# Homemade Creations >  XB-35 Flying Wing RC Model

## jjr2001

Work in process. Mostly made from lite plywood, balsa, and some depron foam.
I will post new pictures as the work progresses.

Cheers, JR

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C-Bag (Jan 16, 2017),

Paul Jones (Feb 2, 2017),

PJs (Jan 22, 2017)

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## C-Bag

Very cool/ambitious.

So is this your homemade plans or an existing set? And has this flown as a model? No landing gear? So hand launch and put it down in tall grass? Flying wings are notoriously unstable needing computer aid I thought. I admire those that can spend so much time and such fine craftsmanship in the face of it all being turned to splinters in a heartbeat. I look fwd to more pix and maybe a mov of its flight?

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jjr2001 (Jan 21, 2017),

Paul Jones (Feb 2, 2017)

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## jjr2001

Hi C-Bag, There are plans for the B-35 that were made in about 1986 and published in one of the model magazines. I purchased a copy of the plans and the build article. Motors used back then were not very powerful so I changed the motor type. It is now being built with 4 brushless motors and LiPo batteries. There is landing gear. It is of the fixed variety and not retractable. (keep it simple).
I have access to a 700 foot long runway at my RC club field. It is paved so no grass! This model uses washout in the wing tips to aid stability to the aircraft. With the 4 pylons and 4 props the plane is suppose to fly! We shall see.. I have had them break into little pieces in the past but hope this one will not have to be ("re-kitted"). I will have 800 watts of power in this model where the original builder was only able to get 400. So by theory it should be able to fly straight up since it will have a 2 to 1 power to weight ratio.

I will post more pics as the build progresses and a flight video.

Cheers, JR

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Paul Jones (Feb 2, 2017)

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## C-Bag

"Re-kitted"! LOL, I love it. Never heard that one but it's been too many decades since I messed with R/C. Washout in lieu of a vertical stab is an interesting trade off. You will have your hands full I'm sure.

My wonderful wife bought me Real Flight R/C sim several years ago and I still get that out and run through a couple of my favs. To my surprise the kits with electric motors are my favorites. Lot to be said for not having to deal with starting and the mess the fuel makes of everything. And they have plenty of power(!) plus I never was one of those guys that has to have the roar of an engine to have fun with flying. I think that's why I liked gliders too. My fav RealFlight to fly is the BeeGee racer. Very sweet to fly, very acrobatic and not too bad to land for such a short coupled aircraft. Best of all I don't have that horrible soul implosion when I auger one in  :Smile:

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jjr2001 (Jan 21, 2017),

Paul Jones (Feb 2, 2017),

PJs (Jan 21, 2017)

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## Frank S

I was out with a mate flying his model DC3 with 4 cox .35 engines, down in Au back in 89 when he handed me the control unit.
Here he said, I'll get us another brew I told him you better let me get the brews and you fly the plane because I'm libel to make a big crater in the ground with it. Sure enough it wasn't 10 seconds later when I yelled its coming down, its coming down Hurry its going to crash. He grabbed the unit it was dead stick right into a paddock with 3 ft of water. turns out the control unit had shorted out somehow. Wasn't pretty, too bad there was no one around with a hand held super 8 movie camera would have been a spectacular film to have been sold to Hollywood

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jjr2001 (Jan 21, 2017),

Paul Jones (Feb 2, 2017)

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## jjr2001

I agree totally with the noise issue. When I started flying electric back in 2006 I was just about laughed off the club field since my electrics did not have any Vrooooom and everyone else was flying glow or gas. Well for some reason all of (the old ducks) are now flying electrics. It is so obvious to them now that they don't need the Vrooooom and would rather have a clean easy to set up plane. I prefer planes that are "drop and go", that is take them out of the trunk, put the battery in and fly. My largest is a 68" wing span pattern plane that I scratch built for electric power with a 6 cell 5000mah battery making about 1300 watts. Nothin like flyin your own home built...

I still have and use my RealFlight simulator. It is great to keep up my flying ( skills?? ) when I can't get to the field. I have added a lot of planes to it with expansion packs and the RealFlight Swaps web site so the choice is almost unlimited. However I have not found a B-35 yet!...I figure that if I can bulk up the F4-Phantom to double its weight and not crash it I should be able to fly most anything..

Cheers, JR

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Paul Jones (Feb 2, 2017)

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## jjr2001

Frank, sorry for your loss! It smarts when they go down. With the hit in the water "puddle" I doubt that it could have been "re-kitted". I usually crash mine myself! I have seen several really great scale builders bring their hard work to the field and then let some "expert" pilot fly the plane....No thanks, if I built it I can crash it as good as anybody can!..Now of course we do help out the new pilots by getting a plane up about 3 mistakes high and then toss him or her the control box but always ready to take over.
Almost as much fun flying RC as making tools for the shop!

Cheers, JR

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## C-Bag

My brother and I flew control line all the way through highschool. I was more a stunt guy, my bro was combat. I did the building for both of us. I never flew contest stunt but my brother was ranked in open combat even though he was just a squirt. 

My uncle was a B-29 co pilot in Korea then became a test pilot until he had a heart attack during a test flight. Somehow they had never detected his problem so he was grounded. So he became one of the top simulator trouble shooters and his passion hobby was R/C. I loved the idea of R/C but it was for rich guys as like a Kraft Gold Medal 4ch was over $500 at the time. My uncle found a complete rig with a Falcon 56 w/35 + 4ch kit radio(Radio Shack?) that one of the guys in his club was getting out and I could afford.

My uncle did all the tests to make sure the radio etc was ok and we went to their field which was a taxi way at the local airport. Everybody was warned about the noob and my uncle took it off and handed off to me saying fly a flat figure 8, which I did. 

Everything was fine and my uncle was quite impressed when all the sudden it went to full throttle, full right aileron, full up, full right rudder. My uncle dumped his coffee on me and took the box back and is calmly working the sticks to no avail and calls out he has no control and it looks like one side of the battery connector has lost contact throwing it into this condition. What saved it was he'd set up the control horns to the least deflection so it was it was doing lazy right handed loops. It lost altitude with each lazy loop so it was death in slow motion  :Smile:  He said it's going in and it worked out that the bottom of the last loop it hit the gear hard and bounced up. When it hit the gear the other connector made contact again and he got control and put it down with no damage, didn't even kill the engine. That setup was ok but the old 56 was already fuel soaked and the radio wasn't the best. But it served its purpose to get me over to see and hang with my uncle. He passed a couple of years later at only 39.

