# Best Homemade Tools >  Home made horizontal milling machine.

## tonyfoale

I started making mechanical things around 1960 when I was 16, it was electronic things before that. One of the tools that I made early on was a small horizontal milling machine. I remember using it on some jobs but for the life of me, nearly 60 years later, I can't remember why I made it. A vertical mill would have been more useful. such is the foolishness of youth I guess. I made wooden patterns and had the pieces cast at an iron foundry, most of the machining was done on my Myford lathe. The amount of stuff that has been made on Myfords across the world is staggering. A year or so later I bought a regular size horizontal machine at auction which I converted to a vertical machine by making a head from welded steel plate.

 This is the only picture that I have of my workshop from the early 1960s.

It was in a wooden box previously used by furniture shippers, and was very crowded. Unfortunately the little homemade mill is not visible, it was hiding behind the one converted to vertical. The subject of the photo was really an engine dynamometer that I built from a torque convertor, not the machine tools.
I was living in Australia then but I moved to England in 1971. I was limited on what I could ship over but the little mill was small enough to take. I never did get it up and running in England, I had no use for it basically. Then in the late 1980s I moved to Spain and the little mill trailed along too. Until a few months ago it just languished on the floor of my workshop here, talking up space and getting covered in dust and anything else that fell on it.

 Here it is on the floor next to the filing cabinet.

It stayed there until a few months ago when I got the idea that I could turn it into a small surface grinder, maybe not high precision but useful nonetheless. When I first got it up on a bench it looked in a pretty sorry state, rusty etc. I wasn't very hopeful. Here are a couple of photos as it was.

 

However, it was actually in pretty good nick. What looked at first sight to be rust etc. just turned out to be decades worth of grime congealed on the protective grease that I covered it in back in 1971 in preparation for its long sea voyage. The following is a succession of photos during the new build up after cleaning. I think that the sequence shows the construction pretty well, without much explanation. Before assembly I thought that it would be a good idea to check everything for flatness and squareness so that with better machinery now I could correct any original errors. Much to my surprise there was nothing that needed re-machining.

 

 

 

 

Finally mocked up to see how it might look as a surface grinder.



I haven't actually finished it off or tested it as a surface grinder because it occurred to me that if I swapped the head with my lathe tool post grinder, and added a spin indexer I could have a very capable Tool and Cutter grinder. I did that and it works a treat, but that will have to be the subject of another post. In the meantime here is a teaser.

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anaspan (Nov 21, 2018),

baja (Dec 18, 2020),

bigtrev8xl (Dec 20, 2016),

bvd1940 (Dec 24, 2016),

C-Bag (Dec 16, 2016),

Charron63 (Nov 30, 2017),

emu roo (Nov 18, 2022),

Frank S (Dec 16, 2016),

HobieDave (Jul 18, 2021),

Jon (Dec 23, 2016),

JRock (Apr 6, 2018),

KustomsbyKent (Jan 11, 2018),

lassab999 (Jul 18, 2022),

markcawston (Jun 24, 2019),

MeJasonT (Jan 12, 2018),

mr mikey (Jul 18, 2022),

Okapi (Dec 24, 2016),

Paul Jones (Dec 16, 2016),

penca (Dec 25, 2016),

pennswoodsed (Jan 2, 2017),

PJs (Dec 16, 2016),

Redddog (Sep 16, 2018),

redearthbonsai (Jul 12, 2018),

rlm98253 (Jan 11, 2018),

Scotsman Hosie (Dec 18, 2020),

Seedtick (Dec 23, 2016),

that_other_guy (Dec 31, 2018),

thoms_here (Jan 14, 2017),

Tonyg (Mar 19, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 16, 2016),

Vyacheslav.Nevolya (Dec 19, 2016)

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## C-Bag

That unit caught my eye in your previous post and I wondered where it came from. I just assumed it was some old commercial benchtop unit of unknown origin. You read my mind as I was going to ask who made it. That's really cool you made it and hung on to it as you moved all over the world  :Smile:

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Paul Jones (Dec 18, 2016),

Scotsman Hosie (Dec 18, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 16, 2016),

