! The focus and depth of field are outstanding too.

----------


## suther51

> Jon I don't use the tittle to me it just sounds ostentatious



Frank S,
Doctors practice, I think that you are well past that stage, your accomplishments are respected by many here.
Eric

----------


## Jon

> Employees at the Western Canada Shipyards, False Creek, Vancouver, April, 1918.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

ranald (May 2, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 1, 2019),

Seedtick (May 1, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 1, 2019),

volodar (May 4, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Making wood frame boats. Interesting that everyone is wearing a hat, no baseball caps.

Ralph

----------


## skibo

It's really cool to see these old pictures, when I was little I remember all of my older relations,uncle, cousin, Dad and grandfather whore hats also clear in to the mid fifties, every man seem to wear a hat! These old wooden freighters were part of the first world war effort, and many didn't get used at all. Many were anchored in the Sound in Washing State , which become known as "Wilson's Wood Row"!

----------


## bruce.desertrat

_"Dad and grandfather whore hats also clear in to the mid fifties, every man seem to wear a hat! "
_
Current thinking is that the widespread advent of driving your own car is what killed off the custom of men wearing hats.

https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwic...ginning-with-i

The More You Know!

(also answers the question of why you didn't see any ball caps: caps where a boys headgear, not a man's)

https://medium.com/s/pulling-at-thre...t-2f382b4a35ec

----------

Alan Purdy (May 3, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 2, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 1, 2019),

volodar (May 4, 2019)

----------


## ranald

The hat V cap thing is ,in my opinion, a marketing & profit thing. After a generation of skin cancers to the ears & back of neck etc then there will be a push for sombreros and wide brim hats: not just "slip, slop, slap" as we have here.

I didn't wear hats when younger as i was a "long haired leaping loon" or whatever but even though, later in life, I wore a helmet with muffs while brushcutting, chainsawing, mowing, landscaping, & a hat while gardening etc I still managed to get skin cancer to the top of my ear. Dr said we will have to monitor that one and the one on my cheek so I applied radium weed and beside the cheek's severe pain the cancers scabbed up and dropped off. I told Dr & he said there was research into that euphorbia. Drug companies will charge a bomb for the stuff they concoct. 

My elderly friend hates the pain of needles and the cutting out of the cancers on her face( and she has had quite a few-one time she looked like a "little Ausie Bleeder" with all the tiny round bandaids on her face. She decided to get me to apply some sap but with no responsibility on me. Most have gone within a fortnight. One however has scabbed twice and still coming out so had a third application this week: she claims the roots of it must have been very deep and any surgery would have made a mess of her face.

Don't try at home without medical advice & the correct plant.

Cheers

----------

Scotsman Hosie (May 2, 2019)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Yeah as a desert dweller myself, I've long been a fan of wide brimmed hats, or at least one like this : https://usa.solbari.com/collections/...-sun-hat-upf50 

That one at least is car-seat-with-headrest friendly.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (May 2, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Replacing the propeller of the SS Leviathan



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

MeJasonT (May 3, 2019),

Seedtick (May 2, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 2, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> Yeah as a desert dweller myself, I've long been a fan of wide brimmed hats, or at least one like this : https://usa.solbari.com/collections/...-sun-hat-upf50 
> 
> That one at least is car-seat-with-headrest friendly.



That is similar to the Arafat Hat I used to wear but I dont wear one of any kind while driving: I like to have best vision and full attention possible. I get a bit annoyed when my partner asks "is there anything behind?" I generally respond "you are the driver so check it out" but I look anyway as she has reversed into my car; LOL.

In old days back in 60s with no headreasts & through to 80s with head restraints, one always avoided an old guy in a hat who was driving = unpredictable! more laughs but true.

----------

volodar (May 4, 2019)

----------


## Altair

Manufacturing propellers for the _Hog Islanders_ cargo and troop transport ships at the Henry Pratt Company plant in Aurora, Illinois, c. 1918.

----------


## Ralphxyz

Love the dirt floor, don't need to worry about sweeping. How is that drill press powered?

Ralph

----------


## stillldoinit

Appears to be a lineshaft under floor, look at the cone pulleys on the bottom of the machine to the right.

----------


## stillldoinit

Looking closer there is a conduit going up, could have been converted to electric motor unless the wire is for lighting.

----------


## Ralphxyz

yeah probable electric, I was wondering about how the spindle was powered, looks like a drive shaft running left to right behind the operators head.

Ralph

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Appears to be a lineshaft under floor, look at the cone pulleys on the bottom of the machine to the right.



(and) Looking closer there is a conduit going up, could have been converted to electric motor unless the wire is for lighting.[/QUOTE]

Likely both are true. Certain the machine to right is a planer, a lineshaft driven table very possible. Conduit powering a milling spindle could be later additions. Also notice photo subject radial drill isn't quite a 'radial'. Instead of a ground circular column it's more like a cast post with a hinge, not anything rigid like a normal radial. Even the gearing and spindle/ quill kind of lightweight. I believe this machine is suited for smaller holes on wide parts; too big for a table type drill press. Similar to a 'jackknife' drill, very nimble positioning to pick up center-punched layout marks.

----------


## Toolmaker51

My old building [1890's] was a grain mill; just one big enclosed area, loading dock high, and 16' ceiling. West side of property is concrete pad and footprint of 3, 20 foot silos. Underneath is a machinery room; inside the floor has covered trenches; grain augers and lineshaft(s) to run equipment. I've been in a few line-driven buildings. The overhead variety, all exhibits and museums. Underfloor examples were equally prevalent. 

There was until recently the mill Aunt Jemima Pancake Mix was made in, when Rutt-Underwood sold to Davis who went nation-wide. Theirs worked both ways; ground floor overhead, second floor underneath, and so on. The grain lift, steel scoops on a vertical conveyor belt, went up about 6 stories. Perfected recipe in their home kitchen, outgrown quickly. My building might have been phase two, before the big plant. Can't find evidence, just old-timers and hearsay. It was leased to Pillsbury for a time as well, they milled in competition with Davis and Quaker Oats. . .All I've found is business addresses, some with 2 and 3 digit phone numbers, lol; but not the facilities. 
Yep. Right there in St. Joseph, MO. Walter Cronkite, Jane Wyman, Pony Express, Jesse Jame Home, St. Joseph's Aspirin, Patee Museum, Lewis & Clark, Cherry Mash, brass firemen's pole and quick horse team harness, how about saltine [soda] crackers? Only instrumental in the migration westward, into households world wide. 
Far too many more unique aspects and originals to mention.
https://stjomo.com/escape/

----------

baja (May 5, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 4, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Breaker boys. 1911.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (May 7, 2019),

ranald (May 6, 2019),

Seedtick (May 6, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Another sigh. Mostly adults, maybe a couple teens. But he, right front in the elevator car couldn't be 12 IMHO.

----------


## ranald

The large pointed pailing gate, when closed was to make them think they were in a castle in a far-off place. Doubt they had reveries like that in there.

the chap on the left just cant wait to do the next shift!

----------


## Jon

Vivian Cotton Mills. 1908.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (May 9, 2019),

ranald (May 9, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 8, 2019),

Seedtick (May 8, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 8, 2019),

volodar (May 8, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

Back then everybody worked from the young boys and girls to the eldest grandmother the grandpas usually died young from working themselves to death

----------

Scotsman Hosie (May 8, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

We are the most fortunate of all labor, being skilled. 
Instead of mere production work, being just the means to support one self for pay; we collect knowledge that can't be purchased. Our value to self and society increases every minute.
If you are an employee, owner gets deal of the century. 

Make sure he knows it, or thump an accountant on the way out. 
That's why tool boxes have wheels.

----------

Beserkleyboy (May 8, 2019),

HobieDave (Mar 7, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (May 8, 2019)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

TM51
Too right! I've been on both sides of the equation and I like to think that I have always treated employees with the respect they deserve, while still demanding they perform to their ability....now the accountants....I reckon there's 2 broad categories, 1) the good guys that actually help you with your or the company's finances and 2) the needle nosed bean counters trying to weedle their way up the ladder, saving pennies to impress the boss....cheers
Jim in a beautiful autumn day in South Coast NSW AUS

----------

Toolmaker51 (May 8, 2019)

----------


## Jon

U.S. Naval Gun Factory. Washington Navy Yard. Washington, D.C. 1903.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

clydeman (May 11, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 12, 2019),

Seedtick (May 9, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 8, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> TM51
> Too right! I've been on both sides of the equation and I like to think that I have always treated employees with the respect they deserve, while still demanding they perform to their ability....now the accountants....I reckon there's 2 broad categories, 1) the good guys that actually help you with your or the company's finances and 2) the needle nosed bean counters trying to weedle their way up the ladder, saving pennies to impress the boss....cheers
> Jim in a beautiful autumn day in South Coast NSW AUS



I've said more times than wishing to count. Accountants work [theoretically] to minimize costs. More often they've found ways to re-characterize expenses, negating worth for profit. One can create the other, yet not the other way around. 
That always raises their eyebrows, contrary to what professors laid on. 
I've asked them, "when this place goes under, whose work, even remnants, attract competing bidders?" 
Your stack of paper makes it to the recycling bin.

----------

Beserkleyboy (May 8, 2019),

ranald (May 9, 2019)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

....the nail on the head...AND, they still never 'get it'....

----------

ranald (May 9, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 9, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> Back then everybody worked from the young boys and girls to the eldest grandmother the grandpas usually died young from working themselves to death



Too true: as a grave digger, I had time to spend when funerals were taking place. In those years most everyone passed by the age of 40 & so so many kids.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (May 12, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 9, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> I've said more times than wishing to count. Accountants work [theoretically] to minimize costs. More often they've found ways to re-characterize expenses, negating worth for profit. One can create the other, yet not the other way around. 
> That always raises their eyebrows, contrary to what professors laid on. 
> I've asked them, "when this place goes under, whose work, even remnants, attract competing bidders?" 
> Your stack of paper makes it to the recycling bin.



My dad was retrenched 6 months before retirement. There were 5 workers doing the earning while about 40 were still in admin+ wonder why they went bankrupt!

----------

Toolmaker51 (May 9, 2019)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Oh fear not, what with the anti-vax idiocy we'll be back up to the 'so so many kids' level in no time....  :Soapbox:

----------

EnginePaul (May 26, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Dock conveyors. New Orleans, 1906.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (May 19, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 12, 2019),

Seedtick (May 13, 2019)

----------


## Mark Fogleman

Their labor built the area I live in. Had it not been for the military and GI Bill I would have ended up in their place.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (May 12, 2019)

----------


## 12bolts

> 



Not too often you see a hand held blackwall hitch in that dia rope

----------

Scotsman Hosie (May 12, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Gas coke delivery. 1912.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Alan Purdy (May 16, 2019),

baja (May 16, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 18, 2019),

Seedtick (May 15, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 15, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

1912! My house was already 11 years old. A quick google says the 'gas' is produced burning coke to obtain fuel, mainly for illumination. But the truck load includes bags, making home equipment unclear.
Now if, I don't know who, someone was to say the bags ARE gas, we'd have a field day punting that around.

One more of Jon's streak, finding really high quality black and white photos. Nothing details subjects like good black and white.

----------


## suther51

I would dare a guess the bags contain coke, likely a by product sold for heating and cooking. If anyone knows I would love to hear. 
Eric

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I would dare a guess the bags contain coke, likely a by product sold for heating and cooking. If anyone knows I would love to hear. 
> Eric



My WAG says so too; but those bags aren't very big. They're definitely working in residential area. Many of the homes around here were built with coal chutes direct to bin storage, all those heated with hot water radiators. 
And how I'm crazy, seeking that same radiant method to heat shop. Foot thick brick walls & 17' high, ~200k pounds of cast iron, who wouldn't? 
I've no love for those hanging or torpedo gas forced air burners. Stand here - bake lasagna; stand here 1 foot away and grab _ice cold_ machine handles. Ineffective zone control = Total waste of energy!

----------


## suther51

> My WAG says so too; but those bags aren't very big. They're definitely working in residential area. Many of the homes around here were built with coal chutes direct to bin storage, all those heated with hot water radiators. 
> And how I'm crazy, seeking that same radiant method to heat shop. Foot thick brick walls & 17' high, ~200k pounds of cast iron, who wouldn't? 
> I've no love for those hanging or torpedo gas forced air burners. Stand here - bake lasagna; stand here 1 foot away and grab _ice cold_ machine handles. Ineffective zone control = Total waste of energy!



Yup, cooking then, cleaner n hotter than coal, less needed.
With all that thermal mass we all know where the neighborhood will go knocking when the power goes out with negative temps. ;-)

----------


## Frank S

At the blacksmith shop Clarence kept a bag or 2 of the granulated gas coke to assist in lighting the forges A 1/4 newspaper page with a fistful of the gas coke rolled up inside of it then a couple shovels full of coal 1 kitchen match and a few minutes later you could begin whirling the blower handle

----------

baja (May 16, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Yup, cooking then, cleaner n hotter than coal, less needed.
> With all that thermal mass we all know where the neighborhood will go knocking when the power goes out with negative temps. ;-)



Yup is right. And be welcomed. 
Long as they tote something along to be made. ;-0

----------


## Jon

Fire crew in a Packard. Detroit, Michigan. May 3, 1911.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Alan Purdy (May 18, 2019),

baja (May 17, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 18, 2019),

Seedtick (May 17, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Doffers and sweepers in the Mollahan Mills. Newberry, South Carolina, 1908.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg




Doffer in Lincolnton Mill. Lincolnton, North Carolina.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (May 21, 2019),

Beserkleyboy (May 19, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 19, 2019),

Seedtick (May 20, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 19, 2019),

volodar (May 20, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

No question child labor existed a long time, well before the Industrial Revolution. I'd hope an average day was uneventful and they finished in one piece. At the same time being directly involved with production, did any find and create solutions for safety, quality or output? Causes me to wonder; being around accidents, inefficiency, and conditions overall, was OJT [on job training] utilized to benefit owners or their work-force? 
A safe bet would be certain employers saw children as an inexhaustible and very cheap source of labor. Photographic evidence seems to indicate textiles and clothing used children more than others, maybe size was a factor too?

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Jon
Thanks again for these wonderful photos...I just spent the best part of an hour learning about doffers, child labor, linen mills, Taunton, Mass, the silverware produced there....and all from 1 photo...Cheers
Jim in Sth Coast NSW AUS

----------


## volodar

Re: ¨Doffers and sweepers in the Mollahan Mills. Newberry, South Carolina, 1908.¨

Couldn´t help but notice the exclusion from the main group of the only non-white boy. Off to the side, and in the background.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (May 20, 2019)

----------


## Scotsman Hosie

[QUOTE=volodar – Couldn´t help but notice the exclusion from the main group of the only non-white boy. Off to the side, and in the background.[/QUOTE]

Good eye – to have spotted that.

----------

volodar (May 21, 2019)

----------


## jimfols

> Re: ¨Doffers and sweepers in the Mollahan Mills. Newberry, South Carolina, 1908.¨
> 
> Couldn´t help but notice the exclusion from the main group of the only non-white boy. Off to the side, and in the background.



It's an old woman

----------

Scotsman Hosie (May 21, 2019),

volodar (May 21, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

> It's an old woman



Yep, it is a woman, AND she is still working, not just sitting there. Looks like she might be sorting through cotton, possibly removing debris, etc.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (May 21, 2019),

volodar (May 21, 2019)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

> Photographic evidence seems to indicate textiles and clothing used children more than others, maybe size was a factor too?



Yes children were preferred because they were small enough to get in and under the (usually running) equipment.

----------

Toolmaker51 (May 21, 2019)

----------


## Jon

1963 Chrysler Turbine Car being assembled. Largest image available:



More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Turbine_Car

----------

baja (May 24, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 24, 2019),

Seedtick (May 23, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 25, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

AH, I had forgotten all about those. But can never forget "Silent Sam" the Andy Granatelli's STP turbine entry into the Indy500 in 1967. It totally dominated the race until a bearing failed with 4 laps to go. After that they placed air intake size restrictions on turbine engines, there were a few entries after that, but they did not have a chance with the restrictions.

OLD TIME video from YouTube if that race. 

 (I never understand why people think that music is good)

I never got to see one of the Chrysler turbines in person... 



More information in regard to the turbine program...

----------

jimfols (May 23, 2019),

Jon (May 23, 2019),

KustomsbyKent (May 23, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 24, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 25, 2019)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Per the Wikipedia entry only 9 of the 55 Chrysler turbines made still exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Turbine_Car 

I had the Revell model of that Granatelli Indy Turbine. 

Here's a good article about it and the other turbine that ran at INdy, the Lotus 56 https://gizmodo.com/this-jet-powered...500-1664958175

----------

Scotsman Hosie (May 24, 2019)

----------


## VinnieL

One of those cars is in the National Museum of Transport in St. Louis. It belinged to Bobby Darin.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (May 24, 2019)

----------


## Altair

Cat's Meat Man, London, 1926-1927 by McLeish.

----------

baja (May 24, 2019),

Frank S (May 24, 2019),

high-side (May 25, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 25, 2019),

Seedtick (May 24, 2019),

volodar (May 24, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

> Cat's Meat Man, London, 1926-1927 by McLeish.



London's cats; nature's way to combat another plague

----------

olderdan (May 24, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 25, 2019),

volodar (May 24, 2019)

----------


## olderdan

> London's cats; nature's way to combat another plague



I grew up in Earls Court inner London and we were beset with sewer rats in our rented flat above stables. The council would put down food baited with warfarin but the rats never touched it so we got a cat. Never saw a rat again after that.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (May 25, 2019)

----------


## stillldoinit

I saw a turbine car at the world's fair in N.Y. in 1964. I was on liberty from Great Lakes. The year I enlisted and was going to electrician school before being assigned to a ship in Norfolk Va. Seem that the turbine at Indy had already lapped the field in the first few laps. I did not remember it almost finishing the race.

----------


## Jon

Ground crews arming a B-29 Superfortress of the 500th Bomb Group at Isley Field, Saipan. 1945.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (May 26, 2019),

Clockguy (May 25, 2019),

high-side (May 26, 2019),

jimfols (May 25, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 25, 2019),

Seedtick (May 25, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 26, 2019)

----------


## Clockguy

I wonder how that skinny kid on top of that aircraft pulled that long belt of 50 caliber all the way up the side of that fuselage without doing any damage to the aluminum skin?? Also, if you pull up the full sized photo, and zoom in on the guy on the prop, he looks like he is about to fall asleep!!

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I wonder how that skinny kid on top of that aircraft pulled *that long belt of 50 caliber* all the way up the side of that fuselage without doing any damage to the aluminum skin?? Also, if you pull up the full sized photo, and zoom in on the guy on the prop, he looks like he is about to fall asleep!!



Supposedly, expending the entire belt on a target gave rise to expression "the whole nine yards". I'd estimate .50 cal space 1.4" center to center in linked belts, which equates to around 230 rounds...
True or not, that definition is good enough for me.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (May 25, 2019)

----------


## 12bolts

Unlikely, as the phrase predates the war.



> Supposedly, expending the entire belt on a target gave rise to expression "the whole nine yards". ....



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_whole_nine_yards

----------

Alan Purdy (May 29, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (May 26, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Unlikely, as the phrase predates the war.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_whole_nine_yards



Interesting, and logical dissemination of the phrase. Aware of other connected usage [whole enchilada, shooting match, ball of wax, shebang, even lock, stock & barrel] etc, emphasizing completeness. I use them all, not very interchangeably. 

Personally, none convey the image as well. Even one projectile capable perforating 0.875 inches (22.2 mm) of face-hardened armor steel plate at 100 yards (91 m), and 0.75 inches (19 mm) at 547 yards (500 m).

----------

Scotsman Hosie (May 26, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

I like the guy sitting on the prop!

Ralph

----------


## Toolmaker51

I like the guy captioning the ordnance.

----------


## Jon

Women workers in a British shell factory. 1917.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (May 29, 2019),

jackhoying (May 28, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (May 28, 2019),

Seedtick (May 28, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

There are more women than shells in that factory

----------

Scotsman Hosie (May 28, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

I "think" that is a poised picture, the men in the picture don't look like factory workers.

Ralph

----------


## jackhoying

It's a posed photo, but look at the size of that building and the numbers of shells and personnel. If it was taken in modern day, it would take a skilled guy using Photoshop to come up with something like this.

----------


## imohtep56

The phallic symbolism is way too obvious- even for 1917...

----------

Scotsman Hosie (May 28, 2019)

----------


## Altair

Group of children carrying in their pecks to the "bushel man". Theodore Budd's Bog at Turkeytown near Pemberton, N.J. c. 1910. Photo by Lewis Wickes Hine.

----------

baja (Jun 3, 2019),

ranald (Jun 3, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 7, 2019),

Seedtick (Jun 3, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Googled "Theodore Budd's Bog at Turkeytown", which doesn't naturally point to any one particular situation. 
Don't venture a search there if you want a pleasant morning read. Among other exploitations, Dear Mr. Budd used peckboxes of 10 quart capacity, not the correct volume of 8. . .

----------

ranald (Jun 3, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 7, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Manufacturing glass bottles. T.C. Wheaton Company. 1937.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

opoth66 (Jun 4, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 7, 2019),

Seedtick (Jun 3, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> Group of children carrying in their pecks to the "bushel man". Theodore Budd's Bog at Turkeytown near Pemberton, N.J. c. 1910. Photo by Lewis Wickes Hine.



I find it interesting that the smaller containers/boxes are finger jointed whereas the larger ones are not so solidlt constructed.

----------


## jdurand

I think the larger ones were shipped off to the stores, you might not get them back. Also, the little ones being carried around would see rougher treatment.

----------


## Altair

Steam traction engine hauling logs with team of loggers, c. 1939. Photo by Jervie Henry Eastman.

----------

baja (Jun 5, 2019),

ranald (Jun 6, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 5, 2019)

----------


## opoth66

T C Wheaton glass works were in my home town!

----------


## mklotz

> Steam traction engine hauling logs with team of loggers, c. 1939. Photo by Jervie Henry Eastman.



These log haulers were fascinating vehicles. Here's a video of a restored Lombard hauler in motion...




Note the steersman out in front. He had a rope/bell system to communicate with the engineer manning the propulsion. 

Over on MEM, Chris Rueby has built a highly detailed, operating model of this machine. This video shows it in operation in his driveway...




If you're interested in Chris' model, a complete build thread is located here...

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/inde...ic,6515.0.html

His current project is an even more complex model of a Marion steam shovel. Build thread here...

Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel

WARNING: Both of these build threads are extremely deep rabbit holes. However, if you're interested in seeing how a master craftsman models a complex machine from scratch, these introductions will blow your mind.

----------

baja (Jun 5, 2019),

ranald (Jun 6, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 5, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 5, 2019)

----------


## Slawman

Best was a fore runner of Cat.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 7, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Engineers check the new White House air conditioning system. 1952.

Largest image size available.

----------

ranald (Jun 7, 2019),

Seedtick (Jun 7, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Engineers check the new White House air conditioning system. 1952.



1952, already impossibly cool, with some help from its 227th day.

----------

ranald (Jun 7, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 7, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Engineers check the new White House air conditioning system. 1952.
> 
> Largest image size available.



Who'll bet that, right in front of the kneeling engineer, isn't a circular chart recorder? And waaaa-y bigger than TV screens of the era!

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Absolutely. I've had to manage recorders just like that for temperature controlled spaces in places I've worked. They were 7-day recorders, and needed a new chart every week.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 8, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Canals in Venice being drained and cleaned. 1956.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jun 11, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 10, 2019),

Seedtick (Jun 11, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

OH WOW, that had to smell REALLY BAD.. I used to hate helping to clean out the community swimming pool after it sat over winter with the water lowered, to just below the outlets from the filter system. It was awful smelly. Cannot imagine those canals..

----------


## Frank S

My question is where do they carry off the muck. or are those bins actually part of the drainage system to carry off the silt through a pipe underneath?

----------


## Toolmaker51

Canal cleaning? First off, who accepts the water drained away. Then, old as Venice is, tells me sewage collects as well. And to the mid-left; spectators?

----------


## Clockguy

> Who'll bet that, right in front of the kneeling engineer, isn't a circular chart recorder? And waaaa-y bigger than TV screens of the era!



Or maybe an extra clothes dryer for the White House 1st Lady, Maimie??  :Bow:

----------


## mklotz

> Or maybe an extra clothes dryer for the White House 1st Lady, Maimie??



In 1952 it would have been Bess Truman, not Mamie Eisenhower.

----------


## Clockguy

> Canals in Venice being drained and cleaned. 1956.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg




Hmmmm, no ready evidence of any plastic bags, bottles, or kid's toys?? 

It's hard to believe that we have left ALL of the plastic TRASH found on this planet today .....

----------


## Clockguy

> In 1952 it would have been Bess Truman, not Mamie Eisenhower.



Yeah, I guess you're right, Ike wouldn't have been sworn in until the following January ....... 

Sorry Bess ..... [I wonder if she remembers the Venice Canal Cleaning of '56??]

----------


## Clockguy

> Interior of main garage of American Red Cross, 79 Rue Laugier, Paris, France. March, 1919.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



Wow! Not only did these guys have to know how to drive, but they had to be able to administer First Aid to both victims AND ambulances, ..... when needed.

Edit:

Boy, I have a pair of hips which need drastic replacement, and the pain killers and muscle relaxants I am on are really messing with my timing in posting responses. Sorry about that.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 10, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Venice disposes sewage into its famous canals. It's swept out by tides twice-daily. It has modernized somewhat, but this practice is still common: https://www.venipedia.org/wiki/index...ewage_disposal

----------

Frank S (Jun 9, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 10, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 9, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Venice disposes sewage into its famous canals. It's swept out by tides twice-daily. It has modernized somewhat, but this practice is still common: https://www.venipedia.org/wiki/index...ewage_disposal



Hmmmmmm. Not one single travel poster illustrated that. Ever.

----------

high-side (Jun 13, 2019),

ranald (Jun 9, 2019)

----------


## mklotz

> Hmmmmmm. Not one single travel poster illustrated that. Ever.



Chuckle. Good one.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jun 9, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> Venice disposes sewage into its famous canals. It's swept out by tides twice-daily. It has modernized somewhat, but this practice is still common: https://www.venipedia.org/wiki/index...ewage_disposal



Reminds me of one of the most iconic beaches (Bondi) in the sixties: some sort of blockage, bankup, blowout or overflow. When I advised my dad of the untreated logs, he told me it was like it in the thirties. Guess they have fixed it by now..........

----------


## Jon

I wonder if there is a Venetian version of Paris syndrome, in which people experience extreme shock when they discover that the famous Venice canals are actually sewers. I admit it was shocking just reading about it on the net.

----------

high-side (Jun 13, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 10, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 11, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> I wonder if there is a Venetian version of Paris syndrome, in which people experience extreme shock when they discover that the famous Venice canals are actually sewers. I admit it was shocking just reading about it on the net.



i reckon there would be esp if "it" was discovered the day after falling overboard from a gondola while in a loving embrace.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jun 11, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Glenelg Railway company workers. Australia, 1880.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Beserkleyboy (Jun 11, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 10, 2019),

Seedtick (Jun 11, 2019)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

> Canal cleaning? First off, who accepts the water drained away. Then, old as Venice is, tells me sewage collects as well. And to the mid-left; spectators?



Probably the relief crew. I doubt those guys could dig that s6!t for very long. Probably switched out pretty frequently I would think.

There is one VERY happy guy that LOVES his work there in the middle. Probably got promoted from shovel-er to cart pusher.  :Lol:   :ROFL:   :Lol:   :ROFL:

----------


## baja

Which one is Mike Rowe?

----------

Loose Ctrl (Jun 11, 2019)

----------


## Loose Ctrl

I'm not trying to be mean but the truth is the truth. Italy and the surrounding areas are some pretty vile places to go due to there lack of waste treatment. Not much has changed since the days of horses and carriages for their waste management.

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

They must have had good swimming horses back in the day in Venice, and floating carriages.  :Hat Tip:

----------


## olderdan

The Thames in London was in a similar state to Venice in the 1950s, I used to passenger on the Grenwich ferry as a youngster which was a paddle steamer. The stench as the paddles started from the churned up soup was almost enough to make you wretch, and people used to fish for eels in it.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> The Thames in London was in a similar state to Venice in the 1950s, I used to passenger on the Grenwich ferry as a youngster which was a paddle steamer. The stench as the paddles started from the churned up soup was almost enough to make you wretch, and people used to fish for eels in it.



Well, separating the two be easy enough. . .

----------


## Jon

Lathe workers in Scotland. Photograph taken from a display at the National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jun 13, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 13, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

Now THAT is a lathe!!!!! Wouldn't you love to see that in operation!!!

----------

Loose Ctrl (Jun 13, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

Switch it on and watch them scatter.
I'd take that even if it were so worn out by now that it is held together with rusted on swarth. Just think of how beautiful of a yard art piece it would be. I Have a half mile road frontage I'm sure I could find a place for it.

----------

baja (Jun 13, 2019),

ranald (Jun 13, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> Switch it on and watch them scatter.
> I'd take that even if it were so worn out by now that it is held together with rusted on swarth. Just think of how beautiful of a yard art piece it would be. I Have a half mile road frontage I'm sure I could find a place for it.



LOL, add a roof, Frank, and charge parking.

----------


## ranald

Probably powered by guinea pigs.

----------


## Frank S

> LOL, add a roof, Frank, and charge parking.



It would most defiantly have to be under a roof

----------


## Loose Ctrl

The biggest lathe I worked on had a six-foot swing and was set three feet into the concrete floor. We made extrusion dies for polymers out of different grades or stainless steel and titanium bar stock.

----------


## Ralphxyz

they even needed a policeman for traffic control while using the lathe.

Ralph

----------


## Jon

Air mail service mechanics. 1918.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jun 16, 2019),

Rangi (Jun 16, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 14, 2019),

Seedtick (Jun 14, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Women workers changing out an axle during WWI, c.1918



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jun 16, 2019)

----------


## Loose Ctrl

I want to say, "I'd let them work on my rear end", but that sounds to homo.

----------


## Jon

> Fireman puts on a burner on one of the USS Alabama's (BB-60) boilers. Taken during her shakedown cruise, circa January 1943.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jun 18, 2019),

ranald (Jun 20, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 20, 2019),

Seedtick (Jun 17, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 17, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> I want to say, "I'd let them work on my rear end", but that sounds to homo.



i think they might be past it.

----------


## jdurand

Regarding the boiler, my brother said:

Those are most likely 600# boilers with a controlled super-heat section. We had Forster wheeler 400# modified "D"boilers with uncontrolled super-heat.

He was on the USS Tidewater. Actually, there's a lesson there for young people starting out. My brother joined the Navy with several friends. They all went for "easy" assignments but my father encouraged my brother to do something that would apply to future work. After their stint in the Navy, his friends were cook's assistants. My brother left the engine room of a ship and applied for a state license to work on boilers, passed their highest test. With that gold license he was able to bypass all the people with seniority at a power company and start as a control operator. He's retired now, very happy for all that time he sweated in the Navy.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 20, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 18, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Johannesburg gold miners, c.1925



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jun 20, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 20, 2019),

Seedtick (Jun 19, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Going UP to get to the mine?

Ralph

----------


## bruce.desertrat

A very early example of Cloud technology :-P

----------


## trigger

Double decker cage??

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 20, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

At least two levels possible more, gota get'em in the mine!!

Ralph

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Going UP to get to the mine?
> 
> Ralph



Of course. Johannesburg and Australia have similar latitudes; so they're 'down under' too.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 20, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> Going UP to get to the mine?
> 
> Ralph



With more than one level elevator cage some wanted to be elevated first before being plunged below.

----------


## Beserkleyboy

....ugghhh, this reminded me of the Beaconsfield, Tasmania collapse...

----------


## ranald

> ....ugghhh, this reminded me of the Beaconsfield, Tasmania collapse...



Yeah reminds me NOW. Rather think of BeeGees song which was made up about NY mining disaster but makes one think of poor buggers stuck underground with only hope to keep going.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 20, 2019)

----------


## Jon

NASA scientists plan moon landing. 1962.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jun 22, 2019),

high-side (Jun 21, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 22, 2019),

Seedtick (Jun 21, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Detroit street sweepers. 1930s. Largest image size available.

----------

baja (Jun 23, 2019),

ranald (Jun 22, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 22, 2019),

Seedtick (Jun 22, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 22, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Happy looking lot! Probable glad they have a job.

Ralph

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 22, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Kind of staged looking press photo, numbered barrels indicate at least 265 such rigs, and even the brooms are carried alike.
So why is the trash to the right of mid frame still there?

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 23, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

The trash on the street is classic "not my job", of course it is staged press photo,I wonder if the trash was ever mentioned in letters to the editor?

Ralph

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 23, 2019)

----------


## ranald

Must have had a lot of littering from the population of 1.5 mill.

If they gave out on the spot fines for littering they would have employed as many folk and gained revenue : but depression may have meant more in jail costing more.
Ah, darn stats once again.

As was pointed out the big cheesy grins were for publicity.LOL

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 23, 2019)

----------


## skibo

Hum, good idea for giving homeless people that are out of work a lift up here in the States, glad to pay them $15.00 an hour!

----------


## volodar

It´s staged of course, and likely very close to their yard of mass departure. Along their walk they would branch out to each individual route. The street they´re on would likely belong to the last in line, who would pick up trash without obstructing any sweeper behind him. Just guessing.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Jun 23, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 23, 2019)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Maybe the last day of work for the horse dung patrol?

----------


## Jon

I imagine the vast majority of these work crew photos are staged, especially considering the era.

On the other hand, when grown men stand next to chest-high wheels, they tend to smile. It's like tickling a baby.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I imagine the vast majority of these work crew photos are staged, especially considering the era.
> 
> On the other hand, when grown men stand next to chest-high wheels, they tend to smile. It's like tickling a baby.



I'm MOL average height. Cart wheels don't do it for me. But spoked motorcycle wheels do at a third that height. So does spinning rubber!

----------


## Jon

> Construction of a floating dry dock, Marietta Manufacturing Company, Point Pleasant, W. Va, 1926.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Alan Purdy (Jun 29, 2019),

baja (Jun 29, 2019),

jackhoying (Jun 27, 2019),

Seedtick (Jun 28, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Aeroplane erecting room at the Thomas Brothers Aeroplane Company, Ithaca, New York, November 1915.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 2, 2019),

high-side (Jul 6, 2019),

jackhoying (Jul 1, 2019),

ranald (Jul 6, 2019),

Seedtick (Jul 1, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Madison Silk Company. March, 1937.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 7, 2019),

ranald (Jul 6, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 6, 2019)

----------


## ranald

All those hanging lights. Its just not cricket but I bet there were some good yarns spun there.

----------

marksbug (Jul 6, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 6, 2019)

----------


## marksbug

now stop skirting the issue's your just trying to get between the sheets with this thread, weveing this way and that way....then throwing your belt over there and....smoke break!!! we can see you over there looming in the corner....

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jul 6, 2019)

----------


## Frank S



----------


## marksbug

I still have that LP....somewhere....in a stack...probably all wonkey due to the wifes stacking nature.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> now stop skirting the issue's your just trying to get between the sheets with this thread, weveing this way and that way....then throwing your belt over there and....smoke break!!! we can see you over there looming in the corner....



https://streamable.com/a8rl5
Well bar-tack my gussets looky there! The fabric of new conversation, a pattern finely embroidered without any bias, hemming or us seaming to bolt from the room, and nary a cross stitch between us. 

The Ms. and I were Civil War Reinactors in the 116th Pennsylvania Infantry. We campaigned directly under U. S. Grant and spouse [Julia] as W.T. Sherman and [Eleanor]. She made our _perfectly_ accurate period clothing, my job was locating all the materials and fastenings. It was quite an education. That historical period has a lot of the industrial revolution in it, where the populace began to receive benefit, such as machine made clothing overtook handmade as desirable.

How'd our readers like my little snip of movie script?

----------


## marksbug

yikes your old!!!!Grant was a little before my tyme,but you were in your pencillvaina infancy so I reckon your not too old.... I do love history and all the sweet and wicked stuff that built the world we now and seems to be also destroying....one day at a time...well not so fond of the world&civilization destruction stuff..the building of everything from the first alloyed materials( including alloyed humans and other critters), to the modern everything we have today.but the old stuff is more interesting to me.thats the stuff that got us hear slowly and steady and a few spurts hear and there of revelation and reinvention. it seems now days true craftsmanship is about exstink in somany areas. but there still are some very talented craftsmen out there...somewhere. I wish I still had it.but I know I don't.well in some areas I do.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jul 6, 2019)

----------


## Jon

FBI fingerprint storage warehouse. 1944.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## marksbug

and now days... the size of a phone..... a hackers delight

----------


## Toolmaker51

Oh, I thought he meant dames. . .

----------


## VinnieL

And the amount of fingerprints has only increased exponentially since then. My understanding is that they have many buildings full of them now, and the civillian and military prints have been separated. The prints were all classified in those days and filed using "The Henry System," which was a a very involved formula for classification. Nowadays fingerprints are classified using the NCIC method with 2 letters or a 2 digit number for each print. I was trained classification and how to search for prints but it has been too many years ago now to remember all of it. I did the darkroom work making all the enlargements for court testimony etc.

----------


## Ralphxyz

Where did the phrase "****load" of dimes or whatever come from?

Ralph

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Where did the phrase "****load" of dimes or whatever come from?
> 
> Ralph



IDK, cause pennies sound cheap? Far as quantity goes, anybody whose stabled just a couple farm animals find out quick how much collects overnight.
Not same topic, but related. I partnered with some horse owners long ago. Despite they'd been owners for decades, an afternoons work would disappear by the next day after work, causing them dismay. Like repairing fences where horses had cribbed [nervous chewing on fence wood] for example. 
As explanation, telling the girls how it be so extensive. "They have ALL day!"

----------


## ranald

> and now days... the size of a phone..... a hackers delight



I was thinking a USB.

----------


## ranald

> Oh, I thought he meant dames. . .



With empty pockets, I guess he had slim pickins.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jul 9, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Employees on roller-skates tend to a Volkswagen at a gas station in Deidesheim, Germany -- 1954



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 11, 2019),

Seedtick (Jul 10, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 10, 2019),

volodar (Jul 10, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

IIRC this is what we also had; not filling stations but 'Service Stations'. Washing window glass, checking out tires, oil, coolant, drivers daughter. . .

----------


## Jon

This is one of my all-time favorite pics in this thread. The car, the gas pumps, the sunroof, the skates, the hats, the haircuts, the horse, the barrel, the doorway. Even if they staged it all (lots of these work crew pics are staged) - good for them, they nailed it.

----------


## Jon

Awaiting their turn at the cotton gin. Greenville, Texas. Early 1900s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (Jul 11, 2019)

----------


## Ronj

Looking at the sign, I wonder if this company could be part of the Mobil gas that we use to know.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jul 11, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Looking at the sign, I wonder if this company could be part of the Mobil gas that we use to know.



Has to be, same logo, just spelled different in foreign markets. But how does a economy car like a VW warrant high octane fuel?

----------


## hemmjo

> But how does a economy car like a VW warrant high octane fuel?



It is like ordering a medium drink at a fast food place, they don't have small size. The "Super"
is probably the low octane and the high octane is probably "Super Duper", "Super Xtra", or some such meaningless iteration of fancy name.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jul 11, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

re hemmjo's note on octane. 
It's been a l-o-n-g time since [motorcycling] octane was considered during fuel purchase. No distracting female attendants either.

----------


## Frank S

> Has to be, same logo, just spelled different in foreign markets. But how does a economy car like a VW warrant high octane fuel?



While stationed in Germany in the 70's I ran a 63 VW with a 1200 cc engine on a dirt track. Most guys would steal the 78octane MOGAS out of the jeeps and other vehicles to run in their cars. My engine was honed polished balanced and tweaked everyway possible and still remain basically a stock engine. And the way I looked at it why steal gas out of a jeep when I had a 1200 gallon tanker full of AVGAS. We were allowed a certain percentage of shrinkage monthly due to evaporation so 10 gallons here or there never showed up unlike when the col's driver would run out of gas while driving the Post commander around. AV Gas was aviation grade gasoline 120 Octane all of the tweaking we had done to the engine would nearly double the hp over the other guys but a 50/50 mix of AV- Gas and the 92 octane stuff we bought at the local German petrol station really made the thing pop. When we would win against the largest class of engines though would be cause for contesting our engine. they would drain out some gas and see that it was red so they thought it was just because we spent money for our gas instead of the bluish green MO gas so many were using. 
So yes I can see running super in a VW they ran better and got fetter fuel millage.
Just like now I will only run Premium in all of my small engines and my old 8n tractor it doesn't do much for the old tractor but sure helps the carburetors last longer in the small engines. With the exception of my chain saws in those I will only run that $31.00 a gallon fully stabilized properly mixed 2 cycle fuel

----------


## Jon

> Transporting logs in Northern Michigan 1908.



I think this was somewhat of a stunt, maybe like the early 1900s version of hamming it up for Instagram. Right?

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 16, 2019),

high-side (Jul 20, 2019),

jackhoying (Jul 15, 2019),

MeJasonT (Jul 15, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 15, 2019)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Mayebe it was a rare stand of North American Balsa Trees  :Wink:

----------

baja (Jul 16, 2019),

Beserkleyboy (Jul 15, 2019)

----------


## jackhoying

I have my doubts that two horses could move that load! Might of loaded it that big just for the photo op.
My Dad remembered loading logs with horses back in the 30s. (rolled on to the wagon using ramps with ropes going over the trailer) He said a local hauler had a pair of horses that were so well trained, the owner could have them easily move the log 1/2 an inch if needed.

----------


## Jon

> Mayebe it was a rare stand of North American Balsa Trees



Good one! We've seen that trick before:



Your browser does not support the video tag.

----------


## Frank S

:ROFL:  Even it is were balsa if those poor animals ever got that sled moving they better never slow down because it would run them over.

----------


## Ralphxyz

It took a lot of man power to load those logs that high.

Judging the way that log hits the ground it is not light weight at all!

Ralph

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

That is a stack of awesome looking board stock! I wish I had 1 or 2 of those to take to the sawmill!

----------

MeJasonT (Jul 15, 2019)

----------


## MeJasonT

It would have been one huge selfi, would the millennial's be prepared to stand for a five minute exposure on old photographic plates - I think not.

----------

high-side (Jul 20, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 15, 2019)

----------


## marksbug

there was plenty of trick photos from the beginninnning of tyme.....like heyzus walking on watter or that guy moseying through the reed sea as he farted it. my views may not be the same as yours.dosent mean there not right. 
you ever see a sled with 90 degree ends.....not I think somebody was pulling somebodys wet leg.

----------

MeJasonT (Jul 15, 2019),

volodar (Jul 15, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> It would have been one huge selfi, would the millennial's be prepared to stand for a five minute exposure on old photographic plates - I think not.



OMG, careful MejasonT, we now have a rabid and easily offended millennial lurking about!

In other news, I ran across this and thought of your signature which always gives this reader a chuckle. The other Continentals will like it too....

----------


## Toolmaker51

Double post. Quantum leap? Time travel? Fat fingers, yeah probably.

----------


## marksbug

I do in fact have a time machine. but I dont let any body else mess with it.( I have trust issues,Ive seen a lot of history being made) look at the end of those logs..not quite right. nothing with that pic is quite right. it could of just been oh never mind. not worth the time it would take to go back and see.I have better things to see and doo.

----------


## Ronj

I dont think these men would put that much work in a stunt back then. Look how the chains are placed on that load. More than one team of horses might be needed for this load, but the sled is on snow. You would probably be surprised what a horse or mule can move.

----------


## suther51

Stunt or not, not uncommon. Thought I had seen several similar pictures.
https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sb...DBmOdbCDAaVzM:

Eric

----------

Jon (Jul 15, 2019)

----------


## MeJasonT

I have seen similar picture before come to think of it. I still think off shot their are more horses ready to hook up. compacted snow with a light covering is indeed an easy slip surface, ie a deliberately made road way, Soft snow no. also the time taken to load the logs would result in the sled effectively freezing to the ground so power would be required to create hat initial inertia required to move such a load. as Jon has already shown in a previous post the wood could be Balsa.
Don't know about horses but i'm all over the place trying to carry an 8'x4' inch ply sheet.
The Millennial snow flake (see how i did that, we now call millennial's snow flakes) may be correct in the assumption that the image is either fake or a stunt. I'm sure its possible to do such things in cyber world, so why the doubt.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jul 16, 2019)

----------


## RonStrand

I am over 70 years old, and I have several pictures similar to these from the woods of Minnesota. The horses had special shoes with spikes like football shoes. A horse power rating has nothing to do with a real horse. Ours weighed about 1200 lbs each and could out-pull a small tractor. Loads like this were harder to load than move. Also, my first job was to take buckets of water and poor it along the runner path so it pulled easier. As I said, not that unusual.

----------

MeJasonT (Jul 16, 2019)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Yep, no way that was a real photo of a real event. Also, I don't believe I've ever seen any photos, trick or otherwise, of "heyzus walking on watter or that guy moseying through the reed sea as he farted it" - (marksbug). Those weren't actual photos in between the pages of that bible.

----------

volodar (Jul 17, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

I am constantly amazed at the things our forefathers, and foremothers were able to accomplish. Things had to be done, they figured out how to do them. 

Unfortunately, we need to view some of the things we see today with a bit of skepticism. However, also have to be sure not to diminish what they were able to do, just because we cannot comprehend how hard they worked.

----------

12bolts (Jul 17, 2019),

Rikk (Jul 17, 2019)

----------


## MeJasonT

I have it on good authority that these photos are genuine. President Trump has said that they are not fake news but are the realest ever, he personally knows those people in the photos.

----------

volodar (Jul 17, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

That is White Pine not Balsa, The Ann River Logging Co.

----------

MeJasonT (Jul 17, 2019)

----------


## MeJasonT

Hey Ralph
That's an impressive old photo

----------


## Ralphxyz

All of them have been impressive!

----------


## Frank S

> That is White Pine not Balsa, The Ann River Logging Co.



Could just as easily been northern white cedar only 2.33lbs per board foot or 28lbs per cubic foot

----------


## Ronj

> Could just as easily been northern white cedar only 2.33lbs per board foot or 28lbs per cubic foot



I agree with you and Balsa grows in Central and South America.

----------


## Ralphxyz

Frank if you read the post about the Ann River Logging Co it said they logged "white pine" in Minnesota. Not northern white cedar.

Ralph

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I am constantly amazed at the things our forefathers, and foremothers were able to accomplish. Things had to be done, they figured out how to do them. 
> 
> Unfortunately, we need to view some of the things we see today with a bit of skepticism. However, also have to be sure not to diminish what they were able to do, just because we cannot comprehend how hard they worked.



Hear Hear. That precisely is the case. Our imaginations are hampered somewhat, analyzing what means in the past accomplished different tasks. Egyptian pyramids a perfect example, though I know the most creative, as yet unheralded method.
They didn't build them per se; they sculpted them and hauled off excess sand.

----------


## Frank S

> Frank if you read the post about the Ann River Logging Co it said they logged "white pine" in Minnesota. Not northern white cedar.
> 
> Ralph



only a max of .6 lbs heavier per bf. or 8lbs per cf. but if dead they could have been lighter only 26Lbs per cf.
Hickory and white oak are what loggers nightmares are made of at 5.25 lb bf or 63 lb cf

----------


## MeJasonT

Good job its not English Oak or Holly - they are a real pain to split with an axe.
I still think you could stack 70 trees of balsa and tow it easier than white cedar (tugging at Ralph's leg).

On a more serious note, the next couple of generations are not really going to leave much of a legacy (good word). The information technology age or legacy software and architecture has all but been superseded the only thing you could honestly say is we all still have computers and the internet. The surge to build faster computers has slowed down to a snails pace 64 bit has been around now for 18 years - no 128 bit desktop PCs yet (if you ignore Coda and super fast video cards which now share the processing load of the main processor). Can we actually do any more on a PC than we used to - mine is definitely getting slower with at least 3 updates from Fairysoft every two days. 

Digital consumption is going to be the addiction of the future if its not already, apparently we all want new tech and we are feeding the Microsoft and Apple frenzy - no we are just too stupid to stop buying crap. I'm hoping 'im amongst friends here, i want to spend life looking at old images of mans achievements and building tools, not trying to understand the far end of a fart about my mobile phone - can i phone people on it, when i say hello does it talk back to me, great that's all i want from a phone.

We look at Apollo and the moon landings the tech in that rocket (thanks to Turin and Babage for creating computers) and realise that it could all have been run on a 1990s WEP Phone (has internet). We now have PLC's running factory automation and robotics which barely run at more than 10% of their capacity. The Apollo Design and construction is a thing to be admired - if indeed it actually went to the moon (wait for it, bound to get a bite).

I have just started to build a furnace and very quickly learning a whole heap of stuff, from the past i might add. Things like the terms and techniques used to cast. When you look at these old photos at machine castings etc. you realise what an achievement our forefathers made, with limited resources and no chance of making a mistake they were making castings two or three story's high. Things like the Titanic's engine castings or the A frames holding the props.

I can honestly say AI and software written today will be gone in ten years time and very few programmers will have had even the smallest of mentions as being a great inventor. We might hark back to the old photos but the legacy of them is the hopes ambitions and imagination of generations which has stood the test of time and encouraged many of us to choose a thankless, underpaid and sometimes impossible career in engineering. We are still Pioneers working against all the odds.

At least three times a year I end up referring to books in my library on Victorian mechanisms, Its kind of like music being made up of notes, mechanisms also have a modular construct which goes back to the very days these old photos represent.

In the next 10 years every one will be using their sub conscious to operate there home via an implanted chip, walk the dog without even leaving the house and work even harder from home outside of paid work hours. That's until there is a massive power cut, the greens have their way and switch of all consumption or it becomes so expensive for every one to pay and live in an AI future that only the rich can afford it - the rest of us will end up terminated (pun intended).

The skills shortage is starting to show the difference between those from the past with skills that can make things and the "O Beast" kids stuck on their computers.
If the consumers stop being interested in frivolous technology just so that they can switch on a light without leaving their chair, then this stupidity will continue.
Living off grid and harking back to the good old days is good, gentlemen don't feel old - upskilling and maintaining skills is still the future.

Even if Ralph still has a box filled with airbrushed and digitally altered photos from the 1880's still in their original doctored state, as if that were even possible. lol.

Still cant get over a recent image I saw of Neil Armstrong's space boot foot print and the ones apparently left on the moon, he must have used is spare pare that day - both were very different ?

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jul 18, 2019)

----------


## marksbug

I dont know if armstrong ever set foot on the moon.if he did I really doubt it was the first time we were told it was. but i do agree we did get there.

----------


## Jon

Longer side discussions are perfectly acceptable, as long as they are placed in the Off Topic subforum. Honestly I can't even tell if you guys are joking about moon landing criticism.




> Two-way postage stamp perforating machine at the Bureau of Engraving and Printing 1938. Washington, D.C.



Hats for airborne dust?

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 19, 2019),

Seedtick (Jul 18, 2019)

----------


## marksbug

more like the basement duty hats for the dunces...yes I see the windows. just kidding.we all have jobs to do and THEY are ALL important jobs.

----------


## 12bolts

Thats what Im thinking



> Hats for airborne dust?



Maybe the original disposable paper hat?

----------


## MeJasonT

> Longer side discussions are perfectly acceptable, as long as they are placed in the Off Topic subforum. Honestly I can't even tell if you guys are joking about moon landing criticism.



Hey Jon
this going off topic thing - Off topic subform, what are you on about, never heard of it.
Staying on topic of vintage photographs led to the criticism of the legitimacy of the log stack photos and how our forefathers did miraculous things in the name of progress. I mentioned how the younger generations are not going to be creative as previous generations as the concentration is now more broadly based on throw away software and technology - Take for example i posted a picture of a modern day pc it would simply look like any other but if i posted a picture of colossus it would indeed be a vintage photograph of notoriety. As it is the 50th Anniversary of the moon landing i mentioned the pure genius of sending man into space based on a Z80 zilog processor (in a round about way). Very much on topic of appreciating the the achievements of our forefathers/past generations.
The moon landing images alone are a matter for discussion as to their accuracy, the very least a good way of winding up buzz who has a habit of beating up anyone who questions him on the legitimacy of the landings.

Come on get on topic and up to speed. lol 
Like ThisOldTony its only in my later years that i have discovered my Asperger's. My Tourette's usually kicks in when i get bored or people are talking crap, judging by the number of people that swear at me they must have it as well.

----------


## IAMSatisfied

FDR was president at the time... maybe it made everyone feel like dunces, and the hats are representative of the feeling? Those floral dresses though, they must have been all the rage!

----------


## Frank S

You guys hadn't thought the paper hat thing through. Those stamp sheets have thousands of perforations to outline the stamps. each chad is less than a 1/16" diameter. During the coarse of a day millions if not billions of chads would be produced, this would be like glitter being attracted to static electricity. The hats would be a valuable part of their kit.
Any one who has painted with metal flake or done popcorn ceilings knows all too well what happens
The same thing about the floral dresses , to hide the chad swarth

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

It appears to me this is a stamp rolling machine. The woman on the left is feeding sheets into the machine, they're slit into strips, the woman on the right is monitoring (as it says on the shut-off in front of her) and likely ejecting the rolls when complete. Frank S is right though. If you look on the floor right under the machine frame and the lower right hand corner it's just piles of chads. There seems to be a ghost at the machine too... there are two sets of legs in the left side of the image but there only seems to be one woman. . . Probably just another faked photo.

----------


## hemmjo

> ... There seems to be a ghost at the machine too... there are two sets of legs in the left side of the image but there only seems to be one woman. . .



I believe there are 4 women in the photo. 2 on the right and 2 on the left. The "phantom" legs belong to a woman that is hidden behind the woman in the foreground. When I first looked at the photo, I would have bet you were were only two women. Good thing I don't bet very often.

----------


## swanee

Swanee here, this is my first post so please advise if I'm off track in some way. I printed this photo this morning and took it to the president of our company. We are trying to be certain that it is a machine our company built and what model. The Company I work for had a virtual lock on equipment used to perforate sheets of US postal stamps and personal checks in that time period. Any further information on the photograph from your end would be appreciated and I will follow from my end with the results from our company. Thanks

Used the zoom function to see the badge on the machine that says "Crown Cork and Seal" not who I work for but a chance to challenge the boss

----------


## Jon

> Native Hawaiian girls packing pineapple into cans. 1928.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 21, 2019),

Seedtick (Jul 20, 2019)

----------


## 12bolts

Pardon my ignorance, and no offense intended if Im wrong but these girls look more Asian than Polynesian?

----------


## Beserkleyboy

12 bolts, I agree. Hawaiian royalty imported large numbers of Japanese in the mid-late 1800s to work the cane fields and pineapple plantations. By 1920, 43% of Hawaii's population was Japanese! Now around 16 %. Of course, back then, they would probably not have intermarried; now the mix of Asian, Polynesian and Anglo backgrounds makes for a very diverse ethnic makeup. My mum had a unit in West Maui that my sister now has. We go every other year for 3 weeks...I know, don't we ever get bored with it...nah...cheers
Jim in Sunny South Coast NSW AUS

----------


## Jon

> Seattle Central Library's Bindery in 1910.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 21, 2019),

Seedtick (Jul 20, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 21, 2019)

----------


## skibo

To bad books are being replaced by the computer with instant information and pictures, but I still love a good book as I sit here on a computer looking at these picture's!

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jul 21, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Books might subside, but I can't see full replacement. Like what a PITA Machinery's Handbook or Marks' Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers would be online...
Not against change, when benefit is seen by the user. There aren't good substitutes for utility.

----------


## Frank S

> Books might subside, but I can't see full replacement. Like what a PITA Machinery's Handbook or Marks' Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers would be online...
> Not against change, when benefit is seen by the user. There aren't good substitutes for utility.



The book I miss is my Smolleys tables of Parallel Tables of Logarithms and Squares, Angles and Logarithmic Functions, Corresponding to Given Bevels, and Other Tables for Engineers, Architects, Etc

----------


## Frank S

Just ordered a replacement for my Marks' Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers yet another part of my library that I lost when I left Q8 
I just now found 3 on ebay for 19.95 same edition as the one I had

----------


## mklotz

> There aren't good substitutes for utility.



I think we should make that "quote of the month".

----------

Beserkleyboy (Jul 22, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 21, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Frank S; when I get leads on reference material, like to see what turns up. In grand internet fashion [and a cool PJs trick] I copy/ pasted your "Smolley's Tables......" to see price ranges. They start at less than $4 bucks. If you follow the google "Did You Mean" of correct spelling with one 'L', pricing doubles. YMMV!

PJs gave me a site called fatfingers that compiles oft-misspelled terms; where sellers don't get bids because of t-t-typos. 
http://www.fatfingers.co.uk/default.aspx A good element, that site is UK, so things like color vs colour get included.

Internet selling has different levels of sophistication; Amazon & Ebay might top the list. Somewhere lower but easier with local results my favorite is craigslist. But the funniest and highest rate of misspells [or illiteracy] is OfferUp. Willing to bet their crowd is farking phones, while other sites attract users with real keyboards.

2006 or so, I wanted a proportioning divider to help me scale items from photos at work. Brand new they run $180-200, used maybe $80~. I played with spelling and found mine for $11.
Cha-ching.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I think we should make that "quote of the month".



Chances of that being so are extremely high, provided Marv is still pursuing coronation. . .

----------


## Frank S

> Chances of that being so are extremely high, provided Marv is still pursuing coronation. . .



I think we should make that "quote of the month"
I would vote for it

----------


## Frank S

When it comes to things on Craig's list if the seller doesn't think enough about his wares to include a viable way to contact him in order for me to try and make heads or tails of what he is selling I just pass it b y as something I might have bought, but won't. Another is the serious inquiries only, if you can not or are unwilling to describe what you have how am I to know if I am going to be serious or not.
I run into miss or ill described things on Ebay all the time as well. and have never ordered any thing from Amazon

----------


## mklotz

> Chances of that being so are extremely high, provided Marv is still pursuing coronation. . .



Yes, still pursuing but I'm afraid I will have to pull a Napoleon and snatch the crown from the emcee and place it (jauntily, to be sure) on my own head.

Meanwhile, work on the list of those to be incarcerated after my accession proceeds apace; volume 19 (C-D) is almost finished.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jul 29, 2019)

----------


## jackhoying

My wife works at a printing company and they still do work like this. Mainly rebinding textbooks with a few page changes or a new chapter, along with new covers. Often, they will have a dozen or more skids full of identical books to do. It keeps a lot of employees busy. This photo would look good in their shop!

----------


## bruce.desertrat

"He's got them on the list
He's got them on the list
And then none of them be missed
And none of them be missed" 

 :ROFL:

----------


## Frank S

all I want to know is which list I might wind up on

----------


## mklotz

> "He's got them on the list
> He's got them on the list
> And then none of them be missed
> And none of them be missed"



Indeed...

As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-

----------


## Jon

> Cowlair's Forge, Glasgow. 1914.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (Jul 23, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Continental Salt Works, San Francisco Bay, 1906.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jul 29, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Factory workers put together parts for the RCA Victor black and white televisions on the assembly line in the RCA Camden (NJ) plant, circa 1946.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 27, 2019),

Seedtick (Jul 26, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Perhaps not a work crew per se, but close enough for this beautiful photograph.




> Members of the Boulder City Consulting Board and other officials standing in a section of pipe over the Hoover Dam, 1935.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

MeJasonT (Jul 31, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

> Perhaps not a work crew per se, but close enough for this beautiful photograph.
> 
> 
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg



The one guy looks a bit squeamish at being photographed inside of a 36ft diameter section of pipe suspended over the canyon by a couple of cables attached to a winch which is also suspended by a series of cables anchored into the rock faces of the canyon.

----------


## Toolmaker51

Note the wire rope suspending pipe section. Judging by the men's heads, at least 4" diameter. 
My very first exposure to industry happened at Hoover Dam, way down in the turbine room, also where I saw my first serious lathe. Probably Monarch, American Tool Works, or Lodge & Shipley. 
I imagine it is still there and operative. A good case for preventative and regular maintenance; they sure won't get another one down there.

----------

MeJasonT (Jul 31, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

> Note the wire rope suspending pipe section. Judging by the men's heads, at least 4" diameter. 
> My very first exposure to industry happened at Hoover Dam, way down in the turbine room, also where I saw my first serious lathe. Probably Monarch, American Tool Works, or Lodge & Shipley. 
> I imagine it is still there and operative. A good case for preventative and regular maintenance; they sure won't get another one down there.



You brought up an interesting point about the machines in the bowels of the Hoover dam. A lot of forethought and planning went into the construction of that dam much of it done on the fly so to speak. So many thousands of cubic yards of concrete being poured each and every day on a nonstop basis that cooling tubes and vapor evacuation systems had to be cast in place otherwise the concrete would have heated to the point that it would be impossible for it to ever stabilize and the curing process would begin and prevent it from cracking or even worst exploding, it is believed that some areas will not fully cure for another 100 years

----------

MeJasonT (Jul 31, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 28, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Poulterer, Stranraer, Scotland. Late 1800s.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 30, 2019),

Seedtick (Jul 29, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Thread entry #880 "The Continental Salt Works" shot; last known example of printing photographic records on non-archival grade kitchen paper towels.

----------


## MeJasonT

Poulterer, Stranraer, Scotland. Late 1800s. #886

The big thing around us at the present time is every farmer and wannabe landed gentry having a Pheasant shoot (sport).
every Sunday during the season there shoot resembles this rack of birds, they go out and shoot hundreds of birds for the privilege of taking a brace home - 2 birds. All for the grand total of £2000 per shoot. That makes each of the two birds they are allowed to keep £1000 each. Would you guys pay that for a turkey on a turkey shoot. All the other birds are just dumped or left to rot. When you look at the UK's ban on fox hunting you get a fair idea why the public get pea-ed off with the wanabe Elite. There are four shoots within 10 miles of us, one is ran by my brother and nephew - pillocks.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jul 30, 2019),

volodar (Aug 1, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

> Poulterer, Stranraer, Scotland. Late 1800s. #886
> 
> The big thing around us at the present time is every farmer and wannabe landed gentry having a Pheasant shoot (sport).
> every Sunday during the season there shoot resembles this rack of birds, they go out and shoot hundreds of birds for the privilege of taking a brace home - 2 birds. All for the grand total of £2000 per shoot. That makes each of the two birds they are allowed to keep £1000 each. Would you guys pay that for a turkey on a turkey shoot. All the other birds are just dumped or left to rot. When you look at the UK's ban on fox hunting you get a fair idea why the public get pea-ed off with the wanabe Elite. There are four shoots within 10 miles of us, one is ran by my brother and nephew - pillocks.



I have a strict rule against sport harvesting for the pure pleasure of expending a projectile down range. the 1000 per bird may be excessive but what is obscene is leaving a kill to rot when said harvest should be processed for consumption of someone less fortunate or has no willingness to spend that kind of money for a meal of such delectable flavor when properly prepared.
I don't go to Turkey shoot either simply because I have no willingness to show off my shooting skills or lack there of if that be the case. I also don't participate in skeet shooting events or plinking at targets in competitions. There is only going to be one reason for the barrel of any of my weapons to be pointed or aimed at anything in public. And that would be for self-preservation. All other rounds expended by me are done on my own property and usually not for the mere plinking at some target other than to maintain my skill set, even then I only require firing a few rounds if I am still good I quit then and there if I am bad then I need to fire more until I get good again if I can.

----------

MeJasonT (Jul 31, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Scheduled maintenance on a three-axle railway coach in Zürich, Switzerland, 1930.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...h_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 31, 2019),

Seedtick (Jul 31, 2019),

volodar (Aug 1, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Poulterer, Stranraer, Scotland. Late 1800s. #886
> 
> The big thing around us at the present time is every farmer and wannabe landed gentry having a Pheasant shoot (sport).
> every Sunday during the season there shoot resembles this rack of birds, they go out and shoot hundreds of birds for the privilege of taking a brace home - 2 birds. All for the grand total of £2000 per shoot. That makes each of the two birds they are allowed to keep £1000 each. Would you guys pay that for a turkey on a turkey shoot. All the other birds are just dumped or left to rot. When you look at the UK's ban on fox hunting you get a fair idea why the public get pea-ed off with the wanabe Elite. There are four shoots within 10 miles of us, one is ran by my brother and nephew - pillocks.



Here, turkey hunting has a large following. They are large wary birds yet have a small area for best shot placement. Some participants spend plenty on gear but they're mostly durable for few seasons. Besides the $25 some states get for a license, a handful of shells, army surplus camouflage and a couple hours leaning against a tree. . .After deer, turkey is second most popular game [#1 deer] in most regions. They are widespread.

Seems MeJasonT also is describing driven hunts, where stops and beaters force game toward a line of shooters. He's right, that ain't hunting. Hunting is when your dog sees you packing requisites and he starts hopping around with anticipation. . .or he just likes that squeeze bottle of watered down honey!

----------

MeJasonT (Jul 31, 2019)

----------


## marksbug

when I want to shoot turkey I go to wallmart. then I look at the turkey and say awe shoot! just look at that price this week....then either miss or grab the one I want. I prefer the ones that have been smoking for a while they are easyer to catch in the netting they have got wound up in. it seem much easyer this way and cheeper too, along with no ticks&lime dezeze. I can also grab a frozen Margarita and some oil filters & oil while im there for the wifes car, and of coarse some extremely soft toilet paper for my pampered ass.

----------

volodar (Aug 1, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

> when I want to shoot turkey I go to wallmart. then I look at the turkey and say awe shoot! just look at that price this week....then either miss or grab the one I want. I prefer the ones that have been smoking for a while they are easyer to catch in the netting they have got wound up in. it seem much easyer this way and cheeper too, along with no ticks&lime dezeze. I can also grab a frozen Margarita and some oil filters & oil while im there for the wifes car, and of coarse some extremely soft toilet paper for my pampered ass.



There is a world of difference in the taste and flavor between wild Turkey (not that kind of wild turkey although it does have its own distinct flavor and taste) and that of domestic turkey raised in huge barns jammed together so tight they barely have enough room to move around, fed and watered from automatic troughs. never allowed outside for fear it may rain which would cause them to look skyward and drown they are production line harvested de feathered cleaned and processed almost never needing to be handled by human hands, and those of the wild variety who live sometimes in large flocks but forage singularly for grubs insects nuts berries and grasses who thrive in the forested or wooded areas with thick under brush have developed enough sense not to stare at the sky when it rains so water cannot run in their nose openings and drown. are adapt at camouflage to hide from predators or can run or fly Yes Fly away when threatened, due to their developed muscle tone and lower body fat ratio the meat can even be sliced off into steaks then grilled or cut into long strips seasoned and dried to make jerky or simply smoked in a smoker or baked in an oven the same as their unfortunate distant cousins the domestic birds.
these wild turkeys are not harvested in a staged turkey shoot where the birds are staked out and cannot evade the emanate danger of #4 or 6 shot being blasted their way. You have to go out and like said hide behind a tree or create some kind of camouflaged blind from available ground cover and hope you located yourself near a game trail they frequent or actually walk through the woods scouring the underbrush in search of them. making it a 50/50 chance between hunter and hunted.

----------


## Jon

> Barque _Kings County_ being stripped, caulked, and re-coppered at Hobarts Whart, Summerville, Nova Scotia, 1909.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

12bolts (Aug 1, 2019),

baja (Aug 1, 2019),

high-side (Aug 3, 2019),

Miloslav (Aug 1, 2019),

Seedtick (Aug 1, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

My first thought was, "how did they get that ship up there), then I remembered Nova Scotia has huge tides. It is amazing how the area looks so dry around the ship.

----------

Jon (Aug 1, 2019)

----------


## volodar

Re 'railroad car' photo: I like the simple jack near bottom left - have a bunch of similar but square based, 'some kind of alloy' stands from metal dumpster. 5/8"-11 threaded rod & nut added. Surprised by the steepness of the pictured thread. Remarkable that a device so simple and logical will lift a corner/side/end of a boxcar, if indeed that's how it could have been used. Ramp, wedge, screw - principles wonderful and indispensable.

----------


## NeiljohnUK

The big 'estate' shoots often have contracts to supply game dealers, once the guests and estate staff have had their choice, these dealers sell to top restaurants and other retail outlets.  
The few not 'picked-up' rarely get a chance to rot as natural 'recycling' by scavengers is quite effective, it's also an important food source that has allowed the reintroduced Red Kite the thrive in some areas. 
The bigger issue is the breed to shoot industry that releases huge numbers of introduced species that cause other problems, Pheasant's cause a number of road traffic accidents and deer park escapee introduced deer are estimated to cause 20 human road deaths in the UK annually.

----------


## NeiljohnUK

Of wooden ships and iron men...
Then iron ships and wooden men...
Now plastic ships and...

----------


## Jon

Installing a gas line in Boston in 1894.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Ralphxyz

and probable still in use.

----------


## ranald

> and probable still in use.



My friend's fiance was blown up, killed, when working on an old one in Brisbane in early 70's. Interesting how minerals, moisture & nature affects those unseen things underground. I am amazed that in some movies where coffins are exumed and are in perfect condition after many years, but all that I saw were disintegrating even after 3 months (the earlist we are allowed to complete that matter). My gear rusts/rots before my eyes here but at a farm (20Ks away) where I worked, timber (lumber) could be left out in the weather & implements remained surface rust-free much much longer.