I probably was the only one who felt this way, but there is something really special about going to a field early in the quiet morning with air still and getting out the gear. It always felt rude to fire up one of those noisy 2 strokes. I love the photo realistic fields in RealFlight, I don't bother with the fantasy settings except the island one for flying the PBY. 

Interesting JR you mention using your overweight F4 as training for the XB-35. Does it get squirrley or just everything is happening so fast and you have to be on your toes? I remember somebody calling the F4 the flying brick, but I was never as interested in jets as I was prop planes. particularly WWII vintage.

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jjr2001 (Jan 21, 2017)

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## Frank S

JR it wasn't my loss the plane was built and owned by my mate there in Australia there were about half a dozen other flyers tof his club there that day and 2 of them augured their planes into the ground as well.it looked to me as though those guys got about as much enjoyment out of destroying countless hours of builds as much as they did flying them

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jjr2001 (Jan 21, 2017)

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## jjr2001

> JR it wasn't my loss the plane was built and owned by my mate there in Australia there were about half a dozen other flyers tof his club there that day and 2 of them augured their planes into the ground as well.it looked to me as though those guys got about as much enjoyment out of destroying countless hours of builds as much as they did flying them



Indeed, I have seen many a plane bite the dust only to see the owner bring out another one the next day and try it again!. Must be the challenge to get it right! Now a days it only takes 3 days and a fat check to get your next one in the air but where is the fun in that. The hobby can be a huge cost with the jet turbine types costing up to 40,000.00 bucks..Yikes, that is the cost of a very nice new car. What are they thinking! Anyway most of my electrics are sub $200.00 and the electronics and motor usually survive to fly again. Great fun.

Cheers, JR

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## jjr2001

C-Bag, that is quite a flight with your Falcon 56. I have built at least two of them and a Senior Falcon. The Senior Falcon was first and it came with all the tools to build with plus a Super Tigre 60. It was 1966 and I was in the Air Force at Keesler AFB in school. Being married I lived off base and built the thing in a one room apartment. (very understanding wife). Never got it off the ground, the Kraft 12 channel reed set would operate the controls just by running up the engine. Ran out of time and transfered out, and sold it without without ever flying it. 

Now, bouncing it off the ground to get it running again must be a first. Usually when I bounce mine into the ground it ends badly!.
Over the years I had the Kraft reed set, a Galloping Ghost set, and several proportional sets but the state of the art today in TX/RX with spread spectrum is so reliable that I know when I auger in it was my fault..(not always but almost). 

The simulator with my "heavy" F-4 is harder to fly in most respects than the original sim model. You need full down elevator to fly inverted and if you even think of making a turn you best be going fast. Flys a lot like my own Phantom. High speed drops from 120 unmodified to 100 mph with my heavy. Quite a performance hit but still flyable if I am careful.

As we say at the field, "fly low but not too low".
Cheers, JR

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C-Bag (Jan 17, 2017),

Paul Jones (Feb 2, 2017),

PJs (Jan 21, 2017)

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## Frank S

I've not done much of anything with RC other than that 1 time with my mate in Au when I was younger though I d do quite a bit of tethered control flying but that got old just walking around in circles or making the plane do lazy figure 8s while trying not to trip over things on the ground while your eyes were glued to the plane up in the air. After a while it was more like flying a kite that was constantly trying to go another direction from where you wanted it to.

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jjr2001 (Jan 21, 2017)

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## jjr2001

I understand that Frank. I did some control line work in the 60's and 70's but then that evolved into RC. I think the thing I like the best is building the planes. It was a challenge to learn to fly without breaking something at first but that is pretty easy now but I still enjoy the build. I was out of the hobby from about 1982 until 2006 when I started to build and fly electric instead of glow. They are so much better than glow in many ways it brought the hobby back to fun for me. My son was flying quite well at that time and he got me interested again. If I would not be building the planes I don't think I would just fly the RTF or Ready To Fly stuff that is widely sold today. ( I would most likely spend more time in the shop).

Cheers, JR

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## C-Bag

Man this stuff is taking me down memory lane that I'd not thought of in forever. You mention reeds JR. I had to LOL when you wrote that because somebody gave me a reed set and I had EXACTLY the same thing happen. I built some kind of low wing, like a Cherokee and had some cheap motor on it. My first throttle control. And I started the motor and all the surfaces started twitching every which way. That's when the guy who gave to me told me he could never get it to work right. Doh! Sure was pretty though.

That first flight with the 56 was the longest death spiral in history. Everybody on the field just froze waiting for the inevitable, and then to see it bounce on the gear and him set it down was kinda like that stunt guy who pretends he's drunk. Everybody just shook their head and started back up again.

I tell ya Frank, if you thought control line was boring, you just weren't having as fun as we had. Fly combat,two guys in the same circle with streamers tied to their planes going anywhere from 80 or 90 real mph to 120. The hot ticket was a Sneaker flying wing(all combat planes were just a wing with an elevator and an engine) that weighed nothing with a K&B 35. 120mph and would literally spin on its axis with a flick of the wrist. Way too much for me. But my brother ate guys for lunch with it. But when it went it, it was a cloud of balsa dust with engine several inches in the dirt. That K&B was a wicked engine. Felt like it had no compression. But nobody in his right mind flipped one of those things over without a "Chicken Stick". We didn't have electric starters. 

The other insane thing was the guy who was the head of the club would periodically pull out his pulse jet. It looked like a. Buzz bomb, and sounded like it, because it was the same kind of engine. It took a 3 man crew to pit. One guy straddled it and held on to the wings, and next to him a guy had a battery with a buzzer on a model T coil. One lead to the spark plug and one to ground. The last guy had a bicycle pump that had the end cut off and the rubber hose was pushed on to a fitting on the front of the intake. The pump forced air into a spray bar and the spark started it. Once the thing lit off you had something like 20'seconds to get it going because the tube would be cherry hot in seconds. It relied on moving through the air to keep the combustion tube from melting. So everybody had to know their stuff. I never held, but I did spark and pump several times. You had to be smooth and the spark guy had to switch off the box before he pulled his leads or he'd knock the holder into next week when he pulled his leads across the holders arm. And here he is holding this screaming bomb between his legs......it was intense. Most everything we flew took 60' lines,the jet took 70's and if I remember right they were heavier than what we used. That flew at something like 140, or 160mph. You could just shut it off by a quick jerk on the control. Once it started and got off we'd go behind the backstop and watch around the corner. Sheer adrenalin.