Vyacheslav.Nevolya (Dec 19, 2016)

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## Frank S

Very nice build actually a superb build for your at the time stated age. And a great restoration of a machine you actually knew the detailed history of each and every part on the machine. 
As far as the usefulness of a horizontal mill goes I used to leave the Rt angle adapter on my J head Bridgeport for months on end until I finally got hold of a Cincinnati #5

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Paul Jones (Dec 18, 2016)

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## Toolmaker51

> Very nice build actually a superb build for your at the time stated age. And a great restoration of a machine you actually knew the detailed history of each and every part on the machine. 
> As far as the usefulness of a horizontal mill goes I used to leave the Rt angle adapter on my J head Bridgeport for months on end until* I finally got hold of a Cincinnati #5*



I'm thinking, it's more likely the Cinncy#5 got a-holt of you, Frank S. Once you walked by it, the affair was on. 
Sure has occurred to me, oft enough. Who are we to resist 10k pounds of iron?
Real horizontals are where it's at for boring. Why?
The part is always supported over the Y axis ways, not the sag beyond saddles of X. The engineering term is called 'Abbe'.

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baja (Dec 18, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Dec 18, 2020)

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## Toolmaker51

> I started making mechanical things around *1960 when I was 16*, it was electronic things before that. One of the tools that I made early on was a small horizontal milling machine. I remember using it on some jobs but for the life of me, nearly 60 years later, I can't remember why I made it. A vertical mill would have been more useful. such is the foolishness of youth I guess. *I made wooden patterns and had the pieces cast at an iron foundry*, most of the machining was done on my Myford lathe. The amount of stuff that has been made on Myfords across the world is staggering. A *year or so later* I bought a regular size *horizontal machine at auction which I converted to a vertical machine by making a head* from welded steel plate....



*Like 17 years old!*
Tony, you are knocking us dead! 
I saddens me that so many younger minds will NEVER sense this kind of endeavor, investment, or satisfaction. Who decided vocations were no longer critical!
Certain that those generating STEM education see the light.

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baja (Dec 18, 2020),

Paul Jones (Dec 18, 2016),

PJs (Dec 17, 2016),

rlm98253 (Jan 17, 2018),

Scotsman Hosie (Dec 18, 2020)

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## Frank S

> I'm thinking, it's more likely the Cinncy#5 got a-holt of you, Frank S. Once you walked by it, the affair was on. 
> Sure has occurred to me, oft enough. Who are we to resist 10k pounds of iron?
> Real horizontals are where it's at for boring. Why?
> The part is always supported over the Y axis ways, not the sag beyond saddles of X. The engineering term is called 'Abbe'.



Yep. that old machine had a few issues from abuse when I got it for the then scrap price of $35.00 per ton. But is still did what I needed which was to hang a gang of 8 6" diameter .500 slitting cutters on the arbor set the depth of cut the feed and the RPM at the begining of the clamping fixture loaded with 2x3x2 blocks of 12L14 flip on the coolant pumps the main motor engage the feed then go to lunch when we returned it was time to set the next loaded fixture or clamp a plate over it and flipped it over removed the now top plate and start the process over again 
A whole lot faster than many of the so called production CNC machine shops could do the job at the time I had a 30% higher profit margin @ a 25% lower cost to the customer than my nearest competitor due largely to my taking time to make up a couple of fixtures for many or the runs. I wish I still had that wore out old machine it made me a lot of money I do still have my 5000 lb Clereman drill press though but it sat outside for 3 years before I got back from Kuwait so it needs a lot of work that would not have been required if they had at least greased it down and tarped it

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baja (Dec 18, 2020),

Paul Jones (Dec 18, 2016),

Scotsman Hosie (Dec 18, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 17, 2016)

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## tonyfoale

Thanks guys. As a newbie on this forum I was not sure what sort of posts were of interest to the rest of you. In the evenings when I sit down for an after dinner coffee, I pickup a laptop and start typing rather than watching some boring TV programme which my wife has on. I have been meaning to document some of this stuff for years and finding this forum has kicked me into action so I thank it for that. The other night I made a list of possible items to post about and it looks like I won't run out anytime soon.
A question. Is it OK to post about non-mechanical things? For example I made a flow bench which is largely mechanical like other devices but some of these tools need electronics, either home-made or using devices like Arduinos, to enable them to work. Are forum members also interested in those details?

