# Homemade Tools >  Coronavirus and homemade tools

## Jon

I've been receiving many generic and useless Coronavirus emails, so I wanted to start a thread here with *relevant* Coronavirus discussion as it pertains to us: homemade tool builders.

Coronavirus is spreading rapidly worldwide, and it's going to get worse before it gets better. In the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic, there were multiple waves, and the second wave was deadliest. So, it may also get worse _after_ it gets better.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg


Some topics relevant to homemade tool building:

1. *People are staying at home more.* Is anyone here on voluntary quarantine, mandatory quarantine, partial lockdown, full lockdown, or watching your government gradually roll out a lockdown so that it's more socially acceptable? Working from home? Kids' or grandkids' schools closed? Or perhaps you see that Coronavirus deaths skew heavily toward your age group, so you don't want to venture out. Even if you recover (the vast majority of people do), you'll still have to deal with a terrible respiratory infection, and possibly long-term effects. Hospitalization rates (estimates now are around 15%) are high enough that, were Coronavirus to reach your house, the risk of one or more members of your household needing hospitalization is troubling. Home-based hobbies are extremely important for maintaining sanity now, and you may have more time to work on yours.

2. *Supply chains are being disrupted.* This means that most of us will likely have reduced access to tool building supplies and materials, or will pay higher prices for our goods. Anyone get rejected trying to buy food, toilet paper, masks, or ammunition? I found a decent subreddit dedicated to supply chains here, and you can monitor it for gossip about how the global supply chain will be affected. This is (one of) the reasons that it makes sense to value ingenuity and low-buck construction in a hobby, because one day you may really need those skills.



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3. *People are starting to build breathing machines.* The rumors about Italy triaging breathing machines to save younger people can't be ignored. Coronavirus deaths increase significantly without access to breathing machines.

From WHO report on Covid treatment strategy:




> While most people with COVID-19 develop only mild or uncomplicated illness, approximately 14% develop severe disease that requires hospitalization and oxygen support, and 5% require admission to an intensive care unit (1).



Specifically, this means CPAPs (they help you breathe in), oxygen concentrators (they concentrate oxygen from ambient air), and especially ventilators (they breathe in _and_ out for you). Countries are banning export of these machines, because each nation wants to hold on to its own stock. Here's an example of a DIY respirator project that you can contribute to now: https://panvent.blogspot.com/ . More: https://www.instructables.com/id/The...ic-Ventilator/ . You do need some medical training to operate these machines (especially a ventilator), but not so much that it's out of reach for a reasonably smart person, especially if your local ICU is at capacity. In addition to breathing machines, we're seeing homemade masks and other PPE, and even stuff like homemade button-pushing tools so you don't have to touch a public button. As tool builders, this is our time to shine.

36-second video of pandemic ventilator prototype:



Some resources:

New England Journal of Medicine Coronavirus section - very credible source, and they'll be extremely useful in the days to come. Not great for fresh information. Most of the useful studies out there are still preprints that you will have to analyze yourself, prior to any peer review.

Multi-reddit feed of Coronavirus communities - mixed bag of extremely useful ultra-fresh Coronavirus news, and social media garbage. Sort by new for the latest info. For local gossip, search for a Coronavirus subreddit specific to your area. For example, here's mine: https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusColorado/ . For desktop, I prefer the old reddit formatting, so I substitute "old" for "www" in the url. Looks like this: https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusColorado/

Coronavirus Johns Hopkins Map - one of the better interactive maps covering current Coronavirus cases. Keep in mind that the official confirmed infection numbers are MUCH smaller than the actual number of people infected. By the time someone becomes an "official" Coronavirus patient, they've been infected and contagious for a while.

Dr. Nicholas Christakis on Twitter - Christakis is well-respected, well-educated, and blunt. He's been doing a great job on his Twitter lately. Lots of epidemiological data that laypeople can understand.

Has Coronavirus impacted your tool building hobby? Are you expecting it to? What are you doing to prepare? Are you still toying with the "it's just the flu" mindset? Or are you stockpiling your underground bunker with CBRN suits and barrels of loose ammo? Somewhere in between?

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## Karl_H

I am not signed in on my iPad so I get the ads.
When I first saw this post, the ad right after the "resources" was for Victoria's Secret - talk about a positive side to quarantines!

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Andyt (Mar 17, 2020),

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## hemmjo

These are troubling times for sure. It will certainly be interesting to see how things unfold. My grandmother, my fathers mom, died in 1919 of that influenza outbreak. 

One other bit of trivia, this years High School seniors were born in 2001, in time for the 911 tragedy.

Life is difficult, some have come to expect it to be easy and complain with things are too difficult (here in the USA anyway). I am guessing there are some other countries with the same situation. I feel a lot of people are going to get a real attitude adjustment.

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Toolmaker51 (May 15, 2020)

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## Frank S

We normally go once a month to buy Toilet paper, paper towels and paper plates if needed once every 3 to 5 months to restock our pantry shelves. We are opportunistic buyers when it comes to frozen foods or meats if it is on a major reduced price sale and should we determine there is sufficient extra space in our freezer we will buy a few items KEY word here is few since our freezer is very nearly always near capacity. We plant every spring and harvest through out the summer canning up as much excess as possible, or trading it with some neighbors for things they have grown but we hadn't. This only leaves the things that don't last long periods of time such as bread and milk. Yes I can bake bread if need be but refuse to feed a cow just for the half gallon of milk we might consume in a weeks time. 
Essentially we are self quarantined most of the time. save for the infrequent trip to town usually at least once a week but not always.
Since I am 65 and the wife is 74 we fall into that supposed vulnerable age group. In living memory or the 30 years we have been together we both have had the flu once that we remember, also we both have had only 1 flu shot in our lifetimes coincidentally that was the same year we had the flu a few weeks after getting the shot.
She has allergy congestion once in a while but I almost never catch a cold unless possibly after cleaning out an attic or under a house where there is dinosaur dust and ancient rodent feces and my mask wasn't properly sealed. I also almost never wear gloves and probably rub sweat off my face and out of my eyes several times while cleaning this stuff. In these cases I might come down with something for a couple of days. If or when I do contract something I pig out on my homemade hot sauce using chips as a medium to consume it with, consume massive quantities of things very high in vitamin C and eat a lot of honey other than that I ignore any symptoms until they go away. 
The way I figure it if I were to contact the COVID-19 I might not even recognize what I have. I don't run to the DR or the ER unless something is obviously broken, leaking more blood than I can stop, or something has punctured me and I'm not sure if I have managed to remove all of it. SO I would probably be near death before I would drive myself to the hospital.

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## Big Sexy

Society and I dont play well together, so I try to stay quarantined every day regardless of a pandemic or not. This all started after a TBI.

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## IAMSatisfied

TRIGGER WARNING: SNOWFLAKES MAY HAVE A MELTDOWN FROM WATCHING THIS AND NOT EVEN BE ABLE TO WATCH IT ALL THE WAY THROUGH.

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bobs409 (Mar 17, 2020),

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## Big Sexy

I stopped watching at its just the flu. Obviously he does not understand much about A&P and definitely nothing about infectious disease. Nobody is saying its deadlier than a flu It just attacks more people and quicker. And all of this is before it mutates. As John said about the Spanish flu of the early 20th century  It was worse the second time around I believe the 2nd time around was because it mutated. And if you had the original strain, the antibodies your body made will not do any good against the mutated strain. Also this is a case of SARS (sudden acute respiratory syndrome). So basically this guy has no idea what he is talking about. He just needs something for his YouTube channel. He probably thinks the liberals started this virus as a way to sabotage the upcoming election and not because some random chinaman had sex with his chickens. Haha

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## Jon

This is a good comprehensive article on why it's so alarming: https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coron...e-f4d3d9cd99ca

It's difficult - even for technical people like us - to understand the implications of exponential growth. And by the time people get it, it's too late.

I have been using the 100X technique he's describing. If your state announces 50 "official" cases of coronavirus, then you may as well multiply that number by 100 to at least make a better rough guess at true positives. It may not be perfect, but your number will be closer to reality.

Western nations as a whole are far less collectivist and authoritarian than China. I don't know how we will react to ultra-strict containment measures, which are necessary to control infection. China is now having people install an app on their phones that uses mass surveillance to do Coronavirus contact tracing. The app displays green if you can move freely. Yellow and you must stay home for 7 days. Red and you're on 2-week quarantine. Once someone tests positive, they're using GPS and video surveillance to quarantine those with whom they came into contact. More from NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/01/b...veillance.html . Here's a clip of people being scanned. Your app must display green to get through the checkpoint. I'm not criticizing this app (China criticism is below, don't worry), and we may be using something like it soon in America. It's interesting how our media is _so_ aghast at the notion of this app automatically notifying police if people break quarantine.



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Also, my understanding (thus far, as an amateur) is that the hospitalization rate does not alter greatly with age (unlike the death rate). If there is a 15% hospitalization rate, and you have 4 members in your household (assuming even hospitalization rates across age groups), and you all get Covid, then you are at roughly even odds that at least one person in your household will require hospitalization.

I also hope that when this is all over, there is some sort of globally-enforced crackdown on China's questionable meat selling practices, similar to how Iran's nuclear capabilities are limited by the rest of the world. Note SARS and Avian Influenza (AKA bird flu or H5N1). Coronavirus is at least the third Chinese virus that originated in animals. And while the "coronavirus came from eating bat soup" meme is garbage, we do think it transferred to humans due to unsanitary practices of handling and selling bats in wet markets for consumption (just not from _ingesting_ bat flesh, that's the nuance). China isn't exactly some impoverished Saharan African nation. They're wealthy, and they need to address this stuff so that it doesn't happen again.

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## Jon

A couple of new updates. Regarding supply chains: apparently Amazon is de-prioritizing certain goods: NBC, Vox, NYPost. Not exactly my favorite news sources, but there it is.




> "We are seeing increased online shopping and as a result some products such as household staples and medical supplies are out of stock," the company announced on its seller platform called Seller Central. "With this in mind, we are temporarily prioritizing household staples, medical supplies and other high-demand products coming into our fulfillment centers so that we can more quickly receive, restock, and ship these products to customers."



When I think of a supply *chain*, I am reminded of the old saw: "A chain is only as strong as its weakest link." For example, in America, our farmers produce plenty of food to feed our country. Store shelves are emptying now for logistical reasons, not because we ran out of grain.

This is a good time to stock up on longer-term consumables. Are we facing a post-apocalyptic world in which you must trade your first-born child for a sanding belt? Probably not. Their price may rise though. You can look through your Amazon order history, and also review every shelf and drawer in your shop, and order what you may need. Fasteners, filters, sandpaper, tape, glue - stuff like that. Worst case scenario: you stocked up your shop with reasonably-priced items that you will use anyway.

Ammunition purchasers may benefit from an ammo tracking site like Gunbot.net, WikiArms.com, or AmmoSeek.com. I found these when I built my AR, and they've been useful ever since.

On the homemade tool front, let's look again at DIY ventilators. The phrase "ventilator shortage" is now on the NYT homepage, above the fold. Governments are begrudgingly admitting that they may not have enough to go around. Note the #FlattenTheCurve movement. We're trying to stretch out the pandemic over the longest period of time as possible, so that it doesn't exceed our medical capacity at any one point.



Here's a new project for an Arduino-based DIY ventilator: https://github.com/jcl5m1/ventilator . Not exactly a finished product, and I know that pulmonologists are aghast at this stuff, but this one is at least a few iterations beyond the previous one I posted here.





Finally, I liked this quarantine GIF. Click to play.



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## DanCom

As long as you are super careful to clean every last bit of the respirator (like a CPAP) it should be good. I have a friend who found out the hard way when using a half-mask respirator. He got a bad bacterial pneumonia from a dirty unit. Warm humid breath condensate is a breeding ground for all kinds of nasties. 

A freshly washed pieced of a cotton sheet and a couple of elastic bands may be just as effective, but way less cool.  :Wink: 

Dan

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## jdurand

Today we got our lockdown orders from on high. 7 counties, all non-essential businesses are closed, stay home.

As we "ship goods directly to customers" we're exempt and the Postal Orifice is remaining open, so we're good there. Sporting Goods, the Tesla plant, and other such places are closed. Local supermarket is closing 2 hours early every day.

I finished and submitted 72 electrical drawings for the new house electrical permit along with 23 documents telling the electricians what REALLY needs to be done.