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jjr2001 (Jan 21, 2017)

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## Frank S

My crazy cousins and I decided we were going to build the plane to end all planes. by this time I had already acquired my lathe I think I was around 15 at the time of the build Don the oldest of us 4 came up with the Idea of constructing a Biplane with a 20 ft wingspan and powering it with a 2 stroke lawnmower engine Dwayne was 17 and made the prop in wood working class at school I modified the 3 1/2 Hp Clinton by stripping everything off that wasn't engine ground out the exhaust ports made a 90° intake manifold and put a carb off of a 6 Hp engine on it Doug the same age as I was was going to hold the twin line tether if the thing ever got off the ground. Anyway here we had this thing that weighed about 100 lbs with about 1/3 the total wing area as the Wright flyer and we guessed to have about 1/3 rd the Horsepower as well and less than 1/6th the weight no one on board so what could go wrong? It had to fly didn't it? Well yes and No. It did get off the ground, in fact it was well on its way to the stratosphere by the time it passed Doug who was running as fast as he could in front and a little to the side of it with the 2 100 ft ropes. By the time he felt a tug on the ropes it was too late it started to yank him off the ground so he lost his grip. with nothing to control it, there it went almost straight up falling over to one side then like a half crazed demon it heads back nearly straight for where we were watching in horror. when it hit the ground there was nothing left but scrap aluminum and fire wood
Don did go on and get his Aeronautic engineering degree then worked for Lockheed-Martin for 20 years 
We learned that farm boys really had no business building planes unless they were from a kit

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jjr2001 (Jan 21, 2017),

Paul Jones (Feb 2, 2017),

PJs (Jan 21, 2017)

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## C-Bag

I agree JR, the best thing about the hobby was building the planes. Flying was fun but tense. Our club was probably 3/4 airmen from Castle AFB just down the road and a smattering of us kids. When I look back it was the collective that made it work because we traded and sold stuff to each other all the time. That's how I got the reed set and plane and I have a fuzzy memory of taking it in to my hi school electronics class and selling it to somebody there. Most of our engines were used and one guy was working for the hobby store so we'd get deals there too. It was an old store and there were kits that had been sitting in storage forever.

I'd always loved aircraft and my uncle being a real pilot was of course my hero. He had flown models as a kid but his were all from plans because we're talking the 40's and they lived on a farm. Growing up the thing that obsessed me was before my uncle went into the Army Air Corp's his last model was of a P-82 Twin Mustang. It was the night fighter version all black. It had two Ohlsen & Rice 23's on it, the spark plug version, not glow. It hung on my G-pa's wall all my childhood. I'd look at that for hours. I have no idea where he got the clear canopys as I don't think it was a kit. My brother decided he had to fly it and talked my G-pa into it and nothing I said could talk either one of them out it. It turned out to be massively underpowered and once it lumbered off the ground the drag of the control lines pulled it into the circle and it did a sickening wing over and smacked into the asphalt. It was toast. Wish I'd have kept the engines.

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jjr2001 (Jan 21, 2017),

PJs (Jan 21, 2017)

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## jjr2001

Wow, 100 lb free flight biplane, wish I could have been there.
There was mention of pulse jet which reminded me of all the Popular Mechanics ads for plans on how to make one and later the RC modeler ads for where to buy one. Always thought they would be neat for RC but control line? That is like having a dragon on 70' wires. Hang on tight. 

Found a few youtube vids with some quite fast RC pulse jets..Way above my pay grade:








Pulse jets plus SR-71 with after burner

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C-Bag (Jan 22, 2017),

PJs (Jan 21, 2017)

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## PJs

Ok You guys, I was enjoying all the talk and memory lane stuff until I saw the mention of the Super Tiger 60 in Jr's post. My stuff was all U-Control and hand launch gliders but did it for a decade starting in 58' and long member of the AMA. Dad did A rat race, combat and stunt, and designed and built a custom Rat Racer that broke all the records in Germany (Sembach) using ST 60, a diamond airfoil like the 104's have with a tear drop fuselage. It also used a pressurize fuel bladder for the g's, which was new at the time. On 100' lines it would spin you like a top and pull your arm out of wack with the offset in the rudder to keep it taut and chasing you out of the circle. And with 5 other guys in the circle got pretty crazy at times, same with Combat like C-Bag said. Forgot what we clocked it at but was well over 100mph at the time. I also remember that ST60 bit me a few times through a glove getting it started for Dad. 

I did a little B rat (McCoy 35) and Jr stunt & combat, balloon bust and Hand Launch gliders which I loved and won all Germany champ with a Thermic B double dihedral, against adults when we were there.

Then you went and mentioned Pulsed Jet!! Saw a couple in Germany and more when we got back to the states, the most Awesome sound Ever in my book for a model airplane. Saw one running too lean one time, pull the tube anchor loose and bent up like a pretzel. You could see it turn red then yellow then white, Bink, wreechh. Watched a bunch of the YT stuff a while back, but those miniature Jet engines are the bomb of engineering in my other book! 

Over all I agree that it's the build I enjoy. Did a club contest one time and built Ryan PT22 with a Super Bee and we got to fly on the front lawn for the Shriner Kids in SF...the look on those kids faces was unforgettable and all those weeks of building it paled in comparison!

Frank, You continually blow me away with some of your crazy builds...Wow!

My only RC experience is recent with one of those baby copters (didn't end well) and my current Quad Copter Car, manageable with better trimming now but flew it into the branches of a tree while back but survived...still practicing but didn't get to build it!!

Thanks Guys, Great Stories and enjoying this immensely!!