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baja (Dec 18, 2020),

HobieDave (Mar 11, 2020),

Paul Jones (Dec 18, 2016),

PJs (Dec 17, 2016),

redearthbonsai (Jul 12, 2018),

Scotsman Hosie (Dec 18, 2020),

that_other_guy (Dec 31, 2018),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 17, 2016)

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## Frank S

Tony you will find that when it comes to articles or in fact artifacts made by the human hands the 15,000+ members of these forums are just about the most eclectic group you will ever have the pleasure of finding concentrated in one place.
The answer to your question would be electronics are absolutely a major contribution to the workings of homemade tools.
You will also if you haven't already discovered that more often than not the end postings to many threads morph into some very interesting sometimes informative although once in a while controversial collections of information which otherwise might have remained unknown, but some will find useful in their endeavors, or which will create a spark of future creativity

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baja (Dec 18, 2020),

Paul Jones (Dec 18, 2016),

PJs (Dec 17, 2016),

Scotsman Hosie (Dec 18, 2020),

tonyfoale (Dec 17, 2016)

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## C-Bag

I'll second what Frank said and say check out this ongoing adventure: http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/g...ls-lathe-31441

It takes a little while but swiftly heads off into some deep electronics with Rendoman and PJs(the Wiz) as they hash out a audio plasma tweeter. There has been a ton of views but not a lot of comment outside of the primaries. You'll find that here there are a lot of folks lurking, but us usual suspects that have commented here plus some others are the ones most likely to comment. I have to say there has been a bump up in postings and interaction here recently. So who knows what else will change. I am not as adept at electronics as others here but is definitely interested and would love to see the flow bench and some Arduino projects to name a few.
Carry on.

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baja (Dec 18, 2020),

Paul Jones (Dec 18, 2016),

PJs (Dec 17, 2016),

tonyfoale (Dec 17, 2016),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 17, 2016)

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## Toolmaker51

eliminating errant double post

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## Toolmaker51

Mr. Foales's "Is it OK..." and responses like
"...caught my eye..."
"...you will find..." 
"...threads morph into some very interesting sometimes informative..." or "most eclectic group...concentrated in one place."
and "...lot of folks lurking, but us usual suspects that have commented here plus some others are the ones most likely to comment"
Those just begin, barely, to typify what you'll find, and participants enjoy here. There are categories for ANYTHING you care to post.
And we offer humor occasionally. Your own "shaped as it is for a deeply technical reason. It's the way that it came out of the scrap box." caught on to that readily.

Kind of like a family dinner party. The real action isn't at the main table; the interaction is located elsewhere; most call it 'the kid's table'. Conformity and expectations don't seem to be what makes this work. And anywhere your cursor lands and highlight a name or avatar; you can peer into what makes individuals tick. 
A stunning group, to be sure.

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C-Bag (Dec 18, 2016),

olderdan (Dec 18, 2016),

Paul Jones (Dec 18, 2016),

PJs (Dec 18, 2016)

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## Frank S

"Kind of like a family dinner party. The real action isn't at the main table; the interaction is located elsewhere; most call it 'the kid's table'."
I hope that I never grow up. which just reminded me of something I saw my grand mother do on a coal oil stove one winter. weather turned off very cold so G'ma as per her usual daily chores after breakfast had just finished cleaning up the 6 burner Butane cook stove but still had the fire going in the very old even at that time, coal oil stove it didn't have an oven just the small flat top with 4 holes for pots to sit in. Since everyone was going to be house bound for the day she decided to make stove top cookies. I don't know or probably just don't remember her whole process but I do remember the cookies because the snow had blown deep against the house effectively blocking the doors All of us were sitting around trying to watch the 1 channel we could get on the TV when G'ma yelled from the kitchen that she needed help to remove the pot from the stove because her cookies were going to burn. OK she got the help the cookies must have turned out fine. I don't remember anyone ever complaining about burned cookies. The post about the kids table somehow brought that memory to mind , that and the fact that the wind chill here is now in the lower teens with slight flurries outside since the electronic controller on my Propane oven has decided to go south for the winter I am stuck with only the 4 burners on top I'm wanting cookies My wife grew up on a farm as well but has never heard of stove top cookies so I'm going to attempt to make cookies tomorrow while we are house bound not due to snow but just because there really is no good excuse to get out in the -0° wind chill