----------


## hemmjo

> ..... Interesting how minerals, moisture & nature affects those unseen things underground.



I have a friend who was clearing come land on an old farm. It had a large barn, all of the timbers were rotten, not worth salvaging. Long story shorted they burned that barn. At the end of the day, they had a large pile of hot ashes, galvanized roofing etc. They used a bulldozer to push the hot ashes into a large hole they had prepared ahead of time. Each day for a while they would turn the ashes with a large track-hoe. 

After a month or so, they pulled all of the metal roofing out to take to recycling. The recycle center would not accept the metal. Turned out while in the ground with the hot ashes, it had become radioactive enough to trigger their Geiger counter. They told him to bring it back in a year as it would probably be safe enough for them to accept.

They told him that is happens a lot with metal they get that has been under ground for a length of time.

I had never heard of such a thing.

----------


## Frank S

> I have a friend who was clearing come land on an old farm. It had a large barn, all of the timbers were rotten, not worth salvaging. Long story shorted they burned that barn. At the end of the day, they had a large pile of hot ashes, galvanized roofing etc. They used a bulldozer to push the hot ashes into a large hole they had prepared ahead of time. Each day for a while they would turn the ashes with a large track-hoe. 
> 
> After a month or so, they pulled all of the metal roofing out to take to recycling. The recycle center would not accept the metal. Turned out while in the ground with the hot ashes, it had become radioactive enough to trigger their Geiger counter. They told him to bring it back in a year as it would probably be safe enough for them to accept.
> 
> They told him that is happens a lot with metal they get that has been under ground for a length of time.
> 
> I had never heard of such a thing.



You got to be careful of them Geiger's they can be nasty little varmints 
I knew a guy who had a whole load of used oilfield pipe rejected at a salvage center because of the stray radiation. Only it wasn't the pipe it was his trailer that was hot. the large tub demolition trailer had been used to haul demolished buildings before he bought it there was no telling what where or when it had been filled with materials active enough to be absorbed by the steel of the trailer.

----------


## Jon

> The Operations Room at RAF Fighter Command's No. 10 Group Headquarters, Rudloe Manor (RAF Box), Wiltshire, showing WAAF plotters and duty officers at work, 1943.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Aug 6, 2019),

Seedtick (Aug 5, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

RAF? those look like boats none of them are over land.

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Now I know where the stereotype for all movie and TV high ranking officers comes from! The guy at top far right and guy top 3rd from the left. I've seen both of those guys in a dozen movies!

----------


## 12bolts

Radar intercepts are reported to the WAAF's the girls with the sticks and they move the models around on the map to represent reported positions of enemy aircraft. Other models representing flights of allied aircraft are also reported and moved into position to intercept the enemy aircraft.



> RAF? those look like boats none of them are over land.



If you look at the bottom right of the image you can see the models over both water and land

----------


## Jon

> Knocking out the chocks for a ship launch, Sunderland, UK, 1954.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Aug 10, 2019),

high-side (Aug 10, 2019),

olderdan (Aug 9, 2019),

Seedtick (Aug 9, 2019),

Tule (Aug 10, 2019)

----------


## olderdan

That does not look like a place I would want to be, trip hazards everywhere and tonnes above your head, but I am sure they knew what they were doing.

----------


## 12bolts

That chain in the foreground is to catch the ship so it doesnt float away. You would want to be sure the links your standing on dont catch a foot before you can step away

----------

Toolmaker51 (Aug 10, 2019)

----------


## mklotz

Is it to "catch" the ship or to act as a brake to slow the ship as it slides into the water?

From what I've seen in videos it seems to be the latter rather than the former. With a very heavy ship, I would think that a "catch" would simply tear the chain anchor point out of the ship or the dock when the chain went taut. OTOH, a slowly moving ship could be restrained by a stretchy tether such as heavy rope.

In this video of the launching of the _Queen Mary_...




the use of drag chains to slow the ship is mentioned at approximately 3:45 minutes into the video.

----------

baja (Aug 13, 2019),

high-side (Aug 12, 2019),

volodar (Aug 10, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Pouring concrete, Vancouver, 1931.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Aug 13, 2019),

high-side (Aug 12, 2019),

jackhoying (Aug 10, 2019),

Seedtick (Aug 12, 2019)

----------


## 12bolts

Listen to what the commentator says, "The enormous drag chains take up the strain and brake the momentum of the launch", At 3:59 - 4:03 you even see the chains pull tight

----------


## ranald

#913 bit like watching a dragline chain get taught: I was very fit early 70s, and couldn't lift one link allbeit attached to a whole chain. What a Strain also on the restrainers!? I could hold that. LOL

----------


## Toolmaker51

She might have aged some, but touring the Queen Mary envelopes one with an indescribable sense of wonder; when design, engineering, craftsmanship converge. Once again, prime example achieved with nothing but paper, ink and endless calculations, and sufficient reliable capital equipment.

----------


## Ralphxyz

What are those 3 yard cement mixers?

----------


## mklotz

> She might have aged some, but touring the Queen Mary envelopes one with an indescribable sense of wonder; when design, engineering, craftsmanship converge. Once again, prime example achieved with nothing but paper, ink and endless calculations, and sufficient reliable capital equipment.



The story surrounding the naming of the ship has always made me smile. This excerpt from the Wikipedia article on the ship recounts it succinctly...

Legend has it that Cunard intended to name the ship Victoria, in keeping with company tradition of giving its ships names ending in "ia", but when company representatives asked the king's permission to name the ocean liner after Britain's "greatest queen", he said his wife, Mary of Teck, would be delighted. And so, the legend goes, the delegation had of course no other choice but to report that No. 534 would be called Queen Mary.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Aug 11, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> The story surrounding the naming of the ship has always made me smile. This excerpt from the Wikipedia article on the ship recounts it succinctly...
> 
> Legend has it that Cunard intended to name the ship Victoria, in keeping with company tradition of giving its ships names ending in "ia", but when company representatives asked the king's permission to name the ocean liner after Britain's "greatest queen", he said his wife, Mary of Teck, would be delighted. And so, the legend goes, the delegation had of course no other choice but to report that No. 534 would be called Queen Mary.



Yes. That's smile worthy. 
Illustrates one's wishes need to be clear for desired results from other parties. 

PS Wikipedia offers good reads on Victoria, Mary, and Elizabeth. Someday _we'll_ get a female of that standard for nomination to president; so far none have possessed such factors. Put nicely, this crop manages the direct opposites.

----------


## Jon

> Trappers putting muskrat skins on wire stretchers before hanging them up to dry in back of their marsh camp. Delacroix Island, Saint Bernard Parish, Louisiana. January 1941.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Aug 15, 2019),

Seedtick (Aug 14, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

judging from the pile of wire stretchers there would be a lot of skun muskrats. I'd like to see the after picture.

----------


## Toolmaker51

Muskrat skins I get, WTH is the work area paved with??? Oyster shells?

----------


## Frank S

What I like is the all knowing expression on the older gentleman's face as he watches the youngers stretch the skins. If you could hear his eyes they would be saying boys I've done this all my life now its your turn and you better to them right if you expect me to buy them.

----------


## Toolmaker51

While I've not trapped or skinned muskrat, Frank S's comment hit me. When I saw this a couple days ago, it had me thinking about my various mentors. Fishing with Dad probably first one, second one his boss. We'd spend weekends visiting their estate and Thoroughbred farm, 60 years ago we sat at his desk in trophy room. He pulled out a pocket knife and dissected a red paper 12 gauge shotgun shell. That's when my world of physics, design, and machining began.

In other news, today is TM51's birthday, wanting 60 ton iron worker or single end punch; well tooled. 
I'll wind up with a cake and not even a picture of either one.

----------


## hemmjo

> .....In other news, today is TM51's birthday, wanting 60 ton iron worker or single end punch; well tooled. 
> I'll wind up with a cake and not even a picture of either one.



Happy Birthday Toolmaker!!!



I was going to wrap them with a nice bow, but out of time.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Aug 15, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

> In other news, today is TM51's birthday, wanting 60 ton iron worker or single end punch; well tooled. 
> I'll wind up with a cake and not even a picture of either one.



 Don't have pictures of either but will extend happy birthday regards to you.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Aug 15, 2019)

----------


## volodar

> Muskrat skins I get, WTH is the work area paved with??? Oyster shells?



Sure looks like it - the place is also an oyster shucking station. But what is the huge barrel on the left? Fresh water storage I would guess. How does it get filled?

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Happy Birthday Toolmaker!!!
> 
> 
> 
> I was going to wrap them with a nice bow, but out of time.



Aw shucks guys [shuffling feet, kicking at one shoe with toe of other] you're too kind. I do appreciate the salutations; I intend having P-L-E-N-T-Y more.

No problems with good used equipment. The Edwards far too pretty; Kling, Hill-ACME, Buffalo, Mubea, Strippit are all old mechanicals, fast and full attention required!
I have that very same single end punch in ebay watchlist! Holding company has it listed at their site too.

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

> Sure looks like it - the place is also an oyster shucking station. But what is the huge barrel on the left? Fresh water storage I would guess. How does it get filled?



Probably rain barrel.

----------


## hemmjo

> ... But what is the huge barrel on the left? Fresh water storage I would guess. ...



That barrel is interesting. Looks like was recently turned over. It seems to be wet by one of the bands, but the water seems to be running the wrong way.




Also the bands seem to have been moved at somepoint in time, perhaps as the barrel aged.

----------

volodar (Aug 17, 2019)

----------


## MeJasonT

rising damp from joint weeping

----------


## Toolmaker51

> That barrel is interesting. Looks like was recently turned over. It seems to be wet by one of the bands, but the water seems to be running the wrong way.
> 
> Attachment 30733
> 
> 
> Also the bands seem to have been moved at somepoint in time, perhaps as the barrel aged.
> 
> Attachment 30734





Phenomenal observations!

Jon. Here's a deserving awardee for newly minted 'Sharp Eye' trophy. May I suggest deerstalker cap and calabash pipe.

----------


## volodar

> That barrel is interesting. Looks like was recently turned over. It seems to be wet by one of the bands, but the water seems to be running the wrong way.
> 
> Attachment 30733
> 
> 
> Also the bands seem to have been moved at somepoint in time, perhaps as the barrel aged.
> 
> Attachment 30734



Good observation. I never noticed.

----------


## Jon

Threshing crew. Hungary, 1910.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Aug 20, 2019),

Quinton 357 (Aug 19, 2019),

Seedtick (Aug 19, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 19, 2019),

Tule (Aug 20, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Shipbuilders. Swansea, NSW, Australia. 1899.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

12bolts (Aug 21, 2019),

baja (Aug 22, 2019),

jimfols (Aug 21, 2019),

Seedtick (Aug 21, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 21, 2019),

volodar (Aug 27, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Always wonder how they drop hull lines building big boats outdoors, not to mention rolling it over afterward.

----------


## hemmjo

I wonder those things also. All of those old skills are or have already died off along with those who knew how to do it. I am sure, if we had to, we could figure it out. Only thing is, we would just get the laser out and shoot it that way.

----------


## Jon

> Quarrymen, Whiteman's Quarry, Waratah, New South Wales, 1885.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Aug 25, 2019),

high-side (Aug 23, 2019),

Seedtick (Aug 22, 2019)

----------


## 12bolts

> ... not to mention rolling it over afterward.



Why would they need to roll the hull over?

----------


## bruce.desertrat

John Lennons first band was bigger than I imagined..

----------

Toolmaker51 (Aug 23, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

> Why would they need to roll the hull over?



Many boats, at least smaller wood boats, are framed and planking begins upside down. I am guessing that one is 100 feet long, I doubt it was flipped. Too much risk of breaking it.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Aug 23, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Work crews change out the propellor of the SS _Leviathan_, a German ocean liner, while others paint the hull. 1910s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Aug 28, 2019),

high-side (Aug 31, 2019),

Miloslav (Aug 27, 2019),

Paul Jones (Aug 28, 2019),

Seedtick (Aug 27, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 27, 2019),

Tule (Aug 28, 2019),

volodar (Aug 28, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

Don't you just love the safety protocols 1 guy looks to be hanging onto and standing on bolts another is painting while on only walk planks no railings cables or any other form of barrier in the event of a miss step, too many things to mention that no one would even consider working in those conditions in today's world

----------


## hemmjo

> Don't you just love the safety protocols 1 guy looks to be hanging onto and standing on bolts another is painting while on only walk planks no railings cables or any other form of barrier in the event of a miss step, too many things to mention that no one would even consider working in those conditions in today's world



Not here in the USA. I do not know about other developed countries. I have seen way more dangerous work sites in both Haiti and the Dominican Republic. Jon has posted a few photos showing dangerous work sites. That one of the concrete deck collapse comes to mind right off. 

Something that caught my eye is the length of the painters poles, the small size of paint cans, and how close the cans are to the painters. Makes me wish it was a video.

LOTS going on in that photo!!

----------


## Rikk

Looking at the gent who is dressed better than the others, left side, middle. I wonder if he is possibly the Captain of the ship?

----------


## jackhoying

Yes, a lot going on in the photo. On the floor, under the ladder on the lower left of the photo, is that the wrench to take off the propellor lock nuts?
I wonder if the guys with the long brushes have wire brushes, rather than paint? Maybe prepping for paint?

----------


## bruce.desertrat

> Don't you just love the safety protocols 1 guy looks to be hanging onto and standing on bolts



Worse...I don't think those are bolts...I'm pretty sure those are rivets. Domed head and all...

----------


## Jon

> Snow removal - Ford Motor Co. (Fordson) tractor, Pennsylvania Avenue. Washington, D.C., 1925.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

Gregraper33712 (Aug 27, 2019),

Seedtick (Aug 27, 2019),

Tule (Aug 28, 2019)

----------


## skibo

There are so many safety wrongs going on in just this picture, a person can't even imagine how many safety wrongs under and around and the ship.

----------

Ronj (Aug 27, 2019)

----------


## gatz

...an interesting history 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Leviathan

----------

volodar (Aug 28, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Looking at the gent who is dressed better than the others, left side, middle. I wonder if he is possibly the Captain of the ship?



Possibly, though more likely the First Bos'n, or Engineering Officer. 
Like Scotty on Star Trek, without all the frenzied "...but Captain...!"

----------


## Crusty

The better dressed guy looking on is why everyone else is trying to look busy.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Aug 27, 2019)

----------


## Rikk

> Possibly, though more likely the First Bos'n, or Engineering Officer. 
> Like Scotty on Star Trek, without all the frenzied "...but Captain...!"



That does make more sense. I've never spent time aboard anything other than my 14' fishing "yacht", so I have to admit my ignorance when it comes to the chain of command. I was kind of thinking Engineering of some sort, but could't come up with a title that made sense in my head.

----------


## Frank S

A good 1st Bos'n / engineering officer/ Senior engineer will quickly calculate in their head that a task will take 12 hours, tell the Cpt./ Boss 24 hours till up and running.
Boss will say you've got 18 then deliver in 15, Is thought of as a hero gets kudos uses them to get time off for the workers. Next time the workers will try even harder to get it done and get it right the 1st time. Morale is good. 
The problem with that is the next time Boss begins to expect miracles, workers will forego proper safeties injuries happen task takes longer boss gets mad engineer gets chewed out this spills over to workers morale goes down

----------

Rikk (Aug 28, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Boiler makers, Castlemaine Brewery, Newcastle, New South Wales, 1901.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 1, 2019),

high-side (Aug 31, 2019),

Seedtick (Aug 30, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 31, 2019),

volodar (Aug 31, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Whole lot of Banging threading potential, especially the sledge hammer with 12' handle!

Not sure of the device in the center might be some sort of forge or hot plate looks like a teapot embedded on the left.

Ralph

----------


## skibo

For the life of me, I can't even imagine waylaying that 12 foot sledge hammer!

----------


## mklotz

The "forge" in the center is a brazier for heating the rivets. The leather looking thing on the bottom of the brazier is probably a hand pumped bellows. The fellow with neckerchief standing behind the kneeling man to the right of the brazier is holding a rivet in his tongs. The kneeling man may be holding a bucking bar to back the rivet as it's peened.

It's possible that the long "sledge hammer" is also a bucking bar used on rivets in hard to reach places. That's a guess because, with such a long, thus flexible, handle, I would think the hammer head would just bounce away from the rivet as it's peened.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Aug 31, 2019)

----------


## IntheGroove

One thing is for sure, they knew what they were doing and they did it well...

----------


## Toolmaker51

I think Marv is right about the 12' sledge, head looks to be twice the weight of a normal heavy sledge [~10/12 pound]. Perhaps one of the crew carried the head or suspended it with line, while the other kept it in place father away. Inside the vessel my have not been room to swing a handled tool.

----------


## Jon

Packaging line at a Hungarian fertilizer plant. 1940. 

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 3, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 2, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 1, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Different setting photographically, indoors among other issues, but I'm still impressed regarding striking quality, the detail of boilermakers photo in #954.

First thing I noticed here, why on earth the trucks for moving bags are built so low [or at least higher handle] allowing a man to work upright? The dispensing chutes must have been designed/ built first, trucks and tracks a mere afterthought.

----------


## 12bolts

What looks to be a bag stitching machine, (far left) is set fairly low. Perhaps to fit under that?

----------


## Frank S

Probably has little to do with anything we think.
by building the trolleys as low as possible the CG of the sacks are lower for transporting.
also having them so low that the bags have to drop from the fill chute this utilizes gravity to settle the grain or product inside insuring there would be enough head space to lace up the sacks.
the old bulk feed store in a town near to where I grew up would fill the gunny sacks then a guy would lift them and bounce them hard against the floor before sewing them up. Other wise if he didn't there would not be enough head space in the 100 lb sacks of grain to sew them. 
The peanut thrashing machine we used to use from the coop had a sacking feature on it the plate the sacks rested on while being filled had a rotating cam under it to cause the plate to slap the bottom of the sacks this knocked dust out of them as well as settling the peanuts. The newer thrasher the peanut dryer coop provided just used a chute to blow them in bulk to a container then we would shovel a few sacks full to keep. Pretty sure we made less money selling bulk than by the sack but a lot less work.

----------


## Jon

Aluminum (or "aluminium", I am happy to concede, since this is a UK photo) casting furnace work crew. 1937.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 3, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 2, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

re fertilizer bags. Closing them hadn't occurred to me until mentioned by 12bolts and Frank S. That case is likely. The frame has semicircular hoops to hold them upright and open, product fill bottom well enough, and top folds over for stitching. The frames open to remove the bag without lifting so high. 
But ergonomics wasn't a thing yet, especially in factories.

----------


## Ralphxyz

Love that ladle!

----------


## Jon

Road construction work crew. Oxford, Ohio. 1916.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 6, 2019),

Saxon Violence (Sep 5, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Sep 11, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 5, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Everybody put your best hat on!

----------


## Jon

Two more pics of 1937 UK casting furnace workers.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...2_fullsize.jpg




Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...3_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 6, 2019)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

"Safety gear... We don't need no stinking safety gear!"

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Sep 11, 2019)

----------


## volodar

> "Safety gear... We don't need no stinking safety gear!"



It´s OK...the older fellow wearing the tie, between the scale and the young boy, is supervising. All´s well.

----------


## Frank S

> It´s OK...the older fellow wearing the tie, between the scale and the young boy, is supervising. All´s well.



Yep and standing almost in the middle of 4 crucibles pouring into 4 separate spews at the same time yeah what could possibly go wrong.
But you know what it is safe to say that not a single one of us were there and they have obviously done it before.

----------


## Jon

Construction of the University Bridge in Seattle. 1932.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg

----------

jackhoying (Sep 8, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

All that concrete trucked in by hand!

----------


## jackhoying

When working construction back in the 70s, there weren't any concrete pumps, so we used wheelbarrows to pour large projects all the time. The style the guys are using in the photo makes a lot more sense than the one wheel version, as long as you build the nice path like they have in this photo.
I looks like those curved forms are for trolly tracks to be recessed into the bridge deck.

----------


## Jon

> The fire box of an engine being built in the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railroad locomotive shop, Albuquerque, New Mexico, 1943.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------


## jdurand

> All that concrete trucked in by hand!



And the water company digs it all up next week.

----------


## Jon

> Women and older men employed during WWII at a defense plant in Cressona, Schuylkill County, PA.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 10, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 9, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 9, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Wonder what hey were making?

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

It honestly just looks like a military parts shipping department. The black wire baskets on the right are feeding some of the lines with parts or something. The packages go down the line to the left through the tunnel for some reason. They might be heat shrink tunnels, those have been around for some time. It also appears to be in Indiana too, the sign in the back on the left appears to say Fort Wayne? Some of the lines are feeding large wooden slant front crates and it looks like tires are being packaged in the top right, back of the photo along with stacks of what appear to be small tires just to the left of those. It is a very large building too!

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Correction, Detroit, Michigan. From the website MHUGL "Military History of the Upper Great Lakes":

"... During both world wars it was used as a shipping center that sent vehicles and weapons manufactured in Detroit to the fronts of the war. During World War II the fort housed Italian prisoners of war. During the Detroit riots the fort provided housing for families whose houses were destroyed.
Fort Wayne was one of the largest motor supply depots in World War II and additional buildings were constructed near the fort to warehouse the weapons and vehicles being sent the fronts of the war. Equipment was sent out on ship by the Detroit River or by the railroad that used to run next to the fort."

Likely myriad parts for the war effort went out through the Great Lakes.

----------


## Jon

> Sandhogs and mucking machine in the Kensico-Hillview Tunnel. January 18, 1939.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 11, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 10, 2019)

----------


## IntheGroove

Twin cylinder steam powered cable winch. Date and location unknown.

----------

Jon (Sep 10, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 10, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Twin cylinder steam powered cable winch. Date and location unknown.



!! A tapered wire rope sheave? New to me, that is certain.

----------


## Ralphxyz

re: tapered wire rope sheave, possible they needed to change the speed of the cable. Would the torque also change?

----------


## Rikk

> re: tapered wire rope sheave, possible they needed to change the speed of the cable. Would the torque also change?



I wonder if it was to allow the steam engine to gain rpms/power? Similar to shifting gears in a car/truck. Once the load is in motion, the initial torque required lessens?

----------


## Frank S

> re: tapered wire rope sheave, possible they needed to change the speed of the cable. Would the torque also change?



My theory would be they used the taper to cause the rope to lay flat as in an early attempt at the lebius wrap 
going from the minor to the major diameters the speed torque and length differences between each wrap would be negligible
say if the minor was 40 inches and the major was 48 inches there would be only about 2 ft total change in length from the shortest to the longest wrap. 
the total single layer full drum length would be around say 220 ft useable payout or take up. This would only work for a single layer drum wrap though

----------

Toolmaker51 (Sep 15, 2019)

----------


## suther51

A type of capstan with a take up real out side the picture??
Eric

----------


## hemmjo

If the machine is designed to move a load, the load may vary as it is moved. An over head garage door for example, gets lighter as each panel transitions from the vertical track to the horizontal track. For the garage door, the varying load is compensated by the springs as they relax, at the top, the load is the least, and the springs are in their most relaxed position. 

Perhaps this variable sized drum, is for some application with a similar requirement.

----------

suther51 (Sep 11, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Working on a locomotive at the Chicago and Northwestern Railroad shops, Chicago, Illinois, 1942.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 12, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 11, 2019)

----------


## Scotsman Hosie

> Road construction work crew. Oxford, Ohio. 1916.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



From just before the turn of the century, up to about the same time, my paternal grandfather was grading roads  with a team of horses and a Fresno.

----------


## Jon

> Children working in the Pennsylvania Coal Company, Pittston Pennsylvania, 1911.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 13, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 12, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 14, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

That photo should hang in all classrooms in the USA. Then when the kids whine, "This is too hard", the teacher can point to that photo and say, "You have no concept of hard really is!!!"

----------

HobieDave (Mar 7, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 14, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Baldwin Locomotive Works erecting shop. 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...p_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 15, 2019),

high-side (Sep 15, 2019),

jimfols (Sep 14, 2019),

Quinton 357 (Sep 14, 2019),

ranald (Sep 13, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 15, 2019)

----------


## ranald

very "hands" on !

----------


## hemmjo

> Baldwin Locomotive Works erecting shop. 1904.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...p_fullsize.jpg



That appears to be the same engine as shown in an earlier stage of construction in post #976. Fascinating

----------

baja (Sep 15, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg



Child labor, abysmal conditions, virtually no safety precautions; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_33
I'm no advocate for modern unions; mining one of few deserving industries to receive their continued attention. 

And I'll vote Hemmjo's comment that children SEE evidence what toils are. In fact, aspect could be attached to every topic of history at least.

----------

baja (Sep 15, 2019)

----------


## stillldoinit

Maybe there needs to be a requirement on every picture taken, an explanation of what it is so future generations wont have to wonder and speculate,"what were they thinking when they built that?", lol.

----------


## Frank S

As far as the what were they thinking when they built that the only way for future generations to understand is they will first need an understanding of what technologies were available back in the day. They will additionally need a comprehension of the mind set of folks during the industrial age where hard work actually did mean hard work which was sometimes dangerous almost always thankless but most of all beyond everything else there was PRIDE in having accomplished things that others were not even capable of dreaming of being able to do.

----------

HobieDave (Mar 7, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 15, 2019)

----------


## stillldoinit

All too often in this day and age, there is no longer pride in the workplace. The work ethic I grew up with doesn't seem to exist except in very small towns where everyone knows everything about everyone else and if someone is in a bad way, the whole community is behind them. Frank, I agree with you in your statement, I was being sarcastic in my post. Many times I see something in the junk and wonder what that was used for when it was built, and quite often find a new totally unrelated use for it.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Sep 15, 2019)

----------


## ranald

all these insights and related comments are valid. "Every generation blames the one before" and every parent tries to do better for theirs, than they experienced and after a couple of generations we wonder how they survived. Today the really hard work is a totally different type of STRESS: that of the brain or mind and the releases isn't just dreaming of what could be, but can change direction to addictions of some kind. Is it medicene that has created so much suffering or ill at ease? We never heard of issues/qualities like aspergers and the spectrum seems to be everywhere when we look close. We are obsessed with "labels" which seems to help a few understand/accept others/themselves.
OK I'll shut up now.
Have to go back to culling my stuff ready to move on to the next adventure/level.

Cheers

----------

Toolmaker51 (Sep 15, 2019)

----------


## skibo

I see a very different world here in the young people then working very hard and in dangerous environment's as these young men. I I do not feel this is good nor would I want to do this type of work in the dangerous coal dust, but considering the time and all it was sometimes all there was, it don't make it right but it still structured our Country as it grew! These were Men and Women that were "real" young Men and Women, even if working in a coal mine or building a steam locomotive or hammering steel in a ship yard or tilling a field for the Counties food, at least you'll not find a "Man Bun or a ear ring on anyone of them!! We are loosing our next generation of Men and to some degree the Women also! I Just see what I see every day in my retired life!

----------


## Jon

> it don't make it right but it still structured our Country as it grew



There is a quote commonly attributed to apocalyptic author and retired Marine G. Michael Hopf that well encapsulates your point, and that we see illustrated in many of these vintage work crew photos. It goes like this:




> "Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times."

----------

12bolts (Sep 15, 2019),

HobieDave (Mar 7, 2020),

jimfols (Sep 16, 2019),

ranald (Sep 19, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 15, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> A 17 MVA hydroelectric generator being constructed at the Siemens Dynamowerk in Berlin, 1955.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 17, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 16, 2019),

volodar (Sep 21, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Two of the guys are doing precision assemble work with a hammer and one looks like he is trimming something with tin snips. The generator is probable still working.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Maybe there needs to be a requirement on every picture taken, an explanation of what it is so future generations wont have to wonder and speculate,"what were they thinking when they built that?", lol.



Great idea. But for whatever reason rarely practiced. We all have family photos; what percentage have something written on the reverse? Other than "Kodak" not a shred of information. At a minimum, the date. Who or what. The location.
A photo, Uncle Harold and three unknown military buddies? A wedding party? A house? A dog? Where is this old barn? That's Hoover Dam but...?
Occurs to me writing this, value of snapshots might be 100% only for who took it, degrading by generation quickly after that.
Simple notes make genealogy far easier.

----------


## VinnieL

A lot of the older black and white photos contained at least a date on the lower bargin of the photo print.

----------


## Jon

Apprentice boatbuilders. Portsmouth Dockyards, late 1800s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 17, 2019),

high-side (Sep 21, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 16, 2019),

volodar (Sep 18, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Fire Station No. 1, Springfield, Missouri (1956)



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

high-side (Sep 21, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

sitting around relaxing by the potbellied stove at the fire hall all they needed was a checker board.

----------


## Rikk

> sitting around relaxing by the potbellied stove at the fire hall all they needed was a checker board.



Don't forget a sleeping dog.

----------

volodar (Sep 21, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Some of these black and white photos, while the subject is dear to us, are perfectly exquisite photography. This is one of them.

----------

ranald (Sep 19, 2019),

volodar (Sep 20, 2019)

----------


## ranald

> Great idea. But for whatever reason rarely practiced. We all have family photos; what percentage have something written on the reverse? Other than "Kodak" not a shred of information. At a minimum, the date. Who or what. The location.
> A photo, Uncle Harold and three unknown military buddies? A wedding party? A house? A dog? Where is this old barn? That's Hoover Dam but...?
> Occurs to me writing this, value of snapshots might be 100% only for who took it, degrading by generation quickly after that.
> Simple notes make genealogy far easier.



Stilldoinit & Toolmaker51 and anyone else interested:-)
I often wonder about family heirloom pics but this one takes the cake or..a..glug. No caption on the back but I reckon it might be "Cheers Mate" or "stop acting the goat and give me the real stuff" or...........No year noted but the tie suggests a time I should remember around 1970 or so:oh well I still like it!



Cheers

----------

volodar (Sep 21, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Perfect example. Suspect not so long after, who's ever heirs find this without a shred of detail; about the circumstance for either old goat.

----------

ranald (Sep 20, 2019)

----------


## ranald

Ha HA Ha. " Don't ya just love it" 

cheers

----------

Beserkleyboy (Sep 20, 2019)

----------


## marksbug

cheep date....with low expectations.

----------

volodar (Sep 21, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Landing, cleaning, washing, and flaking fish at Sardine Cannery, Eastport, Maine, 1899.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 22, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 20, 2019),

Tule (Sep 21, 2019),

volodar (Sep 20, 2019)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

WOW! Historically an awesome operation, as a Food Safety Manager, Laying any type of food on the ground is a HUGE no no, even on racks like those. If I saw a restaurant laying food on the floor it would certainly be my last trip there!

----------


## skibo

I do believe the fish is laying on racks,not just laid out on the old creosoted planks, as you can see what seems to be a rack leaning up on the left side of this picture! Just my observation! We have to remember,people were on average more healthy then compared to today's generation, because the crap we and most of us people eat today!

----------


## marksbug

the floor may be cleaner than the racks....

----------


## Ralphxyz

and they were more healthy back then because of the crap they ate. The food they ate back then was all natural with a occasional
this or that thrown. The food eaten now is all processed, they good stuff has gotten processed out.

----------


## Toolmaker51

re: the Cannery picture. About 43 workers on that dock.
One glaring detail hit me immediately. See it?






Virtually all the men are posing, yet the women attend to work.

----------


## hemmjo

I did notice the women continuing to work as the men pose. Also, of the 43 workers, men and women, I see only 4 with NO HAT, they are men or boys.

Different times for sure.

----------


## Jon

> with NO HAT



Obligatory Simpsons reference!

----------

Toolmaker51 (Sep 21, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Suspect is hatless; Chief Wiggum is hapless.

----------


## Jon

> Crew on a narrow-gauge steam engine, Hungary, 1930.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

volodar (Sep 22, 2019)

----------


## 12bolts

What might be the purpose of the linkage that protrudes from the front of the cab and the middle guy is resting his hand upon?

----------


## volodar

> What might be the purpose of the linkage that protrudes from the front of the cab and the middle guy is resting his hand upon?



https://straction.wordpress.com/how-...omotive-works/

for an explanation...

http://trumpetb.net/loco/wdiagram.html

----------

12bolts (Sep 22, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Workers on the Oregon Trunk Railroad bridge across the Crooked River in Central Oregon.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 24, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 23, 2019),

volodar (Sep 23, 2019)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Nope, no, no way, nu-uh!

----------

HobieDave (Mar 7, 2020),

Paul Jones (Sep 23, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 23, 2019)

----------


## IntheGroove

Scares me and I'm fearless...

----------


## Frank S

There was a time when I wouldn't think twice about walking across on that plank.
But age may have brought about just a little wisdom in that area.

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Close your eyes and run real fast!

----------


## stillldoinit

I wonder if bungee jumping was invented when someone was tied to a rope in case they fell off they could have been retrieved. On another note, I am a recovering alcoholic and before I quit drinking 40 years ago, I used to walk crane I-beam when someone would not have crane over load and trying to pick slightly out of reach of the trolley in 30 foot ceiling. After I got sober. I could not do it anymore. Like Frank said "age and wisdom" now prevail although at 73 I am grateful to still be fairly active.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

The origins of bungee jumping: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_diving 

I remember reading that 1970 National Geographic article.

----------


## Ralphxyz

Hey let's stroll over to the other side, the view is better!

----------


## Toolmaker51

This guy's taking the safe route too!
 
Probably a slower Di Di Mau than your octopus, lol.

----------


## jdurand

You go first, we'll watch

----------


## 12bolts

It might be the safer route...

..but its one hell of a climb!

----------


## IntheGroove

With all of that debris on the ground, it's not much safer down there...

----------


## Jon

Coal sorting workers. 1942.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Sep 25, 2019),

baja (Sep 25, 2019),

high-side (Sep 26, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 24, 2019)

----------


## Moby Duck

And the women of today find things to complain about, they don't know how lucky they are. 
I suppose when they go home and do the washing in a tub with a scrubbing/washboard, their hands will be nice and clean again when they cook the dinner. I am glad we treat them better now.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Sep 25, 2019)

----------


## IntheGroove

One of those seven ladies could be your mother, grandmother or great grandmother. They were not afraid to work...

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Ahh, that famous 'clean coal' everyone talks about, musta been them washing it all down!

----------


## Frank S

In sorting coal they were keenly looking for non coal minerals like regular rocks secondly they could have been looking for lower grades of coal.
Had the folks of my family lived in coal bearing regions one of those ladies could have been my mother she would have been in just about the correct age bracket.

----------


## Jon

> Pin boys working in Subway Bowling Alleys, 65 South St., B'klyn, N.Y. every night. 3 smaller boys were kept out of the photo by Boss. April 1910.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg




More: https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2018674610/

----------

Andyt (Sep 27, 2019),

baja (Sep 27, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 26, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

My dad used to do that when he was a kid. Told us about how the pins would often fly up and hit them as they stood there watching, waiting.

----------


## Jon

> Striping and painting the crosswalk on SE Hawthorne Boulevard and SE 49th Avenue looking east in Portland (OR), 1939.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Sep 27, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 26, 2019)

----------


## skibo

I saw these people when I was a kid in Washington State in my home town doing this with hand held sprayers, this must of caused bad backs after the streets were finished, but. back breaking work was the norm , even in the fifties and sixties!

----------


## Ralphxyz

I used to ten pin bowl back in the sixties with guys setting the pins.

----------


## Jon

Workers building the Berlin Wall.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Sep 29, 2019),

baja (Sep 29, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 28, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 27, 2019),

Tule (Sep 29, 2019)

----------


## 12bolts

They sure dont look like happy workmen

----------


## IntheGroove

Two guys working and three guys with guns...

----------


## MeJasonT

I was looking at the blocks and had to question the authenticity of the photo as the blocks look like modern breeze blocks not the ones used in Germany during the war. Ii haven't researched when the wall went up 1050's i guess
but my research on blocks was fruitfull

The first hollow concrete block was designed in 1890 by Harmon S. Palmer in the United States. After 10 years of experimenting, Palmer patented the design in 1900. Palmer's blocks were 8 in (20.3 cm) by 10 in (25.4 cm) by 30 in (76.2 cm), and they were so heavy they had to be lifted into place with a small crane. By 1905, an estimated 1,500 companies were manufacturing concrete blocks in the United States.

https://www.encyclopedia.com/manufac...concrete-block

So yep blocks look genuine to me

oooh interesting

The Berlin Wall (German: Berliner Mauer) was a wall that separated the city of Berlin in Germany from 1961 to 1989. It separated the eastern half from the western half. Many people thought it was a symbol of the Cold War. The Berlin Wall was taken down on November 9, 1989.[1][2] The Berlin Wall was about 168 km (104 miles) long.[3] It was built to prevent people from escaping from the eastern half of Berlin.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall

I knew that Germany was divided up between the west and Russia our then allies just after the war and then at some point thereafter the boundary was marked but didnt know when.

----------


## MeJasonT

Soviet building gang seeks work
looking for anything along the US Mexican border
will need papers

----------


## Toolmaker51

*The Berlin Wall was about 168 km (104 miles) long.[3] It was built to prevent people from escaping from the eastern half of Berlin.
*Despite imposing size, concertina wire, guards and weapons; not entirely successful at 'preventing' just curtailing. We Yanks aren't the only inventive culture, many persevered and managed escape.
Freedom may be the strongest magnet of all. 
Even those with 'freedom' still desire individuality and freedom of choice. How about pirate stations XERB and Radio Caroline for example. Some are comfortable with what is fed _to_ them; real freedom is more like a buffet.

----------

Beserkleyboy (Sep 28, 2019),

MeJasonT (Sep 28, 2019)

----------


## skibo

This picture say's to me what the Socialist Left and Millinnials will have us be like today or the near future,just saying! I have read many books and watching many war videos about the German Jews in the middle Thirties and Fortes! I was a kid watching on TV in the Fifties about the Eastern German people didn't think it would happen to them by their own Government, and how their thinking proved them wrong! I'm not trying to be real Political here, but the hand writhing is there for us in the USA! My Opinion!

----------

hemmjo (Sep 28, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 28, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Installing gas pipeline, Boston, 1890s.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (Sep 30, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

I am wondering if they are installing or taping into an existing line This is what it looks like to me.
From my perspective it appears that they dug a huge hole around the existing pipeline then shored up the hole with timbers and planking then laid a huge bridging timber over the pipe and supported it with the chains and rods as would be done in today's world by turnbuckles winches, excavators or a crane, Now that the pipe is supported they will probably clean it then install a saddle clamp with a nipple and Tee with a valve and piercing cutter connect the spur line to the branch of the tee the valve on the run then place the piercing cutter through the center of the open gate valve cut the hole in the pipe back the cutter out close the valve remove the cutter then cap the open side of the valve. More than likely there will be 2 valves one on the branch between the tee and the spur so that can be left closed until the rest of the spur line is completed. 
I helped weld a 10" Tee to a 12" line one time. Only I wasn't told it was a hot tie on a live line until after we had finished welding the flange for the Tee to the line. Some of the insane things welders do in their lives.

----------


## Moby Duck

Talking about the Berlin Wall:-
They were not forced labour workers. There were permanent workers, but they actually employed casual labour every day from both sides of the wall. Two oppos of mine whilst on annual leave from the Navy, were tripping around West Germany and actually worked on the wall for 3 days around 1964/65 to get some extra money. They were paid daily and the contractors were paying better money than the Navy at the time. No, they didnt have Naval permission to step into an Eastern Block country, but the Navy never found out and they all lived happily ever after.

----------


## Jon

United States Postal Service workers showing off their motorized scooters. 1917.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (Sep 30, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

So, which is Dean Kamen's grandfather?

----------

12bolts (Sep 29, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Yes Frank, your appraisal is more likely!

Ralph

----------


## Frank S

> Yes Frank, your appraisal is more likely!
> 
> Ralph



But the title would still be correct as tying into an existing line with a new one is installing a pipeline

----------


## Beserkleyboy

TM51,
Wow! That's a blast from the past...XERB, the Mighty 1090! I used to listen to the Wolfman from my suburban bedroom in Orinda Calif in 69-71...sorta like nearly meeting the outside world...and through my shortwave listening, on a Lafayette Radio 5 band receiver from a kit, $40!, I sent a QSL to Radio Havana Cuba, and promptly got on their mailing list for their 'Granma' newsprint propaganda sheet...complete with copious stories and BW photos of Che Guevara; my mum was a bit worried, but the CIA never came calling... Thanks for the memory, cheers

Jim in South Coast NSW Aus

----------

Toolmaker51 (Sep 30, 2019)

----------


## Jon

1910s Navy airship and crew. Largest image size available.

----------

baja (Oct 1, 2019),

Seedtick (Sep 30, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

What are those tubes hanging down from the airship?

----------


## mklotz

Surprisingly, this compilation...

https://bluejacket.com/usn_avi_lta.html

indicates that the the earliest classes of Navy dirigibles (A, B, C) were filled with hydrogen. It wasn't until C-7 that helium was used.

I suspect the smaller of the two tubes was used to spill the water ballast so the ship could rise. The other tube might be a gas vent for descending. Maybe that tube is a fill tube. In either case, why the strange angle?

----------


## Denis G

> What are those tubes hanging down from the airship?



I think that they are tubes to allow air in and out of the "ballonets" (interior balloons) to control the pressure in the airship:
https://aviation.stackexchange.com/q...-a-zeppelin-nt
The ballonets within the airship also control the trim.

----------


## Ralphxyz

I do not see any rigging on the angled one there might be something on the smaller one.

----------


## greyhoundollie

pop corn tubes for in flight movie goers

----------


## Frank S

> Surprisingly, this compilation...
> 
> https://bluejacket.com/usn_avi_lta.html
> 
> indicates that the the earliest classes of Navy dirigibles (A, B, C) were filled with hydrogen. It wasn't until C-7 that helium was used.
> 
> I suspect the smaller of the two tubes was used to spill the water ballast so the ship could rise. The other tube might be a gas vent for descending. Maybe that tube is a fill tube. In either case, why the strange angle?



According to the article provided by Denis G the tube being at the angle positioned near the prop was to force air into the ballonets the small tube would have been for venting said air. 
Kind of an interesting way of controlling altitude plus ascending and descending. Also it would be a delicate balance between slightly compressing the helium by reducing its free volume with the air in the ballonets the air would also become denser under a slightly higher pressure making it negatively buoyant

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

I wonder if it has to do with being directly behind the prop?

----------


## 12bolts

Ralph, I can see 2 wires on the upper leading edge of the angled tube, and on the "circumferential band" just back from the opening I can see wires running down to the stays running aft from the cockpit, plus there looks to be others also running from that band up to the hydrogen envelope.

Cheers Phil

----------


## Denis G

> According to the article provided by Denis G the tube being at the angle positioned near the prop was to force air into the ballonets the small tube would have been for venting said air. 
> Kind of an interesting way of controlling altitude plus ascending and descending. Also it would be a delicate balance between slightly compressing the helium by reducing its free volume with the air in the ballonets the air would also become denser under a slightly higher pressure making it negatively buoyant



Here's an "unclassified" manual for flying a K-Type airship if you ever find yourself in the pilot's seat:
https://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli...lot_manual.pdf
Page 22 describes the "Envelope Pressure Control System" and the functions of the fore and aft ballonets.

The previous section contains a detailed tally of the weight of the components in the airship including the machine gun and ammo.
(I don't think that I'd like the job manning the machine gun.)

----------

Frank S (Oct 1, 2019),

Rikk (Oct 1, 2019)

----------


## IntheGroove

You think the guy in the aft that cranks over the engine gets to man a machine gun...

----------


## Jon

> Ship fitters, Mare Island Naval Shipyard, California, circa 1943.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Oct 2, 2019),

jimfols (Oct 1, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 1, 2019),

volodar (Oct 3, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

> Here's an "unclassified" manual for flying a K-Type airship if you ever find yourself in the pilot's seat:
> https://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli...lot_manual.pdf
> Page 22 describes the "Envelope Pressure Control System" and the functions of the fore and aft ballonets.
> 
> The previous section contains a detailed tally of the weight of the components in the airship including the machine gun and ammo.
> (I don't think that I'd like the job manning the machine gun.)



Thanks Denis G now after reading the manual I feel certain that I am officially fully unqualified to pilot a US Navy air ship. But hopefully I would know enough of the basics not to get tossed out a port hole.
While reading that it reminded me of an Indiana Jones movie

----------


## Frank S

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg



The lady in the center has the perfect tool for the job of freeing a sticky valve stem just tap on it a few times.
If it hadn't been for the women during the wars there is no way the allied forces could have defeated the foes.

----------


## jimfols

"Ship fitters, Mare Island Naval Shipyard, California, circa 1943. "

I was a child but I remember everyone having an attitude of working together for the common good.

----------

Rikk (Oct 2, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> U.S. Navy sailors paint the forward stack of the troop transport USS General J.C. Breckinridge (AP-176).



Taken from the March 1950 issue of U.S. Navy _All Hands_ Magazine.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Oct 3, 2019),

MeJasonT (Oct 6, 2019),

Miloslav (Oct 2, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Oct 7, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 2, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Hand scraping and painting, wonder about exposure to lead paint?

----------

MeJasonT (Oct 6, 2019)

----------


## IntheGroove

Not everyone was wearing a hard hat, if those are hard hats...

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Not everyone was wearing a hard hat, if those are hard hats...



Conical shape of some tells me they are standard uniform 'Dixie Cups', brims flipped down for a little extra shade. Anchor clankers are hardheaded enough, I ought to know.
Took 26 years to figure it out!

----------

MeJasonT (Oct 6, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Working on a Junkers Ju 287.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg




More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_287

----------

baja (Oct 5, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Oct 7, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 4, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 7, 2019)

----------


## greyhoundollie

They look kind of like sailors "Dixie Cups" (Cotton sailors hat) with the brim pulled down

----------


## greyhoundollie

Bob Denver (Gilligan on the comedy Gilligan's Island) Wore a Dixie Cup with the brim down as his every day costume when filming the series.

----------


## Jon

Early U.S. mail wagon. New York, 1900s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Oct 7, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 7, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

The men along the street look so distinguished! Even the driver is wearing a tie. I sure would love to have one I assume it is electric.

----------


## Jon

Nurses treat patients with ultraviolet light from a Finsen hospital lamp. London, 1900.

Largest image size available.

----------

Seedtick (Oct 7, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

> Nurses treat patients with ultraviolet light from a Finsen hospital lamp. London, 1900.
> 
> Largest image size available.



Haven't they been telling us for years now that UV is bad for us. maybe when this was machine was being used they were trying to use UV to increase vitamin D absorbson.

----------


## hemmjo

> Haven't they been telling us for years now that UV is bad for us. maybe when this was machine was being used they were trying to use UV to increase vitamin D absorbson.



UV light is used to sterilize things. I had a cabinet in my classroom for safety glasses. It had timer with a UV light to sterilize glasses between classes. 

Have to remember that all medical procedures are "practices". They practice one thing until they discover it is not really a good thing to do, then they practice something else. They used to "bleed" people also to let the "bad blood" out, among other crazy things.

----------


## Jon

Weighing the catch. Gloucester, Massachusetts, c. 1905.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Oct 8, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 7, 2019)

----------


## skibo

Ummm, Just got to love that smell!

----------


## Jon

> This study model in plaster in a scale of 1/5 inch = 1 foot was constructed by Emile Garet (wearing hat in photo), an architect sculptor, for the Architect of the Capitol as part of a 1904 report for the extension of the East Front of the U.S. Capitol. It was constructed so that the extension could be removed to compare the Capitol as it then existed with the proposed changes of 1904. The delicate carvings and attention to detail made this model a popular attraction at international expositions in the early 20th century. It was displayed in the crypt of the Capitol from 1938 to 1976, when it was moved to this location. The extension of the East Front was ultimately constructed between 1958 and 1962.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Oct 9, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 8, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

re: #1093, the dockworkers and haul of fish.
Yes, imagine the smell on a warm sunny day something best to avoid.
But as with certain other black and white photos, exemplary technique on full display. Stone white to pitch black and every grey between, pale compared to spectacular depth of field. Prior to digitization for online, probably ~10% sharper yet.

----------


## Ralphxyz

#1095 has some interesting black and white contrast right down to the asbestos pipe insulation.

----------


## Jon

Harvest workers. Wagga Wagga, New South Wales, Australia. Undated.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Oct 10, 2019),

Beserkleyboy (Oct 10, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 9, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Looking for a needle in a haystack?

----------

Toolmaker51 (Oct 9, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Looking for a needle in a haystack?



Possibly; as say, contact lenses hadn't been invented yet

----------


## IntheGroove

I bet there's a snake in that hay stack...

----------


## Jon

Boiler shop crew. US Navy Yard. Mare Island, CA. 1901.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Oct 11, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 10, 2019)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Ha! Seriously, 'Wagga', as the locals call it, is NSW largest inland city and a huge hub for the agriculture around. Explored 1829, surveyed 1849. Wagga means 'crow' in the local Aboriginal language. To form plurals, they repeat the word, thus Wagga Wagga means 'land of many crows'...And the locals also quip, 'Its so nice, they named it twice....
Jim on the Sth Coast NSW

----------


## 12bolts

Interesting to note there doesn't seem to be any "boys" in there. A few younger men, but no apprentices

----------


## IntheGroove

The only person not wearing his hat is the boss...

----------


## Beserkleyboy

IntheGroove,
yea...and it'd be an Eastern Brown snake...#2 in the venom stakes...cheers

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Wonder what the six guys in the middle (and one guy on the left) looking to their right saw? I also love the older guy in the back perched above everyone else.

----------


## Rikk

> Wonder what the six guys in the middle (and one guy on the left) looking to their right saw? I also love the older guy in the back perched above everyone else.



If you look to the owners right, your left, the gent standing with his arms at his sides looks to be the son or brother of the guy you're speaking of. Same clothes and hat as well I think.

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Maybe brothers. The one perched without the ears of the one standing.

----------

Rikk (Oct 11, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Factory workers leaving at the end of their shift, Sesto San Giovanni, Italy, 1960s.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...d_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Oct 12, 2019),

high-side (Oct 14, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 11, 2019),

volodar (Oct 12, 2019)

----------


## IntheGroove

That is one sweet motorcycle...

----------


## Nick79

That looks like a sweet little motor bike - make, model??

----------


## olderdan

> That looks like a sweet little motor bike - make, model??



I am pretty sure it is an MV Pulman (1953-1956) or super Pulman (1955-1958), and is a 125cc mostly used for daily commuting.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Yes, it's an MV Pullman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Agusta_125_Pullman

----------


## Jon

Ice cutting machine. Chebacco Lake, Massachusetts. 1920.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Jon

> Boy working at double circular saws. N.Y. Dimension Supply Co. Location: Evansville, Indiana. October, 1908.



Found this one at the Library of Congress archives, which has an excellent Child laborers collection.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (Oct 14, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 14, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

As if the large overhead belt above the unguarded walkway an insufficient hazard. Yet I wonder, sans OSHA, what was the ratio of accidents to labor hours compared to now?

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Quite high. There's limited data that far back, but as an example thisis for the Steel industry between 1910 and 1939:

Steel Industry fatality and Injury rates, 1910-1939

(Rates are per million manhours)

Period	Fatality rate	Injury Rate
1910-1913	0.40	44.1
1937-1939	0.13	11.7

Source: https://eh.net/encyclopedia/history-...1880-1970-2/#7

Much of the early records concern mining as it was (and remains) on of the deadliest workplaces:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/wk/mm4822.pdf See in particular Figure 1: Allegeny County averaged 40+ deaths a month, 

and Figure 4 showing the precipitous drop in mining-related deaths. 

(note: these are deaths per 100,000 workers) 

Also, it was a saw like that that killed Johnny Cash's brother when he was 12.

----------

baja (Oct 15, 2019),

Jon (Oct 15, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 14, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

We have some a long way, and we needed to. However, I feel like we are going too far now. At some point, Trying to make things so "safe" that no one can get hurt, creates careless people. 

Along the lines of the quote, “Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”, by G. Michael Hopf.

The hard times, and dangerous work that were endured by the strong kids, men and women of years past created the the good times we have now. But those good times are rapidly creating a generation of people who do not appreciate the importance or value the determined work ethic of years ago.

----------

HobieDave (Mar 7, 2020),

mklotz (Oct 15, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 15, 2019),

volodar (Oct 16, 2019)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

And honestly, education is one of the most effective ways to promote safety. Information and education before the opportunity for injury promotes a safer workplace. Intuitive controls and guarding aren't there so the operator can snooze through, they're there for the "oops" moment that would otherwise result in much much worse outcome. So I cut my finger on a sharp guard but kept my hand? That's a tragedy turned into a good day.

----------


## Jon

I think of the child laborer era like I think of "sweatshops", in that, given the time and circumstances, the only thing worse than the existing labor conditions is not having any jobs available at all. Similarly, when a sweatshop (I don't think locals call them that) opens up somewhere, it's a _comparatively_ safe and reliable job in a place where people are existing at starvation levels of poverty. Western media crusades to end those practices, without substituting any other employment opportunities for locals. I couldn't find it after a quick search, but there was even a NYT article about how Rwandans were thrilled at the opening of a local sweatshop, because, compared to sifting through garbage for barely-edible food, it provided them with their first real paying job.

If industrialization works, child labor is a transitional phase. Here's an example of that transition, again from the Library of Congress. Ironically, the "normal" child in the poster would be considered a ragamuffin today.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Oct 20, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 15, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Torpedo storage building with sailors working on torpedoes at the Submarine Base, Los Angeles. 1947.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (Oct 17, 2019)

----------


## IntheGroove

You would think there would be a bridge crane in that building...

----------


## Ralphxyz

I wonder how they got the torpedos up on the rack?

----------


## Jon

More from that same "file unit" at the National Archives website: https://catalog.archives.gov/search?...naIdSort%20asc

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Looked at the "reception area outside commanders office" https://catalog.archives.gov/id/295466 They sure went out of their way to make the building feel like a sub :-)

----------


## Jon

> Telephone handset assembly at the Chesapeake & Potomac Telephone Company circa 1925.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Quinton 357 (Oct 17, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 17, 2019),

Tule (Oct 19, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Love that lathe in the back left corner must be 10x48.

----------


## Toolmaker51

*Torpedo storage building with sailors working on torpedoes at the Submarine Base, Los Angeles. 1947.* 



> 



I believe the Naval Base described as Los Angeles was actually Seal Beach. Residents will recall the many hemispherical floats [for submarine nets presumably] stacked like cannonballs along the fence line; southeast corner, the intersection of Seal Beach & Westminister Blvd's. The more recognized name is Naval Weapons Station Seal Beach, un-indoctrinated locals puzzled at the many earthen mounds visible from 405 Freeway too. As if that's not enough, it is a prominent Wild Life Refuge, mainly attracting sea birds and majestic great horned owls. I surmise the grounds house rabbits, mice and the like. 
Time was, among other things, us card-carrying swabs got small-arms practice there, more or less overlooking the vast Pacific. My second visit, we were accompanied by USCG armorers, and felt direct connection to being a tax payer and proud serviceman simultaneously. 
Why? 1st time, the Navy Gunnersmate's [GM] had a big range box with 16 Ruger .22lr Heavy Barrel Mk I's, and who knows how many bricks of white box Federal cartridges.
Nice!

Next time, the USCG GM's toted a handmade box too - with 16 Smith & Wesson Mdl #41's.
And commercial Eley target ammunition. . . What an incredible firearm the 41 is.
Nicer!

----------


## Toolmaker51

> More from that same "file unit" at the National Archives website: https://catalog.archives.gov/search?...naIdSort%20asc



Like https://catalog.archives.gov/search?...naIdSort%20asc "Metal shop at the Submarine Base Los Angeles"
Alternate caption "How many steady rests do you need?"
Oh, I dunno, how long is the lathe bed?
Lol
Shaft lathes for sure; I'm betting Axelson or Monarch, greatest of all.

----------


## Frank S

> Like https://catalog.archives.gov/search?...naIdSort%20asc "Metal shop at the Submarine Base Los Angeles"
> Alternate caption "How many steady rests do you need?"
> Oh, I dunno, how long is the lathe bed?
> Lol
> Shaft lathes for sure; I'm betting Axelson or Monarch, greatest of all.



 When it comes to long large but completely modularly reconfigurable lathes one cannot leave out the RG Letourneau tournamatic lathes .
At one time MR RG had some 150 of his lathes turning out 155 mm shells some 90,000 of them all totaled but the crowning glory of his lathes was his concrete bed lathe made from repurposed ways and Rail road tracks turned into ways,scavenged from his many WWII lathes to turn out shafts for gas turbine generators probably done for the Westinghouse corp. 
Not a lot of people know a whole lot of the RG Letourneau corp. outside of his rather large and often times 1 off earth moving equipment or the famous Snow trains 
His factory was one of the original rapid reconfigurable manufacturing systems

----------

HobieDave (Mar 7, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

Speaking of lathes, there had to be a first one...

----------

volodar (Oct 18, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Speaking of mills, now some joker will post pix here of a Tree. 
Probably me, after work.

----------


## Jon

Tobacco factory workers and lector. 1910.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Oct 19, 2019),

Quinton 357 (Oct 18, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 17, 2019),

Tule (Oct 19, 2019),

volodar (Oct 18, 2019)

----------


## IntheGroove

Chance's are good he's reading "The Count of Monte Cristo"...

----------

jimfols (Oct 17, 2019)

----------


## Jon

I don't know how they lifted the torpedoes in the 1947 LA submarine base image, but here's a related image without such a mystery.




> Crewmen transferring a torpedo from a submarine tender to a submarine about to leave on war patrol. May 1945.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

Quinton 357 (Oct 18, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 18, 2019),

Tule (Oct 19, 2019)

----------


## volodar

> Chance's are good he's reading "The Count of Monte Cristo"...



Chances are that the picture is posed. However, it's possible that he took part in a couple of readings of whatever each day, aloud. This would entertain the workers in the pre soap-opera days on radio or tv, and possibly keep gossip and chatter down. Would also give him a chance to dress up for the women. On the left, even the stock-robot wears a tie (but no hat). My wife and I toured through a cigar rolling place somewhere in the Dominican while attending our daughter's wedding. Interesting, while tourist and sales oriented.

----------


## skibo

My Grandmother on my mother's side in the early thirties worked in a cigar factory in Kansas and my Grandmother called it a sweat shop! She did say anything that fell to the floor was used for chewing tobacco, as most of the workers were bare foot,Humm, good stuff!

----------


## Duke_of_URL

I've got a feeling he's reading about the hazards of smoking.

----------

jimfols (Oct 19, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Grumman TBF Avenger is hoisted aboard the USS _Santee_. October 1942.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Oct 20, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 19, 2019)

----------


## CharlesWaugh

Safety is very important (And I'm a guy who, after 46 years of professional table-saw use, finally got a finger mangled by one)

BUT...
Apprenticeships are gone b/c of the labor laws.

No all kids learn by book + lecture. Many are best at using their hands and brian together, but tools are all but verboten in schools these days, and kids aren't allowed to go work with a craftsman - especially at low pay.

Charles Waugh
President of The Grumpy Old Farts Club

----------


## Jon

Canning machines. J.S. Farrand Packing Co., Baltimore, MD. 1909.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Jon

> Carrying wool, Sydney, Kerry and Co, Sydney, Australia, c. 1884-1917



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Oct 23, 2019),

baja (Oct 22, 2019),

Beserkleyboy (Oct 21, 2019),

jackhoying (Oct 22, 2019),

jimfols (Oct 21, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 21, 2019),

volodar (Oct 25, 2019)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Jon,
Kerry and Co were the photography company. This picture was probably at the Wool Stores in Pyrmont, Sydney. The buildings exteriors were carefully retained and restored in the 90's and huge #s of apartments put inside. Here's a couple of links for Kerry & Co and the Wool Stores. Thanks again for the wonderful journeys through the past. Cheers
Jim in beautiful sunny Sth Coast Aus
https://pyrmonthistory.net.au/industry/wool-stores/
https://www.google.com/search?biw=13...ZMrCZ4Q4dUDCAc

----------

baja (Oct 22, 2019),

jimfols (Oct 21, 2019),

Jon (Oct 21, 2019),

volodar (Oct 25, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Good call Beserkleyboy; here's more on that photo: https://collection.maas.museum/object/29615

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Yea, I found that as well! The MAAS has 3 museums in Sydney, the largest being the Powerhouse Museum in Ultimo, Sydney (just over a small hill from the Pyrmont Wool Stores). It is a real treasure of any and all things Australian with heaps of emphasis on science and early industrial technology. A boys dream... Cheers
Jim

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Any full pictures of the above wool wagon? It seems the top of this one is masked for some reason. Maybe the guys on top were camera shy or wouldn't sign a release for their images? Robbers? Murderers? Political refugees? Three Stooges at their summer job?

----------


## Ralphxyz

That whole white cloud in the background and cutting off the guys on top of the bales is strange, wonder why someone did that?

----------


## Jon

> Logging on the Alaska Central R.R. Camp Johnston, Sept. 17th, 1905.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Oct 24, 2019),

Beserkleyboy (Oct 22, 2019),

high-side (Oct 24, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 23, 2019)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Ahhh, when high quality old growth logs made fine lumber...I'm happy I was able to experience the timber harvesting in the 60s & 70s in CA, OR and WA...despite the rapacious volumes that were taken. Modern forestry has come a huge distance, but the fast growth makes for good, quick$$, but rubbish wood...oh well..
I'm still trying to use my 25 ton supply of 'collected' wood and specialty plywood from 16 years in the AUS lumber game...
Jim

----------


## greenie

> Any full pictures of the above wool wagon? It seems the top of this one is masked for some reason. Maybe the guys on top were camera shy or wouldn't sign a release for their images? Robbers? Murderers? Political refugees? Three Stooges at their summer job?




Well actually that photo of the loaded LORRIES of wool, are only 'around town clowns', look at how many horses are hitched to the front LORRY.

Just 4 horses for about 10 ton of wool, so it would NOT be going very far with those few horses, maybe it's being moved from one wool store to another wool store just down the road. With only 4 horses hitched, they would NEVER be able to pull that load up a slight incline, let alone bring it all the way into town from miles away out bush.

A LORRY has 4 SMALL wheels and they are ALL under the loaded platform, a WAGGON, note the double 'G' which is the correct way to spell a horse drawn Waggon, has 4 wheels as well, BUT, the top of the rear wheels are always above the loaded platform and the rear wheels are a wider track than the loaded platform as well.

A Waggon that is loaded with about, say 14 tons of wool, would require at least 16 horses to move the vehicle over long distances, a big draft horse can push about 1 ton, so 16 big draft horses are capable of pushing about 16 ton.

Pushing is the correct term/name for a draft animal to move a vehicle, they PUSH into the collar, which is attached to the’Traces’, which are normally attached to a Swingle Bar ( some times the Traces are attached directly to the vehicle, but not that often ), which in turn is attached to the vehicle. So if anybody says that a horse pulls the vehicle, ask them — do they attach the Horses Tail directly to the vehicle ?

For those that have a thirst for further knowledge ---------------

https://www.notechmagazine.com/2013/...ol-wagons.html

----------

Beserkleyboy (Oct 22, 2019),

jimfols (Oct 22, 2019),

Jon (Oct 22, 2019),

volodar (Oct 25, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Lexington Kentucky police cars with built-in gun ports, 1934.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Oct 25, 2019),

high-side (Oct 25, 2019),

jimfols (Oct 24, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 24, 2019),

volodar (Oct 25, 2019)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

greenie - It looks like the waggons are also referred to as Drays as shown in the writing through whited out part. I reversed the image and can read: "Black out sky and all (unreadable word) on drays".

----------

Beserkleyboy (Oct 24, 2019),

jimfols (Oct 24, 2019)

----------


## jimfols

"Lexington Kentucky police cars with built-in gun ports, 1934."

Before two radio was in full use, I reckon each car had to be prepared to do battle on it's own.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

I was able to enhance the writing by playing with the curves, the word looks like Jyuno or Fyuno ?

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Could it be figures?

----------


## bruce.desertrat

That makes much more sense than my guess!

----------


## greenie

> greenie - It looks like the waggons are also referred to as Drays as shown in the writing through whited out part. I reversed the image and can read: "Black out sky and all (unreadable word) on drays".



Actually in Australia, the word DRAY refers to a two wheeled heavy cart, now in ENGLAND the word DRAY, does refer to a 4 wheeled vehicle.
The photo in question was taken in Australia, so who-ever wrote that on the top of the photo has used the wrong name for the vehicle.
You will see numerous photo's with the wrong description marked on them by well meaning persons.

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Guys, I'm thinking it is an 'instruction' to 'block out sky and all figures on drays', which was done in the photo we see. Cheers
Jim

----------


## Toolmaker51

re post #1152, the gunport police cars. Officer riding shotgun, literally, in vehicle [second from left] #4931 appears little too enthusiastic.
Very close to period the Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum went public; right along with expected interest from law enforcement. One goal for the designers was sufficient power to penetrate automotive body panels.
Clyde Barrow was not the only criminal using cars to hit remote locations, then escape via speed and distance. It worked until one day in Louisiana. . .

----------


## Jon

Another find from the Library of Congress. Tampa, Florida box factory in 1909.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Oct 26, 2019),

Quinton 357 (Oct 29, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 25, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Cigar boxes!

----------

jimfols (Oct 25, 2019)

----------


## jimfols

In the 1950s I hauled Connecticut shade tobacco to Tampa (once famous Cigar Capital of the World). 
As an aside, a Judge once asked me if I promised to take a certain girl to Florida. I said no Judge, I said I was gonna tampa with her.
Thanks for the memories.

----------

volodar (Oct 27, 2019)

----------


## katy

FWIW, When I was a child in the early 1950's, there was a small box factory near where I lived in Winnipeg. It was mostly a big barn like building with a small office in one corner. It was mostly women that worked there, not a lot, maybe 4 or 5. The main part of the building was unheated, even in the winter at 30 or 40 below. In those days a lot of homes and small businesses were heated with wood or coal stove(s) or furnace(s) and I assume that the owner was afraid of a fire in the building. With all the sawdust and wood dust it wouldn't have taken much to start a fire. They used a lot of used boxes and crates that were dis-assembled to get the wood for new boxes.

----------

volodar (Oct 27, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Produce packing house. Covina, California. Circa 1900.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Oct 29, 2019),

Quinton 357 (Oct 29, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 28, 2019)

----------


## 12bolts

Someone in that shot sure didn't want their face to be seen

----------

jimfols (Oct 28, 2019)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Really??? How long would it have taken to pick up that paper before the shot??? I assume they're packing grapefruit?

----------


## jimfols

"Someone in that shot sure didn't want their face to be seen "

I thought she was just having a good sneeze.  :Smile:

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Her husband probably thinks she's off having an affair! Wouldn't want to get caught in a lie like that!

----------


## Jon

> Threshing crew, Hungary, 1925.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Alan Purdy (Oct 30, 2019),

baja (Oct 30, 2019),

jimfols (Oct 29, 2019),

Quinton 357 (Oct 29, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 29, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Naval Gun Factory, Washington Navy Yard, Washington, D.C., 1890-1910.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Oct 31, 2019),

jimfols (Oct 30, 2019),

Quinton 357 (Oct 30, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 30, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

I'd like to see the lathe that cut that thread. Is that a solid piece of metal or is it screwed together?

----------


## marksbug

I think you are looking at the lathe....it's still on it.

----------


## 12bolts

I want to see the arms on the guy that ran the tap  :Lol:

----------

Toolmaker51 (Oct 31, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Wow, marksbug you are correct the chuck and drive belts are over on the right.

----------


## Jon

Washington Navy Yard female lathe operators. 1943.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Nov 1, 2019),

high-side (Oct 31, 2019),

jimfols (Oct 31, 2019),

Miloslav (Oct 31, 2019),

Quinton 357 (Oct 31, 2019),

Seedtick (Oct 31, 2019)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Huh, looks like women on the left side of the room, men on the right. Looks like a press pic too judging by the VIPs in the aisle down the shot a little.

----------


## IntheGroove

No one's hair is going get caught in the machinery there...

----------


## Ralphxyz

The third and fifth operator on the left do not look female!

----------


## IntheGroove

Don't try to guess their gender...

----------

jimfols (Oct 31, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I want to see the arms on the guy that ran the tap



Can't. Too far down in the pit to swing the tap wrench. :Lol:

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Huh, looks like women on the left side of the room, men on the right. Looks like a press pic too judging by the VIPs in the aisle down the shot a little.



Staged press shot maybe, but by 1943 a common sight never the less. And each one, another reason _we_ still speak English. . .

----------


## N00b Machinist

> The third and fifth operator on the left do not look female!



Not only that, but what in hell is going on at Station No. 4? You sure this isn't some Cinemax movie setup?

----------


## Jon

Railway personnel. Torre Pellice, Italy. 1910s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Nov 5, 2019),

Seedtick (Nov 4, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Gee, I would have loved to have one guy playing the mandolin on my work crews and they get two.

----------


## stillldoinit

I been workin on the railroad all the live long day.

----------


## IntheGroove

Some of those men haven't got their stars...

----------


## Jon

British sappers train to defuse bombs blindly. 1943. Largest image size available.

----------

baja (Nov 6, 2019),

high-side (Nov 7, 2019),

Scotty12 (Nov 5, 2019)

----------


## Scrounga

WTF? As if it’s not scary enough defusing a bomb the poms add even more excitement by making them do it blindfolded. ; )

----------


## Quinton 357

Practice makes perfect.