So, maybe we can get back to getting rid of stuff so we can move...assuming we're allowed to travel in July.

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## tonyfoale

Many of us have oxygen bottles in the workshop.

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Jon (Mar 18, 2020),

Saltfever (Mar 18, 2020)

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## Jon

> Many of us have oxygen bottles in the workshop.



Good call tonyfoale. Surely these common bottles could be used as a component in oxygen delivery machines. If we are to use bottled oxygen as the primary source of oxygen for oxygen therapy, then we will need to overcome the volume issue.

Note this photo from an early outbreak in a Washington nursing home. These workers are moving in oxygen concentrators (double-fisted!). These generally go from 1 liter per minute to 5, and for Covid oxygen therapy, they're cranking them all the way up to 5.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg



More on the homemade ventilator front. NYT on impending ventilator shortage. And, here's another DIY ventilator design. Also, here's a video on using one ventilator to serve multiple patients. I have no idea if this will work, but it made me think: maybe instead of more ventilators, there's a way to have one ventilator used by multiple patients. 6:04 video:




For any homemade mask critics: of course a homemade mask is better than nothing! We've previously discussed a homemade mask design published on the CDC website. Similarly, here's a WHO article on homemade hand sanitizer fabrication. We've heard the "homemade-is-bad" argument for a long time around here, and it doesn't have much impact on this community. I'm also wondering if it's feasible to create a homemade melt-blown manufacturing machine, so that people can create N95 masks.

Regarding Amazon supply, here are details on exactly which shipments are being prioritized.




> Amazon said in an email to sellers that it was now prioritizing shipment in the following six categories: baby product; health and household (including personal-care appliances); beauty and personal care; grocery; industrial and scientific; pet supplies.




I liked this homemade Coronavirus tool. It's a no-touch fingerprint authentication device. Click to play.



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In the US, the government is considering making payments to Americans of thousands of dollars. Or instead of thousands of dollars, you could choose to receive 1 bottle of hand sanitizer!  :Rimshot: 


Finally, here's a great trick for if you run out of toilet paper  :Cool:

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## Crusty

There was a bank break in and robbery over the weekend but all they took was all the TP and Purell.

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## Unkle Fuzzy

This about says it all...

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## Saltfever

> Many of us have oxygen bottles in the workshop.



When dealing with pure O2 lets not forget about materials compatibility. Remember Apollo 13, if materials are not O2 compatible you have an incredible fire hazard. Also, there is supposedly a controversy about using industrial O2 for breathing. However, since both are made from the LOX process it may not be a issue anymore. I have no current data and only mentioned here for your own investigation.

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## hemmjo

Oxygen is Oxygen. The difference between using welding and medical oxygen is the purity of the gas, and cleanliness of the container and delivery system. If it comes down to a choice between suffocating and breathing in a little contaminated oxygen, bring in the welding tank!!!!! 

It's not like that air we breath everyday is so pure anyway, else we would not be in this situation!!!

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tonyfoale (Mar 19, 2020)

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## Crusty

Many sport pilots have used welding oxygen to refill their oxygen tanks for altitude flight with good results.

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Big Sexy (Mar 19, 2020),

tonyfoale (Mar 19, 2020)

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## tonyfoale

> Oxygen is Oxygen. The difference between using welding and medical oxygen is the purity of the gas, and cleanliness of the container and delivery system. If it comes down to a choice between suffocating and breathing in a little contaminated oxygen, bring in the welding tank!!!!!



I was going to reply almost exactly the same. If I needed oxygen I hope that I would be in hospital being looked after properly. I only mentioned the welding oxygen as an emergency measure. Here in Spain we are confined to our houses except for certain exceptions like food or medicinal shopping. If I fall sick I would happily use the oxygen that I have knowing full well that it would be of a lower purity than medicinal oxygen, but it would be infinitely preferable to dying. In fact I have brought my oxy bottle up from the downstairs workshop into the house just in case. It seems that this virus can take hold of people very quickly and I doubt that I could get it upstairs if I needed it. i live away from other people and am now mainly confined to home so I am not expecting to catch anything but there is no harm in taking a simple extra precaution.

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## mklotz

Recently I read a forum post (URL below) that raised an important concern for the type of folks who use this forum.

Social distancing and self-isolation have given most of us the time to do shop work, honey-dos, and home repairs and improvements. Exercise more than usual caution while doing these things because emergency medical care can be over-stressed by the virus and emergency response may be slow, impaired, or even not forthcoming. Read Joel's post and be extra careful out there.

https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/fo...on#post1862504

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## Jon

mklotz (and Joel on HSM) are right. This is an especially good time to leave the chainsaw alone. Similarly, I had to clean our woodstove chimney last week, and instead of risking going up on the roof, I disassembled the stovepipe in the living room, taped a garbage bag to the pipe, and cleaned it just fine from below (I used a hand drill extension rod brush through the bag).

The triaging of medical resources in Italy is no longer a rumor. If you are elderly (~65+, regardless of your own definition), and/or have medical issues, your care may be de-prioritized at a hospital. Covid hospitalization rates are estimated to be around 15% now, and that figure spans roughly across age groups. Fresh CDC data on US hospitalization rates is here. Specialized care is a rarity now; for example, you may have to be intubated by a dermatologist. Covid is very infectious; that's why countries are building separate dedicated hospitals to treat patients. Funerals are being increasingly forbidden. Mostly to prevent gatherings, but also because we believe that corpses _may_ shed the virus.

Social distancing is not being observed as well as we would like. Expect a clampdown on this, and punishments for those who break rules. You do not want to be put in a jail now, not even for an hour, not even if you're correct.

Some supply chain updates. The Big 3 automakers are suspending production. Bloomberg is reporting that some of them may switch to ventilator production. Comparisons to WWII are numerous, both in regard to increased production, and estimated death counts. Amazon Prime Pantry has been suspended.

Try to source essentials without going to the grocery store and risking exposure. Here's a new site that will help you search Amazon for bulk items, and then sort by unit price. Many orders are not arriving. Consider splitting your bulk orders between multiple sellers.

Everyone is angry at China's recent social media spin. I'm OK with them posting their treacly feel-good videos about how everything is great now in China, but they crossed the line recently when a spokesman for their Ministry of Foreign affairs tweeted that "It might be US army who brought the epidemic to Wuhan". China's unsanitary wet market practices and their penchant for consuming exotic animals has caused previous epidemic issues, and an epidemic caused by bat-eating practices was predicted in this paper. Relevant text below:



NYT did a good job (for once) analyzing China's social media campaign here. Tensions are rising between China and the world, and we can expect this to cause supply long-term chain issues.

On the homemade tool front, here's a clever dog-walking trick. Except for extremely rare cases (I've only seen 2 reported thus far), dogs can't get Covid, although they can carry coronavirus on their fur if people pet them.



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And a nice urban vs. rural quarantine meme.



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## jdurand

Just wondering, what is it that's supposed to be in industrial O2 that's all that bad for you? If the tank is 99% O2, then you've got 1% max of someone wrong gas that doesn't oxidize in the presence of high pressure O2. It would have to be worse than smog to be even a concern.

One thing I noticed today, with the "stay home" order here the air is almost so clear I can't see it.

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## Big Sexy

Lmao you must be from NY or California

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## DIYSwede

Sobering reading from the following article (app 20-30 mins of reading):

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coron...e-be9337092b56

-Take care all you HMT:s, wherever you are!
 
Johan

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## jdurand

> Lmao you must be from NY or California



California at the moment hoping we can get this place sold and move to our new home where the air is CLEAR and the water is clean. All my sinus problems clear up as soon as we get there only to return when we're in California.

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## Jon

I had planned to post some resources about homemade masks today, but the DIY ventilator front is advancing too quickly to ignore.

A quick point about supply chains first. I saw an interesting point about, ahem, The Great Toilet Paper Shortage of 2020, as it applies to a supply chain phenomenon called the Bullwhip Effect. This is also demonstrated in something called the Beer Distribution Game, which was invented by Jay Forrester at the MIT Sloan School of Management. This helps explain why toilet paper is rare now, even though Coronavirus isn't really increasing the need for toilet paper. Related issues are starting to appear, such as this sewer problem in Redding, CA caused by people flushing shredded t-shirts. DIY bidets are also relevant to homemade tool builders, and we can get into that later.

Back to vents. One of the problems with Covid isn't just the number of people requiring ventilation. It's the long length of time that those people need to be ventilated so that they recover - or die. Eventually.

We progressed rather rapidly from a narrative of "building your own ventilators is crazy, and should be left to medical professionals" to "let's all work together on feel-good open-source DIY ventilator production". Looks like Elon Musk is even volunteering to help humanity. We're saved  :Headshake: 



Two fronts here: creating more ventilators, and techniques to use single ventilators on multiple patients.

Splitting ventilators: https://emcrit.org/pulmcrit/split-ventilators/

Open source or inexpensive ventilator projects:

https://gitlab.com/TrevorSmale/OSV-OpenLung
https://opensourceventilator.ie/
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...4.2009.06207.x

There's also the Umbilizer, a low-cost ventilator project associated with Harvard and MIT students. More:

https://www.alumni.hbs.edu/video.aspx?v=1_1z7uopu4
Low-cost ventilator wins Sloan health care prize | MIT News
Umbilizer patent is here

Finally some fresh memes. I'm loving the WWII and mid-century imagery.

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## DIYSwede

Being confined to my home, and the following is happening around us
(1/3 of the cases below in the Greater Stockholm area, where we live):



Whilst having my morning coffee I wondered: "What's already around the apartment that could be of use for disinfection?"

*Now, this is just me "winging it" - not particularly scientific, but 100% DIY. 
"Everyman their own Mad Scientist!" Use this "info" at your own discretion, and YMMV!*

Found items:
MEK-Denaturated alcohol (window cleaner): litre and a half, Sodium Hypochlorite (Household Bleach): same amount, 
Liquid Soap, Citric acid and D-Limonene, "Orange Oil" (cleaner, de-calcifier & aroma...)
So: To one litre of booze, add 4 tsp of citric acid crystals, some liquid soap and half a dozen drops of "Orange Oil",
these will add wetting capacity to the booze and also take some of the MEK smell/ taste away. Put in spray bottle.

Dilute the bleach 1 part to 30 parts water, add some soap and drops of orange oil - 
put in spray bottle for bathroom use & shiny, hard surfaces. Smells Clean & Safe...

Next: *-Why not make the entrance hallway a DIY "virological lock"?*
I salvaged an (UV light) Ozone generator from the electronics bin at work a few years back, 
pimped it with a small computer fan for better output,
and added another 12 VDC computer fan to the hallway floor for circulation (as ozone is heavier than air).
All running thru a discarded coffee-machine timer, 1 hour after each entry will suffice.

"*-IT WERKS!*" This is the running "Insta-Kil" generator on top of the hallway cupboard:



The pedestal-mounted tray for hats, gloves, keys etc below the unit:



Kludged shower curtain rod with PE sheet in doorway to apartment: Efficient and sexy-looking too...
Coathanger to the right, airspace between each hanging item:



When entering: take off clothes, shoes, hats & gloves and put where intended.
Go thru lock, start "the Apparatus", then into bathroom for cleaning/ disinfection of hands...

*EDIT*: *Everything* entering gets an hour of treatment,
including groceries, mail, the morning paper etc. 
This might seem excessive, but as the rate of cases in our area rises, and the longevity of virus on surfaces,
this is a pretty easily executed, simple and hopefully effective precaution. 
Check out: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20080213125A1/en/End EDIT/

Well - time will perhaps tell if this was successful or not - but at least I wasted a few hours of confinement!

All the best from Johan

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## Howder1951

entry area is actually a good concept, if push does come to shove, what will be needed is fast easy economical and effective viral stops. And it always pays to be prepared in advance, like when we ran out of TP!

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## Crusty

Here's sound advice from Joe Pieczynski of protection to take that you've probably overlooked.

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## Jon

Good one. I've used that "fresh paint" analogy too. Retraining yourself to not touch surfaces (or your face!) is very difficult.

Regarding surfaces, this video from Dr. John Campbell (not a medical doctor, but I believe his doctorate is in nursing), did a good job of breaking down our understanding of coronavirus survival on surfaces for medical laypeople. Here's the NEJM study he's discussing. 15:44 video:




More points:

-Packages are often made up of cardboard (low virus survivability) and packaging tape. I believe we don't have data on virus survivability on packaging tape, but it's reasonable to assume that it's closer to plastic (high virus survivability) than to cardboard. I'm not sure where non-cardboard larger packaging envelopes fit into this.