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jjr2001 (Jan 21, 2017),

Paul Jones (Feb 2, 2017)

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## jjr2001

PJ,

That Super Tigre was the best 60 I ever had. Now you mention the McCoy .35..
My friend gave me a McCoy .35 when I could not even fly control line! He did not want it and it was too big for the little control line plane I was trying to fly with the good ole Cox .049. I wanted to see what this engine could do so I mounted it on a 1' length of 2x4 framing lumber and clamped that to a saw horse in the driveway pointed into the woods. Well after many attempts to start it she finally came alive. No throttle so at full bore she vibrated that C-clamp loose and sounded like a thrashing machine as it "mowed" through the woods cutting poplar, maple and wild cherry leaves and branches. Found it attached to the 2x4 about 150 feed into the woods as it finally ran out of fuel. I learned something about C-clamps that day!
We had a lot of fun growing up!

Fly Low But Not Too Low
JR

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PJs (Jan 22, 2017)

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## Frank S

PJs I can't entirely take the blame for the Bi-plane it wasn't my idea and about all I did for the build was take the lawnmower engine, strip it down to almost nothing polish out the exhaust ports, radically rework the intake and the reed valve add a larger carb and a hotter spark plug them machine a hub to mount the prop The plane was made by Don Doug and Dwayne.
Remember this was back in the mid 60s so if any photos still exist Don would be the one who has them

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PJs (Jan 22, 2017)

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## jjr2001

Time for some more build pics.
First photo shows a bus connector made from two terminal strip contacts. With 4 positions I can connect 4 #12 wires in parallel and be able to later unconnect them. I need 4 sets of these to connect the 4 speed controllers in parallel with the two batteries that I plan on using.

Second photo shows the primary battery to ESC (speed controllers) wiring with all 4 bus bars completed and heat shrink tubing applied.

Third photo shows the control signal wiring harness in the very back of the receiver area. That bunch of wiring is just to feed the signal to each speed controller and to provide power to the receiver. A diode has been added to isolate the power feeds from the ESC's to the receiver. With this setup I have 4 redundant power supplies that are diode isolated to power the receiver. I can loose power from three ESC's and still control the surfaces and steering.

Fourth photo shows the access hatches (3) for 2 batteries and 1 receiver. The cooling inlets are visible on the leading edge that has been partially formed.

Fifth photo is the present state of affairs with most of the wing sheeting complete. Like waiting for paint to dry!

Sixth photo is the 1/8" music wire landing gear. No retracts on this one.

Cheers, JR

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PJs (Jan 23, 2017)

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## PJs

Oh My JR, That must have been a site and a  :EEK!:  good package check after.  :Stick Out Tongue:  Funny sometimes how we learn about physics! Back in my days the ST60 was about the biggest you could get and remember it having just over 1hp. I see now the 90's have 2.5. Also remember experimenting with props on Dad's Rat Racer and seemed like we went just undersized with a 10x8 because we started mixing our own fuel then and could spin it a little tighter and get more giddyup once up in the air. Dad was POL officer then and knew such things and got the Sembach club on board because it was cheaper than premixed by a long shot. I still love the smell of nitro, castor oil and model airplane dope...but don't miss the prop dings when we went to nylon props, but more costly if you augured in...cranks aren't made for that kind of abuse.  :Big Grin: 

We used the McCoy's for my B Rat, combat and balloon bust because of that giddyup, but used Fox's (25-40's) for stunt back then. Didn't do too much with .049's till we came back to the states but did learn to fly with one...I glued that thing back together till the splinters were to small to work with. Seemed like I was caught in a continual loop from launch...ground hog day at it finest.  :Lol:  They can be real fun but a bit persnickety in my book, especially that Super Bee.

I had a couple of question about your XB-35 build (Beautiful BTW) and the extended shaft lengths on the motors. Are there any mid support bearings on them and How fast are you going to spin them? I can see now how valuable your layout/gluing table is!




> about all I did for the build was take the lawnmower engine, strip it down to almost nothing polish out the exhaust ports, radically rework the intake and the reed valve add a larger carb and a hotter spark plug them machine a hub to mount the prop



Taking no credit eh, ~¿@ for lifting your friend off the ground with a Xhp Clinton Dragon Mower you built...Good one Frank! Amazing build and story!!

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## C-Bag

Thanks for the vids JR! That sound.....wow. I kinda don't get those things control line or R/C, no throttle and going like crazy. The first video of the pulse he said it went lean, dunno. He was a lot jerkier at the controls than I ever saw John(the pulse jet owner) ever get away with. Any quick movements caused bubbles in the fuel line and that made it shut off. And yeah, it was a dragon by the tail and he had to really lean into it to not get dragged around. 

I've tried to fly some of those fast things on RealFlight and its crazy how quick it gets to that range where you can't tell which way it's headed visually. And you can cheat in RF and use the little magnified window to see which way it's oriented. In real life do you have somebody with binoculars helping you out? Truly above my pay grade and insurance rates as if you lose it at that speed you could kill somebody. 

The only challenge my uncle ever got whipped by was R/C choppers. When he passed his will said I could take pick of either his Kavan Jet Ranger or Ugly Stick w/an Enya 60. I took the Ugly Stick. Never flew it, never felt like I was qualified and the whole drive for R/C left me after he passed. But that Ranger 'bout killed him for real. He had my cousin holding the box while he was tuning the engine with it tethered. He wanted her to adjust the throttle and she hit the cyclic and the rotor clipped his arm! Took many stitches to close his arm back up. 

His first copter was an egg beater with a chain saw engine. He had just graduated from the tethers and was hovering successfully and all the sudden it went to full throttle and forward. He ducked out of the way and everybody else scattered except of his tiny wife who ran between two parked cars directly in front of it. She just cleared the cars and it plowed into her basically flat, vertical, whatever. She ended up on her face with it on her back with body spinning frantically. She was completely unscathed. Talk about lucky!!!

Great update pix JR. There is a lot of stuff that is not evident after the plane is built. Like all the wiring and the extension shafts on the motors. Also the air intakes for the cooling of everything.

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PJs (Jan 23, 2017)

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## jjr2001

PJ, I never brewed my own fuel but I did make some nice match head rocket motors. Great fun. I had some seamless aluminum tubing and plugged one end with a rounded dowel rod. Then stuffed the thing full of match heads. Used some hobby rocket motor fuse and light her off. Actually it was more like a mortar since I used a 5 foot length piece of 3/4 inch galvanized pipe for the launch tube. Woooosh and I could never find any of them. The made a nice smoke trail and again you could hear the leaves being ripped through. 