----------


## Frank S

> WTF? As if its not scary enough defusing a bomb the poms add even more excitement by making them do it blindfolded. ; )



The point in having them learn to defuse the explosive blind is to build a confidence in their abilities so they won't freeze when the time comes to defuse a real explosive device

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Nov 7, 2019)

----------


## Quinton 357

Correct sir.

----------


## Nick79

Combat does NOT stop at night and the need for light discipline is essential. Learning to defuse in the "dark" is very important.

----------


## Jon

Hat factory. Luton, England. 1907.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Nov 9, 2019),

Seedtick (Nov 9, 2019)

----------


## IntheGroove

You don't wear hats in a hat factory...

----------

jimfols (Nov 9, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Funny, the flat brimmed boaters on table I imagine fit post Victorian England. The wide brimmed straw hats above I just can't see worn by English. Felt or woolen sure.
But what do I know.
Certainly Queen E likes stylish hats. My Mom would always say "she'll pick-a-dilly"

----------


## greyhoundollie

Maybe each one of those guys has a different size head. They pass a new made hat around until it fits somebody who then marks the size and puts it in the storage place above his head or on the table in front of him.

----------

jimfols (Nov 9, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 9, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Pulling in fishing nets. Nazaré, Portugal. 1950.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Frank S

One time while I was in Spain near the country of Gibraltar I stopped at this one smaller village to visit their beach it happened to be fishing day though. Over in a cove the people of the town had hauled their nets out by boat the previous day and were in the process of hauling them back to shore. This scene reminds me of how they were doing it. Almost every able bodied person was helping to drag the long laden nets to shore Later they cut the fish into strips and hung the strips on fences walls lines almost everywhere that the sun shown on them to dry the strips of fish. so the practice of yesteryear still in used in modern times

----------

greyhoundollie (Nov 10, 2019)

----------


## Jon

"Yellow Bellies" grinding knives, named because of the yellow sandstone dust that would collect on their clothes. France. 1902.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Nov 13, 2019),

high-side (Nov 13, 2019),

jimfols (Nov 12, 2019),

Miloslav (Nov 16, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 12, 2019),

volodar (Nov 19, 2019)

----------


## IntheGroove

That's one way to reduce fatigue. And the dogs are a nice touch...

----------


## Frank S

> "Yellow Bellies" grinding knives, named because of the yellow sandstone dust that would collect on their clothes. France. 1902.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



Kind of sets precedence for laying down on the job doesn't it. having the grind wheels below them probably on a single long arbor driven by a single flat belt not only saves space reduces the need of many moving parts lower maintenance, allows them to grind away from themselves so sparks and dust travels away and down instead of filling the air around them. plus gives their dogs a place to lay and stay close to their owners without getting in the way.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Cool! I did not know "Bring your dog to work" day went that far back!

----------


## Ralphxyz

Why, laying on your belly? Love bringing your dog to work!

----------


## hemmjo

Cute that two of them have their dogs laying on them.

----------


## jimfols

"Yellow Bellies"
The dogs were trained to keep the grinder's legs warm.
Just when I though I knew it all.

----------


## Toolmaker51

I don't grind knives. But we [Fred, Spirit, Bear] sleep that way. They have sit and wait until I'm under covers. Best get comfy quick, one weighs 96, the other 65.
It's not new, but one thought crosses my mind often. When wild dogs or wolves were first domesticated, this likely began soon thereafter.

----------

bruce.desertrat (Nov 12, 2019)

----------


## IntheGroove

And on the coldest nights you slept with three dogs. A three dog night...

----------

jimfols (Nov 12, 2019)

----------


## neilbourjaily

It's the bassetts

----------


## Frank S

> And on the coldest nights you slept with three dogs. A three dog night...



The band is still on the tour circuit with 1 of the founders and a guitarist still going strong since the beginning 
Danny Hutton Michael Allsup
A lot of great songs back in the day

----------


## IntheGroove

Last time I saw them was June 1998 at Harrahs Tahoe...

----------


## Frank S

three dog night tour schedule now through April 2020
https://tickets-center.com/search/th...erest_ms=&vx=0

----------


## Andyt

I like where the dogs are lying.

----------


## greyhoundollie

The 2 missing dogs are probably on break. Union rules.

----------


## baja

The dog looks pretty comfortable.

----------


## 12bolts

Also where the phrase "nose to the grindstone" comes from

----------

bruce.desertrat (Nov 14, 2019),

greyhoundollie (Nov 13, 2019),

jimfols (Nov 13, 2019),

Jon (Nov 13, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 14, 2019),

volodar (Nov 19, 2019)

----------


## greyhoundollie

Lol good 12 bolts

----------


## Jon

> Shipyard crews working on submarines USS Adder and USS Moccasin at Norfolk Navy Yard, April 1904.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Nov 14, 2019),

baja (Nov 15, 2019),

high-side (Nov 16, 2019),

jimfols (Nov 14, 2019),

Paul Jones (Nov 15, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 14, 2019),

volodar (Nov 19, 2019)

----------


## greyhoundollie

I wonder at what point in time the US navy changed from naming submarines after snakes to naming them after fish? Not that it really matters much but, some one keep track of the next time they change what they name them after. I place $5.00 in the pool and vote they name them after Victoria's Secret female undies types.

----------


## mklotz

> I wonder at what point in time the US navy changed from naming submarines after snakes to naming them after fish? Not that it really matters much but, some one keep track of the next time they change what they name them after. I place $5.00 in the pool and vote they name them after Victoria's Secret female undies types.



Naming them for sea creatures was done in WWII; things have changed since then. Here a few excerpts from Wikipedia...

There are 34 Los Angeles-class submarines on active duty and 28 retired, making it the most numerous nuclear-powered submarine class in the world. Except for USS Hyman G. Rickover (SSN-709), submarines of this class are named after U.S. cities, breaking a Navy tradition of naming attack submarines after sea creatures. Ships from the USS Virginia afterwards are named after US States, a convention traditionally reserved for battleships and nuclear missile submarines. 

the U.S. Navy modified the four oldest Ohio-class Trident submarines (Ohio (SSGN-726), Michigan (SSGN-727), Florida (SSGN-728), and Georgia (SSGN-729))

The American George Washington-class "boomers" were named for patriots, and together with the Ethan Allen, Lafayette, James Madison, and Benjamin Franklin classes, these SSBNs comprised the Cold War-era "41 for Freedom." Later Ohio-class submarines were named for states (recognizing the increase in striking power and importance once bestowed upon battleships), with the exception of Henry M. Jackson (SSBN-730), which was named for United States Senator Henry M. "Scoop" Jackson (1912–1983) of Washington upon his death while in office (1983)

----------

baja (Nov 15, 2019),

Paul Jones (Nov 15, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 14, 2019)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

1921, when the Barracuda class was built:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ed_States_Navy

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I wonder at what point in time the US navy changed from naming submarines after snakes to naming them after fish? Not that it really matters much but, some one keep track of the next time they change what they name them after. I place $5.00 in the pool and vote they name them after Victoria's Secret female undies types.



Times change. Today's more [ read as 'excess' IMNSHO] creative latitude of naming capital ships is not far from selecting Vicky Snicker models. I'm glad to be retired from Naval service, there are ships I'd be unhappy representing by Command rocker on my jumper sleeve. 
USS Independence, Enterprise, Kitty Hawk, Flatley, Cowpens, et-al; that's one thing. The USS SomeBodyNotHeldInHighRegard, hell no!
In 1959 there was an undies attempt via Hollywood. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Petticoat

----------


## Frank S

Geese Louise I haven't seen that movie in what seems like 50 years

----------


## Jon

> Photograph with 2 captions: (1) "Improvement of the Mississippi River between the Illinois and Ohio Rivers" and (2) "Details of Construction. Negative 3. Taken Sept. 22, 1882. Mattress ways for making mattress 2 feet thick--used in the construction of submergible dams."



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Ralphxyz

Well I do not see any mattresses but I do see a UFO in the top left corner!

----------


## jdurand

> Well I do not see any mattresses but I do see a UFO in the top left corner!



There's an alien standing on the deck looking at us right behind that box. Short guy with a round head.

----------


## Ralphxyz

I can almost see a smile on his face/her face/it's face.

----------


## IntheGroove

That's Cap't Stan...

----------

baja (Nov 19, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 17, 2019),

volodar (Nov 19, 2019)

----------


## jdurand

I hear he has a really hard head. You could break a board over his head and he wouldn't mind at all.

But, then the mess would have to be cleaned up by Jan Itor.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Nov 17, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Plenty of 'mattresses'; those are the bound mats of tree branches. They are on the incline to get them in the water easier. Purpose is to stabilize river bottom from erosion by the current where they sink.
And Cap't Stan's job likely winches a line anchored upstream while they place mats, then pull forward incrementally.

----------


## IntheGroove

> I hear he has a really hard head. You could break a board over his head and he wouldn't mind at all.
> 
> But, then the mess would have to be cleaned up by Jan Itor.



Jans colleague in the submersible was Jacques Coustdian......

----------

Toolmaker51 (Nov 19, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> "U.S. Army Photo", number 163-12-62. Left: Patsy Simmers, holding ENIAC board Next: Mrs. Gail Taylor, holding EDVAC board Next: Mrs. Milly Beck, holding ORDVAC board Right: Mrs. Norma Stec, holding BRLESC-I board.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg




Stec and Simmers were "computers" (mathematicians/programmers). Here they are two years ago: https://apgnews.com/community-news/a...ale-computers/

----------

baja (Nov 19, 2019),

greyhoundollie (Nov 19, 2019),

HobieDave (Mar 7, 2020),

Miloslav (Nov 18, 2019),

Seedtick (Nov 18, 2019),

volodar (Nov 19, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

#1232 That's progress and today it would be a single chip and a 1000x the speed.

----------

Drew1966 (Nov 23, 2019),

greyhoundollie (Nov 19, 2019)

----------


## IntheGroove

And you will wear it like jewelry...

----------


## jdurand

Power consumption too. Our microwave oven was made in 1989 and when idle (just showing the time) it draws about as much power as my Android tablet in use. I've put a power switch on the cord and we keep if off unless in use.

As for longevity... yes that GE combination convection microwave has been in daily use since we bought it in 1989. I've replaced a door switch, vacuumed out dust, and oiled the fan motor but otherwise it's still cooking. Checked for microwave leaks with a meter, nothing unusual.

----------


## Toolmaker51

And standing behind



> "U.S. Army Photo", number 163-12-62. Left: Patsy Simmers, holding ENIAC board Next: Mrs. Gail Taylor, holding EDVAC board Next: Mrs. Milly Beck, holding ORDVAC board Right: Mrs. Norma Stec, holding BRLESC-I board. Stec and Simmers were "computers" (mathematicians/programmers).



is the proud father!

As usual I've got some smartassed comment, but read the "years later" link in Jon's post. Those ladies and photo caused a revolution.

----------


## volodar

> "Yellow Bellies" grinding knives, named because of the yellow sandstone dust that would collect on their clothes. France. 1902.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



Love the dogs...there must have been a reason for everyone to be lying down on the job...

----------


## Jon

> Patriotic Toledo girls plowing Liberty Gardens near the City. 1917.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Nov 20, 2019),

baja (Nov 21, 2019),

clydeman (Nov 20, 2019),

jimfols (Nov 20, 2019),

Quinton 357 (Nov 21, 2019),

Seedtick (Nov 20, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 20, 2019)

----------


## Jon

> Three children operating rocker at a gold mine on Dominion Creek, Yukon Territory, ca. 1898.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Nov 24, 2019),

greyhoundollie (Nov 23, 2019),

Seedtick (Nov 23, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 24, 2019)

----------


## IntheGroove

Other than the shovel and bucket, everything is homemade...

----------


## jimfols

"Three children operating rocker at a gold mine on Dominion Creek, Yukon Territory, ca. 1898."

Good or bad situation, at least they had parental guidance.

----------


## Frank S

All 3 of them have the expression on their face as if to say take the picture already we have work to do. Especially the boy operating the crank on the windless

----------


## Ralphxyz

Is that a big dog to left of them? It looks like the pulley is to pull up buckets from a well.

----------


## hemmjo

That is probably not a well, it is a mine. The kids parents, or maybe brothers or sisters are most likely down there filling the bucket with what they hope is gold bearing rock. The boy on the left has a "prospectors hammer" on his shoulder. 

Brings to mind the saying: 

"Hard times make strong men(people),
Strong men make good times,
Good times make weak men,
Weak men make hard times!"

Repeat

----------

volodar (Nov 25, 2019)

----------


## Drew1966

Theyre saying that the girl on the left is Greta Thunberg. Just goes to show what idiots some folks truly are.

----------


## greyhoundollie

Yet even the family labor is home made.

----------


## greyhoundollie

Who knows it could be Greta's great grandmother. Family resemblance runs deep.

----------


## Jon

Aircraft engine repair crew. Fort Sill, Oklahoma. 1918.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Nov 24, 2019),

baja (Nov 26, 2019),

jackhoying (Nov 25, 2019),

jimfols (Nov 24, 2019),

Lee Bell (Nov 30, 2019),

Seedtick (Nov 26, 2019)

----------


## IntheGroove

Looks like a Wright-Hisso...

----------


## Jon

USS _B-3 Tarantula_ and crew near the New York Navy Yard. 1909.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg




More:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_B-3
Submarine Photo Index

----------

jimfols (Nov 25, 2019),

Miloslav (Nov 25, 2019),

Seedtick (Nov 26, 2019)

----------


## NeiljohnUK

> They’re saying that the girl on the left is Greta Thunberg. Just goes to show what idiots some folks truly are.



Looking at the picture on a normal screen I suspect they maybe correct, up to a point, and it maybe a clever 'photoshop' insert job, the focus and clarity on the girls face doesn't match most of the rest of the photo, but without the original negative who can say?

----------


## Toolmaker51

Greta Thunberg circa 1898? If 121 years transpired since then, you'd hope she'd have polished a more distinct resume and skills bundle than what is apparent. 
Then again, her buzz circles Twitter and Facebook more than anywhere else; a lot of folks grasp at such things.
Sans the www., a safe bet that majority would be asking "Greta who?"

Regarding faces, there may be only so many to go around. Haven't we all have seen examples of certainly unrelated persons who look uncannily alike?

----------


## Frank S

> Regarding faces, there may be only so many to go around. Haven't we all have seen examples of certainly unrelated persons who look uncannily alike?



If I ever find my doppelganger I'm going to hire him if I can or go to work for him which ever the case may turn out if he is at all anything like me it would be safe top state that either of us could use the help. :Beer:

----------


## Jon

Quincy, Massachusetts fire brigade. Circa 1900.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Nov 27, 2019),

MeJasonT (Dec 1, 2019),

Seedtick (Nov 26, 2019)

----------


## skibo

Not to mention most every man wore a hat in those days, but but they also had mustache's to fill out the time period, not to say the Millennials will be left in the dust with their beards and black framed glasses today!

----------

greyhoundollie (Nov 27, 2019)

----------


## 12bolts

No Dalmatian?

----------


## IntheGroove

And only one guy has a Fireman's hat...

----------

Beserkleyboy (Nov 27, 2019)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Mate...Tahoe...I was first at the lake at 2...(I've got a picture...) and every summer with family and grandparents at Mullhollands(sp) trailer park at Incline Beach, now the back of a resort. Skied extensively north and south in 70s...lived and worked South Lake in early 80s, emigrated to AUS 87...visited with mum, in her last year, in '01. The lake is part of my DNA...keep it well, mate...cheers
Jim, 
now in Sunny South Coast NSW, AUS

----------


## IntheGroove

We got over a foot of snow overnight and more on the way...

----------


## Pa1963

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stec and Simmers were "computers" (mathematicians/programmers). Here they are two years ago: https://apgnews.com/community-news/a...ale-computers/



I thought they were the distaff version of the Harmonicats.

----------

jimfols (Nov 27, 2019),

MeJasonT (Dec 1, 2019)

----------


## greyhoundollie

is that Greta Thunberg peeking out the 2nd story window? Oh wait that's not her. That's Kilroy

----------


## Jon

London dustcart. 1910.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Nov 29, 2019),

baja (Nov 30, 2019),

Seedtick (Nov 29, 2019)

----------


## IntheGroove

I like that curved ladder...

----------

jackhoying (Nov 30, 2019)

----------


## Moby Duck

I see no horses. I wonder if the other three men are on the traces and employed as cart pullers. There must have been huge amounts of "dust" when these carts got their name.

----------


## Ralphxyz

I'am having a hard time comprehending "Dust Cart".

----------


## IntheGroove

Dust=dung...

----------


## 12bolts

Dust = Rubbish



> Dust=dung...



Its a British term, also carried over to (some of) the colonies. We used to put out our Dustbins weekly for collection. Now its our Wheelies.

Cheers Phil

----------


## Jon

Engine room of the HMHS _Brittanic_ under construction.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg




More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMHS_Britannic

----------

baja (Dec 7, 2019),

high-side (Dec 6, 2019),

jimfols (Dec 6, 2019),

Miloslav (Dec 6, 2019),

Seedtick (Dec 6, 2019)

----------


## mklotz

Every time the subject of the _Britannic_ surfaces, I'm reminded of the story of Violet Jessop...

Violet Constance Jessop (2 October 1887  5 May 1971) was an Irish Argentine ocean liner stewardess and nurse who is known for surviving the disastrous sinkings of both RMS _Titanic_ and her sister ship, HMHS _Britannic_, in 1912 and 1916, respectively. In addition, she had been on board RMS _Olympic_, the eldest of the three sister ships, when it collided with a British warship Called HMS _Hawke_, in 1911.

Full story here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violet_Jessop

----------

baja (Dec 7, 2019),

volodar (Dec 6, 2019)

----------


## skibo

Oh boy, that is one engine room I'd love to see in action, today they are mainly big diesels or steam turbine's, BORING! But all those reciprocating rods and the sounds of life you can actually see everything, it all comes to life.

----------


## Jon

Norfolk & Western maintenance shop.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...p_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Dec 7, 2019),

Seedtick (Dec 7, 2019)

----------


## skibo

I love those compound locomotives, this one looks to be a Challenger, with twelve drivers, it was smaller than the Union Pacific's Bigboy, but the Challenger had more traction effort than Bigboy's 16 drivers, due to less weight per driver!

----------

jimfols (Dec 7, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

All of those BIG old machines fascinate me. I was fortunate enough to visit the Forney Musuem of Transportation in Denver, Colorado last summer. 
( https://www.forneymuseum.org/ )

Sitting outside the humble building, waiting for it to open, I was thinking, "this is going to be a wasted day." I was sure surprised when I got inside. The contents of the building is amazing, I did not want to leave, but others were hungry, and we had a schedule to keep. 

It is humbling to stand beside the "BigBoy" locomotive and try to imagine the iron men that designed and built the behemoth of a machine.

----------

bruce.desertrat (Dec 7, 2019),

jimfols (Dec 7, 2019)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Thanks for that mention; the Forney museum sounds fascinating; my brother-in law and his wife live near-ish there, be fun to take it in next time we go visit them.

----------


## IntheGroove

I am a sucker for bridge cranes...

----------


## mrz80

> I love those compound locomotives, this one looks to be a Challenger, with twelve drivers, it was smaller than the Union Pacific's Bigboy, but the Challenger had more traction effort than Bigboy's 16 drivers, due to less weight per driver!



The photo is of Norfolk and Western #2180 . It's a Y-6 class 2-8-8-2 articulated. The N&W Ys were among the largest and most powerful steam locomotives ever operated (the UP's 4-8-8-4 Big Boys were larger and faster, but with less tractive effort, and the Virginian's 2-10-10-2s had higher tractive effort but at a much lower speed). They were used for heavy freight and coal trains in the mountains, moving to mine runs as diesels finally started displacing steam in the late 50s. There exists one remaining example of the type, nonoperational, in a museum.

----------

Jon (Dec 9, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Dairy factory workers posing beside butter churns. New Zealand.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...y_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Dec 9, 2019),

baja (Dec 11, 2019),

jimfols (Dec 9, 2019)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Preparing the supply for an episode of Paula Deen's cooking show....

----------

baja (Dec 11, 2019),

jimfols (Dec 9, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

Or Perhaps preparing the butter for the sculptures at The Ohio State Fair. Looks like that might be just about enough to do the job. I guess shipping might be a problem from New Zealand to Ohio, USA. 

A snip from this site https://ohiostatefair.com/butter-cow/
"In the early 1900s, The Ohio State University and the Dairy Processors of Ohio sponsored butter sculpting contests at the Ohio State Fair. The subjects of these contests were not restricted to specific things. In 1903, the first butter cow and calf were featured at the Fair, sculpted by A. T. Shelton & Company, distributors of Sunbury Co-Operative Creamery butter."


A snip from this site https://ohiostatefair.com/butter-cow/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

----------


## IntheGroove

The bullwheel is as big as the churn barrels...

----------


## owen moore

I believe the butter is going on some ones order at Red Lobster.

----------


## Frank S

I use a lot of butter on my waffles or pancakes but just 1 of those blobs of butter would last me a life time. But I could have used it to grease the train rails where I used to live to stop the dang trains

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Moonshiner's Cow Hoof shoes used to throw off the authorities.



I debated if this went in "Vintage Work Crew Photos" but those guys had to work hard for their money!

----------

Andyt (Dec 11, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Red Cross group. Washington, D.C., circa 1920.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...p_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Dec 11, 2019),

Seedtick (Dec 11, 2019)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

They've caught drug smugglers trying this here on the SW border. Kinda hard to fool any trackers since bipeds can't really recreate a quadruped's walking gait.

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

At least this one is somewhat about woodworking and creating your own tools!

Bootlegger's Delivery Truck:

----------


## hemmjo

> At least this one is somewhat about woodworking and creating your own tools!
> 
> Bootlegger's Delivery Truck:



If that was such a FULL load of lumber on that single axle truck, it would certainly be sagging, and the tires squished unless they were solids.

----------


## Ralphxyz

Details details

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Yea. old timber merchant, me, always calculated actual load weights...I get approx 15 wide x 26 high, look to be rough sawn 2x4s, assume 8', assume Doug Fir ...would be about 2.8 US tons!

Jim

----------


## Denis G

> I love those compound locomotives, this one looks to be a Challenger, with twelve drivers, it was smaller than the Union Pacific's Bigboy, but the Challenger had more traction effort than Bigboy's 16 drivers, due to less weight per driver!



According to this article:
https://www.railarchive.net/bigboys/index.html

Union Pacific Big Boy tractive force = 135,375 lbf
Union Pacific Challenger tractive force = 97,300 lbf

Usually you want more weight on drivers to increase traction (air foils on racing cars improved tractive performance when they were introduced).

----------


## Jon

Amtrak's Beech Grove Shops. Circa 1910.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Dec 13, 2019),

greyhoundollie (Dec 13, 2019),

high-side (Dec 14, 2019),

Seedtick (Dec 13, 2019)

----------


## skibo

Looks like an old real woody to me!

----------


## Ralphxyz

Amtrak? 1910 seems a bit early.

----------


## IntheGroove

Lounge against the machine...

----------


## hemmjo

Looks like a refurbishing shop, since the numbers on the various units are so widely spread out. I can only make out 96 and 319. Even though they appear very similar, there are noticeable design differences in each unit. Specifically the headlights, and the braces running from the main body down to the "bumper".

----------


## gatz

Wikipedia has some info...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beech_Grove_Shops

----------


## IntheGroove

I'm sure there was no assembly line for locomotives. Each one is unique in some way...

----------


## Ralphxyz

So Amtrak owns the facility now but when the picture was taken it was owned by Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago and St. Louis Railway! 
Thanks for the Wiki link, it is so interesting. 
My home town had a Boston and Maine roundhouse facility which I was always fascinated with, of course it was no longer functioning as a railroad facility,
but the turntable was still there.

----------


## raildr

yes sir, no Amtrak until 1971

----------


## Jon

Workers with the steam engine of the Civil War era USS _Kearsage_. 1861.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kearsarge_(1861)

----------

Seedtick (Dec 14, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

I had to go get my reading glasses, to make sure that guy in the Top Hat was not Abraham Lincoln.

That big ole machinery always impresses me.

----------


## Jon

Cannery workers. Pacific Northwest. Circa 1909.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Dec 16, 2019),

Miloslav (Dec 16, 2019)

----------


## IntheGroove

I wonder how many of those ladies got their apron caught in the gears...

----------


## jimfols

"I wonder how many of those ladies got their apron caught in the gears... "

I agree, though I would add that ladies are not usually as unaware as their male counterparts.

----------


## gatz

that's probably 'cause men are thinking about "other things"

----------


## Frank S

> I wonder how many of those ladies got their apron caught in the gears...



Probably not as many as you might think,

----------


## 12bolts

#1302 
Lady 3rd from the back, (2nd) facing the camera, seems to have some sort of "doohickey" directly in front of her nose.
Lady 3rd from the front, back to the camera, also seems to have similar sort of "watchamacallit" near her face.

----------


## Ralphxyz

2nd lady facing camera certainly is not concerned with the drive belts probable a foot or so away. I imagine the noise in the shop probable would violate OSHA standards.

----------


## Jon

Programmers Betty Jean Jennings and Frances Bilas operate the ENIAC computer. Circa 1946.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...c_fullsize.jpg




More:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Bartik
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Spence

----------

jimfols (Dec 16, 2019),

Miloslav (Dec 16, 2019),

Seedtick (Dec 16, 2019)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

2nd lady from the back on the left appears to be Ms. Nosferatu

----------


## Jon

Pinstriping workers at a Hudson factory in Detroit. Circa 1930.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Dec 20, 2019),

baja (Dec 20, 2019),

Miloslav (Dec 19, 2019),

old_toolmaker (Dec 19, 2019),

Seedtick (Dec 19, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Circa 1930, I wonder if they were testing prototype Buegler pinstripe tools; introduced 1934, pat'd 1935.

----------


## Jon

> Circa 1930, I wonder if they were testing prototype Buegler pinstripe tools; introduced 1934, pat'd 1935.



Did somebody say "patent"?

US Patent 1,988,710, Granted to S. B. Beugler in 1935

----------

Toolmaker51 (Dec 21, 2019)

----------


## skibo

I see they were wearing shorter dresses than usual, maybe for safety reasons, but why the 2-3" heels,they had to sore feet after work!

----------


## hemmjo

I was taken by the clean, bright work space. 

Also the five women on the near side of the line appear to be working, the 4 on the other side, looking through the windows, appear to be watching the camera.

----------

old_toolmaker (Dec 19, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Fish splitting. Biddeford Pool, Maine. 1880.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Dec 20, 2019),

Seedtick (Dec 21, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 21, 2019)

----------


## IntheGroove

The smell...

----------

Andyt (Dec 20, 2019)

----------


## skibo

I could smell it the minute I opened it!

----------


## hemmjo

The smell was my first thought also.

----------


## Toolmaker51

Evy'buddies joking about the smell. When I saw and clicked the pic my reaction was similar, thinking "good thing THAT didn't get recorded!"

And what ever reason, I forget to investigate patents. I'm vaguely familiar with striping tools. Compared with 'artistic' stripers with fine brushes, mechanical stripers are miniature paint rollers. Ideal for a long parallel line. Wheels can be interchanged for width and combinations of width.
But either way, it's all in the little finger!

----------


## jdurand

They're all from Salt Lake City so they didn't notice any smell.

Paused once along the Great Salt Lake for a rest and someone else stopped, inhaled deeply and said "I come here for the fresh air."

----------


## Jon

Hoover Dam drilling crew. 1932.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Dec 24, 2019),

hansgoudzwaard (Dec 23, 2019),

ranald (Dec 22, 2019),

Seedtick (Dec 23, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Makes me wonder. A lot of agencies were involved on projects such as this. All of them remain stunning to see, like old Federal Court House in Los Angeles.
Being creation of president Hoover and FDR, this pave way for desegregation of US Military?

----------


## ranald

The smiles look truely genuine. Of course a paying job doing anything in '32 would cause smiles & the whole country benefited.

----------


## Jon

Building a lifesize 1949 Lincoln clay model.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Dec 25, 2019),

clydeman (Dec 24, 2019),

jimfols (Dec 24, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jan 1, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 25, 2019)

----------


## hemmjo

Each of the 3 workers is wearing a tie!!!

----------

jimfols (Dec 24, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 25, 2019)

----------


## ranald

Be good to see a later shot just before completition.

That could be called " a Woody". I like the use and precission of a hand drill despite electric ones available at the time

----------


## Frank S

A tie is only good to have around is you are expecting to be hung by it. So said my grandfather who was a carpenter a framer finished and cabinet maker in his later years his roots went back to farming. One day a man showed up at the family farm looking for work he was wearing sturdy work clothes and a tie. 
Gramps told him son I don't think you will work out here. 
Why not sir?
nothing personal it is just the only men who wear ties are lawyers Politian's and mucky mucks who think their worth is more than it is. I can buy many of them for what they think they are worth then sell them for what they are really worth and the deduction on my taxes would offset my loss.
I only wore the tie to make a first impression sir. 
Well you did now seek employment elsewhere had you showed up with calluses on your hands and a pair of fence gloves in your back pocket I might have tried you out he said. 
I've lived by that all my life

----------


## jimfols

> Each of the 3 workers is wearing a tie!!!



And not a hat in the whole shop.

----------


## Frank S

> And not a hat in the whole shop.



and some of those workers really could have benefited by having a cap

----------


## IntheGroove

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night...

----------

jimfols (Dec 24, 2019)

----------


## Jon

Splicing the Alaska telegraph cable at Smith's Cove, Seattle. Circa 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

greyhoundollie (Dec 26, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jan 1, 2020),

Seedtick (Dec 25, 2019)

----------


## Frank S

Smile for the camera

----------


## Ralphxyz

My brother in law was a cable splicer for the phone company, turned out he was color blind. Always wondered why there was such lousy phone service in the area.

----------

baja (Dec 26, 2019),

greyhoundollie (Dec 26, 2019),

jimfols (Dec 25, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jan 1, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Building a lifesize 1949 Lincoln clay model.



Any notice the lofting frame, far right?

----------


## greyhoundollie

Is the guy wearing the derby hat wearing Dutch wooden shoes?

----------


## mwmkravchenko

> Smile for the camera



And don't move!

----------


## Frank S

> Is the guy wearing the derby hat wearing Dutch wooden shoes?



I can't tell if they are clogs or not but he sure has a flat instep for the length of his feet

----------

greyhoundollie (Dec 26, 2019)

----------


## greyhoundollie

You're right I didn't notice that before. Kind of like his feet are sneaking up on his clogs and hasn't quite finished the process yet.

----------


## Jon

July, 1942. More at the Library of Congress.




> The finished gas mask face pieces in the foreground were just flaps of rubber without eye pieces, outlet valves, straps, tabs, and other accessories when they started on the long moving belt at the far end of the line. By the time they've reached this end, however, a hundred pairs of hands have worked on them, machining, clamping, riveting, testing, and inspecting each one until the completed masks are packaged in the final stages of production. All this activity takes place in a Midwest vacuum cleaner plant which has been converted to war work. Eureka Vacuum, Detroit, Michigan.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Dec 27, 2019)

----------


## Jon

July, 1942. More at the Library of Congress.




> The finished gas mask face pieces in the foreground were just flaps of rubber without eye pieces, outlet valves, straps, tabs, and other accessories when they started on the long moving belt at the far end of the line. By the time they've reached this end, however, a hundred pairs of hands have worked on them, machining, clamping, riveting, testing, and inspecting each one until the completed masks are packaged in the final stages of production. All this activity takes place in a Midwest vacuum cleaner plant which has been converted to war work. Eureka Vacuum, Detroit, Michigan.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Dec 28, 2019),

greyhoundollie (Dec 27, 2019),

jimfols (Dec 27, 2019),

Seedtick (Dec 27, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 27, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

re post #1340 , Eureka Vacuum, Detroit.
While "All Hands" is a nautical term it fits here. Every society functions best when each performs their assignment toward a common goal. All for one is kind, one for all is noble.
I do not care that many "E", War Bond, and corporate shots were staged. A big part just met demands of security, lighting, and photography in general. That a walk [nearly worldwide] into a surplus store, [I]70-odd years hence[I] proves the accomplishment.

Elsewhere a funny thing. At any instant, a few nations display how their process 'works'. 
We know their government media is only able to portray it, therefore falsely.

Jon. I'm glad such things were recorded for posterity, education, even enjoyment. Each holds a lesson. Keep them coming.

----------

greyhoundollie (Dec 27, 2019)

----------


## Jon

1920s Cape Cod Canal work crew.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Dec 29, 2019),

baja (Dec 30, 2019),

greyhoundollie (Dec 30, 2019),

jimfols (Dec 29, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jan 1, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Pioneers of the production line, these two young workers are among the first women ever to operate a centerless grinder, a machine requiring both the knowledge of precision measuring instruments, and considerable experience and skill in setting up. In this Midwest drill and tool plant, manned almost exclusively by women, centerless grinders have been efficiently operated by women for more than a year, and company production figures have continued to soar. Republic Drill and Tool Company, Chicago, Illinois. 1942.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Dec 30, 2019),

jimfols (Dec 30, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jan 1, 2020),

Seedtick (Dec 30, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 30, 2019)

----------


## greyhoundollie

Kind of hard to tell what is going on in this barge on the canal. 

It looks like those might be some type of pumps (2 items) driven by manual power. But with the lines seemingly tied to one of the wheels of one pump would keep that from happening.

What is the large line running under the barge supposed to do? Is it a line that another craft, like a ferry across the canal, is normally used to move the ferry from one side to the other side of the canal?

Is the "barge" in which the work men are standing actually 2 barges tied together?

----------


## 12bolts

It does look like 2 barges "rafted" together. The 2 pumps are hand cranked diving compressors, somebody has just draped some lines over them. The 2 men rear centre, wearing beanies, are divers in standard dress.

Cheers Phil

----------

greyhoundollie (Dec 30, 2019)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg



Post #1344 .
Think about that, and fact of not only instance of such a report. _manned almost exclusively by women, centerless grinders have been efficiently operated by women for more than a year, and company production figures have continued to soar._

----------


## greyhoundollie

Thanks Phil. I hadn't noticed the the dive gear the beanie guys are wearing. Good catch. Do you think the 4 guys in the right hand area could have an "air line" stretching off in the distance to the right to a possible 3rd diver in the water somewhere?



Richard

----------


## IntheGroove

But what could they possibly be doing in that frigid water?

----------

greyhoundollie (Dec 30, 2019)

----------


## 12bolts

Richard, not with those air pumps unmanned.

Cheers Phil

----------


## jdurand

Could they be repairing a cable laid in the canal? The guy on the right could be hauling it in, goes across the barge and off the back. Divers in case of hangup.

----------


## 12bolts

By the look of the divers on the barge, they have secured something on the bottom and now it is being recovered.

Cheers Phil

----------


## greyhoundollie

Yes In The Groove. I started thinking about that too when Phil brought up the Bennie guys in dive gear. That water has to be no warmer than 32.001 F! And I bet that you have a bit of trouble having a divers BRASS HAT maintain a warm temperature. I guess the dive compressor warms the air a little as it is placed under pressure but the helmet is surrounded by freezing water the whole time. How about it Phil?

----------


## Jon

Workers installing Henderson Street trunk sewer. Seattle, Washington, 1937.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Dec 31, 2019),

baja (Jan 1, 2020),

greyhoundollie (Dec 31, 2019),

mwmkravchenko (Dec 31, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Jan 1, 2020),

Seedtick (Dec 31, 2019)

----------


## Ralphxyz

A wooden sewer line? Was it covered with cement? Probable empting directly to the bay after all the solution to pollution was dilution.

----------

greyhoundollie (Dec 31, 2019)

----------


## greyhoundollie

1937.... I wonder if it has been replaced by now?

----------


## IntheGroove

This photo is why OSHA and the EPA were established...

----------


## skibo

Weyrhauser Pulp mill where I worked for forty years, we had miles of wood staved water and pulp lines, all made of redwood ceder that were more than 80 years old. As long as the lines were wet, the ceder wood never rotted. We had some leak now and then and if they had a hole in them from a knot in the wood gone bad, the pipe fitters plugged the leak with a redwood dowel! There were many wooden lines that were underground since the early thirties that was still good but the State told them to replace them with stainless steel because they might leak, they were still perfectly good lines. The pulp mill pumped water from the Columbia River every day for making pulp by the millions of gallons daily!

----------


## greyhoundollie

Yep underground filled with water no oxygen I can see where it would not rot especially since it was redwood. I have dug up cypress trees on my property 100 ft deep that were buried for a few thousand years. Even the bark looked like the tree had been felled last week. If I could have gotten the wood up in longer pieces than 12" I would have made a dinner table out of it.

----------


## skibo

Yup, I believe it, There is a family somewhere up state Washington that have bogs where they unearth hundred of years's old redwood ceder wood and have made a sizable fortune from it for furniture for the rich!

----------


## 12bolts

->greyhoundollie The air is warmed by compressing, but by the time it makes its way through a hundred feet of exposed hose and then when the pressure is released into the hat it comes out quite cool! You head is not generally touching the hat so there is little conduction there. For cold water you rug up in thermals and work hard!

Cheers Phil

----------

jimfols (Jan 1, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 1, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Rug up! 
I do that just getting _to_ work...

----------


## DIYSwede

Built as standard gauge series number 2 of the FAIRLIE ENGINE AND STEAM CARRIAGE CO. LONDON.
"Double Fairlies" were articulated, all wheel driven mostly for steep, small radii narrow gauge railroads.
The first delivered were to Ffestiniog Railway in Wales. (Note 1)



#2 was delivered as Nässjö-Oskarshamns Järnväg's locomotive #1, bought and renamed "Hultenheim" in 1874. (Note 2)
It was owned and used by the contractor, Morton's, for building the very same railroad during its first years.

*32 years later, at 11.25 AM on Tuesday, April 8th 1902, this had happened:*



*-What series of events led to a 28+ metric ton locomotive levitating upwards, out of its shed 
and plummet down on a small hill 25 metres away?*

Closest shed brick wall is gone, the other propped up, the ceiling blown off.



Amazingly, no one of the seven persons in the shed was killed in the accident.
Casualties: 
C.M. Sand, Chief Engineer (also young stoker at the top pic) had one lower leg broken off and lacerations.
J. Nilsson, Supervisor, also suffered a leg broken as well as lacerations.
C. Petterson, lacerations and concussions from getting hit by flying wooden beams from the former ceiling.
*So - what happened, and why?*



The #1 loco have had a 30 year service, and was overhauled at Eksjö to finally become a shunter.
Note the boiler pic above - rather two boilers back-to-back with a firebox each.

Hot pressure testing had started without realizing that a lead washer,
used from the previous cold pressure test to protect the gauge, was still in place.
_-Did I forget to mention the safety valves had also been firmly tightened down?_
This washer apparently had a smallish pore in it - as the gauge climbed during firing,
finally to set at at an comfortable 8 atm (130 psi) *in spite of further stoking.*

This continued for a good while, but when the Chief Engineer perceived something was very wrong,
and finally yelling for the fire to be put out, the loco *took off thru the ceiling*, just leaving its two drive bogies behind.

 

*-Why UPWARDS, you probably ask?*
Seems like the 2 boiler ends towards the fire boxes gave in (or rather out), converting the superheated liquid water
into a pillar of expanding steam going downwards, blowing away the grates and ashpans, lifting the upper loco part,
tearing off the steam tube bogie pivots leaving the cylinder frames on the shed's track.
View from below, upwards into the fireboxes:



Boiler explosions from firebox failures in ordinary locomotives usually result in more *horizontal missiles*:

 

But as the Fairlie had two boilers back-to-back, the steam had *nowhere else to go but downwards*,
thus raising the loco up, up and away. Pretty simple, eh? Case closed.

-Now try to figure out the reasons for this pic from Strömmen, Norway in 1889:



Thanks for putting up with my story this far!

Johan


1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ffestiniog_Railway *Yep - they're still building Fairlies...*
2) http://www.georgeengland.org/2016-11...any-1869--1870

----------

Beserkleyboy (Jan 2, 2020),

Frank S (Jan 2, 2020),

hemmjo (Jan 2, 2020),

HobieDave (Mar 8, 2020),

jimfols (Jan 2, 2020),

Jon (Jan 2, 2020),

mwmkravchenko (Jan 2, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 2, 2020)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

DIY Swede, thank you for the detailed history! I had the pleasure of riding the Ffestiniog Railway in 1985...of course with no knowledge other than it went UP with great power...we toured thes slate mine, and I, in my would be explorer mind (32), decided the fast way down was overthe side, rather than wait for the train...well, the 'side' was the steep embankment, 1:1, of slate slag, for about 400 mtr...my my...I did not beat the train...if you get the chance, Wales has heaps of attractions to explore, none better than Port Merion, the model Italianate village used in 'The Prisoner' series with Patrick McGoohan and his Lotus Super 7...well worth watching...#6...cheers from the fire raveged South Coast of NSW, AUS...
Jim

----------


## hemmjo

That is indeed a fascinating account of the "flight of Fairlie". All of those old engineering marvels fascinate me.

----------


## Jon

Standpipe construction crew. Billerica, Massachusetts. Circa 1900.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Jan 11, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 11, 2020)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Unsupervised work crew! (no one in a suit and tie!)

----------

greyhoundollie (Jan 11, 2020)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

That's a real testament to the coopers of the area! The whole thing is sitting on 8 or 9 barrels. I wonder how many times they crawled under it!? I love the little Irish guy on the right in the back! How do I know he's Irish? Just look at him!

----------

greyhoundollie (Jan 11, 2020),

jimfols (Jan 11, 2020)

----------


## hemmjo

When start to think of them building that, one of the first thoughts is, how did they drill all those holes? Did they match drill them. Or were they that good they the parts could be pre-drilled, then assembled like that and the rivets still fit. Always amazing to see the old photos.

----------

greyhoundollie (Jan 11, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 11, 2020)

----------


## greyhoundollie

I wonder why the guy smoking a pipe standing left of center has a bullet hole in his hat?

----------


## volodar

> Standpipe construction crew. Billerica, Massachusetts. Circa 1900.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



That is a storage tank. We had one of those in our private water district, capacity 15,000 imperial gallons atop a 40 foot tower, now decommissioned. We still have standpipes at intervals along our underground watermain - 2 inch, 3 foot verticals terminated in capped firehose thread. Originally intended to serve as fire hydrants, they are still classified as such for home insurance. Now used periodically to clear watermain sediment. In the photo, the predrilled holes in the tank wall sections are temporarily registered at intervals with bolts and nuts acting as clecos clamps. The bullet hole in the pipe smoker's hat looks like the ace of spades.

----------

Quinton 357 (Jan 18, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 11, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

I wonder if the water tank is still there?

----------


## Jon

> Employer resistance to the hiring of women workers in war industries is rapidly becoming a thing of the past, and this young employee of a Midwest aircraft motor plant embodies the reasons for this change of heart. With no previous industrial experience, she mastered the operation of this compressed-air machine in record time, and is now polishing airplane motor parts with speed and skill. August 1942.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...1_fullsize.jpg


Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...2_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jan 12, 2020),

jimfols (Jan 11, 2020),

Seedtick (Jan 11, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 11, 2020),

volodar (Jan 12, 2020)

----------


## clavius

> I wonder if the water tank is still there?



Billerica is just a a short drive from here. I wonder if the source for the photo gives some idea of the specific location? There is more than one such water tower in town.

----------


## jimfols

> Billerica is just a a short drive from here. I wonder if the source for the photo gives some idea of the specific location? There is more than one such water tower in town.



I was searching for stand pipes and found this:

https://books.google.com/books?id=lO...dpipes&f=false

Way Way too much to read but lots of great old photos and drawings.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> When start to think of them building that, one of the first thoughts is, how did they drill all those holes? Did they match drill them. Or were they that good they the parts could be pre-drilled, then assembled like that and the rivets still fit. Always amazing to see the old photos.



Very possible the holes weren't drilled, but punched. More rapid, better size control. Spacing not critical project to project, just that at hand. I'd guess plates were holed flat then rolled. Aren't boilers etc drilled on specific centers? The drum diameter and plate length adjusted to overlap X amount of times? If spacing correct, the lap absorbs extra material.
Hardest part might be jacking the ends closed. 
But they did so; on a regular basis.

----------

volodar (Jan 12, 2020)

----------


## Jon

USS _Seawolf_ receives her new "special projects" hull section. Mare Island, California. June 1971.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jan 12, 2020),

volodar (Jan 13, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Pig iron casting. Iroquois Smelter, Chicago. 1890s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg

----------

greyhoundollie (Jan 13, 2020),

jimfols (Jan 13, 2020),

Seedtick (Jan 13, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 13, 2020)

----------


## jimfols

"Pig iron casting. Iroquois Smelter, Chicago. 1890s."

Thanks Jon,
I am reading the book "Sloss Furnaces and the Rise of the Birmingham District".
I had heard the term 'pig iron' but never knew the reason for it.

----------

greyhoundollie (Jan 13, 2020),

VinnieL (Jan 13, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

and the reason for the tem "pig iron" is?

----------

greyhoundollie (Jan 13, 2020),

Made Home (Jan 13, 2020)

----------


## Frank S

> and the reason for the tem "pig iron" is?



Pig Iron is the result of the first smelting of ore very high in carbon and silica plus other impurities back in the day it was molded in a long trench with several out cropping ingot sized molds in the sand or dirt. the long trench or runner was called the sow which serves the same purpose as sprew runners in molds . once the raw iron had cooled the ingots were broken off from the sow or runner hence the term pig iron. these pigs would be heated again to white hot now this is called a sponge and the sponge is beaten and beaten to remove more of the impurities then reheated again in a cauldron until liquified this would be poured into molds and now once cooled would be cast iron or while being heated certain elements could be added to make steel which would be hammered and hammered while cooling the now steel can be heated again and forged or forced through dies to form shapes or long bars which could be rolled into sheets

----------

Rikk (Jan 13, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 13, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Cork-screw tails or interesting little tale, I knew someone would reveal this.
Jaded columnists have declared the internet 'dead', stripped of participants who energized it.
They're obviously hooked on the wrong sites.

----------


## Ralphxyz

So in #1378 are they standing on the Sow?

----------


## VinnieL

Pig iron is simply a crudely refined iron ore that contains lots of impurities. It is made by melting down the ore and pouring it into ingots or "pigs" of iron to make it easier to transport . The original smelting of the iron does remove much of the bulk and some impurities, but it must be further refined before it is useable.

----------


## baja

> and the reason for the tem "pig iron" is?



The traditional shape of the molds used for pig iron ingots was a branching structure formed in sand, with many individual ingots at right angles[3] to a central channel or "runner", resembling a litter of piglets being suckled by a sow. When the metal had cooled and hardened, the smaller ingots (the "pigs") were simply broken from the runner (the "sow"), hence the name "pig iron". From Wikipedia

----------


## Jon

> Dayton, Ohio, 1904. "Tool room of the National Cash Register Co." A case study in belt-and-pulley power transmission. George R. Lawrence Co.



Credit to mklotz for finding this image.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...m_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jan 15, 2020),

greyhoundollie (Jan 14, 2020),

high-side (Jan 14, 2020),

Seedtick (Jan 14, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 14, 2020)

----------


## Rikk

What struck me right away is that with all that intricate, small work, no one is wearing eyeglasses. Maybe too early in history for them to be that common?

----------


## IntheGroove

I wonder what it would sound like in that shop...

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Just noticed that fine pair of legs in the right foreground and got to looking. Sure looks like 3 or 4 South Bend Lathes!

----------


## stillldoinit

Yeh I thought about safety glasses too, where was OSHA when you need them.

----------


## jdurand

As for no eyeglasses for vision, I believe we've evolved to have bad eyes. In the past if you had bad eyes you wouldn't have kids as you'd make mistakes like thinking that bull was a fine woman...

----------

jimfols (Jan 15, 2020),

Rikk (Jan 15, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 15, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Russian Project 941 Typhoon submarine under construction. Excellent gallery is here.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Rangi (Jan 17, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 1, 2020),

Seedtick (Jan 15, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 15, 2020)

----------


## McDesign

> Excellent gallery is here[/url].]



Wow! That's a rabbit hole!

----------


## Jon

> Construction of Project 0636.3 Varshavyanka/Improved Kilo class SSK.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg




More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilo-class_submarine

----------

greyhoundollie (Jan 28, 2020),

ranald (Jan 21, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 1, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

I would asume those are vacuume hoses coming in from the left

----------


## Altair

Miners descending into the Kimberly Diamond Mine using an aerial tram. South Africa, 1885.

----------

Andyt (Jan 24, 2020),

Drew1966 (Jan 24, 2020),

greyhoundollie (Jan 24, 2020),

Quinton 357 (Jan 27, 2020),

ranald (Jan 24, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 1, 2020),

Seedtick (Jan 27, 2020)

----------


## greyhoundollie

I bet there was one big pucker factor associated with riding that thing!

----------


## IntheGroove

That thing scares me and I'm fearless...

----------


## Frank S

If you note there is only 1 guy who is even trying to appear nonchalant about the ride the rest have a concerned look in their faces.
the 4 suspension cables under the flat trolley all look like they are capstaned around each of the wheels. this would make it more stable and less prone to losing contact with 1 or more cables due to stretch or being a little more slack than the others. The trolley may not be able to fall off of the cables but with out safety belts and hand grips to hold onto the men could still be tossed out or would fall off in the event of the wind flipping the thing, also not the single lowering line and no mechanisms or provisions to stop the thing from rapid decent if the winch line failed.
Scary yes, but no more so than riding a 100 year old roller coater made of wood on Staten Island

----------


## mlochala

I'd hate to ride that on a windy day. Can you imagine?

----------

greyhoundollie (Jan 28, 2020)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Looks like a good place for the guy that everyone on the crew hates (like the boss) to "accidentally" fall off at the highest point.

----------

greyhoundollie (Jan 28, 2020)

----------


## greyhoundollie

> I'd hate to ride that on a windy day. Can you imagine?



As a young teenager I lived for a time in the Canary Islands. We visited the Volcano in the center of the island. While standing near the edge there was always a swirling wind blowing that would suck your cap off your head. I imagine the winds in the Kimberly Diamond Mine could be about the same.

Did you notice at the top right corner of the picture how the cables curve up toward the surface? This picture is taken near the bottom of the ride after the cables curve out more horizontally than the upper part of the ride. This picture is after the ride has slowed down. You know after the screaming has stopped!

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 1, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Women delivering ice. 1918.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Jan 30, 2020),

clydeman (Jan 30, 2020),

Quinton 357 (Jan 30, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

I would bet that those ladies are just models...

----------


## marksbug

just look at their shews.... and the fresh fold creases in their brand new clothes..... better ask for the girls dna,I think were being raped. or at least screwed with. :Hat Tip:

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

MMMmmmm 1918 Ice Hotties!

----------


## greyhoundollie

While I can't exactly point to the exact item the girls are wearing etc, as a whole it looks staged to me. Shoes too shiny I think and fold creases in a new pair of store bought overalls etc. However I dont think that because this pic looks staged it didn't happen that women carried ice chunks of that size. I do feel that they could represent other women that actually did that work.

My grand parents had a frozen food locker at the Ice Plant in town 8 miles away. I remember in 1958 my grandmother swinging a huge chunk of ice over her shoulder with tongs when she picked it up. She loaded it up in the pickup and drove home to cook for tomorrows 30+ men in the thrashing crew. I think I will go out this spring and look around to see if I can find one of her set's of tongs around the estate. 

I think I mentioned before that my grandmother had been a novice Nun before being called home to take care of her mother and twin sisters. Women were tougher then. ....... ESPECIALLY........ the NUNS!

----------


## jdurand

Cool!

Maybe they're the actual delivery people but they were warned to look nice for photo day.

----------


## Rikk

> While I can't exactly point to the exact item the girls are wearing etc, as a whole it looks staged to me. Shoes too shiny I think and fold creases in a new pair of store bought overalls etc. However I dont think that because this pic looks staged it didn't happen that women carried ice chunks of that size. I do feel that they could represent other women that actually did that work.
> 
> My grand parents had a frozen food locker at the Ice Plant in town 8 miles away. I remember in 1958 my grandmother swinging a huge chunk of ice over her shoulder with tongs when she picked it up. She loaded it up in the pickup and drove home to cook for tomorrows 30+ men in the thrashing crew. I think I will go out this spring and look around to see if I can find one of her set's of tongs around the estate. 
> 
> I think I mentioned before that my grandmother had been a novice Nun before being called home to take care of her mother and twin sisters. Women were tougher then. ....... ESPECIALLY........ the NUNS!



I'd bet your Grandmother had bigger arms then those two...

I'm 49 and I still have nightmares about nuns..  :Smile:

----------


## Frank S

They appear to me to be younger young ladies quite possibly in their late teens and most probably the daughters of the ice-man. Possibly posing for the photo to be in an add for his ice business. If this were the case it could explain a few things their lack of muscular development in their arms the apparent newness of clothes and or shoes. Also note both have many similarities in their facial features the height difference could be explained as a couple years between their ages.

----------


## greyhoundollie

> I'd bet your Grandmother had bigger arms then those two...
> 
> I'm 49 and I still have nightmares about nuns..





Does a the sight of a 12" wooden ruler make you cringe wither or not it has a metal edge on one side?

----------


## Rikk

> Does a the sight of a 12" wooden ruler make you cringe wither or not it has a metal edge on one side?



Indeed, as does a wooden paddle the size of a loaf of bread.... 
It's funny, when I am in public and catch sight of a nun, my back gets straighter and I check to see if my shirt is tucked in. I wonder if they have a private nod and smile when they notice people like us in public who have flashbacks. "Ah Sister, another one who still remembers..."

----------

greyhoundollie (Feb 6, 2020)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Making a big handle on a big machine for another bigger machine! Date unknown but must be early 1900's

----------

jackhoying (Feb 7, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 17, 2020)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

You can't bring in the big guns without these guys making 'em first! Cue some AC/DC! Circa 1911

----------

jackhoying (Feb 7, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 17, 2020)

----------


## Radioman

I wonder if these big machines are still in service in the United States? Somehow I doubt it. If I had to put my money on it these machines have either been scrapped or relocated in Asia. It’s a crying shame what has happened to the manufacturing capability of the United States of America.

----------


## Radioman

> I wonder if the water tank is still there?



No its gone. I lived in Billerica for 20yrs. The one thats there now is 20x the size. 
Im wondering if its in the same location as the new one? This is the first time Ive ever 
scene this photo. Great piece of history for the town of Billerica. 

P.S.- I graduated Billerica Memorial High School.

----------


## hemmjo

> ....It’s a crying shame what has happened to the manufacturing capability of the United States of America.



It certainly is!!! More than being a "shame" it is down right SCARY. I taught Industrial Technology (the old Industrial Arts with more emphasis open ended problem solving) for 35 years, retired in 2009. Since I left 11 years ago, the shops have been shutdown and replaced with "Tech Prep" using teachers who have no how to do real problem solving. Instead they give the kids "problems" then the kids "solve" the problem b duplicating the solution the teacher had in mind. Rather than letting them REALLY explore possible solutions. 

It is bad!!

----------

greyhoundollie (Feb 6, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 17, 2020)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

> It certainly is!!! More than being a "shame" it is down right SCARY. I taught Industrial Technology (the old Industrial Arts with more emphasis open ended problem solving) for 35 years, retired in 2009. Since I left 11 years ago, the shops have been shutdown and replaced with "Tech Prep" using teachers who have no how to do real problem solving. Instead they give the kids "problems" then the kids "solve" the problem b duplicating the solution the teacher had in mind. Rather than letting them REALLY explore possible solutions. 
> 
> It is bad!!



Well, American Manufacturing _output_ has steadily increased all along, with drops due to recessions and such. What has declined precipitously is American manufacturing _employment_. The US makes a lot of big complicated stuff...it's just all done by robots and computers. I agree that it sucks that we don't have more universal Industrial Arts Education, if for no other reason that teaching kids how to make stuff with their own two hands, even if they do go on to become accountants, it's still a valuble skill to learn and streches the brain and eye-hand coordination muscles better than video games for sure.

----------

baja (Feb 7, 2020),

greyhoundollie (Feb 6, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 17, 2020)

----------


## Frank S

> You can't bring in the big guns without these guys making 'em first! Cue some AC/DC! Circa 1911



 Kind of makes my 56" by 140" between the centers lathe look like a toy by comparison now I want that one. I would probably use it to make sewing needles

----------

baja (Feb 7, 2020),

bruce.desertrat (Feb 6, 2020),

greyhoundollie (Feb 6, 2020),

Hoosiersmoker (Feb 6, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 17, 2020)

----------


## greyhoundollie

Newport News on the East coast or San Diego or San Francisco on the West coast would be only place that MIGHT have that big lathe if they didn't already have one like it when it became available for sale.

More likely if it hasn't been scrapped it is in Asia IE China machining drive shafts for new supersize container ships and oil supertankers. Not to mention China is building it's navy now. Carriers, battleships, and cruisers. You know the USA Navy package in 1935 on forward. Japan wants a few of those and so does North Korea.

----------


## VinnieL

Wasn't a lot of that huge machinery warehoused in a mined-out salt mine mountain somewhere? I am thinking the name might have been Cheyenne Mountain, but I can't remember for sure. Not sure if the name is correct though.

----------


## NeiljohnUK

When I was training we had a lathe capable of machining ~22 foot diameter LP steam turbine sections, as did every large power station, for on-site repairs, only saw it used once with the operating machinist riding on the tool post at the console.

----------


## Jon

> Medical staff during Spanish Flu epidemic, Sydney, Australia, April 1919.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...f_fullsize.jpg

----------

greyhoundollie (Feb 9, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 17, 2020),

Seedtick (Feb 10, 2020)

----------


## greyhoundollie

I guess the guys standing on the sidewalk wearing suits thought they were immune to the Spanish Flu? Maybe wearing a tie wards off virus in their part of town.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 17, 2020)

----------


## mudnducs

Bonneville dam under construction...mid 1930s

----------

greyhoundollie (Feb 16, 2020),

Jon (Feb 12, 2020),

Quinton 357 (Feb 13, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 17, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Mine crew at Calumet & Hecla Mine shaft No. 2, Calumet, Houghton County, Michigan, ~1906



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Feb 16, 2020),

jackhoying (Feb 17, 2020),

jimfols (Feb 16, 2020),

mwmkravchenko (Feb 16, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 17, 2020),

Seedtick (Feb 17, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Clerical employees of Los Angeles Police Department getting fingerprinted, 1928.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...8_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Feb 17, 2020),

baja (Feb 18, 2020),

jimfols (Feb 17, 2020),

mwmkravchenko (Feb 17, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Under the man's nose at the middle right-hand side of the pic, a label says "Circular File". That's a common joke nowadays for a wastebasket.

Was it a joke in 1928 too? Or did "circular file" ever refer to anything non-humorous?

----------

baja (Feb 18, 2020),

jimfols (Feb 17, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

That might have been where circulars were filed...

----------

baja (Feb 18, 2020),

jimfols (Feb 17, 2020)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Possibly although the only etymological reference I can find with a cursory googling is this https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us.../circular-file which says it first appears in the 1945-50 time range.

Also, that usage is contraindicated by the fact that the label is on one of the filing cabinets, not the trash bin.

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

I haven't found a Vancouver California either. Not sure if this is actually California or Canada?

----------

greyhoundollie (Feb 18, 2020)

----------


## mklotz

I think IntheGroove has nailed it...

Crime Prevention Tip of the Month - Los Angeles Police Department

----------

baja (Feb 20, 2020),

greyhoundollie (Feb 18, 2020),

IntheGroove (Feb 17, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Good call guys. Also found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Look_out_circular

----------

baja (Feb 20, 2020),

greyhoundollie (Feb 18, 2020)

----------


## greyhoundollie

Things like news papers were sometimes refereed to as circulars. Things like weekly or monthly advisories in a government organization are sometimes referred to as circulars also.

----------


## unbent

It appears the stated date of the photo is off by about 20 years. The dress style is more like 1948.

----------


## Jon

> "Workers on the first moving assembly line put together magnetos and flywheels for 1913 Ford autos" Highland Park, Michigan



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Feb 18, 2020),

Seedtick (Feb 18, 2020)

----------


## greyhoundollie

Giving the men a stool to sit on would allow the line speed to be increased a bit. It would also insure fewer mistakes.

----------


## NeiljohnUK

> Giving the men a stool to sit on would allow the line speed to be increased a bit. It would also insure fewer mistakes.



FMC didn't like ideas like that, when they took over a vehicle bodybuilders works near Southampton, where my father was the Union 'works convener' the first thing they did was replace all the lighting, removing old shaded and bare 'bulb' filament lamps and fitting fluorescent strip lights in rows 6 feet apart through out the whole place. Thus eliminating dark areas, good for seeing what your doing, and allowing you to be clearly seen by management, next all the tool cribs and other 'enclosures' were removed, again improving managements views and removing hidey-holes, then they added high level 'inspection' walkways, connected directly to the plant managers offices. From a Union point of view most of this was good, improved conditions, cleaning was done where it had been ignored before, improved safety and no carrying of 'slackers' by the rest!

----------


## Frank S

> FMC didn't like ideas like that, when they took over a vehicle bodybuilders works near Southampton, where my father was the Union 'works convener' the first thing they did was replace all the lighting, removing old shaded and bare 'bulb' filament lamps and fitting fluorescent strip lights in rows 6 feet apart through out the whole place. Thus eliminating dark areas, good for seeing what your doing, and allowing you to be clearly seen by management, next all the tool cribs and other 'enclosures' were removed, again improving managements views and removing hidey-holes, then they added high level 'inspection' walkways, connected directly to the plant managers offices. From a Union point of view most of this was good, improved conditions, cleaning was done where it had been ignored before, improved safety and no carrying of 'slackers' by the rest!



In the beginning of the formulation of Unions they were a good thing for workers improving working conditions and installing safety protocols while quelling the greed of the manufacturing owners. However as with anything else when an opportunity for greed and corruption to arise what may start out as a good thing on the surface can quickly evolve into an ever increasingly overbearing monster.
Not all but a significant percentage of unions of today are more of a detriment to society than they are a good

----------


## NeiljohnUK

> In the beginning of the formulation of Unions they were a good thing for workers improving working conditions and installing safety protocols while quelling the greed of the manufacturing owners. However as with anything else when an opportunity for greed and corruption to arise what may start out as a good thing on the surface can quickly evolve into an ever increasingly overbearing monster.
> Not all but a significant percentage of unions of today are more of a detriment to society than they are a good



Absolutely, and I say that as a 'workplace' and H&S specialist Union Rep. Too many Unions have become monsters, with their very top layers attending the same troughs with the management and owners and helping to keep the workers 'in their place'...

----------


## hemmjo

> In the beginning of the formulation of Unions they were a good thing for workers improving working conditions and installing safety protocols while quelling the greed of the manufacturing owners. However as with anything else when an opportunity for greed and corruption to arise what may start out as a good thing on the surface can quickly evolve into an ever increasingly overbearing monster.
> Not all but a significant percentage of unions of today are more of a detriment to society than they are a good



Much like the government. When you hear, "I am from the government and I am here to help you".... WATCH OUT..

----------

NeiljohnUK (Feb 19, 2020)

----------


## Frank S

> Much like the government. When you hear, "I am from the government and I am here to help you".... WATCH OUT..



I just tell them Fine did you bring your own gloves safety glasses and steel toed work boots? If not come back when you are ready to work

----------


## Jon

Blacksmiths at Woolwich Arsenal, London, late 1800s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (Feb 20, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> X-ray Dept, US Base Hospital #49 , Allerey, France - 1918



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 24, 2020),

Seedtick (Feb 24, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

If the war didn't kill them the radiation did...

----------


## VinnieL

Some of the first x-ray machines were simply tubes suspended by the wires connected to each end of them. I live in Davenport, Iowa where Dr. Palmer developed his manipulation techniques that came to be called Chiropractic care. He experimented with X-rays, care for mentally ill etc. It is rumored that he gave his wife Mabel cancer from taking so many X-rays of her. That is what she died of. He also spent several stints in the county jail for practicing medicine without a license.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 24, 2020)

----------


## greyhoundollie

When I was a kid there was a department store that had a machine in the shoe department. The man would put your foot in it and you could see the bones in the top of it. I was born with my feet in bedded into the front of my shins. They had braces and straps that they used to move my feet to the right place. They took me to that place once and got me shoes.

----------


## VinnieL

Lots of shoe stores had those years ago.

----------

greyhoundollie (Feb 23, 2020)

----------


## Frank S

Years ago I needed some x rays done to my spine they laid lead blankets over every part of me but the area they were taking an image of then the tech stepped into an adjacent room to operate the machine. I could actually feel heat from the machine as it took the image. half an hour later we were looking at a compression fracture of my T12 vertebra 
Just this past Friday night I went to our local hospital ER because a rusty staple had gouged into the first knuckle of my index finger on my left hand the tech rolled in a portable machine I placed my hand on it he stood there and took the images. seconds later he and I were looking at the computer screen showing a very tiny speck of rust embedded right in the knuckle joint. He was only a PA so he recommended I go to the main hospital ER some 71 miles away for them to make the evaluation. I told him that as small as it was I didn't think there was much to do about it but allow my body to deal with it. BUT NO he wouldn't have it since my hand had already began to swell, wanted to send my by ambulance to Abilene or Lubbock. I talked him out of that said I would drive. An hour and a half to get there an hour before I see a DR another round of pictures 2 specialists conferencing with that ER DR 2 hours later the result was there would be more damage to try and extract the speck and the recovery time would take longer than just leaving it alone and allow nature to take its course. I finally get home around 3 AM.
In retrospect if it hadn't been several years since I had a tetanus shot I would have just gone to my fridge and grabbed the bottle of penicillin I keep for doctoring our critters grabbed a new syringe and needle given myself a shot and taken 2 Ibuprofen and called myself in the morning. Which was basically what they did other than write me a script. for some horse pills and charge my insurance company no telling how much. My hand is still swollen and my knuckle still hurts but I didn't have to self inject

----------

greyhoundollie (Feb 23, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 24, 2020)

----------


## NeiljohnUK

> Some of the first x-ray machines were simply tubes suspended by the wires connected to each end of them. I live in Davenport, Iowa where Dr. Palmer developed his manipulation techniques that came to be called Chiropractic care.



Having worked on x-ray machines for sub-sea cable joint inspection, redeveloping them when the original tubes went obsolete to use a smaller more powerful dental tube, I've seen quite a few machines that were unsafe due to damage to the enclosures. 

My Chiropractor had a new x-ray machine a couple of years ago, out with the old (over 20 years old and beyond repair) and in with a new 'low power' £500K machine, as the practice is busy 7am to 8pm six days a week it's almost paid for now, saves a 5 hour round trip to the Chiropractic 'University' for x-rays for patients.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 24, 2020)

----------


## hemmjo

> ....... saves a 5 hour round trip to the Chiropractic 'University' for x-rays for patients.



It is my understanding that insurance companies, in their infinite wisdom, no longer pay for X-Ray's taken with machines in a Doctor's office in the USA. The Dr has to write you a prescription for the x-ray, then you take that to a hospital or one of many businesses that have sprung up to fill this need. 

Perhaps this was due to old machine becoming obsolete, but, I am thinking it is more about the insurance company saving money.

----------

greyhoundollie (Feb 24, 2020)

----------


## NeiljohnUK

> The Dr has to write you a prescription for the x-ray, then you take that to a hospital or one of many businesses that have sprung up to fill this need. 
> 
> Perhaps this was due to old machine becoming obsolete, but, I am thinking it is more about the insurance company saving money.



More likely collusion between insurance co's and medical co's, something we're starting to see in the UK...

----------

greyhoundollie (Feb 24, 2020)

----------


## Frank S

> It is my understanding that insurance companies, in their infinite wisdom, no longer pay for X-Ray's taken with machines in a Doctor's office in the USA. The Dr has to write you a prescription for the x-ray, then you take that to a hospital or one of many businesses that have sprung up to fill this need. 
> 
> Perhaps this was due to old machine becoming obsolete, but, I am thinking it is more about the insurance company saving money.



I think they will pay as long as the Dr's office is a certified ER clinic with triage but It has been a long time since I've seen a stand alone GP's office

----------

greyhoundollie (Feb 24, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Brooklyn Navy Yard workers applying finishing touches on BB 61 USS Iowa 175-ton 16-inch main armament



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Feb 25, 2020),

greyhoundollie (Feb 24, 2020),

high-side (Feb 29, 2020),

jimfols (Feb 24, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 24, 2020),

Seedtick (Feb 24, 2020)

----------


## mklotz

Each of the 16" rifles weighs 239,000 pounds or about 120 tons.

When I toured the Iowa (now located nearby in San Pedro) we were told that each of the turrets weigh 2100 tons, very close to the weight of a WWII Fletcher class destroyer.

As with most battleships, the turrets are not secured to the ship. Rather they sit on rollers on their mounting ring. If these ships ever capsize, their turrets will fall out. I believe that is confirmed by pictures of several of the enemy battleships sunk during the war.

----------

baja (Feb 25, 2020),

jimfols (Feb 24, 2020),

Jon (Feb 24, 2020),

ranald (Mar 3, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 24, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

I like biguns!!!and small ones too!!! especially when they come in pairs.

----------

baja (Feb 25, 2020)

----------


## mklotz

On the shore opposite where the Iowa is moored they have one of the rifles from the New Jersey along with a dummy shell for scale. Here are a few photos I shot of it...











and here, on the Iowa, is what they look like _in situ_...