-Of course we know viruses aren't exactly sprinkled out of a virus salt shaker onto a surface. Their survivability is aided by the fact that they are deposited within protective droplets of mucous and/or saliva, that help them stay moist and viable for a while.

-It looks like copper has low virus survivability. We may see copper prices rise and copper supply drop. People building sanitary homemade tools (like button-pressers) should consider copper.

-The primary means of transmission is still via expelled droplets from sick people that contact mucous membranes of healthy people. However, the data on surface transmission is troubling.

-Despite fictional movies that present a false dichotomy of viruses being either/or "airborne" or not, it's actually a spectrum, and coronavirus does indeed have some aerosolized survivability. In smaller droplets, coronavirus can be suspended in the air for around half an hour. This may explain why healthcare workers are contracting the virus at such a high rate.

A few memes and then I think we'll hit the homemade mask front after the weekend.

2020 "social distancing" Olympics symbol:



Lego Coronavirus kit; nice Photoshop work:



But this one is my favorite of the day:

----------


## Jon

China's covid death numbers are looking increasingly untrustworthy. Italy's reported death toll is almost double China's reported death toll, and Italy has 5% of China's population. This disparity is too large to be explained by Italy's older population, cultural kiss-on-the-cheek rituals, population density, or anything else. Spain is in trouble too; hospitals and morgues are at or over capacity. France is close behind.

WHO (World Health Organization) criticism is mainstreaming, in particular: their initial downplaying and later backpedaling of human-to-human covid transmission, their unusual praise of China's response to the virus, and their acceptance of a $20 million donation from China. If China wants to make donations, they should donate needed healthcare supplies, not feed money to an organization whose global health messaging now conveniently favors them.

The New England Journal of Medicine today set out guidelines for triaging of medical resources. If you are over 60, and/or have preexisting conditions, your care will be de-prioritized, and your cohort's death rate will rise.

The US stock market has lost 1/3 of its value. Talk of a worldwide depression is reasonable. National Guard deployments are increasing, certainly to secure food distribution, and probably to enforce lockdown measures. Amazon Prime shipment times are 1 month for some items; many "in stock" item orders are being cancelled. Household decontamination rooms are increasing. Ammunition, especially in popular calibers, is widely unavailable.

Let's look at homemade masks. "Masks are useless for most people" is now a widely-acknowledged falsehood.



-Any barriers over your nose and mouth are significantly effective, some more than others. Evidence: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.

-Infected people are asymptomatic and contagious for a median of 5 days. If everyone wore a mask in public, then these infected asymptomatic people would not be so easily transmitting the virus.

-Face masks prevent face-touching.

-Government messaging on this issue is an attempt to optimize the supply of masks for healthcare workers.

Some DIY mask resources:

https://hackaday.com/2020/03/18/home...e-of-shortage/
https://covidmaskmakers.com/
https://longliveyoursmile.com/3d-pri...-for-covid-19/
https://copper3d.com/hackthepandemic/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3373043/
https://cv-masks.github.io/satin_fac...cup_effect.pdf
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...ong-scientists
https://www.asiaone.com/lifestyle/ta...eres-how-do-it
https://twitter.com/maddenw/status/1240989649461342208


Finally, some memes. An old photo repurposed nicely into a coronavirus meme:




Clever commentary on ammunition and sanitizer shortage:




Finally, I guess "Chinese" is a race now, at least for purposes of blame-shifting and race-baiting.  :Head Scratch:

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baja (Mar 24, 2020),

dubbby (Mar 24, 2020),

GedB (Mar 24, 2020),

high-side (Mar 24, 2020),

HobieDave (Mar 24, 2020),

rlm98253 (Mar 23, 2020),

Seedtick (Mar 23, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (May 15, 2020)

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## old kodger

Up until now, I fell firmly into the "coronavirus is a beat up" camp, however this came across my desk this morning. If it's true, in which case the authorities would likely know about it and WE definitely would not. it does throw a new light on the "panic lock down" syndrome currently being employed.
https://ufospotlight.wordpress.com/2...avirus-crisis/

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## Jon

> Up until now, I fell firmly into the "coronavirus is a beat up" camp, however this came across my desk this morning. If it's true, in which case the authorities would likely know about it and WE definitely would not. it does throw a new light on the "panic lock down" syndrome currently being employed.
> https://ufospotlight.wordpress.com/2...avirus-crisis/



I've seen this going around. First person accounts like this will draw a lot of questions, and will come up against the standard response: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

However, within most conspiracy theories are grains of truth. The arrest of Harvard nanoscience chemistry professor Charles Lieber is definitely real, as are his ties to Wuhan. So is the existence of a biosafety level 4 lab in Wuhan. I believe we can reasonably identify coronavirus as NOT having been bioengineered. It most likely evolved naturally. But yes, it's possible that it leaked from a lab that was storing it for study. In fact, this happened with SARS in 2003. A doctoral student was studying a frozen West Nile virus sample and it became cross-contaminated with SARS, and the student was infected. Lancet study documenting the incident: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...815-6/fulltext.

Here's a hospital video from Madrid, Spain. This is why you don't want to go to the hospital right now. Not for coronavirus, not for a broken toe, not for anything. Click to play:



Your browser does not support the video tag.

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dubbby (Mar 24, 2020)

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## hemmjo

Well that was an interesting article. I am skeptical by nature, but also open to crazy possibilities, some things that have happened over the years just do not make sense at all. 

I would close by saying that time will tell, but, very possibly we will never know the real truth.

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Toolmaker51 (May 16, 2020)

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## old kodger

as an aside, many years ago I studied Naturopathy, during that time there was a magazine called Australian Health and Healing. An article in one edition of that mag told of a vet who always used megga doses of vit C for snake bites in animals, now we have some very venomous snakes here, her comment was she never lost an animal.
The comment has already been made several times that vit C combats covid19, .........so why aren't they using it?

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## Airstreamer

> Finally, I guess "Chinese" is a race now, at least for purposes of blame-shifting and race-baiting.



The reason it's not appropriate to call it the "Chinese Virus" is that that's not it's name. There's no good reason to use the incorrect name of a disease. 
The disease is called COVID-19 because that indicates that it's a coronavirus that was discovered in 2019. Of the examples you listed, "German" is the only one that refers to a specific group of people. That name dates back to 1814, but it's more properly called Rubella since that is the name of the virus. Times change, diseases are named differently now. All of the "Okay" examples listed pre-date the World Health Organization Best Practices for the Naming of New Human Infectious Diseases which was published in May 2015.

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Moby Duck (Mar 28, 2020),

Rikk (Mar 24, 2020),

that_other_guy (Mar 28, 2020)

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## JohnMTO

Everyone should read this book: Linus Pauling's book

(1977). Vitamin C, the Common Cold and the Flu. W.H. Freeman. ISBN 978-0-7167-0360-0

Widely available but not cheap try the library

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## Jon

> Of the examples you listed, "German" is the only one that refers to a specific group of people. That name dates back to 1814, but it's more properly called Rubella since that is the name of the virus. Times change, diseases are named differently now. All of the "Okay" examples listed pre-date the World Health Organization Best Practices for the Naming of New Human Infectious Diseases which was published in May 2015.



"Spanish" also refers to a specific group of people. But, yes, that term's accuracy in regard to the Spanish Flu epidemic is questionable too.

The WHO is free to publish best practices for naming diseases, but they don't have the authority to declare a disease's singular name. Similarly:

-The WHO waited too long to name this a "pandemic".

-The WHO repeated a pseudoscientific line from Chinese authorities that claimed that there is "no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel coronavirus".

-The WHO changed their medical suggestions about covid treatment after China's reported $20 million donation, to eliminate their warning against "traditional herbal remedies", a favorite of the Chinese. Note this WHO page archive. Click on "Is there anything I should not do?" in regard to treating covid. "Taking traditional herbal remedies" is on the list. Here's the same page today, without the warning. The warning against taking traditional herbal remedies was removed after the donation. _Some_ herbal remedies _may_ help alleviate some symptoms of some diseases, but this change, in light of the donation, was too close for comfort.



More from WSJ: The World Health Organization Draws Flak for Coronavirus Response.

Nevertheless, both of our positions are valid. Others' cries of "racism" are overboard, but yes, you're correct: our naming systems, at least officially, should rely on dry scientific nomenclature. Aggressively naming this "China Flu" is likely a response to China's attempt to blame the US military as the source of Coronavirus.

Regarding vitamin C. Yes, there is some evidence that vitamin C helps immunity, just as there is some evidence that vitamin D helps prevent respiratory infections. However, this advice is nuanced enough (for example, vitamin D may help people who are vitamin D deficient) that most people in most circumstances consuming large doses of these vitamins is not currently thought to have a significant effect. We all have a tendency to hang our hearts on magic pill cures, when the best advice is often difficult - practicing long-term good health: not smoking, not being overweight, avoiding heart disease and cancer risk factors, washing our hands, and living an overall healthy lifestyle.

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that_other_guy (Mar 28, 2020),

Toolmaker51 (May 16, 2020)

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## NeiljohnUK

> Lancet study documenting the incident: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...815-6/fulltext.



I work in a research facility, it includes a bio-lab suite, and I work in there when required, none of this comes as a surprise.
NONE of the Chinese s-too-dense could be trusted to operate reliably and safely in there unsupervised, though they did, the final sterilisation by autoclave was often omitted as they didn't see the point and expected the technical staff to clean up after them so they could foxtrot oscar back to their enclave ASAP. If you don't kill it it will escape.

They are not alone in breaking such safety protocols, one 'middle-eastern' PhD student broken import laws when returning from 'home' by bringing live snakes and scorpions back in his luggage, which he then put in 'his' lab not the insectary, and not in the correct secure containers but in simple cardboard boxes, several weeks later it was found most had escaped into environment via the heating ducts...

As for no-one over 60 being supported or even younger, that's basic incident triage, something I was trained to do many years ago, around the time I was working at Porton Down.

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## Frank S

Conspiracy theories aside if nothing else this latest strain of whatever anyone wants to call it, is going to create a whole new generation of persons infected with OCD. Which may not be a bad thing in itself. Some of these folks may learn how to pick up after themselves and how to clean their toilets, counter tops and door knobs.
My question is though since the virus has already proven to be transmitted either by touch or airborne from breathing in the air around you after someone has sneezed or coughed plus it is theorized to have a longer life in humidity's above 40% would it be too far fetched to think that it could be transmitted through air handling equipment like legionnaires disease? All of the triggers are there.

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## Jon

> My question is though since the virus has already proven to be transmitted either by touch or airborne from breathing in the air around you after someone has sneezed or coughed plus it is theorized to have a longer life in humidity's above 40% would it be too far fetched to think that it could be transmitted through air handling equipment like legionnaires disease? All of the triggers are there.



From what we know now, this is not too far-fetched at all, certainly if the air is moving over short distances. What is the best source of virus-filtering material to incorporate into homemade tools that handle air?

For example, I'm looking at this 3M air filter selection guide. Some of the filters are labelled as filtering viruses. What are those filters made from?

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## Frank S

> From what we know now, this is not too far-fetched at all, certainly if the air is moving over short distances. What is the best source of virus-filtering material to incorporate into homemade tools that handle air?
> 
> For example, I'm looking at this 3M air filter selection guide. Some of the filters are labelled as filtering viruses. What are those filters made from?



The solution could be as simple as infusing common table salt in the filter media or mildly saturating the media with vinegar, or dusting the filters with powdered chinchona bark
Ok here is a tip for anyone who may have been infected. many viruses which attack the respiratory system can be halted slowed or in many cases completely stopped if the victim recognizes themselves as coming down with something early on. 
When every preventative measure has failed to protect you from catching a virus and you start to feel a scratchy sensation in your throat a way to stop this is to gargle with a salt water and vinegar mixture. Tonic water table salt and vinegar works great but if you don't happen to have tonic water but have these ingredients you can make your own. "lemongrass, citric acid, chinchona bark, allspice, cardamom, star anise" 
Any way mix the tonic water with table salt and vinegar then use as a gargle. 
Since most viruses begin with an irritated throat and take several days to mastisize further down in the body if you can stop it before your fever becomes too severe In my opinion there is a better than average chance this virus could be stopped as well. I gargle simply salt and cheap vinegar when ever my wife used catch a cold from being around people where she used to work. I never catch a cold but then again I eat so much hot pepper sauce that I make out of a myriad of spices and chilis that could be another reason as well. I know that my wife used to suffer frequently from stomach viruses upset stomach and other gastro intestinal ailments that she ate quart sized bottles of indigestion tablets and drank Gaviscon like water until I finally talked her into eating more of my hot sauce, It has been 10 years since she has complained of heart burn or upset stomach

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## Saltfever

> . . . For example, I'm looking at *this 3M air filter selection guide.* Some of the filters are labelled as filtering viruses. What are those filters made from?