I do have extensions on the motors. They are 1/8 music wire encased in 5mm carbon fiber tubes. Took a couple of attempts to get them straight but they seem pretty good now. No center supports. I added one bearing for each shaft at the back end and used locktite to fix it to the music wire. Crazy fast on the motors. They are rated at 2200 Kv. So for each volt they rotate at 2200 rpm. With my 12 volt batteries they have a no load speed of 26,000 rpm. The props are small 3 blade 5x4 so they really need to spin up to get much thrust.

C-Bag, When the speed gets over about 90 mph I know it is not for me. Heck, I can loose orientation of my plane when it is going slow! I try to keep them in fairly close and keep the speed to 60-80 mph most of the time. I am not a speed guy. I have seen electrics pushing 160 mph and once a guy was flying with a glow engine at over 200mph. There are so many things that can and do fail on these models that I just don't care to fly that fast myself. 

The choppers are like flying swords. I saw two of them disintegrate at an RC flyin on the same day by the same guy. Seems he was missing the fasteners for the body. He started to really put on a show and the body hit the blades. Blades ended up 100 feet from the point of impact. Half hour later he was at it again and the same thing happened. Quick way to loose $1000.

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PJs (Jan 23, 2017)

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## C-Bag

Wow, JR the chopper guy was rich or something. How do you jump right back at it after something like that, or am I just a sissy? And then have the second one eat it and it sounds like in the same way. Some folk just don't have the patience or OCD  :Smile:  to build a long project like a chopper or an all balsa build like your wing. My brother was one and he had the good sense to know that after he had an engine mount he didn't dowel after gluing come off. Luckily there was nobody in front of it, but after that I did the building, he did the flying. He was 100x's the pilot I was but he had no patience for building. I also did the engine polishing. 

How did you decide on CF tubes to run the motor shafts through, and what are you using for lube? Good job on the gear and your wire former. This might be out in left field, but I've been using an old HF bushing driver kit I've had forever to form the different radii for my rod and wire projects. It's a easy way to pick and choose when I want a different radius. I first came on that when I wanted to make a new oven rack for my powdercoat oven bending 1/4" rod. And ever since it's really come in handy for all kinds of bending and forming.

Curious about CG, was it marked on the plans? Got to be super critical on something this radical I would think.

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jjr2001 (Jan 23, 2017),

PJs (Jan 23, 2017)

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## PJs

Thanks for the updated Pics JR! I can see it's been a ton of work to wire all that up and keep it neat, let alone handle those currents. Nice job on the 12Ga. coupler's! Was surprised to see the magnets for the hatches. I assume they hold up well in flight and keep the weight down. I don't have a good feeling for the length of those extension on the inboard motors but seem to me at those RPM's you could get some whip in the middle. Is the CF tube like a sleeve bearing with an ID of 5mm? Good idea on the loctite to the inner races to handle the torque and speeds. Looking forward to your next pics of the build!

Unfortunately I have to admit to a short stint in match head rockets/grenades. Still have all my body parts thank goodness. We used empty CO2 cartridges with the cap removed...it's a wonder we didn't lose a hand packing those things. Biggest was 3 strapped to a dowel and some how managed to light all three pretty close together...I think it ended up in the following week sometime/somewhere. Never found ours either. Did get into rocketry in college out in your neck of the woods because of the desert....chased them down on dirt bikes, Way Fun! Later when my son was about 8-9 we got into them again...great fun and after a year or so he built a beautiful FireFox and I built an SR-71. He took his to show and tell at school and the teacher called me to see if we would do a demo for the class. Was very cool and 2-3 classes set up in the bleachers and we lit off 3-4 for them, including the SR-71. They loved it and we got a charge for sharing our fun with them. Think he was a hero of the class after that.  :Cool:  

Funny thing is my oldest Gson got a kit for Christmas and now my sons candle has lit again and wants to dig them out of storage. Guess I will, because you are lighting mine with this model stuff again, although I have enough projects to keep me busy till I kick...but do like the twinkly lights and fun from the past. Think I still have a couple of Jasco/Jetco glider kits and other plans in storage as well as that old PT22 too.

Think I had my fill of scary choppers and speed would be an issue with me any more. Although I remember the A Speed guy's back in the day running berrylium pans on mono-lines. I did get to fly a club friends B Speed on mono-lines...got to be steady with that stuff and not over react on the push/pull. Dad's Rat was fast enough for me and that was on 100' lines...can't imagine doing that RC!!

I'm curious too about the CG on a Wing and what about torque from the motors...are they counter rotating? Also is there some kind of sync controller for them?

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C-Bag (Jan 23, 2017)

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## jjr2001

C-Bag,

Thanks for the bushing driver idea. I checked one out at HF and for $10.00 it is a quick way to get various radii.

I was fairly sure that the 3/32 shafts that the designer specified would have a tendency to whip. Actually the 1/8 music wire was pretty floppy also. So, I just used epoxy and added the CF tubes to the shafts. Quite stiff and I did not need bearings other than the prop end. Seems pretty good so far. CG is marked on the prints but I always look at that as a starting point. We will find the real CG in a grass field near the house prior to flight..( If I can get up the nerve to throw it!).

I think the chopper guy just wanted to perform for the crowd for the air show. It was an electric 4 day event and it was chopper time. They were limited to a 1 hour show each day at noon. The rest of the time it was all planes all day. Fun but with over 200 people there you did not get much time to fly and it was a bit dangerous. One day a fellow from Chicago was hit in the head by an electric A-10 that was taking off. Put 20 stitches in his head. Next year the same guy from Chicago was back and in the porta potty.....Someone hit that porta potty with another jet...Man did he get out of there. From then on he was known as an EDF magnet....

Cheers, JR

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C-Bag (Jan 23, 2017),

PJs (Jan 24, 2017)

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## jjr2001

Hi PJ,

The magnets are the neo type and they are extremely powerful. These are small .250 dia and maybe 1/16 thick. They are placed back to back so there are two magnets at each station. They hold so hard that I had to put a 6-32 blind nut in each hatch so that they can be removed. If this plane was going over 100 mph I would use rods for the front into a bulkhead and magnet the back side only. I tried to balance the torque on the motors by having them rotate cw and ccw on each side of the wing. Should be able to loose one, cut power and limp home.