----------

baja (Feb 25, 2020),

jimfols (Feb 24, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 24, 2020)

----------


## gatz

We had toured the USS Alabama in Mobile AL. IDK if they allow it anymore, but at one time you could get inside the turret. 
IIRC, (and correct me if I'm wrong) the turrets and guns were of the same size/caliber as the Iowa Class.
Not a lot of room to wiggle into it from the deck, but it was worth it. All kinds of cables, hydraulics, etc.

The USS Alabama kitchen area was used in the movie Under Siege w/ Steven Seagal & Tommy Lee Jones

----------

baja (Feb 25, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Feb 24, 2020)

----------


## owen moore

So Marv, now I understand where the term "Loose cannon" came from.

----------

Jon (Feb 25, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Deep-boring machine 2959 for boring holes with a diameter of up to 1.3 m, length up to 30 meters. The length of the machine is 95 meters. The weight of the machine is 650 tons. The maximum weight of the product is 240 tons. Production Kramatorsk heavy duty machine tool building Plant. 1954



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Feb 26, 2020),

jimfols (Feb 25, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 1, 2020),

Seedtick (Feb 25, 2020)

----------


## high-side

That's how Dr. David Banner got his start, right?

----------

greyhoundollie (Feb 25, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Railroad shop crew with newly rebuilt locomotive, Orizaba, Veracruz, Mexico, February 1944



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Feb 26, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 1, 2020),

Seedtick (Feb 26, 2020)

----------


## metric_taper

A PBS program I watched a few years ago, talked about Marie Curie that won several Nobel prizes (first women to do this), she died from Aplastic Anemia from her work taking Xrays of injured soldiers, via a portable machine she invented. It had always been thought it was from her work with radioactive materials. They recently moved her grave, and found no evidence of radioactivity in the remains, hence this updated theory of her death.

----------

Andyt (Mar 2, 2020),

baja (Mar 1, 2020),

Jon (Mar 2, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 1, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Inserting the control rod into Reactor 4 at Chernobyl.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

greyhoundollie (Mar 3, 2020),

high-side (Mar 4, 2020),

jimfols (Mar 3, 2020),

mwmkravchenko (Mar 3, 2020),

Rangi (Mar 4, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 4, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

This can't end well...

----------

greyhoundollie (Mar 3, 2020)

----------


## gatz

seems so.... pointless

----------


## marksbug

needs just a little duct tape... awe that should buff out. there got if fixed!! order some more duct tape from the gremlin parts source. put it on goober cheif's bill.

----------


## greyhoundollie

I am looking at those "man hole covers" around the outside edge. The 2 partially open holes in the lower section seem to have Snow Crabs in them! Is this an episode of "Deadliest Catch"?

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 4, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

could be chineessee checkers..

----------

greyhoundollie (Mar 4, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Workers at the Loughborough Bellfoundry preparing the moulding case for a York Minster cathedral bell, Leicestershire, England, 1927



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...y_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Mar 4, 2020),

baja (Mar 4, 2020),

greyhoundollie (Mar 4, 2020),

jimfols (Mar 4, 2020)

----------


## desbromilow

> So Marv, now I understand where the term "Loose cannon" came from.



I was always taught that the expression "loose cannon" originated from shipboard blackpowder cannons (think the cannons you see in movies of pirate ships, etc) which were attached to wooden trolleys, and the trolleys tethered to the porthole structure. If the cannon came out of the trolley, or the trolley became unattached to the ship structure, it could roll around in hull, and do damage to the ship, the crew, and goods.

----------


## mklotz

> I was always taught that the expression "loose cannon" originated from shipboard blackpowder cannons (think the cannons you see in movies of pirate ships, etc) which were attached to wooden trolleys, and the trolleys tethered to the porthole structure. If the cannon came out of the trolley, or the trolley became unattached to the ship structure, it could roll around in hull, and do damage to the ship, the crew, and goods.



Yes, indeed, my take on the meaning as well. It's confirmed by the Wikipedia entry which contains a fascinating anecdote about the term. I don't think Wiki will be upset if I quote the whole entry here...

--------------------------

A loose cannon refers to a cannon (usually a wheeled cannon) which gets dislocated and moves about randomly on the decks of a warship, creating a hazard to crew and equipment.

A famous literary depiction of a loose cannon appears in Victor Hugo's 1874 novel "Ninety-Three", whose plot is set during the French Revolution. In a well-known episode, a ship of anti-revolutionary French Royalists is sailing towards Brittany, to aid the anti-revolutionary Chouannerie rebellion. While at sea, a sailor fails to properly secure his cannon, which rolls out of control and damages the ship. The sailor risks his life to secure the cannon and save the ship. The Marquis de Lantenac, leader of the Royalists, awards the man a medal for his bravery and then executes him without trial for failing in his duty.

The widespread publication of Hugo's book, both in the original French and in translation to various other languages, helped make the concept of a loose cannon more well-known. It has eventually developed a metaphorical meaning relating to a person who is acting in a wild and unpredictable manner and who constitutes as much danger to his or her own side as to the enemy. 

--------------------------

----------

baja (Mar 5, 2020),

Jon (Mar 5, 2020)

----------


## Jon

This is a good time to plug the wikipedia easy search plugin that I like. You just make the text below into a bookmark (these are known as bookmarklets). Then I put the bookmarklet in my browser favorites bar, which I can access with key commands (depends on browser). So, I just press command-3, and then a little box pops up, into which I can type my Wikipedia query, and then press enter to search. My hands never leave the keyboard.



```
javascript:void(q=prompt('Wikipedia:',getSelection()));%20if(q)void(location.href='http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?search='+escape(q))
```

----------

baja (Mar 5, 2020)

----------


## jimfols

This reply should have been for the Bell Casting post.

I see lots of pride in their endeavors.
Here's a photo of a finished product.

http://taylorbells.co.uk/wp-content/...17/12/york.jpg

----------

baja (Mar 5, 2020),

jackhoying (Mar 6, 2020),

Jon (Mar 5, 2020)

----------


## 12bolts

Nice find Jim.
Although I bet that truck was overloaded!

Cheers Phil

----------


## marksbug

wow thats a great big ding dong making thingy,,,, "preparing molding case for... great peter..of york minister" ... but it is a nice mold no matter what they are moling for the minister. I suppose next will be the pole pit mold......for the great peter....dam you just cant make this stuff up!!!I wonder if it feeds from the bottom or top?I wood assume bottom to help eliminate voids in the great peter.perhaps they should for made it for peter the great!!!or his minister!!! yes Im bored, too much rain&storms.

----------


## Rikk

Interesting stuff about making bells, these guys do it the old way. That portion of the episode starts about 18 minutes in. I just watched this the other weekend while out in the garage trying to get stuff done. A tv does not lend itself to getting stuff done, but it's at least somewhat educational.

----------

jimfols (Mar 5, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Ferro Machinery Foundry Co. Cleveland, OH. December, 1918



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Mar 5, 2020),

n9dug (Mar 5, 2020),

neilbourjaily (Mar 5, 2020),

rlm98253 (Mar 5, 2020),

Seedtick (Mar 5, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Not sure, exactly what we are looking at, at the Ferro Foundry, some sort of compactor? Obviously women doing the work with men watching. The first guy on the left looks like he might be a ghost.

----------

greyhoundollie (Mar 5, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

Looks like she's putting sand into a sifter...

----------

greyhoundollie (Mar 5, 2020)

----------


## jimfols

> Interesting stuff about making bells, these guys do it the old way. That portion of the episode starts about 18 minutes in. I just watched this the other weekend while out in the garage trying to get stuff done. A tv does not lend itself to getting stuff done, but it's at least somewhat educational.



Thanks for posting Rikk. It could have been interesting but couldn't get past his obsession with poop.

----------


## neilbourjaily

They are mulling the green sand.

----------


## greyhoundollie

Ralphs ghost seems to have a jack-o-lantern floating above his head a little to the left. Another ghost to the right of Ralphs ghost, short ghost. Seems like the Non-ghost gentleman farther to the right has motorcycle handle bars floating above his head.

----------


## IntheGroove

Rosalind P. Walter, the original inspiration for "Rosie the Riveter" died Wednesday at the age of 95.

----------

baja (Mar 6, 2020),

greyhoundollie (Mar 7, 2020),

jimfols (Mar 5, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 8, 2020)

----------


## hemmjo

In regard to the photo of the foundry; 

There is a lot of information in that photo if you really look at it. The biggest problem with the photo is focus. Unlike many old photos from back then, the depth of field (the distance from the lens for objects to be in focus) is very short. The photo we saw a while ago of the BIG crankshaft was a really good example of a DEEP depth of field, that whole photograph was in focus. 

The men in the background are very much out of focus, thus the ghostly appearance. The woman on the left and the one shoveling sand into the riddle were the most still, and most clearly in focus. The tower that is the most properly in focus and exposed the best. The shovel handle sticking up behind the tower is out of focus . 

The woman on the left and the one shoveling sand into the riddle were the most still, and most clearly in focus. The tower that is the most properly in focus and exposed the best. The shovel handle sticking up behind the tower is out of focus.

There appears to be molds, possibly for wheels in the foreground. 

The most puzzling thing to me is that BRIGHT spot behind the man and the woman on the left. I wonder if that is a furnace glowing in the background?

----------

greyhoundollie (Mar 7, 2020)

----------


## Rikk

> Thanks for posting Rikk. It could have been interesting but couldn't get past his obsession with poop.



Yes, I agree, it does get a little old at times, but I figure it's just his writers and not him specifically. He actually has done a lot to help promote the trades and has established a foundation for trade school scholarships. 

I really admire what he is doing for us. As someone who started my career as an apprentice sweeping the floor and cleaning up chips in an "old school" machine shop and is now an engineer for an aerospace manufacturer, I appreciate that he is making it cool again to work hard, pay your dues and work your way to the top through ability and knowledge.

His foundation:

https://www.mikeroweworks.org/

----------

greyhoundollie (Mar 7, 2020)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

> Yes, I agree, it does get a little old at times, but I figure it's just his writers and not him specifically. He actually has done a lot to help promote the trades and has established a foundation for trade school scholarships. 
> 
> I really admire what he is doing for us. As someone who started my career as an apprentice sweeping the floor and cleaning up chips in an "old school" machine shop and is now an engineer for an aerospace manufacturer, I appreciate that he is making it cool again to work hard, pay your dues and work your way to the top through ability and knowledge.
> 
> His foundation:
> 
> https://www.mikeroweworks.org/



Just can't believe during the mixing of the sand and manure no one said "So, what's brown and sounds like a bell?"

----------

greyhoundollie (Mar 7, 2020),

Rikk (Mar 6, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Blacksmith shop, Massachusetts, circa 1900.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...p_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Mar 7, 2020),

high-side (Mar 8, 2020),

jimfols (Mar 6, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 8, 2020),

Seedtick (Mar 6, 2020)

----------


## baja

Wilford Brimley?? My grandfather was a blacksmith around that time. According to family sources he was also an outlaw and a sheriff.

----------


## IntheGroove

The Dandy on the left looks like an outlaw...

----------


## stillldoinit

Naw, I think the 2 on the left were outside sales reps. The one on the right looks like an outlaw.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 9, 2020)

----------


## hemmjo

> Wilford Brimley?? My grandfather was a blacksmith around that time. According to family sources he was also an outlaw and a sheriff.



Seems like a lot of sheriffs moonlight as outlaws.

----------


## elk-a-holic

Sand muller?

----------


## hemmjo

> Sand muller?



Mulling is a process where the sand to be used in metal casting is mixed with proper components, typically fine sand, clay for a binder, and oil or water. 

It is energy intensive work to do with out a machine. Basically mixing the components, and breaking up clumps in the sand. During initial mulling, naturally occuring clumps are broken up. During casting, the heat from the metal tends to bond the sand into clumps, especially that close to the hot metal. It is often necessary to re-mull the sand so it can be reused. 

The riddle, or sifter, is used to assure the clumps are out. 


https://www.howimportant.com/importa...g-sand-control

----------


## Jon

> This photograph probably depicts the cable steamer SILVERTOWN at sea while men onshore at Bondi Beach, Sydney work on laying the Pacific Cable. Crowds, including surf lifesavers, appear surrounding the ditch and observing the work being carried out. As the work commenced on 16 November 1912, Pacific Cable Board officials were present overseeing a collection of workmen with shovels, telescopes and signalling flags. The cable steamer reportedly had 1,400 miles of cable on its end, as it made its way from Bondi to Auckland, New Zealand. It is possible that this photograph was taken the day the work commenced.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Mar 9, 2020),

greyhoundollie (Mar 9, 2020),

jimfols (Mar 8, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 9, 2020),

Seedtick (Mar 21, 2020)

----------


## VinnieL

I'll bet the frigging phone company is still connecting long distance revenue from that cable!!

----------

greyhoundollie (Mar 9, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Construction of Skate class USS Sargo (SSN-583). Skate class was US Navy's first production run of nuclear-powered submarines.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (Mar 21, 2020)

----------


## suther51

> I'll bet the frigging phone company is still connecting long distance revenue from that cable!!



WHAT,,,, CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?????

----------


## Jon

Not much info for this one beyond the year 1930, Hungary, and "mechanics".

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (Mar 10, 2020)

----------


## greyhoundollie

Bunch of leaner's

----------


## IntheGroove

Lounge Against the Machine...

----------

12bolts (Mar 11, 2020)

----------


## 12bolts

I think "Mechanics" may be a fault in the translation. They look more like "plant operators" or perhaps "engineers" rather than spanner twirlers

----------


## Frank S

> I think "Mechanics" may be a fault in the translation. They look more like "plant operators" or perhaps "engineers" rather than spanner twirlers



Plant operators sounds more realistic defiantly not like any engineers I have ever been associated with. But the term engineer is often loosely used to describe function of duties as well as mechanics. to me a wrench twirler is a helper

----------

greyhoundollie (Mar 11, 2020)

----------


## stillldoinit

What Frank said. 40 years ago I had a job in a commercial laundry where uniforms were rented. My job title was plant engineer, my duties were operating 150 hp boiler, doing maintenance work on n large washers and gas dryers and all the plumbing systems in the plant. Yesterday I could not spell injunear, today I are one.

----------

greyhoundollie (Mar 11, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Road building, Civilian Conservation Corps, Lassen National Forest, California, 1930s.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg

----------


## IntheGroove

"to me a wrench twirler is a helper" or as I call them; a parts changer...

----------


## IntheGroove

Times haven't changed at all, two men working, five watching...

----------


## Jon

> Cherry-picking season. Family of migratory fruit workers from Texas. July 1940. Berrien County, Michigan.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...y_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Mar 13, 2020),

jimfols (Mar 12, 2020),

Seedtick (Mar 12, 2020)

----------


## mklotz

The sullen little brat on the fender looks like the next Clyde awaiting the appearance of his Bonnie.

----------

Andyt (Mar 12, 2020),

baja (Mar 13, 2020),

jimfols (Mar 12, 2020)

----------


## Andyt

Yeah he just looks the type, cheeky wee beggar.

----------


## greyhoundollie

He is thinking, "When is it going to be MY Turn to drive!"?

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

The kid on the running board is Frank Sinatra right?

----------


## volodar

"the depth of field (the distance from the lens for objects to be in focus)". Not so. An acceptable, though subjective definition:

The distance between the nearest and the furthest objects that give an image judged to be in focus in a camera.

----------


## hemmjo

AH, yes Volodar, I stand corrected, none the less, the depth of field in that photo on in question is VERY SHORT.

----------

volodar (Mar 23, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> 381/50mm cannons being built inside the Ansaldo Artillery Factory in Genoa, 1917



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...a_fullsize.jpg

----------

Drew1966 (Mar 17, 2020),

jimfols (Mar 17, 2020)

----------


## jimfols

"381/50mm cannons being built inside the Ansaldo Artillery Factory in Genoa, 1917 "

I see the children are well represented.

Plus I always enjoy looking at rope rigging.

----------

Drew1966 (Mar 17, 2020)

----------


## Drew1966

Agreed Jim, properly rigged ropes truly area thing of wonder. Not something most folks understand these days.

----------

jimfols (Mar 17, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Breaking eggs in egg breaking plant. Chicago, Illinois. Photo by John Vachon for the Farm Security Administration July 1941.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Mar 19, 2020),

greyhoundollie (Mar 18, 2020),

jimfols (Mar 18, 2020)

----------


## hemmjo

> "381/50mm cannons being built inside the Ansaldo Artillery Factory in Genoa, 1917 "
> 
> I see the children are well represented.
> 
> Plus I always enjoy looking at rope rigging.



I wonder if they send the kids through the bore for cleaning and inspection?

----------

greyhoundollie (Mar 18, 2020)

----------


## mklotz

> I wonder if they send the kids through the bore for cleaning and inspection?



No, I believe they're thoroughly scrubbed before being pushed through.

----------

12bolts (Mar 18, 2020),

Andyt (Mar 19, 2020),

baja (Mar 19, 2020),

greyhoundollie (Mar 18, 2020),

jimfols (Mar 18, 2020),

Tonyg (Mar 19, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

But only if the kids are the right caliber...

----------

jimfols (Mar 21, 2020)

----------


## neilbourjaily

> No, I believe they're thoroughly scrubbed before being pushed through.



Wrap 'em in a swab first.

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

This picture is terrifying is a lot of ways! Big Karen in the background is giving the "stink eye" to those two actually working. No gloves and both wearing rings, no proper hair nets. The one on the right has an adhesive bandage on her hand. It looks like a pretty dim room given the effect of the flash used. Everything is galvanized and there's a wood roller in the middle, difficult or impossible to sanitize - a word you would likely have to define for everyone in the room. It makes me really queasy looking at it.

----------


## Jon

> Crew at McDonald's Brickyard, Round Pond, Oklahoma Territory, 1894.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Mar 21, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 23, 2020),

Seedtick (Mar 21, 2020),

volodar (Mar 23, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Surgery in a primitive field hospital. Ilomantsi, Finland, 1941.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...y_fullsize.jpg

----------

Seedtick (Mar 23, 2020),

volodar (Mar 23, 2020)

----------


## jimfols

"Surgery in a primitive field hospital. Ilomantsi, Finland, 1941."

I am always thankful for the people who are willing and able to do these things.
It's not my cup of tea.

----------

Andyt (Mar 23, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 23, 2020)

----------


## volodar

> Surgery in a primitive field hospital. Ilomantsi, Finland, 1941.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...y_fullsize.jpg



Great picture - emergency battle surgery in a family residence. I was one year old. Small village at the time, northern Finland, now a small town. Soviets were attempting to "annex" Finland through invasion. Finns destroyed a severe part of the soviet invading army, and the soviet cut and ran. Finland's ugly neighbour is now called russia, and has never bothered Finland since. Of course, there's no trust towards putin, nor towards his buddy drumpfh - who now calls himself trump. Birds of a feather.

----------

Rikk (Mar 24, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 27, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Construction of the cable road on Browadway, New York City, in 1891 - North from Canal St.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

clydeman (Mar 24, 2020),

jimfols (Mar 24, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 27, 2020),

Seedtick (Mar 24, 2020),

volodar (Apr 1, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Love the hats

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 27, 2020)

----------


## jimfols

"Construction of the cable road on Browadway, New York City, in 1891 - North from Canal St. "

I tried to find some info on the cable road. The only thing I could find was in the Scientific American and I am not a subscriber.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

I looked up the history of the Bowler hat many of them wore (it was quite popular among the working classes in the late 18000's and early 1900's...it wasn't until later that it became part of the bankers uniform in London's financial district) ; it was originally made for gamekeepers who needed a sturdy hat to protect against branches and such: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowler_hat so it could well be described as the original "hard hat"

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 27, 2020),

volodar (Apr 1, 2020)

----------


## greyhoundollie

You might have better luck Jim if you take the "W" out of Browadway -----Broadway---- will get you more hits
https://collections.mcny.org/Collect...UAKVSQG7Z.html
https://collections.mcny.org/Collection/14-St.-[Construction-of-the-cable-road-on-Broadway,-1891.]-24UAKVSQPCM.html
https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/...rk#/?tab=about

----------

jimfols (Mar 24, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

I tried to find some info on the cable road. The only thing I could find was in the Scientific American and I am not a subscriber.

Rufus did start the now oldest magazine in the US...

----------


## jimfols

"You might have better luck Jim if you take the "W" out of Browadway -----Broadway---- will get you more hits"

Thank you, Google took the 'W' out for me.
Your third link is what I needed, I thought it was all photos and failed to read the column on the left.

This early form of mass transit operated by means of two giant cables (powered by centrally positioned steam engines), which ran just below street level, pulling the cable cars along the track at a steady 30 miles per hour. Unfortunately, the underground cables-and hence the trains themselves-could not be slowed down at all, even when turning corners; the sharp turn at Union Square (at 14th Street) became known as Dead Man's Curve for hurling passengers around as it navigated the bend. Constant accidents and numerous breakdowns ensured the rapid demise of the Broadway Cable Railroad. 

It must have been exciting to get on and off at 30 mph

----------


## gatz

https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/...ons#/?scroll=0

is a great site for viewing those old construction pictures and NYC in general
There's alot more stuff on there.

----------

Jon (Mar 25, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Bofors guns used by the Army and Navy are shown lined up at the Firestone Tire & Rubber Co. in Akron, Ohio. April, 1944.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Mar 25, 2020),

jimfols (Mar 25, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 27, 2020),

Seedtick (Mar 26, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Closing up the hold of a grain boat. Superior, Wisconsin. August, 1941.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...d_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Mar 26, 2020),

baja (Mar 27, 2020),

jimfols (Mar 26, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Mar 27, 2020),

Seedtick (Mar 26, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Mill workers in Macon, Georgia. 1909.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Mar 31, 2020),

baja (Mar 31, 2020),

greyhoundollie (Apr 4, 2020),

jimfols (Mar 30, 2020),

MeJasonT (Mar 30, 2020),

Seedtick (Mar 30, 2020),

volodar (Apr 1, 2020)

----------


## Jon

4.7 inch Dutch artillery gun and work crew. April, 1949.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Apr 1, 2020),

greyhoundollie (Mar 31, 2020),

high-side (Apr 9, 2020),

Seedtick (Mar 31, 2020),

volodar (Apr 1, 2020)

----------


## 12bolts

A photograph of a photograph. Theres some good detail but shame about the pixelation. Would be nice to see the original.

----------

greyhoundollie (Mar 31, 2020)

----------


## greyhoundollie

The gun might be Dutch but I dont think the workers are Dutch.

----------


## 12bolts

Probably Indonesians

----------

greyhoundollie (Apr 1, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Work on streetcar tracks, Fourteenth and G Streets N.W., Washington, D.C. July, 1941.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

EnginePaul (Apr 1, 2020),

jimfols (Apr 1, 2020),

Seedtick (Apr 1, 2020),

volodar (Apr 1, 2020)

----------


## jimfols

"Work on streetcar tracks, Fourteenth and G Streets N.W., Washington, D.C. July, 1941."

I was just a child, but this is an example of how life as we know it can change in a few months.

----------


## greyhoundollie

You are probably right. The Dutch East Indies folks were all over there up until end of WWII.

----------


## volodar

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



July 1941, I was less than a year old in an Eastern European war zone. I see 'passengers' in both cars. Stalks to live wire are not extended, nor do I see a live wire aloft. These cars aren't going anywhere on their own power. Totally staged publicity photo, except perhaps for the sidewalk people. Streetcars look like the ones in Toronto Canada when we arrived there in 1956 - and are still running every few minutes today, sometimes two in tandem. Am I missing something?

----------


## IntheGroove

SAFETY FIRST - DON'T GET HURT

----------


## volodar

> A photograph of a photograph. Theres some good detail but shame about the pixelation. Would be nice to see the original.



try it again. only a half second of pixelation on my old chromebook.

----------


## owen moore

That's telling me if you have a construction company in Washington DC, make sure you call before you dig!

----------


## 12bolts

Not sure what you are referring too but pixelation occurs when you try to zoom in on an image and the detail is not there due to file compression. No amount of time is going to bring the lost data back.

----------


## hemmjo

> That's telling me if you have a construction company in Washington DC, make sure you call before you dig!



Exactly. I was thinking that when this photo was posted in #1528 (https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg)

There is so much infrastructure under ground. The amazing work that was done with such limited equipment constantly fascinates me. I am sure there was some heavy equipment involved in these projects, but there is none to be seen in the photos. Only the "hard men" who created such good times for us that follow.

Unfortunately those good times have created such soft people, and now the hard times are coming back full circle.

----------

volodar (Apr 3, 2020)

----------


## jdurand

4 stages of society:

Hard times produce hard men.

Hard men produce easy times.

Easy times produce soft men.

Soft men produce hard times.

----------

baja (Apr 4, 2020),

HobieDave (Apr 3, 2020),

volodar (Apr 3, 2020)

----------


## Jon

It's important to note that maybe half or more of the photos in this thread are at least in some regard done for publicity purposes. For some images, workers may simply have been told to dress nicely that day, or more photogenic workers may have been prioritized. For others, machinery or workplaces may have been cleaned, or structures or objects being built may have been arranged to make for a better photo.

For the era from which we're posting these pics, candid photography didn't really exist, and most people were rarely, if ever, photographed. The important thing is that the work crews - and the work - _are_ more or less accurate.

----

New York City clerks during the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Apr 4, 2020),

baja (Apr 4, 2020),

greyhoundollie (Apr 4, 2020),

high-side (Apr 19, 2020),

jimfols (Apr 3, 2020),

Seedtick (Apr 3, 2020),

volodar (Apr 3, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

Long exposures meant no candid photos...

----------

greyhoundollie (Apr 4, 2020),

Jon (Apr 3, 2020),

volodar (Apr 3, 2020)

----------


## 12bolts

Surprisingly enough, shutter speed was quite fast in the early days of "film" photography
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M...animated_2.gif This series of animated images was shot using 1/1000 sec in 1878-1887

In 1851 William H.F. Talbot photographed news print on a revolving wheel at 1/2000 sec https://people.rit.edu/andpph/text-hs-history.html

In the early 1880's shutter speeds as fast as 1/6000 sec were possible. https://people.rit.edu/andpph/text-hs-history.html

Prussian photographer, Ottomar Anshutz. In 1884 invented a small hand-held camera using a focal plane shutter to provide exposures as short as 1/1000 sec

"The late 1880's saw the invention by George Eastman of nitro-cellulose roll-film and the Kodak box camera which heralded the advent of popular photography. George Eastman Kodak Exposure times were fixed, the box camera being supplied pre-loaded. Exposures were made outdoors in good light, and the camera returned to Kodak." https://www.brayebrookobservatory.or...CALC_HIST.html Although the exposure time isnt provided, presumably it was reasonably fast considering this was a disposable camera aimed at the amateur "snapper"

A quick browse of the various shutter types that were developed, Shutter Types - Antique and Vintage Cameras including spring or rubber band operated shutters in as early as the 1880's would suggest that short exposures were desired.

----------

baja (Apr 4, 2020),

Jon (Apr 4, 2020),

ranald (Apr 4, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Workers in a pasteurized milk factory, Turkey, 1930s.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Apr 7, 2020),

jimfols (Apr 5, 2020),

Moby Duck (Apr 5, 2020),

Seedtick (Apr 6, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Shoe and boot factory. 1892.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...y_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Apr 7, 2020),

jimfols (Apr 6, 2020)

----------


## jimfols

The shoe repair shop owner in my hometown was called 'Gluefinger Mike'.

----------


## Jon

Subway construction. New York City, 1913.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Apr 7, 2020),

Miloslav (Apr 11, 2020),

Seedtick (Apr 7, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Street sweepers. Boston, 1909.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Apr 9, 2020),

baja (Apr 9, 2020),

jimfols (Apr 8, 2020),

Miloslav (Apr 11, 2020),

Seedtick (Apr 8, 2020)

----------


## jimfols

I still enjoy using a broom.

----------


## IntheGroove

I sure a fair amount of what they picked up was from the horse...

----------


## Ralphxyz

A narrow street!

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Or all the other horses. That was _WHY_ they had street sweepers in the first place...

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

That overflowing trash barrel in the back seems to indicate they either didn't empty them very often or everyone walked around wadding up paper and throwing it away.

----------


## Jon

Sailors turning capstan to weigh anchor. 1932.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Apr 10, 2020),

jimfols (Apr 9, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

"What shall we do with the drunken sailor?"...

----------


## neilbourjaily

I'm thinking this is from the USNA. We weren't using wooden sailing vessels in the 1930s, however midshipmen still had to learn how to sail.

----------

baja (Apr 10, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Cocklepickers. Lancashire, England. 1916.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Apr 13, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Machine shop inside Wilson Dam on the Tennessee River, 1947.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...p_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Apr 14, 2020),

high-side (Apr 13, 2020),

jimfols (Apr 13, 2020),

Seedtick (Apr 13, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Minnesota bank workers. 1974.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Apr 16, 2020),

baja (Apr 16, 2020),

Duke_of_URL (Apr 15, 2020),

jimfols (Apr 15, 2020),

volodar (Apr 19, 2020)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Clearly dressed for the 2 days of summer in MN :-) Open late, too, I remember when 'bankers hours' were a real thing...

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Groovy baby!

----------


## Jon

Long Island Railroad workers. 1942.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

high-side (Apr 26, 2020),

jimfols (Apr 19, 2020),

volodar (Apr 19, 2020)

----------


## jimfols

'Long Island Railroad workers. 1942.'

Steam trains and girls. What more could a guy ask for?

----------


## Jon

Washing carpets by the sea. Helsinki, Finland. 1907.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Apr 21, 2020),

Seedtick (Apr 21, 2020)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Definitely some tough women there! I see lots of snow in the background by the giant mansions...

----------


## jimfols

'Washing carpets by the sea. Helsinki, Finland.'

I found this article on the subject interesting.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/article...cleaning-piers

----------

baja (Apr 22, 2020),

Jon (Apr 21, 2020),

Moby Duck (Apr 21, 2020),

volodar (Apr 22, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Gold miners. Nevada, 1905.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (May 3, 2020),

high-side (May 2, 2020),

jimfols (May 2, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (May 3, 2020)

----------


## Philip Davies

What’s that structure, the head gear? Pounders?

----------


## hemmjo

The structure appears to be an elevator system.

----------

Philip Davies (May 3, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

The mine is probably like this...

----------

Philip Davies (May 3, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (May 3, 2020)

----------


## jimfols

This is from Google.

The most visible feature of a mine shaft is the headframe (or winding tower, poppet head or pit head) which stands above the shaft. Depending on the type of hoist used, the top of the headframe will either house a hoist motor or a sheave wheel (with the hoist motor mounted on the ground). The headframe will also contain bins for storing ore being transferred to the processing facility.

----------

Philip Davies (May 3, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (May 3, 2020)

----------


## Jon

U.S. Army nurses in France. 1944.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (May 4, 2020),

high-side (May 5, 2020),

jimfols (May 3, 2020),

Seedtick (May 4, 2020),

volodar (May 4, 2020)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

> Whats that structure, the head gear? Pounders?



It appears to be the shaft elevator judging by the large wheels and cables at the top of the structure

----------


## Toolmaker51

re post #1584 



> U.S. Army nurses in France. 1944.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg



*"Your Mom wears combat boots!"*
Yes, she does! With US Army canvas boot leggings as well.
And saved your dad, and your dad, and your dad, and yours too! 

However, seeing how YOU turned out, she almost regrets that last one....

----------

Andyt (May 4, 2020),

baja (May 5, 2020),

volodar (May 4, 2020)

----------


## Paul Alciatore

The year of my birth. My father had already died in the Marine Corp. Truly the greatest generation, men and women, military and civilian. All the greatest. 






> U.S. Army nurses in France. 1944.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (May 5, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Finnish bakery workers. 1890s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (May 6, 2020),

jimfols (May 5, 2020),

Seedtick (May 5, 2020),

volodar (May 11, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Circa 1890.




> The Harvard Computers, the group of women computers at the Harvard College Observatory, who worked for the astronomer Edward Charles Pickering. The group included Harvard computer and astronomer Henrietta Swan Leavitt, Annie Jump Cannon, Williamina Fleming, and Antonia Maury.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (May 11, 2020),

jimfols (May 10, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (May 10, 2020),

volodar (May 11, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Circa 1890. The Harvard Computers, the group of women computers at the Harvard College Observatory, who worked for the astronomer Edward Charles Pickering. The group included Harvard computer and astronomer Henrietta Swan Leavitt, Annie Jump Cannon, Williamina Fleming, and Antonia Maury.



No question a greater quantity and higher percentage of females work today in high level positions than 1890, withdrawn from stereotypical roles. The availability and means to distribute such historical information certainly expanded at least the same rate, if not more. WWII may have opened labor to them, yet the majority who excelled, appear to have mathematics in their favor. 
So why is it; if asked, few women can name one positive role model in something other than entertainment, fashion, or politics? That last one is gratuitous, since many politicians do so, simply because they lack marketable skills.

----------


## Jon

> Mill workers in the spinning room, Magnolia, Mississippi, 1911.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (May 12, 2020),

jimfols (May 11, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (May 11, 2020),

volodar (May 16, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

Mostly children...

----------


## Ralphxyz

There are a lot of children, why are two women wearing wide brim hats?

----------


## jimfols

'Mill workers in the spinning room, Magnolia, Mississippi, 1911.'

Those fire buckets may contain sand.
But I found this interesting. The rounded-bottom bucket is far more efficient in launching the water at the fire than a flat bottom bucket.

----------

baja (May 12, 2020),

Jon (May 11, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (May 11, 2020),

volodar (May 16, 2020)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Looks like a nice, bright cheery place... Until you notice that it's lit (on darker days or nights, by a handful of bare, incandescent bulbs that look to be about 10' - 12' apart. In my shop I have 4' LED lights every 8' or so that give of 10X the light of those bulbs. Now ask women and children to work around a bunch open spindles and other pinch points and moving parts... YIKES!

----------


## Frank S

> Looks like a nice, bright cheery place... Until you notice that it's lit (on darker days or nights, by a handful of bare, incandescent bulbs that look to be about 10' - 12' apart. In my shop I have 4' LED lights every 8' or so that give of 10X the light of those bulbs. Now ask women and children to work around a bunch open spindles and other pinch points and moving parts... YIKES!



Lighting options has greatly improved over the years 
While hazards in the work place have been reduced immensely throughout the years so has training and awareness of the hazards which still exist, and are more difficult and in some cases nearly impossible to completely eliminate. 
I worked around some flat belt equipment as a teenager most all of it had been converted to individual motor drives and could be stopped independently of everything else it was still next to impossible to change speeds unless the belts were turning maybe not actually under power at the time usually we changed the speeds as the motors were winding down. Slowing the speed of the machine was easy as gravity helped you. You simply used a push stick to slip the belt down to a smaller diameter pulley then used it to force the belt over the larger one on the bottom, but when changing in the other direction you had to do this in reverse meaning the belt had to be lifted and forced to climb over the larger pulley. Do this while the motor was still turning fast and if you weren't careful it would grab the stick before you could get it fully out of the way and smack you right in the face or send it flying through the shop or break it. Do the change when the RPMs had fallen off to the point that momentum was lost and the 4 or 6 inch wide belt might not rout itself in place. if it was mostly seated then you simply started the motor if it was only partially on then you had to roll it by hand but if it failed to make the climb and the motor stopped then you had to start the motor and try again. 
Trust me when you are 12 or 13 years old you learn very quickly how to time things just right very quickly

----------

volodar (May 16, 2020)

----------


## NeiljohnUK

My father was working for 'Briggs Motor Bodies' after WW2 at the Southern end of Eastleigh airport, where the first flight of the Spitfire took place and many aircraft were built in the that building, there the lighting was an incandesent bulb every 4 yards, Ford Motor Company bought Briggs for the site and to bring a major part supplier 'in-house'. Fords first action was to install continuos strip lighting 4 tubes wide 10 feet apart throughout the building, eliminating all the dark corners and hidey-holes at a stroke. https://www.fordtransition.org.uk/im...embly-Line.jpg
The Cunliffe-Owen buildings that became the Ford site https://supermariners.files.wordpres...en-factory.jpg Note the lack of 'North-light' roof layout and roof glazing, something Ford also added to their plant extensions.

----------

baja (May 13, 2020),

Beserkleyboy (May 12, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Salmon fishery, Celilo Falls, Oregon, 1941.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (May 16, 2020),

dubbby (May 16, 2020),

jimfols (May 17, 2020),

Seedtick (May 15, 2020),

volodar (May 16, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

I wonder how many people fell in and got swept away before securing themselves with rope...

----------


## jimfols

'Salmon fishery, Celilo Falls, Oregon, 1941.'

I never heard of it but I found this interesting.

On March 10, 1957, the massive steel and concrete floodgates of newly completed The Dalles Dam on the Columbia River are closed, and within hours Celilo Falls, approximately 13 miles upstream, disappears beneath the rising waters. The falls formed a rough horseshoe shape across the river, and nearby are two ancient Indian villages -- Wyam, on the Oregon side of the river, and S'kin on the other shore -- which also disappear into the reservoir behind the dam. Tribes from near and far have for thousands of years come here to fish, trade, and socialize, and the loss of the falls and downstream waters is a heavy blow to traditional Native culture. Tribal members are among the 10,000 people who gather to witness the opening of the dam and the submergence of Celilo Falls, celebrated by some and considered by others a heartbreaking turning point.

----------

baja (May 16, 2020),

Seedtick (May 15, 2020),

toeless joe (May 16, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (May 15, 2020),

volodar (May 16, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Elco's Bayonne, N.J., plant, PT construction was started with the boat upside down; when bottom and side planking was completed, the hull was turned over in a special sling, WW2.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (May 17, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (May 17, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

Throw two or three Packard V12s in and you're ready to go...

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Having read through about 4000 boat plans in the 1930's decade of Popular Mechanics in Google Books, that was the standard way boats (versus ships) were constructed. (seriously...boats were to the 1930's Pop Mechanics readers what airplanes were to the 70's...)

----------

Rikk (May 18, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (May 18, 2020)

----------


## jdurand

Which one is #73 .  :Smile:

----------


## Frank S

> Which one is #73 .



 The only way to tell will be after it is righted and they add in a still

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Which one is #73 .



Entertainment reference! Your era is showing.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Having read through about 4000 boat plans in the 1930's decade of Popular Mechanics in Google Books, that was the standard way boats (versus ships) were constructed. (seriously...boats were to the 1930's Pop Mechanics readers what airplanes were to the 70's...)



Yes. I wonder how many carefully plotted loft lines never saw a drop of water. At the same time, I'd guess a few remain extant.

----------


## Jon

Workers assemble the drive gear of an Icelandic coast guard ship.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...y_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Workers assemble the drive gear of an Icelandic coast guard ship.



How does one know when there really is a place for you in a particular machine shop...? Lots of gear boxes and pumps are just like this.
When called down to a 5 or 6" boring mill, and a set of those castings are sitting there on a pallet. Not even doweled yet...aside from a long straight bore, it'll have a pair of thrust faces inside with location, spacing and width specs. The bar is usually shop made, with HSS bits and a support bearing. Between set-up, roughing and finishing, that top half might get unbolted and opened 3-5 times. Good times!

----------


## Drew1966

I’m wondering what the planetary gears are for in this application? It’s not a differential as it’s a single drive.

----------


## jackhoying

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg



I really like the style of scaffold supports they are using on the boats. Simple and effective.

----------


## Unkle Fuzzy

> Im wondering what the planetary gears are for in this application? Its not a differential as its a single drive.



In this case I would say it's the counter rotating of 2 screws. The spur gears reverse the rotation.

----------


## hemmjo

I am thinking the small bevel gear nearest to us ma just be an idler. The stubby shaft has no means to transmit power into or out of the system. 

If you look close on the side opposite, you can see another bevel gear that could be the input.

You can also see part of a large gear peeking up out of the case. If this gear box is for a ship, that is very likely on the prop shaft. 

It is difficult to see, but it is possible there is a shift collar between the two large bevel gears. If there is it could give forward, neutral, reverse. 

Trying to think what the straight cut gear on the right end of the shaft could be used for.

Just some speculation...

----------


## IntheGroove

Just a reverse gear with reduction. Input is on the right. The first narrow gear runs a oil pump. The two large bevel gears are not fixed to the shaft. The shift mechanism is in the center. In neutral only the input shaft and pump are turning. In forward the power goes straight through. For reverse the two bevel gears are energized hydraulically. The gear reduction is on the left.

----------

baja (May 20, 2020)

----------


## hemmjo

That makes perfect sense Groove!

----------


## Jon

> Imperial Airways aircraft refueling at Semakh, British Mandate Palestine October 1931.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (May 21, 2020),

Rangi (May 21, 2020),

Seedtick (May 20, 2020),

volodar (Jun 1, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

What is the airplane?

----------


## IntheGroove

Handley Page H.P.42...

----------

baja (May 21, 2020),

Jon (May 20, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Thanks! 

Ralph

----------

IntheGroove (May 20, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Engineers testing an RL-10 engine for a Centaur rocket at the NASA Lewis Research Center Propulsion Systems Laboratory, Cleveland, Ohio, 1960.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Ralphxyz

all of those little tubes and wires you think they found a problem? I love that pleated cone appears to be fabric.

----------


## jdurand

The nozzle is made of small tubes all welded side by side. Fuel is pumped in around the exit diameter and flows up to the narrow end where it's injected. Cools the nozzle and preheats the fuel in one step. VERY expensive to make.

Now SpaceX is 3D printing engines out of inconel with all the tubes and connections made at the same time.

Now if they could just get their pressure test vehicles to stop imploding .

----------


## Jon

Construction crew. Oxford, Ohio, 1911.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (May 26, 2020),

baja (May 26, 2020),

jimfols (May 25, 2020),

Seedtick (May 25, 2020)

----------


## jimfols

Looks like all the trades are represented.

----------


## Jon

> The 'Autopen Signature Machine' being to bulk sign checks for injured Veterans. This is in the War Risk Bureau, which became the Dept of Veterans Affairs. Washington DC, 1919.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



Looks like Shorpy enhanced this one quite a bit. Here's the original from the Library of Congress: [Two women using check signing machine which signs checks issued by the War Risk Bureau, Washington, D.C.] . I like the detail enhancement on the machine and the checks, but it makes their faces and skin look smudgy.

----------

Paul Jones (May 30, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (May 27, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

Do you think she is actually signing the checks with her signature or running the stylus on a grooved pattern...

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Do you think she is actually signing the checks with her signature or running the stylus on a grooved pattern...



While a stylus and engraved font plate makes sense, I think she is an authorized signature in a district office. Seems improbable 'one' woman could sign 100's of thousands, if not a few million, considering timely book-work, posting, and who knows what else.
The plate displays no obvious machine work other than mounting, and their 'office' is a chainlink cubicle [chainicle?, cageical?], so there were security measures in place.

----------


## IntheGroove

Only ten at a time. She's probably still signing them...

----------

that_other_guy (May 30, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Only ten at a time. She's probably still signing them...



Not to mention, regardless how nicely the pantograph was made, there must be mechanical friction to over come. Look at her forefinger; talk about writers cramp or tendonitis!

----------


## mklotz

Seems rather weird to be hand signing government checks when, even in 1919, the signatures on the currency were printed in the act of printing the bill.

----------

Toolmaker51 (May 27, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> The staff of Arctic research station Matochkin Shar - 1931, Novaya Zemlya.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

high-side (Jun 2, 2020),

Seedtick (Jun 1, 2020)

----------


## McDesign

Nice sideboard!

----------


## gatz

what is the thing that looks like a skinned frog on the boot or shoe of the 2nd from left ?

----------


## IntheGroove

It looks like some sort of cloth...

----------


## Ralphxyz

The "thing' looks like it is kneeling. 3 with boots one barefoot.

----------


## IntheGroove

Seven feet and five heads...

----------


## dee2012

I bet it smelled pretty bad in that cabin

----------


## Jon

Munition workers. Dublin, Ireland. 1914.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jun 8, 2020),

Seedtick (Jun 12, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 7, 2020),

volodar (Jun 8, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

I would have loved to listen to those ladies talk...

----------


## Jon

Polish firefighters in museum. Not really sure what we have here. I found it posted on social media describing them as dusting paintings. A machine translation of the original page in Polish describes this as "Museum service during fire fighting exercises."

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jun 13, 2020)

----------


## Frank S

I hope the guy doesn't snag the skirt of his coat tail on the ladder on his way down

----------


## IntheGroove

I hope they don't turn the water on or him and the ladder will come down...

----------

Drew1966 (Jun 13, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

I would assume/hope they used air to blow the dust off.

----------


## Toolmaker51

This just plain odd. Looks staged, they really are not in 'turn-out' gear, regardless the era. So, dusting seems logical, barely. Can't get my head around what term to google with for some enlightening tidbit either. And very probable their pump is centrifugal or bellows, but that hose is flat as a pancake.

----------


## mklotz

I don't know how they do things in Poland but I'll wager that Getty and the Guggenheim would never blow dust off any artwork on display only to have it redeposit on another. Small, delicate, handheld, low-flow vacuums yes, but never brass fire hose nozzles near a Caravaggio.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jun 13, 2020)

----------


## Jon

1911 electric beer delivery truck.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...k_fullsize.jpg

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jun 14, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

silence is golden...

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Now, Tesla, _THIS_ is what a "truck" looks like, not some Hot Wheels thing...

----------

Frank S (Jun 14, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 14, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

I assume the seat is so high because that is what was needed to drive a team of horses and they just motorized the wagon.

----------


## Toolmaker51

Get a load of the company logo on what is likely the battery compartment. Might have 7-8 letters! A good laugh, but not enough to decipher. Ralphxyz is probably right, they motorized or used design of a horse drawn chassis. Built for serious loads though, I see rivets, I-beam and channel, plenty of iron!

----------


## DIYSwede

-I wonder how the hangover would be after a keg of "Electric Beer"?
Guess I'd be grounded for a while...

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jun 15, 2020)

----------


## Frank S

That truck appears to be a CT electric probably a 1 ton or maybe a 1 1/2 ton 
A friend of mine owns one and it will be brought to me in the upcoming months to either store or hopefully we will go ahead and restore it 
here is his take on the history of the CT electric trucks ha has dome some extensive research on the matter

20 CT Electric's were used during the night time hours from 1916 up into 1962 to haul 10 ton loads of paper and two hauled coal. Mine was number 14 and was used to haul coal. At least I believe so based on the piles of small coal chips found everywhere in the cab. This truck sat outside for too many years. 

The truck is powered by four 60V 200 AMP GE electric motors. One on each wheel. Each motor should produce 16 hp for a total of 64 hp. The truck is geared out to 12 MPH.


It was purchased from the 3'rd (4th) owner, depending on how you want to count them. The first owner was the Curtis Publishing Company. The second was an individual who completed a two truck purchase from Curtis, numbers 14 and number 16. It was then sold to a gentleman who intended to restore it but passed away before any thing was done to it. One of his relatives inherited it and I purchased it from them. Or so I think. I also received the very first title the state of PA. issued to it.


This is the truck when I picked it up. Everybody tells me its so ugly only a mother could love it so I guess I'm a SAP I think it looks neat. It's been called the vending machine!

I found this interesting link to an engineering handbook from 1921 and it has a lot of information on electric vehicles prior to 1921. I purchased the book and I'm waiting on the mailman.

I've decided, at least for now, that I'll preserve it rather than restore it. Its a unique piece of American history and I'd like to preserve that as it existed. My plans are to replace the wood bed around the edges. Red Oak 2" thick, that'll be needed to refasten the steel band that goes around the edge of the bed. Theres a 1/4 inch steel plate on top of it. Next I'm going to see what I can do to rejuvenate, rebuild or what ever is necessary to get the batteries back into working condition. The batteries have always been rebuilt vs replaced. Huge wooden battery boxes. Nine in all.

I've removed the cab and I intend to set it up as a display on the back of the truck. It'll help show the changes the truck went through during it's life. Charlie Wacker designed the cab he was a long time ATHS member and has passed on. There is quite a bit in print about him and his family's truck body building business and I'll post what I can as I find it. Heres a little teaser,,



Nice old truck. I couldn't help thinking of a long time ATHS member (who has since passed on) by the name of 

Charlie Wacker --he was a genuine character who was a "pistol" in his eighties -- I can't imagine how he was in his youth. Anyway, his grandfather started a body works near Philadelphia over a 100 years ago and Charlie worked there his whole life . What he didn't know about truck bodies, wasn't worth knowing. One of his pet peeves was restored trucks from the early part of the 20th century with finely finished wooden bodies, that is, the wood was stained and clear coated or varnished. Charlie ALWAYS pointed out that the bodies were NEVER done this way, but rather painted, as you have done. Charlie would have told you, "You done in right"

One of the books I have tells this story, from "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of American Trucks and Commercial Vehicles" by Albert Mroz.

1907 -1928 _ The Commercial Truck Company of America was founded in 1907 in Philadelphia Pa. The vehicles were battery powered electric, although a few were gasoline-electric hybrids were also built by 1915. For 1908 the company advertised itself as the Commercial Truck Company, and showed a 35 passenger omnibus as well as a 30 passenger sight seeing coach. Already by late 1907 a 3-ton and a 5-ton chassis were available.


Other early models consisted of a 1/2 -ton to 3 1/2-Ton capacity. The 1/2-ton delivery van sold for $2200. The larger models used General Electric motors geared to each rear dual-wheel. The 3 1/2 ton truck had a wheelbase of 114 -inches and weighed 10,000 lbs. Top speed was 7 MPH.

By 1912 C.T. trucks were available in six different capacities from 1/4-ton to 5-ton. Worm-drive was adopted in 1913. The gasoline-electric hybrid tractor was introduced in 1915 and continued to be built but only for two years. A 6-ton model was added in 1921, and lighter models were improved. Most of the heavier models had four-wheel-drive with an electric motor mounted on each wheel.

As an example C.T.electric trucks were successfully operated in Philadelphia by the Curtis Publishing Company. A fleet of 22 was used by the publisher of Jack and Jill, Holiday, Ladies Home Journal, and Saturday Evening Post. Two of the trucks were used exclusively to haul coal, while the other 20 delivered the periodicals throughout the city. Loaded with 10 tons of paper and traveling at 10 mph, they silently plied the streets in the early morning hours with nary a puff of exhaust. Curtis used the reliable C.T. fleet as late as 1962. By that time, the trucks were over 40 years old on the average. They still used the original 85 Volt 10 amp drive systems that consisted of an electric motor in each wheel. 

By 1928 C.T. offered 12 different models to chose from, but the diminishing market for slow electric trucks with a limited range forced C.T. to be acquired by the Walker Vehicle Company, an electric truck builder that lasted until 1942.



I am completely amazed at the numbers of electric and hybrid trucks made before the 1930's. I have compiled a list of those who made electric commercial vehicles using just one source.

A & B The American and British Manufacturing Co. (hybrids)
ACF/ACF-Brill/Brill (Hybrids)
Ahrens-Fox
Ajax Electric
American Electric
American Lafrance (hybrids)
Andover
Anheuser-Busch
Argo
Asprooth-Leoni Electric
Atlantic
Auto-Car (not to be confused with Autocar)
Autocar
Automatic Electric
Bailey Electric
Baker
Baker (2)
Battronic
Beardsley
Blue Bird
Borland
Brecht
Broc Electric
Bronx 
Buffalo
Buffalo Electric
Caffrey Electric
Calectric Delivery
Cantono Electric
Capitol
Capitol (2)
Carl
Champion
Champion (2)
Champion Electric
Chicago Electric
Clinton E Woods Motor Vehicle Co.
Collins
Columbia
Connersville
Couple-Gear
CT (Commercial Truck Co) (electric and hybrid)
Custer Electric
Dayton
Detroit Electric
Detroit Taxicab
Dunlap
Edison
Eldridge (hybrid)
Electric Vehicle
Electrocar
Electro-coach
Electromobile
Elwell-Parker
Ewbank (hybrid)
Fifth Avenue Coach
Fisher (hybrid)
Fritchle Electric
Gas-Electric (hybrid)
General Electric
GMC
Great Western (hybrid)
Greene
General Vehicle
Hewitt-Lindstrom
Hunter Electric
Illinois Electric
JactoJenkins
Joliet
Joly &Lambert
Kelland
Knickerbocker
Lansden
Lansing
Leoni
Loomis
Milburn
Morris & Salom
Morrison
M & P
Munson (hybrid)
Nordskog Electric
OB
Ohio Electric
Oldsmobile (first electric vehicle built in 1887)
Phipps- Grinnell
Piercy (hybrid)
Pittsburg
Pope-Waverly
Purity
Quadray
Quadru (hybrid)
Rauch & Lang
Riker
Roland (hybrid)
Sampson (Hybrid) (the Road Train an 18 wheeler in 1910)
Standard (hybrid)
Steinmetz Electric
Storms
Studebaker
Synnestvedt
Tek-Truk
Thorne
Turbine
Universal Gas Electric (hybrid)
Urban
Van Auken
VEC
Versare
Voltacar
Wagenhals
Walker
Ward
Washington
Waverly
Westcoaster
Wood
Woods
So it appears there were many electric commercial vehicles built before 1930, Where did they end up?

----------

12bolts (Jun 14, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 15, 2020),

volodar (Jul 19, 2020)

----------


## 12bolts

Thanks for that write up Frank. What type of batteries are in your truck?

Cheers Phil

----------


## Frank S

> Thanks for that write up Frank. What type of batteries are in your truck?
> 
> Cheers Phil



Its not my truck it belongs to my friend who owns the Prevost RV 
The batteries are the original Edison batteries and are over 100 years old out of the 9 batteries I think he said that at least 6 of them were still in rebuildable condition. 
they are nickel iron or Ni-FE the same type that were used in submarines for a long time. 
he had decided that after he sells his house in CT. he and his wife are thinking about picking out a spot in the North woods where I have a meadow like clearing pour a pad there and he and I will build a pole shed for them to park the Rv under for when they are not traveling playing merry campers 
I have done some preliminary research on the Edison batteries and believe that I can duplicate them if he decides to restore the CT rather than just preserve it This part of Texas is a whole lot better place to preserve than the salt humid air of Connecticut where it is currently located

----------

Beserkleyboy (Jun 14, 2020)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Frank, What a wonderful old truck! ...and another project one day, like you don't already have a long enough list! Cheers

Jim

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Frank, What a wonderful old truck! ...and another project one day, like you don't already have a long enough list! Cheers
> 
> Jim



As if you don't realize, [which I already KNOW you do] endless streams of projects are what make us live; get up every morning and not bed down until tired. No alarms needed.

By the way; I'm certain ATHS is the American Trucking Historical Society. I believe their office is in Kansas City near KC Int'l Airport. There is the nicest red and white day cab tractor parked out, easily visible from I-29 Freeway.

----------

volodar (Jul 19, 2020)

----------


## Frank S

> Frank, What a wonderful old truck! ...and another project one day, like you don't already have a long enough list! Cheers
> 
> Jim



the wood in it is Oak planking and it is a full 2 inches thick I have been buying my oak trailer flooring directly from a small saw mill company, he will slice it any thickness and widths I desire and at a lot lower price than I could buy even milled lumber from a specialty company. So I will order it cut 2 1/4" thick then plane to correct thickness and router the tongue and groves or step down lands as required to match original

----------

Beserkleyboy (Jun 15, 2020)

----------


## Frank S

> As if you don't realize, [which I already KNOW you do] endless streams of projects are what make us live; get up every morning and not bed down until tired. No alarms needed.
> 
> By the way; I'm certain ATHS is the American Trucking Historical Society. I believe their office is in Kansas City near KC Int'l Airport. There is the nicest red and white day cab tractor parked out, easily visible from I-29 Freeway.



Yes that is what we laughingly call the big house. About 10 years ago me and the guy who owns the Ct electric were concerned about their lack of caring about the archived forum posts of their discussion forums so while I was in Kuwait and he being in CT. we set the electrons of the internet on fire for several weeks researching and retrieving data from 3 previous service providers that everyone thought had been lost or deleted we built a server and populated it with all of the lost data then sent it to the big house all while creating an online chapter of the ATHS. which after a few years was disbanded due to a then political atmosphere within the corp. I have retrieved and saved old data from a couple of engineering sites I used to frequent and several other discussion type forums I have participated in if I got wind of their eminent demise.
I am really thankful here at HMT.net we have a stable platform with lots of daily growth. and the owners of this site has a love for what they do. because I doubt if I would have the energy to even attempt to try and do again what I took upon myself to do back then on other discussion forums I couldn't afford it anyway.

----------

Beserkleyboy (Jun 15, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 15, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Here is another article and picture of one of the trucks.

Ralph

----------

IntheGroove (Jun 15, 2020)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

> Get a load of the company logo on what is likely the battery compartment. Might have 7-8 letters! A good laugh, but not enough to decipher. Ralphxyz is probably right, they motorized or used design of a horse drawn chassis. Built for serious loads though, I see rivets, I-beam and channel, plenty of iron!



I think it's just the letters of the Central Brewing Company. A large C a large B then a smaller Co.

----------


## Jon

> Belgian refugee women use lathes to make ammunition casings at the Belgian Munition Works in London. 1918.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jun 16, 2020),

high-side (Jun 16, 2020),

jimfols (Jun 15, 2020),

Seedtick (Jun 15, 2020),

volodar (Jul 19, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Composing room of the _New York Times_ newspaper. 1942.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...m_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jun 17, 2020),

jimfols (Jun 16, 2020),

Seedtick (Jun 16, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 16, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Casual attire, typesetters, and near-certainty of seating by W.H. Gunlocke Chair Co.

----------

Jon (Jun 16, 2020)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Linotypes, I"m guessing, based on my fading memories of using one in HS (when our local newspaper plant went to phototypesetting in the early 70's they dump, err, I mean "gifted" their Linotype machines to the local school districts for their printshop classes. Fun to work with. For years our HS newspaper was typeset on a couple of 'em.

----------

baja (Jun 17, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 16, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Yes, correct name of process patented as Linotype......aka hot type. Harder than pure lead, mostly alloyed with tin and antimony. Treasured by cast bullet shooters worldwide.

Linotype (trademark), typesetting machine by which characters are cast in type metal as a complete line rather than as individual characters as on the Monotype typesetting machine. It was patented in the United States in 1884 by Ottmar Mergenthaler.

----------


## CharlesWaugh

*"Farewell ETAOIN SHRDLU, 1978"*
A movie about the LAST New York Time edition printed using Linotype.
Gorgeous movie, but sad.





https://vimeo.com/127605643

----------


## neilbourjaily

Unbelievably loud. All day long in front of a BANG BANG BANG machine. A job for the deaf.
Ottmar Mergenthaler Invents the Linotype : History of Information

----------


## Toolmaker51

> *"Farewell ETAOIN SHRDLU, 1978"*
> A movie about the LAST New York Time edition printed using Linotype.
> Gorgeous movie, but sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://vimeo.com/127605643



I remember that, from way back. I'm going to record and preserve a copy now, to trump my position in any argument about progress. It was presented a couple years after I entered the trade [machine tools].
I wondered, will that happen to me?
Though good as that is, this I still find even more gut-wrenching, literally. The opening scene of "Seabiscuit" [2003] they set up the era via early Ford T cars and the bigger impact of assembly lines. A few pictures of cars and motorists, and this is the voice over;

_They called it the car for every man. Henry Ford himself called it a car for the great multitude. It was functional, and simple, like your sewing machine, or your cast-iron stove. 
You could learn to drive it in less than a day. And you could get any color you wanted, so long as it was black. 
When Ford first conceived the Model-T, it took thirteen hours to assemble. Within five years he was turning out a vehicle every ninety seconds. Of course the real invention was the assembly line that built it. 
Pretty soon other businesses had borrowed the same technologies. Seamstresses became button sewers. Furniture makers became knob turners. 
It was the beginning and the end of imagination, all at the same time._ 

I've taken a little license with the format, to emphasize phrases, but altered the lines in no way. I may be an amateur film student, IMDB is my first source of information regarding anything related to motion pictures

----------


## Jon

> Coal trimmers bunkering an ocean liner in the port of Hoboken, NJ, circa 1908.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jun 18, 2020),

high-side (Jun 18, 2020),

jimfols (Jun 17, 2020),

Seedtick (Jun 17, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 17, 2020)

----------


## jimfols

'Coal trimmers bunkering an ocean liner '

The Coal Trimmers kept the ship trimmed. Who knew?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_trimmer

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jun 17, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Not sure what is actually going on here with the coal trimmers? I'm guessing the hoppers gravity feed the coal through one of those hole?

----------


## Jon

Sugarcane harvesters. Fiji, 1884.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jun 20, 2020),

high-side (Jun 21, 2020),

jimfols (Jun 19, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 19, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

What a photo. Good subject, exceptional focus, infinite depth of field, can even see texture of various materials.

----------


## Ralphxyz

Of course it is those three little guys in the back, on the right, that actually did the harvesting and loading.

----------

Drew1966 (Jul 1, 2020),

suther51 (Jun 20, 2020)

----------


## f800

Yes, and there is little wonder what the switch in the middle man’s hand is for...

----------


## Ralphxyz

Actually while it might be a technically good photo it is what I would call extremely racist. If you were a black person would you see anything worth commemorating in the photo?

----------

suther51 (Jun 20, 2020),

volodar (Jul 19, 2020)

----------


## Frank S

> Actually while it might be a technically good photo it is what I would call extremely racist. If you were a black person would you see anything worth commemorating in the photo?



Ralph don't go down that road here on HMT.net there is far too much of that crap floating around everywhere else.

----------

baja (Jun 21, 2020),

jimfols (Jun 20, 2020),

Jon (Jun 20, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Telephone switchboard operators at police headquarters. New York City, 1909.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jun 22, 2020),

jimfols (Jun 21, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

You had to wear a tie to answer the phone properly.

----------


## desbromilow

> Yes, and there is little wonder what the switch in the middle man’s hand is for...



You will probably find the switch is for hitting the ground and snakes - sugar cane is a absolute nightmare for snakes hiding in it, and it doesn't look like they've burnt through prior to harvest (as is done in Qld Australia) - so the snakes can be quite close to the harvesters feet... switches/sticks, and cane-knives are your only defense.
nice narrow gauge lightweight railway in there as well.

----------


## IntheGroove

"Car 52 where are are you."...

----------


## Jon

> Mechanized road grading equipment. LaCreek NWR, South Dakota. 1937



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Jun 30, 2020),

baja (Jun 30, 2020),

clydeman (Jun 29, 2020),

jimfols (Jun 29, 2020)

----------


## Jon

The 6,000th B-24 Liberator built at the Willow Run assembly plant, with builders.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg




More:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willow_Run
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consol...B-24_Liberator

----------

Andyt (Jul 1, 2020),

baja (Jul 1, 2020),

clydeman (Jul 1, 2020),

high-side (Jul 6, 2020),

Rangi (Jul 4, 2020),

Seedtick (Jun 30, 2020),

Tonyg (Jul 1, 2020),

volodar (Jul 19, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Ford Tough!

----------

clydeman (Jul 1, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

wouldn't you like to have one of those parked in your garage... :Thumbs Up:

----------


## Frank S

I would need the ground crew to service it for me though

----------


## hemmjo

It is amazing what a group of people, of any size, can accomplish when they are all working together for a common purpose.

----------


## marksbug

with non china instruction booklet :ROFL:

----------

high-side (Jul 6, 2020),

VinnieL (Jul 4, 2020)

----------


## VinnieL

The sheet metal on it kinda looks like some of the early Galaxy 500's.

----------


## Jon

Ginger ale bottling workers. Southern California, 1931.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jackhoying (Jul 6, 2020),

jimfols (Jul 5, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Bottling, one bottle at a time seems strange.

----------


## Toolmaker51

In foreground;
for being fed manually, that's a lot of machine just to wrap neck with foil and spin a label on. 
With sugar [then] instead of corn syrup [now] I'll bet it tasted great though.

----------


## Jon

Fageol factory workers. Oakland, California, 1918.

Largest image size available.

----------

baja (Jul 7, 2020),

clydeman (Jul 11, 2020),

jimfols (Jul 6, 2020),

Rangi (Jul 6, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Is that a generator in the back seat?

----------


## IntheGroove

This could also be a 1918 15-ton Couple-Gear gas-electric powered tractor-truck by the Couple-Gear Freight Wheel Company of Grand Rapids...

----------

Jon (Jul 7, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

looks like it could be a electric train engine. or possibly a tractor of some sort.

----------


## Ralphxyz

The picture is labeled "Fageol factory workers. Oakland, California, 1918." 
Googling Fageol is very interesting, the factory produced Peterbilt

----------


## Jon

For the Fageol pic, I was not able to find any other instances of the pic besides the one I found on social media. Usually I'll verify the pic or find a fullsize version by doing a Google Similar Image search, but even though this one came up with no results, it was too good to pass up. I did find lots of cool stuff at Fageol.com.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jul 7, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

they also made cars. highend cars from what Ive read.

----------


## Jon

Manufacturing Stetson hats. Philadelphia, PA. 1910.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 11, 2020),

clydeman (Jul 11, 2020),

jimfols (Jul 10, 2020),

marksbug (Jul 10, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

I was looken at those 3 days ago.Ive never been able to wear a hat, but in this sun I probably should learn to deal with somethen on my head.that aint going to be eazy.

----------


## 12bolts

Get a straw hat. Theyre lightweight, cool, and shade the sun well

----------


## Toolmaker51

Stetson factory was a fixture in St. Joseph Missouri too. The plant moved to Mexico, but they still operate a store and warehouse in the same building. 
A surprising array of manufacturing there in St. Joe; right off top of my head (bald) Chase Candy, Lifeline Foods, Snorkel Aerial Equipment, Altec Ind, Gray Mfg [auto mechanic equipment], several in packaging, Mead Paper, Triumph Foods [supposedly largest pork plant in US], several niche operations as well; naturally many have relocated away too.

----------


## Jon

Hall-Scott Motor Company Plant workers manufacturing motors for use in Fageol cars. Oakland, CA. 1917.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...y_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 12, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 12, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

The lighting is rather lacking except for daylight.

----------


## Toolmaker51

Sparse electric lighting yes. Possibly windows surround entire room, just as many plants did; that and their white ceiling would be a pleasant work place indeed. Nicer than any I can recall; some, just plain terrible.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Get a straw hat. Theyre lightweight, cool, and shade the sun well



You want marksbug to wear a pizza? Compared to a beret, and sun-burnt ears, it's a good choice I guess.

----------


## 12bolts

??
I dont get the pizza reference?

----------


## Frank S

> ??
> I dont get the pizza reference?



I've worn many hats over the years. to me straw hats were something women wore tending their gardens huge floppy wide brimmed things the would go sailing in the wind like pizza dough being tossed by a master chef unless the wearer had them tied with a bow under their chin, but smaller in diameter than the sombreros men wore. Sombreros had slip bolas you wore under your chin like the women's bows but made from a wooden bead with a hole through it. In the summer time wranglers would store their beaver felt western hats for straw hats shaped much the same as their Stetsons each individual would steam them and create a shape they preferred just like their real hats. The only thing about a straw hat was until the hat and the head band became saturated and stained with sweat every puff of wind meant you went chasing them. My grandpa called the men who showed up for work wearing a fresh bought straw hat new hats. It didn't matter to him if the guy had worked for him for years he was still a new hat until he had put in enough work to build up a sweat stain in their hats do he wouldn't have to chase it all the time. Most would dunk their brand new straw hats in the horse trough early in the morning before he saw them to wet their hats. wetting them did 2 things 1 it kept them from being called a new hat and 2 the evaporative wicking of the wind in the straw kept them cooler throughout the day.
Television advertisers now have come up with the newest latest marketing scheme with hats that you wet to keep cool during the day as if this is something new. What people don't know is farm and ranch hands have been doing this since the advent of the straw hat.

----------

volodar (Jul 19, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

Straw Hat Pizza...

----------


## marksbug

> Straw Hat Pizza...
> Attachment 35752



 dam i love pizza!!! especialy fresh outa the oven in italy!! ( not not a tourist trap, a real restaurant) I would wear a womans or mans straw hat for that!!!

----------


## Toolmaker51

> ??
> I dont get the pizza reference?



It's a US thing. And wacky humor of yours truly...

----------


## Jon

Putting out an oil well fire. Southern California, 1931.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...a_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 13, 2020),

high-side (Jul 14, 2020),

jimfols (Jul 13, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

Red Adair would have been 16 years old but he would have wanted to help put out that fire...

----------


## Toolmaker51

Clearly I'm not old enough to recall that 30's era; but I certainly remember the 'forests' of oil rigs strewn about. One in particular, along Pacific Coast Highway a bit past Seal and Huntington Beach areas seemed to go for miles. 
There surely is still oil down there; but real estate development is more long term revenues; and easier to escalate prices.
So now, most families can't afford to buy a home, and all are dependent on foreign whims for petroleum...

----------


## Drew1966

> Clearly I'm not old enough to recall that 30's era; but I certainly remember the 'forests' of oil rigs strewn about. One in particular, along Pacific Coast Highway a bit past Seal and Huntington Beach areas seemed to go for miles. 
> There surely is still oil down there; but real estate development is more long term revenues; and easier to escalate prices.
> So now, most families can't afford to buy a home, and all are dependent on foreign whims for petroleum...



You’re making a good argument for moving away from fossil fuels and towards renewables there. Sadly, most folks are too lazy to do so.