The chart is misleading. Most likely because there is no accountability on a chart. Printing a label on a product is a serious matter and can subject you to "Truth in advertising" litigation. 

This is the actual claim on the filter; "*Particles that can carry a virus"* is a big difference" from the insinuation in the chart that the filter can actually trap a virus. Most viruses are less than 200nm in size. The Filtrete 2200 is not even rated as a HEPA filter. 

 

The text you see on the left (above) is what is printed inside my marked-up red circle on the Filtrete 2200 filter package. 

Sorry about the pic orientation. Pics get flipped during uploading and I have no idea how to control it. I have no idea how a 3rd pic below was installed and a few attempts at edit could not delete it.

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Jon (Mar 25, 2020)

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## Jon

Frank S - salt gargles to slow viral infection may be questionable (although they can provide relief of symptoms), but, yes, salting masks is reasonable, and perhaps we can apply that to salting filtration media. More: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep39956




> Here, we report the development of a universal, reusable virus deactivation system by functionalization of the main fibrous filtration unit of surgical mask with sodium chloride salt. The salt coating on the fiber surface dissolves upon exposure to virus aerosols and recrystallizes during drying, destroying the pathogens.



Also, this 1:25 video:



Good call Saltfever. Regarding pics, our forum software automatically flips them into what it thinks is correct orientation, but it doesn't always get it right.

Anyway, our question remains: what fabric or bulk filter material can we use to make virus-filtering tools? Is there a rating system we should be looking at? MERV rating? Also, how do we reconcile this with the fact that viruses generally travel through the air encased in droplets that are much larger than viruses. Is filtering those droplets enough?

What are peoples' plans if a household member gets infected? Our plan is to use our master bedroom as a ward. Leave adjoining master bathroom door open, and turn on bathroom fan; this should provide negative pressure. Because of what we know - and don't know - about airborne spread, our plan is to either unplug our forced-air propane furnace, or seal off the vents in the bedroom, and to heat the room with portable electric heaters if it's cold. If I can find a good furnace filter, we might be able to keep the furnace running, which is important because it's also connected to our whole house steam humidifier (Colorado mountains are very dry).

The household viral attack rate is enough such that infection of other household members is still likely, but I'd like to stagger our illnesses (a "flatten-the-curve" strategy, but within a household), so that if one of us becomes extremely ill, the other person will at least be less ill at that time, and can care for the sick person, or drive them to the hospital if need be.

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## Crusty

The major usage for N95 masks (the surgical standard) is not to block pathogens coming in but rather to protect others from pathogens going out which might be inadvertently expelled by the wearer. The masks are intended to potentially protect others from aerosolized pathogens. Wearing one's a caring and responsible thing to do but not very effective at blocking an incoming infection.

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## Jon

> The major usage for N95 masks (the surgical standard) is not to block pathogens coming in but rather to protect others from pathogens going out which might be inadvertently expelled by the wearer. The masks are intended to potentially protect others from aerosolized pathogens. Wearing one's a caring and responsible thing to do but not very effective at blocking an incoming infection.



This is a valid point, but note that, yes, this is true for surgical masks, aka "procedure masks", but N95 masks are also worn to protect healthy people.

Unfortunately, because covid infected people can be asymptomatic and contagious for - what we now believe - to be a median of 5 days, if we encourage widespread mask-wearing, then people who are unknowingly ill but feel healthy will not be transmitting the virus.

Reusable respirators with P100 filters will filter even more than N95s, and lots of our guys will have those in their shops already. 3M actually manufactures a P100 filter that is specifically designed for viral outbreaks. PDF is here. A single pair of filters is expected to last for a full pandemic wave. Note the 6035 filter model number; I believe this is a 7093 model in the US market - good luck finding any of those now! However, any P100 filter will work, and the plastic encapsulated ones can be removed, wiped down, and then the respirator can be submerged to be sterilized.

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Seedtick (Mar 25, 2020)

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## old kodger

Maybe making the virus deviate around half an orange wasn't so silly after all.

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## Saltfever

> . . . 3M actually manufactures a P100 filter that is specifically designed for viral outbreaks. PDF is here.



Another PDF here for your viewing pleasure. Remember, "PN" is the filter efficiency in trapping particles equal to or GREATER than 0.3 microns. Anything smaller might get through depending on the entrapment scheme used by the manufacturer. 

Of the more than 5,000 known viruses only a few are larger than 0.25 micron. Covid-19 is spherical and about 125nm in diameter (Wikipedia). It seems PN95 to PN100 work fairly well. Information is offered here so those who are thinking of home-brew solutions know the difficulty of the problem. How do you effectively trap a 0.125 micron diameter particle?

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## Jon

As I understand it (as an amateur of course), we mostly just need to trap the respiratory droplets within which the virions are transmitted in coughs, sneezes, and the breath of infected people. Fortunately, these droplets are much larger, which is why even homemade fabric masks offer a significant advantage.

People who study these viruses in labs wear positive pressure personnel suits. I don't think that those even filter outside air; they provide breathing air from overhead lines. For example, here's a person studying the Ebola virus (50% fatality rate) in a lab:



And note how some of the suits puff out significantly from the positive air pressure. This is analogous to a negatively-pressured hospital room. If there's a breach in the suit, the air ejecting out of the tear protects the wearer from virions entering.

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Saltfever (Mar 25, 2020)

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## old kodger

Gee Jon, 
I thought that they were Sumo wrestling game suits

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## Jon

The DIY ventilator scene is exploding; I have so many bookmarks saved about them that I need a while just to go through them. Anyway, today let's look at homemade face shields.

Grocery stores are starting to install shields to protect cashiers. And we're seeing fewer and fewer photos of emergency medical responders without face shields. We know that covid can be transmitted via droplets into someone's eyes. But goggles fog up. And, infected droplets anywhere on your face is dangerous.

There's also a significant risk of transmission to healthcare workers who are performing coronavirus tests. There are different ways to test, but some of them involve sticking a probe deep down someone's throat or up their nose, and this is making patients involuntarily cough, thus infecting healthcare workers.

2-liter soda bottles are great for DIY face shields. Here's one by Alex-Kirkpatrick. 0:58 video:




And the files for this face shield are here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...mtBBzjfXswrGvU

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Andyt (Mar 27, 2020),

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dubbby (Apr 2, 2020),

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Seedtick (Mar 26, 2020),

Slim-123 (Mar 29, 2020),

Tonyg (Mar 27, 2020)

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## piloon

Yep. cool idea, well done!

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greyhoundollie (Mar 28, 2020)

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## Frank S

This is a cool idea to make these disposable face shields not for grinding purposes but when working around chemicals which can splash or sprays like garden chemicals these could be sized up some by using the 3 liter bottles to have the shield wrap further around the face

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## Altair

Thanks DIYSwede! We've added your UV Ozone Generator to our Miscellaneous category,
as well as to your builder page: DIYSwede's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:















UV Ozone Generator
 by DIYSwede

tags:
cleaner

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## Jon

Nice example of no-touch mechanisms for a hand-washing tool. By (not sure if I'm pronouncing this correctly) ልዋ ሚድያ. 0:41 video:




Something that this pandemic has really made me realize: I _like_ touching things. Buttons, controls, parts, pieces. Tapping, turning things over in my hand, running fingers along edges. Feeling textures and pressing things to know how different surfaces react to my touch. And this isn't just a sentiment or a personal preference. Tactile interaction is one of the ways that I gather and internalize knowledge about the world around me, and I'm sure many here are the same.

Now touching stuff is taboo, or you use a generic item to do the touching for you, or you have to wear gloves, which removes much of the sensation. I recognize that this is necessary, but I never realized how important it was to me.

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Tonyg (Mar 28, 2020)

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## DIYSwede

> Thanks DIYSwede! We've added your UV Ozone Generator to our Miscellaneous category,
> as well as to your builder page: DIYSwede's Homemade Tools.



Thanks, you guys! Guess this was my most "Miscellaneous" non-tool related post so far?
Seems like I wasn't entirely barking up the wrong tree a week ago, just winging my precautionary methods for "delaying the inevitable":
This site has provided *some interesting findings in truly diverse subjects* thru the years:




That guy usually delivers a solid scientific backing for his experiments,
and on the subject of ozone treatment he also references this study:
https://pennstate.pure.elsevier.com/...rations-on-esc
and forwards EPAs recommendations regarding commercially available products and their brand names:
https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-regist...nst-sars-cov-2

Take care all HMT:ers, wherever you are!
Thanks
Johan

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Jon (Mar 28, 2020)

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## Marzmanbill

Good job! being made of mostly plastic also makes it easier to wash, Bravo!

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## Jon

That guy did a pretty good job. I think that the USA and WHO messaging on masks may change. Fun fact: the current WHO leader has previously been accused of covering up three epidemics. NYT article: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/h...outbreaks.html

Here's an interesting PDF on mask sanitization and homemade masks from Stanford Medicine. It's full of warnings to not use these procedures at home, but it seems like they're just covering themselves legally.

Look at this common country comparison chart, with my basic red-and-blue box annotations, depicting the countries in which mask-wearing is common vs. those in which it is not. Not only does almost any barrier limit droplet transmission, but, because infected people are asymptomatic and contagious for days, widespread mask-wearing slows the spread of the virus.



Finally, for healthcare workers, I like this clever mask storage technique for reusing contaminated masks.



Your browser does not support the video tag.

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dubbby (Apr 2, 2020),

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HobieDave (Mar 29, 2020),

YOUCARS (Apr 1, 2020)

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## IAMSatisfied

I'm getting tired of the hysteria, misinformation & lack of basic math surrounding the actual threat of Covid-19, so I did some rudimentary calculations today based on current data for the U.S.:

DO THE MATH, FOLKS… THE SEASONAL FLU IS CURRENTLY ~3 TO 6 TIMES MORE DEADLY THAN COVID-19

Between October 1, 2019 and March 21, 2020 (172 days) between 24,000 and 62,000 people died from the SEASONAL FLU in the U.S., which is an average of between 140 and 360 deaths per day.

From February 29th, 2020 (date of first U.S. death) to March 28th (29 days) 1668 people have died from Covid-19 in the U.S., which is an average of 58 deaths per day.

Sources as of 3/28/2020:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...ses-in-us.html

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden...-estimates.htm

Yes, I'm aware that there's going to be a Bell Curve, and that if you could know the number of seasonal flu deaths as of the 67th day of the 2019-2020 U.S. flu season, then you could compare the numbers of deaths between the two contagions on the 67th days to get a *better* comparison... I don't know if that data even exists.

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## greyhoundollie

that is a great Idea. After you have the mask on you can spray the plastic container to make sure it is ready to put the mask in again at the end of your shift.

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## f800

This is an incorrect procedure for storage. In the operating room, we have to re use our N 95 mask. It is kept in a light paper bag to help the air borne droplets desiccate . Specifically instructed not to keep in a plastic bag ( this sealed container would have the same effect). Anesthesia personnel are at high risk when instrumenting the airway at the induction and emergence of surgery

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## Saltfever

> I'm getting tired of the hysteria, misinformation & lack of basic *math* surrounding the actual threat .
> . . . Yes, I'm aware that there's going to be a *Bell Curve . . .*



One issue it’s *not* a bell curve (which is a measure of standard deviation). It is an exponential curve. I won’t belabor this point but if you are still interested after reading below you can go here for an explanation of the current problem.

We have many people with preexisting conditions and when attacked by the flu some will have to go to the hospital for ventilators. Ventilators will save many. The Corona virus attacks differently. It hits the respiratory system in perfectly healthy people but most severely in our *healthy* older population. Normally, with managed medical care and ventilators, they would survive a pneumonia infection. With no ventilators they risk dying. That is the part you are missing. We have a finite supply of ventilators. The shape of the curve dictates whether our medical resources can meet the demand. A picture is worth . . . so look at the picture. We have *no vaccine* and a finite medical capacity. Accept that the red line is our supply of ventilators. Those above the line will die. Those below will survive. Your bell curve is medically manageable the other isn’t.