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C-Bag (Dec 18, 2016),

MeJasonT (Jan 12, 2018),

olderdan (Dec 18, 2016),

Paul Jones (Dec 18, 2016),

PJs (Dec 18, 2016),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 18, 2016)

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## C-Bag

"kids table" indeed!........I resemble that remark..........food fight!!!!!!!!!!

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MeJasonT (Jan 12, 2018),

Paul Jones (Dec 19, 2016),

PJs (Dec 18, 2016),

Toolmaker51 (Dec 18, 2016)

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## Toolmaker51

About stove top cookies, I'm not familiar. My paternal Grandmother had humble origins, and raised 4 kids thru the Depression. No longer on the farm, but cooked woodstove in what were outskirts of Kansas City, passing away in her 90's. Thus three younger generations were treated with all manner of kitchen wonders. While her situation improved greatly, she often 'celebrated' her past and teaching 'us' simple joys. One memory is a rectangular steel plate, blackened with use but still flat and teflon-slick, on a gas range. She fried cornmeal paste [less water than mush] around 1/2" thick x 4"; topped with homemade chili & beans, shredded cheese and onions. Same plate also made buckwheat pancakes; batter sat overnight to raise a frothy mixture in the morning. Crispy edges, fried on lard and white corn syrup.
Safe bet Dad, Sister, and I are last to make either in our three separate locations. Fear simple cuisine lost on the others.
Milling machines morphs into comfort food; what rails?

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olderdan (Dec 18, 2016)

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## Frank S

Comfort food exactly, and you know if anyone tried to follow my rails they would be better off trying to calculate the probability of locating the beginning and end of infinity to the billionth power in base 67
OK cookies made using the stove top a flat cast iron skillet and a 10" cast iron skillet 
the bottom skillet was heated on very low heat just about as low as the flame would go.
The top skillet was heated to very hot using the flame set at its max 

The snikerdoodle dough was chilled in the freezer for 15 minutes then spooned onto the un-greased flat skillet then the other skillet was placed over it forming an oven of sorts and allowed to cook for a few minutes they turned out well enough for a first try 
And before anyone asks many years ago when I bought my cast iron skillets I used a 5" random orbital sander on then progressively going to a finer grit until I had as near to a mirror polish as possible on cast iron I then fire cured them with cooking oil. before I ever used them. nothing sticks in them not even cheese

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Paul Jones (Dec 19, 2016)

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## Jon

Congratulations tonyfoale - your Horizontal Milling Machine is the Tool of the Week!

An unusual build; not sure whether to list it as a horizontal milling machine, a surface grinder, or a tool and cutter grinder. Its provenance and longevity probably pushed it above some other excellent entries this week, as well as its ability to keep morphing into different tools.

Other nice entries this week included a Wood Lathe by connan, a Screw Size Gauge by mklotz, and a MT02 Center Drill by Cascao. There were some other good builds by tonyfoale this week, including methods for Cylinder Boring and Tailstock Alignment. Finally, there's also a rare but not yet completed Vapor Blasting Cabinet by archimeech in the works.

tonyfoale - you'll be receiving one of our official HomemadeTools.net T-shirts:


Please PM me a mailing address, black/white color choice, and size preference, and I'll get it mailed out shortly.

And, we've added the wrench-on-pedestal award to the awards showcase in your postbit, visible beneath your username:




Congrats again and nice job!  :Thumbs Up:

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## tonyfoale

> Congratulations tonyfoale - your Horizontal Milling Machine is the Tool of the Week!



Wow, as a very new member here I wasn't expecting that. Many thanks, I am happy that other people like my work. I do intend to make a full post about the Tool & Cutter aspect and demonstrate how using a little maths can simplify the design without compromising function. 