----------

bruce.desertrat (Jul 14, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 14, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Workers assembling a Merlin V-12 engine.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 16, 2020),

high-side (Jul 18, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 15, 2020)

----------


## VinnieL

I always wondered if they really did put those out with dynamite like was shown in the John Wayne movie.

----------


## Pa1963

> Workers assembling a Merlin V-12 engine.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg



Looks more like they are preparing for a dyno pull.

----------

jackhoying (Jul 16, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

They are not assembling it, they are readying it for a test run...

----------

jackhoying (Jul 16, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

I've had a couple of clients that had Merlins in their boats...

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I've had a couple of clients that had Merlins in their boats...



Modified Vee Cigarette's? Off shore racing? September Long Beach-Catalina water ski race? Probably not pickle fork hydroplanes...

----------


## IntheGroove

Hornet II 1930 Garwood...

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jul 15, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

BROWN & BASSETT GENTLEMANS RACER

----------

baja (Jul 16, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 15, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

:Bow: 
My horse-powered guess; Just a few era's off..... :Frown: 
More beautiful than anything of fiberglass.

----------


## 12bolts

Yes they did. The strategy behind it was to use the explosive energy to blast the flame sideways away from the source of fuel faster than it could burn, leaving a relatively safe area for the workers to then move in and shut off the fuel flow. Not always successful the 1st time. Sometimes the fireball would go up and the spray would catch up with the source of ignition and back to square 1

----------

volodar (Jul 19, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

you looks like dino pull to me...wheres the movie!! :Popcorn:

----------


## Hans Pearson

....and it looks more like a Packard Merlin.

----------


## Ralphxyz

Wow, these boat and motor pictures are great!
Just what I need in my boat a Rolls Royce engine.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

> I always wondered if they really did put those out with dynamite like was shown in the John Wayne movie.



Yes they do, back then and to this day. There are some 'Thrilling true tales' of putting out well fires in the 1930's era Populaar MEchanics back issues on Google Books. Also I remember seeing a documentary about how they dealt with the well fires in Kuwait back after the first Gulf War; may have been a Nova or Frontline episode on PBS. There's also this https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104275/ but I don't think that's the one I saw.

That one features the real Red Adair, who was the character John Wayne was playing...

----------


## bruce.desertrat

And the air racing guys hate, HATE HATE the folks who stick 'em in their unlimited hydroplanes, because they trash the engines and they're no longer usuable as rebuilds for the P51's they're tring to keep in the air...

----------

volodar (Jul 19, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

> Wow, these boat and motor pictures are great!
> Just what I need in my boat a Rolls Royce engine.



You're in luck. The T 44 WILD HORSES is for sale and it will only set you back $225,000...

----------


## Jon

Construction of a B-24 Liberator bomber in the Willow Run Plant. Ypsilanti, Michigan, 1943.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...n_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 18, 2020),

high-side (Jul 18, 2020),

jimfols (Jul 17, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 18, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

I machined and built a set of merlins for my bosses 47 triple ,apache with tripples , v8 merlins...the first 2 ever released. over 1000 hp each. dam I miss that stuff.

----------


## 12bolts

Wasnt the Merlin a V12?

----------


## IntheGroove

Yes, the Merlin is a V12...

----------


## Frank S

The Rolls-Royce Merlin is a British liquid-cooled V-12 piston aero engine of 27-litres (1,650 cu in) capacity. Rolls-Royce designed the engine and first ran it in 1933 as a private venture. Initially known as the PV-12, it was later called Merlin 
Was the top dog of aircraft engines for a very few years. Then came The Allison V-1710 aircraft engine designed and produced by the Allison Engine Company was the only US-developed V-12 liquid-cooled engine to see service during World War II. Versions with a turbocharger gave excellent performance at high altitude in the twin-engined Lockheed P-38 Lightning, 
also the radials which grew to enormous sizes the Pratt&Whitney 4360 was quite successful with 28 cylinders arranged in 4 staggered rows with 3000+ hp and around 3500 hp in later versions. Lycoming also built and tested a 36 cylinder 7755, A 5000+ hp behemoth with a displacement of 7755 cubic inches weighed in around 6000lbs. 
Ans since we started talking somewhere in this thread about engines being used in marine applications it is worth mentioning the aluminum Bentley marine 56 cylinder radial 
Getting back to "V" engines Chrysler developed a unique v16 2200 hp engine that took its power from the center of the engine instead of either end this was also Chrysler's first Hemi

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jul 18, 2020),

volodar (Jul 19, 2020)

----------


## DIYSwede

The Brits certainly have some obsessions for Merlin powered cars:










Link:
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/art...ed-rolls-royce

A compatriot of mine squeezing a Meteor V12 into a Ford Crown Vic:
https://drivetribe.com/p/wwii-tank-v...Q1ygX0JtWoW-eQ

----------


## hemmjo

I wonder if there were a lot of those engines left over there after WWII?

----------


## Hans Pearson

Not sure how this thread swapped over from B-24 engines to Merlins? There were some 19 000 Liberators built, and around 13 000 C-47 Dakotas which means a total of 102 000 PWA R1830 engines fitted to new aircraft of these types alone. There were a total of 173 618 of these engines built and there are still a number of DC-3's flying, and both new and second-hand spares are freely available.

----------


## Fredob

Wow! Very impressive.

----------


## Jon

> Photographers and camera equipment lined up in preparation for a nuclear test at Bikini Atoll, 1946.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jul 20, 2020),

Duke_of_URL (Jul 20, 2020),

jimfols (Jul 20, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 20, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

redundancy is the air force's way. and it usually works. I wonder if they remembered to take the pics....

----------


## McDesign

I suspect that they just heard "Bikini", and grabbed all the cameras they had . . .

Forrest in Atlanta

----------

Moby Duck (Jul 21, 2020),

toeless joe (Jul 20, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 20, 2020),

volodar (Jul 24, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I suspect that they just heard "Bikini", and grabbed all the cameras they had . . .
> 
> Forrest in Atlanta



Lol, but the test predates the swimwear...by only a few months. Word 'Bikini' was used as marketing hook to current events. 
Think about it, no different than everything now seems connected to COVID.

----------


## marksbug

what a boost crona got from this!!!

----------


## Jon

> Workers at a Rolls Royce factory lowering the crankshaft assembly into the crank case of a Merlin aircraft engine, England, 1942.



Largest image size available.

----------

jimfols (Jul 23, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Strange the front connecting rods look shorter than the middle ones.

----------


## IntheGroove

The crank journals are at different throws...

----------

Beserkleyboy (Jul 23, 2020),

Drew1966 (Jul 24, 2020)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Can you explain how/why? Thanks very much...and yes, I'm jealous of your spot at the lake...we camped at Incline Beach from 1954 onwards...cheers

Jim on a glorious sunny 18° winter day

----------


## IntheGroove

The only question about this picture is the graffiti...

----------


## IntheGroove

> Can you explain how/why? Thanks very much...and yes, I'm jealous of your spot at the lake...we camped at Incline Beach from 1954 onwards...cheers
> 
> Jim on a glorious sunny 18° winter day



I have only lived here for over 40 years and can't imagine living anywhere else...

----------


## Jon

> Riggers riveting the red-hot rivets on the lower outside south chord, Sydney Harbour Bridge, 1930-1931 / Sam Hood.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Duke_of_URL (Jul 27, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Jul 30, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

thaTS A LOT OF RIVITS. possiably they could of used better steel and a few less rivits.

----------


## Drew1966

> thaTS A LOT OF RIVITS. possiably they could of used better steel and a few less rivits.



Why? That would have meant less work, and the bridge was built to create jobs and help economic recovery.

p.s. you mis-spelt rivets.

----------


## marksbug

not less work, just move onto another project. Im sorry I spelt riviots rong...but aparently you could tell what I was refering two.

----------


## Drew1966

The Sydney Harbour Bridge was built in an attempt to fight the depression in Australia during the early 30’s, so there was no other work to go to. It employed tens of thousands of people, at many different levels. It was, to some extent, a success as it put money into the economy. The government we have now would never even think about doing such a thing. 

p.s. don’t let your spelling bother you, I’m just a finicky bastard raised by finicky parents!

----------


## marksbug

it dont bother me at all.I have many degrees/diplomas on the wall,I learned long ago if you miss spell something and somebody could not figure out what your sayin from this mispelled word than they would not of understood the entire sentence or what is being explained/conveyed.... now how can I go rong with that...oops did I spell rong rong?how can that be?

----------


## Duke_of_URL

Australia hasn't had an economic recession in 28 years. It's the only country in the world to be able to say that.
The Harbor Bridge is very impressive to see. A true Engineering marvel.

----------


## Drew1966

> Australia hasn't had an economic recession in 28 years. It's the only country in the world to be able to say that.
> The Harbor Bridge is very impressive to see. A true Engineering marvel.



Australia is experiencing a recession right now, but it is masked by the ‘rona crisis.

----------


## 12bolts

One of the little known facts about the Sydney Harbour Bridge construction. It was built from the buttress' at each end to a central point where the 2 halves were to be joined. The halves were cantilevered from cables, which during the process of joining the 2 halves were slowly slackened to allow the bridge to droop down and make the connection. However as this process was started in the afternoon the contraction of the cooling cables and bridge steelwork was faster than the cable tension could be released. Work was stopped once the engineers realised they were chasing their tails, and recommenced the following morning to make use of the heat expansion.

----------

volodar (Aug 31, 2020)

----------


## jdurand

Since I started learning Russian I'm no longer sure how to speak in English! Also never koold spel, I r injure-near

----------


## Frank S

> Australia is experiencing a recession right now, but it is masked by the ‘rona crisis.



Not to turn things into a political conflab but every 2 or 4 years the Politian's in the USA loose their collective minds if in fact they ever had a mind in the first place. this disrupts countries around the world some are effected more than others. there is an old saying that when America sneezes the whole world catches a cold. This political season is setting up to be the worst in the history of the planet all stops have been removed and the extreme radical facet is attempting to lobotomize the entire planet.
what is going on or what they are trying to feed everyone intravenously will be much more dangerous to the 7.8 billion souls on this planet than has ever been thought of I dare say a descriptive adjective for it may not even exist yet communism socialism Marxism what ever people have know or been subject to in the past and present are mere pin pricks of what may come to pass.
I apologize for my statement not having a single thing to do with our goals of providing useful information pertaining to HMT.net but I felt it needed saying and this post along with a few previous should be removed to quarantine or placed in a not so funny farm forum away from anything having to do with tools

----------

baja (Jul 28, 2020),

jdurand (Jul 28, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 31, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Thanks Frank, I always appreciate your post.

----------


## Unkle Fuzzy

Ditto!!!!!

----------


## Jon

> Forging 14 in. shells with steam hammer at Midvale Steel and Ordnance Co., 1918



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg



Also found this related gem: History of the Ammunition Industrial Base.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Jul 30, 2020)

----------


## Frank S

I don't suspect that will fit in my .177 Weatherby

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Jul 30, 2020)

----------


## volodar

> Why? That would have meant less work, and the bridge was built to create jobs and help economic recovery.
> 
> p.s. you mis-spelt rivets.



and you misspelled ´misspelled´ as ´mis-spelt´. no bfd.

----------


## volodar

> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg



Riggers riveting the red-hot rivets on the lower outside south chord, Sydney Harbour Bridge, 1930-1931 / Sam Hood.

How are these rivets kept ´red hot´ for this operation?

----------


## volodar

´Forging 14 in. shells with steam hammer at Midvale Steel and Ordnance Co., 1918´

i see the projectile, not the shell.

----------


## Frank S

> Riggers riveting the red-hot rivets on the lower outside south chord, Sydney Harbour Bridge, 1930-1931 / Sam Hood.
> 
> How are these rivets kept ´red hot´ for this operation?



Actually the rivets were heated on site as needed, in the early days they would have used small 17" diameter coal forges in more modern times they would have started using cylindrically shaped propane forges much like several knife makers use . Even more modern way of heating rivets on site is by induction coils. Induction coils can heat as rivet in seconds simply by passing the rivet through the high energy field.

----------

volodar (Aug 31, 2020)

----------


## hemmjo

> Riggers riveting the red-hot rivets on the lower outside south chord, Sydney Harbour Bridge, 1930-1931 / Sam Hood.
> 
> How are these rivets kept ´red hot´ for this operation?



There is a furnace on the ground. A guy take one out of the furnace, tosses it up to a guy who catches it, then hands it off to a guy that puts in into the hole, then a guy hits it with a big hammer, while another guy hold a block behind the head. Seriously...

click the link to watch on YouTube

----------

volodar (Aug 31, 2020)

----------


## Frank S

Tossing red hot rivets has always been a common practice among iron workers however on can only toss a 4 ounce object so far and doing so from possibly a barge moored below the bridge doesn't seem very likely given the height of the bridge. Iron workers who built the sky scrapers in NYC and other places carried their forges up with them. to each additional floor level I would suspect much the same would have been done on the Sydney Harbor bridge by heating and inserting the rivets from the inside holding the buck against them while the worker on the scaffold platform did the hammering probably everyone went deaf

----------

volodar (Aug 31, 2020)

----------


## daniel82

> Riggers riveting the red-hot rivets on the lower outside south chord, Sydney Harbour Bridge, 1930-1931 / Sam Hood.
> 
> How are these rivets kept ´red hot´ for this operation?



See the well-dressed rivet-tosser in the right side of the pic holding a pair of tongs.

----------


## Ralphxyz

Quote Originally Posted by volodar View Post
Riggers riveting the red-hot rivets on the lower outside south chord, Sydney Harbour Bridge, 1930-1931 / Sam Hood.

The video shows a squad of guys the picture shows one guy with a pneumatic hammer and another guy who might have something in his hand watching.

The hammer appears to be straight down and I do not see anyone below backing up the rivet.

Ralph

----------


## Jon

P-38s being finished outdoors, when Lockheed ran out of indoor space in their facility. Burbank, CA, 1943.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Jul 29, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 31, 2020),

volodar (Aug 31, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

My father worked on P-38s for Lockheed in Honolulu...

----------


## Ralphxyz

Lots of people walking around, I love the piles of junk all over the place.

----------


## marksbug

I had a uncle that worked for lockheed, my did did a lot with them too, especially where there was a issue with the c130's he knew that plane inside and out and has probly flown every single one.as well as flying them before the USAF even had them .he thought the schools as well as possibly had the most flight hours in them. he retired from the USAF his last 10 years or so was flying the black bird SOS plane. then went on to working for lockheed as the chief of training. he took every assignment that came along.Im surprised he wasent killed in combat as he spent way tomuch time in it and other places we were not at....He could not receive the medal of honor as "we"(the usaf) were never there. som he got the next one down....and oh somany others. I probably saw him a total of 2 years between the age of 1&13. I dont think he wanted us.....treated us all like sub standard people. mom too. he also hated the navy flyers...so... we planted his ass at the end of the runway at penscola navil air station. the navy's blue angles did a fly over during his service. a fitting place for him.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jul 31, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

I had the opportunity to work on this P-38 brass ashtray that was made for my friends father who was serving on a aircraft carrier in WWII. Made with bullets and shells, the tail had fallen off and the cleaning person threw it out. I made a pretty good replacement...

----------

Jon (Jul 29, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 31, 2020)

----------


## desbromilow

> ´Forging 14 in. shells with steam hammer at Midvale Steel and Ordnance Co., 1918´
> 
> i see the projectile, not the shell.



depending upon your terminology, the projectile is called a "shell" - hence the term "shelling the enemy trenches" and "shelling the beaches"... not all "cannons" use casings like pistols and rifles. The larger guns (think the Mighty Mo) use a projectile (shell), and then the propellant is loaded into the chamber in portioned lots, and the entire ensemble is initiated by a much smaller primer. There is several scenes in various movies showing how the guns in larger naval turrets are loaded.. the "bags" containing the propellant essentially rupture and disintegrate and the remnants are discharged out the muzzle with the rest of the smoke and roar as the gun is fired. It's been recently covered in Australian journalism that the powder bags for a number of field guns contained asbestos, and as such the gunnery crews were breathing asbestos as a result when they were enveloped in the smoke around the guns.

----------

volodar (Aug 31, 2020)

----------


## jdurand

My mom was an inspector at Wright (Write?) Aeronautical in her younger days, approved the B-52 engines. She could and did stand up to any boss or military brass that tried to get her to pass substandard engines to "make the numbers". Very kind, nice lady until someone tried to get her to cheat at her job.

----------

volodar (Aug 31, 2020)

----------


## Scotsman Hosie

I believe 'shell' is the correct term _for_ the projectile  for large ordinance like this. (Which usually carries an explosive charge, itself.)

----------

volodar (Aug 31, 2020)

----------


## 12bolts

As I understood it the propellant bags were made of silk, (originally), but now cotton or rayon, or other flammable material so as to be fully consumed during firing. Why would they employ a fibre that is designed to resist burning?

----------


## desbromilow

> As I understood it the propellant bags were made of silk, (originally), but now cotton or rayon, or other flammable material so as to be fully consumed during firing. Why would they employ a fibre that is designed to resist burning?



I do not know the answer to why... I asked the same question when it hit the news here. I could guess and say perhaps it was to reduce burning embers landing on the ground near the guns and starting a scrub fire, but that is just a guess on my part. I always worked on the principle that the bags were medium weight cotton or silk as well, so was quite surprised when the news stories talked about "a small amount of asbestos" being in them.

----------


## baja

> As I understood it the propellant bags were made of silk, (originally), but now cotton or rayon, or other flammable material so as to be fully consumed during firing. Why would they employ a fibre that is designed to resist burning?



I went to work for a Naval Ammunition Depot after high school and during the ordnance worker training the propellant for the 16" naval guns was discussed since the components were stored there. I don`t remember what the the main bag was made of but each one had a red silk section sewed on the bottom that contained black powder which was what ignited the grains of smokeless powder in the main charge. The smokeless powder was extruded like rifle powders are although on a much larger scale, each grain being more than 2" long with longitudinal holes which controlled the burning rate.

----------

volodar (Aug 31, 2020)

----------


## VinnieL

Thank Goodness she did! Those B-52's were beasts and I'm sure with the amount of years they have been in operation countless generations of aviators owe their lives to your mother's dedication!

----------


## marksbug

I know somebody that worked at a boeing plant. building and then later in QC. he retired early due to the make the quota **** and told to pas sub std planes ,components & work. he wont fly....i dont blame him for not flying.

----------

volodar (Aug 31, 2020)

----------


## VinnieL

I have an ex-brother-in-law who worked his whole career at a Boeing plant. He spent his whole career riding a 3-wheeled bicycle around the plant picking parts for shipping. His Dad and uncle also retired from there.

----------


## IntheGroove

A B-52 taking off is the loudest sound I have ever heard...

----------


## marksbug

yup those are loud for sure. I get many fighters a day over head,the sound is awesome. along with turbo props,helicoptors, osprays & such every day.I dread the day when I no longer hear them. either Im dead,Im totaly def or.....worse, we have no more freedom. Ive even had the space shuttle over head.just 3 miles for one of the many bases hear I see and hear a lot.

----------


## Toolmaker51

A projectile is ballistic portion of what might be called 'ammunition' as a general term. A shell can be fixed munitions [projectile and casing as an assembly] and then once fired commonly still known as shell, case, or casing. The majority of field guns fire fixed ammunition, overgrown versions of small arms ammunition [cartridge]. Most fixed ammunition has a primer struck by a firing pin. 
Large naval guns used bagged charges for several reasons, space saving, simpler handling of the projectile instead a very top-heavy shell, and somewhat able to regulate the powder charge. Smokeless powder is quite safe, many hard to ignite and hardly burn in open atmosphere, due to an unbalanced fire pyramid. They also do not explode, contrary to popular belief; however burn vigorously when contained. 
Without googling, my recollection is silk is reduced/ disintegrates upon firing without leaving embers in the bore, and exhausted by compressed air after firing. 
Early cannons firing black powder needed specific care for safety, as very easily ignited [even static electricity] and rapid burning. The bore was wet mopped, almost any metallic tools or boxes were copper or brass, and bore had to be very clean and dry when firing was over. Black powder is very hygroscopic, absorbing moisture from the air; promoting rust and acidic pitting. It was standard procedure to clean with hot soapy water and rinse hot enough to warm the barrel.
Black powder shooters today still follow the procedure.

----------

marksbug (Jul 31, 2020),

volodar (Aug 31, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> P-38s being finished outdoors, when Lockheed ran out of indoor space in their facility. Burbank, CA, 1943.



Every time I see a sentence/ photo with that point, of such astounding production rates, be it ammo, machine tools, planes, ships, Jeeps, M1 Garands', 1911-A1's....the same thought occurs.
"_And that's why WE are still speaking English, under our own flag, our own choices._".
Every time. 
No, not that old, born ~decade later, but relate closely. It never seems remote, past tense, or irrelevant. 
Never.

----------


## jackhoying

> As I understood it the propellant bags were made of silk, (originally), but now cotton or rayon, or other flammable material so as to be fully consumed during firing. Why would they employ a fibre that is designed to resist burning?



In 1984, my friend and I were on Norfolk naval base, walking along the pier where the USS Iowa battleship was moored. We were going to tour a small destroyer that was open to tours that day. As we passed the gangplank of the Iowa, we asked the guard if they were open for visitors. He said "We are not officially open, but we never turn down anyone who ask". An officer gave us a private tour, including the inside of of turret 1, as well as the spaces below deck. Very interesting how the powder is kept secure until the last second before it is delivered inside the turret.

----------

marksbug (Jul 31, 2020),

volodar (Aug 31, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

I toured the uss alabama about 15 years ago...wow...massive....awesome...and finally...dont get lost you may never be found. it was quite a trip. 
on another navy note if you ever happen nto be neer mobile alabama or pensacola florida. visit the uss alabama&museuem there or the oh so massive multi building Naval Air museum 40 miles into florida in pensacola florida. pensacola naval air station.the cradle of naval aviation. you might even get to see the navy blue angles practicing their new flight routine. totaly awesome!!! all of it, museums and angles!!

and to add to the ammo discussion...yup I have heard and watched the plane during the target practice...it's quite a sight. I sometimes hear them from my house.not as much as years gone by but there still out there firing away, dropping troops& equipment.

----------


## Frank S

> I toured the uss alabama about 15 years ago...wow...massive....awesome...and finally...dont get lost you may never be found. it was quite a trip. 
> on another navy note if you ever happen nto be neer mobile alabama or pensacola florida. visit the uss alabama&museuem there or the oh so massive multi building Naval Air museum 40 miles into florida in pensacola florida. pensacola naval air station.the cradle of naval aviation. you might even get to see the navy blue angles practicing their new flight routine. totaly awesome!!! all of it, museums and angles!!
> 
> and to add to the ammo discussion...yup I have heard and watched the plane during the target practice...it's quite a sight. I sometimes hear them from my house.not as much as years gone by but there still out there firing away, dropping troops& equipment.



I think it was sometime around 1983 or 84 when I took my girls to Disney world we had planned the trip so there would be several extra days both going and returning from there to allow me to get some enjoyment out of the vacation. when we stopped in Mobile and the girls saw the USS Alabama I wasn't at all sure if they even still wanted to venture on to Disney world. Our tour was limited as during that time they were doing some work in many areas of the ship so much of it was cordoned off from the tour, but none the less the tour was impressive as well as educationally informative.

----------


## gatz

We toured the USS Alabama; forget what year, but it was memorable. Of note...the kitchen area was used in the filming of Under Siege.
And the USS Drum was right near. We also took in that tour. Kids & wife were OK with it, but didn't enjoy it as much as I did.

----------


## marksbug

when I was there the drumm had just been put on land and wasn't supported, so needless to say we could not go in it. I think it may of been 2002 when my wife ran the olympic torch through mobile. they have added a few more things since then...

----------


## bruce.desertrat

I haven't seen any of them but I have done the Intrepid tour in NYC a few times.

----------


## marksbug

penscola NAS probably has more than the museems in DC&Va.

----------

stillldoinit (Sep 13, 2020)

----------


## Nick79

Looks like the rivets were holding up the bridge, not the steel

----------


## marksbug

> Looks like the rivets were holding up the bridge, not the steel



 in essence they are!!!

----------


## Jon

> The thirty-six men needed to fly and service a B-17E, 1942.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Aug 3, 2020),

clydeman (Aug 3, 2020),

jimfols (Aug 2, 2020),

Rangi (Aug 4, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 2, 2020),

volodar (Aug 31, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

The thirty-six men needed to fly and service a B-17E, 1942. No way to account those who built plane, engines, weaponry, wheeled equipment, uniforms, fuel, concrete...(and all the tiers below producing beforehand!)...

It matters not; war material or consumer goods, this is how a _real economy_ prospers. 
Not cubicle gophers of a service model economy.

----------

baja (Aug 3, 2020),

clydeman (Aug 3, 2020),

Drew1966 (Aug 23, 2020),

greyhoundollie (Aug 10, 2020),

high-side (Aug 3, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Eveleth Manual Training School. Eveleth, Minnesota, 1920s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg




More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelet...raining_School

----------

baja (Aug 7, 2020),

high-side (Aug 8, 2020),

jimfols (Aug 6, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

Wood Shop. Loved it...

----------


## CharlesWaugh

Is that a 4 FOOT bandsaw back there? Wow . . .

----------


## IntheGroove

Left handed bandsaw...

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Nah, it's set up the way MOST bandsaws are...I did have a left hander and it was a pain in the backside? I reckon that's a 30", just like the Crescent I learned on...I bought the left hander, because it was a 28", but ended up selling it...now I'm waiting on myself to build Mathias Wandel's 18"...best light a fire under my arse...Cheers

Jim

----------


## 12bolts

I dont know what you class a LH saw but that is set up the way every metal and wood bandsaw I ever used.

----------

Beserkleyboy (Aug 7, 2020),

jackhoying (Aug 7, 2020)

----------


## Nick79

Why so many wood lathes? Was turning a hard skill to teach? I recall our school's woodshed, we had 3 lathes, a thickness planer, table saw, 2 bandsaws, a mortising machine, 2 drill presses, 1 scroll saw and a grinder. 6 5'x5' work stations with 4 vises each and a bunch of hand tools.

----------


## hemmjo

It is not so hard to learn wood turning, it just takes more time to complete a task on a lathe. Considerably longer that the other tools you mention in your list. There are 14 students in that photo. During the time 6 students may be using the lathes, the other 8 would easily have time to use 1 bandsaw, as typically those cuts are quickly made and you move on to something different.

----------


## marksbug

Im excellent at making sawdust.

----------

Drew1966 (Aug 23, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Is that a 4 FOOT bandsaw back there? Wow . . .



Appears a 36". That pattern before and sometime past was typical of many brands, possibly re-branded from a single machine builder. I've a Moak, probably had identical guarding when it was young. Top of upper wheel well over 8 feet high, direct 5hp drive ~850 RPM; serious FPM with 36" wheels. A similar machine is named Crescent, and more common.
I've never seen a left-hand vertical bandsaw...the blade guides say right hand. Despite big throat, it's too close to corner of wall for large re-sawing, in thickness or width. When I get back to Mid West, mine gets a low slung carriage; either 4 swivel casters or a forklift pallet.

----------


## Jon

John Morrow Company factory interior.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg




More: Progress is fine, but it's gone on for too long.: We used to make things in this country. #31 : John Morrow Screw and Nut Company, Ingersoll, Ontario

----------

baja (Aug 9, 2020),

EnginePaul (Aug 21, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 10, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

You can smell the cutting oil...

----------


## jackhoying

Since they are a screw company, the screw machines are staggered that way in order to feed long stock into each one. Probably the job of younger workers was to keep each machine supplied with material.
Hard to imagine what it was like to work in those conditions. (no or little lighting, lack of ventilation, loud machines, etc)

----------


## Frank S

When setting up an operation such as the screw machine shop in post 1815 Had they installed the main overhead drive shaft at a few degrees angle then the machines could have been canted at an angle as well this would have allowed all of them to have been set up on an imaginary centerline they would have still had an offset relative to the next machine for bar feeding and loading but the isle ways would have been the same width from one end to the other of the workshop material flow both incoming and out going would have had a much smoother pathway

----------


## Jon

> Workers adjust the nozzles of shells in the National Shell Factory at Parkgate Street, Dublin, during the First World War. 1914.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Aug 12, 2020),

baja (Aug 12, 2020),

jimfols (Aug 11, 2020),

old_toolmaker (Aug 18, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 11, 2020)

----------


## Jon

B-29 Superfortresses being assembled at the Boeing plant in Renton, Washington.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Aug 17, 2020),

jimfols (Aug 16, 2020),

Paul Jones (Aug 16, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 16, 2020)

----------


## mklotz

If the Japanese had had rational leadership simply sending them a copy of that picture would have ended the war.

----------

baja (Aug 17, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 16, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

oops...somebody forgot to paint some of the stealth paint on some parts.

----------


## old_toolmaker

My dad was a bombardier on the B29 during WWII as a 1st Lt in the Army Air Corps.
I heard lots of stories as a kid.

----------


## jdurand

My mom was a final inspector of the engines, also interesting stories.

----------


## Jon

Replacing a lintel in Stonehenge's Sarsen Circle. 1914.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Aug 23, 2020),

Moby Duck (Aug 23, 2020),

mwmkravchenko (Aug 23, 2020),

Rangi (Aug 22, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 22, 2020),

Tule (Aug 23, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

The original builders used no steel...

----------


## McDesign

Just like in the 'timey days!

----------


## Toolmaker51

Plenty of demonstrations to lift without any tackle, jacking [or wedging] alternate ends, and raising immense blocks incrementally as they teeter.

I have limited equipment of actual rigging; but have moved up to 10k pounds with foosball shafts, pinch bars and simple band-sawn aluminum wedges. Eventually I'll make or purchase skates, but those require toe jacks for added height to insert.
Foosball shafts are only about 5/8" 16mm diameter....

----------

mwmkravchenko (Aug 23, 2020)

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

All of this to reset to Daylight Savings Time?

----------

baja (Aug 23, 2020),

Drew1966 (Aug 23, 2020),

MeJasonT (Aug 23, 2020),

Moby Duck (Aug 23, 2020),

mwmkravchenko (Aug 23, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 23, 2020)

----------


## MeJasonT

When we first built it we dug a hole and drop the rocks in drag the others on top then removed the spoil around them easy as, di another one in Devon and one in Lincolnshire. The bosses couldn’t manage their arses over a hole in the ground, so to speak. all ya needed was some good horses for all the poop ive just come out with.

To come back to earth for a moment - there is four stone circles ive heard of in the UK but stone henge is the most publically know and thanks to some dodgy builders back in 1914 the most complete. made very popular by hippies and druids and now a huge rock concert at Glastonbury. The "A" (A39) road running passed it has a history all of its own, it’s like the oldest road or something - vintage car enthusiasts love it for some nostalgic reasoning.

----------

jimfols (Aug 23, 2020),

mwmkravchenko (Aug 23, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 23, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Women at the Lever Zeep soap plant (now Unilever) in Vlaardingen, packing Sunlight soap bars into crates. Netherlands, 1910.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

EnginePaul (Sep 8, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

well they sure look happy...and look at the guys behind them.

----------


## Ralphxyz

At least 7 guys just standing around while the ladies do the work.

----------


## jimfols

I think the guys in the back are the Lever brothers.

----------


## MeJasonT

Jim - what all of them lol

----------


## Toolmaker51

Lever Brothers spoil a photo op. That's jacked up.
Lol.

But the Nederlandertje en Nederlandse are interesting enough.

----------

MeJasonT (Aug 23, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Jim - what all of them lol



Well sure; that happens with good clean living...

----------

MeJasonT (Aug 23, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

she should lever brothers at home. :ROFL:

----------

baja (Aug 24, 2020),

jimfols (Aug 23, 2020),

MeJasonT (Aug 23, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 23, 2020)

----------


## MeJasonT

girl in the middle on the left is smiling, she is either stupid, not aware of all the facts or blissfully happy she has all the answers.

----------


## jimfols

> girl in the middle on the left is smiling, she is either stupid, not aware of all the facts or blissfully happy she has all the answers.



Or she is shooting a bird at the photographer.

----------

marksbug (Aug 23, 2020),

MeJasonT (Aug 24, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> she should lever brothers at home.



Maybe she intended to, and ran out of room? We've all car-pooled with undesirables....

----------


## marksbug

or at the slave masters behind her...

----------


## Jon

> Men at work at the Cardiff Institute, making huge baskets, unique in size and construction, for loading press cake. Wales, 1938.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------


## mklotz

Are you sure they aren't making coracles ? It is Wales, after all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coracle

----------

baja (Sep 1, 2020),

jimfols (Aug 30, 2020)

----------


## Hans Pearson

> Are you sure they aren't making coracles ? It is Wales, after all.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coracle



A Coracle is a bowl shaped basket with a waterproof covering, only about 12 inches deep.

----------


## mklotz

They're probably trans-Atlantic bulk carrier coracles undergoing assembly inspection before waterproofing in a huge vat of treacle.

----------

baja (Sep 1, 2020),

jimfols (Aug 30, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 31, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

**** I had to get my glasses to read this..I thought it said they were making cockroaches baskets......

----------


## marksbug

ill have to admit those are pretty darn loud. jets & top fuel dragsters are about the loudest I've ever heard...and probably heard too much of them with out protection..but they are both the sound of freedom and as such I wish to hear them daily for the rest of my life.

----------

high-side (Sep 5, 2020)

----------


## Duke_of_URL

Today these men would be considered, "basket cases." ;-)

----------

old_toolmaker (Sep 1, 2020)

----------


## hemmjo

> Today these men would be considered, "basket cases." ;-)



Perhaps, but you would not be able to say that out loud, lest you be labeled "insensitive" .....  :Smile:

----------


## old_toolmaker

They look like little kids playing in mom’s clothes basket. These guys never grew up!

----------

marksbug (Sep 1, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

now my feelings are hurt.

----------

old_toolmaker (Sep 1, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Covelo Stables. Mendocino County, CA. 1925.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 3, 2020),

EnginePaul (Sep 8, 2020),

jimfols (Sep 2, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 2, 2020)

----------


## McDesign

Fourth from the right is really wearin' that hat!

Forrest

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Ooh, _experienced_ GUIDs...Windows only lets me generate new, inexperienced GUIDs..

----------


## owen moore

The 4th guy is wearing a Tom Mix hat. I love it!

----------


## skibo

It didn't really matter what was going on, they always wore a hat!!

----------


## Paul Jones

Growing up in New Jersey in the 1950's I had to wear a hat whenever we commuted by train to NYC. It was expected even if you were a six year old. That is just the way things went on the East coast. By the time I spent a summer in 1966 working in Arizona, everyone wore hats. The summer temperatures hit 120 degrees and long before global warming.

----------


## melbakid

Been to Covelo several times. Not much there. Out in the middle of no where. Pretty little valley though. Had a friend that lived up above Covelo and we used to go hunt up there with him.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Growing up in New Jersey in the 1950's I had to wear a hat whenever we commuted by train to NYC. It was expected even if you were a six year old. That is just the way things went on the East coast. By the time I spent a summer in 1966 working in Arizona, everyone wore hats. The summer temperatures hit 120 degrees and long before global warming.



Have pondered such 'traditions' or expectations many times over the years. Many turn out just to have been clever marketing; not unlike proliferation of 'designer' COVID masks. The crowd that accepts masks so readily is the ready-made customer base.
Now, when it comes to head covers in the blazing sun of the Southwest....

----------


## marksbug

my brain is telling me this is a drawing/painting. not a photo. as for the hats....it's not the hat that makes the man,it's the man that makes the hat work...or not. as for me Ive never been able to wear hats. I sometimes see friends that always wear hats and seeing them without a hat...hmm you look familiar, do I know you? one of our 6 kids is a hat wearer....cowboy hats.and he makes them work well.

----------


## Jon

> my brain is telling me this is a drawing/painting.



I found that one via Shorpy.com. They tend to touch up the photos they find, and it gives some of them that over-realistic look that can seem unusual for a 100-year-old photo. Here's a good example.

BEFORE:


AFTER:

----------

jimfols (Sep 3, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 3, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

oh I see, kinda like makup on a 40 footer....from 40 feet away they look great!!!

----------

Toolmaker51 (Sep 3, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

Butterface. Everything is nice but her face...

----------


## marksbug

I remember her well.....

----------


## IntheGroove

Ol' what's her name...

----------


## Frank S

I don't care how it is signed or who signs it as long as it clears the bank.

----------


## marksbug

ya!!! you remember her two!!!

----------


## Jon

Steam skidder and logging crew. Texas, 1907.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...r_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 7, 2020),

jimfols (Sep 6, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 6, 2020),

volodar (Sep 6, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Certainly a integrated team, not sure about the guy inthe overcoat except possible he worked on the skidder and needed the protection.

----------


## Jon

> Kay McNulty, Alyse Snyder, and Sis Stump operate the differential analyzer in the basement of the Moore School of Electrical Engineering, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, circa 1942-1945.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg




More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_analyser

----------

baja (Sep 12, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 11, 2020),

volodar (Sep 11, 2020)

----------


## Jon

C&EI Railroad work crew. Villa Grove, IL. 1925.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 15, 2020),

clydeman (Sep 14, 2020),

jimfols (Sep 13, 2020),

marksbug (Sep 13, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 13, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

crap, no wonder why my shipment is late!! they are all just standing around!!!! I need that shipment of round tuits now!!!! I cant do any thing else till it get that shipment!!!

----------


## Ralphxyz

You need your round tuits and they are posing at the round house, they could head off in any direction.

Ralph

----------

marksbug (Sep 17, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

You can use this one that I've had for over 40 years...

----------

marksbug (Sep 17, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

I need a lot more than just that one, and thats pretty thin I dont know if it will hold up, especially with the hurricane that just went through...real effing slow.

----------


## Jon

> Kaplan-type turbine runner before installation. Photo by U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Sep 20, 2020),

marksbug (Sep 20, 2020),

nova_robotics (Sep 21, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 20, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

sweet , variable pitch!! we used to run some boat props like that.

----------


## McDesign

looks like a long way to fall - such a cool pic wouldn't be allowed today . . .

----------


## Ralphxyz

I assume this is a turbine for a hydro-electric plant.

----------


## hemmjo

> I assume this is a turbine for a hydro-electric plant.



yes... https://www.renewablesfirst.co.uk/hy...plan-turbines/

----------


## marksbug

oh no thats for a wind turbine,I dont see any water anywhere :Smash:

----------

hemmjo (Sep 21, 2020)

----------


## Jon

1941 dress factory workers. San Juan, Puerto Rico.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...y_fullsize.jpg

----------

volodar (Sep 28, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> US Army Privates Mearl Hatfield and Clen C. Campbell operating the portable laundry diesel engine, New Guinea, 19 Apr 1943.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------


## marksbug

are me privates near that diesel engine doing laundry....better keep them privates away from them belts or your laundry will really be soiled!!!along with your love life :Sweating:

----------

Toolmaker51 (Sep 27, 2020)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Well they'd _have_ to be privates, because making a corporal do it would be ..._corporal punishment_...[gdr]

----------

baja (Sep 28, 2020),

marksbug (Sep 28, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 27, 2020),

volodar (Sep 28, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

marksbug and bruce.desertrat cut ahead in joke queue. 
So I took the high road and looked at history. Mountains of content for Allied effort [340,000 troops] to capture from defending Imperial forces of 500,000. Operative laundry ~13 months after amphibious landings. Among, if not toughest campaign in Pacific Theater, ‎23 January 1942 – August 1945

----------

bruce.desertrat (Sep 28, 2020),

marksbug (Sep 28, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

no job was eazy there, no job was unimportant,they did what was needed and told to do. some pulled their weight some pulled more.some were under qualified some were over qualified. sorry for jumping ahead, but my laundry was almost done and I didn't want any wrinkles from my wife....

----------


## Jon

Blacksmithing class at West High School in Salt Lake City, Utah. 1915.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Sep 30, 2020),

clydeman (Oct 3, 2020),

high-side (Sep 30, 2020),

jimfols (Sep 29, 2020),

mwmkravchenko (Sep 29, 2020),

Philip Davies (Oct 4, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

lunch time!!!! looks like cooking class!!!

----------


## bruce.desertrat

> lunch time!!!! looks like cooking class!!!



Lol, that reminds me of the year-end party we had in my HS welding/blacksmith class. A buddy of mine's uncle was the local Hebrew National dealer so he got a dozen packages of hotdogs and we roasted 'em over the forges (ours we gas not coal fired, tho...) took about 15 seconds per ...

----------


## Ralphxyz

I want a Buffalo Forge forge!

Ralph

----------


## CharlesWaugh

Are those adjustable exhaust hoods? Is there some blower that pulls the smoke/etc. out of the room through those adjustable hoods?

Anybody know?

----------


## mwmkravchenko

And this is why we have such a dysfunctional workforce today. 

People were trained early how to work by people that knew their trades and all the associated information concerning them.

----------


## Frank S

> Are those adjustable exhaust hoods? Is there some blower that pulls the smoke/etc. out of the room through those adjustable hoods?
> 
> Anybody know?



The hoods you see over the forges are not for exhaust, they are for intensifying and concentrating the amount of heat that can be produced

----------

toeless joe (Sep 29, 2020)

----------


## Drew1966

The whole world took a serious downturn when it stopped being about quality and money took over.

----------

Andyt (Sep 30, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 1, 2020)

----------


## hemmjo

Both of these comments play a significant role in the loss of pride in workmanship, and in the quality of goods are services today. 




> And this is why we have such a dysfunctional workforce today. 
> 
> People were trained early how to work by people that knew their trades and all the associated information concerning them.







> The whole world took a serious downturn when it stopped being about quality and money took over.



The real problems however are much more complex. Below are some of my views on the subject.

1) Apprentice programs have a difficult time keeping up with changes in technology. People trained, by people that knew their trades and all the associated information concerning them. will seldom be able to reach the same level of competence as their teacher. The result is, for each generation, skills and knowledge are lost. 

2) Technology in all trades changes so quickly, 1/2 life of information gets shorter every year. Recent graduates of any program in any field, are already behind as the program they completed was designed before the latest advancement was developed. (trades here includes most everything, from Doctors to Plumbers to Fisherman)

3) The push a while back to make sure that everyone can go to college was key to the problem. The result of this was devaluation of vocational education. When I began teaching in 1974, every year, before scheduling classes for high school, every 8th grade student one on a field trip to the local vocational high school, to expose students the possibilities. By the time I retired in 2009, that was gone, students are discouraged from attending vocational schools. Schools are now graded on the percentage of students accepted into college. Yes schools actually get a grade card now!!! https://reportcard.education.ohio.gov

High Schools PUSH students to go to college, even though they are better suited to a different track, because it scores points on the school report card. This has recently changed to include tracks other than 4 year institutions. Although they are tracked separately giving the impression that anything less than real college is somehow less important.

4). I believe that colleges are mainly responsible for #3 as they are in it to make money. The more students, the more money. I also believe that government collaborated with colleges for this push, while claiming to help students by providing low interest loans because everyone should be able to go to college. This allowed colleges to slowly raise tuition leaving graduates with huge debt. 

5) Far too many students role models are just plain BAD. Too many people are just rude to each other. The level of disrespect in the world is  SCARY on so many levels. 

When I was teaching, during the first days of class I often told students they would never be as smart as I am. Then I would pause just a little to let them think about that for a while, it was interesting to watch the look of defiance grow on their faces. But I had their attention. I would then continue, you MUST end up much smarter than I am. You are going to be running things when I am old. Then explain the reasoning, I cannot possibly teach you everything I know, in addition, much of when I know is already outdated. My plan to do is to teach you how to learn, so you will be able to learn about and to do things that have not even been thought of yet.

I tried to instill that pride in what they do, no matter what it is, if you are going to do it, do it right. 

Enough of my rant. I admit I am little fired up this morning!!

Smile at people, even it is hidden by a mask. Better yet, draw a smile on your mask!!!!

----------

Beserkleyboy (Sep 30, 2020),

mklotz (Sep 30, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 1, 2020),

volodar (Sep 30, 2020)

----------


## mklotz

Thanks for the rant and, believe me, that is not meant sarcastically.

I'd add to the points you've made but I've been down that rabbit hole too often and have resolved to not waste my time trying to solve another societal ailment beyond my reach.

The one point in your post that I want to thoroughly endorse is contained in this quote...


"My plan to do is to teach you how to learn, so you will be able to learn about and to do things that have not even been thought of yet."


Developing techniques and, more importantly, the discipline needed to learn from experience after leaving school is the key to coping successfully with life.

----------

Beserkleyboy (Sep 30, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 1, 2020)

----------


## Jon

John Morrow Screw and Nut Company employees. 1909.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Oct 1, 2020),

baja (Oct 1, 2020),

jimfols (Sep 30, 2020)

----------


## 12bolts

They are a downdraft hood. Some of the exhaust can be recirculated through the blower to increase heat, but they do extract through the floor via a ducted system.

----------


## Frank S

> They are a downdraft hood. Some of the exhaust can be recirculated through the blower to increase heat, but they do extract through the floor via a ducted system.



It looks like you are correct when I blow up the picture I could see what looked like a rectangular duct going down the back of the forges

----------


## Jon

> Threshing by steam engine on W.M. Fellows farm near Kearney, Nebraska. 1910.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Oct 4, 2020),

marksbug (Oct 4, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

feeding a nation. back when people knew how to work.

----------

VinnieL (Oct 5, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

And the guy in the center is proof that there was always someone that would lounge against the machine...

----------

greyhoundollie (Oct 6, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

hes' just kicking the rocks outa the way so the guy driving has a smoother ride since this was before dampners were installed on tractors....what a nice guy he is.

----------


## greyhoundollie

Yep, he is a leaner.

----------


## marksbug

nah, he's just doing somethen sexy to atractor  :Rimshot:

----------

12bolts (Oct 7, 2020)

----------


## neilbourjaily

That is a machine that was driven to a spot in the field and parked. It was not used to motor around the field. It's sole purpose was to act as a power source to implements that also were placed in the field. 
More important is the societal structure that existed then. Typically, a traction engine and the implements were owned by the cooperative to which the farmers subscribed. At that time there was little of the single farmer owning a shed-full of tractors and implements. Industrial farming was barely a pipe dream. In those days, 100 years ago, there was a strong socialist streak among farmers.
It's simply incredible to contemplate how much and how little has changed in the past 100 years. 100 years ago we were in the infantile days of characterizing quantum theory. Today quantum theory is taught in elementary chemistry, no more solar system model of electrons. 100 years ago farmers were socialistic. Today farmers live a life of debt having cash only at the ends of their careers when they sell out.

----------


## hemmjo

There is a big difference between being socialistic and being cooperative. In a cooperative situation, both sides have something to offer. 

In the last six months, I have had well over a million dollars worth of equipment on my property to do site work. There is NO WAY, I would ever be able to afford to buy or even to rent that much equipment for length of the time I have used it. 

Prior to having access to this pool of equipment I have spent many hours doing maintenance and repairs to this and other equipment owned by this company. I was paid very well for that work. I made a proposal, that either of us could have turned down, for this exchange of skills for equipment. Socialism does not work that way.

It is unfortunate that so many farmers are in so much debt, but there are many farmers who are doing very well. The factors that contribute to the plight of farmers is way beyond the scope of this discussion. But is has more to do with past and present policies of governments. 

John

----------

greyhoundollie (Oct 15, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

many farms have sole to big corprations that manage the farms like conagra and others. some farmers stay and work some dont.but if it's what you want to do, staying on "your family farm" doing the work you love for a corpration that tells you what and when can be a lot better than wondering if and when you will be homeless&farmless. I talked to a farmer some 18 years ago( also former pro baseball player) he was in his late 80's, he and my dad played ball& went to school togeather, best buddies. he had a big farm.then passed it along to conagra to manage was extremely proud that his family far would stay feeding america and he would stay on it. and he was quite well off before and after, more so after and big weight lifted off his mind of if&when. there are many farmers that did not know how to run a farm, just in all ventures there is a better way, a easyer way,a more productive way. and a stubborn way. and oh somany rong ways. and yes many right ways too.yes I knew that was a power unit for the equipment down field. that same unit could be used for many things as well as logging when needed. the feller leaning on the wheel was just posing with his pride and joy for the photographer.

----------


## Jon

Unloading oyster luggers. Baltimore, Maryland, 1905.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Oct 10, 2020),

clydeman (Oct 9, 2020),

jackhoying (Oct 9, 2020),

jimfols (Oct 9, 2020),

volodar (Oct 10, 2020)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Is everyone so nicely dressed on the payroll?

----------


## jimfols

'1911'
The skipjack is a traditional fishing boat used on the Chesapeake Bay for oyster dredging. It remains in service due to laws restricting the use of powerboats in the Maryland state oyster fishery .

----------

volodar (Oct 10, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Is everyone so nicely dressed on the payroll?



Doubtful. 
With only 2, possibly 3, doing work I suspect the remainder are just waiting for their ship to come in...

----------


## Frank S

The nicely dressed ones are standing around allowing the stench of the Warf to permeate into their suits so when they get home their wives won't be able to tell where they really spent most of the day

----------


## neilbourjaily

Brokers, wholesalers, distributors. These are not the men who get themselves dirty.

----------


## Jon

Riveting an M3 tank.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Oct 11, 2020)

----------


## Frank S

future enrollees to the school for the deaf

----------


## IntheGroove

Does that hammer or do one punch...

----------


## Big Sexy

Its not for rivets! Come on people, you know that is a Sasquatch size micrometer. 🤯 they have to make sure the armor is at the proper thickness to repel the anti tank rifle rounds.

----------

marksbug (Oct 13, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> It’s not for rivets! Come on people, you know that is a Sasquatch size micrometer.  they have to make sure the armor is at the proper thickness to repel the anti tank rifle rounds.



And man upper left is signaling thimble man, "more turns, anvil still not touching!"?

----------


## McDesign

Huh - a micrometer!

Well that makes perfect sense!

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

> Unloading oyster luggers. Baltimore, Maryland, 1905.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg



Bottom right hand corner of pic shows just how long we've been chucking our junk in the rivers, lakes and oceans! Looks like the youngest ship's Captain in the front on the left. Also, isn't that Buster Keaton in front of the big wagon???

----------

marksbug (Oct 13, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

now thats quality control!!!.

----------


## 12bolts

With a frame like that I'm wondering if that just hydraulicly "squeezes" the rivets to form them?

----------


## Toolmaker51

> With a frame like that I'm wondering if that just hydraulicly "squeezes" the rivets to form them?



Well, not in that era, but close. 
By the mid-60's, a process named "clinching" had been developed. _Clinching joins sheet metal by drawing and forming the part materials into an interlock...eliminating welding and fasteners...no sparks, fumes or heat._
https://btmcomp.com/clinching

----------

Jon (Oct 14, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Workers baking bread at the Colonial Bread Factory. Springfield, Missouri. 1950.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## bruce.desertrat

When I was a little kid (I think second or third grade) we went on a field trip to the local Rainbo bakery to see how it was made. I still remember how good the whole building smelled.

----------


## Ralphxyz

I suppose there is reason that the guy stacking the bread on the tray is not 20 feet closer to the guys unloading the bread from the oven, maybe it has to cool.

Ralph

----------


## greyhoundollie

Thanks for showing that side John. The 1970's - 1990's Was one of those government change periods that affected farming wall to wall. The government pushed "go big or go away" programs. It was also a period when the government was filled with lawyer, banker, and accountant types, who had never lived, or worked on a farm, who attempted to change farming into an industrial manufacturing business. They did not and DO NOT to this day, understand that farming is different. I had a bull struck by lightning last Christmas time. There is NO government program, or federal procedure for planning a lightning strike into your farm operation. And more specifically it was a bull that was struct not a cow. That of course changes the problem for the farmer in a way someone who never lived on a farm could figure out the difference this problem affects your income over the next 3 years.

----------

baja (Oct 16, 2020),

hemmjo (Oct 15, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 15, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

I'm no farmer, but I do free what the electrocuted bull can't...

----------


## Frank S

I think it was in 1959 or very early 1960 when my folks were invited on a tour through the brand new Tasty Bread factory. To this day I can still remember the aroma of the fresh baked bread and the taste of the slice of bread I was given, buttered with real butter the slice was so thick my little hands could hardly hold its thickness.
then twice since I have toured the MRS Baird's bread factory once in the 3rd grade and again 2 years later in the 7th grade yes I jumped grades a few times but neither time at the Baird's bread visits did the ambiance or the aroma even come close to matching that first visit.

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Most likely the space is in case of accumulation. If the guy receiving the finished loaves has to go take a leak the conveyor fills up until he gets back... hopefully after thoroughly washing his hands for at least 20 seconds with soap and warm water. Sorry, reverted to my Food Safety / Safety Manager role!

----------


## Jon

> Stokers shoveling coal into the boilers of the battleship USS Massachusetts in 1897.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Toolmaker51

Easy bet; when one of us sailors mentions the good old days, aren't thinking this far back.

----------


## Frank S

And most certainly not this far back

----------


## jimfols

number 1934
When viewing old stuff like this I usually think of the technology available at the time, and how great it was.
Then I found this and was saddened.
Massachusetts being scuttled off Pensacola, Florida

----------

marksbug (Oct 21, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

Now countless creatures call it home...

----------


## bruce.desertrat

She's now a National Archeological site, artificial reef and a popular diving location. A much better fate than being sent to the breakers, I'd think.

----------


## Frank S

> She's now a National Archeological site, artificial reef and a popular diving location. A much better fate than being sent to the breakers, I'd think.



yeah but look at all the Hyundai's and KIAs it could have made

----------

toeless joe (Oct 19, 2020),

VinnieL (Oct 18, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

Hyundai's and KIAs are made from old beer cans...

----------


## Toolmaker51

Responding to USS Michigan post 1935 on; no not THAT far back. I've rowed, but never uphill. 
They scuttled her yes, but NAVY smart enough to remove turrets and barrels from the larger armament along with who-knows other materiel.
Certainly no one disdains artificial reefs, the inhabitants and visitors opportunity.
And foreign autos, could have made many, except a 1900's NAVY vessel is a poor supply of plastic......

----------

jackhoying (Oct 19, 2020)

----------


## TrickieDickie

The most important job which was the lowest paid and worst job on the Titanic was men shoveling coal to fire the boilers.

----------


## Jon

Unloading bananas. New Orleans, LA. Circa 1903.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Oct 21, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

Ships and trains but no crates and cranes...

----------


## Ralphxyz

I wonder if loading bananas is still done by hand? I know the reason they were not done with crates and cranes was because the bruised so easily.

Ralph

----------


## marksbug

I still load bananas by hand hear. one at a time...peal, eat, peal eat.peal eat.then repeat.no time for monkeying around with cranes.

----------


## marksbug

> number 1934
> When viewing old stuff like this I usually think of the technology available at the time, and how great it was.
> Then I found this and was saddened.
> Massachusetts being scuttled off Pensacola, Florida
> Attachment 36936



 lots of divers having fun in that ship again.as well as lots of fish.it's a few miles from me...off shore of coarse. I watched it go down.it went perfectly down as planed witch is kinda rare. I wish I could of got some machines off of it first...

----------


## neilbourjaily

Shipping bananas by the bunch has gone the way of shipping swinging beef (those are bunches being offloaded from the boat, composed of hands, which are what you see on the shelf). Everything is boxed now. Unitization makes for a more buildable pallet when it comes to getting the grub to the grocery stores from the warehouses. Grocers and shippers continue to negotiate their way to standardized containers.

----------


## thevillageinn

6 foot, 7 foot, 8 foot...bunch!

----------


## IAMSatisfied

> I wonder if loading bananas is still done by hand? I know the reason they were not done with crates and cranes was because the bruised so easily.
> 
> Ralph



They use trolleys on the plantations to get them to the washing & packing house where they get boxed & palletized.

----------

jimfols (Oct 22, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 22, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Ford Motor Company assembly line workers. 1913.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Oct 24, 2020),

clydeman (Oct 23, 2020),

jimfols (Oct 23, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 23, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

....and fire extinguishers for everyone! Wonder how long that realization took.

----------


## gatz

Model Ts or As ?

----------


## IntheGroove

Model T with what looks like an electric starter...

----------


## gatz

hmmm, transmission looks like a Model A

----------


## marksbug

the fenders hanging look to be T fenders. but Im not sure about the date of 1913....possiably not even ford....I dont see any blue ovals :Rimshot:

----------


## mechanic217

Model As being assembled, the photo is dated wrong A was built 1928-1931 give or take a few months on each end.

----------


## Frank S

> Model As being assembled, the photo is dated wrong A was built 1928-1931 give or take a few months on each end.



defiantly not a Model T transmission and the bodies in the far end of the photo suggest later A's as well the roundness almost suggests the 32 Brookville bodies for the model B except the smaller more rectangle rear windows are more 29 or 30

----------


## baja

There is a radiator grille hanging upside down near the back that definitely looks like a 31.

----------


## marksbug

I fingered it out!!! I clicked on the link to have a better look, they transposed the date from 1931 to 1913.

----------


## Jon

Highway Bridge workers. St. Charles, Missouri. 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Oct 26, 2020),

jimfols (Oct 25, 2020),

nova_robotics (Oct 26, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

looks like it's for train to me..... and modern day builders laying around waiting for the free payday......

----------


## 12bolts

Bananas are still cut and loaded by hand onto trailers out in the plantations here in NQ. They are then off loaded onto hooks that carry them through a wash down before being sorted and graded. Also all done by hand. They do mark easily. You would never see them stacked as they are shown to the left of that rail car.

----------


## Jon

> Workers building new Boston post office wear WWI helmets to protect them from fatal rivets, November 1931.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## marksbug

so shouldent they stop using fatal rivets?? :Smash:

----------


## IntheGroove

That is the most staged photo yet...

----------


## VinnieL

Yes, like the dude in the tie would have even gotten his hands dirty there.

----------


## volodar

defiantly not a Model T transmission. Don´t understand the defiance.

----------


## Nick79

The worker leaning against the girder on the right, looks like he could slip right off.

----------


## jdurand

A certain stage rigging guy like to start inspections by walking on the stage and yelling HEADS! Then count the number of hardhats that hit the floor as most people look up.

minus two.

Hard hat not secure
You looked up right at a potentially falling object

----------


## marksbug

flock of birds in the sky, why do you poop in my eye....

----------


## hemmjo

> flock of birds in the sky, why do you poop in my eye....



Have you ever noticed when your dogs water bowl is sitting outside, like on the patio for example, in clear view of the sky, there is bird poop all around it but no where else on the patio? Like they are trying to hit the bowl?

----------

marksbug (Oct 29, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

no there just drinking from the bowel as well as pooping at the same time,in&out saves time.

----------


## Jon

Workers assemble magnetos and flywheels on a moving assembly line for Ford vehicles. Highland Park, Michigan. 1913.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## marksbug

making a living. it's kinda strange how machines replaced the worker and the cost of the car went up dag near 1000%..or more!!!! :Head Scratch:  sum ting wong

----------


## Jon

Mushroom cleaners. Nilsiä, Finland. 1926.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## IntheGroove

And boot repair...

----------


## Jon

> A U.S. Census Bureau clerk (left) prepares punch cards using a pantograph similar to that developed by Herman Hollerith for the 1890 Census, while a second clerk (right) uses a 1930s key punch to perform the same task more quickly. The agency used punch cards to record and sort data using mechanical tabulators based on Holleriths designs until replacing them with computers and magnetic computer tape in the 1950s.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Nov 8, 2020)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

I started my programming career using those same punch cards. I was lucky, my dad worked in an office adjacent to the school, and they had 3 of them that were idle most of the time, versus having to stay up til all hours waiting to get to the ones in the computer center on campus. Fortran 101 class, the final project was programming Conway's game of Life. Very very slow: enter code on the cards, drop off deck at the input window, wait wait wait get your printout (good ol' 15x11 fanfold continuous printouts) at the output window, find bug, rinse and repeat.

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Bruce, same deal with me...UC San Diego 1971. Burroughs 6700. We used to do the keypunch at night to alleviate the crowd, the labs were all left wide open at night back then...Our term project was Monopoly, very tedious as I remember...oh, and we were able to use the wall phones in the labs to use the UC 'tie line' phone system. dial the code for the campus, 9 for outside line and voila! talk to the GF or family...cheers

Jim in Sunny Sth Coast AUS

----------


## TrickieDickie

I took Fortran in college too

----------


## desbromilow

> I took Fortran in college too



My year was the last to learn Fortran at my uni (1994) and it was a mix of Fortran 77 and Fortran 90 (a few assignments in each) - the following year I believe did C or Matlab for the same assignments.

----------


## marksbug

I took fourtrains when I was in italy. :Head Scratch:  :Smash:

----------

volodar (Nov 12, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Election poll workers counting ballots in Montreal, Canada. 1938.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Nov 10, 2020)

----------


## IAMSatisfied

Back when poll watchers weren't prevented from doing their job.

----------


## marksbug

now they have pole dancers to keep the pole watchers from seeing whats really going on. I declare the election null and void!!!

----------

Toolmaker51 (Nov 18, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> IBM employees at work on a punch card machine assembly line. Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, ca. 1959.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## IntheGroove

The analog world is cumbersome...

----------


## VinnieL

That was when you could fix computers with a ball-peen hammer. (as pictured in this view)

----------

jackhoying (Nov 12, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

you still can fix them that way....then order another as this world is a disposable one especialy with that stuff.

----------


## Jon

> Excavating for the London Underground, Great Northern and City Railway, London, c. 1903.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Nov 16, 2020),

Duke_of_URL (Nov 16, 2020),

jimfols (Nov 15, 2020)

----------


## Duke_of_URL

And here it is nearly finished... (source: https://www.wondersofworldengineerin...derground.html)

----------

12bolts (Nov 17, 2020)

----------


## Jon

> Shaft sinking at Mt Isa Mines, Queensland, Australia in the early 1970s. The grab on the right loaded the kibbles which were hoisted to surface after the shaft bottom was drilled and blasted. The shaft ended up 3,800 ft deep.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg

----------


## McDesign

So - that's where the kibbles in dog food come from?
Who knew?

----------


## hemmjo

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Kibble may refer to:

Dry compound feed, especially when used as dog food or cat food.
Chalk and flint rubble, also known as kibble in East Devon, used to consolidate ground.
*A large Bucket (machine part), as used to raise ore from a mine shaft, see shaft mining*
A rock of crack cocaine.
Kibbled wheat, a type of coarsely milled flour.

Just FYI.. I had no idea...

----------

baja (Nov 19, 2020),

suther51 (Nov 18, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 18, 2020)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

This looks like a bunch of dirty little mini humans trying to swing a 5 gallon bucket!

----------

jimfols (Nov 19, 2020)

----------


## Dry Creek Smithing

I too thought that it was a picture of a diorama of of a mining process. The kibble buckets usdd truely look like standard 5 gal. Buckets. Thanks for sharing!

----------


## marksbug

tin toy army men operating the tin toy army man factory to make more tin toy army men troupes so they can take over.

----------


## Jon

> Threshing outfit, Alberta, Canada, circa 1900.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Nov 21, 2020),

clydeman (Nov 20, 2020),

jimfols (Nov 20, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Nov 29, 2020)

----------


## hemmjo

Looking at that LONG flat belt keeping the steam boiler well away from the pile of dried grain stalks makes me wonder, How many times that caught that pile on fire before they went to the LONG belt?

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Nov 29, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

I like that tractor!!!

----------


## Ralphxyz

Thanks hemmjo, I wondered about long belt every time I have seen this or similar pictures.

Ralph

----------


## 12bolts

Only once  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------

IntheGroove (Nov 21, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Morgan Engineering work crew. Year unknown.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Nov 23, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Nov 29, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

Although you can't tell by their faces, I would bet those workers were happy to get to wear their Sunday best for the photo...

----------


## IAMSatisfied

Morgan is still around after 152 years... they made big guns for the Spanish American War:

----------

IntheGroove (Nov 22, 2020),

Jon (Nov 23, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Nov 29, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

It's great how Morgan seamlessly switched from steam to electricity...

----------


## hemmjo

In reference to photo #2000 and the short discussion following; Today is the birthday of John Froelich, inventor of the gas-powered tractor.

His inspiration came from the fires caused by steam powered threshing machines. 

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-...d5a358a45263f4

----------

marksbug (Nov 24, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Nov 29, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

so who invented the spark arrestor!!!for the tractor of coarse.

----------


## Jon

> The stove fabrication assembly line at the Cavalier Corporation in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Hamilton County (Tenn.) 9/18/1952



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Nov 27, 2020),

jimfols (Nov 26, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Nov 29, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

I think those are heaters not stoves...

----------

EnginePaul (Nov 27, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Nov 29, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

I thought furnaces..

----------


## old_toolmaker

They were also known as oil stoves back in the day. My dad used to sell and service them in his hardware store. I grew up helping him in those days. I remember those nail kegs shown in the picture as well. I miss the old days.

----------

EnginePaul (Nov 27, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Dec 4, 2020)

----------


## jimfols

Number 2011

Looks like they gave the mallet to the correct man.

----------

jackhoying (Nov 26, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

I noticed him too, looks to be almost 2x as big as the others. he may be with the adjustment team...or be the team

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Dec 4, 2020)

----------


## Dragonhand

I think the guy staring at the camera would rather be at the beach with these girls! https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...449#post170449

----------


## Jon

> Employees of the Battelle Research Institute operating a UNIVAC 1 computer in Frankfurt, West Germany, October, 1956.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Nov 30, 2020),

Duke_of_URL (Nov 30, 2020),

jimfols (Nov 29, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Nov 29, 2020)

----------


## hemmjo

Now you carry way more computing power around in your pocket, or even strapped to your wrist.

----------

marksbug (Nov 29, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Nov 29, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

na, thats the old suncity recording studio, :Rimshot:  it's only rock&roll !!! and of coarse we also have cameras&recording studios in out pockets too. :Popcorn:

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Dec 4, 2020)

----------


## IntheGroove

Although I have one, it's nice to not need an oscilloscope to be on the computer...

----------


## Duke_of_URL

Notice the absence of CRT displays or PC keyboards. Today's generation would be as lost in that room as if they walked into an alien spaceship. Writing software on punch cards and troubleshooting your program from the printout of errors was challenging and required many hours. But I certainly learned a lot about computer logic during those days.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Dec 4, 2020)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

> Notice the absence of CRT displays or PC keyboards. Today's generation would be as lost in that room as if they walked into an alien spaceship. Writing software on punch cards and troubleshooting your program from the printout of errors was challenging and required many hours. But I certainly learned a lot about computer logic during those days.



The operators console has a keyboard, but it's not visible in that picture. Output was the teletype next to the woman on the right. The oscilloscop was for monitoring up to 1000 memory locations. Per Wikipedia :

_"The operators console had three columns of decimal coded switches that allowed any of the 1000 memory locations to be displayed on the oscilloscope. Since the mercury delay line memory stored bits in a serial format, a programmer or operator could monitor any memory location continuously and with sufficient patience, decode its contents as displayed on the scope."_

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Dec 4, 2020)

----------


## jdurand

Way back in the 1970s head guy walked into the computer room, I was sitting in front of the ASR-33 punching a program onto paper tape. He looked at it and said "WOW, THAT'S FAST!!!"

Almost had a fist fight, we'd been working since the previous day..most of the time waiting for that "fast" machine.

A note from back then, the optional cup-holder that mounted on the upper right of the ASR-33 was right over the hot power supply so it was better for coffee rather than beer...err...soda.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Dec 4, 2020)

----------


## Scotsman Hosie

When I was a computer (Data Systems) Tech — late '60's, aboard the USS Ranger (CVA-61), in the IOIC/flight ops _secured space_, of the Operations Dept — the lead-lined, 642-alpha and bravo Univacs we worked on, were 7' tall, 5' wide, x3' deep. Chill-water cooled, with 30-bit registers, and hard-wired, iron-core matrix memories (one each). They clocked in _mega-cycles!_ And the _bravo_ was a computer assisted, _'cleaned-up'_ version of the _alpha_ — mainly to do with redundant memory addressing logic — _and could do square roots._ (can you imagine!)

----------

jackhoying (Dec 5, 2020)

----------


## mklotz

One thing computers do really well is iterating a simple arithmetic equation very fast. I don't know how it's done today but on at least one of the early breadboard computers I encountered capitalized on this by computing roots using Heron's method.

Heron's method for finding square roots is elegant and requires nothing more than the four basic arithmetic operations.

If x is less than the square root of N then N/x is greater than the square root so the average of the two will be closer to the true root. This leads to the iterative equation...

x[n+1] = (x[n] + N / x[n]) / 2

With even a poor starting guess of x[1] this will converge to the square root in a few iterations.

An example will demonstrate. Let's find the square root of 6 (for reference, my calculator says 2.44949). Six is between 4 (2 squared) and 9 (3 squared) so a reasonable guess for x1 might be 2.5. Then

x2 = (2.5 + 6/2.5)/2 = 2.45 (squared = 6.00250)

Very close but let's do one more iteration...

x3 = (2.45 + 6/2.45)/2 = 2.44949 (squared = 6.00000026)

which would be good enough for most purposes.