I tried to enlarge the pic but couldn't. Again, I tried to delete redundant pics. Sorry, it can't be done. I'll look for a forum tutorial.

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FEM2008 (Mar 29, 2020),

Jon (Mar 29, 2020)

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## FEM2008

> I'm getting tired of the hysteria, misinformation & lack of basic math surrounding the actual threat of Covid-19, so I did some rudimentary calculations today based on current data for the U.S. to put this in realistic perspective:



Please check out this article that explains the differences between Covd-19 and the Flu https://www.livescience.com/new-coro...-with-flu.html -It comes down to the percentage of people requiring hospitalizations and critical care. It appears to be an order of magnitude higher. Hospitalization length is very long, which is already overwhelming most regions. The death rate seems to be much higher among confirmed cases (the death rate in overwhelmed areas is hovering at about 10-12% of confirmed cases). So at the current projections, this will end up much deadlier than the seasonal flu. 

The flu is most infections after day 3 or 4 of exhibiting symptoms. Covid-19 is infectious up to 12 days before exhibiting any symptoms, so it makes it much harder to control. It concentrates highly in the upper airways making easier to shed the virus and infect others. * It's a stealth weapon!*

The flu fades predictably as the weather warms up. Covid 19 is spreading in countries which do not currently have the flu season and there are no signs of fading.

So what is wrong in trying to eliminate a new threat from becoming a permanent part of our lives? Even if ends being only as deadly as the flu, that doubles the number of dying people.

Cheers.

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Jon (Mar 29, 2020),

jsharp (Mar 29, 2020),

Saltfever (Mar 29, 2020)

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## Jon

Thanks guys. I'm handling a copy-pasted version of this just-the-flu position here. I'm deeply familiar with how shaky this position is, for various different reasons (which I'm happy to see our guys already know), and I also understand how WND is subtly quoting the NEJM article out of context.

It's OK to include some brief discussion here to address people's concerns as to why this really is serious, but I'll make sure this thread stays on track. We have a great discussion here with relevant and helpful homemade tools and ideas, and if it strays too far, I can just move some posts into another thread where people can discuss a just-the-flu position to their hearts' content.

The numbers are worsening so rapidly now that the best move seems to be to show people the data, then wait a few days for it to get even worse, then check in with them again. I remember when Wuhan first went on lockdown, and I convinced myself that it was just the flu. Part of "we're all in this together" is that we all go through the same cycle of disbelief when we encounter information on the virus.

----------

IAMSatisfied (Mar 29, 2020)

----------


## old kodger

Jon, I appreciate your concerns here and your efforts to rationalize the discussion on HMT, but if my comprehension of the situation in China, is correct, it's all done and dusted. Where the "western world" economies are all around minus 24/26%, China's is positive 3%, got to be more going on here than covid19.

----------


## hemmjo

> .....Where the "western world" economies are all around minus 24/26%, China's is positive 3%, got to be more going on here than covid19.



There are VERY SCARY statistics, way more disconcerting than the Virus itself!!!

----------


## f800

That is incorrect. Due to shortages, we have to reuse our N 95 in the operating room. Anesthesia personnel are at high risk for infection due to instrumenting the airway at the beginnings by and the end of the case. It is recommended that the N95 mask be stored in a light paper bag to help dessicate the virus. Plastic bag is contraindicated and the plastic box functions the same way.

----------


## IAMSatisfied

> Everyone should read this book: Linus Pauling's book
> 
> (1977). Vitamin C, the Common Cold and the Flu. W.H. Freeman. ISBN 978-0-7167-0360-0
> 
> Widely available but not cheap try the library



You can download a free PDF of that book here: https://ia803008.us.archive.org/18/i...%20Pauling.pdf

Lifestyle & dietary changes as homemade tools...

As the old adage goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. With that in mind, it's prudent to fortify one's immune system to be as robust as practical. Several ways one can do this are:

1) eat lots of fresh greens and veggies & shun all junk food. Get plenty of exercise, drink plenty of R.O. filtered water (1/2 oz. per lb. of body weight per day) and fresh air. 

2) Added, refined sugars, maple syrup, honey, etc. ALL diminish or neutralize the immune system and reduces white blood cell count. Avoid these.

3) High dose Vitamin C, as Pauling suggests in the above linked book, is very helpful.

4) Cold water therapy/cold showers/polar bear swims all significantly boost (~ double) the whit blood cell count (~ double), which are your body's "border patrol" that apprehends and "eats" foreign invaders. The more of these good guys you have on duty, the fewer invaders get through the border.

Of course, there are other things one can do to boost immunity, but this is a good start.

----------


## Jon

Pauling's advocacy of mega-doses of vitamin C has been widely discredited, as has his concept of Orthomolecular medicine. 

Advocating treatments such as this - which our best data tell us are very close to or equal to placebo in almost all situations - is harmful to people, because, even if the treatments have no effect, promoting them convinces people to prevent or delay the application of evidence-based treatment. This is especially true for Pauling's proposal to treat cancer with mega-dosing of vitamins. If you're interested in the complexities of the placebo effect, Harvard's Program in Placebo Studies is a good place to start.

There is a really narrow possible benefit of vitamin C supplementation, mostly for athletes, and there is some evidence that it _may_ shorten the duration of colds for _some_ people. And, of course, vitamin C supplementation can help people who are vitamin C deficient anyway (like all vitamins).

There is one study that intravenous vitamin C might help lower death rate in sepsis victims, and another study that vitamin C might help patients with sepsis and ARDS. There is no evidence that vitamin C will help prevent covid infection, and mega-dosing vitamin C can actually increase the risk of kidney stones.

Individual testimonials as to the value of mega-dosing vitamins may have correlated with positive effects for those individuals, and those individuals may be honestly sharing their personal experiences in a good-faith effort to help others. However, those effects do not present themselves when tested in larger populations, which strongly suggests - no surprise - that correlation is not causation.

Health improvements that laypeople attribute to practices such as vitamin mega-dosing are more likely caused by other activities that those people practice because they are more attentive to their health than average people. For example, someone may eat well, exercise daily, and mega-dose on vitamin C, and that person may attribute his improved health to vitamin C, when really he is healthy because he's participating in universally agreed-upon good health practices.

Some resources:

-Cochrane Review: Vitamin C for preventing and treating the common cold
-NEJM: Failure of High-Dose Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid) Therapy to Benefit Patients with Advanced Cancer — A Controlled Trial
-NEJM: High-Dose Vitamin C versus Placebo in the Treatment of Patients with Advanced Cancer Who Have Had No Prior Chemotherapy — A Randomized Double-Blind Comparison
-Harvard Medical School Coronavirus Resource Center

The New England Journal of Medicine, Harvard Medical School, and Cochrane Reviews are our most credible sources of medical information.

This Quackwatch article on Pauling is also good: The Dark Side of Linus Pauling's Legacy

This site, and especially this thread, isn't the place to push pseudo-medical treatments like vitamin mega-dosing, or low-quality news sources like WND. If someone wants to mention medically questionable advice once, fine. However, repeatedly pushing it isn't acceptable. Stop doing it, or I'll ban you.

----

Now, back to homemade tools. I like this 3D-printed hands-free door opening system. By Matthew Davis. 0:38 video:




This DIY mask with replaceable breathing filters is a very early prototype, but it's extremely creative, very low-buck, and has a lot of idea value.

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...s_fullsize.jpg





Your browser does not support the video tag.



Finally, some humor. Hat tip to mklotz for this page of coronavirus jokes. I especially like this photo for its sad-but-true quality:



And, no day would be complete without some toilet paper jokes. Here we have a good comic:



And a GIF of a corona-alchemist turning paper into gold:



Your browser does not support the video tag.

----------

Andyt (Mar 31, 2020),

bruce.desertrat (Mar 30, 2020),

DIYSwede (Mar 29, 2020),

HobieDave (Mar 30, 2020),

Saltfever (Mar 29, 2020)

----------


## FEM2008

> Jon, I appreciate your concerns here and your efforts to rationalize the discussion on HMT, but if my comprehension of the situation in China, is correct, it's all done and dusted. Where the "western world" economies are all around minus 24/26%, China's is positive 3%, got to be more going on here than covid19.



During the 1918 pandemic, cities and states that took the most aggressive measures and sacrificed the most were the ones that bounced back the quickest and had the best economic boom. The number of confirmed cases in the US is increasing by over 20k every day (as of yesterday) and doubling every few days, while China has had fewer than a 1000 cases almost all week. They are in the recovery while the rest of the world is still out of control. Other countries that took hard measures early are beginning to see their economy improve as well. 
It seems we failed to learn from our own history.

----------

Andyt (Mar 31, 2020),

Jon (Mar 29, 2020)

----------


## Jon

I've moved two posts from this thread into the Site Suggestions and Help forum, where anyone is welcome to discuss them there.

----------


## Jon

Machined mask mold, by Abo_91, a machinist in Italy. This is a good contrast to the Pringles can mask above. Click each one to play.



Your browser does not support the video tag.





Your browser does not support the video tag.



Also, I'm liking these memes that remind us how our culture is changing, with clever modifications to culturally iconic images.

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Sleykin (Mar 30, 2020)

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## neilbourjaily

If I may, "Advocating treatments such as this - which our best data tell us are very close to or equal to placebo in almost all situations - is harmful to people, because, even if the treatments have no effect, promoting them convinces people to prevent or delay the application of evidence-based treatment. This is especially true for Pauling's proposal to treat cancer with mega-dosing of vitamins. If you're interested in the complexities of the placebo effect, Harvard's Program in Placebo Studies is a good place to start." Jon
A good book for many here to read is Innumeracy by John Allen Paulos. He spends a significant amount of time discussing probability and its application in uncovering quackery.
You may choose to move this post. My concern here is the innumeracy of some commenters. Probability is important.

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Jon (Mar 30, 2020),

Saltfever (Mar 31, 2020)

----------


## Big Sexy

If I understand what you are saying, I am thinking it is because it has already mutated at least twice and maybe more. I also will add, I think there is a load of information being withheld from the civilians all around the world. I cant help but wonder about genetic predisposition with this. Because it makes no logical sense I can find about who it affects the worse. There has been very healthy and physically fit people die from it, but some very elderly it barely affects if they even contract it. The only thing I can think of that makes any sense is some sort of genetic cause and effect. Also seen that China has released info about some of the autopsys they have done that show up to 20% cardiac damage in patients that had no history of cardiac problems. 
Now I am a bit of a conspiracy theorist for the simple fact that I do not trust any government agency or federally level politician and high level state politicians. So with that said, it seems quite possible that information is being kept from us for some reason. If they can develop test that can determine if you are infected in minutes instead of days over the course of a few months, they have to know much more about the workings of this virus and are not sharing it.

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## Jon

_Innumeracy_ looks interesting; added to my list, thanks neilbourjaily.

Yes, that's how I understand it too; that we have multiple different strains of corona circulating. Check out this tool: https://nextstrain.org/ncov . Scroll down to "Transmissions", and click the green play button, and you can see a genomic animation of the spread. I don't know enough to know how much a strain difference matters, but that tool is fascinating.

Regarding government messaging; they have their goals, individuals have theirs. Western governments have already expended significant political capital pushing a masks-don't-work message. I understand that they have to preserve masks for healthcare workers, but they had to sacrifice public trust to make that move. That may have been a foolish move, or it may actually have been perfectly reasonable.

Let's talk numbers, especially in light of neilbourjaily's position about mathematical literacy. Note the now-famous Johns Hopkins covid map: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html . Let's examine the _closed case_ fatality rate. That means everyone who either recovered or died. So, all closed cases go in the denominator. As I'm looking at it now, that's total deaths + total recovered: 37,649 + 165,370 = 203,019. And of course the numerator is total deaths: 37,649.

37,649 / 203,019 = 18.5%. That's the current global _closed case_ fatality rate. In US, Italy, Spain, it's much worse. Public messaging says that there are many cases out there that aren't making it into the numbers, and I agree. This includes asymptomatic cases (no symptoms), and people who got covid, got sick, and the sickness resolved on its own, without those people being reported as covid positives. This group: asymptomatics + quietly resolved cases, will have to be very large to push that closed case fatality rate down to, say, below 2%. For example, if you have 10 times the number of closed cases, and zero additional deaths, that closed case fatality rate comes down to 1.85%:

37,649 / 2,030,190 = 1.85%

Fatality rates of emerging infectious disease are notoriously inaccurate, and it's reasonable to believe that the closed case fatality rate will come down, but nobody knows by how much.