> you'll be receiving one of our official HomemadeTools.net T-shirts:
> Please PM me a mailing address, black/white color choice, and size preference, and I'll get it mailed out shortly.



It gets better. Jon, how do I PM you, I couldn't find a link?

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## Jon

You can click on my username, above my avatar, and then select "Private Message".

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## crazypj

[QUOTE=tonyfoale;81673I have been meaning to document some of this stuff for years and finding this forum has kicked me into action so I thank it for that. The other night I made a list of possible items to post about and it looks like I won't run out anytime soon.
A question. Is it OK to post about non-mechanical things? For example I made a flow bench which is largely mechanical like other devices but some of these tools need electronics, either home-made or using devices like Arduinos, to enable them to work. Are forum members also interested in those details?[/QUOTE]

I really hope you do post about 'EVERYTHING'. I didn't read much about you until probably late 70's early 80. There are only a couple of people I 'trust'for information. Leon Moss was one, David Vizard and yourself. I used to build stuff 'all the time' (mainly because I was broke growing up in South Wales in the 60's/70's (I was 3 in 1960  :Lol: )

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## Okapi

Hi Tony,
As a lover of those ancient milling machines, I think you've made a very good job, in my workshop is hi big sister as I suppose, mine is in W20 broach and weights about 300 kilograms, a very precise tool with that important point for me , the longest deplacement in vertical axis I have on those small milling machines.
I wish you a nice end of year, for us it's "Joyeux Noël et bonne année".
Pierre

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PJs (Dec 24, 2016)

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## bvd1940

One heck of a nice job and from the way back time.

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tonyfoale (Dec 24, 2016)

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## tonyfoale

> I really hope you do post about 'EVERYTHING'. I didn't read much about you until probably late 70's early 80. There are only a couple of people I 'trust'for information. Leon Moss was one, David Vizard and yourself. I used to build stuff 'all the time' (mainly because I was broke growing up in South Wales in the 60's/70's (I was 3 in 1960 )



I am not familiar with Moss's stuff but I like Vizard's. In general good sensible, everyday, down to earth advice. He has been around the block a few times. Occasionally it falls down with some basic physics but his vast experience makes up for it. For motorcycle engine freaks some of the stuff is not totally applicable, but that is not just Vizard. Much that he and many others write about refers to porting car engines which start off with diabolical ports. So much of it is about turning a pig's ear into a silk purse, whereas motorcycle engines generally start off with far better ports which would be ruined by applying some of the same techniques.

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## tonyfoale

> Hi Tony,
> As a lover of those ancient milling machines, I think you've made a very good job, in my workshop is hi big sister



Show us some photos then.





> I wish you a nice end of year, for us it's "Joyeux Noël et bonne année".
> Pierre



Feliz navidad y año nuevo to everybody.

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## DIYer

Thanks tonyfoale! We've added your Horizontal Milling Machine to our Milling category,
as well as to your builder page: tonyfoale's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:















Horizontal Milling Machine
 by tonyfoale

tags:
mill

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## DIYer

Thanks tonyfoale! We've added your Surface Grinder to our Grinding category,
as well as to your builder page: tonyfoale's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:















Surface Grinder
 by tonyfoale

tags:
grinder

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## pennswoodsed

I just followed the email headline , horizontal mill . Began reading story , and development of tools and moves. The word dyno in the old picture caught my eye, and I thought this must be a motorcycle guy !?. Then the Australia ,England to Spain moves sounded awfully familiar , Welcome Tony ! From your biggest fan in this region ! . There are just tons of interesting builds of every type of machinery !
With Admiration ,Ed Flanagan(Pennswoodsed)

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tonyfoale (Jan 7, 2017)

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## tonyfoale

> I just followed the email headline , horizontal mill . Began reading story , and development of tools and moves. The word dyno in the old picture caught my eye, and I thought this must be a motorcycle guy !?. Then the Australia ,England to Spain moves sounded awfully familiar , Welcome Tony ! From your biggest fan in this region ! . There are just tons of interesting builds of every type of machinery !
> With Admiration ,Ed Flanagan(Pennswoodsed)