I can hear you saying, "Yeah, but you picked an initial guess that was very close to the actual value!" A valid objection so let's try it with an initial guess that's downright silly, 7. Remember, 7 squared is 49, and that's far enough from 6 that even a schoolkid would know it's not a good choice. In addition, the square root of a number can never be greater than the number so, since 7 is greater than 6, choosing it as a first guess is particularly dumb.

x2 = (7 + 6/7)/2 = 3.9286 (squared = 15.4339)

x3 = (3.9286 +6/3.9286)/2 = 2.7279 (squared = 7.4414)

x4 = (2.7279 + 6/2.7279)/2 = 2.4637 (squared = 6.0698)

x5 = (2.4637 + 6/2.4637)/2 = 2.4495 (squared = 6.00005)

close enough for the work I do. So, even with a laughable initial guess we got five significant figures in only four iterations. Clearly, one doesn't need to be a genius mathematician to make useful guesses.

----------

jdurand (Dec 5, 2020),

jimfols (Dec 5, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Dec 5, 2020),

volodar (Dec 5, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

you guys make my head hurt.. all my roots are round...well sort of round, not many n's or x's and a pain in the butt to dig up. I will say 1 additional thing.my pies are round. cakes go either way round square oblong, rectangle tangle and eaten up.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Dec 5, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 13, 2020)

----------


## jdurand

> One thing computers do really well is iterating a simple arithmetic equation very fast. I don't know how it's done today but on at least one of the early breadboard computers I encountered capitalized on this by computing roots using Heron's method.
> 
> Heron's method for finding square roots is elegant and requires nothing more than the four basic arithmetic operations.
> 
> If x is less than the square root of N then N/x is greater than the square root so the average of the two will be closer to the true root. This leads to the iterative equation...
> 
> x[n+1] = (x[n] + N / x[n]) / 2
> 
> With even a poor starting guess of x[1] this will converge to the square root in a few iterations.
> ...




That doesn't even require dividing by 2, that's just shift right by 1 bit so single cycle or free depending on your machine architecture.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Dec 5, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Workers reconditioning a 12,000 ton press. Carnegie-Illinois Steel Corporation. Homestead, PA 1944.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jackhoying (Dec 16, 2020),

jimfols (Dec 13, 2020),

marksbug (Dec 13, 2020),

nova_robotics (Dec 19, 2020)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Workers reconditioning a 12,000 ton press. Carnegie-Illinois Steel Corporation. Homestead, PA 1944.



Not just reconditioning, might have been from wear or periodic maintenance, but neither beginning or wrap-up of job. Note date of picture; how much work passed through it, especially prior 5 some odd years? Imagine the plant capacity, diverting to other lines, with war production full tilt before shutting this one down for work. A safe bet is steel from this plant had been transported for use in every Allied country.
If I've said it once; THAT is manufacturing, THAT is what generates a real economy.

----------

baja (Dec 14, 2020),

IntheGroove (Dec 13, 2020)

----------


## skibo

Like I have said several times, "check out the hats that everyone is wearing and not a hard hat in the house!

----------


## old_toolmaker

I agree totally!

----------


## jackhoying

I looks like they are starting to disassemble a temporary rail track that was used to move in, or move out a big casting that needs replaced or repaired. The track base is built up with wooden sleepers and then I-beam sleepers, probably to raise the tracks high enough to clear existing tracks?

----------


## marksbug

perhaps those are custom hard hats..that look like reg hats...like the bronze dipped shews..or the osha guy dosent come till saturday.

----------


## Jon

Pig bed workers at the Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation.




> Pig bed made up ready to receive molten iron. Molten iron from the main runner flows at right angles into a smaller trough known was the sow. From the sow the molten iron flows into the individual molds known as Pigs. Hence, the term: Pig Iron.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## hemmjo

Those 5 men standing there in short sleeved shirts, regular shoes and no hard hats are the kind of "IRON" men than built this country. (Insert any country name there)

----------


## 12bolts

The writing above the furnace hearth door. "Pirigo"sp (Danger?) "Lentida" sp (Slow?) from Portuguese. Pretty obscure for a warning sign

----------


## marksbug

hmm...so...if they were pouring some bell shaped stuff they would be pouring cowbells!!!

----------


## Jon

Workers making a 70-ton waterwheel shaft. Carnegie-Illinois Steel Corporation. Homestead, PA. 1945.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

marksbug (Dec 27, 2020),

nova_robotics (Dec 28, 2020)

----------


## marksbug

heck just watching them make the steel for that would be awesome. it's truly amazing what we used to be abler to make before we had the 9002iso&whatnot bs qc came about.witch is like the carfox...used for selling nothing more.

----------


## IntheGroove

There's a good chance that was made for the Shasta Dam...

----------

marksbug (Dec 27, 2020)

----------


## hemmjo

> heck just watching them make the steel for that would be awesome. it's truly amazing what we used to be abler to make before we had the 9002iso&whatnot bs qc came about.witch is like the carfox...used for selling nothing more.



I totally agree. I often wonder how they managed to make such amazing HUGE stuff, "back in the day".

This quote is often brought to mind!!! 

Hard times create strong men. 
Strong men create good times. 
Good times create weak men. 
And, weak men create hard times.
― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain

----------

baja (Dec 29, 2020),

marksbug (Dec 27, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Laboratory employees at the Columbia-Southern Chemical Corporation. Corpus-Christi, Texas. 1951.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## marksbug

bull in a china shop....I better stay out of there.

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

> The writing above the furnace hearth door. "Pirigo"sp (Danger?) "Lentida" sp (Slow?) from Portuguese. Pretty obscure for a warning sign



Or "Perigo Dirida" "Danger directed" or roughly, you are required or directed to be careful. Still pretty obscure...

----------


## hemmjo

In regard to the warning sign on the Iron Furnace Door. I am thinking if you are close enough to read that sign, and you do not ALREADY KNOW that you need to be careful. No amount of signage, will save someone from their own stupid self.

----------

marksbug (Jan 4, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

oh so true.

----------


## NeiljohnUK

> Laboratory employees at the Columbia-Southern Chemical Corporation. Corpus-Christi, Texas. 1951.



Posed photo? With jewellery, lack of gloves and eye protection, especially with Perchloric Acid and other interesting chemicals on the bench.

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

> Laboratory employees at the Columbia-Southern Chemical Corporation. Corpus-Christi, Texas. 1951.



And there's Rosie O'Donnel in the back staring straight at the camera as usual!  :Lol:

----------


## marksbug

:Clapping:  :Angry:  :Sweating:  :Head Scratch:  :Smash:  :Gunfire:  :Soapbox:

----------


## Jon

Machining a steel wheel at Wheel and Axle Division of the Carnegie-Illinois Steel Corporation. McKees Rocks, PA. January 1963.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Ralphxyz

#2951 Looks more like a shaft than a wheel.

Ralph

----------


## Jon

> #2951 Looks more like a shaft than a wheel.
> 
> Ralph



Agreed, it's a little confusing. Source is here: https://historicpittsburgh.org/islan...A943.163004.GN . They do list "Axle Forging" as a title, but then they call it a wheel in the description, and mention a process of slicing wheel blocks from steel rounds.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Agreed, it's a little confusing. Source is here: https://historicpittsburgh.org/islan...A943.163004.GN . They do list "Axle Forging" as a title, but then they call it a wheel in the description, and mention a process of slicing wheel blocks from steel rounds.



If not obvious, industrial and mechanical terminology is a favorite 'tool' of mine. When terms are misapplied, it gets me all wound up. However; from only info here, [HMT.net] entirely possible the stock is being worked into a wheel, just a smaller diameter that 'wheel' means to us. Like wheels for heat treat oven carts, mine shafts, elevators, who knows. 
Now, substitution from photo note to description is just bad proof reading. 
I'd make another stab at cable TV "How It's Made", or a 'word' program illiterate of terms critical to making and using it.........So many things have turned into branches of the 'Millennial Anti-Theft Devices' tree.
Or roots.

----------


## marksbug

well....it's round...so ...it's a wheel.

----------


## marksbug

so...witch came first...the machine or the machine to make the machine...that makes the machine. :Hat Tip:  truly hand made. each step is a advancement to the netxt step and a better first step.and a lot of hard hot heavy work.and some thinking too.just think of what could Leonardo could of done with todays machines/computers to make his brain's ideas all come to life.

----------

mcthistle007 (Jan 11, 2021)

----------


## mcthistle007

Yes,Definitely a Shaft,I don't like it or my Brain does'nt like it when it's Trying to turn a shaft into a wheel when its a Shaft and not a wheel! :Hat Tip:

----------

marksbug (Jan 12, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

isant a shaft just a long wheel...and that one look to be bigger than many wheels we see every day.I think it's all in the terminology. there are skinny wheels and wide wheels.long sfats and short shafts.big shafts and small shafts. shafts are normally longer than wheels but not necessarily.wheels are usualy taller than shafts...but not always. shafts can be used between 2 wheels..but not always....and both shafts and wheels can roll but not always.....wheels and shafts can also be flat..but hopefuly not unless there supposed to be. and eggs were made to either be cooked, hatched or thrown.oops yes the eggs do get laid. but did the chicken? probably not...but...it had to of gotten laid.as it was in the egg..and oh so tasty either way.

----------

mcthistle007 (Jan 12, 2021)

----------


## Unkle Fuzzy

Looks to me like they are forging a pig into a specific size, probably to shear off a slug, to be forged into a wheel.

Make sense?

Note the Go-NoGo gauges laying at his feet.

----------


## hemmjo

Wheels(tires) are just cylinders with various ratios of height to width. Just a few examples. Not sure why that last one attached that way??

----------

marksbug (Jan 12, 2021),

suther51 (Jan 17, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 12, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

LOL!
Took 60+ years to raise the question; what held Mr. Flintstone's rear axle in place? Come to think of it, how'd it steer?

----------

toeless joe (Jan 18, 2021)

----------


## IntheGroove

Some wheels are screwed...

----------


## Jon

Shepherds wear stilts (tchangues) to navigate marshy ground. Gascony, France. Circa 1895.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## marksbug

looks like tri pods to keep out of the bugs&stickers/weeds/poop. i kinda doubt you can traverse mussy ground on stilts.

----------

neilbourjaily (Jan 18, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 17, 2021)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

The third stick is their Shepherds crook, and yes they did walk on them https://mashable.com/2016/08/13/stilt-shepherds-landes/

----------


## mcthistle007

Wow oh wow! There has to be a Good Reason for this. "How's ya new job going mate? Er I'm climbing the Ladder pretty quickly!" My Stilts are Bigger than yours! Get a job in a Circus later on.

----------


## Toolmaker51

What I see is not a lot of sheep watching going on........

----------

jackhoying (Jan 18, 2021),

marksbug (Jan 17, 2021)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

I didn't know Marty Feldman got his start as a shepherd! (Far left guy). Maybe that guys name is Abby Normal?

----------

mwmkravchenko (Jan 18, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

that would be abby normal.possibly the abby normal weekley meating.

----------


## Duke_of_URL

"Those Joneses... they think they're so much higher than everyone else."

----------


## Jon

Beer barrel welding department. Alcoa's New Kensington Works. May, 1947.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg

----------

jackhoying (Jan 25, 2021)

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

One of the most important industries!

----------


## marksbug

yes, many neet gas tanks were made with those. as for the beer...pour it down the drain.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> One of the most important industries!






> yes, many neet gas tanks were made with those. as for the beer...pour it down the drain.



Either way, by 1947, a LOT less aluminum was needed by aircraft industry. As for "down the drain" part, that happens either way. 
Science fact, beer isn't bought, just rented.

----------

TheElderBrother (Jan 26, 2021)

----------


## Moby Duck

Interesting that they still made these early barrels, barrel shaped. The only reason I can see for this is to hold less beer. Air receivers and modern stainless beer barrels have parallel sides and they are much easier to roll and carry.

----------


## Moby Duck

[QUOTE=Toolmaker51;
Science fact, beer isn't bought, just rented.[/QUOTE]

I generally only do short term rental of mine, usually around 30 minutes and I get rid if it.

----------


## mklotz

> Interesting that they still made these early barrels, barrel shaped. The only reason I can see for this is to hold less beer. Air receivers and modern stainless beer barrels have parallel sides and they are much easier to roll and carry.



The traditional barrel shape has some mechanical advantages...

If rolling one on a flat surface it's easy to change the direction of motion since the barrel contacts the ground in only a single circle. OTOH, a cylinder will want to continue rolling in the same direction.

A barrel will self center its rolling on two rails whereas a cylinder will not. In olden days it was typical to unload trucks, ships, etc. by arranging two rods or planks as "rails" and rolling the barrels down the rails. Cylinders would have fallen off the rails.

These advantages must have been important since constructing a barrel is more difficult than making a cylinder and barrel shapes do not pack as tightly as rectangular containers.

In the modern world, the second advantage is moot. Palletizing, fork lifts, and other mechanized handling equipment have minimized direct handling.

Whether the shape is preserved because of the first advantage or simply because of the public perception that beer should be in barrel-shaped containers is hard to know.

----------

Moby Duck (Jan 25, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 25, 2021)

----------


## Jon

IntheGroove's keg slide post moved to its own thread in the Homemade Tools subforum here: Keg slide

----------


## marksbug

they are barrels because they are barrel shaped...if they were cylinder shaped they wood beee cylinders of beer...there I hope this exsplains it.no?? good thing they are called kegs. whisky comes in barrels...and bottles...and glasses.

----------

Moby Duck (Jan 25, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> IntheGroove's keg slide post moved to its own thread in the Homemade Tools subforum here: Keg slide



......and cute blonde chauffeur moved along with it.

----------

IntheGroove (Jan 25, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Worker cuts compressed air glass cylinders with the hot wire method, which preceded the Pennvernon process. Pittsburgh Plate Glass Company (PPG). 1925.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...d_fullsize.jpg

----------

marksbug (Jan 31, 2021),

nova_robotics (Feb 1, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

now thats pretty neet

----------


## Ralphxyz

How does that work? Is that the power lines overhead?

Ralph

----------


## Toolmaker51

Had to dive in......Plenty o' info here. 
https://www.google.com/search?client...+glass+cutting

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

They must be good at their job. Only a few small pieces of glass on teh floor!

----------


## Toolmaker51

> They must be good at their job. Only a few small pieces of glass on teh floor!



That is what made look. Wanted to see what the starting and terminal end looked like; extent of the remnants. Didn't find so much as a description.

----------


## Jon

Working on inflatable rubber boats at the Goodyear Tire and Rubber Plant. California, 1943.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

marksbug (Feb 7, 2021),

volodar (Feb 9, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Millennials don't get to say "_Hey! There's MY Mom!_", and likely unaware maybe Grandmother instead. 

Mine, occupied otherwise;


In fairness, her forte before this was NOT a war plant, or production of any kind. After sewing her fingers together making Lipton Tea bags........but a terrific Marine photographer! They addressed her as Babe, never mere babe.

----------


## mklotz

Those inflatable rubber "boats" look a lot like the pontoons used during the war to temporarily bridge rivers. Wikipedia has a good article on pontoon bridges...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontoon_bridge

I copied a couple of pictures from that article to show the resemblence to the rubber "boats"

----------

baja (Feb 9, 2021),

Jon (Feb 7, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 7, 2021),

volodar (Feb 9, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

you could get a little dingy when they started gluing the dingys...

----------


## Toolmaker51

Good ol' Wikipedia; quite an article to be sure.
Good eye Mr. K. Only difference is oddly placed. 
The assembly line inflatables have a flat bow; upswept in the bridge pics. 
But atop 6x6 troop trucks, probably Army Combat Engineers en route to build one, flat again.

Probable MkI-MkII thing, no question usable either way.

----------


## marksbug

with weight I would execpt the ends to be upswept some.

----------


## Toolmaker51

Bridge pontoons I'd guess are forerunners of RIB [rigid inflatable boat] hulls, in this case with flat hard decking. A true bow necessitates more involved cutting, gusseting and assembly, not critical to that use. 
Those up-swept boat sections [known as sheer] seen in bridge pic are built in.

----------


## marksbug

Ive been around lost of different inflatables. before working at marina for years and after also, my wife sells them...among other marine associated stuff.

----------


## Jon

Winding room at the Nuremberg Siemens factory. 1910.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...m_fullsize.jpg

----------

olderdan (Feb 14, 2021)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

The two women on the right look like they're quite content with their situations. I'm also surprised to see no one smoking here? Is there a safety reason they would have prohibited smoking in a winding operation like this? Other than the photo op.

----------


## volodar

smokers spoil any photograph.

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

> smokers spoil any photograph.



Agreed by today's thinking, however this photo was taken in 1910. Then it would not have been out of the ordinary, unless one of the women was smoking!

----------


## hemmjo

Didn't they use lacquer to seal and lock armature windings? if not lacquer, I would still bet whatever it was would be flammable.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Feb 15, 2021)

----------


## volodar

> Didn't they use lacquer to seal and lock armature windings? if not lacquer, I would still bet whatever it was would be flammable.



we´ve lived on southern vancouver island for thirty three years. cedar house, cedar siding, cedar decks. continually fired airtight woodstove all winter. all flammable. lots of motors with flammable lacquer wingdings. never a problem. what´s the big deal??

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

I though it was a resin sealer?

----------


## hemmjo

> snip... lots of motors with flammable lacquer wingdings. never a problem. what´s the big deal??



There is a big difference between liquid lacquer, with all of the associated volatile solvents, and the dried film left behind after it drys.

I am certainly not an expert on the topic of why they were not smoking in the Nuremberg Siemens factory in 1910, I was simply posing a possibility for discussion.

----------


## fool injector

A U-boat motor armature right foreground?

----------


## jdurand

How about it's a long exposure picture, smoke would be blurred and funny looking

----------

Toolmaker51 (Feb 15, 2021)

----------


## skibo

I worked in an electric motor rewinding shop for about a year as a grunt and most times, motor delivery. We couldn't smoke in the shop at all. We had to go outside to smoke and the boss would come out and tell use to get back to work or be fired. BUT, guess who would come around the shop with a pipe in their mouth, the shop air was filled with strong odors of lacquers at times! That was different!

----------


## Jon

Workers at Aircraft Engine Research Laboratory. Cleveland, Ohio, 1944.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...5_fullsize.jpg

----------

Rangi (Feb 23, 2021)

----------


## IntheGroove

Working with liquids with no protection whatsoever...

----------

marksbug (Feb 21, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

my wife got 6 kids by doing that..... :Clapping:  :Hat Tip:  :Banana Dance:  :Rimshot:

----------

volodar (Mar 1, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

marksbug is on a roll today......

In other news, good read on the Aircraft Engine Research Facility.
_On January 23, 1941, ground was broken in Cleveland, Ohio, to create the facility now known as The NASA Glenn Research Center at Lewis Field (GRC). In 1943, at the dedication ceremony for the Center, Dr. George W. Lewis, NACA Director of Aeronautical Research, provided this prophecy: "There is no doubt as to the excellent quality of results that will flow from this laboratory." The accuracy of his prediction has been born out in the research done at GRC from its earliest days to the present._ 
Lots of google hits, but offering his one; https://history.nasa.gov/centerhistories/glenn.htm

----------

Rangi (Feb 23, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

and ....she is from ohio.

----------


## Jon

International Harvester employees inspect ball bearings. Chicago, IL. 1943.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Mar 2, 2021),

clydeman (Mar 6, 2021),

jimfols (Feb 28, 2021),

mklotz (Feb 28, 2021),

nova_robotics (Mar 1, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 7, 2021),

volodar (Mar 1, 2021)

----------


## mklotz

Love the WWII faux military covers with the IHC symbol in place of the eagle. What a clever way to boost morale by showing the workers that they were fighting the war just as much as the enlisted men (with less risk, of course).

----------


## marksbug

MOM!! IS THAT YOU!!!

----------


## skibo

I love pictures of the people from the 30s to the 50s, The Men looked like Men and Women looked like ladies when they were both at work! I don't know why, but maybe the clothing that show's pride and care of the person's appearance, even at work! Today's young people are really strange, and screwed up, trying to mold the too sex's into one sex! What" with the young men and their Twat Knots and skinny jeans and being girlie like along with women looking masculine ! I guess this old man of only a couple months from 70 years old, doesn't much like what He sees in our youth now today, It worry's me!

----------


## marksbug

hmm...one sex? now thats handy!!! :ROFL:

----------

volodar (Mar 1, 2021)

----------


## neilbourjaily

It all goes back to Upspeak, skibo. Directness in ones speech is considered too aggressive.

----------


## TrickieDickie

I am right behind ya pal. What would have our parents and grandparents thought of today's behavior. Who could have dreamed up the world we live in today.

----------


## jdurand

Actually, WE dreamed up today's world...the kids are working on the next. My wife and I are looking forward to all the kids waiting for us to teach them business, computers, and shop skills.

----------

volodar (Mar 1, 2021)

----------


## Jon

USS _Wyoming_ captain with press and radio women in 1941.




> View taken in late 1941, showing Captain Van Leer Kirkman, USN (center), with unidentified press and radio women, at Norfolk, Virginia. Note splinter padding on bridges; range-finder positions; life rafts on turret. Guns are 12".



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Mar 9, 2021),

jimfols (Mar 7, 2021),

nova_robotics (Mar 8, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

the good ship lolly poppers!!!!

----------


## IntheGroove

What is the timer for?

----------


## Jon

Chemical laboratory workers. Brunner Mond & Co. Ltd. Manchester, England. 1918.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Toolmaker51

They are so wistful; I imagine them pondering what lab work would be like without glassware?

----------


## Ralphxyz

Is the one in white on her cell phone? Everyone wants to hear what is being said.

Ralph

----------


## IntheGroove

They just asked her how to make a Rosewater Rickey...

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Is the one in white on her cell phone? Everyone wants to hear what is being said.
> 
> Ralph



No, that would be in a biological lab.........

----------


## Toolmaker51

> They just asked her how to make a Rosewater Rickey...



Well, of course. It doesn't populate automatically in a google search!

----------


## IntheGroove

I'm pretty sure you need a chemist to make a Rosewater Rickey...

----------


## 12bolts

> They are so wistful; I imagine them pondering what lab work would be like without glassware?



Messy?

Phil

----------


## marksbug

" so do we saute the onions or caramelize them? or just reduce them?" hold on Im reading!!! "cooking class for the clueless."

----------


## DIYSwede

Sorry for interrupting all the fun here:
This lab wasn't all-female just for being exceptionally progressive, offering "equal opportunities for ladies" - 
there was a big, bloody war going on right then.

"WWI Brunner Mond modified several of their plants in order to produce *ammonium nitrate* for munitions.
As well as *purifying TNT* for government use, the firm provided *synthetic phenol* for conversion to the alternative explosive, *picric acid*."

From: https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Brunner,_Mond_and_Co

----------


## marksbug

no reason to be sorry. were always up for some real info. if this was a modern photo my comment would be about right.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

> Sorry for interrupting all the fun here:
> This lab wasn't all-female just for being exceptionally progressive, offering "equal opportunities for ladies" - 
> there was a big, bloody war going on right then.
> 
> "WWI Brunner Mond modified several of their plants in order to produce *ammonium nitrate* for munitions.
> As well as *purifying TNT* for government use, the firm provided *synthetic phenol* for conversion to the alternative explosive, *picric acid*."
> 
> From: https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Brunner,_Mond_and_Co



Oh what _fun!_ Not a place I'd like to work!

(Once upon a time, long ago I was helping to clear out and clean up a long-time toxicology professor's lab a few years after he'd retired, and in one of the chemical cabinets we came across a large glass jar of picric acid that over the years had picked up moisture and recrystallized all over the inside of the jar and up around the lid. 

We evacuated the building and called in the bomb squad for that one! There was probably 1-1.5 kilos of it in the jar. )

----------

marksbug (Mar 17, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> What is the timer for?



By timer, I believe you refer to the clock looking device high up the mast. That's a range to target signal, aka shot clock or concentration dial, aiding other ships in formation. By observing and comparison, elevation could be regulated somewhat better. Each ship made own corrections for direction, wind and surface speed. More at https://hoover.blogs.archives.gov/20...-like-a-clock/
Disappointed same phrase didn't appear in wikipedia

----------

baja (Mar 23, 2021),

IntheGroove (Mar 16, 2021),

Jon (Mar 17, 2021),

marksbug (Mar 17, 2021),

mklotz (Mar 17, 2021)

----------


## mcthistle007

Hello bruce.desertrat, They certainly would've been Very Serious & Brain Squirming Times Indeed,not like looking @ your smartphone to see if the battery was getting low or if you had a message from Shakespeare. Tell us what could have happenned with that jar of "PICRIC ACID" if things went Pear shaped? Those pictures maybe tell more than a Thousand words.Makes me laugh when I compare the different times and what people "HAD" to go thru with not much choice! Will the pendulum swing the other way,one day?This website is The Best Value ever!

----------

baja (Mar 23, 2021),

jimfols (Mar 17, 2021),

marksbug (Mar 17, 2021)

----------


## mklotz

> By timer, I believe you refer to the clock looking device high up the mast. That's a range to target signal, aka shot clock or concentration dial, aiding other ships in formation. By observing and comparison, elevation could be regulated somewhat better. Each ship made own corrections for direction, wind and surface speed. More at https://hoover.blogs.archives.gov/20...-like-a-clock/
> Disappointed same phrase didn't appear in wikipedia



Fascinating. Thanks for providing me today's "learned something today" cookie.

----------

baja (Mar 23, 2021),

marksbug (Mar 17, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 17, 2021)

----------


## Philip Davies

> Oh what _fun!_ Not a place I'd like to work!
> 
> (Once upon a time, long ago I was helping to clear out and clean up a long-time toxicology professor's lab a few years after he'd retired, and in one of the chemical cabinets we came across a large glass jar of picric acid that over the years had picked up moisture and recrystallized all over the inside of the jar and up around the lid. 
> 
> We evacuated the building and called in the bomb squad for that one! There was probably 1-1.5 kilos of it in the jar. )



Just as well that you recognised the hazard! How many general clearance workers would?

----------


## Jon

Pennsylvania Rubber Company workers. Jeanette, Pennsylvania. 1947.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

Those rollers look pretty dangerous without safety devices to keep hands out.

----------


## Toolmaker51

I believe that is how certain compounds are mixed, a similar but larger machine was in our plant. Not unlike kneading bread dough. Rolls were heated, a little spray of water kept it from sticking. I suppose the rollers could be considered a hazard, but they turn slowly.
Ultimately, the real hazard; inattentive operators.

----------


## marksbug

oh I see...so there not making condoms.... :Head Scratch:

----------


## neilbourjaily

Sleeves rolled up, good. Neck tie, good for the boss...

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Thinking that's a research or QC lab based on the scale on the bench, guys better not get those ties anywhere near those rollers! Reminds me a lot of the QC lab I used to work in, the windows looked out onto the production floor.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Chemical laboratory workers. Brunner Mond & Co. Ltd. Manchester, England. 1918.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg



We are writing a song! 
It goes like this; aminobiphenyl, hexachlorobenzene, dimethyl sulfate, chloromethyl methylether, tetrachlorodibenzo-para-dioxin, carbon disulfide, dibromochloropane, cholorinated benzenes, nitropropane, pentrochlorophenol, benzotricholoride, strontium chromate, dibromo, chloropropane, aminobiphenyl, hexachlorobenzene.....

They had it finished by 1989. 
Really!

----------

bruce.desertrat (Mar 22, 2021)

----------


## mcthistle007

Well those Rollers would have to turn Inwards where they would'nt Question what Went in there.I can't see any Warning Signs or Emergency Shutdown Buttons "ESDs" If you had an operator who got a bit Scatterbrained especially after a "Broken Hearted Love Affair" Yuck!!! Tere would have been some Nasty Incidents "Safety Is Number One !

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

We used to have a Ball Band factory here (in Mishawaka, IN). My mom used to go down to their Wholesale" shop and get all 4 of us boys Red Ball Jets, high top tennis shoes. They sold the "defective" shoes there for next to nothing. 


Later it became Uniroyal and they made all kinds of very stinky rubber products like car floor mats, shoe soles, tire compounds etc. In 2000 it was imploded as the start of a beautification project to include a new, modern park, small shops and a now brewery in honor of both Ball Band and the old Camm Shellinger brewery just West of the factory. I know what a lot of the workers from Ball Band did on break!


If you stand in just the right place at this memorial, it places the sculpture of the factory exactly where it stood before it's demolition. It's actually a pretty cool idea!. Uniroyal expanded the factory to the other side of the main street bridge. (seen on left side of the memorial). Of course, they were also singled out as the largest polluter of the St Joe river! Couldn't eat fish out of there for 20 years! now you can pull 30 lb steelhead out of there thanks to installation of fish ladders and a newer hatchery up river.

----------

baja (Mar 23, 2021),

bruce.desertrat (Mar 22, 2021),

jimfols (Mar 22, 2021),

Jon (Mar 22, 2021)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

> We are writing a song! 
> It goes like this; aminobiphenyl, hexachlorobenzene, dimethyl sulfate, chloromethyl methylether, tetrachlorodibenzo-para-dioxin, carbon disulfide, dibromochloropane, cholorinated benzenes, nitropropane, pentrochlorophenol, benzotricholoride, strontium chromate, dibromo, chloropropane, aminobiphenyl, hexachlorobenzene.....
> 
> They had it finished by 1989. 
> Really!



I think they helped Tom out with it!

----------

Toolmaker51 (Mar 28, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Aircraft Engine Research Laboratory workers. Cleveland, Ohio. June, 1944.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Mar 28, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I think they helped Tom out with it!



Terrific, 'course I like off kilter stuff anyway. Howled at the drawn out 'heard of at Havaardd - not been discovaard" gag.
The one I barely hinted at, far more dire. All while big pharma and noxious polluters skip along.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> We used to have a Ball Band factory here (in Mishawaka, IN). My mom used to go down to their Wholesale" shop and get all 4 of us boys Red Ball Jets, high top tennis shoes. They sold the "defective" shoes there for next to nothing. 
> 
> 
> Later it became Uniroyal and they made all kinds of very stinky rubber products like car floor mats, shoe soles, tire compounds etc. In 2000 it was imploded as the start of a beautification project to include a new, modern park, small shops and a now brewery in honor of both Ball Band and the old Camm Shellinger brewery just West of the factory. I know what a lot of the workers from Ball Band did on break!
> 
> 
> If you stand in just the right place at this memorial, it places the sculpture of the factory exactly where it stood before it's demolition. It's actually a pretty cool idea!. Uniroyal expanded the factory to the other side of the main street bridge. (seen on left side of the memorial). Of course, they were also singled out as the largest polluter of the St Joe river! Couldn't eat fish out of there for 20 years! now you can pull 30 lb steelhead out of there thanks to installation of fish ladders and a newer hatchery up river.



A memorial plaque is appropriate; for a place that housed and fed so many people. 

There remains the front wall of Uniroyal in Los Angeles, a real piece of artwork. While motifs are mixed Assyrian, they portray Byzantine figures primarily, right along 5 (Santa Ana) Freeway, renamed The Citadel. Any drive that I've passed it, maybe 5 years old on, captivated me instant it came into view and turning completely around in my seat as it faded from view. Every time. If I was there right now, I'd still look as much as possible. 
Truly immense, well over 1/4 mile long, it languished 20 years or more, when radial tires became prevalent, impractical to alter production lines suitably. 
To me, best example of inanimate object that flat _radiates_ countless positive emotions, beyond any other. 
Not even Pyramids? Eiffel Tower? Washington Monument? Union Station? Golden Gate Bridge? 
No.
It's reinforcing, whatever succession of property owners; immense building and related property, all the untold costs, saw fit to await a worthy owner with a plan to preserve that irreplaceable glory of a landmark.

Of 542,000 results, clearly a few clueless interpretations, but https://www.google.com/search?q=old+...client=gws-wiz

Update; just read that second groundbreaking, the reuse version, had a distinguished guest and implements. 
_Gretchen Schleicher Davis of Pasadena, CA, the eldest daughter of Adolph Schleicher, wielded the same silver shovel and pick that she used at the groundbreaking 61 years ago, nearly to the day, when the original Samson Tire and Rubber Company plant broke ground, 1929._

Elsewhere, right now morons are destroying significant artifacts. . .

----------

Hoosiersmoker (Mar 29, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Loggers in Tulare County, California. 1892.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Apr 5, 2021),

baja (Apr 6, 2021),

GedB (Apr 6, 2021),

nova_robotics (Apr 11, 2021),

Paul Jones (Apr 7, 2021),

Tonyg (Apr 6, 2021)

----------


## old_toolmaker

Looks as if they were removing cants from the inside out. In those days it was all hand work!

----------


## Toolmaker51

They could, certainly cant anymore...

----------

baja (Apr 6, 2021),

bruce.desertrat (Apr 6, 2021),

marksbug (Apr 4, 2021),

Tonyg (Apr 6, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

I have some old relatives that did this stuff back then in cali....one was a lumber jack champion.I could possibly be related to one of these guys. but I kant tell for sure. Im am for sure awesome at making sawdust so it must run in the family.

----------


## mcthistle007

And they Did it wearing "Their Sunday Best"or normal Civilian clothes.Not a Hi-Vis Jacket in sight! Only the Bear came for a Free Handout @ Smoko!

----------


## Ralphxyz

Was that a hollow tree or did they hollow it out?

Ralph

----------


## IAMSatisfied

I'd love to see the process by which they split those members from the trunk. Judging by the man standing on the left, the section they're working on is at least 12' tall and 16' in diameter... at minimum. It's kinda funny to think of these men as vegetable harvesters, and that homes are made largely of vegetables. And, yes, trees are vegetables, at least from the perspective of termites, wood beetles, woodlice and fungus... and humans.  :Big Grin:

----------


## bruce.desertrat

> And, yes, trees are vegetables, at least from the perspective of termites, wood beetles, woodlice and fungus... and humans.



_"Ever eat a pine tree? Many parts are edible."_  I remember those old Euell Gibbons Grape Nuts commercials from when I was a kid...

----------


## Ralphxyz

The picture was taken to celebrate the bear being shot. I wonder how high they are off the ground?

Ralph

----------


## hemmjo

> _"Ever eat a pine tree? Many parts are edible."_  I remember those old Euell Gibbons Grape Nuts commercials from when I was a kid...



I was thinking Euell always said they have the taste of wild hickory nuts. But I do also recall him talking about pine trees. I have eaten a lot of boxes of them over the years. I tend to stock up on them now, since they are often sold out at the grocery stores in recent months!!

----------


## Unkle Fuzzy

"Grape Nuts, three times more fiber than raw twine....." Comedian in the 1980's

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I'd love to see the process by which they split those members from the trunk. Judging by the man standing on the left, the section they're working on is at least 12' tall and 16' in diameter... at minimum. It's kinda funny to think of these men as vegetable harvesters, and that homes are made largely of vegetables. And, yes, trees are vegetables, at least from the perspective of termites, wood beetles, woodlice and fungus... and humans.



"Why not?" some would ask. 
Recent developments prove, unequivocally, vegetables and creatures alike, assume any identity they want.

----------


## hemmjo

> "Why not?" some would ask. 
> Recent developments prove, unequivocally, vegetables and creatures alike, assume any identity they want.



Why did I not think of that, I could call my dog a cat... then I would not have to buy a license for her every year. On second thought, she would dis-own me if I start calling her a cat, or worse yet it would really confuse her, she might loose her identity.

----------


## Jon

Workers at the Aircraft Engine Research Laboratory. Cleveland, Ohio. 1944.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...0_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Apr 11, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 11, 2021)

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

Neat little horizontal mill!

----------


## TrickieDickie

Imagine the American flag on display in work places today....

----------

jimfols (Apr 11, 2021),

marksbug (Apr 11, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 11, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

I know of one, for sure.

----------

marksbug (Apr 11, 2021)

----------


## gatz

_very_ clean...not a chip in sight
er, wait...there's something on this side of the mill base

----------


## jimfols

> Imagine the American flag on display in work places today....



My flag is outside. People around here understand.

"Red White and Blue outside, guns inside"

----------

IAMSatisfied (Apr 12, 2021),

marksbug (Apr 11, 2021),

neilbourjaily (Apr 18, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 11, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

yup flag hear too. I like the bench/stands under the machines as well as the machines. I offten wonder how many of these machines are in use today in somebody basement. thats what sucks about living in the south...everything was up north. somuch of this old stuff can be bought super cheep many times, but shippen can be a issue weather it be the cost or getting it undammaged. I get my bridge port clone due to it being dammaged when delevered.$400.wasent bad for a bent lead screw machine that I fixed my self (bent outboard of the left side bearing, simple fix)1979 model totaly referbushed,before shipping...ya right, it did have new paint... I reworked a few things and have more to do, but it does just fine for me since I nolonger do any outside work. cost me $125 to get it delevered across town to my house. and the phase converter I had on my smaller mill so..almost plug and play for less the $600 9x49 with 6" riser.and fresh gray paint!!!. ( millport mill)

----------


## Toolmaker51

If possible, I haul myself, usually the case. Yes, south is short on equipment, no better in my area KCMO. 
Everything is Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Ohio tied with Illinois, then Indiana. California was iffy, lots of stuff, but irregular basis. Oddly, next door (Kansas) been luckiest, from Cessna plants. 
Biggest problem is people who unload auction hauls; clueless about listing particulars, like cranes. "It's 2 ton..." OK, overall height, headroom, rail length? How can they not know? I'd like a freestanding 2+ ton jib about 14' long, 12' high or so. I've gained skill using their pix and scaling apparent size. Easier then wringing info from them.

----------

marksbug (Apr 12, 2021)

----------


## Rikk

> Imagine the American flag on display in work places today....



?? I can't think of any of the 4 places I have worked in 30 years that didn't have one? 

Legitimate statement or just trying to stir sh*t????

----------


## TrickieDickie

No not trying to stir up anything. The American flag use to be proudly displayed and these days so many see it as racists. A good friend of mine gave me his fathers burial flag I want to display it but it is huge and it is not going outside to weather, this is a high quality flag. I will figure something out.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Apr 12, 2021)

----------


## hemmjo

> No not trying to stir up anything. The American flag use to be proudly displayed and these days so many see it as racists. A good friend of mine gave me his fathers burial flag I want to display it but it is huge and it is not going outside to weather, this is a high quality flag. I will figure something out.



Fold it properly, and display it folded behind UV resistant glass, like you got for valuable art works. It is after all a valuable, irreplaceable item.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Apr 12, 2021)

----------


## Rikk

> No not trying to stir up anything. The American flag use to be proudly displayed and these days so many see it as racists. A good friend of mine gave me his fathers burial flag I want to display it but it is huge and it is not going outside to weather, this is a high quality flag. I will figure something out.



Sorry, I misunderstood your intentions, I apologize for being short. 

That is quite the honor. I would think if you went to your local VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) or American Legion, they could help you out with a display as well as the proper way to fold the flag. They know the honor of receiving such a gift.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Apr 12, 2021)

----------


## IntheGroove

You can build your own...

----------

neilbourjaily (Apr 18, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 12, 2021)

----------


## TrickieDickie

No issue, Rikk. I can not bare someone thinking I might be a Radical Leftist Democrat. I have two privileges: a mom and dad that loved and raised me and born in the U.S.A. Do not mean this to get political.

----------

Rikk (Apr 13, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Hammer workers. Howard Axle Works. January, 1948.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Javierhm (May 11, 2021),

mwmkravchenko (Apr 28, 2021),

nova_robotics (Apr 19, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 18, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

wow thats totaly awesome. quite a shaver/shaper.

----------

mwmkravchenko (Apr 28, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Hammer workers. Howard Axle Works. January, 1948.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg



Perfect example, validity of planers. 
Until recently, milling that contour be difficult, because spindle and housing needed to support rotating cutter, with corresponding increase of machine size. The upper housing has 3 visible rams, two vertical compounds (swivel) and at least one horizontal, behind man on right. Possibly (likely) other side too. 
Drawback of planers, they required bed and ways longer than table. Today's machines run on rails, called "gantry mills", occupying far less real estate.

----------

mwmkravchenko (Apr 28, 2021)

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

I love planers, but you rarely see one in operation any more. Greatest thing ever for replaning lathe beds before scraping.

----------


## mcthistle007

Can someone please enligten me?What is that piece they are working on and what are they doing to it?

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

[/QUOTE]

----------

hemmjo (Apr 19, 2021)

----------


## hemmjo

That is a massive hunk of material!!! That needs to be a topic in the "What is it" section!!




> Can someone please enligten me?What is that piece they are working on and what are they doing to it?



My early morning smart a** response; That is a BIG hunk of something, they are making it lighter.

----------


## marksbug

well thats gonna be either a big lighter, or...the shavings will be heaver than the little lighter :Lol:  whoo's lighter do you reckon there making?? on the lighter side of things,miss green is trying to get her jolly husband to stop smoking, as he is working the little people to death.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Can someone please enligten me?What is that piece they are working on and what are they doing to it?



Name of company includes 'Axle Works'. I'd guess it's the first operations of a forging die or hammer, but awful large. Too early in the work to identify. The uppermost section has been milled, maybe lugs to register a mating part. Also possible a milling head was mounted for that, switched to single point holder in photo.
What they are doing is contouring the sides, there is a palm sized cutter above mans head. The table, carrying workpiece travels the bedways, past the cutter, shaving off a hunk with each pass. The big chips are visible on floor; obviously a steel type material, not cast iron.
They appear to be tape measuring; I hope other 3' aren't excess material!

----------


## Jon

Workers for the Monongahela Railway Company lay some rails. Pennsylvania, 1940.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Ralphxyz

Looks like the guy on the right is riveting against the guy on the left foot!

Ralph

----------


## hemmjo

More likely that is an impact wrench. Guy to the right down the track install the plates, bolts and nuts. Then these two guys roll along with the impact and tighten the bolts.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Apr 27, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

awe thats just nuts :ROFL:

----------


## Jon

PPG Industries workers manufacturing safety glass for American bombers in WWII. Crystal City, Missouri. 1942.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (May 2, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (May 2, 2021)

----------


## Jon

30" mill work crew. Carnegie Steel Company. August, 1937.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (May 10, 2021),

jimfols (May 9, 2021),

ranald (May 9, 2021)

----------


## Ralphxyz

#2191 Everyone sure has worked up a sweat!

Ralph

----------


## marksbug

proud Americans building america, not tearing it down.

----------

baja (May 16, 2021),

toeless joe (May 10, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (May 9, 2021)

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

That was my impression as well. Grain drills.

----------

marksbug (May 10, 2021),

old_toolmaker (May 16, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Working at the Aircraft Engine Research Laboratory. Cleveland, Ohio, 1944.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...2_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (May 17, 2021),

baja (May 18, 2021),

nova_robotics (May 17, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (May 16, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

mom is that you? all kidding aside most any body can do this work. gender not required.

----------


## Ralphxyz

Turning between centers!

Ralph

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

Not to mention no eye protection, it looks more like a training school. It's pretty clean (few shavings) and no serious machine shop used "lantern tool posts" especially in any kind of production atmosphere. Turning between centers with drive dogs is some pretty basic beginners techniques, though it is still occasionally a useful technique.

----------

old_toolmaker (May 17, 2021)

----------


## old_toolmaker

Actually, turning between centers is one of the most accurate way of turning a shaft on both ends and having all diameters perfectly concentric.

----------

marksbug (May 17, 2021)

----------


## mklotz

No eye protection and a bracelet on each wrist makes me think it's a staged photo. Ah well, at least she has her long hair in a snood.

Many of these war photos of women workers were made to encourage women to join the workforce and, as a result, tried to show that a woman didn't have to sacrifice her femininity while doing a "man's job". They weren't meant to demonstrate proper safety practices.

----------

Toolmaker51 (May 17, 2021)

----------


## Rikk

> No eye protection and a bracelet on each wrist makes me think it's a staged photo. Ah well, at least she has her long hair in a snood.
> 
> Many of these war photos of women workers were made to encourage women to join the workforce and, as a result, tried to show that a woman didn't have to sacrifice her femininity while doing a "man's job". They weren't meant to demonstrate proper safety practices.



I'm pretty sure you are on to something there Marv. The acronym on the bottom of the photo seemed familiar to me. After some searching, I found this. 

"The National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) was the predecessor to The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA)."

----------

Toolmaker51 (May 17, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Not to mention no eye protection, it looks more like a training school. It's pretty clean (few shavings) and no serious machine shop used "lantern tool posts" especially in any kind of production atmosphere. Turning between centers with drive dogs is some pretty basic beginners techniques, though it is still occasionally a useful technique.



The lantern toolpost comment interested me enough to try googling when they were overtaken by QCTP's; even with several re-phrasings couldn't get anything close to an answer. The lantern/ rocker appear in lots of photos certainly later than WWII, but the next step were turret posts on engine lathes. My guess might be QC got rolling along with carbide inserts - still pre CNC.
All things considered, remain a great choice. The undeserved perspective being a hassle, is due just one factor. Few shops spent/ spend time prepping a supply of shims for setting tool height. Turrets are still quickest means to next tool, 4 usually sufficient. They also accept form tools or gang set-ups. 
If I was to sit down and design an ultimate toolpost, wouldn't be QCTP alone; it would be 3 sides of turret and one of Dickson QC. I don't have a lantern anymore but know of shops keeping one around; because still the most compact, and flexible for unusual work, especially the 45° corner relief spec'ed in particular drawings.

Agreeing the photo has opportunistic staging; rolled up sleeves but wearing wristwatch. Between a watch and safety glasses, in my list of preparations the watch is first to go, for sure. 
I do not feel one bit safer with eye protection unless turning brass, bronze or cast iron. My only eye incident ever, while wearing safety glasses and heavy turning with stream of short broken chips. The lens held one still blue hot against my eyelid until I slapped the glasses off, eye nearly fused shut about 10 days.
Later, when Mike Rowe declared "Safety Third" I was already aboard.

----------

marksbug (May 17, 2021)

----------


## old_toolmaker

I am old enough to have personally known two Rosie The Riviters. They are long gone now.
Dick

----------

Toolmaker51 (May 17, 2021)

----------


## TrickieDickie

It saddens me to think the men and women who fought and supported WWII are all but gone. They were trying times dealt with by tough people .

----------

jimfols (May 17, 2021),

marksbug (May 17, 2021),

old_toolmaker (May 17, 2021),

Rikk (May 17, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (May 17, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

eye too, have had 90% of my eye injury's while wearing protection....
as for the QCTP's... Ive not found a china one that you could take off and put back on in the same position.....if I did more I would make my own, but I dont so...it is what it is.
I do have massive respect for those who did this work .

----------

Toolmaker51 (May 17, 2021)

----------


## hemmjo

I was looking for a QCTP but could not justify the cost. That money went for other, more useful accessories. 

I do not use a rocker with my lantern tool post. I use flat shims on the base this makes the set up much more ridged. It is much easier to set up and get you get very accurate repeatability removing and replacing tools. It also does not change the cutting angles on cutters due to rocking the holder to adjust height. I can take it off and put it right back on with the tool at the exact correct height. 

For a lathe used mostly for doing repairs and one of a kind work, I find the lantern tool post is superior to a QCTP for most operations. I wish I had a couple more, if yours is taking up too much room in your shop.

----------

old_toolmaker (May 17, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (May 17, 2021)

----------


## old_toolmaker

I have one QCTP of my own design. It is small for use on a Unimat size lathe. It works very well. It is 1-3/8 square and it has two positions at 90 degrees from one another. The tool holders have dovetails.

----------

Toolmaker51 (May 17, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Work crew with a horizontal single tandem gas blowing engine. Mesta Machine Company.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------


## skibo

What can I say, cool!! There again everyone was wearing some kind of hat!

----------


## 12bolts

> Work crew with a horizontal single tandem gas blowing engine. Mesta Machine Company.



Single Tandem? Bit of a confusing misnomer there?

----------

old_toolmaker (May 24, 2021)

----------


## hemmjo

> Single Tandem? Bit of a confusing misnomer there?




I was thinking the same thing, but then I remembers you can have a trailer with single axle , double axle, triple axle, etc, each with a single tire or dual tires. So that would be single single, single tandem, single triple, dual single, dual tandem, or dual triple. 

That thinking led me to investigate axle configurations, that exposed this study which I found interesting;

Effect of Heavy Multiple Axle Trucks on Flexible Pavement Damage Using In-Service Pavement Performance Data
Hassan K. Salama1; Karim Chatti2; and Richard W. Lyles, P.E.3
Abstract: Truck axle configurations and weights have changed significantly since the AASHO road study was conducted in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Emerging concerns about the effects of new axle configurations on pavement damage, which is unaccounted for in the AASHTO procedure, have prompted several researchers to investigate the impacts of different axle and truck configurations on pavement performance. However, there is still a need to strengthen the mechanistic findings using field data. In this paper, actual in-service traffic and pavement performance data for flexible pavements in the state of Michigan are considered. Monitored truck traffic data for different truck configurations are used to identify their relative damaging effects on flexible pavements in terms of cracking, rutting, and roughness. The analysis included simple, multiple, and stepwise regression. The results indicated that trucks with multiple axles tridem or more appear to produce more rutting damage than those with only single and tandem axles. On the other hand, trucks with single and tandem axles tend to cause more cracking. Pavement roughness results did not show enough evidence to draw a firm conclusion.

http://www.nlcpr.com/DamageMultipleAxle.pdf

----------


## hemmjo

I was wondering what a blowing engine is... found this;

National Museum of Industrial History

Where does the blast for blast furnaces come from? For many furnaces, the blast of air was supplied by blowing engines. This presentation will describe how massive engines once ran around the clock to pump the requisite two tons of air required for every ton of iron produced. We will trace the evolution of air pumping devices associated with blast furnaces and do a deep dive into the Gas Blowing Engine House in Bethlehem, Pa, which is the largest surviving facility of its type in the world.

Found this video. Pretty long to watch but you can fast forward to get an good idea.

----------

Beserkleyboy (May 24, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (May 26, 2021)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Hello, you've been down the rabbit hole today! Good work, mate. I dismissed at first viewing, thinking, 'nah, this is something for the metal guys...', but your digging has brought to the interest of this wood guy...good work...cheers
Jim in South Coast NSW, AUS

----------


## old_toolmaker

That must be Company Brass in the photo. Most if not all wearing suits & ties.

----------


## Unkle Fuzzy

Single cylinder engine with the compressor mounted in tandem on the same piston rod.

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

Not really, if you understood older large engines. It was a single rod on one side of crank with inline double acting cylinders (inline - tandem) . Some tandem steam engines were compound, meaning a smaller primary high pressure cylinder and secondary larger diameter cylinder in line which used the lower pressure exhaust steam from the primary cylinder. 

At the Henry Ford museum in Dearborn, MI, they have one of Ford's 9 "gasteam" engines which he had built to power all the machinery on 250 volts DC at the Highland Park Model T factory. Ford moved it there and more or less built the museum around it. I'd love to have seen the boiler room that fed those engines.

Ford and Thomas Edison were both big promoter of DC in the early years, but fortunately George Armstrong and Nicola Tesla's alternating current won out. 

Those huge engines had steam cylinders on one side of the flywheel (which was a huge generator) one 36 inch diameter (primary high pressure) cylinder then, tandem on the same rod a secondary low pressure cylinder of 72 inches diameter both, of course the same stroke of 72 inches. On the other side they had two double acting 42 inch cylinders in tandem running on coal gas. Once again, 72 inch stroke. The main inline rods were about a foot in diameter past the cross head. They ran on huge sliding shoes between cylinders and at the far end of the cylinders to support the huge weight of the pistons. 
Good videos of it are at: 

.

They claimed the coal gas cylinders were harder to govern so they used the steam side for control. Each engine/generator station was rated 250 volts at, if I remember correctly, 4 megawatts a total power rating of about 6000 horsepower each. My mind might be incorrect on some of the numbers. The Henry Ford is worth a visit just for the steam engines on display. Plan on spending a week there if you're interested in machinery, etc.

I don't understand everything I know about things, grin.

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

I didn't mean to send the photo of the video. I meant to just put the URLs/

Good videos of it are at: 

.

----------


## Toolmaker51

In response to post 2211 of hemmjo and roadway tests. There are rather distinct highway signs a little west of Ottawa, IL mentioning same tests, at least in one locale. Our highway system was influenced upon General Eisenhower first hand, seeing concept in post war Germany. His state of Kansas commemorates him too, certain highways, interchanges and so on.
Our current administration is so uninformed; no clue what infrastructure really means.
I'm no kind of truck driver, yet clock untold miles over eastern Midwest retrieving equipment far away as Michigan, Pennsylvania, Tennessee with little apprehension and lots of appreciation. One habit of every trip includes a little Johnny Cash; [of course; it's me after all] _"I've Been Everywhere"_. 
Who cares, 'Everywhere' is subjective, taking it to be 'everywhere worth going'. This month alone, ~3200 miles, some looking for a spot hidden west of Dallas/ Fort Worth. Not the one south of, lol.......

----------


## marksbug

hmm I west of those places...oops east...well west if you keep going across the pond through okinawa back across the pond and keep going till you hit daytonaor possiably at augstine.. then go west a bit more..then south to the emerald coast...just like the gps will take you, the long way around. I too have lots of miles on the interstates. since the early 60's. now days if im not in a hurry or a good reason to take them I take the back roads so I dont miss america as it once was....of coarse I may be flying to dallas in a few weeks...or austin.not sure yet if when or where...I would drive but not a lot of time to do so....if I take my wife.

----------


## Toolmaker51

I'm widowed now, but she loved those drives too. Always marveling at sheer expanse, her being Austrian born. 
Not much has changed, continuing to not miss America. 
If I keep on, might catch Miss America too! Even little towns have contenders!

----------

hemmjo (May 26, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

thats for sure. keep hitting the road when ever you can. when my wife retires in a few years we plan on doing that too.

----------


## hemmjo

> ..., continuing to not miss ...



The first time I read this message, I was confused by it. I had to read it a couple of times to get it right.

I find language fascinating. The way we learn to string words together to express our thoughts is very much the same as we string tools and operations together to bring an idea into reality. As listeners, we often receive the message incorrectly. 

This is an example of how often words can easily send a message the speaker did not intend. Taken in context, it is clear that you love traveling and seeing all that America has to offer. 

This exact string of words can also express the opposite sentiment. For example, "Since I have retired, I am *continuing to not miss* some of the idiots I worked with"

----------

Toolmaker51 (May 26, 2021)

----------


## NeiljohnUK

> The first time I read this message, I was confused by it. I had to read it a couple of times to get it right.
> 
> This exact string of words can also express the opposite sentiment. For example, "Since I have retired, I am *continuing to not miss* some of the idiots I worked with"



I live in hope of that day (hope springs eternal, and costs bugger all), until then I will continue to refer to myself as a gynaecologist and proctologist, as some of those I have to endure are either C***'s or Arseholes, sometimes both!

----------


## Jon

Marshmallow boxing work crew at the Brock Candy Company. Chattanooga, Tennessee, 1952.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (May 30, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

sweet!!! :Smile:  :Drooling:

----------


## hemmjo

Does the person at the end of that line have to makes sure none of them get past her? 

Reminds me of Lucy and Ethel..

----------


## funforall 69

I see this and I can imagine Lucy ( from I love Lucy show ) standing in the line and stuffing the extras into her mouth like she did on one of her shows...I think in that particular show, it was candy she was stuffing her mouth with. She was such a nut, and always very funny; just like Grace Burns; George Burns's wife.

----------


## TrickieDickie

I remember watching that episode as a kid so long ago

----------


## marksbug

and dont ferget the veeta vita vegemens...... or any of her routines. including how she told Rickey about little rickey. there was never a dull moment.

----------


## Jon

Coal miners. Pennsylvania, 1910.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Jun 7, 2021),

baja (Jun 20, 2021),

carloski (Jun 13, 2021),

jimfols (Jun 6, 2021),

Moby Duck (Jun 7, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 13, 2021)

----------


## hemmjo

How old do you figure those kids are? I am guessing 11-12 and up

----------


## IntheGroove

I would bet some of them fought in WW1...

----------


## skibo

I feel bad for these young kids, on their way to black lung and all all else that's bad in mines. I can't help of visualizing today's younger boys 16 and 24 year old's doing this type of work! They love theor work in their coffee shops! What with their Twat-knot buns on the back of their heads, along with their sissy looking skinny jeans and the little low cut narrow sneaky shoes! That looks so manly like. Not that I would ever have liked doing mining work but if that was all I could have found, well, yes I'd be there till until something else better and safer came along, Like working in the woods cutting down trees. I have done choker setting before and it was a ****ty job, made good money in the mid sixties, in the State of Washington and steep mountains and snow, it sucked!

----------


## marksbug

I see 1 smile.can you spot smiley bob? I worked on a garbage truck as a kid as well as cutting grass. both sucked, and neither paid what it does now days.( late 60's early 70's)

----------


## hemmjo

He is happy he made it out of the darkness..

----------

mcthistle007 (Jun 20, 2021)

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

Child labor, but many of those boys seem to look happy.

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

I was raised understanding that if you want something, you have to work for it so when I was 12 and my parents tried to hand-me-down a bike for the third time and I wanted a new one, I spent the summer working for Pioneer de-tasseling corn. 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week for $5 an hour which was a lot of money then! In a week I bought the new bike and then spent a lot of money on cool modifications from the local bike shop which I rode to myself. It had a generator and front and back lights as well as an actual "D" shaped steering wheel which I disassembled to add the hand brakes. Had a custom seat and changed out the derailleur when I started having problems with it.

When trying to overcome the liberal, entitlement-based education system with my kids, I showed them my Social Security statement showing my first work date and told them when I was born and to do the math to get to the age I started working.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jun 13, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Artillery shell workers at Kokura Arsenal. Fukuoka, Japan, 1943.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I would bet some of them fought in WW1...



With guesses at 10-12 years old, some even less. marksbug asks which is Smiley Bob, closest might be back row about 1/4 of the row from left. 
A few thin-lipped smiles according to eyes, and some say just forlorn, miserable, desperate.

All the same, safe bet the majority served, responding to this,

or this,

maybe this.


Conscription began 1917, May 18th.

----------


## Jon

Bloom clippers. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation. Aliquippa, Pennsylvania. 1940.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Philip Davies (Jun 22, 2021)

----------


## IntheGroove

A pneumatic tool with a half inch or three quarter inch hose is some serious stuff...

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jun 20, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Q: Are We Not Men?
A:_______________

----------


## IntheGroove

I will not answer that without my attorney present...

----------


## mcthistle007

Yes Sir,So We Would Too! When People Complain About Their Lives Now Hmm!

----------


## TrickieDickie

I understand the times, but strangely they have eye protection and the combined noise level must have been deafening

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

> Q: Are We Not Men?
> A:_______________



We Are DEVO

----------

Rikk (Jun 21, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 21, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Correct and LoL, or LoL and correct........not sure. 
No way a couple certain generations look at that picture and not recall DEVO antics. 
Right under noses of the generation "Oh you damn kids, that rock music won't last...."
Right. 
And Mothersbaugh or Elfman didn't make second careers in movie soundtracks.
Oh wait, yes they do, among a few dozen more.

----------


## IntheGroove

It Will Stand...

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jun 21, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

thread hack!!!!
But InTheGroove? I mean if that's not an invitation.....
One list of several I made, is "It's About Music", all kinds of related semi-biographical content from different performers. 
Guess which just got added?
Subscribers to Spotify [and imagine guests] get 25+ hours worth here 
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4t...eebf10f12b4908

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

This is getting pretty far from homemade tools, etc. As are the frequent girl photos, don't you think?

----------

Hoosiersmoker (Jun 22, 2021),

Moby Duck (Jun 22, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Yes, absolutely. But one makes a terrific work atmosphere. 

The others, a distraction, mere clickbait. 

I like my women real........that can change a tire, or a water pump, or fish, or adore frogs and other creatures, or design and build a room addition, or doesn't pose with objects, or write technical procedures, 
tik-tok.....? Pshaw 
Attachment 39881
Tick Tock

----------


## Philip Davies

That cant have been a lotta fun. A simple task, needing little instruction, just as well as theyre stone deaf.

----------


## marksbug

no I dont.

----------


## Jon

79th Air Service Group services guns on a Republic P-47. Duxford, England. September, 1944.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (Jun 29, 2021),

carloski (Jul 4, 2021),

clydeman (Jul 3, 2021),

jimfols (Jun 27, 2021),

nova_robotics (Jul 3, 2021)

----------


## TrickieDickie

That has to be a P47 Thunderbolt

----------


## Toolmaker51

> That has to be a P47 Thunderbolt



4 heavy Brownings yes, but remaining wing looks awful stubby. Then again, P-47's had a HUGE diameter propeller, 13' 1-7/8”
The scene depicts possible origin of very emphatic phrase _".....the whole nine yards"_. Might not be, don't care, that is fine.
Means that to me.

----------


## hemmjo

Guessing the gun barrels are all the same length. Each gun is set a bit further back to allow the ammo to flow past them.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

> Guessing the gun barrels are all the same length. Each gun is set a bit further back to allow the ammo to flow past them.



Yes, also to allow for the guns to be closer and also allows for better cooling. here's a link to a diagram (also shows why the wings looked so stubby...the guns are set quite far out:

https://drawingdatabase.com/wp-conte...14/09/p-47.jpg

And found this image of the guns in place http://www.368thfightergroup.com/images/Browning_1_.jpg

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jun 27, 2021)

----------


## TrickieDickie

I agree Toolmaker but P47 is the only fighter that I can think of that had four 50 cals in each wing. I miss the "Wings" series of American aviation. All we have now is so called reality programing which annoys the crap out of me.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jun 28, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

sometimes reality is crap....for some more crap than others.

----------


## funforall 69

Maybe so, but I love to look at pretty women...............

----------


## marksbug

thats why they make them so pretty...

----------


## skibo

I always liked the name given to the P-47 as the "Flying-Jug!

----------


## TrickieDickie

I think the Brits during WW2 came up with it

----------


## marksbug

I like nice jugs.

----------


## skibo

Especially while flying high!

----------


## Jon

Fort Pitt Brewing Company workers. 1949.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Jul 4, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 9, 2021)

----------


## IntheGroove

No romance in industrial beer production...

----------


## jimfols

Fort Pitt Brewing Company workers. 1949.

There was a time when the guys in my group had guys like these on overtime.  :Smile:

----------


## Toolmaker51

> No romance in industrial beer production...



au contraire, to a degree anyway. 
Visit Anheuser-Busch/ Budweiser Van Nuys CA. We did pipefitting and pump work there. No, not exactly romantic, but the most beautiful factory imaginable. More stainless steel than you could shake a stick at.

----------


## IntheGroove

I did visit Busch Gardens about 50+ years ago...

----------


## Jon

Rivet heaters and passers. Puget Sound Naval Shipyard. Bremerton, Washington, 1919.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Jul 11, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 11, 2021)

----------


## hemmjo

All the men were off to war...

https://www.thoughtco.com/world-war-...%20items...%20

----------

marksbug (Jul 12, 2021)

----------


## 12bolts

Re #2272 
I wonder if the date is correct? 1919 is after the war ended. Would not have expected to see ladies remain in the work force then.

----------


## TrickieDickie

I agree, I thought it was a bit odd women working in a shipyard after the big war.

----------


## marksbug

my grand father worked and died in the ship yard(in cali) during the 2nd war.bad heart from birth ,couldn't go with the rest of the guys, he was a welder..and died there too.heart finaly gave out.37 years old as I recall mom saying.

----------


## Unkle Fuzzy

You also have to remember a Flu pandemic took out a fair number of the workforce not long before that.

----------


## TrickieDickie

I had a great Uncle Rico, Italian, served during WWI in the trenches and he died back in the mid 80's. When I lived in Michigan near him I did not realize he served (I was very young). Wish I had spoken to him of his service. Listening to my other Uncles, Uncle Rico stated it was a horrible bloody mess in the trenches.

----------


## marksbug

my dad was airforce. korea,nam cam boida,etc,all over the place,he trained most of the guys in the 130 that died in the desert during the hostage rescue attempt thing that ended up a big mess because nobody communicated with any body....marines,airforce,army etc add to that a dust storm that took out a helicopter early and no visibility...boom .that hit him hard. he never talked about anything over seas.till about 2 years before he died in 2016. he told me stuff mom didnt know, like he was shot while flying and some other stuff.he was put up for the meddle of honner, but got the distinguished flying cross because " we were never there". he saved a lot of guy's over there. he was probably the best expert on the HC 130 and the variants. he would get calls after he retired from all around the world on how to get this plane in the air, where ever it was, and what ever the issue was, or how to get it down safely as possiable. he was pretty much crap as a father ( he took every over seas gig that cam up, was never around,didnt want us at all.but was good for everybody else in the usa. he hated the navy aviators. so we barried him at the end of the runway at penscola naval air station, so the blue angles can fly over him weekely...( blue angles home base)as well as every other navy aviator.( #1 training base for them). he had flew that plane before the us airforce had them.... and he has signed almost every one of them if not all of them.

----------


## TrickieDickie

I have been to the Pensacola beach and the Navy museum many times. My fave plane there is the F4-U Corsair

----------


## hemmjo

> snip....bad heart from birth ,couldn't go with the rest of the guys, ...






> snip...boom .that hit him hard. he never talked about anything over seas.till about 2 years before he died in 2016. he told me stuff mom didnt know,.....



There is a good reason they say that "War is Hell". It affects everyone, differently, but so deeply. Even those that did did not go are affected. For those that went and made it back, how can they possibly forget the things they saw and HAD to do!!!!. For those too young to have gone, how can they possibly understand the reasons for their loved ones act as they do. Some vets seem to do ok, others, not so much. 

Bad heart kept me out of the mess in Vietnam. I still feel guilty when I remember my friends who went and did not come home, or came home with horrific injuries, both seen and unseen. 

Life is hard, we do the best we can.

----------

mcthistle007 (Jul 13, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 18, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Pipe laying workers in Newton, Massachusetts. 1903.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## hemmjo

I wonder if that old pipe is still in service? SO MUCH of our infrastructure in the US is so old.

----------

mwmkravchenko (Jul 20, 2021)

----------


## IntheGroove

No cave-in protection, that scares me...

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Pipe laying workers in Newton, Massachusetts. 1903.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg



Certain the crowd here will find this simply incredulous; I know misguided citizens that believe public art projects and day-care centers qualify as infrastructure.
I'm forwarding this very picture to each one, with briefest note possible *"INFRASTRUCTURE"*. 
Some will get it by text message, some by email, _some won't get it at all_.

----------

hemmjo (Jul 18, 2021)

----------


## skibo

That's what I call Trench War fare, you against the cave in!

----------


## McDesign

Ah, just run into the pipe - you know that was their plan.

----------


## funforall 69

This was in the days before anyone thought of OSHA. Notice the men wearing BRIMED hats, nothing like a hardhat in sight. Back when these pictures were taken, probably no one had thought of protecting the workers with cave-in trench protectors.

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company roll turning department. 1913.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...2_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Jul 26, 2021),

Duke_of_URL (Jul 26, 2021),

marksbug (Jul 25, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

they had better dirt back then, no cave inns just cave man lodges ...like totally tubular...

----------


## Jon

Construction workers dismantling a buckled improvised crane. Buffalo, NY. 1961.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Aug 1, 2021),

nova_robotics (Aug 2, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 8, 2021)

----------


## jimfols

#2291 

This, from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics:

From 2011 to 2017, the Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries (CFOI) reported 297 total crane-related deaths, an average of 42 per year over this 7-year period

----------

cmarlow (Aug 2, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

not me , no way no how.

----------


## skibo

Woooooooo, No Way!!!

----------


## IntheGroove

You think the guy on the right is mantling or dismantling...

----------


## hemmjo

You really need to know more about statistics before they are of any value. How were they compiled? What is the real reason for the death? Was it indeed the crane's fault? Without more information, the only value of the numbers is ..... well ..... there is no real value in numbers given with no context.

----------


## 12bolts

Yep. Statistics can be used to prove or disprove almost anything depending on how you gather or interpretate the data.

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

I guess it was only important to tether the guy leaning over the edge, the other guy is just standing there ready to watch the other guy when he fall to his death... The boards they laid to get out there tied on with baling wire and the vertical boards supporting those... I want to see the SOP for THAT process!

----------

cmarlow (Aug 2, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

and now for the dis mount!!!splat!!! :Evil:  not quite sure how to score that one....but he did take out a bus load so... bronze it is!!! :Rimshot:

----------


## cmarlow

We have better fall arrest systems now. Those guys were working with just belts instead of harness.

----------


## marksbug

hmm Ive never been arrested in the fall.... just a few more belts of this licker and Ill be able to harness the power to fly!!!!if I dont get arrested first. come to think of it I could use a rest about now..

----------


## neilbourjaily

This is what the kids in the dangerous playground equipment video grow up to do, which by the way looked like a chuck lot of fun..

----------


## cmarlow

> This is what the kids in the dangerous playground equipment video grow up to do, which by the way looked like a chuck lot of fun..



It is that thin line between complete confidence and screaming terror. It takes a special kind of person to do that kind of work. They are not extremely common.

----------


## Moby Duck

He appears to have a safety rope tied off with a giant knot to a scaffold pole to the left of centre in the picture. Rope crosses the planks and disappears behind his right ankle before re-appearing again secured to his belt in the centre of his lower back. Possibly a bit too much rope, but perhaps he plans to land on the edge of the horizontal plank below, and simply walk away.

----------

cmarlow (Aug 8, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Boiler shop workers. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. 1910.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

carloski (Aug 10, 2021),

cmarlow (Aug 8, 2021),

jimfols (Aug 8, 2021),

Ralphxyz (Aug 8, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 8, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Post 2305.....That form of jib crane is new to me; two horizontal beams and trolley rides between them.

----------


## IntheGroove

Looks like limited travel...