----------

Christophe Mineau (Mar 31, 2020)

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## Christophe Mineau

Yes Jon I agree with the public policy about masks, and about mortality, here in France they say that figures take mainly into account the number of hospitalized cases. There is on one end a rate of mortality in the elderly hospices not really taken into account, but on the other end, there is a great number of cases treated at home, and fortunately people recover but the cases are not taken into account at the denominator.
But we must not, for now, as individuals, take too much focus on the deaths figures, we will have enough to discuss this after the crisis, and the concern for now is to avoid anxiety and stress. So personally, I tend to listen more music and close my radio very soon after breakfast.
The only message is to keep people at home, keep safe behaviors, mainly to protect the medical staff.
This is everyone's responsibility.

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## TheElderBrother

China may have _reported_ those numbers but you should also see this: https://www.ccn.com/coronavirus-deat...fected-bodies/

And this: 



Now, there's no telling how reliable that reporting is, but if you were the CCP, would you be totally straight with the world, or would you lie to cover your culpability in foisting off a pandemic on the planet?

Occam's razor. Is it a miracle that they Chinese are so lightly affected, or are they lying? 

It's a much simpler and much more likely explanation that the authorities in China are lying to you. The US is not the most affected country on earth. We're just reported to be.

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Saltfever (Mar 31, 2020)

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## DIYSwede

CCN explaining their Search Engine Optimization Writing methods, tips and tricks here:
https://www.ccn.com/seo-optimized-wr...r-journalists/

AFAIK, ony time will _perhaps_ tell whoever's right. 
Personally, I avoid click-bait sites, but then that's just me thinking many of them are merely revenue-generating "weapons of mass distraction".


Caveat: Occam's Razor could also be used as a conclusion-jumping pole in a complex world of seemingly paradoxical facts.

Just my two cents.
Johan

PS: _"All solutions and no clues. That's what the dumbheads want...
That’s the bloody Novel: He said - she said - and descriptions of the sky.
I'd rather it was the other way around. All clues. No solutions. 
That's the way things are. Plenty of clues. No solutions."_ 22:38 into:




Philip Marlow in "The Singing Detective" TV series

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## TheElderBrother

Disregard whatever you like. It's got nothing to do with the headlines and who posted them. It has to do with the likelihoods of which explanation makes the best sense. 

By the way, Tim Pool, who posted the video, is one of the most trusted people in journalism, so dig in and find a rationale so you can dismiss him too, but you aren't convincing anyone of anything worth believing by pointing to old television and reciting vague generalizations. 

But just for kicks, here's the Pollyanna's national anthem, in case you need to feel good about something completely irrelevant to the point:

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## DIYSwede

> Disregard whatever you like. *It's got nothing to do with the headlines and who posted them.
> It has to do with the likelihoods of which explanation makes the best sense.* 
> 
> By the way, Tim Pool, who posted the video, *is one of the most trusted people in journalism,*[Citation needed] so dig in and find a rationale so you can dismiss him too, but you aren't convincing anyone of anything worth believing by pointing to old television and reciting vague generalizations. 
> 
> But just for kicks, here's the Pollyanna's national anthem, in case you need to feel good about something completely irrelevant to the point:



Thanks, and pardon me for using an old vid for driving an epistemological query of confirmation bias & jumping conclusions.
I'm *not* trying to convince anybody - my point is simply put: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_criticism.
Your concerns and explanations for my methods, dismissals and feelings are truly irrelevant to the point.
Have a nice day!

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## hemmjo

There are so many points of view in this big world, about everything, not just this situation. While it is good that we can discuss all of these things, it is important to remember that we all have different backgrounds that affect our points of view. Even in families, there are differing views, we MUST remain respectful of each other. It is ok to disagree, and to offer differing points of view, let us all remain respectful during these times of especially high stress. 

The stress itself is harmful and makes us more susceptible to infection.

Stay Safe everyone!!!

John

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## Jon

At this point, we can just totally disregard China's numbers. Their society is not open like Western societies, they recently kicked out journalists and sealed their borders, and they're the single largest global abuser of human rights (other countries may be worse, but China's population is so large that they win that distinction). Most importantly: we have plenty of data from other countries whose reputations for honesty are much better than China's.

Current closed case fatality rates include China's unusually optimistic figures. If we look at USA-only, then that number is 36%. Italy: 44%. France: 28%. Spain: 30%. We really need that denominator to grow, a lot, soon, before our healthcare systems are overwhelmed.

Christophe Mineau is right about stress. However, I also like the advice that says to panic NOW, not later. Stock up, lock down, and establish your household rules and decontamination protocols. Don't wait for the Official Government Announcement to make your decisions. We are ALL technical people here, and we know how to crunch numbers ourselves.

Government is already backtracking on their "masks-don't-work" message. Even the New York Times has finally declared: It's Time to Make Your Own Face Mask, with a cute little graphic cutout template  :Smile:  We're way ahead of them.

Media and governments are also slowly drip-feeding out worse and worse figures. First: just the flu. Next: just like a _bad_ flu. Today: front page NYT now says 84K dead in the US by beginning of August, and that's only if we use a Wuhan-style lockdown, which will be hard to enforce in America. For example, that means government-mandated apps to monitor and restrict people's movements (click to play):



Your browser does not support the video tag.


And police beating people in the streets for violating quarantine rules (click to play):



Your browser does not support the video tag.


A much better comparison than the flu is to compare covid (SARS-CoV-2) with the original SARS (SARS-CoV-1), an early 2000s China-originated horseshoe bat intermediary virus with similar symptoms and pathology, and a death rate of 9-10%. Just because one is CoV-1 and the other is CoV-2 doesn't necessarily mean that they will have the same effect, but, thus far, this comparison has been more accurate than influenza.

Let's look at ventilators. Here's a link dump from my bookmarks file. Two fronts here: making ventilators, and using a ventilator for multiple patients - this is the noble T-fitting's time to shine!

This is a mix of elite university projects, hack-a-thons, open source projects, github repositories, recently resurfaced old designs, 3D printing, Arduinos, windshield wiper motors, scuba masks, mobile phone apps, shop-vacs, etc. Looks like iron lungs are coming back into fashion too  :Smile: 

https://panvent.blogspot.com/
https://web.mit.edu/2.75/projects/DM...l_Husseini.pdf
https://gitlab.com/open-source-ventilator/OpenLung
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...tors-1.5504484
https://assets.publishing.service.go...VS001_v3.1.pdf
https://old.reddit.com/r/crowdsource...g_mask_into_a/
https://e-vent.mit.edu/
https://old.reddit.com/r/COVIDProjec...t_can_be_made/
https://github.com/jcl5m1/ventilator
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...Cmsi4NOUk/edit
https://hackaday.com/2020/03/25/vent...how-they-work/
https://simulation.health.ufl.edu/te...lator-project/
https://forum.prusaprinters.org/foru...cy-ventilator/
https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus...controlled_by/
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....24.20042234v1

Resource pages:
https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Categ...es#Ventilators
https://old.reddit.com/r/OpenSourceVentilators/
https://old.reddit.com/r/COVIDProjec..._resource_hub/


Finally, some memes. A nice commentary on how working-at-home doesn't work for everyone:


A truckload of thoughts and prayers on their way to help out covid victims:


Trekkies will love this one:

----------

greyhoundollie (Mar 31, 2020)

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## greyhoundollie

That guy needs a serious manicure

----------


## NeiljohnUK

My Universities medical faculty has been attempting to reinvent the wheel, well almost, they've 'invented' a belt mounted HEPA filtered battery powered fan box that connects to a hood and visor they also made, we've been using Sundstrom system that does all that for years...

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## Jon

Let's look again at faceshields. Here's a good variety of a few designs.

MIT is working on various designs for the pandemic. Here's an 0:58 video of their face shield design:




MIT also has some other coronavirus projects in the mix. You can see them under "active projects" here. Unfortunately, the face shield files "are currently only being provided to professional die cutters". Seems kinda lame.


I also like this beautiful "facehugger" style of face shield I saw floating around. I think this design image is all that's available right now. No idea if it can be reasonably manufactured:




In the lowbuck category, we have this one:

Fullsize image: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/h...d_fullsize.jpg




And some memes. No day would be complete without a coronavirus toilet paper meme. I like the circular groove details on the top of the cake rolls.



US households with taxpaying citizens under a certain income level will be receiving $1,200 checks per adult, and $500 per child. I think I'd rather that the government gave out food coupons or rent vouchers or some such, so that this money can't be spent irresponsibly. Nevertheless, the irony of this stimulus was obviously not lost on this sinking-boat meme:

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verticalmurph (Apr 1, 2020)

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## FEM2008

Prusa has a great resource for an open source #D printed face-shield design here: https://www.prusa3d.com/covid19/

(update) These shields use a standard paper punch to make holes in the overhead transparency sheets. Make sure to select the correct version based on the punch spacing (e.g. European vs USA). 

Various mixes to fit different needs can be found here: https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/25857/remixes. There is also a particularly useful mix for smaller printers: (look for RC3 for Pursa mini) or direct link https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints...for-prusa-mini



Cheers!

----------

clydeman (Apr 2, 2020),

Jon (Apr 2, 2020),

volodar (Apr 4, 2020)

----------


## hemmjo

My son is making a bunch of those for the local hospital. The laser cutter cranks out the clear shield in 20 seconds. 

Takes 3 hours for each 3-D printer to make 1 frame. There is room for 2 on each platten so every 6 hours you get two and start the machine again. With 6 machines running that is averaging 1 frame every 30 minutes or about 50 per day, if you go back to restart the printers every 6 hours. 

There is a problem finding elastic for head bands since everyone went out and bought all of the elastic from the fabric stores..

Someone donated the money for materials.

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HobieDave (Apr 4, 2020)

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## piloon

He could get creative, example: cut strips of inner tubes to replace elastic.
In fact I have some facial devices that I replaced funky elastic that way.

----------

FEM2008 (Apr 2, 2020)

----------


## FEM2008

hemmjo,

Bless your son for doing that. I just fired up my 3D printer and will be printing the US version. Mine will take longer than 3 hours, it seems, but I am using conservative settings with ABS. There are mixes that print much faster, but some seems to be lightweight - probably OK light duty for personal use.

I am going to print a couple, in case someone in the family gets sick . I am going to try and use either rubber bands, swim goggle straps.

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## Jon

A few bits to add today. Now that the CDC has approved a change in the laws of physics for US citizens, homemade masks DO work for limiting societal spread of the virus. These masks offer limited protection to the wearer, and, they prevent infected people (who may be asymptomatic) from spreading droplets in coughs, sneezes, and regular exhaled breaths.

First, here's this microscopic analysis of scarves and different materials for use as masks, by Biobadger.





More https://imgur.com/gallery/29CdByo


A Los Angeles boutique clothing manufacturer setup a home lab with a mask particle filtration tester so that they could analyze the efficacy of different fabrics. Here's Suay Sew Shop CEO Lindsay Medoff with her setup:



Here's the cool part. They found that one of the most effective filtration fabrics is...blue shop towels! Maybe they're finally worth their price.



More: https://outline.com/Y6dD9e


Best find of the day though - the US NIH (National Institutes of Health) has a huge resource page with a bunch of 3D printing designs for Covid masks, shields, filter cases, respirators, ventilator parts, etc.



More: https://3dprint.nih.gov/collections/covid-19-response


And a couple of memes. Here's a nice commentary on the scent of Lysol, which is both somewhat unpleasant, yet now extremely reassuring:




And, a classic Chris Farley "That Was Awesome" meme, that urban dwellers will find particularly sad-but-true:

----------

baja (Apr 5, 2020),

high-side (Apr 5, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 6, 2020)

----------


## piloon

The cat is out of the bag!
BLUE SHOP cloths. (COSCO has best price)
Yes, that is what I make mine from.
For elastics U can use the ones that come from bundling fresh vegies at the supermarket.
In fact I made masks simply using my office stapler to create the folds.
Also you should note that the manufactured masks use 3 plys.
One sheet of shop towel folded will make a 2 ply easily so take 3 sheets of shop towel and cut in half so you get 2 masks from each 3 sheets.