The CF tube is about 5mm OD and about .125 ID. They are a fairly close sliding fit for the 1/8 music wire. Quite stiff once cured and I have not noticed any tendency to whip. I think they will work ok.

Co2 cartridge match head rocket! Wish I could have been there. SR-71 sounds very neat. Could add a small receiver and servo so it would be guided upon "re-entry".. Great fun.

My control line efforts were limited to the Ringmaster type with a .35 motor. Thought I was doing great to make figure 8's so I did not have to get dizzy going in circles.

I know what you mean about enough projects to last a lifetime. I am in the same boat...(airplane?)

Cheers, JR

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C-Bag (Jan 23, 2017),

PJs (Jan 24, 2017)

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## jjr2001

Picked up a fresh can of DAP LWS or light weight spackle for grain filler and after two sessions with that and some sanding we are ready for paint. I can't find the original DAP LWS anywhere. The new "improved" type has "primer" in it "so you do not have to prime" and that is hog wash. The original DAP would dry much faster and was very good at filling grain. It would last much longer in the can than this "new improved" variety. Oh well, I guess you just get to buy a new can of it each year! Oh yea, you still have to prime this stuff or you will get a very rough finish...

Landing gear has full time constant "adjustable" friction brakes installed. They are quite simple using aluminum for the plates and a bit of velcro (smooth fuzzy side only) applied to the aluminum plates. Friction is set when you install them. I only need a small braking force but I like to install two of them on the mains and not the nose wheel. It allows me more latitude on where I can touch down on the runway so I don't run off the end. Brass tubing was used for bushings for the plastic hubs. 

Now if it would just warm up a bit.

Cheers, JR

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C-Bag (Jan 26, 2017),

Paul Jones (Feb 2, 2017),

PJs (Jan 27, 2017)

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## C-Bag

Makes you wonder what's up with products like that. Is it an EPA reg or just cutting corners to add a couple of cents per unit or somebody just had a bright idea? Either way they always make it sound like it's an improvement which it seldom is and there's just too many products that if they'd leave it alone and spend less on useless advertising they could actually make the 2c that way.

I'm trying to think back how we made filler/sealer. I don't think we bought any(too cash challenged). I just assumed you'd mono coat the wing(is that dating me?) but with electric you don't need special paint like dope do you? Looks like you're going to spray it, that's why the mention of the temps eh?

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jjr2001 (Jan 26, 2017),

PJs (Jan 27, 2017)

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## jjr2001

Paint whenever I can. I just prefer a paint finish to Monokote. I know, it is heavier. But that is ok. I have been known to fly with double batteries for more stability in the wind and it helps.

Micro ballons is a fiberglass "powder" that can be mixed with paint or glue and used as filler but I still like the LWS. Even with the paint added, if you wait long enough it will sand out ok.

Cheers, JR

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C-Bag (Jan 27, 2017),

PJs (Jan 27, 2017)

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## C-Bag

My current way to appease my aircraft jones is through the newest version of the Russian WWII sim IL2. So far they have done the Battle of Stalingrad, Battle of Moscow, working on the Battle Kuban and the next theater change will be the Pacific. The forums are fascinating for all kinds of history, specs and the endless discussion for flight dynamics. There is a lot of bias and sometimes it gets pretty heated. 

Every time there is a new theater announced there is discussion of upcoming aircraft. Because of the focus being for several years all Russian and German aircraft with one lend lease(P 40) and one Italian allied aircraft, with the new front being the Pacific the Zero has come up. Of course there is a LOT discussion pro and con but this doc was posted and I found it fascinating in that like the Russian aircraft there was not that much real info on it until the net came along. 



It is long and there is a Japanese bias I think on some of the claims but overall it is and incredible inside look at the development of the A6M. The fact that came out relevant to the XB35 was the use of washout as being the secret weapon to the Zero's ability to out turn anything in the air at the time. And it seemed it wasn't just simple washout it was a spiral which was not duplicated by the US until well after the war. 

I knew very little about especially the Russian aircraft and their designers before the sim. It has been very interesting to go through the different time frames, Moscow, Stalingrad, and now Kuban with their corresponding aircraft and series and how different they each fly. Because of the fact the IL2 team is small and the WWII sim community being small we have been able to lobby to expand the lineup of aircraft from just fighters, bombers and ground attack to transport(Ju52 and hopefully C-47/Li2) to hopefully spotter aircraft like the Storch and Po2 and others. This sim community is a very dedicated bunch and have worked hard to expand the function of the game by providing maps and addons and in some cases like the semi failed Cliffs of Dover IL2 Battle of Britian sim, through independent work fixed it and now are going to expand it working with the main team. 

Add to this all kinds of content like specific historical missions and it gets pretty involved depending on how proficient you want to get. I'm a fairly poor fighter pilot, better ground pounder and mostly love to fly the huge detailed maps. I'd love to have the Storch to be able to do STOL into the rough terrain of the Eastern Front. And now that they have updated the engine to DX 11 the door is wide open for virtual.

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## jjr2001

IL2 great sim. I have an old copy and used it before I started flying RC. Along with that I had Microsoft flight sim (several reincarnations) Combat flight sim, at least 2 versions, and many others. The best of the best was probably Falcon 4. You have to learn the plane and the counter measures or you get the message "Archer Inbound" after which you are dead! I really liked that sim but had a lot of trouble staying alive very long. Falcon 4 is still maintained by dedicated users but the original producer bowed out of the sim. Even Real Flight had an on line mode but mine is so old no-one flies it on line any more.

I may just have to look into the new IL2 sim. Sounds like fun. (no Archers I hope..he he)

Washout is used in a lot of models. I don't know who invented it but they sure knew how wings work!.

Painting on the final coat of XB-35 special stealth material. Should be ready to fly Monday.

Cheers, JR

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## C-Bag

I came to IL 2 1946 , late, a couple of years ago. It is good but VERY dated especially graphically. The planes for the most part feel like most of the sims I've flown except for the ancient Fighter Duel. There's just the feeling like being on rails or sitting in your chair. Fighter Duel was a amazing, it ran great on my old 386. Each plane felt and flew different and there was readout and blackout realist stalls and spins and most amazing was the buffeting when you got close on somebody's tail. 