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Construction workers *dismantling a buckled improvised* crane. Buffalo, NY. 1961.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg



Can only speculate how that came to be, two operative terms show through. Improvised and buckled fit together more often than not.

----------

cmarlow (Aug 9, 2021)

----------


## IntheGroove

...and being Buffalo, it would be freezing cold...

----------


## NeiljohnUK

If he's lucky, that's why we have shock absorbing lanyards and auto descenders these days, even in a proper harness positional asphyxia and suspension trauma is a real danger, one my in-house 'rescue' team has had to train for at work.

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company managers. Pennsylvania Railroad Tracks at Mesta Station. West Homestead, PA. 1910-1920.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

carloski (Aug 22, 2021)

----------


## IntheGroove

Those lights and standards would sell today...

----------


## McDesign

Bite your tongue! LEDs _are_ the future!

----------


## cmarlow

Yup, and LEd retrofit easily.

----------


## funforall 69

I think you can buy reproductions or something quite similar.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Yep all suits not an honest working man among 'em :-) 

Well, maybe that one guy with a working-man's cap and the bow tie. And the old geezer in the front, but I'll bet he's the original Mr. Mesta...

----------


## IntheGroove

At least the train engineer got in the photo...

----------

cmarlow (Aug 16, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Verrazzano bridge work crew. 1960s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Aug 22, 2021)

----------


## jimfols

The longest suspension bridge in the world until ~1981.
It had a nickname that would not be proper these days.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> The longest suspension bridge in the world until ~1981.
> It had a nickname that would not be proper these days.



Really? What's wrong with the "Very Narrow Zano's Bridge"? PC enough for me.
And the spelling, a second 'z', wasn't corrected until 2018. May have been other search returns, YMMV.

----------

Paul Jones (Aug 28, 2021)

----------


## Nick79

Glad I got to see the enlarged photo. Was not sure what the third and fourth men from bottom were walking on. Since I have an "issue" with heights - this would have been an impossible job for me.

----------


## desbromilow

> Glad I got to see the enlarged photo. Was not sure what the third and fourth men from bottom were walking on. Since I have an "issue" with heights - this would have been an impossible job for me.



looks like cyclone mesh (used for fencing in Australia), but in this case they're using it as dropped objects netting. it would be different to walk on that and see through it, but then the architects get that same effect nowadays with suspended glass walkways.

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

The height and the construction wouldn't bother me but you can keep the snow!

----------


## Jon

> Conversion. Watch cases to war production. They'll be doing war work soon. When the last batch of ladies' compacts is cleaned at a converted Kentucky plant, these girls will use their skill in the production of bomb fuse baffles, compass cases and parts for carbine and machine guns. Wadsworth Watch Company, Louisville, Kentucky.



February, 1942.

----------

jimfols (Aug 29, 2021),

luvmygto (Aug 30, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 29, 2021)

----------


## mansworld

The one who took the photo knew something was not right!

----------


## Toolmaker51

This picture, women of Wadsworth Watch Co., tells me saving the description has importance. I'd seen them self-explanatory, that's kind of myopic.

----------


## Jon

NACA dynamometer crew working on Allison V-1710 engine. March, 1943.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

cmarlow (Sep 5, 2021),

jimfols (Sep 5, 2021)

----------


## IntheGroove

Will someone get that guy a hat to match his tie...

----------


## hemmjo

I am wondering why that guy at the left of the frame appears to have his hand on some kind of switch. That does not look like a good idea with the other guys working on the engine.

----------


## IntheGroove

No one is "working" on the engine...

----------


## jimfols

2327
Check out the trousers on the guy at the switch.
I had a pair of knickers made out of the same material 80 years ago.
Never forget them for some reason.

----------


## cmarlow

1500 hp @ 3000 rpm
(roughly 1/3 more power than the RR merlin)

----------

mcthistle007 (Sep 6, 2021)

----------


## IntheGroove

In 1941 the Allison V-1710 had 1250 HP @ 3200 RPM...

----------

mcthistle007 (Sep 6, 2021)

----------


## cmarlow

without the turbocharger.

----------

mcthistle007 (Sep 6, 2021)

----------


## mcthistle007

Is this a V-12 or V-What?That engine must've have had some power! The size of that dyno-meter or hydra-matic! Any power specs?

----------


## Toolmaker51

V-12. So why at 4 valves per cylinder, are there only 11 exhaust tubes visible on port bank?

And knickers of the same fabric? Thankfully what passed for snazzy then, hasn't continued. Or coordinating plaids of hat and tie, lol.

----------


## hemmjo

> V-12. So why at 4 valves per cylinder, are there only 11 exhaust tubes visible on port bank?



I was wondering that also. I am thinking the 12th tube is blocked from view by that guys hand

----------


## IntheGroove

Engineering marvel...

----------

cmarlow (Sep 6, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 6, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I was wondering that also. I am thinking the 12th tube is blocked from view by that guys hand



On a bigger monitor [not my laptop] a bolt head and strap, alike with others holding tray beneath exhaust tubes IS visible. Shadow from cuff hides tube opening. Have to pursue picture link, and then + to get full size.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Engineering marvel...



It sure is, a thing of beauty; evolved from pencil sketches, slide rules, and engineering intuition. Can't suppress my refrain; another reason a lot of us still speak English.

----------

IntheGroove (Sep 6, 2021)

----------


## schuylergrace

What were they pumping or spinning up behind the engine? Maybe getting the turbine spinning?

----------


## Toolmaker51

> What were they pumping or spinning up behind the engine? Maybe getting the turbine spinning?



Performance test, that's a dynamometer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamometer

----------


## schuylergrace

> Performance test, that's a dynamometer.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamometer



No, not the original post, but the follow-up that had video of one of those engines starting and running. They joked about having to get folks from the audience to help with whatever they were cranking/pumping back there. Another thought was that they might have been winding up a flywheel used as a mechanical starter.

----------


## Toolmaker51

Aaaah. It must be some kind of flywheel with tremendous gear reduction; it's heard clearly when audience member lays into it.

----------

schuylergrace (Sep 7, 2021)

----------


## Crow940

My Dad worked for the NACA at Langley Field as an aerodynamicst at that time

----------


## jimfols

2338

Inertia Starter

Crank-starting a WW2 Panther tank - GIF

----------

cmarlow (Sep 7, 2021),

schuylergrace (Sep 7, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 7, 2021)

----------


## 12bolts

Dad used to have an Allis Chalmers bulldozer with an inertia starter. We kids used to love winding that thing up!

----------

schuylergrace (Sep 7, 2021)

----------


## TrickieDickie

For entertainment as kids in rural Mississippi my cousins, some 19 of various ages, and I would push papaws farm wagon up the hill on the county dirt road in front of their shotgun house. At the top we all jumped on and road it down steering it by the tongue (flipped back to us), heaven help us if a car was coming, no brakes and just a ditch to steer into.

----------


## Jon

Setting an extension shaft during the installation of a 44-inch blooming mill in the Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation. September, 1953.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Sep 12, 2021)

----------


## jimfols

I like the way the lifting cables are attached.

----------


## gatz

Is that a "shop dog" or a pile of rags on the lower right ?

----------


## Frank S

its a pile of rags. But surely there must be other things for 2/3rds of those men standing around watching could be doing.

----------


## Toolmaker51

Plenty of crew, no doubt, only 3 pair of hands actually doing anything. Remainder clearly trained by State [of your choice] Road-way Departments.
Riggers look to have had a plan, LOTS of dunnage. 
The dog "Rags" though played safe, piling up spare cloth to make them THINK we was on station.

----------


## cmarlow

How many bodies can you count in this picture?
I wonder if setting the shaft is pretty much the end of the job or at least a fairly important step and the picture is almost like a commemorative for the entire crew, like maybe it will be the last time they will all be together?

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

All it takes is some ingenuity, the right equipment and a cast of thousands! It looks like that extension caused them to take out a fair share of the wall to allow that shaft extension.

----------

cmarlow (Sep 13, 2021)

----------


## cmarlow

It looks like in addition to bolting up the flanges there is some sort of large square key on the shaft flange face to line up between the shaft and what is driving it.

----------


## NeiljohnUK

> I like the way the lifting cables are attached.



Yes the improvised spreader and protection pieces would be essential to stop the slings slipping together or damaging the shaft, something I have to do with some of the odd lifts at work where no one's thought of just how the slings will try to slip/close up and crush the items casings usually.

----------

cmarlow (Sep 14, 2021)

----------


## Jon

> WAVES recruits in the training school at the U.S. Naval Hospital in Bethesda, Maryland, enjoy a joke with one of the hospital's Pharmacist's Mates, Patrick La Rosa, engaged in one of the frequent, if not favorite, Navy pastimes of "swabbing the deck. From left to right are WAVES Jean Rindall, Naomi Edwards, Charlotte Kofoid, Nancy Crane, Carol Peterson, Geneva Dudley, and Jean Aldo. The WAVES are wearing Pharmacist's Mate striker badges on their sleeves, and the poster on the wall admonishes "Don't ever call it a boat! Unless you can hoist it aboard a ship. 18 July 1945.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...l_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Sep 19, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Sep 21, 2021)

----------


## IntheGroove

"Did you hear the one about the WAVES out on the sea?"...

----------


## Jon

Work crew at the Krupp factory steel press bending the Tiger Tank turret.

----------

f800 (Sep 28, 2021),

jimfols (Sep 26, 2021),

KustomsbyKent (Sep 28, 2021),

mwmkravchenko (Sep 28, 2021),

nova_robotics (Oct 2, 2021)

----------


## Drew1966

Nice press for the time.

----------


## 12bolts

I would have thought that work would be done hot? But obviously not looking at 'ol mates hands

----------


## Ralphxyz

The guy does have heavy gloves on.

Ralph

----------


## cmarlow

Two things I find curious. 
The press has almost like a round milling table with T slots and mounted upside down on top to fasten the forming tools too. Would it have been rotatable or fixed?

They lit the scene with lights placed inside the formed turret sitting on the shop floor. It probably made metering for exposure in the picture much more difficult. Did they really want to cast such weird shadows or were they just trying to avoid the lights blowing out the entire scene by using the turret as a giant shade? Note that there is another light hidden behind the column on the right to infill some of the shadows.

(they might have been making great tanks, but making great pictures not so much)

----------


## Toolmaker51

It looks as the bushing blocks are attached, to guide vertical travel. Can't imagine a rotating fixture table, though a large faceplate [cannibalized from a lathe] would expedite the build. Slots converging at center suits large or small tooling. 
I think the lighting is to emphasize part contours; lots of general photographers see forms more important than how they were created.
Most all b/w's Jon post are the reverse, expounding the industrial element.

----------

cmarlow (Oct 3, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Machine shop workers at the Westinghouse Electric Corporation. 1900.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Oct 9, 2021)

----------


## gatz

Are those some kind of switching device?

----------


## bruce.desertrat

> Are those some kind of switching device?



Transformers, I think.You can see a coil in one of them just behind the guys working on the bench. Designed to be oil-filled hence the valve on the bottom of the completed one.

----------


## gatz

Thanks for the info.

----------


## Ralphxyz

So is the guy sitting over head the foreman or the crane operator? That is some heavy duty chain falls.

Ralph

----------

cmarlow (Oct 3, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Ford Motor Company assembly line.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

cmarlow (Oct 10, 2021)

----------


## cmarlow

Model AA truck?

----------


## gatz

Must be, At first I thought it was Model A, but the hand brake is not in the right location (right side of xmsn)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Paraphrased opening, setting the era of from 2003 motion picture _Seabiscuit_ "Real revolution wasn't the car, but the assembly line that made it...", lamenting that "cabinetmakers became knob turners, and seamstresses became button sewers...". 
Movie in my regard quite good bit of storytelling, at same time the opening scenes and dialog, epic. It doesn't bother me when a little poetic license is utilized, condensing historic time into duration an audience will remain seated.
They can't all be Napoléon [1927], Gone With The Wind [1939], Lawrence of Arabia [1962], or....

----------


## tedg53

I restored a ‘29 Model A Sport Coupe several years ago and during my research I found that there were lots changes over the 4 years of Model A production, not only from year to year but many mid year running changes as well.
The very early 1928 Model A’s had the emergency brake lever on the left side of the car, just inside the door, later it was moved to in front of the shifter then to the right of the shifter. The early ‘28 emergency brake activated the brake rods for all four wheels then the government stepped in and required the emergency brakes to be activated separate from the service brakes.

----------


## Jon

NACA instrument machine shop. January, 1953.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...p_fullsize.jpg

----------

cmarlow (Oct 17, 2021),

jimfols (Oct 17, 2021)

----------


## cmarlow

In the back of the room are two rows of lathes and related machinery. Does anybody recognize what brand they are?

----------


## Toolmaker51

Back row to left are Cincinnati's & Kearney-Treckers, towards right appears a Hardinge horizontal, and a shaper. Likely Cincy too, or Gould-Eberhardt. Farther right are Hardinge; first is a turret model, other a standard.
Lathes are Rivett to left, I believe; remainder are Monarch 10-EE. No question on those. Rivett and the 10-EE's are probably the best precision lathes ever made. The Monarch is still being produced, most parts available for the earlier 'Round Dial', and they're still rebuilding the 'Square Dial' today.
You have to _really_ want a new one....well over $100,000 new. Even used, expect to shell out up to $12-13 thousand. Looking and luck might halve that.
Lathes + Machine Tool Archive ...........warning! BEST rabbit hole ever!

----------

cmarlow (Oct 19, 2021),

mcthistle007 (Oct 19, 2021),

Ralphxyz (Oct 19, 2021),

Rikk (Oct 19, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Manufacturing metal helmets at B.F. McDonald Co. Los Angeles, CA. 1942.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...2_fullsize.jpg

----------

carloski (Oct 25, 2021),

cmarlow (Oct 24, 2021),

jimfols (Oct 24, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Oct 24, 2021)

----------


## Ralphxyz

What are those helmets for? The one to the ight of the second women looks huge.

Ralph

----------

cmarlow (Oct 24, 2021)

----------


## cmarlow

They do look a bit taller than the regular Brodie style helmet used by the Commonwealth nations but that could be a trick of perspective in the photo.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

They look like WWI-style 'Brodie' helmets (something I just learned, looking it up ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodie_helmet A couple million were produced for Civil Defense use in WWII, so it's likely this is what they're making, as the familiar Mk1 GI Helmet was in production by '42. (again, per wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_helmet )

I have a vague memory of pictures of US troops in the very early part of our involvement showing up for basic training and getting issued the old 'doughboy' helmets.

----------

cmarlow (Oct 24, 2021)

----------


## cmarlow

> ....A couple million were produced for Civil Defense use in WWII, so it's likely this is what they're making, as the familiar Mk1 GI Helmet was in production by '42. .....



 The height of the crown makes me wonder if they were indeed civil defense helmets on the Zuckerman pattern, which was basically a modified Brodie using cheaper steel and adding more crumple space above the head to compensate.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> What are those helmets for? The one to the ight of the second women looks huge.
> 
> Ralph



Aliens, and accommodation of their oddly elongated heads.

----------

cmarlow (Oct 25, 2021)

----------


## TheElderBrother

Civil Defense.

----------


## hemmjo

> Manufacturing metal helmets at B.F. McDonald Co. Los Angeles, CA. 1942.



They made helmets for the logging industry.

Artifact Spotlight:*B.F. McDONALD CO. Aluminum Hard Hat - Clarke Historical Museum

----------

cmarlow (Oct 30, 2021)

----------


## cmarlow

Yes, they could be aluminum for logging too.

----------


## Jon

Vacuum cleaner production line workers at Siemens's Elektromotorenwerk motor plant. Berlin, 1930.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

cmarlow (Oct 31, 2021),

jimfols (Oct 31, 2021)

----------


## IntheGroove

Lots of natural light and plants, how nice...

----------


## cmarlow

It almost looks like they are running a toy railroad with all the little boxes rolling on 3 sets of tracks down the middle of the work bench.

----------


## Jon

Workers removing old mill shoes. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporations Aliquippa Works facility. September, 1953.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Toolmaker51

Removing mill shoes? 
Why not, a good portion of them are sitting down...

Who commissions a shot like this? 
How (why?) on earth do industrial photographers shoot such poor examples of workplace settings? 
Question might be who the photo is intended for, surely not board of directors or stockholders. If it's accountants or payroll, those men are screwed!

googling "..... mill shoes" turns up more about steel toe footwear than industrial equipment...

----------


## old_toolmaker

Its a dirty job, but somebody has to do it!

----------


## mcthistle007

Excuse me but I don't know What is "An Old Mill Shoe"? What are the workers actually doing? Just trying to understand the photo. At least it seems that there are only 2 Bosses and the The rest are Workers.

----------

bigtrev8xl (Nov 9, 2021),

cmarlow (Nov 7, 2021)

----------


## hemmjo

I am curious about what an "An Old Mill Shoe" is also.

----------

bigtrev8xl (Nov 9, 2021),

cmarlow (Nov 7, 2021),

EnginePaul (Nov 12, 2021),

Rikk (Nov 8, 2021)

----------


## howder51

Looks like it might be the roughing mill of a hot rolling mill or mini mill. Huge opening for mill scale and big slides to change rolls on. But I am guessing.

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company Erecting Department.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Ralphxyz (Nov 20, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 16, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Slightly more context on "mill shoes" at the source here: https://historicpittsburgh.org/islan...3.B002.F06.I18

Sometimes you'll see awkward labeling on these old photos; it probably gets inserted somewhere along the line between the photographer and the historical preservation association that is archiving the photo.

----------


## marksbug

so..he's getting a erection over that mesa machine parts he has to assemble....been there done that!!! new stuff is always exciting.

----------


## hemmjo

Do we even have big stuff like that shown in #2397 in the USA anymore?

----------


## marksbug

thats a lot of steel just to change directions. Im kinda supprized it dont have shiftable speed change gears too.

----------


## Unkle Fuzzy

A mill shoe is a fixed guide plate that helps control the movement of stock into and out of the rolling mill.

Shoes for a pipe rolling mill pictured.

----------

12bolts (Nov 16, 2021)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Mesta Machine Company Erecting Department.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg



I could be mistaken; but photo clearly shows large key stock on the rear most shafting, which nearly confirm evidence those miter gears are grooved for shift forks. So, whatever they are building is just part of a FAR larger mechanism and more demands of alignment, assembly and overall rigging. All that complexity, imagined or not, might just serve an end user, without being infrastructure whatsoever.

----------

jimfols (Nov 16, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

be sure to keep your fingers and other importaint body parts away from those teeth as they will bite you and you wont get it back.

----------


## jimfols

> be sure to keep your fingers and other importaint body parts away from those teeth as they will bite you and you wont get it back.



I had some thoughts about the dangers of those open gears.
But the thoughts were too political for this forum.

----------


## marksbug

yup, your probaby right. I suppose if you were to get dicks hat band caught in those she wouldent be happy.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I had some thoughts about the dangers of those open gears.
> But the thoughts were too political for this forum.



How political could it be? Charlie Chaplin did it, "_Modern Times_" 1936. Harold Lloyd did it, _"Safety Last"_ 1923. Fritz Lang did it, _"Metropolis"_ 1927. H.G. Wells did it over and over, _Rise of the Machines_ et al, nailing a zillion predictions on his own........

----------

Frank S (Nov 18, 2021)

----------


## hemmjo

> I had some thoughts about the dangers of those open gears.
> But the thoughts were too political for this forum.



Ha, we would not even be here if our ancestors had been afraid of a little "danger". Here in the USA anyway, how safe was it for our ancestors to board a creaky leaky old wooden sailing vessel. Try to survive the passage down in the dark stinky hold with the farm animals and very little eat. Then cross the wilderness to find a "better life". The people who finally made it were strong, brave, resourceful, smart and.... yes had some luck going for them. But then there is the thought that a lot of times, "you make your own luck"

As for the places they left, can only imagine how bad they were at the time. I have been to Haiti, I am sure there are other places as bad, maybe worse, Afghanistan instantly comes to mind, some places in Africa... 

Maybe one good thing that will come from climate change... All the snowflakes will melt!!!

----------


## funforall 69

Hemmjo.....You are right. We are " wimps " compared to what our ancestors have gone through. I remember as a young kid, my Grandfather going to the Dentist to have a tooth pulled. The dentist was outside cleaning fish when we got there. When the dentist got ready to pull the tooth, he asked my Grandfather " with or without ", meaning pain killer . My Grandfather asked how much more it would cost for the pain killer, and the dentist told him $5.00, so my Grandfather told him without, and pulled a hair on Grandfather's arm at the same time he pulled his tooth. This was probably in the early 1940's, when $5.00 was a lot of money.....I don't know, it could have been during War time, when everything was in short supply; and $5.00 was really a lot of money.

----------


## stillldoinit

Speaking of a tooth pulled without painkiller.
I am a recovering Alcholic, sober 43 years. Before I quit drinking I had a tooth filled that was killing my with pain. Asked dentist if it was cheaper without pain killer, don’t remember how much but I went without. All it meant to me was I could afford a couple more drinks.

----------


## IntheGroove

> But then there is the thought that a lot of times, "you make your own luck"



Luck is the crossroads of opportunity and preparedness...

----------

Toolmaker51 (Nov 21, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Extruding tungsten on the Loewy press in the materials processing laboratory. NASA. March, 1964.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...a_fullsize.jpg

----------

mwmkravchenko (Nov 23, 2021),

nova_robotics (Nov 22, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Aircraft manufacturing at the Nuremberg plant, 1916.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Nov 28, 2021),

nova_robotics (Nov 29, 2021),

redbaron1917 (Nov 29, 2021)

----------


## jimfols

2413 

Skylights are wonderful.

----------

Beserkleyboy (Nov 28, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

it's all wonderfull.execpt for somany were used for killing&war.

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Jim, aren't they...ALL the old factories in Syd and MLB were long buildings, North facing with DEEP clerestory windows and skylight roof panels on the skillion roofs behind...and anything post war was closed in with huge sodium lights. My workshop is north facing with a 5 x 2.5 m roller door. I hate it when I have to close it...cheers

----------


## Fluffle-Valve

Hand painted sign writing.

----------


## NeiljohnUK

> Jim, aren't they...ALL the old factories in Syd and MLB were long buildings, North facing with DEEP clerestory windows and skylight roof panels on the skillion roofs behind...and anything post war was closed in with huge sodium lights. My workshop is north facing with a 5 x 2.5 m roller door. I hate it when I have to close it...cheers



My father worked for Briggs motor bodies post war (they took over and expanded the Supermarine works at Eastleigh airfield), he commented that apart from the 'North-light" skylight roof all illumination came from widely spaced single incandescent lamps (bulbs) in dirty green outside white inside enamelled shades, the Ford motor company bought Briggs and closed the factory for 2 weeks for 'maintenance', on return there were continuous 4 wide strip lights the length of the place spaced ~ every 12-15 feet across the factory floor, no more quiet shadows to hide in...

----------

Beserkleyboy (Dec 3, 2021)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

> Aircraft manufacturing at the Nuremberg plant, 1916.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg



Looks like a bunch of little Fokkers to me!

----------

bruce.desertrat (Dec 3, 2021)

----------


## meyer77

> Skirts, aprons and heels on an assembly line. My how times have changed. Moreover, I can't even see any tattoos.



Most are dressed better for work, than some today are dressed to go out.
Years ago one had to pay to see the tattooed lady. not any more.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Dec 11, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

so...where does he have her tatooed?,is she on his....surf bord?smash: :Banana Dance:  on another note...how do you know the tatoo is a lady these days :ROFL:  :Embarrassed:  :Rimshot: ?

----------


## meyer77

> so...where does he have her tatooed?,is she on his....surf bord?smash: on another note...how do you know the tatoo is a lady these days?



You never know these days, I see both young and old "ladies" tattooed. It all depend on what they identify as!

----------


## Jon

Workers spread plaster on the surface of plate glass. Pittsburgh Plate Glass Company. Ford City, PA. 1950.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg

----------

old_toolmaker (Dec 5, 2021),

Sleykin (Dec 11, 2021)

----------


## old_toolmaker

I wonder what the purpose of spreading plaster on plate glass is?
Could it be for protection during shipping?

----------


## hemmjo

> I wonder what the purpose of spreading plaster on plate glass is?
> Could it be for protection during shipping?



It is part of the manufacturing process.

----------

Beserkleyboy (Dec 5, 2021),

Inner (Dec 7, 2021),

Jon (Dec 6, 2021),

old_toolmaker (Dec 5, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 11, 2021)

----------


## Beserkleyboy

Hemmjo, thanks for that link. Fascinating stuff, I've just come up for air after an hour down the glass manufacturing rabbit hole...Pilks Australia is still a large player here, as is Viridian. I had the fun of supplying low Fe glass shelves for a dining room china cabinet, 3000 wide x 2100 high in 2008, for a fussy customer who did not like the green edge of regular float. It was 50% more expensive, but in the end, I decided to always use it, when behind glass doors. Thanks for your contributions here.
Jim

----------


## Toolmaker51

re *2420
I've seen a sparse few tattooed ladies; though tattooed women abound.

Meanwhile, Yes, that is one of the best quotes ever, getting clearer every day. 
I'm going to mount a big iron clapper alarm, and tempting black and white decoy wire running to the electromagnet. When a perp snips that, a poster of that quote drops in front of said perp. He/ she/ it will have time to read it before proceeding as neer-do-well. 
Not confrontational, I just worked WAY too hard getting this far.

----------


## Jon

> Production. Willow Run bomber plant. Spot welding parts for the nacelle of an aircraft engine. These women work in the largest one-story building in the works, the giant bomber plant at Willow Run, Michigan. Ford plant, Willow Run. 1942 July.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

Toolmaker51 (Dec 12, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

so...what was willow running from??

----------


## Toolmaker51

Jon's poster finds are going to fill every available square inch of my shop entry; a modest history lesson centered on manufacturing history. It's been my quest to alert washed minds of what all that effort requires, and inestimable benefit to our economy.
Spent whole morning with an expert in dynamic engine balancing. he worked on a LS crank for Baja with serious amount of Mallory Metal in the throws. Having built scores of the 383-400 conversions, all was fine until knock-off importations started. So poorly done, mains and crankpins require reground .010/.010 to correct RMS finish, regularity in positioning, and correcting the corners of throws! Why? They hit piston skirts....which required massaging too.
Thank you, lobbyists along with certain manufacturing and retail associations  :Angry:

----------


## marksbug

the knockoffs have been hear since the 80's .most I have seen and used are far better than most places will/can grind them..even the big guys use some offshore cranks with thise names on them. heavy metel is expensive and a good reason for light weight parts as well as crank lighting in the right places. I dont plenty of heavy metal in many different apps. and seen the moron way fo doing it in "promod engine" musta been a budget engine with used up parts. it was one of the funneyest thisng I had ever seen... 1 inch wide by 1/4" thick steep strap welded around the counter weights....wtf?? and much more than that throught the engine. as for the crank finish of the imports,Ive never had any issue with them I always polich befor assy and set the clearances where I want them( tight side, with thin syn oil) and coated bearings.OH How I love coated bearings. I think they may just be indestructable....well almost. I probably still have some mallory around hear somewhere... Ive even seen it installed by drilling down into the counter weight and pounded in...and...flung back out...you cant fix stupid. I think I still have the reamers for installing them correctly hear at home. I miss doing all that stuff.and racing too. 
if they hit the piston skrt...the skirt is in the way.and weighs too much...time to lighten it. :Smile:  and or the rod is too short. probably both.

----------


## Jon

Forge reheating a 90 ton ingot. Carnegie Steel Company. 1890.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg

----------

carloski (Dec 20, 2021),

mwmkravchenko (Dec 21, 2021),

nova_robotics (Dec 20, 2021)

----------


## marksbug

I remember than movie and the stars!!! ingot burnman.!!!!with carl withers...and remington steel!!!

----------


## Jon

Four men standing on the running boards of a car to demonstrate the strength of PPG Herculite windshield glass. 1938.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...t_fullsize.jpg

----------

cmarlow (Dec 27, 2021),

marksbug (Dec 26, 2021),

nova_robotics (Jan 1, 2022),

old_toolmaker (Dec 26, 2021)

----------


## old_toolmaker

Properly dressed for the job! Might be a little different today.

----------


## cmarlow

Packard Coupe

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Properly dressed for the job! Might be a little different today.



On running boards in suit and tie? Secret Service agents, FBI, or mafia henchmen come to mind.

----------


## Frank S

> On running boards in suit and tie? Secret Service agents, FBI, or mafia henchmen come to mind.



Nope, probably the corporation president, factory manager, accountant, and senior engineer

----------


## cmarlow

> Nope, probably the corporation president, factory manager, accountant, and senior engineer



OK, so mafia henchmen it is.

----------

baja (Dec 28, 2021),

Frank S (Dec 27, 2021),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 27, 2021)

----------


## hemmjo

Or maybe..... the Untouchables?

----------

cmarlow (Dec 27, 2021),

nova_robotics (Jan 1, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 27, 2021)

----------


## Jon

Workers at the Aircraft Engine Research Laboratory. Cleveland, Ohio. June, 1944.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...4_fullsize.jpg

----------

marksbug (Jan 2, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

re post *2441
Rather safe assumption regarding that encased laboratory scale is by Henry Troemner Co. of Philadelphia, PA. A long association between that company and US Government purchasing agents. Used examples still abound, and sell for respectable amounts. 
Is the apparatus on left related to the illustration _"Surface Welding Apparatus"_ above their heads to the right? The photos appear to show ideal, acceptable and reject product.
Which fits what the woman standing is doing, that box is surely a lapping turntable.

----------

marksbug (Jan 2, 2022)

----------


## Jon

> Line up of some of women welders including the women's welding champion of Ingalls [Shipbuilding Corp., Pascagoula, MS].



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...a_fullsize.jpg

----------

carloski (Jan 11, 2022),

marksbug (Jan 9, 2022),

nova_robotics (Jan 10, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 13, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

I was there this summer passing through on the way to new Orleans. they musta had the day off. and probably well deserved.

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Rosie the Riveter's cousin Wendy the Welder is third from the left I think...

----------


## neilbourjaily

> re post *2441
> Rather safe assumption regarding that encased laboratory scale is by Henry Troemner Co. of Philadelphia, PA. A long association between that company and US Government purchasing agents. Used examples still abound, and sell for respectable amounts. 
> Is the apparatus on left related to the illustration _"Surface Welding Apparatus"_ above their heads to the right? The photos appear to show ideal, acceptable and reject product.
> Which fits what the woman standing is doing, that box is surely a lapping turntable.



They're the balance we used in the lab decades ago before digital. Remarkably sensitive. We used tweezers to set the weights because our hand oils would change them, adding weight initially and corroding them eventually.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jan 13, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> They're the balance we used in the lab decades ago before digital. Remarkably sensitive. We used tweezers to set the weights because our hand oils would change them, adding weight initially and corroding them eventually.



My Lyman calibration/ verification weights for reloading are handled _identically_. Often wonder why more corrosion resistant metals aren't are not used; brass turns out just 'Ok'. And lol, half of them too stinkin' small for anything but tweezers!

----------


## marksbug

the gold ones worked ok but they grew legs...tungsten may be a idea.

----------


## mklotz

I've seen tweezers with bone or ivory tips that were used to handle weights because of the fear of steel tweezers scratching them.

I was amazed by the vernier weight rig on some analytical balances. Basically, it consisted of a light chain - one end attached to the weight pan arm, the other to a small drum that could be rotated by a shaft that projected outside the glass case. Turning the shaft caused more or less chain to hang from the balance; a calibrated dial on the drum showed the amount of weight added to the scale arm.

----------


## NeiljohnUK

> My Lyman calibration/ verification weights for reloading are handled _identically_. Often wonder why more corrosion resistant metals aren't are not used; brass turns out just 'Ok'. And lol, half of them too stinkin' small for anything but tweezers!



When you working in fractions of grains weights do need to be small I suppose. My Lee safety scale does just fine for checking powder weight, though I use a modern pocket digital mini-scale (called drug dealer scales by many here in the UK) to check weigh each loaded case (no projectile) and full round for safety and QC (cases are batched when cleaned), though I'm never close to max loads and we don't have pistols which are far more problematic with both double charging and detonating under charging potential.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jan 14, 2022)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

> I've seen tweezers with bone or ivory tips that were used to handle weights because of the fear of steel tweezers scratching them.
> 
> I was amazed by the vernier weight rig on some analytical balances. Basically, it consisted of a light chain - one end attached to the weight pan arm, the other to a small drum that could be rotated by a shaft that projected outside the glass case. Turning the shaft caused more or less chain to hang from the balance; a calibrated dial on the drum showed the amount of weight added to the scale arm.



Wow! That's a long way to go but accuracy is essential.

----------

tritek61 (Jan 18, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Welding and grinding wires. Westinghouse Electric Corporation. 1956.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

old_toolmaker (Jan 16, 2022)

----------


## old_toolmaker

I dont see OSHA in the picture?
Must be lurking somewhere!

----------


## jimfols

2452

Back when women were women and the men weren't.

----------


## hemmjo

> I don’t see OSHA in the picture?
> Must be lurking somewhere!



photo 1956, OSHA 1971

----------

bruce.desertrat (Jan 17, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I don’t see OSHA in the picture?
> Must be lurking somewhere!



Shades of the future; two merely observing in hardhats. Those working instead of posing in fedora's and ball caps......
As to when women and men had clear identity, the pic label is confusing. 
That looks a lot more like a steam turbine (ie 'low pressure') then any motor armature, no?

----------


## hemmjo

The description on the photo says, "Low pressure spindle lash wires being welded and ground". Never had a steam turbine apart. Are there wires that hold the blades in position?

----------

cmarlow (Jan 16, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Long, narrow (large diameter) vanes make it seem almost a requirement for reinforcement, like struts in a biplane. At those tremendous RPM's, flex in both directions nearly assured.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

I think they're prepping for the outer ring you can see on the smaller blades between them.

----------


## NeiljohnUK

I agree it's the low pressure section of a multi-stage (H.P.(I.P.?)L.P.) steam turbine of it era, in the 1960's/70's 500 MW sets I worked on that's smaller than the I.P. section. The pressure/temperature differences would be interesting to know, ours were HP inlet 165 bar / 541°C , IP inlet 40 bar / 541°C and 3 x LP in parallel acting as 1 turbine with residual pressure from IP outlet entering and below atmospheric pressure (vacuum) at the condensed exit. The LP sections final blade set were large enough in diameter that the root was travelling below the speed of sound and the tips above. Failure to 'bar' (continuing to turn the shaft using an electric motor via a reduction gearbox) would lead to differential cooling and a bent turbine shaft, we even had a 'ride the tool post' lathe big enough to machine the LP sections.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jan 17, 2022)

----------


## neilbourjaily

OSHA!? What about California's cancer warnings? I think residents f the Golden State are warned not to breathe.

----------


## hemmjo

> OSHA!? What about California's cancer warnings? I think residents f the Golden State are warned not to breathe.




It has been proven that ONLY those who breathe can get cancer. That MUST be the cause!!!!

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

> It has been proven that ONLY those who breathe can get cancer. That MUST be the cause!!!!



CALOSHA also discovered that saliva causes death... but only if swallowed in small quantities over a long period of time...

----------


## Toolmaker51

> OSHA!? What about California's cancer warnings? I think residents f the Golden State are warned not to breathe.






Not a teeny bit. Just try shopping a solid object without a Proposition 65 Warning. Even stainless steel. https://www.google.com/search?client...d&q=CA+Prop+65 .They all cook in clay pots?
Nearly as persuasive as the more genuine water shortage; but find a brown golf course, even in the desert....not yet!
No matter how irritating liberals and woke-ees are, they provide endless entertainment for sensible folks.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I agree it's the low pressure section of a multi-stage (H.P.(I.P.?)L.P.) steam turbine of it era, in the 1960's/70's 500 MW sets I worked on that's smaller than the I.P. section.....snipped......would lead to differential cooling and a bent turbine shaft, we even had a 'ride the tool post' lathe big enough to machine the LP sections.



What a terrific technical description. As clear you worked that yesterday!

That "barring over" required of very accurate rotating assemblies carried on elsewhere too......Though ball bearings had been around some time, they were barely able to sustain speeds and loads of early jet turbine engines. They were kept turning slowly to avoid flat spots on bearing assemblies. The airflow requirements of intake/ exhaust made remaining space limited; way different then found in something like a motor case, real end bearings and maintaining thrust clearances.

----------


## mklotz

> Not a teeny bit. Just try shopping a solid object without a Proposition 65 Warning. Even stainless steel. ...



Many Proposition 65 warning signs required in various establishments are printed on heavy plastic.

I wish I had the money to fund a chemistry lab to prove that the signs, when heated by the sun, give off gases that "are known to the state of California to cause cancer".

Then I could take the state to court and make them put Prop 65 warnings on the Prop 65 signs.  :Evil:

----------

neilbourjaily (Jan 17, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 17, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Many Proposition 65 warning signs required in various establishments are printed on heavy plastic.
> 
> I wish I had the money to fund a chemistry lab to prove that the signs, when heated by the sun, give off gases that "are known to the state of California to cause cancer".
> 
> Then I could take the state to court and make them put Prop 65 warnings on the Prop 65 signs.



Proof is near already made; off-gassing is going on all the time. One example is film that collects inside auto windshields; vaporized petroleum products. Can't recall one plastic not petro based. Proof is near already made; off-gassing is going on all the time. One example is film that collects inside auto windshields; vaporized petroleum products. Can't recall one plastic not petro based.
That film by the way is difficult to remove; glass cleaner is not efficient or effective. Pro's use 70%+ clinical alcohol and micro-fiber towels, not paper or cotton.

----------


## neilbourjaily

Any asphalt off-gasses. It's called VOC. Volatile Organic Compounds is. OMG! What about the vinyl in mu old pickup?

----------


## Jon

Wheel shaping workers. Wheel and Axle Division. McKees Rocks, PA. April, 1962.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Jan 24, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Workers building a Douglas A-20 Havoc. Long Beach, California. 1942.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

cmarlow (Jan 30, 2022),

Floradawg (Feb 1, 2022),

marksbug (Jan 31, 2022),

nova_robotics (Feb 5, 2022),

Rangi (Feb 4, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Jan 30, 2022)

----------


## old_toolmaker

Take a good look at the footwear worn by the woman working by the cockpit door. I doubt those heels would be OSHA approved today. The work environment was sure different back then.

----------


## cmarlow

She and the dude in white look more like the receptionist and the janitor were added to the composition so it would look like they had more than the 3 guys actually dressed like mechanics available

----------

jackhoying (Feb 7, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Seamless Tube Department workers. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation. Aliquippa, PA.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

carloski (Feb 22, 2022),

jimfols (Feb 7, 2022),

nova_robotics (Feb 7, 2022),

old_toolmaker (Feb 7, 2022),

Ralphxyz (Feb 7, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 6, 2022)

----------


## old_toolmaker

Dirty working environment. I would not like to work at that plant, but that was acceptable back then. No wonder peoples life expectancy was shorter than today.

----------


## Jon

Workers attach the Gold-Plated Record to Voyager 1. July, 1977.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

old_toolmaker (Feb 20, 2022),

Rangi (Feb 14, 2022)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

Info on what's on the record is available at JPL's site https://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/golden-record/ there's a staggering amount of data encoded on it, all analog.

The music had a clear bias: Bach had three selections, Beethoven two and 'Dark Side of the Moon' was snubbed _Boo!_

----------

baja (Feb 15, 2022),

jackhoying (Feb 15, 2022),

Rangi (Feb 14, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 14, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Blacksmith crew. Lester Logging Company. Washington, 1915.

----------

12bolts (Feb 20, 2022),

Andyt (Feb 22, 2022),

carloski (Feb 22, 2022),

cmarlow (Feb 27, 2022),

jimfols (Feb 20, 2022),

mwmkravchenko (Feb 22, 2022),

nova_robotics (Feb 26, 2022),

rlm98253 (Feb 22, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Feb 20, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

re: post *2477 
Blacksmiths probably, carpenters probably not.

----------


## mansworld

They need the blacksmith to fabricate logging tools and equipment such as ax, hook, chain, crowbar, log dolly, etc.



> re: post *2477 
> Blacksmiths probably, carpenters probably not.

----------


## hemmjo

You DO NOT want to mess with that guy holding the hammer. That is not a small hammer. Look at his hand. It appress he is holding it with just 3 fingers. It does appear he has it leaning against his chest a little, but still that is a big hammer!!!

Defiinitely not a carpenters hammer.

----------


## Fluffle-Valve

> You DO NOT want to mess with that guy holding the hammer. That is not a small hammer. Look at his hand. It appress he is holding it with just 3 fingers. It does appear he has it leaning against his chest a little, but still that is a big hammer!!!
> 
> Defiinitely not a carpenters hammer.



I'm betting all four of them are as hard as nails and I certainly wouldn't want to mess with any of them.

----------


## marksbug

black smith,not much different that carpenter, just diferent tools, you still have to make things fit. my grandad was a back smith and carpenter.(on my dads side) he built a many churches & the pews inside in northern LA ( lousiana/arkansas border in the fork of delauter.. )many old maps show the town there being named either after us or we were named atfer the town,nobody knows, and most or all I have found including my dad & his brother who died last year at 87 years old never knew that area was named after the family, but somehow google shows it to be the name of the area "tucker town") I do not know when the name was stoped being used but it must of been in the 1800's or earlier. my other grandad was just a carpenter. He built many/most of the homes in/around Gustine & another smaller town I ferget the name of cali including the one m 87 year old mom was born in and grew up in. that side of my family also owned one of the 2 or 3 major water wells that survived the big SanFran earth quake/fire in sanfran sysco. :Head Scratch:  I know thats not how it is spelled..., that was one bussy well. as for me...I personaly thing any body can be acarpenter if they give a ****. me a machinest, racer,dad ,fabricator.and also carpenter wen needed. I built my 24x34 shop by my self, finished like a home on the inside with central ac&heat&bathroom&kitchen,all drywalled.all painted nicley( wife did help with shingles and helped picking up the ridge board.) my small toy shop 12x12' ,my 2 story barn( also finished on the inside with ac & heat, I did all my self execpt for the concreate slab's, I did do all forming for everything. it's possiably the simplest stuff Ive ever done. it can be quite relaxing.and fustrating to do when your a machinest and work down the to .0001" on most stuff. for some reason wood just dont like cutting exzactly. so if you need a break go out and build a few sheds or a shop, it's quite eazy. as for door frames...I dont really use them,I buy door slabs and build the building to fit. no shiming required.( it's good to use pressure treeted on those of they are exterrior doors.) plumbing is eazy as is the electrickel & AC.I did have my brother come over to charge the AC unit for me. it's nice to have blue prints or just do them your self and work it all out before hand. and since Im in Florida my stuff has to pass some pretty ridged standards.( hurricane)and passed with no issues. inspector said it was over kill.

----------


## Jon

Workers at the Aircraft Engine Research Laboratory in Cleveland, Ohio. 1944.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

cmarlow (Feb 27, 2022),

jimfols (Feb 27, 2022),

nova_robotics (Feb 28, 2022)

----------


## jimfols

Charlies Angels couldn't hold a candle to these girls.

----------

marksbug (Feb 28, 2022)

----------


## mlochala

> ...my grandad was a back smith and carpenter.(on my dads side) he built a many churches & the pews inside in northern LA ( lousiana/arkansas border in the fork of delauter.. )many old maps show the town there being named either after us or we were named atfer the town,nobody knows, and most or all I have found including my dad & his brother who died last year at 87 years old never knew that area was named after the family, but somehow google shows it to be the name of the area "tucker town") I do not know when the name was stoped being used but it must of been in the 1800's or earlier...



Although I am not sure where the town is to which you referred, but NW Louisiana is where I am originally from as well.

----------


## marksbug

wow thats 2 people in the last year Ive met from up there. well 4 including her kids. we were waiting for a flight ,I was going to mem tenn she was at the rong gate. she asked me why I was going to spearsville...I didnt look like airforce....she almost blew my mind, then I looked at the next gate and it said spearsville on it. now that blew my mind. a flight from florida to sperasville. I may have to do that some day. to see some old people before there all gone. or Im gone. I also have a local friend at the afb up there for another year or so.

----------


## marksbug

> Although I am not sure where the town is to which you referred, but NW Louisiana is where I am originally from as well.



farmville /bernice area, rural route 2 I think,but back in the woods was "tucker town"long long ago, but nobody remembers tucker town road gos around the town up to the arkensaw border or very close to it. I still have some ken folk up there is that area. heck you may be one of them :Idea:

----------


## Jon

Typesetters at _Milwaukee Journal_. 1930s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

EnginePaul (Mar 8, 2022),

jimfols (Mar 6, 2022),

old_toolmaker (Mar 7, 2022)

----------


## jimfols

I knew people did that job back in the day.
But I never met any of them.

----------


## hemmjo

I have set type, by hand, for a small letter press in college, late 60's. As I recall it had about a 12" x 14" chase. 

So frustrating when someone before you replaced the type in the wrong spot in the type case.

----------


## marksbug

just using this dam keybord chalanges me...spellen too :Embarrassed:

----------


## gatz

At Camp Creek Threshers (Waverly NE) this Linotype was set up for demonstrations. I think it still is.



My MIL had spent time at one of those machines back in the day.

While there, I had them make a slug with her name on it. She was as happy as a kid with a new toy.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

I got to use an old Linotype machine once back in high school; our print shop class had gotten two when the local newspapers switched to phototypesetting; they gave all their old Linotypes to the high schools.

Unfortunately while I was enrolled in print shop I broke my thumb and spent most of the 9 week class with a cast on my left hand and arm.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Typesetters at _Milwaukee Journal_. 1930s.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg



Have we discovered why mainstreammedia is less trusted than perhaps in this era?
Yes, ran (rammed?) that term together intentionally.

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

I have one Model 31 Linotype up and running each year at the print shop at the Tri-State Engine and Threshers Assn. in Bird City, KS. That show always begins on the last Thursday of July and the following Friday and Saturday. You can see many steam tractors as well as a lot of older machinery there, a blacksmith shop, etc. The print shop is just a small part of that show. Come see that show if you can and you can see a Linotype in operation.

For some 25+ years after my stint as Plant Engineer for a heavy equipment builder which went out of business in 1982 I operated a commercial letterpress and hot lead typesetting shop I had previously run as a part time "hobby" shop and, as Linotype and other linecasting machinery quickly became obsolescent when "cold type" became the norm, these machines were had for little or no cost just to get rid of them. I believe I owned 19 of them, many I scrapped and parted out. I currently have the one in Bird City and one at my home shop, a Model 32. When I got over 60 I had to get another PE job for health insurance and the letterpress shop was nearly shut down. When Medicare became available to me I retired from the Coil Coater plant previously mentioned and since then I've pretty much do what I wish at my "little tin shed" (5000 square feet) on my small farm East of Denver. In it I have quite a few older machine tools, welding equipment, etc. I just acquired a 19 inch LeBlond lathe (20-1'2 swing over the bed), 8 feet Centers, and have been trying to rearrange things to get it in to replace an old Cone Head lathe 15 inch swing by 8 foot centers dating to the late 19th Century. 

I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up!

----------

techcollect (Mar 14, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 7, 2022)

----------


## hemmjo

> Have we discovered why mainstreammedia is less trusted than perhaps in this era?
> Yes, ran (rammed?) that term together intentionally.



I believe it is because every letter those guys set was written by a real reporter. Today, it seems like all of our news is cut and pasted from one source to another. When I was in school what was called plagiarism. Also, the news outlets totally control the content. The content is now as much click bait as it is that real news.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Mar 7, 2022)

----------


## funforall 69

> I have one Model 31 Linotype up and running each year at the print shop at the Tri-State Engine and Threshers Assn. in Bird City, KS. That show always begins on the last Thursday of July and the following Friday and Saturday. You can see many steam tractors as well as a lot of older machinery there, a blacksmith shop, etc. The print shop is just a small part of that show. Come see that show if you can and you can see a Linotype in operation.
> 
> For some 25+ years after my stint as Plant Engineer for a heavy equipment builder which went out of business in 1982 I operated a commercial letterpress and hot lead typesetting shop I had previously run as a part time "hobby" shop and, as Linotype and other linecasting machinery quickly became obsolescent when "cold type" became the norm, these machines were had for little or no cost just to get rid of them. I believe I owned 19 of them, many I scrapped and parted out. I currently have the one in Bird City and one at my home shop, a Model 32. When I got over 60 I had to get another PE job for health insurance and the letterpress shop was nearly shut down. When Medicare became available to me I retired from the Coil Coater plant previously mentioned and since then I've pretty much do what I wish at my "little tin shed" (5000 square feet) on my small farm East of Denver. In it I have quite a few older machine tools, welding equipment, etc. I just acquired a 19 inch LeBlond lathe (20-1'2 swing over the bed), 8 feet Centers, and have been trying to rearrange things to get it in to replace an old Cone Head lathe 15 inch swing by 8 foot centers dating to the late 19th Century. 
> 
> I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up!



DON'T grow up.... A " kid " has to be allowed his toys to play with,...I would love to have your toys and " playroom " .....5000 square foot tin shed. You, sir; are very lucky to have the room and knowledge to pursue activities which make your life fulfilling. I wish you many happy days in the future. Larry

----------


## neilbourjaily

This was a job often done by the deaf. Rooms full of inotypes are stupifyingly loud. See the bubble at 2:41.

----------

cmarlow (Mar 9, 2022),

jimfols (Mar 7, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> I have one Model 31 Linotype up and running each year at the print shop at the Tri-State Engine and Threshers Assn. in Bird City, KS. That show always begins on the last Thursday of July and the following Friday and Saturday........snipped....... I still don't know what I want to be when I grow UP!



Solution; save growing up for later! W-aaaay later.
Practically neighbors, ignoring that desolate Sahara-like transit known as Kansas, any farther it'd be Colorado, (sometimes a desolate Himalayan-like transit, free nose bleed and popped ears included). 
Ahhh, so many things travel posters omit. 
But haven't hit any antique power shows in a long time. That might be a good long weekend, with lead time known. Road trips shorten with streamed internet.
Thanks! 

https://www.google.com/search?client...ird+City%2C+KS.

----------


## Floradawg

> Although I am not sure where the town is to which you referred, but NW Louisiana is where I am originally from as well.



My wife is from Slidell. I love Louisiana.

----------


## Floradawg

I have heard several ideas where the phrase "mind your p's and q's" comes from but I think it has to be from setting type.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Mar 10, 2022)

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

We hot metal compositors avoid using the "LEAD" word. 
Everyone goes "we're all gonna die" because there is so much misinformation about lead poisoning.

LEAD IS NOT POISONOUS! 

Lead oxide is poisonous. Lead oxide, basically lead "rust" was used in paints, lubricants and other uses.

Molten Linotype metal, which is normally run at 535- 550 degrees max, is also safe as to the fumes. The fumes from the molten metal are not toxic until at least 1100 degrees. 

I "set type" on one of my Linotypes 6-7 days a week, so I had a test for lead in my body and I tested in the "unexposed" range.

I think you could keep a Linotype slug in your mouth like a toothpick if you want to for the rest of your life without harm, though I can't fathom why you would want to.

----------

baja (Mar 13, 2022),

bruce.desertrat (Mar 10, 2022),

Floradawg (Mar 10, 2022),

jimfols (Mar 9, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 10, 2022)

----------


## Floradawg

> We hot metal compositors avoid using the "LEAD" word. 
> Everyone goes "we're all gonna die" because there is so much misinformation about lead poisoning.
> 
> LEAD IS NOT POISONOUS! 
> 
> Lead oxide is poisonous. Lead oxide, basically lead "rust" was used in paints, lubricants and other uses.
> 
> Molten Linotype metal, which is normally run at 535- 550 degrees max, is also safe as to the fumes. The fumes from the molten metal are not toxic until at least 1100 degrees. 
> 
> ...



Linotype makes good cast bullets but apparently is in short supply these days.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Mar 10, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Linotype can be alloyed from pure lead, but those elements aren't high in retail availability. I'm down to my last couple hundred pounds of ingots. About half is old wheel-weights, which new material aren't castable anymore.
Anyone ever notice the backward letter 'N' in some Lyman molds?

----------


## bruce.desertrat

This times 1000. 

Lead poisoning in humans is due to lead oxides in paint and tetraethyl lead in gasoline. (modern occupational health practice was basically founded by a woman who took up the cause of lead paint workers in the 30's). https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/e...ehamilton.html )

Mercury is pretty much only toxic when in compounds like methyl mercury https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease because it can be taken up by our cells. We don't actually metabolize elemmental lead or mercury very well. (still does' mean I'll breathe in molten lead fumes or drink elemental mercury
:-) 

Toxin concentration increases up the food chain, so being on top...is bad. Hence DDT killing top predators because it gets into the algae eaten by little fish, which get eaten by the bigger fish, which get eaten by the bigger fish which get eaten by the Bald eagles.

And of us older than 26 (leaded gasoline was banned in '96) have been exposed to enough teratethyl lead to demonstrably affect our cognitive functions to some extent. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...tudy-rcna19028

And yes, that includes me. It's a sobering through. Generation Lead is a real thing, and it'a not just poor kids in ghettos.

----------

baja (Mar 13, 2022),

cmarlow (Mar 11, 2022),

jimfols (Mar 10, 2022)

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

So many terms come from printing. 

Mind your p's and q's is only one, meant to tell the "printer's Devils" (apprentices) to be careful because the type is in mirror image. 
Apprentices began by distributing the individual used pieces of type into the case (the compartmental drawers holding the individual letters, numbers, punctuation, spaces, etc)into their proper places so the typesetters never had to look at each pieces while setting the type. 

Upper Case and Lower Case were the cases in newspaper cases holding the "capital letters" in the upper case and the "inferior letters" in the lower case. There were many styles of cases for job printing uses, but the news cases, holding many "fonts" of type were separated into the upper and lower cases.

"Cut to the chase" come from tearing down a printing form in a rectangular frame called a chase. 

"To coin a phrase" comes from the various types of QUOINs, expanding clamping devices, used to lock the type into the chase. They're spelled QUOIN but pronounced COIN. 

FONT, for that matter, is misused these days. They are using FONT instead of TYPEFACE. Technically, a font is a particular number of type pieces of each letter or figure of one size and weight of a singular type face, those numbers relatively small but type was purchased in those numbers and usually more than one font was required to fill a case with sufficient pieces of each character to set a job. Printers are fighting a losing battle on that one :-(

"Making a good impression" probably comes from printing but that's conjecture on my part.

----------

jimfols (Mar 11, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 11, 2022)

----------


## 12bolts

Not disputing this Bruce,



> ...And of us older than 26 (leaded gasoline was banned in '96) have been exposed to enough teratethyl lead to demonstrably affect our cognitive functions to some extent...



But surely location would have some bearing also? Those growing up in big cities as opposed to country towns? Even 3rd world places where pollution controls are markedly less, against me, (at least) growing up in rural Australia, with some very progressive controls in place and zero smog to live with.
Phil

----------

Toolmaker51 (Mar 11, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

'Font' also is the correct term for letters/ figures used in manual pantograph/ drag engravers. Each letter, number (many punctuation marks are combined) is a brass plate, cut as a ball nose endmill would, into the surface. That is what's guiding the stylus. They range in size, IIRC in pica graduations, pantograph arms adjusted desired size further by ratios. I'm sure they could be had in various languages and styles; only familiar with that resembling Arial, Times Roman, Old English.
Illustrated here on the left.



Illustrated on the right;
Another device, best known is the 'Leroy', worked nearly same way, but all the figures on a single plastic plate. They were used in drafting too, especially final inked sheets meant for lots of handling, or to be retained indefinitely. I bought an old patent application from 1948-1950; they are inked, sharp as day they were completed.

----------


## bruce.desertrat

> Not disputing this Bruce,But surely location would have some bearing also? Those growing up in big cities as opposed to country towns? Even 3rd world places where pollution controls are markedly less, against me, (at least) growing up in rural Australia, with some very progressive controls in place and zero smog to live with.
> Phil




Individual exposures vary; I was speaking more on the epidemiological usage of 'us'. but the vast majority of people were exposed to decades of lead to some degree or another, and the 'safe' dose is very very low. 

Folks in the suburbs weren't living in the big cities, but they certainly were driving everywhere. And pollution controls like catalytic converters, etc were aimed at smog-producing emissions like nitrogen oxides; tetra-ethyl lead got mostly burned to lead oxides and went out the tailpipe as fine particulates. If you lived your whole life out in the boonies, you definitely got a lower dose, but if you lived around a gasoline powered vehicle. you got some. 

The sad and infuriating thing was _this was known from the beginning._  https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...ted-180961368/ 

Ethanol works _better_ than TEL to raise octane.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> The sad and infuriating thing was _this was known from the beginning._  https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...ted-180961368/



Well, I'm sure their excuse was "Follow The Science", and turns out they publish excerpts and findings tuned to bolster certain targeted minds. 
One side only has a goal; the other follows an agenda.

----------


## cmarlow

> (clipped) We don't actually metabolize elemmental lead or mercury very well. (still does' mean I'll breathe in molten lead fumes or drink elemental mercury
> :-) 
> ..... ....
> And of us older than 26 (leaded gasoline was banned in '96) have been exposed to enough teratethyl lead to demonstrably affect our cognitive functions to some extent. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...tudy-rcna19028
> 
> And yes, that includes me. It's a sobering through. Generation Lead is a real thing, and it'a not just poor kids in ghettos.



Unfortunately all metals "rust" so a block of lead will always have some oxides on it, and mercury metal converts to the more toxic form in nature by the action of bacteria.

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

Font is also used for Linotype/Intertype, Ludlow and other matrices used in linecasting or type casting equipment as well. Still, the fixed quantity of a particular typeface, weight and size pretty much applies.

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

Yes, it's interesting because the house I grew up in still is fed with a lead water pipe from the street mains and we suffered no ill effects from that. When the city came around and installed water meters on old houses that had been on a flat rate, I thought they would have a fit when they ran across that lead line. Nope, they had adapters to fit and never said a word. Recently the city has begun a program to replace all those old lead lines and apparently there are a lot of them still in use, more than I had imagined.

As I previously said about my daily exposure to Linotype, Ludlow and lead based type didn't show any lead in my system, but my father had elevated levels of lead from his jewelry store being on a main business avenue during the leaded gasoline era. Lead eventually "chelates", I believe is the term, out of the body unlike asbestos and some other toxins.

----------


## Toolmaker51

And of us older than 26 (leaded gasoline was banned in '96) have been *exposed to enough teratethyl lead to demonstrably affect our cognitive functions to some extent* https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...tudy-rcna19028[/QOUTE]

Followed the science. Thought I discovered source of feeble politicians!




> ............snip........ *Lead eventually "chelates", I believe is the term, out of the body* unlike asbestos and some other toxins.



Darn it all, there goes hypothesis.

----------


## Frank S

> And of us older than 26 (leaded gasoline was banned in '96) have been *exposed to enough teratethyl lead to demonstrably affect our cognitive functions to some extent* https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...tudy-rcna19028[/QOUTE]
> 
> Followed the science. Thought I discovered source of feeble politicians!
> 
> 
> 
> Darn it all, there goes hypothesis.



The line of thinking that feeble Politian's were at one time exposed to excessive amounts of teratethyl lead as to the root cause of their failing cognitive abilities
Would be to suggest at one time they may have been gearheads. Being somewhat of an older gearhead myself I know quite a few who are much older than I am, and like me most will profoundly acknowledge using leaded gasoline as their go to cleanser for all their mechanic work back in the day. So far as I know not very many career Politian's even know the difference between a screw driver and a pair of plier

----------


## Jon

Workers lower a lifting device onto a 100-inch telescope mirror. Mount Wilson Observatory. California, 1935.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Mar 18, 2022)

----------


## techcollect

There are a few places (museums) that have kept various lead typesetters functional for demonstration purposes.
I was recently in a up-cycle store that had an actual full type font storage cabinet (no type) the ones in large newspapers like this would have been had to be serviced with a rolling ladder.

Over the past 5 decades, many font job case drawers where scrapped and many of the 2" deep drawers were turned into wall mounted what-not displays.

The cases holding the drawers are categorized by font, size and upper and lower case letters. (upper case was on top, lower case on bottom.)
You might imagine how many pieces were needed for a large edition newspaper.
Linotype machines were extremely complex machines and had an enormous network of parts once described 
to me by a former newspaper typesetter as "a manual typewriter met a concert organ". 

One of the downsides was working long-term with molten lead and it's fumes.

The dreaded fail of a typesetter was 'pieing'. 
The machine had a metal framed 'chase' which the metal mirror reversed type was placed in to have molten lead form the casting to mount in the printing press. Once the type was in place, it was locked into the chase with quoin locks which placed lateral pressure to the chase sides.
There is no bottom. After the chase was full, it was locked and removed from the machine.
If the type is not locked well or if one piece is askew, the entire set can be lost due to 'Pieing'. All of the metal hits the floor in thousands of pieces which have to be swept up, dusted off and re-cased into the correct font drawers and the typesetter starting over at the first letter.

The were a few makers of equipment, Merganthaler being the maker of 'Lino-Type' equipment and was market dominant.
Another was Monotype. Monotype is still in business and largely produces intellectual property licensed as computer type fonts.
Monotype bought out the Linotype catalog of fonts.
Merganthaler proceeded into the early computer typesetting era and saw the transformation of most new typesetters were women.
Merganthaler was purchased by and became a division of Heidelberg (printing press manufacturer.

Another common, smaller machine was made by Ludlow. They made smaller units that cast lead into type set by hand. 
These were single type line machines known as 'Headliners' and typically used for very large font sizes above 24 point type.

There are still shops turning out work on Ludlow machines for custom work. (expensive work)

----------

bruce.desertrat (Mar 14, 2022),

jimfols (Mar 14, 2022),

Jon (Mar 14, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 14, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Mesta Machine Company foundry workers.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Mar 20, 2022),

old_toolmaker (Mar 20, 2022)

----------


## bruce.desertrat

That is a heck of a complex casting.

----------


## marksbug

Ive often wondered in old pics like this so disorginized everything juts how many relatively new guys are walking around wondering wft am I supposed to be doing??

----------


## jimfols

Ive often wondered in old pics like this so disorginized everything juts how many relatively new guys are walking around wondering wft am I supposed to be doing?? 

By the looks of that shop, there are prolly a lot of old guys wondering the same thing.

----------

marksbug (Mar 20, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

hmm I might need to reorganize my shop... again. and just think,I thought it was a motivation issue... :Rimshot:

----------


## Toolmaker51

MESTA, again. Endless trove of historical material. Often wonder who ranked *1 of the world's biggest foundries.

----------


## Frank S

I think some of what we are seeing in many of these pics is the workers wondering WTH is that guy with a camera doing in the shop

----------


## marksbug

a more likeley thought would be." **** I hope that wasn't the last casting order"

----------


## Duke_of_URL

Whatever you do, don't show up to work without your favorite hat.  :Smile:

----------


## funforall 69

:Head Scratch: This picture was taken just before the company's " keep your work area clean " safety meeting.....

----------


## Jon

Workers assemble Browning-Inglis Hi-Power pistols at the John Inglis munitions plant. Toronto, Canada, 1944.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Mar 29, 2022),

jimfols (Mar 27, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Mar 27, 2022)

----------


## jimfols

I like girls and guns.

----------

baja (Apr 3, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

biguns!! :Clapping:

----------


## Jon

Japanese fire brigade. 1890s.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg

----------

Andyt (Apr 4, 2022),

jimfols (Apr 3, 2022),

old_toolmaker (Apr 3, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

that must be before the chineese fire drills.

----------

jimfols (Apr 3, 2022)

----------


## old_toolmaker

Ladders to nowhere?
Or is this just practice?

----------


## Floradawg

> Ladders to nowhere?
> Or is this just practice?



Could be some sort of competition between fire companies. That sort of thing used to occasionally come on tv on Saturdays. They would engage in different drills related to firefighting. I remember one team was called The Patchogue 40 Thieves. It may still come on but I don't watch much tv anymore.

----------


## marksbug

fire in the sky.

----------


## jimfols

> Japanese fire brigade. 1890s.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...e_fullsize.jpg



LaughingOutLoud (LOL was too short)This was meant or Marksbug .

----------

marksbug (Apr 3, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

land of the rising sun....and they want to put it out? :Head Scratch:

----------


## Jon

Roll shop crew. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation. 1908.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Apr 10, 2022),

Mazay (Apr 12, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 10, 2022)

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

Taken with flash powder?

----------


## gatz

Worker, President, Vice Pres, Shop Manager, Worker

----------

jimfols (Apr 10, 2022),

Mazay (Apr 12, 2022),

Ralphxyz (Apr 10, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

so..witch one is flash and witch is powder? or is that him on the end looking like a munchkin on stilts.

----------


## marksbug

now back to our regular program, things were done a lot different back then.

----------


## Jon

Work crew erecting an oil drill rig. Shinnston, West Virginia.

----------

clydeman (Apr 23, 2022),

jimfols (Apr 17, 2022),

mwmkravchenko (Apr 18, 2022),

nova_robotics (Apr 18, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 17, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Think any machinery, compressed air, or welding equipment nearby? Frame members light enough to repeatedly hoist by hand, nothing but a bag of nuts and bolts. I'd bet the successive stages are numbered in chalk.
It would take a bit of planning, staging and accurate trigonometry to produce a 'smooth' tower.

----------


## cmarlow

Yes, but after the second lift of staging the angles do not change and all the triangles reduce at the same rate.

----------


## marksbug

wow, those guys have quite a erection going on.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Yes, but after the second lift of staging the angles do not change and all the triangles reduce at the same rate.



Perfectly true, but the dimensions, layout and placement do. Without means aloft to modify, isn't there is some degree of challenge?

----------

old_toolmaker (Apr 17, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

well if your building it in whooville placement dont matter. but in the land of oz the horazontle parts all get progressively shorter for each stage. not hard just bundle each section at the cutten/welden shop so each floor stays togeather.and only let goober open 1 section at a time...might want to number the stages so goober dont open them in the rong order...thats if goober can count.and he has all his toes.

----------


## Toolmaker51

I count 3 goobers; that means trouble without one in charge. 
Can hardly walk a step without finding a funny reference within here; and 3 voters have a tie....

----------

marksbug (Apr 18, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

yup that one cat be toped,Im with you guys too.

----------


## mwmkravchenko

I built a full scale wooden one of these with an other guy in the National Museum in Hull across the Ottawa River from .. Ottawa.

45 feet up is a little interesting when you are working on a inward sloping tower like this. So is cutting the top pieces by hand saw. We held onto each other. No fear of heights until we were sawing off the last pieces and it dawns on you that you got nothing to hold on to. I don't even know if it is still in there. That was in 1997.

----------

cmarlow (Apr 18, 2022),

jimfols (Apr 19, 2022)

----------


## cmarlow

It is like system scaffolding. All of the tubes are precut and fit into manufactured couplings. The last thing you want is anybody doing "field modifications" because that would just mean the destruction of the set.

----------

mwmkravchenko (Apr 18, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

hand me that saw this one is too short

----------

cmarlow (Apr 18, 2022),

mwmkravchenko (Apr 18, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Gorenflo Canning Company workers. Biloxi, Mississippi. March, 1911.




> View of the Gorenflo Canning Co., Biloxi, Miss., taken at 7 A.M. Many tiny workers here, some of whom began to arrive at the factory as early as 5 o'clock, an hour before they were allowed to begin work, and long before daylight on a damp-foggy day. The whistle had blown and they came and stood around merely to hold their places. When the "catch" has been good, they begin work early, but today it was not good so they were waiting for daylight. In this group I ascertained the ages of a few, as follows, 1 child of 6 years, 1 of 7, 2 of 8, 1 of 10 and there were many more. See report also. Location: Biloxi, Mississippi.



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Apr 24, 2022),

marksbug (Apr 24, 2022),

nova_robotics (Apr 30, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

I went through there last summer. mostly just gambling now. still some fishen/shrimpen boats, but nutten like it was back them . Can you imagine the stink in that place?? I see one black woman wearing a mask.

----------


## Toolmaker51

I doubt masks of that period were any more effective withholding odor than current masks and one particular micro-organism. 
What _has improved_ though, the sales pitch. Sufficiently thorough enough to convince some folks are now safe within their own car! But they'll stand 6' behind another imagining the same bubble? I've asked a few, 'Which one works?' More often than not, the deer-in-the-headlights expression is next.

I'll add this. Anytime a declaration this or that makes user *'Safe'*, I find instantly suspicious. *"Safe"* does not exist. 
"Safety" itself, not far behind.
Only *"Safer"* has _potential_ effect.

----------


## the harmonious blacksmith

Today they won't even let kids have a paper route. So many successful businessmen (and women) got their start in business with a paper route learning to show up, get the route done in time, and, unfortunately, dealing with customers who don't pay readily. Now I can't get reliable paper delivery at all.

----------


## hemmjo

Note the kid in the foreground, at the near end of the table on the right. He sure has a big smile on his face!!!

Unfortunately, like blacksmiths and canneries, many newspapers are closing up shop. I remember when I was a little kid, back in the 50's, walking with my dad, by the blacksmith's shop in a tiny town where my great grandparents lived. They were "really old" like around 50!!!!! I have an anvil from my great grandpa's little barn in my shop. 

As of 2019 about  20% of newspapers have closed up.
Just like loosing blacksmiths, loosing newspapers is not a good thing. Now, even if we do have access to a newspaper, they still get their much of the news they prints from the internet.