Ed,

Many thanks for the kind words. I have to plead guilty, I have been known to ride a motorcycle or two from time to time as you mention. You have just given me an idea for another posting. I have made two engine dynos in the past (1960s and 1970s) by modifying car torque converters. Maybe I should write those up? Unfortunately I don't have much in the way of photos, before the advent of the digital camera I was thrifty with film.
When I joined this forum (the only one that I am active on) I made a list of future topics to work through and I thought that it was fairly complete, but the dynos were not on it. Maybe I'll make it my next contribution.
You are right there are tons of interesting builds here. I hope that you find my other posts as interesting as this one, but I should point out that building tools is not my passion, they are just a means toward building motorcycles, which is my passion. Hence, my tools tend to be functional without the mechanical and artistic beauty and finish of many other contributors on this forum. 

PS. I thought that I recognised your name so I searched my past emails, to see that we corresponded 6 years ago about you attending one of my Motorcycle Dynamics Seminars. Well I hope to do at least one this year on the east coast, probably in the Manchester NH area. I usually come over several times a year to race at Loudon. It would be prior to a racing weekend, possibly on a Wed. and Thurs. I do that just in case of injury whilst racing.

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## that_other_guy

> Thanks guys. As a newbie on this forum I was not sure what sort of posts were of interest to the rest of you. ..........For example I made a flow bench which is largely mechanical like other devices but some of these tools need electronics, either home-made or using devices like Arduinos, to enable them to work. Are forum members also interested in those details?



I am very interested!
Thanks for sharing.
Brian

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## tonyfoale

> I am very interested!
> Thanks for sharing.
> Brian



Brian,

I assume that you are talking about the flow bench? I keep trying to find the time for that, actually I must have at least 100 projects that I would like to document, I create them quicker than I can write about them.

   Click for full size images.

For the time being here are some pix of the bench and some of my swirl meter.

  

Here are some shots of the software.

There is a shock dyno build that I did on this forum if you are interested and you may find web site of interest, the link to that is in my signature below.

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DIYer (Jan 4, 2019),

that_other_guy (Jan 6, 2019)

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## crazypj

> I am not familiar with Moss's stuff but I like Vizard's..



 Been a while since I could get online, been looking after grandson last 2 yrs. I thought 2 yr olds were close to 'perpetual motion' but 3 is even closer.
Leon Moss was founder of LEDAR, died in a hang gliding accident if I remember right. He did work for HONDA for 'Superbike' racing in early 80's. Probably the best carb guy in the world at the time. Don't know if you've looked into it at all but could one of the cheap weather anemometers be used to measure airflow in flow bench? It would work along the lines of Vizard's 'floating point' bench with a ~5hp vacuum cleaner/shop vac

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## tonyfoale

> Been a while since I could get online, been looking after grandson last 2 yrs. I thought 2 yr olds were close to 'perpetual motion' but 3 is even closer.
> Leon Moss was founder of LEDAR, died in a hang gliding accident if I remember right.



I had to scroll back to see why you were talking about Leon. I knew of Leon, in our previous discussion I was just indicating that I was not familiar with his work although I knew of him.




> Don't know if you've looked into it at all but could one of the cheap weather anemometers be used to measure airflow in flow bench? It would work along the lines of Vizard's 'floating point' bench with a ~5hp vacuum cleaner/shop vac



I looked into many ways to measure air flow for the bench. Most benches use an orifice plate but the flow coefficients are low, 50 to 60%. I used a venturi in place of an orifice plate, coeff around 96 to 98%, so I only need a vacumn source of roughly 1/2 that I would with the orifice. Combined with electronic differential pressure transducers it is very accurate and highly repeatable. Most/all orifice machines have to change out plates at different flow rates, even when doing a single test over a range of valve openings on the same port. With my venturi I have to change out nothing. Testing is very quick. My software averages 100 readings over a set period (usually 5 secs). All I have to do is set the valve lift, push a button, wait 5 secs and repeat for as many steps as I want. My software does the rest.

I don't see any price or functional reason to use a weather anemometer over what I have.

 Click for full size images.
Ventururi with temp sensor attached. See my old post on ruggedized temp sensors.