Same with the interim sim Cliffs of Dover. CLOD looks stunning but the flight has not got any feeling. The thing the new IL2 excels at is imparting somehow the feeling of flying. The sound is pretty amazing too like the wind noise at high angles of attack and of course the engine and guns. A real high percentage of the dedicated are pilots in real life are to be found on the forums and on the different servers.

And like me, feel like jets are somehow not as challenging. Having to catch your foe unaware or somehow out maneuvering him then through good old gunnery defeating him much more satisfying than fire and forget. In expert mode there is a lot of engine management depending on the plane all while trying not to die. Check it out: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com

"Special stealth material"? Flat black or? Can't wait for the final pix and how it flies. Good luck!

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PJs (Jan 28, 2017)

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## C-Bag

Deleted repeat

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## PJs

Looking forward to seeing your painted beauty JR! Added a grand daughter to the tree last night, may be busy for a few days.  :Cool:

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C-Bag (Jan 28, 2017)

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## C-Bag

Hey congrats G-pa Wiz! One of each, how cool is that!

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PJs (Jan 30, 2017)

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## jjr2001

Congrats PJ

C-Bag, my "special stealth coating" is just ACE hardware silver paint. Not exactly aluminum but ok for a flying model. Stealth paint means that it is hard for me to see in the air! CG came out right on the designers mark and that is with 5200 mah 3 cell Lipo (2ea. 3 cell 2600 in parallel_. Six or seven minute flight should be the norm.
That is a lot more power than the original model.

Pictures of the completed bird. Ran her up with all 4 turning and I do not think that 4 lbs 6 oz will be too over weight.

Here they are:

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Paul Jones (Feb 2, 2017),

PJs (Jan 30, 2017)

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## C-Bag

JR that is just awesome! I hope it flies like it looks. Waiting for the vid.

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## C-Bag

You know looking at that thing, it looks so slick how in the world are you going to get it down to some kind of sane approach speed? There's no flaps or spoilers......be very interesting me thinks.

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## Frank S

C-bag it would probably flip it on its noodle but since it has electrics, 2 of the motors could probably be reversed to a low speed causing negative thrust

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## C-Bag

You're probably right Frank. But landing is the trickiest part of flying for me, and it always seems things happen too fast as your getting close to the ground. But JR seems more adept at this whole thing so it will probably be no big deal.

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## Frank S

> You're probably right Frank. But landing is the trickiest part of flying for me, and it always seems things happen too fast as your getting close to the ground. But JR seems more adept at this whole thing so it will probably be no big deal.



I know you're right. One time while in Australia A mate of mine decided the best way for me to see the country was by plane.
So at the rental shop the guy asked him who's your pilot today mate? to this he replied that big yank out there getting ready to open the cowl to inspect the engine. 
The rental guy yelled out to me Yank You got to slam the latch real hard or it will come open on take off. And what ever you do don't give it full throttle if you're air speed in under 55 I just had the mounting plate replaced last week.
Later while Cullen and I were flying along I asked why did the guy ask who was your pilot today.
Aw mate it is an old joke between him and I, They pulled my ticket for 6 months for landing cross ways to the runway.The reason he didn't ask to see your's was he knows that I'm going to be doing the driving anyway. He just wanted to hear me say I had a pilot so he could have a partially legal out for when I try to crash this thing.again The air speed thing was because this thing has more horse power than a bloody crop duster it will climb vertical till it runs out of air

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PJs (Jan 30, 2017)

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## jjr2001

> You know looking at that thing, it looks so slick how in the world are you going to get it down to some kind of sane approach speed? There's no flaps or spoilers......be very interesting me thinks.



Well that is what keeps it interesting! I knew this was going to be a heavy bird so I did not add flaps or drag rudders which could have been 3 or 4 more ounces. The plane might be ok with that but I did not want to add the extra weight. Trying to keep it simple. Taking her out for a "taxi" test today. I do have 700 feet of asphalt for landing and some pretty long run off at the ends but I hope not to need that.

I am also trying a new feature on this plane which I will call dynamic braking. With the props turning slowly there is considerable drag created as opposed to stopping them completely. So when landing I need to keep a very low throttle setting after touch down. Ahhhh what fun!!

Cheers, JR

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PJs (Jan 30, 2017)

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## PJs

Nice looking bird JR. Looks like the real thing with that paint! Like the way it shimmy's in the sun and those muted decals are a nice touch. That color silver is going to be a bit tricky to see in the distance for sure, especially coming or going...definitely _Stealth_ ;-) with hardly any noise from the motors. That nose on shot gives it some provenance with your gear. BTW that friction bearing for the wheels idea is pretty cool, haven't ever seen anything like it. Is the nose wheel articulating for taxi? Seems like it would have a pretty big turn radius with out it.

Terrific build JR and inspiring!! Good luck with your test flight and love to see some video if you can. Thanks for sharing it with us!

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## C-Bag

Dynamic braking does work to a certain extent JR w/piston engines, but it will be interesting to see how it works with your electric motors. I'm glad they have put regeneration when you let off the throttle on our Chevy Volt as that causes the drag like an engine. I got to pondering Frank's reversers idea and wondered if you could even do that with these controls. Of course there's no way you'd want to do that in the air and it sounds like you have more than enough runway anyway. Just more silly armchair second guessing on my part. I hope it all goes good. 

I started watching Plane Ressurection on Netflix and to their credit there's none of the stupid half baked internal conflict I've seen in the car shows and guns shows I've tried to watch. Lots of history and details about the plane and the restorer. An interesting tidbit was early on the the Battle of Britain they decided to help spotters identify friendlies was to paint the bottom of one wing black and the other wing white. Maybe this would help with your "stealth" as I think I would lose orientation of this plane very fast  :Smile:  

Another coinkydink in reference to Frank's story was one of the two restorers was talking about flying all over Australia and finding a P51 to restore. Sounds like an incredible trip. 