----------


## marksbug

our local newpaper moved about 80 miles away to another town,in other words they closed most of it and downsized the last time I saw one of those papers it was about 10 pages and aboyt 4 inches smaller. 15 years ago I buddy of mine with a automotive/machine shop got the job of reworking some of the machines so they could print on much thinner/cheeper paper.. I reckon it wasent thin enough so they moved...or out sorced.or sold out. I used to work on the owners 34' Scrab boat to make it and keep it faster than hos buddies( witch I also did). he was a great guy,he dies about 18 years back before all the downsizeing changes came into play in the printworks. I miss doing that kind of work. my mm once said they wanted more for thier online services than the printed paper....and the obits were only on line..how am I to know when I die? :Confused:  :Head Scratch:

----------


## hemmjo

> snip.....how am I to know when I die?



Either the "Fire and Brimstone" or the "Pearly Gates" will be your first clue.  :Smile:

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Either the "Fire and Brimstone" or the "Pearly Gates" will be your first clue.



"Honey Do", snipped for poetic license

Well I dreamed I died
And went up to heaven
No more weedin', mashin' and shovelin'
I'm standing in line at the old Pearly Gates
Up steps the woman
And hands me a rake

John Fogerty, Deja Vu (All Over Again) 2004

----------


## Frank S

You might enjoy reading something I wrote many years ago so I posted it
here Shop Truths, Phrases, Tales; and Outright Lies

----------

Toolmaker51 (Apr 25, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

hmm I was hoping there was a nice brimstone wall& fireplace adjacent to the pearly gates to hold up said pearly gates in the waiting area when there is a long line from a disaster or somethen.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> hmm I was hoping there was a nice brimstone wall& fireplace adjacent to the pearly gates to hold up said pearly gates in the waiting area when there is a long line from a disaster or somethen.



Nope. I'll require only a kennel, holding all my past dogs. That insures social aspect falls right into place  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Toolmaker51

> You might enjoy reading something I wrote many years ago so I posted it
> here Shop Truths, Phrases, Tales; and Outright Lies



Can't think of a better place to post that!

----------

Frank S (Apr 25, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Clerks calculating benefits for World War I veterans. Computing Division. Washington, D.C. 1924.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmt-forum/calculating_wwi_soldier_benefits_workers.jpg

----------

jimfols (May 1, 2022),

old_toolmaker (May 1, 2022)

----------


## IntheGroove

That's a lot of hats...

----------


## hemmjo

All of those computers working diligently.

----------


## jimfols

And bumbershoots.

----------


## jimfols

Clerks calculating benefits for World War I veterans. Computing Division. Washington, D.C. 1924

Couple of dudes in there. I'd want and escort to my car after work.

----------


## gatz

The lady in front might be mistakenly tossing her out-basket documents into her File 13.
Some vets may not be getting their due benefits......nothing new there.

----------


## mansworld

Comfortable shoes before the painful high heels.

----------


## marksbug

skeered you might get caculated?

----------


## Jon

Hot rolled seamless tube workers. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation Seamless Tube Department. Aliquippa, Pennsylvania. 1942.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

marksbug (May 8, 2022),

mwmkravchenko (May 8, 2022),

nova_robotics (May 13, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

I saw a very old seamless tube machine under one of the DaVinci museeums in Milan italy. they just left the machine shop there in the dirt and built over it many stories tall.also a ancient wishing well with many old coins still there..and oh somuch more.wire manufacturing,sizing ,stretching etc,big chevron gears.I loved it.

----------

mwmkravchenko (May 8, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Workers bring sphagnum moss from an Oregon forest to Portland, to use as wound dressings in WWI.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...g_fullsize.jpg

----------

baja (May 22, 2022),

durrelltn (May 21, 2022),

jimfols (May 15, 2022),

marksbug (May 15, 2022),

nova_robotics (May 16, 2022),

old_toolmaker (May 15, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

behind the seen hero's. (horse too)

----------


## old_toolmaker

I have read about using peat moss as a wound dressing. Used extensively by Native Americans. Maybe to this day!

----------


## Jon

Shoe factory cutting room. Brockton, Massachusetts. 1908.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (May 22, 2022)

----------


## jimfols

Shoe factory cutting room. Brockton, Massachusetts. 1908.

i always appreciate a well made and well fitting pair of boots or shoes.

----------


## Jon

Loading bricks in the masonry shop. Homestead Steel Works. Homestead, Pennsylvania. May, 1945.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...p_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (May 29, 2022),

old_toolmaker (May 29, 2022)

----------


## jimfols

When I first saw the photo I thought of Government Cheese from the early 80s.

----------


## IntheGroove

The Government is sitting on 1.4 billion pounds of cheese...

----------


## 12bolts

> The Government is sitting on 1.4 billion pounds of cheese...



Begs the question. Why?

----------


## old_toolmaker

Appears to be a lot of manual labor like most operations during that era. Little to no automation.

----------


## IntheGroove

Two bricks at a time...

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Appears to be a lot of manual labor like most operations during that era. Little to no automation.



Being 1945, some of those will be discharged servicepeople. Just prior to this, sufficient production to supply the entire free world. Compared with more recent times, quality control was in hand, at the production level, not surplus levels of management. The work ethic and experience fueled the economy decades beyond, also creating a few new companies. All that equates into a portion of job satisfaction.

----------


## Jon

1913 Ford Motor Company assembly line workers.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Jun 5, 2022)

----------


## Ralphxyz

Are they dropping the body onto the frame?

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Are they dropping the body onto the frame?



Yes, at rear there are chassis that might not have hoods yet either. What a great solution; finish body upstairs, trundle them outside, feed down a ramp; mate to frame via the spindliest gantry on earth.

----------


## IntheGroove

All of that and no fuel pump...

----------


## hemmjo

HA my dad used to tell stories about having to back up hills. Miss those stories and of course my dad.

----------

IntheGroove (Jun 5, 2022),

jimfols (Jun 5, 2022),

mwmkravchenko (Jun 7, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Backing on hills also took advantage of reverse being a lower ratio. In Signal Hill (~ Long Beach), CA there used to be an event for this, a Model T Hill Climb. 
It's thought of as only one like it in the US. There's plenty of onlookers, local news coverage, and repeat participants. There is one specific hill but several that approach from different routes.
Driving a regular car on it, either direction, is not enjoyable for the faint of heart. With motorcycles being gravity fed, I avoided climbing some of them, definitely. Something about lower gears, higher RPM's, and a paper medicine cup sized float bowl.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sign...client=gws-wiz

----------


## Toolmaker51

> All of that and no fuel pump...



They were ordered along with color of the paint job...

----------


## IntheGroove

From the web:

During the early stages of the Model T production, the car was available in almost any colour, except black. In fact the very first model came in red. Later models of the Ford Model T came with a variety of colours such as green, bright red, dark blue, maroon, brown, grey and of course black.

The car was only offered in black from 1914-1925, however before and after that various models of the vehicle could be purchased in a variety of colors including blue, red, grey, and green.

From 1908 to 1914, Model T Fords were painted in a variety of 4 to 5 available colors. All colors of were of darker shades. Interestingly enough, black was not offered as a color initially. However, from 1914 to 1926, all Model T Fords were indeed painted black.

----------


## Toolmaker51

I stand corrected. Obviously, I know little about old Fords. 

I know however, not thrilled with the Ford I have now, that is certain.

----------


## IntheGroove

FoundOnRoadDead...

----------


## tedg53

I read that when Henry was ramping up production in order to lower finished cost it was learned that black dried faster than other colors.

----------


## hemmjo

That and you do not have to take time to with colors. Do not have to match fenders to bodies, etc. Just paint everything the same color.... He was obsessed with making them as quickly as possible. Not a bad thing at the time, but it did have its drawbacks.

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

Fix Or Repair Daily  :Lol:

----------


## TrickieDickie

First On Race Day !

----------

jimfols (Jun 6, 2022)

----------


## mdhatter3

Flattened out reworked dodge, found old rusted derilict. Is that the old plant here in Buffalo? Now called TriMain center. Letters spelling Ford are still showing on chimney.

----------


## IntheGroove

:Lol:

----------

baja (Jun 12, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 6, 2022)

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

F***ed Over Rebuilt Dodge - Filling Our Rural Dumps

----------


## Rikk

Just keep hating boys...

My '96 still looks pretty damn good. So does my neighbor's '78. Both original right down to the paint. 

AND... Ford never took a penny of government bailout money...

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

> Just keep hating boys...
> 
> My '96 still looks pretty damn good. So does my neighbor's '78. Both original right down to the paint. 
> 
> AND... Ford never took a penny of government bailout money...



Just a little fun, no hatred  :Lol: 

I'm sure there are many Chevy and Mopar haters out there too! I will say post 1980's trucks were pretty stout, I just wouldn't give you 5c for one their cars or SUVs...

----------


## Rikk

> Just a little fun, no hatred 
> 
> I'm sure there are many Chevy and Mopar haters out there too! I will say post 1980's trucks were pretty stout, I just wouldn't give you 5c for one their cars or SUVs...



I get it, just getting in on the fun.  :Smile:  

I've owned all of them over the years, just happened to end up with Fords and had great luck with them. My previous was a 97 F150 that I bought with 34K on it and sold it years later with 309k, still ran great. The diesel pictured above has ~306k on it now and has been trouble free. I can't remember what my neighbor's truck has on it. I think it's around 50k if I remember right. Was his grandfather's who bought it new.

----------


## Frank S

I've owned many different brands over the years both foreign and domestic Probably a couple dozen Ford trucks of all sizes including a couple semi's. As far as I can remember I have only ever own 2 Ford cars though a 641/2 Mustang and a 1970 Maveric, there were others, but I don't count flip vehicles of any of the brands. I've owned my share of GM products I can think of only 2 of those I'd like to still own, but regretted ever buying them while I owned them. The only New vehicles I ever bought were Dodge or Chryslers though, save for the 1972 Vette. During my stupidity years of got to go fast it was always Dodge, not even the Vette with its 454 could hold a candle to some of my Dodges. One funny thing is of all the engines I've worked on or tweaked into being more than they should have been the only V8 firing order I can remember happens to be 18436572. There will be 2 brand enthusiast who will recognize that number

----------


## Rikk

> ...happens to be 18436572. There will be 2 brand enthusiast who will recognize that number



I remember that one too, all of our circle track cars are and always have been SBC. I still remember to always double check 5 & 7 as they are easily mixed up when you are in a hurry. 

Never knew about the other engine that shared it, had to look it up. Interesting.

----------


## schuylergrace

> ... Ford never took a penny of government bailout money...



But Ford actually did get bailout money. They went, along with Chrysler and GM, to Congress to request $35 billion. Ultimately, Chrysler ($4 billion) and GM (over $13 billion) got funding through TARP, while Ford got theirs--almost $6 billion--through TALF. GM and Ford also went back later and received $30 billion between them to shore-up their credit operations. There were strings attached to all these disbursements--getting rid of corporate jets, company heads cutting their pay to $1.00 per year, and streamlining the array of products they offered--and Ford agreed specifically to improving its corporate fuel economy by investing in more efficient combustion engines and electric vehicles. Some people think that hurt Ford in the long run, but it put them in the lead among the Big Three U.S. automakers when it comes to high-efficiency vehicles, which are becoming more and more popular.

----------


## Toolmaker51

I learned 18374526 ..18473625 ....... :Frown:  18527364 .............. :Headshake:  1867532..4?................ :Mad:  
So I started over, with the lawnmower, graduated to Harley, got my AA with 3 cyl Lister Petter, without a VW 4 or Fiat 5 available; made serious MBA jump with a slant 6 Dodge......... Wouldn't be doing aircraft 7 or 9 cylinder radials or Ferrari's, yet always gnawing at me this divulgence of our murky past would surface eventually. 

Actually, I caught the 18436572 bug in our drive way, failure meant missed date. Classroom and laboratory, the engine compartment of new to me '57 283. Conducted intense gain of function research centered on distributor replacement. The jab; after walking 4 miles for a long enough flat-blade screwdriver to clock the oil pump shaft. 
As years went by, found that pattern is not exactly rare, it's numbering sequence of the block. 
I used to part off tops of used distributor caps for buddies, appreciating view of the rotor while setting valve lash. Still have one left, for 235 straight 6. 
Seemed most of us were GM fans, but just helped a Ford'er Sunday, 1700 miles away. While he's thrashing a Y block, by text and camera phone pics. We thought out loud same instant, "Who'd of thought such a conglomeration of situations might one day coincide?" 

The CA auto culture is visible here (Mid West) too, at roughly same population ratio. Not 'tuners', or showroom ready-mades; I mean car and bike _builders._ Salina, KS, said to be highest concentration. Somewhere in Nebraska there's a legitimate circuit on country roads, cordoned off for the event. 
Why not, if it works F1 in Italian cities and Long Beach CA Gran Prix... 
Found it! I'd build a mid-engine Factory5 around all aluminum Buick first... https://sorcrace.com/ 
There's another on rural roads, straightaways and mostly 90° turns, meaning FLAT 90°'s with a drainage ditch, narrow gravel shoulders, no berms or curbs. Reckon Shelby roadster patterns could do that; you know 0-100-0 in a quarter mile.

----------

Rikk (Jun 7, 2022)

----------


## jimfols

18436572
15426378

The SBC fires the same as my FE Ford. Just the cylinders are numbered differently.

----------


## Jon

Line shaft driven factory and workers. Brazil, 1880.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...y_fullsize.jpg

----------


## neilbourjaily

Just about the right height when one of those flat belts comes off, to take a man's shoulder off. The first orange packing house I worked, had a flat belt driven belt-and-roll sizer. We had belts everywhere and the equipment to stitch them. Even in modern tech, ca 1975, it was a bear to keep them adjusted.

----------

mwmkravchenko (Jun 13, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Unsure what is in lower left, other than big gears. Driving what, don't know. But definitely a line of vertical boring mills, into the distance.

----------

mwmkravchenko (Jun 13, 2022)

----------


## Frank S

> Unsure what is in lower left, other than big gears. Driving what, don't know. But definitely a line of vertical boring mills, into the distance.



If you look close at the pair of big gears facing each other you will see they have T slots on their face. and what looks like turned flange rings laying around them and mounted on 1 of them. Maybe set up to turn out mating flanges and 1 guy can watch both operations going on at the same time.

----------

mwmkravchenko (Jun 13, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> If you look close at the pair of big gears facing each other you will see they have T slots on their face. and what looks like turned flange rings laying around them and mounted on 1 of them. Maybe set up to turn out mating flanges and 1 guy can watch both operations going on at the same time.



Oh of course! It's a rail shop. 
Not gears, they are faceplates, a locomotive wheel visible toward viewer; possibly turning mounted wheels. 
To busy critiquing bad lighting, forgot good parts of photograph. 
Still cone-drive, running a jack shaft, to get realistic RPM. The final drive is teeth on face plate. Begs the question, how big a vertical shaper cut those teeth? This _could be_ still half a generation before large mills.

----------

mwmkravchenko (Jun 13, 2022)

----------


## Frank S

> Oh of course! It's a rail shop. 
> Not gears, they are faceplates, a locomotive wheel visible toward viewer; possibly turning mounted wheels. 
> To busy critiquing bad lighting, forgot good parts of photograph. 
> Still cone-drive, running a jack shaft, to get realistic RPM. The final drive is teeth on face plate. Begs the question, how big a vertical shaper cut those teeth? This _could be_ still half a generation before large mills.



Yes and the large diameter of the faceplates were to accommodate the drive wheels of the big steam locomotives

----------

mwmkravchenko (Jun 13, 2022),

old_toolmaker (Jun 19, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Strength testing at Alcoa Aluminum Research Laboratory. 1955-1965.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...b_fullsize.jpg

----------

carloski (Jun 21, 2022),

jimfols (Jun 19, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Tensile or compressive? Crankshaft to the right not much of a clue. But that's a heck of a Tinius-Olsen.

----------


## mr mikey

It passes the test when the guy on top hits his head on the ceiling and the part isn't bent. ouch. The good old days. Mr Mikey.

----------

Frank S (Jun 21, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Short Sunderland aircraft construction workers. Rochester, Kent, England.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Jun 26, 2022),

marksbug (Jun 26, 2022),

nova_robotics (Jun 27, 2022),

Rangi (Jul 3, 2022),

Sleykin (Jul 4, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Jun 26, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Not just aircraft, that's fuselage of a bomber sized flying boat, maybe even amphibious. That would take a more serious building than 'normal' aircraft! 
Yup, recognized it, as former nut on aviation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Sunderland

Far more beneficial post than a Short Sunderland workers wisecrack, as I often descend in to.

----------


## marksbug

former?: :Lol:

----------

mwmkravchenko (Jun 27, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Former as in less intense than ages 6 thru 30 something. 
Sleeping under flight deck catapults of Enterprise cured me. After a small fire (not 1969) we moved aft awhile, under the arresting gear. No improvement.

----------

mwmkravchenko (Jun 27, 2022)

----------


## mwmkravchenko

That's still a large airplane. Larger than a Hercules.

----------


## Jon

> Cpl. Albert Singer (Left); T/Sgt. Weldon L. Rugg, and Cpl Walter Robert (Right) fix the hatch on a Northrop P-61 "Black Widow" night fighter of the 9th Air Force, France, 27 Sep 1944



Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...k_fullsize.jpg

----------

cmarlow (Jul 3, 2022),

Duke_of_URL (Jul 5, 2022),

jimfols (Jul 3, 2022),

Ralphxyz (Jul 3, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

Don't recall such a nose-on view of a P-61; showing the fuselage is far narrower and deeper than assumed.

----------


## Frank S

> Don't recall such a nose-on view of a P-61; showing the fuselage is far narrower and deeper than assumed.



That is because you are looking at the rear gunner's position

----------


## Toolmaker51

That would explain it; even looked to be enough glass for a pilot position.

----------


## marksbug

thats too funny.

----------


## Jon

Buttermakers. Australia, 1915.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

marksbug (Jul 11, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

I can still remember churning the fresh milk at grandmaws., milken the chickens too....oops those were cows.we diped the chicken in the milk&flower befeer frying them. oh and the butter milk biscuts we made were the best Ive ever eaten...especialy with the fresh butter on them and the fresh just picked corn.

----------

mwmkravchenko (Jul 11, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

hmm I got to thinken last time I churned at grandmas was was probably around 1972 when we put inside pluming dug long long ditch for the sewer&big hole for the septic tank & put a bathroom in the house.the out house was still still there 6 years lator when granddad died& grandmaw moved to a old people home witch she loved,but missed grand dad. a Neighbor claimed he was allergic to cow ****...I think it was bull ****, but granddad had to get rid of all the cows in 72. what a crock of ****. :Smash:

----------


## Frank S

> hmm I got to thinken last time I churned at grandmas was was probably around 1972 when we put inside pluming dug long long ditch for the sewer&big hole for the septic tank & put a bathroom in the house.the out house was still still there 6 years lator when granddad died& grandmaw moved to a old people home witch she loved,but missed grand dad. a Neighbor claimed he was allergic to cow ****...I think it was bull ****, but granddad had to get rid of all the cows in 72. what a crock of ****.



Which was there first the cows or the neighbor? if the cows then my grandpa would have told the neighbor something that cannot be printed, the last words would have been something like go back to the city where you belong. If it happened to be the neighbor then gramps would have asked him, who a city feller had survived out there as long as he had.

----------


## marksbug

I don't have a clue witch came first the chicken or the cow. they were long long time. lawyers said the cows had to go...witch they did and that was the issue. I dont think there was a allergy just a asshole, but who knows..

----------


## Frank S

> I don't have a clue witch came first the chicken or the cow. they were long long time. lawyers said the cows had to go...witch they did and that was the issue. I dont think there was a allergy just a asshole, but who knows..



I had an attorney once tell me that the downfall of the USA and indeed the world would be lawyers, he said 99% of all lawyers in the world should be lined up and shot. 
I asked him are you in the 1% bracket or the 99. He just replied that he should probably be the first one shot.
If I had ever needed an attorney he would have been my first choice, any lawyer that will admit to being the scourge of the Earth has got to be good

----------

marksbug (Jul 11, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

yup and he knows what he is.

----------


## 12bolts

Unfortunately Frank, I think the current generation of 20 somethings is going to be the downfall of our world when they get old enough to get into positions of authority and power

----------


## Frank S

> Unfortunately Frank, I think the current generation of 20 somethings is going to be the downfall of our world when they get old enough to get into positions of authority and power



I wonder if at 68 I'm a little old to go back and study for a law degree so I could run for a bench appointment in hopes of curtailing some of their shenanigans

----------


## Toolmaker51

Shenanigans. We're rebranding utter chaos. I cannot comprehend why.

----------


## Frank S

> Shenanigans. We're rebranding utter chaos. I cannot comprehend why.



If the shenanigans of the individuals are discouraged, then the chaos of groups can be prevented. Should have been done at the parental level long before preschool age and continued throughout the formulative years.
Reminds me of something I read recently, 2 very young boys about the age of 4 decided it was time for them to try their hand at using curse words, the mother asked Tommy what he wanted for breakfast, Aw, H**l mom I think I'll just have a damned bowl of Cheerios. 'SMAK'. Johney what would you like for breakfast? Sh*t Mom! You can bet your A** it won't be none of those damned Cheerios.

----------

baja (Jul 12, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 12, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

I heard it was Muesli.

----------


## IntheGroove

Reminds me of the story where Johnny's father tells him to fetch a switch...

----------


## Jon

Engineers and metallurgists inspecting the cap for the top of the Washington Monument. 1884.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

Miloslav (Jul 19, 2022),

nova_robotics (Jul 18, 2022)

----------


## mwmkravchenko

When aluminum was the rarest of metals on the earth.

----------

nova_robotics (Jul 18, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> When aluminum was the rarest of metals on the earth.



I was just going to look "what metal is it?" up........

----------


## jimfols

Engineers and metallurgists inspecting the cap for the top of the Washington Monument. 1884.

I can hardly wait for 'them' to try making aluminum with wind or solar power.

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Engineers and metallurgists inspecting the cap for the top of the Washington Monument. 1884.
> 
> I can hardly wait for 'them' to try making aluminum with wind or solar power.



"...it comes from the building!"
Sure it does.



Edited, to note correction/ amplification offered next by hemmjo, stating "_This video is from a documentary created by Michael Moore. I am even LESS a fan of Michael Moore. He is notorious for spinning things to his point of view. He edits clips to distort facts._"

----------


## hemmjo

I am not a fan of Electric Cars for many reasons. Someday, but not now.

This video is from a documentary created by Michael Moore. I am even LESS a fan of Michael Moore. He is notorious for spinning things to his point of view. He edits clips to distort facts. This clips is from around 2010. It was not GM that said 95% of the electric for EV's come from coal. It was executive of the Lansing Board of Water & Light.

There is so much miss information spread around it makes it too easy for people to disprove statements made in defense of some cause. Saying that GM said the EV is charged with 95% coal is false. That appears to make the whole video false, and therefore one would assume the EV's are not that bad. We need to give REAL, truthful arguments for bad ideas, not arguments that are so easily refuted.

 I believe this is very good.

----------

schuylergrace (Jul 18, 2022)

----------


## Frank S

An old saying coined mostly by science fiction writers goes like this "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch". I find that saying to hold true in every aspect of what we do in our daily lives. Just like over unity, from what we know of physics in our little spectrum of knowledge of the universe you cannot get something from nothing nor can you create more of anything out of less than what is already there. 
BEVs are being touted as the end all saving grace of vehicles, but nothing could be further than the truth than the purposeful omission of the cost of energy to produce them, the added strain on natural recourses to produce them. 
Hybrids are as has been mentioned probably the better of the 2 worlds. However, from a purely economic means of going to town and back. If for instance you don't need anything more than transportation if you had a duel chargeable Hybrid or even a BEV that you could plug in to recharge the battery when it is parked at your home from solar panels instead of being charged from the grid once the initial cost outlay was covered from miles driven not having to pay the utility company for your electricity you would realize at net savings of cash, Driving the duel chargeable hybrid sensibly you might not even have to run the engine very much at all.
But none of anyof this will do a thing to save the planet as they like to say, unless you maintain and keep the vehicle for its full life cycle. This trading for new every year or even every 5 years will do nothing but continue the cycle of waste.
I bet my 30-year-old diesel pickup that gets around 20 MPG is as green if not greener than most vehicles sold within the past 5 years will ever be if they are not kept on the road for at least 15 years, assuming any of the plastic laden electronically overburdened pieces of junk will last that long

----------

mwmkravchenko (Jul 18, 2022)

----------


## mwmkravchenko

> An old saying coined mostly by science fiction writers goes like this "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch". I find that saying to hold true in every aspect of what we do in our daily lives. Just like over unity, from what we know of physics in our little spectrum of knowledge of the universe you cannot get something from nothing nor can you create more of anything out of less than what is already there. 
> BEVs are being touted as the end all saving grace of vehicles, but nothing could be further than the truth than the purposeful omission of the cost of energy to produce them, the added strain on natural recourses to produce them. 
> Hybrids are as has been mentioned probably the better of the 2 worlds. However, from a purely economic means of going to town and back. If for instance you don't need anything more than transportation if you had a duel chargeable Hybrid or even a BEV that you could plug in to recharge the battery when it is parked at your home from solar panels instead of being charged from the grid once the initial cost outlay was covered from miles driven not having to pay the utility company for your electricity you would realize at net savings of cash, Driving the duel chargeable hybrid sensibly you might not even have to run the engine very much at all.
> But none of anyof this will do a thing to save the planet as they like to say, unless you maintain and keep the vehicle for its full life cycle. This trading for new every year or even every 5 years will do nothing but continue the cycle of waste.
> I bet my 30-year-old diesel pickup that gets around 20 MPG is as green if not greener than most vehicles sold within the past 5 years will ever be if they are not kept on the road for at least 15 years, assuming any of the plastic laden electronically overburdened pieces of junk will last that long



BEV can be what they propose. But I like your caveats. Electricity has to be renewable. And the lifecycle of the car has to be reasonable. The two largest opposing forces are in play here. Big business not wanting to do anything bad for business margins ( almost makes sense ). A consumers habits. Uphill both ways. 

I like the idea of a relatively cheap to drive vehicle. I see the quality of the engineering involved. But the battery type has to change. There isn't enough Lithium available right now for demand. Nor is there enough Nickel. Again there are alternatives. But there is 20 years of know how into making Lithium ion cells. And that is the true problem. Any other battery type is just not alive long enough in large production capacities to have the engineering expertise available to make this work. Another Big business versus profits versus commodity availability conundrum. Not saying businesses are not willing to produce at a loss what they see long term as a profitable product. There are many examples of large companies being willing to foot the bill. And that is probably what will have to be done to make these electric cars viable. 

From what I have seen for true mileage numbers from hybrids they are kind of a does nothing better but costs a lot more situation. Peoples normal driving habits do not give a person better fuel economy in these hybrid cars. You have to want to chase the efficiency. Some get awesome MPG. But most people I have talked to don't get a whole lot more than I did in my little Toyota pickup or my Little Toyota van.

As for efficiency. I drove Diesel Jetas around for over 15 years. I'd get nearly 50MPG in the city and over 60MPG on the highway. Now you get half of that. I'm not a chemist. But isn't double the mileage mean that you have potentially half of the pollutants?

----------


## schuylergrace

Yeah, it would be kinda hard for 95% of the electric for EVs to come from coal, when coal accounts for less than 11% of the electric generation in this country. And we all should remember that we are in the infancy of this technology. I don't think battery powered vehicles are a long-term solution--fuel cells seem like a much better idea once they are developed further--but batteries are a workable power source for now. Also, there are plans for vehicles to draw power from the roadways, which would make virtually unlimited distance travel possible, once the infrastructure is implemented. Right now, though, we are where we were back a century ago, when gasoline infrastructure was just being built out. Lots of changes are coming, but I think fossil fuels are dying out, if for no other reason than burning them is a waste of a finite resource that has so many other uses.

----------


## mklotz

> Yeah, it would be kinda hard for 95% of the electric for EVs to come from coal, when coal accounts for less than 11% of the electric generation in this country. ...



According to this...

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

about 22% of electricity is generated using coal.

----------

Frank S (Jul 18, 2022),

mwmkravchenko (Jul 18, 2022)

----------


## Frank S

> I like the idea of a relatively cheap to drive vehicle. I see the quality of the engineering involved.
> As for efficiency. I drove Diesel Jetas around for over 15 years. I'd get nearly 50MPG in the city and over 60MPG on the highway. Now you get half of that. I'm not a chemist. But isn't double the mileage mean that you have potentially half of the pollutants?



That is how it figures in my book, We can once again thank government intervention for poorer milage figures across the board. All while claiming to clean up the air. 
In 1989 my oldest daughter bought her first brand new car a Chevrolet GEO metro 5 sp standard shift. Kept a record of every dollar spent every mile driven and where she drove those miles. every gallon of gas bought whether she bought the lowest grade the mid-grade or premium for 18 months of driving. This was done to be part of her master's thesis. I'm sure you can visualize how meticulous and diligent she was in her record keeping. Purchase price of car after all discounts and 1st time buyers' incentive, she paid cash the night she bought it a drove off after writing a check for $5,600.00. total additional monies spent over the 18 months a whopping $2000.00 this included insurance, ( under my policy) the gas and everything else averaging 58 MPG for 75,000 miles driven. bringing the total cost of owning and operating that car to $7,600.00 or just a little over $0.10 cents per mile. If she had sold the car for half of what she paid for it, still at that time the blue book was nearly the same as her negotiated purchase price, she could have boasted a nickel a mile driving expense. Try operating any vehicle for even 5 times that even adjusted for inflation today.

----------

mwmkravchenko (Jul 18, 2022)

----------


## schuylergrace

> According to this...
> 
> https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3
> 
> about 22% of electricity is generated using coal.



I went back and looked at my source (https://usafacts.org/earth-day-facts...waAvG-EALw_wcB), and it apparently covers _all_ energy production, not just electricity. Your numbers are closer to what I remembered, which still don't have coal being the primary source of energy for electric vehicles. Thanks for a better picture of this energy sector, alone, which is what we were talking about.

----------

mwmkravchenko (Jul 18, 2022)

----------


## Frank S

The other elephant in the room so to speak is transmission lines are already carrying more energy than they were designed for. Disregard how that energy is going to have to be produced, there is an upper limit to the amount of energy the lines can carry. One way to carry more energy is to up the voltages Transcontinental high-tension powerlines can currently have between 66 to 750 kilovolts depending on the distances required for the energy to travel. Higher voltages mean more leakage until at some point the leakage and resistance to current becomes greater than the amount of energy received at the substations. 
One way to counter the losses from overloading the current grid system would be to have community micro generation plants. I can just hear the NIMBY's screaming already. A problem with these power plants is multifold Solar is one source it only works while the sun is shining. Wind being another only works when the wind blows and there are already many associated issues with both of those with storage being the number one for energy on demand. Small hydro plants along flowing rivers may be viable in some instances on a small scale but the restrictions already in place on all waterways in the USA prevent the construction along the riverbanks let alone having any thoughts to building dams. Oil is partially renewable contrary to public beliefs not all oil is 65 million years old, but we are faced again with supply and delivery systems trucking, rail or pipelines. Natural gas is arguably probably one of the environmentally cleanest forms or energy which can at this time be used to produce electrical energy, but it also requires the same mode of transportation as does oil. Nuclear would be or I should have said could have been one of the best had the stigma of nuclear power being associated with the bomb and the difficulty of disposing spent fuel rods not taken over the benefits of using it, and for the most part ground further advances in research to a halt years ago. It is not even worth mentioning converting plant matter into an energy source since the farmers are already having to literally rape their lands to produce crops now. Wait until there are 12, 15 or 20 billion souls to feed we might even reach 8 billion in a couple of years as it is. Coal is out before even adding it to the equation. 
In my mind it is going to require a judicial use of every resource we currently have to just keep up let along cover the added strain of adding more and more electric vehicles. I believe we have more options that are not being perused being kept from us probably done by lobbyist and big corps coercing government puppets.

----------

mwmkravchenko (Jul 18, 2022)

----------


## mwmkravchenko

> The other elephant in the room so to speak is transmission lines are already carrying more energy than they were designed for. Disregard how that energy is going to have to be produced, there is an upper limit to the amount of energy the lines can carry. One way to carry more energy is to up the voltages Transcontinental high-tension powerlines can currently have between 66 to 750 kilovolts depending on the distances required for the energy to travel. Higher voltages mean more leakage until at some point the leakage and resistance to current becomes greater than the amount of energy received at the substations. 
> One way to counter the losses from overloading the current grid system would be to have community micro generation plants. I can just hear the NIMBY's screaming already. A problem with these power plants is multifold Solar is one source it only works while the sun is shining. Wind being another only works when the wind blows and there are already many associated issues with both of those with storage being the number one for energy on demand. Small hydro plants along flowing rivers may be viable in some instances on a small scale but the restrictions already in place on all waterways in the USA prevent the construction along the riverbanks let alone having any thoughts to building dams. Oil is partially renewable contrary to public beliefs not all oil is 65 million years old, but we are faced again with supply and delivery systems trucking, rail or pipelines. Natural gas is arguably probably one of the environmentally cleanest forms or energy which can at this time be used to produce electrical energy, but it also requires the same mode of transportation as does oil. Nuclear would be or I should have said could have been one of the best had the stigma of nuclear power being associated with the bomb and the difficulty of disposing spent fuel rods not taken over the benefits of using it, and for the most part ground further advances in research to a halt years ago. It is not even worth mentioning converting plant matter into an energy source since the farmers are already having to literally rape their lands to produce crops now. Wait until there are 12, 15 or 20 billion souls to feed we might even reach 8 billion in a couple of years as it is. Coal is out before even adding it to the equation. 
> In my mind it is going to require a judicial use of every resource we currently have to just keep up let along cover the added strain of adding more and more electric vehicles. I believe we have more options that are not being perused being kept from us probably done by lobbyist and big corps coercing government puppets.



If I remember correctly Texas has one of the whimpiest transmission line systems in the USA. 

But even here. 

https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-an...s-ontario.html

You see we produce just over 60% of our power from Nuclear. Actually we have one of the largest single site Nuclear facilities in the world next to China of course! But when a large solar farm or wind farm is installed they have to run new transmission lines. A large part of the cost.

We too have a lot of NIMBY people. Louder than the others of course. 

I think we crack 8 billion this year Frank. And India surpassed China in the number of people. China created their own particular problem with the one child policy and longer lifespans. Now like Canada the mean age is going up by leaps and bounds. Makes it harder to find people to work. 

Biomass burning is not really solution when you consider how important it really is for the health and long term wellbeing of the coils on our farms. Keep removing the closed cycle system of plants and then decomposing plants and you end up with a situation of requiring immense volumes of fertilizer. Not so good for the bugs and earthworms that do the bulk of keeping soil fertile. I grew up amongst large farms in rural Manitoba. Where the farms used a lot of fertilizer there were few seagulls looking for worms when they were plowing. And plenty is adjacent fields that the farmer did not fertilize.

If it were to be done over again distributed generation of electricity and storage of electricity would be the go to method. Mandating that every house have solar panels on their roofs and localized batteries of either electrochemical or other means is a way to make this kind of idea work.

Here's one I think is brilliant:

https://eteq.com/worlds-first-carbon...pens-in-italy/

They are doing a megawatt scale plant now to. Nothing in this system is cutting edge. Only it's assemblage. Engineering like this is a way to bridge the gap in Solar and in Wind. And scaled down to a few house lots maybe 6 in size (guessing here) you have 24/7 electricity. And many more people to have jobs in maintenance. Remember maintenance? Almost a four letter word now.

----------

Frank S (Jul 18, 2022)

----------


## Frank S

> If 
> 
> If it were to be done over again distributed generation of electricity and storage of electricity would be the go to method. Mandating that every house have solar panels on their roofs and localized batteries of either electrochemical or other means is a way to make this kind of idea work.
> 
> Here's one I think is brilliant:
> 
> https://eteq.com/worlds-first-carbon...pens-in-italy/
> 
> They are doing a megawatt scale plant now to. Nothing in this system is cutting edge. Only it's assemblage. Engineering like this is a way to bridge the gap in Solar and in Wind. And scaled down to a few house lots maybe 6 in size (guessing here) you have 24/7 electricity. And many more people to have jobs in maintenance. Remember maintenance? Almost a four letter word now.



I remember correctly Texas has one of the whimpiest transmission line systems in the USA. No argument there. Texas is basically on it's own grid system and shares very little with other states the exception being the neighboring states. Ercop dropped the ball last winter due to the high reliance on wind and solar, for each megawatt of wind or solar there is supposed to be an equally sized Natural gas generator as back up or standby. Natural gas generators are the only thing that can be powered up and brought online on demand. due to the nationwide scamdemic many natural gas intensifying stations were left short staffed or in many cases taken off line completely, the high demand for gas to heat homes and run other things reduced the quanity and pressures required to run the generators,many of the generators were not even maintained to be brought online at all so there was power outages. This summer we are in an 11 to 12 year heat cycle causing much higher than normal electrical power requirements. so once again many areas are experiencing some outages, Nothing like California sees frequently but when it the temps. are in the triple digits any your power goes out you get uncomfortable really fast. Most of the outages seem to happen in the larger cities where their grid system is even more over stressed. 

Mandating that every house have solar panels on their roofs and localized batteries of either electrochemical or other means is a way to make this kind of idea work. Would be one good way however the word MANDATE would have to be changed to offering an equitable incentive otherwise once I had enough solar/ wind and storage to meet 125% of my needs I'd take an ax to the grid lines and they know I would not be alone in doing so.

----------

Toolmaker51 (Jul 18, 2022)

----------


## mwmkravchenko

> Would be one good way however the word MANDATE would have to be changed to offering an equitable incentive otherwise once I had enough solar/ wind and storage to meet 125% of my needs I'd take an ax to the grid lines and they know I would not be alone in doing so.



Yeah. Only poor word use is my fault really, and people getting all riled up over being told what to do. The simple facts of life are that we are all told what to do. And it's generally for our good, and other peoples good. Freedom of choice stops where our freedoms impinge on other peoples freedoms. And the deeper we analyze that simple principle the less "freedom" we really have. The one part of freedom that amuses me the most is our freedom to accept the consequences of poor choices. I agree that incentives are required for any large group of people to make significant changes. That would be a given fact in regards to the initial cost of this kind of idea. For me the interesting thing is that pretty much only government has the ability to fund something like this as there is to little payback for pretty much any company. And it would effectively put the nails in the coffins of most if not all major utility providers. Residential neighborhoods would be self sufficient. Only industrial users of electricity would need to have peaker plants to keep up with demand. Or much better renewable and storage of some truly large scale capacity.

We can dream. But I think there's to much money and profit tied up in the present system worldwide to change without there being a truly ground shifting thing like what should be done.

----------


## Frank S

The problem in allowing the government to get involved in anything is it makes everything 10 times more costly than it should be and is never efficient. Big corporate would never go for it for many of the reasons mentioned plus top management wouldn't be able to siphon as much profits away from the shareholders as everyone having their own micro-grids would be in effect investors

----------


## mwmkravchenko

> The problem in allowing the government to get involved in anything is it makes everything 10 times more costly than it should be and is never efficient. Big corporate would never go for it for many of the reasons mentioned plus top management wouldn't be able to siphon as much profits away from the shareholders as everyone having their own micro-grids would be in effect investors



I agree. Just look at the latest NASA rocket or the F35 for well run and managed fiscally responsible programs created to line the pockets of large companies. Wasn't it Eisenhower who used the term military industrial complex. That's one of the largest drivers of the U.S. economy. Making it monetarily accountable would cost a great many well paying jobs. Similar things go on in Canada and every other developed nation. Truly sad. What needs to be done is known very well. Will it get done? I doubt it in my lifetime.

----------


## Toolmaker51

* I'll let this state what freedom is . . .*



*Subjective, in every sense of the word*

----------


## Frank S

I think we have run this thread run off the rails, time for Jon to post us another picture to put us back on track

----------

mwmkravchenko (Jul 19, 2022)

----------


## schuylergrace

> Ercop dropped the ball last winter due to the high reliance on wind and solar, for each megawatt of wind or solar there is supposed to be an equally sized Natural gas generator as back up or standby. Natural gas generators are the only thing that can be powered up and brought online on demand. due to the nationwide scamdemic many natural gas intensifying stations were left short staffed or in many cases taken off line completely, the high demand for gas to heat homes and run other things reduced the quanity and pressures required to run the generators,many of the generators were not even maintained to be brought online at all so there was power outages.



In fact, a study done by the state showed that wind and solar played a large part in propping up the grid. The problems were twofold: 1.) The natural gas production facilities supplying the generating stations were never properly winterized, so they were going offline as they froze up, and 2.) After ERCOT ordered all the utilities to start cutting power to keep the grid from completely going down and suffering major damage, some cut power to the natural gas suppliers and distributors, which made the problem even worse. However, even though folks early on blamed renewable energy producers as the problem, they were online with all their normal production facilities and actually saved the day (along with nuclear and coal, to be fair). Interestingly enough, the Texas legislature took relatively quick action to "ensure" this doesn't happen, again, but with one major shortcoming--they didn't require the gas producers to take steps to properly winterize their facilities, which was the cause of all this mess.

But I do agree that distributed generation is going to be the wave of the future, if the big utilities don't get their way. In nearly every state, they are trying to push through laws that will restrict implementation of independent home/business solar systems and stop states from forcing them to purchase excess power that's generated. It only makes sense to take the physical grid out of the equation in large part, both to cut electrical losses, as well as reduce construction and maintenance costs. Of course, you'd still need the grid to dump excess power onto, to support homes and businesses that don't have solar (or wind or water), and to provide power when the local source is down for whatever reason. But it wouldn't need to be nearly the grid we have today, especially the huge, long distance transmission lines.

----------


## schuylergrace

> * I'll let this state what freedom is . . .*
> 
> 
> 
> *Subjective, in every sense of the word*



Just a quick reminder: The government is us. We elected people to make those laws and regulations in order to live in a more ordered and civilized society. So, blaming "The Government" is simply blaming yourself and everyone else who lives here. You may not agree with the way the government is working, and we have remedies for that via your vote and your voice. Personally, I don't want to go back to the days when you could just take whatever land you wanted or build a house with faulty wiring and sell it to some unsuspecting person or have just anyone behind the wheel of a Mack truck.

----------


## TrickieDickie

Electric automobiles were around before the first gas powered vehicle and to this day batteries still do not have the same power density as fossil fuels. I remember Katrina back in 2005 and big areas of Louisiana was without power, some for weeks, there was no power at my house for 6 days. There were long gas lines at what few stations open.....have these Greenies contemplated how to charge a battery in a "grid down scenario"? I suspect they will bring in diesel powered generators.

----------


## schuylergrace

> Electric automobiles were around before the first gas powered vehicle and to this day batteries still do not have the same power density as fossil fuels. I remember Katrina back in 2005 and big areas of Louisiana was without power, some for weeks, there was no power at my house for 6 days. There were long gas lines at what few stations open.....have these Greenies contemplated how to charge a battery in a "grid down scenario"? I suspect they will bring in diesel powered generators.



Yes, but before electric vehicles, there were steam powered vehicles, and we still use steam technology (in a much more refined way) to generate electricity today. Batteries are the same--we went from one-use cells to rechargeable to today's high power density (but not yet the same as gas), and they, along with electric motor technology, continue to improve. Gas and diesel engines have to some extent, but not on the scale of electric (or steam, for that matter). There are also more important and less dangerous uses for our finite oil reserves. 

And regarding your how to keep your house and car running in the event of a grid disaster, the ideal solution would be to have your own generation and storage capability (solar panels or turbines and batteries). Your house would operate primarily off your own generating capacity, but you can pull from the grid when you turn on your three-phase milling machine or dump your excess power back onto the grid after your batteries charge. In fact, Tesla has already delivered several larger generating stations/batteries to areas struck by natural disasters to localize power. You'd just have the same gear--it's available today--in your home, but on a smaller scale. We aren't there, yet, and there will be major growing pains, but I really think that's the way we are headed.

----------


## Rikk

> I think we have run this thread run off the rails, time for Jon to post us another picture to put us back on track



AGREED!!!!


The Iron Range & Huron Bay Railroad (IR&HB) is a defunct railroad constructed to haul iron ore in Michigan's Upper Peninsula during the 1890s. Financial and engineering problems prevented the railroad's operation; it remains an unusual example of a railroad which was completed but never used.





The terrain for the line proved forbidding. The country was hilly and broken; grading the roadbed proved an expensive and intensive activity. By June 1891 an initial workforce of 500 men had swelled to 1,500, which strained the local transportation network. The builder, Wallace Dingman of Battle Creek, Michigan, ran out of money in August and abandoned work, leaving the IR&HB with unpaid bills and swamping Marquette County's limited poor relief resources.[7] New contractors were hired and the grading was finally finished in the summer of 1892, reportedly at the cost of $400,000–well above the $265,000 budgeted for the project. One major obstacle was a 1,000-foot (305 m) cut near Mount Arvon, from which 40,000 cubic yards (31,000 m3) of rock were removed. The rails were laid between July and November 1892.

The ore dock was built on the shores of Huron Bay for $170,000 under the supervision of John Munro, Jr. It measured 1,000 feet (305 m) in length and required 2,000,000 board feet (4,719 m3) of lumber. A sawmill was constructed to process the vast amounts of timber necessary for the project.

Although the IR&HB completed the 42-mile (68 km) line[10] between Champion and Huron Bay and purchased two 4-8-0 "Mastodon" steam locomotives from the Brooks Locomotive Works, no trains were ever operated. Reference Barnett implies 35 miles in his calculates; Dompier claims 42 miles, as does the Times article cited below. The completion of the line coincided with the Panic of 1893, which reduced the demand for iron ore. Additionally, the ore mines around Lake Michigamme–which the IR&HB had intended to serve–began to play out. There were richer mines in Ishpeming to the east, but the IR&HB lacked the wherewithal to construct such a line, which would have spanned 15 to 20 miles (24 to 32 km). In places the IR&HB line exceeded a grade of 5%, which would have made the haulage of freight difficult. For a standard-gauge non-rack rail railroad like the IR&HB, 3% was "excessive" and anything over 4.5% unheard of. Some sources claim the IR&HB exceeded 8% in places. 

A test run was done with one of the newly delivered locomotives. A number of internet sources cite differing times, length of the travel and the outcome. A fair use quote of the 2 M ride page from Sam Beck, a railroad watchman: “As the last eleven miles of the road were downgrade, we decided the uphill run from Huron Bay would be a good test. I was in the cab with the engineer and we had proceeded just a short distance up the grade when the railroad gave way and we went into a ditch.” “From that moment on, the Iron Range and Huron Bay Railroad ceased to exist as a railroad!”

By 1893 the IR&HB found itself in serious financial difficulties. In 1890 it had begun with $1,400,000 in capital through an initial stock issue coupled with the sale of bonds. Additional bonds worth $600,000 were sold to cover construction overruns and keep the railroad afloat, but its debts mounted. Finally, in 1900, the company's owners sold it outright to the Detroit Construction Company for $110,000.

You can still visit this location today if you are willing to do a bit of hiking.

----------

Frank S (Jul 19, 2022),

mwmkravchenko (Jul 19, 2022)

----------


## carl blum

The aluminum Apex was the largest piece of aluminum at the time, and had the value of silver. Carl.

----------

Frank S (Jul 19, 2022),

mwmkravchenko (Jul 19, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Jul 19, 2022)

----------


## Frank S

> Yes, but before electric vehicles, there were steam powered vehicles, and we still use steam technology (in a much more refined way) to generate electricity today. Batteries are the same--we went from one-use cells to rechargeable to today's high power density (but not yet the same as gas), and they, along with electric motor technology, continue to improve. Gas and diesel engines have to some extent, but not on the scale of electric (or steam, for that matter). There are also more important and less dangerous uses for our finite oil reserves. 
> 
> And regarding your how to keep your house and car running in the event of a grid disaster, the ideal solution would be to have your own generation and storage capability (solar panels or turbines and batteries). Your house would operate primarily off your own generating capacity, but you can pull from the grid when you turn on your three-phase milling machine or dump your excess power back onto the grid after your batteries charge. In fact, Tesla has already delivered several larger generating stations/batteries to areas struck by natural disasters to localize power. You'd just have the same gear--it's available today--in your home, but on a smaller scale. We aren't there, yet, and there will be major growing pains, but I really think that's the way we are headed.



I have a 105year old 5 ton electric truck sitting in my shop that belongs to my partner. 6 of the 9 Edison batteries will still take and hold a charge. 
As far as 3 phase power goes for years there have 3ph DC to AC converters at the commercial scale. While I was in Kuwait the company I was with was contracted to provide a pir of 750 KW diesel backup generators, the switch gear, the battery bank and the UPS to insure a 100% clean uninterrupted 50hz 415VAC power to a research lab in the American University of Kuwait. Our factory was powered by diesel generators as at our location no electric service of sufficient size was available to us my office ran 24/7 on battery power charged during the day by our 500KW generator 14 computers and associated equipment stayed on day and night even during the hours the generator was shut down. it would not have been too much of a stretch to add solar, had we had enough surface area for such an array

----------

mr mikey (Jul 24, 2022),

mwmkravchenko (Jul 19, 2022)

----------


## mwmkravchenko

> I have a 105year old 5 ton electric truck sitting in my shop that belongs to my partner. 6 of the 9 Edison batteries will still take and hold a charge. 
> As far as 3 phase power goes for years there have 3ph DC to AC converters at the commercial scale. While I was in Kuwait the company I was with was contracted to provide a pir of 750 KW diesel backup generators, the switch gear, the battery bank and the UPS to insure a 100% clean uninterrupted 50hz 415VAC power to a research lab in the American University of Kuwait. Our factory was powered by diesel generators as at our location no electric service of sufficient size was available to us my office ran 24/7 on battery power charged during the day by our 500KW generator 14 computers and associated equipment stayed on day and night even during the hours the generator was shut down. it would not have been too much of a stretch to add solar, had we had enough surface area for such an array



My guess is that those batteries are repairable to. I have derailed so much one more is not a stretch. If as much time and R&D was put into batteries as oil and derivatives we would be in a far different state of transportation now. J.P. Morgan summed it up by saying he had nothing to sell a battery electric vehicle owner other than the initial purchase. Internal combustion, well you pay from day one to the end. Tycoons like Morgan and Morgan himself literally bought and closed many electric car manufacturers. Of course electricity is not free either. But a lot less expensive.

----------

mr mikey (Jul 24, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Engineers installing a 100 kW transmitter at KWID radio. San Francisco, CA. 1942.

----------

jimfols (Jul 24, 2022),

mr mikey (Jul 24, 2022),

nova_robotics (Jul 29, 2022),

old_toolmaker (Jul 24, 2022)

----------


## IntheGroove

There's a few large vacuum tubes in there somewhere...

----------

mwmkravchenko (Jul 24, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Waynesboro, Tennessee mobile firefighting crew. 1942.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

carloski (Aug 8, 2022),

jimfols (Jul 31, 2022)

----------


## IntheGroove

Looks like the whippersnappers with the fancy boots will be lighting the back fires...

----------


## hemmjo

Sure would like to have that truck!!!

----------

Frank S (Jul 31, 2022)

----------


## Toolmaker51

> Looks like the whippersnappers with the fancy boots will be lighting the back fires...



Long as they can don them in time?

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

When they're not tending to their moonshine!

----------


## Jon

Alcoa apprentices. Massena, NY. 1931.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg

----------

carloski (Aug 8, 2022),

nova_robotics (Aug 8, 2022)

----------


## marksbug

golf training class.

----------


## rdefayette

> Alcoa apprentices. Massena, NY. 1931.
> 
> Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg



My Grandfather was a machinist at The Messina works until he transferred to the Quad Cities when the new plant opened in '47 or '48 (IIRC for the year). He taught machine tooling at Messina during WWII. He also cast the Clifton Award trophies and made the scale models of "The Cars of the Future" for the automobile "Golden Jubilee" in Detroit/1946.

----------

mr mikey (Aug 13, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Trafford Foundry workers. Trafford, PA. 1949.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

Inflight (Aug 15, 2022),

nova_robotics (Aug 15, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Aug 19, 2022)

----------


## 12bolts

# 2683 Thats an impressive casting!

----------

Inflight (Aug 15, 2022)

----------


## hemmjo

2683 is indeed impressive, but not as much so as the mold and the crane and the furnace and the MEN that made it. Boggles my mind when I think about it. 

THEN, let your mind wander to what the casting is going to be just a part of!!!!

----------


## Inflight

I think it might be an end bearing cap for a rolling mill machine. Very impressive casting indeed

----------


## Jon

RCA television production line workers. Camden, NJ. 1950.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...w_fullsize.jpg

----------

mwmkravchenko (Aug 23, 2022),

old_toolmaker (Aug 22, 2022)

----------


## old_toolmaker

Those TV sets were manufactured way back when I was a young kid. I can remember watching some of the earlier TV shows sitting in front a TV set just like that. My dad would turn the set on and we had to wait quite some tim for the set to warm up before the picture would show up on the picture tube (cathode ray tube) as the screen was known at the time.
Thanks for posting!
Dick

----------


## jimfols

RCA television production line workers. Camden, NJ. 1950.

I remember those test patterns.

----------

mwmkravchenko (Aug 23, 2022),

old_toolmaker (Aug 23, 2022)

----------


## TrickieDickie

The test patterns and playing the National Anthem at the end of the broadcasting day.

----------

old_toolmaker (Aug 23, 2022)

----------


## IntheGroove

I remember having to smack the side of the Sears Silvertone B&W tv to keep the picture and I think the Indian head on the test pattern would not be allowed today...

----------


## TrickieDickie

I worked in the Sears and Roebuck TV and Radio repair department for a time as a young fella

----------


## gatz

We had an Admiral TV set in the mid 50's; probably when I was about 6 or 7 yrs old.
2 knobs; Vol and Channel. I think there were more controls, but we were advised to never touch them.
I recall the test patterns as well........meant the end of the telecasting day. 
Of all the ads on TV at that time, I remember the Hamms bear and the jingle "From the land of sky-blue waters" I see that it's on YouTube, but of course with a lot of other ads.
One time, my sisters and I were doing some "crazy dancing" in the living room and pushed the set into the wall. As the narrow end of the CRT tube was sticking out quite a bit beyond the cabinet, it caught the brunt of the push, and was effectively disabled. 
I was surprised my Dad didn't really get upset; as that would've been his normal reaction. Couple weeks later, back on.

----------


## Jon

Cotton mill workers. Indianapolis, IN. August, 1908.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...9_fullsize.jpg

----------

carloski (Aug 30, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Leland & Faulconer Manufacturing Co. workers. Detroit, MI. November, 1903.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...3_fullsize.jpg

----------

EnginePaul (Sep 9, 2022)

----------


## IntheGroove

The lamps seem out of place...

----------


## schuylergrace

I've often wondered how they got enough light to work back in Ye Olden Days. Skylights are great, but in this case, they only run down the center of the shop. And the gaslights I'm sure aren't very bright or task-oriented. Those back benches must have been especially bad. Miner's lights, maybe?

----------


## NeiljohnUK

Reminds me of my father telling me how Ford changed the lighting in the first week after taking over Briggs Motor Bodies Ltd in Swathling, Southampton. 

The plant was originally an aircraft factory owned by Owen-Cunliffe Aviation at the Southern end of Southampton (Eastleigh) Airport that Brigg's bought to supply Ford in 1949, Pre WWII Owen-Cunliffe built aircraft, during they were part of the Supermarine Spitfire supply chain shadow factory network in addition to aircraft servicing and airframe investigation, including German aircraft (photo's online {https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-aviation/145437-trying-to-identify-heinkel-111-at-eastleigh} including a damaged Heinkel among damaged Hurricanes show just how few incandescent lamps were hung in the buildings). 

When Ford took over in 1953 the high hung poor lighting which left many dark areas where a worker could hide (and sleep) was replaced with lower hung florescent tubes in 4 tube bays end to end length ways over the entire factory floor and no more than 10 feet apart across the width, now the entire workspace was brightly lit. Ford also installed high level walk ways, most enclosed with shuttered later mirrored windows, so management could walk unseen to monitor the workers below, performance of time and motion studies being high on Fords agenda. The factory was closed in 2013 with Ford chasing EU subsidies and cheaper labour moving production mainly to Turkey, with the buildings being demolished by the end of 2017.

----------


## Ralphxyz

Assemble piece by piece before assemble lines were born.

----------


## EnginePaul

I was wondering what they are making so I went online to find:
Leland & Faulconer Manufacturing Co. - History | VintageMachinery.org
Very interesting; they are the forerunners to Cadillac.

----------

schuylergrace (Sep 9, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Workers installing boilers at the Pittsburgh and West Virginia Gas Company. Downs, WV. 1925.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...9_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Sep 12, 2022)

----------


## IntheGroove

They could be removing them...

----------


## Jon

R.L. Taylor Motor Co. workers. Washington, D.C. 1923.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...2_fullsize.jpg

----------


## IntheGroove

Gotta love the torque tube...

----------


## Jon

Office of War Information workers. Chicago, IL. January, 1943.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...3_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Jon

Tie shop workers at the Homestead Steel Works. Homestead, PA. 1915.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...9_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Oct 3, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Liberty ship builders. 1941.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...7_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Oct 10, 2022)

----------


## mansworld

The following summary is from the jacket of the book, Assault on the Liberty by James M. Ennes, Jr.; Random House, New York, 1979, ISBN 0-394-50512-3:In June 1967, jet aircraft and motor torpedo boats of Israel brutally assaulted an American naval vessel, the USS LIBERTY, in international waters off the Sinai Peninsula in the Mediterranean Sea. The attack was preceded by more than six-hours of intense low-level surveillance by Israel photo-reconnaissance aircraft, which buzzed the intelligence ship thirteen times, sometimes flying as low as 200 feet directly overhead. The carefully orchestrated assault that followed was initiated by high-performance jet aircraft, and was followed up by slower and more maneuverable jets carrying napalm, and was finally turned over to lethal torpedo boats, which blasted a forty-foot hole in the ship's side.The attack lasted more than two hours-killing 34 Americans and wounding 171 others-and inflicted 821 rocket and machine-gun holes in the ship. And when the LIBERTY stubbornly remained afloat despite her damage, Israeli forces machine-gunned her life rafts and sent troop-carrying helicopters to finish the job. At this point, with Sixth Fleet rescue aircraft finally enroute, the government of Israel apologized and the attacking forces suddenly withdrew. Only then did the identity of the assailants become known.

----------


## TrickieDickie

I do not remember this incident we should have spanked them

----------


## schuylergrace

I remember hearing about this around the time it was all going on. It seems to me there was a relatively small blurb in the news, which grew larger over the next few years as word got out and folks started questioning what really happened. Personally, I think either Israel thought we were spying on them (which we were, along with spying on Egypt and other countries in the region), or they were trying to start an incident which we'd blame on Soviet-backed actors in the area to force us to enter the war they were waging against Egypt. There was no mistaking that ship, particularly by the people shooting at it, so I'm sure it wasn't an "accident" as the Israelis claimed. But there was as much covering up going on in the U.S. as there was overseas.

----------


## mansworld

A former CIA agent said that the attack on the USS Cole in Yemen in 2000 was carried out by an Israeli submarine and not by Al Qaeda as it was falsely claimed. The investigations and analysis of the materials and residue collected from the explosion site revealed that the explosive contained substances used only by two armies in the world: The US army and the Israeli army.

----------


## Jon

Press shop workers at the Homestead Steel Works. Homestead, PA. April, 1948.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...2_fullsize.jpg

----------


## NeiljohnUK

> A former CIA agent said that the attack on the USS Cole in Yemen in 2000 was carried out by an Israeli submarine and not by Al Qaeda as it was falsely claimed. The investigations and analysis of the materials and residue collected from the explosion site revealed that the explosive contained substances used only by two armies in the world: The US army and the Israeli army.



"Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer" & "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" seem apropos

----------


## Jon

Workers sinking a cast section of the Michigan Central Railroad Company tunnel. 1910.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...1_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Oct 30, 2022),

nova_robotics (Oct 28, 2022),

Ralphxyz (Oct 28, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Westinghouse Electric Corporation workers. 1900.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...0_fullsize.jpg

----------

carloski (Nov 5, 2022),

jackhoying (Oct 31, 2022),

jimfols (Oct 30, 2022),

nova_robotics (Oct 31, 2022)

----------


## 12L14

> "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer" & "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" seem apropos



Was it Patton that said something like: „God protect me from friends - enemies I can handle alone”?

----------


## mklotz

> Was it Patton that said something like: „God protect me from friends - enemies I can handle alone”?



That was Voltaire...

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/739...-can-take-care

----------

12L14 (Oct 30, 2022),

allenz (Nov 6, 2022),

mwmkravchenko (Nov 6, 2022)

----------


## mr mikey

Are these ladies human powered generators?

----------


## carl blum

Hello: They are assembly line workers finishing electric motors.

I looked again. It is hard to tell. I think they put all the supplies away for the photograph for industrial security. The lady in front has several coffee cups, but they might be holding oil or varnish?? No finished goods in sight. Their machines are powered by the line shaft under their work tables. You wouldn't want your dress or apron to get caught!

The second row of women look like they are winding radio antennas for the backs of table radios.

----------

mr mikey (Nov 6, 2022)

----------


## TrickieDickie

Edison received most of the notoriety for inventions of that time because he relished the fame, he loved it (his employees did the work and he took the credit). Westinghouse was a prolific inventor and was very shy to receive any social fame and he was very good to his employees. Just as he was about to loose ownership of a large portion of his business to the banks, his employees donated their money to help Westinghouse but it wasn't nearly enough. Westinghouse was a great man.

----------


## IntheGroove

Appears they are making rectangular field coils...

----------


## mdhatter3

Is this the plant that was on Genesee street in Buffalo next to the airport? That plant assembled planes during WW II.

----------


## Jon

Workers at the information room at Union Station. Chicago, IL. January, 1943.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...1_fullsize.jpg

----------


## mr mikey

Thank You. Mr Mikey.

----------


## Jon

Steam drill workers. Vermont, 1905.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...6_fullsize.jpg

----------

tuchie (Nov 14, 2022)

----------


## mcthistle007

Ok Now But what does a Steam Drill Worker Actually Do? Are they drilling holes with a steam powered jack hammer device or what? I'm itching to know. I never heard or seen such a thing. :Hat Tip: 



[/QUOTE]

----------


## 12bolts

From Goggle
A steam drill is powered by a remote boiler while a length of steel hammered away at the rock face. It took the ingenuity of an American inventor named Simon Ingersoll in 1871 to come up with a device that rotated as well, effectively creating the first hammer drill.

Whilst they dont really appear to be working a "rock face" I dont know enough, (actually SFA) about this to comment further

----------


## mcthistle007

And What does a Torque Tube actually do? Does the Driveshaft sit inside the Tube? Would Modern Cars benefit from haveing this?? :Smash:

----------


## mcthistle007

Well Thanks Anyway But once you hear The Name Ingersoll Rand Say No More! A Remote Boiler, There must be Hoses to each Power Dril. And you can see some workkers standing on their machines to increase "The Rate of Penetration" I'd like to see one in a Machine Museum. Thx

----------


## hemmjo

> And What does a Torque Tube actually do? Does the Driveshaft sit inside the Tube? Would Modern Cars benefit from haveing this??



Not sure where this question came from, but...early vehicles used leaf springs for suspension. On acceleration, the rear axle would try to twist (torque) upward as the pinion tries to climb up the ring gear. The leaf springs had trouble resisting this twist. During braking, the axle would try to twist downward. The drive shaft was inside the ridgid torque tube. The tube was attached securely to the rear axle and the engine/transmission. The tube served as a long lever which transferred the torque forward to prevent the axle from twisting on acceleration or braking. The tube makes servicing the drive train more difficult, they are also not strong enough for heavy duty applications. 

Many installed "ladder bars" on 1960's "muscle cars" to prevent the leaf springs from "wrapping" up when drag racing. They are still used today in many applications. Modern cars have totally different suspension systems would not benefit from a torque tube. If you look at heavy trucks, you will see solid bars leading forward from the axle to resist the twisting action. 

Last (only) car I had with a torque tube was a '53 Chevy. I bought it for $25.00, because a guy told me the transmission would fit my '60 chevy. It did not run, so we towed it home with a rope, then discovered the transmission would not work. One of my first really stupid ideas. My dad was sure mad when he got home. But I learned from the experience.

----------

jackhoying (Nov 16, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Nov 15, 2022)

----------


## tedg53

> And What does a Torque Tube actually do? Does the Driveshaft sit inside the Tube? Would Modern Cars benefit from haveing this??



Before the mid-engine Corvettes, models with the engine in front and transaxle in the rear used a torque tube to connect the two, and yes the driveshaft ran inside.

----------


## mr mikey

Torque tubes were not fun when a u-joint needed to be replaced. My first experience when I was about 16 years old was what the?, It was an early American Motors Rambler. You had a choice of pulling the engine-trans or rear axle to access u-joints. The axle was always the best choice. Now you quote the customer $400.00 bucks when on a normal driveshaft a u-joint back in the 60's was $50.00 bucks. Glad I didn't see many of those.  :Angry:

----------


## IntheGroove

My Unimogs had torque tubes...

----------


## Toolmaker51

re post 2725 & 2726. I'd say steam powered equivalent to modern jack-hammers, especially with Ingersoll connection. What too is interesting, some have a heavier supporting tripod and a hand crank; to feed the thing in.
They are a lot like today's portable hot-tap device.
https://www.google.com/search?client...ot+tap+machine

----------


## Jon

Shasta Dam workers. Shasta County, CA. December, 1941.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...3_fullsize.jpg

----------

jimfols (Nov 27, 2022),

nova_robotics (Nov 21, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Newsboys. St. Louis, MO. 1910.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...0_fullsize.jpg

----------

Chlor (Dec 19, 2022),

jimfols (Nov 27, 2022)

----------


## jimfols

2736

We was tough when we was kids.

----------


## Toolmaker51

2736* I saw that gang in line for lottery tickets, each with more confidence than cohorts, "this one here, it's a gonna be the big one".

----------


## mr mikey

Next let's try beer  :Beer:  lol

----------


## funforall 69

Yup. I had a 1948 Ford that I switched the flathead out and put an overhead valve Y-block in. Drove it with the column shift for a while, and then decided to put in a floor shift transmission, I think it was out of a Ford truck. I pulled the rear-end to be able to get the job done. It was quite a bit of work.....I'm glad that things progressed mechanically to where it is different now....just drop the driveshaft by loosening the universal joint clamps on the differential. The old way was a pain if you ever needed to replace the clutch.

----------


## Hoosiersmoker

I got email notification that mansworld responded to this thread but I don't see it here? Wonder why?

----------


## hemmjo

That post got moved. I searched for "tobacco" to find it.. Tobacco

----------


## Duke_of_URL

Look close, those boys were rolling their own filterless "straights." They couldn't afford them 'fancy' store-bought smokes on their wages.

----------


## Jon

Steam donkey crew. Vancouver, BC. 1917.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...5_fullsize.jpg

----------

carloski (Dec 5, 2022),

clydeman (Dec 10, 2022),

nova_robotics (Dec 5, 2022),

rlm98253 (Dec 5, 2022),

tuchie (Dec 5, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Blacksmiths. Despatch, NY. 1904.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...8_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Dec 12, 2022),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 11, 2022)

----------


## IntheGroove

That horizontal press is beautiful...

----------


## hemmjo

Did we see a different photo of that same shop a while ago? Or was that just a common way to build shops of that nature?

----------


## Inflight

> That horizontal press is beautiful...



The Grandfather of all modern OBI presses. Nice machine!

----------


## Toolmaker51

OBI (Open Back Inclineable) are punch presses, separating bits from strip stock in blanking, coining, forming, punching, and piercing. That baby is inclined as far as it will go!
Machine in use at left front of photo is a bulldozer. Nowadays mostly for compressing scrap into bundles, they were the forming machines. Lots of them in shipyards. Gobs of mechanical power, slow moving ram. It looks like the men are making something like frame cross members or springy bumper reinforcements. OBI's are capable of such operations but modern production uses tonnage in forming compared to rapidly closed dies. For some products, metal likes a second to flow into a shape other than flat. Fast hits create different characteristics.
It interested me being labeled as blacksmiths; they certainly are, mechanized at that. Can't imagine trying to meet production of parts like that with a sledgehammer.

----------


## schuylergrace

> Did we see a different photo of that same shop a while ago? Or was that just a common way to build shops of that nature?



I remember seeing a machine shop in a similar building to that one not long ago. From what I've seen over the years, that was a pretty typical design for industrial buildings with lots of windows, both down below and up in the clerestory, and workspaces on either side of a clear center aisle. The shop I'm thinking of had artificial light to supplement the sunlight, but this one doesn't seem to have that luxury.

----------


## Jon

Workers install the new drive motors at the Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation's Aliquippa Works. September, 1953.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...2_fullsize.jpg

----------

nova_robotics (Dec 19, 2022),

Ralphxyz (Dec 28, 2022)

----------


## Jon

Allegheny Manufacturing Company workers. June, 1949.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...9_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Jon

Rod and Wire Mill workers at the Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation's Aliquippa Works.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...9_fullsize.jpg

----------


## Jon

Open hearth furnace crew. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation. 1900.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...1_fullsize.jpg

----------