Since these are 'throw a way' masks the stapler method is more than adequate INMHO
Main problem is the void around your nose area. I suspect a soft 'clip' or dabbing of hot glue could create a nice 'springy' nose clip.
A clothes pin works but they are too tight. LOL.

I got the blue shop rag idea as that is what I use on my shopvac to pick up gyprock dust and that's ultra fine dust!

----------


## Jon

Do blue shop towels have a strand or fiber orientation or grain? If so, if using multiple layers, would it make sense to alternate the layer orientation 90 degrees? Also, would boiling them have any effect on shrinkage? For reference, note this CDC homemade respiratory mask for bird flu in third world countries. They're made with cotton t-shirts, and they recommend to boil the fabric; also see in the image how they recommend layers of alternating straight and cross grain.

----------


## IntheGroove

There are other household items you can use to make a face mask...

----------


## Saltfever

HANDS-FREE DOOR OPENER:
Here is a way to open your doors without touching the handle. Should be of interest to those with 3d printers or a CNC machine. Free Models can be downloaded to your CAD system. If someone modifies the CAD model for easier manufacturability or to fit a different configuration of a handle, please let us know.

----------


## lowracer

> The cat is out of the bag!
> <snipped stuff>
> 
> Main problem is the void around your nose area. I suspect a soft 'clip' or dabbing of hot glue could create a nice 'springy' nose clip.
> A clothes pin works but they are too tight. LOL.
> <snipped stuff>



have a look at some of the ground filter coffee packages. locally some of the non-Ziploc bags comes with a piece of coated aluminum "flat", that you can use to reseal the bag

----------

Jon (Apr 5, 2020)

----------


## billd

> Let's look again at faceshields. Here's a good variety of a few designs.
> 
> MIT is working on various designs for the pandemic. Here's an 0:58 video of their face shield design:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MIT also has some other coronavirus projects in the mix. You can see them under "active projects" here. Unfortunately, the face shield files "are currently only being provided to professional die cutters". Seems kinda lame.
> 
> ...



The idea behind the $1200 is to stimulate the economy the whole economy, all facets of the economy.Not all people live without a backup pantry.
sorta reminds me of the ant & grasshopper IMHO !!!!

----------


## Jon

This is a clever method to increase surgical mask (as opposed to N95 mask) filtration efficiency, with the use of three rubber bands. 2:34 video:





More:

https://www.fixthemask.com/
https://imgur.com/gallery/KIw75UR

----------

nova_robotics (Apr 6, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 17, 2020)

----------


## Frank S

And in a few months everyone will have bug ears from the rubber bands pulling on their ears  :Lol:

----------


## NeiljohnUK

> And in a few months everyone will have bug ears from the rubber bands pulling on their ears



Regular wearers of 'ear' type surgical masks know the trick of wearing a headband with a button each side to hook the mask onto instead of their ears, surgical masks are an exhalation filter to catch the wearers breath.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 17, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Another solution to the mask strap ear problem.

----------

byates (Apr 11, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 17, 2020),

Seedtick (Apr 10, 2020)

----------


## Frank S

> Another solution to the mask strap ear problem.



something that will push their ears out even further  :Smash:

----------


## Jon

Full face respirator. By Big Bits Studio. 6:00 video:

----------

dubbby (Apr 26, 2020),

geotech (Apr 11, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 17, 2020)

----------


## Crusty

Here's some pics of that CV19 decimated little dump in China, Wuhan, where they eat bats. (wrong on all counts - my ignorance is showing).

----------

jimfols (Apr 20, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 17, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Interesting. That's a weird mixed video of different buildings from across China. I've been seeing a lot of vids like this lately. It's been hard to tell if they're just capitalizing on various Wuhan and COVID keywords to gain views, or if they're part of China's social media spin campaign. More info here: China Pushes Viral Messages to Shape Coronavirus Narrative.

----------

jimfols (Apr 20, 2020),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 17, 2020)

----------


## Crusty

Well hell. Wrong on yet another count. The dumb is strong with this one.

----------


## Jon

Those compilation vids got me at first too! Other ones I've seen:

-Wild animals loose on the streets during COVID lockdown! (mix of true COVID clips, plus various wild-animals-on-streets videos over the years).
-Police brutality in COVID era! (mix of police smacking people for not wearing masks, plus assorted police videos from over the years).
-Traffic mayhem after COVID lockdown! (mix of recent COVID traffic events, plus miscellaneous road rage footage from over the years).

Etc.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 17, 2020)

----------


## Frank S

If your going to have granda you have to have propagranda

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 17, 2020)

----------


## Crusty

Now I understand something about a country that I didn't know before.

----------

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 17, 2020)

----------


## FEM2008

Medronics, a medical equipment manufacturer of a compact ventilator has made the design of their model PB 560 open source recently. :Clapping:  :Clapping: 
To access the files, you need to register on Medtronic's website. Beyond that, you are free to use the data to reproduce the ventilators. You cannot use their logo though. More info can be found here:

https://www.medtronic.com/us-en/e/op...S_Covid19_FY20

----------

Jon (Apr 20, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Some bits today.

Distinctions are being made between COVID droplet transmission and aerosol transmission, but it's now generally accepted that COVID is indeed airborne. Short NEJM letter to the editor with basics on this.

Mass transport systems are being carefully analyzed as routes for infection. This paper from MIT economist Jeffrey Harris examines some data supporting the belief that NYC's subways were largely responsible for mass infection.

I heard that Restaurant Depot is opening up to regular consumers. They usually supply just restaurants, but apparently they're issuing day passes to people, and they're doing online ordering and curbside pickup. They're similar to a Costco, but their prices are much lower. You need to buy very large quantities, but I've also heard that they're breaking down large quantity boxes into smaller ones for people.

For DIY Coronavirus builds, I like these homemade UV-C light boxes. Technically this is called UVGI - Ultraviolet Germicidal Irradiation. People are using these to decontaminate masks and PPE, as well as groceries and mail before bringing them into their homes. UV-C light is dangerous, so approach these builds cautiously! It can burn your skin, and it's a known carcinogen. This guide is helpful: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...Oh3wa-UhCJ6ZU/ . This one too: https://www.n95decon.org/

4:21 video. More: https://uvgi-diy.com/



Made from a cheap plastic tupperware container.


Arduino-controlled. More: https://create.arduino.cc/projecthub...needlab-3ed2f5


I think this is real. Punishment for breaking quarantine in Colombia. More info here.


Some memes and funny stuff:

A wallet in the COVID age:


Some quarantine furniture. I wonder if alcohol sales are rising or falling. No more public events, but many people are stuck at home and unemployed. I think most of them aren't immersing themselves in their hobbies like we are.


I like this comic, because it reminds us that touching your face is actually really difficult.

----------

baja (Apr 26, 2020),

dubbby (Apr 25, 2020),

FEM2008 (Apr 20, 2020),

jimfols (Apr 20, 2020),

KustomsbyKent (Apr 20, 2020)

----------


## FEM2008

Thanks, Jon for the posting the latest info about mask decontamination. There was a study done in Japan in 2006 for the first SARS virus (link below) , and it found that UV-C treatment failed to completely inactivate the virus and a small amount remained viable even after extended treatment. It appears the study you linked to uses much higher doses of UV-C, but that could compromise the masks physically. UV-C will deteriorates elastic quickly, not to mention the extreme danger to eyes. Anyone attempting to use UV_C for sterilization should use a safety interlock system to cut power off if a door is opened or a lid is lifted. With the exception of quartz, most glass and poly-carbonate materials will (at least partially) block UV-c wavelengths, so those should not be used as an interface between the light source and the item being sterilized, bit don't count them to protect your eyes. 

https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/89211

I saw your comment about the CDC changing their mind about recommendations on the use of face masks a week or two ago and I have been holding off on commenting. I am in the camp that if your are going to wear something to protect yourself, then do it right. But, I do believe that wearing anything will help slow down the spread to others.

What changes is that I did have to venture to the store a few times since then and given the current environment, certain things stand out more readily. Covid pandemic or not, some of the things I have seen makes me want to wash everything I bring home before putting in my fridge or pantry. There are a multitude of people of have no qualms about touching their noses or mouth (like licking their fingers before picking up a shopping bag), or even sneezing in their hand and continue touching things. One notable example was a person wearing a mask at the grocery store apparently needed to rub his nose. He did so by lifting the mask and sticking both index fingers into his nostrils simultaneously and proceeded to rub vigorously. He continued to shop and touch items with sanitizing hands. I guess if you are going to get infected, might as well give the virus a head-start and make sure it's well seated into the nasal cavity :Headshake:  :Headshake:  I've seen a multitude of workers who wear their mask over the mouth but not the nose, or just over the chin. I have seen a good number who tie the mask with top strap alone, and let the mask dangle over their nose, looking more like a belly dancer than one worried about keeping the virus at bay. :Head Scratch: 

Lastly, I cannot begin to count the number of people I see wearing a mask over a thick beard. Back when I worked in industrial hygiene, wearing a mask over a beard was a no-no. trying to get a mask to have good fit even with stubble was near impossible. I suppose they are not going to protect themselves in any way, but it will shorten the distance the virus spreads.

Speaking of virus spread, the latest scientific recommendations recommend at least 10ft distance.
(stepping down from the soap box)

----------


## Nick79

Effective but violates the recommended minimum of 6 feet separation.

----------


## owen moore

I am curious if an ozone generator in a confined space would kill this virus on contaminated clothes and equipment, not humans. I even wonder if it would work for groceries. Would any of you know?

----------


## old kodger

> I am curious if an ozone generator in a confined space would kill this virus on contaminated clothes and equipment, not humans. I even wonder if it would work for groceries. Would any of you know?



I run a 'bigger than average' (from memory it's about ten grams per hour)ozone generator in my bedroom for an hour when I go to bed, it is set to turn off after an hour. I've been running it for far longer than this covid 19 rubbish has been going, the original instructions did say don't use it in occupied rooms but I assure you that I'm very much alive and kicking. Yes, it is producing ozone, you can smell it.
They are used to sterilize operating theaters, probably much stronger than mine

----------


## DIYSwede

> I am curious if an ozone generator in a confined space would kill this virus on contaminated clothes and equipment, not humans. I even wonder if it would work for groceries. Would any of you know?



AFAIK: It will, preferably combined with high humidity. I use it in an improvised "virological lock" in our hallway.
While elaborating/ writing this a few weeks ago:
Coronavirus and homemade tools
I found a handful research reports from non-affiliated labs in a fairly narrow search on the "Interweb". 
Didn't save them, though.
Conclusion was: It's effective, even at low ppms, preferably at 50% rel humidity or higher.

This might be a good and easy start:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone 
and this video:



Caveat: Ozone has some bad side effects to humans apart from killing viruses, too...
While producing ozone outta air with *a corona-discharge unit*, you also get N2 as a by-product, 
*which can be irritating/ harmful to your respiratory system.* 
*UV units doesn't have this unwanted trait.*
Personally I wouldn't enter a room under treatment. No point in getting worse off by the cure, right?
I wait at least an hour before entering, given that ozone has an assumed 30 min decay time in household air.

I'm not saying this is some wonder cure against all viruses, I just happened to have a free unit lying around - and found it could be used.
So I figured - what harm can it do? - and could it perhaps prevent some?
* I don't know for sure. Guess the future won't show that either - but at least I tried.*

Just my 2 cents and YMMV - use your good sense for your own protection.

Cheers, Johan

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Jon (Apr 21, 2020)

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## Drew1966

Im a distiller, so I just spray things with pure alcohol. (95.62%)

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## DIYSwede

> Im a distiller, so I just spray things with pure alcohol. (95.62%)



Seems like 80 % ethanol + 5 % isopropyl alcohol is regarded optimal by some studies, as:
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...e_disinfection

Suggested reading from CDC for intrepid home chemists:
https://www.cdc.gov/infectioncontrol.../chemical.html

Some (other) cheap DIY:ers swear by 70 % ethanol (rest water) to add time to wet the surface, and enough time to work before it vapors off.
Personally I use a 3% sodium hypochlorite solution for surface cleaning, since last fall when my youngest caught the 
_Cryptosporidium Hominis_...

YMMV

Johan

----------


## Jon

Isopropyl alcohol is great for disinfecting surfaces, just not for N95 masks. Apparently they have an anti-particle electrostatic charge that is harmed by alcohol.

I've read that diluting alcohol to around 70% is advantageous because higher concentrations evaporate before the recommended surface exposure time.