My very first flight was while working at that rice ranch I mentioned. There was an old hanger on the back of the property where there had been a crop dusting operation but had folded decades before. It was where they stored the 6 John Deer 7700 harvesters. In the evenings as I left I started seeing this small plane buzzing around the back of the hanger. I went out to prep one of the 7700's and there sat a Aeronca Chief with no doors. It was the one I'd seen buzzing the rice fields. 

Turned out they were chasing off the mud hens with it and then when the mud hens got used to it they would actually fly up next to them and shot gun them in the air! That's why no doors. Turned out it was a character I'd known in high school and one night while I was working on the harvester he showed up for one of their flights. He asked if I wanted to go for a quick turn around the patch, like a dummy I said yeah. It was bad enough it was all cloth covered and the door if was there was not much, but without the door I was literally hanging out as it kinda wrapped around you and your feet were at an angle to be on the little floorboard. He made sure I had my seatbelt on at least. The strip was where they kept their horses since the crop dusters had flown the coop so was rough as a cob. We took out of the hanger and started for the line of eucalyptus trees/creek that was one end of the "runway". The other end went out over the road and had no obstructions so I assumed we'd go down to the trees and turn around and take off over the road. 

Nope, no run up, no stop and check, just ball to the wall straight for the trees! I knew this guy was crazy, and he kept looking at me as we barreled towards the trees which were literally at the end of the runway. We lifted off seems right before the trees that were basically a solid wall that was a 100' taller than us and did a hard left bank(I could look at him and see the ground through his missing door) and paralleled the line of trees and out over the fields, climbing the whole time. We did a big circle and came back at the trees, all the while him yelling at me "when the dusters used to be here they kept the trees trimmed" and he skimmed the top of the trees and dove what seemed like straight down where all I could see was the runway/pasture through the wind screen and what seemed like the last possible second pulled up and we floated down in front of the hanger. Luckily I'd already gone to the bathroom but I can truly say I'd never been so terrified in my whole life. I never even tried to fly in a plane again till I went to aircraft school some 10yrs later.

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## jjr2001

Sounds like he just wanted to get a reaction from you. Nothin like open air flying!. I never did any and won't be doing that any time soon.

Well I did not get the chance to use "dynamic braking. I did all my braking prior to landing. Took the bird to the field today, trimmed it for a nice straight takeoff using my new brakes. That worked great. First run was all over the place and then I increased braking tension. The extra tension really helped the straight line takeoff.

Here is the takeoff vid: 



The reason for the takeoff only vid is that the landing did not happen. It was more of a violent auger into the earth with the aircraft totally re-kitted. My camera guy had just stopped filming when the snap happened. Almost more parts than what I built it with..

Anyhow here is the analysis:
I needed to add down trim as the flight progressed, I was only up to about 20 clicks and not done yet but she 
was gaining too much altitude. ( the bird wanted to climb). Lateral trim was good at 16 clicks. I let the speed get too slow as I was adjusting elevator trim and then SNAP...Violent. Ok, so now we need to make a new one. This time I am going to use my Hot Wire Foam Cutter and make an N9M. (only two motors) but using the same plans. I had plenty of power. Actually it was way more power than necessary.

While I had the CG just a bit nose heavy per the location on the drawings the bird was tail heavy which is why the constant climb which I tried to counter with down trim. If I would have succeeded in getting trimed without the crash It would have needed two or three ounces of lead in the nose for good flights.

Next one will be lighter and I will place the CG at least 1/2 inch forward of the indicated CG on the plans.

Cheers, JR

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KustomsbyKent (Apr 23, 2017),

Paul Jones (Feb 2, 2017)

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## C-Bag

Yup, he was the kinda guy if it was a motorcycle, I would said no thanks. Somehow I just was not even expecting what he did and I thought I kept my face still. But I'm not a poker player so he probably got his money worth. I kept expecting to hear one of those two drunken bozos would blow off a wing strut or something, but they never did take themselves out of the gene pool while I was around.

Man, that's a heart breaker JR! I don't blame you going the foam route for #2. I've been burned more than once on screwy CG on plans. Sounds like it was way off. But talk about a take off! No joke you had way more power than needed. That thing looked like it could have gone vertical and never slowed down. Did it just go into a flat spin? In a certain way I'm glad you didn't do a movie of the auger. I would have HAD to watch. Kinda like a train wreck.

The receiver, batteries and motors ok? 

Better luck next time.

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## Frank S

ouch! augured on first flight,sorry to hear that. Great takeoff though

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## PJs

Man JR, So sorry to hear that it augured in hard on the first flight, but wow that thing had some skadidlehop on take off when you put the power to it. Thanks for sharing the take off with us anyway, it was spectacular in it's own right. Hopefully you are able to salvage the power plant and controls for round 2.

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Paul Jones (Feb 2, 2017)

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## jjr2001

Thanks guys,
Motors are ok, shafts ok, receiver ok. The batteries are "toast". Pretty smashed on the front end and one was shorted internally. So we just need new batteries and a bit of work to get the next one in the air.

Cheers, JR

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PJs (Jan 31, 2017)

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## KustomsbyKent

That's disheartening to see it auger in on the first flight, whew! You built a beautiful looking plane! Those flying wings have always been a favorite of mine. Good luck building the second version and I look forward to seeing pictures and video of it!

I've been out of the RC airplanes for a while now, but hoping to get back into it sometime.

I remember as teenagers, my twin brother and I were into RC planes, scraping together enough money to run them. We had a trainer plane we flew a decent amount, and one time my brother was flying it, had it way up high and got disoriented with it. He literally augured it in with full throttle, full aileron (trying to save it), and disintegrated the plane. A big poof of dirt from a neighboring field was what indicated that it touched ground! We did salvage the nitro engine, and radio gear, and the tail feathers. Everything else was shredded!
My brother was a good builder, but as a flyer, not so much.
Now i'm working on big vehicle that's radio controlled, and thanks to my experience as a teenager with RC stuff has made this project feasible.
All Terrain Track Chair (ATTC) - Kustom's by Kent

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## jjr2001

Well the new one is about half done. It will be foam core with only 2 motors and the addition of two vertical stabilizers. 
When painted yellow on the top and gray on the bottom it should look something like the Northrup N9M. 

Neat chair, looks like it could go just about anywhere.

Cheers, JR

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KustomsbyKent (Apr 24, 2017)

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