  
Some pix of the black box and DP sensors. There are humidity, baro and temp on the board as well as a temp sensor on the venturi and port. These parameters allow the results to be compensated for different atmospheric conditions. I obtain indistinguishable results from testing at 0 deg when I lived in NH, USA and testing at 30 deg here in Spain. My workshop is always 30 deg in summer.

I use a floating plenum pressure as Vizard has as well. However, I realised when I made my first bench a long time back that even without electronic sensors you could make accurate manometers from clear plastic tube and coloured water to actually measure flow. That is unlike Vizard's first efforts where he only got a "better or worse" indication. I had real flow numbers from the outset.

As you suggest I do use a motor from the biggest shop vac that I could find on a trip to the US. I extracted the motor which was light enough for a suitcase and left the rest behind.

Anyway I'll leave more on the flow bench subject until I make a full post about that. Maybe this discussion will bring it to the top of my list to document. I was intending on doing something on an LVT that I made for my shock dyno or some modifications to put my bead blaster on steroids.

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## crazypj

Hi Tony, 
Happy New Year.
That's a really neat solution, I won't hold my breath but will be waiting for a full write up (LOL)
I've seen cheap anemometers on sale around $40.00, obviously not best quality but if repeatable results would be OK for a yes or no on flow improvements. (pretty sure they just use something like a 2 wire computer fan and measure generated voltage?)
I used flow bench a few times when I taught at MMI (Motorcycle Mechanics Institute, Orlando) Superflow 110. Not sure how accurate it was but it did show improvements (or otherwise ;( )
Reading Vizard's work/books over the years I suspect he isn't burning any bridges but doesn't think 10" pressure drop extrapolation is best way to go?
Got some good results for a semi-pro MX'er on his YZF250, he jumped about 30 spots in national ranking 
3yr old is sleeping at present, I get a lot of time to think trash but not much time to actually do anything (plus watch too much You Tube)

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## tonyfoale

> Hi Tony, 
> I've seen cheap anemometers on sale around $40.00, obviously not best quality but if repeatable results would be OK for a yes or no on flow improvements.



Why settle for a "yes/no" when it is no more expensive or more work to get some actual repeatable numbers. A bench that I built a long time ago for almost nothing, which used my smallish shop vac missing the filter, and for which I still have tested items gave results better than 1% when compared with my current machine. The only thing wrong with using simple manometers is that testing takes longer and results have to be either entered manually into software or you have to do it all manually.

 click to enlarge.

This was much later than my first bench but it is about as simple as it can be, but that does not detract from its accuracy. Note that even though this was all manual I still had a weather station there to calculate correction factors. Sometimes for budget reasons you have to make or use "yes/no" equipment but there really is no need for that with a basic flow bench. Having said that, there is a difference between getting accurate data from any testing programme and how closely that data represents reality. This is never more true than with flow testing. You take static flow measurements whereas reality is rapidly irregularly pulsing flow with liquid being injected into the stream.

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## crazypj

Hope this 'conversation' isn't messing up thread? 
I've read a lot about flow benches over the last 50+ yrs (Mostly by D. Vizard ,LOL) I always wondered about valve haed shape, at very fast lift couldn't it create something of a vacuum behind it or would pulse pressure in port tend to pressurise entire port at a resonant frequency? (when it comes 'on the pipe' )not expecting reply right now, I think your about 6 hrs ahead so it's about 1:40am in Spain? My brother in Britain used to call around 7~8:00 am British time, 2~3am in Florida. I never could get him to understand the time difference

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## tonyfoale

> Hope this 'conversation' isn't messing up thread? 
> I've read a lot about flow benches over the last 50+ yrs (Mostly by D. Vizard ,LOL) I always wondered about valve haed shape, at very fast lift couldn't it create something of a vacuum behind it



The velocity of valve heads is actually quite low as is the displacement. There will be some reduced pressure but it will be minor.
Valve head shape is very important for flow though.

You might find this of interest Some flow tests

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## DIYer

Thanks tonyfoale! We've added your Manometer to our Measuring and Marking category,
as well as to your builder page: tonyfoale's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:















Manometer
 by tonyfoale

tags:
measurement

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