Barbicide is still available, and it's listed on the EPA list of approved disinfectants for coronavirus. You can still order the concentrated version in gallons or half gallons. Beauty supply and barber supply websites have extra stock of it now.

----------


## Drew1966

> Seems like 80 % ethanol + 5 % isopropyl alcohol is regarded optimal by some studies, as:
> https://www.researchgate.net/publica...e_disinfection
> 
> Suggested reading from CDC for intrepid home chemists:
> https://www.cdc.gov/infectioncontrol.../chemical.html
> 
> Some (other) cheap DIY:ers swear by 70 % ethanol (rest water) to add time to wet the surface, and enough time to work before it vapors off.
> Personally I use a 3% sodium hypochlorite solution for surface cleaning, since last fall when my youngest caught the 
> _Cryptosporidium Hominis_...
> ...



I actually use a mixture of methanol, ethanol and both 2 and 1 propanol, as it comes out of the still, and in that order. The propanols have higher boiling points than the others and hence a longer contact time before they evaporate. I usually add around 2% of 3% peroxide to kill fungal and mould spores. If Im using it as hand sanitiser, Ill also add 1.5% glycerine or propylene glycol and about 30% of deionised water.

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Jon (Apr 21, 2020)

----------


## old kodger

"Caveat: Ozone has some bad side effects to humans apart from killing viruses, too...
While producing ozone outta air with a corona-discharge unit, you also get N2 as a by-product,
which can be irritating/ harmful to your respiratory system."

As a result of this post, I did a small amount of research. Lets look at N2, N is a nitrogen atom, but is unstable and requires another N atom to pair with, because N has three unpaired electrons. Pairing with another N atom satisfies the requirement of both N2 IS nitrogen as found in the atmosphere and it's concentration in the atmosphere is 78%. 
Now my question is: - how can a naturally occurring element (7 on the periodic table), being more than 3/4 of the atmosphere, "be irritating/ harmful to your respiratory system" ?
I can comprehend however, that because big pharma can't patent ozone, in keeping with their historical performance, they would "lobby" to have a scare tactic thrown into the works to inhibit people from using it. As I said in my last post, I'm sill alive and kicking.....with no signs of respitary distress.

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## jdurand

N2 is a nitrogen MOLECULE, N is an atom. As you pointed out it got an affinity with bonding to something. THAT is what causes trouble, the bonding might break a molecule you need for something else, or the broken molecule may now be poisonous, or the new molecule with the N2 becomes poisonous.

A common fertilizer, KNO3 is kind of good at letting go of that O3 if something more appealing comes along and releasing pent up energy in the process. Making some of these combinations can land you in jail in the USA and probably other places.

----------


## hemmjo

> "Caveat: snip... 
> Now my question is: - how can a naturally occurring element (7 on the periodic table), being more than 3/4 of the atmosphere, "be irritating/ harmful to your respiratory system" ?



Oxygen is also a naturally occurring element that is essential for life. Oxygen can be found alone O, combined with another O atom to make O2, or combined with 2 other O atoms to make Ozone (O3). All 3 forms are Pure Oxygen. But O3 is toxic.

Sodium and Chlorine are also VERY TOXIC to our health. But you love them on your food, as long as they are combined to make SALT

----------


## jdurand

> Oxygen is also a naturally occurring element that is essential for life. Oxygen can be found alone O, combined with another O atom to make O2, or combined with 2 other O atoms to make Ozone (O3). All 3 forms are Pure Oxygen. But O3 is toxic.



And again it's the reactivity. Both O and O3 are looking for something to mate with. They REALLY want to bond. O2 will bond fairly easily, but needs a drink or two first.

----------

Drew1966 (May 8, 2020),

mr herb (Apr 28, 2020),

Saltfever (May 2, 2020)

----------


## Drew1966

> "Caveat: Ozone has some bad side effects to humans apart from killing viruses, too...
> While producing ozone outta air with a corona-discharge unit, you also get N2 as a by-product,
> which can be irritating/ harmful to your respiratory system."
> 
> As a result of this post, I did a small amount of research. Lets look at N2, N is a nitrogen atom, but is unstable and requires another N atom to pair with, because N has three unpaired electrons. Pairing with another N atom satisfies the requirement of both N2 IS nitrogen as found in the atmosphere and it's concentration in the atmosphere is 78%. 
> Now my question is: - how can a naturally occurring element (7 on the periodic table), being more than 3/4 of the atmosphere, "be irritating/ harmful to your respiratory system" ?
> I can comprehend however, that because big pharma can't patent ozone, in keeping with their historical performance, they would "lobby" to have a scare tactic thrown into the works to inhibit people from using it. As I said in my last post, I'm sill alive and kicking.....with no signs of respitary distress.



I believe that the corona discharge actually produces N2O, nitrous oxide, which binds with the haemoglobin in our blood and does not release the way oxygen and carbon dioxide do. This has the effect of making those haemoglobin complexes unavailable for O2/CO2 transport.

----------


## old kodger

> I believe that the corona discharge actually produces N2O, nitrous oxide, which binds with the haemoglobin in our blood and does not release the way oxygen and carbon dioxide do. This has the effect of making those haemoglobin complexes unavailable for O2/CO2 transport.



last post on this matter.
Is that a belief system, or provable FACT?

----------


## DIYSwede

> I believe that the corona discharge actually produces N2O, nitrous oxide, which binds with the haemoglobin in our blood and does not release the way oxygen and carbon dioxide do. This has the effect of making those haemoglobin complexes unavailable for O2/CO2 transport.



Thanks for pointing out my initial missing "O" and bad proofreading, Drew1966. N2O/ Nitrous oxide is the released gas, of course!
N2 is already around us, just as Oldkodger stated...
Sorry - my bad!

Johan

PS: Nitrous Oxide (a k a "Laughing Gas") is no laughing matter:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide#Safety

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Drew1966 (Apr 23, 2020)

----------


## Jon

_(Moved four politically-themed posts out of this thread and into Off-Topic. This is a good discussion, and I want to preserve its value.)_

Some supply chain updates. Is there a meat/dairy shortage impending for USA? We've certainly noticed that Amazon Fresh is limiting our order quantities of meat and dairy, and, for some orders, we're not getting some of the meat and milk that we ordered. On the one side, we have the issue of meat processing plants becoming COVID outbreak hotspots, which is exacerbated by the fact that farmers have limited windows of time in which they can slaughter animals for delivery to processing plants and ultimately the consumer market. On the other hand is the argument that large US meat packing companies are positioning for government bailout funds.

Fuel prices are dropping. We scheduled a propane tank fillup, and the per-gallon price was much lower than it usually is. One gas station near us had run out of gas, and a rumor was circulating in our town that another gas station had watered down its gas. Fuel stabilizer on Amazon is still available, but I had to poke around a bit to get a gallon of it from a third-party seller.

From the U.S. Coast Guard Los Angeles twitter feed, here's a short video of tanker vessels anchored off the coast:



Your browser does not support the video tag.


We're starting to see some proposals for changes to common objects that consumers interact with. Behold the Finnish Fortum Lever, for opening grocery store refrigerated doors with your forearm. Is this the same forearm that we're supposed to sneeze into? And also bump our elbows with people to replace handshakes? Or is that just a transitional narrative to ease us into the reality that touching is dangerous now?



Similarly, here's the CleanKey. Stuff like this will be easy for our guys to make. I wouldn't mind an accompanying sleeve for it, so that it doesn't just go back in your pocket. 0:44 video:




Then there's this reversed middle seat concept with droplet shields, for preventing infection on airplanes, from Italian company Avio Interiors. Is that woman holding an invisible cup?



More: https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2020/0...9-janus-seats/

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nova_robotics (Apr 27, 2020)

----------


## old kodger

> Thanks for pointing out my initial missing "O" and bad proofreading, Drew1966. N2O/ Nitrous oxide is the released gas, of course!
> N2 is already around us, just as Oldkodger stated...
> Sorry - my bad!
> 
> Johan
> 
> PS: Nitrous Oxide (a k a "Laughing Gas") is no laughing matter:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide#Safety



Aside from the omission of the "O" that is not the only error, (according to, I think it was wiki..) N2O nitrous oxide (laughing gas) has a half life of around 5 minutes and is breathed out in very short order. HOWEVER, NO2, is nitrogen dioxide, and IS dangerous in high concentrations, does have a smell (N2O is odourless), and does indeed irritate lung etc
So in regard of my original post. I stand corrected in that being in the room with an ozone generator might not be such a good idea, but I'M still not displaying adverse effects.....yet.

----------


## DIYSwede

> I stand corrected in that being in the room with an ozone generator might not be such a good idea, but I'M still not displaying adverse effects.....yet.



AFAIK only the corona discharge ozone units (working with air input) generate N2O, not the low pressure UV discharge lamp types
(who also, due to their way of operation, cannot reach very high ozone levels in air: less than 0,5% of weight) - 
but personally, I give at least half an hour after turn-off before entering a treated space.

Regarding NOx, I've not seen any reports on that being formed in any ozone producing unit,
but mostly through combustion at fairly high temperatures (cars, furnaces and the like surrounding us).

2 cents, YMMV

Johan

----------


## old kodger

Quoting "Regarding NOx, I've not seen any reports on that being formed in any ozone producing unit,
but mostly through combustion at fairly high temperatures (cars, furnaces and the like surrounding us)."

Agreed, however, and this is rationalizing only, if a corona discharge unit is capable of cracking air into it's component parts, I see no reason why, if N2 can recombine with O to produce N2O, which according to all the pundits does not cause respiratory distress, that N could just as easily recombine with two O to produce NO2, which does.
I recognize that I'm arguing against my own first post, but when someone challenges my long held beliefs, I try to do unbiased research, if that research turns up evidence that my belief is incorrect, I must accept the outcome.

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## DIYSwede

> if N2 can recombine with O to produce N2O, which according to all the pundits does not cause respiratory distress, that N *could just as easily recombine* with two O to produce NO2, which does.



I guess we would've seen some reports finding this would be the case, then?
I haven't found any studies of this coming outta any ozone generator.

Giving the hypothesis a shot:
You mean like this: *2 NO + O2 → 2 NO2*?
But then this equilibrium follows : *2 NO2 ⇌ N2O4*

OK - this will perhaps not "just as easily recombine" as NO2, as one might assume? 

For producing NO2 (rather than "just" N2O4, dinitrogen tetroxide), the "elevated temperatures" seems to be crucial.
At room temp the equilibrium above apparently favors N2O4 in what's (eventually) being produced.

Positive oxidizer, used (with gasoline) by Crocco* in 1930 for liquid rockets, 
used extensivly in the US and USSR from the late fifties. 
Hypergolic with Aerozine 50, UDMH & MMH, to mention a few: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperg...pellant#Common
Out of fashion today, replaced by MON because of "reasons":



*OTOH*: Dinitrogen tetroxide (NTO) isn't something brought from the health store, either:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinitr...o-Soyuz_mishap

I abstain from derailing this thread further, as it pretty quickly would become rocket science,
but for delving further into THAT area I (again) recommend the outstanding biography of John D. Clark: "Ignition!"
(foreword by Isaac Asimov - no less.):

http://www.sciencemadness.org/librar...s/ignition.pdf

*Quote from the book on this Italian intrepid researcher (coincidentally a contemporary compatriot of the Futurists):



ATB
Johan

----------


## Nick79

The rear facing seats look great, but airlines will never agree as they take up too much space and space is money.

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## Drew1966

> The rear facing seats look great, but airlines will never agree as they take up too much space and space is money.



If the seats are correctly mounted, they wouldn’t use any extra space, but it’s only a CGI concept, so no issues

----------


## Frank S

> If the seats are correctly mounted, they wouldnt use any extra space, but its only a CGI concept, so no issues



Except for trying to get from the window to the isle would be still the same problem seats leaning back and folks with their feet stuck under the seat in front of them, only now you would have to negotiate folks facing in both directions I hate flying in those sardine cans in the first place and sure wouldn't want to fly in one with reversed seating

----------


## Drew1966

> Except for trying to get from the window to the isle would be still the same problem seats leaning back and folks with their feet stuck under the seat in front of them, only now you would have to negotiate folks facing in both directions I hate flying in those sardine cans in the first place and sure wouldn't want to fly in one with reversed seating



So get a train or ship instead Frank. That way you can enjoy hating the trip even more! LOL

----------


## Frank S

> So get a train or ship instead Frank. That way you can enjoy hating the trip even more! LOL



after arriving back in Texas from over seas in 2013 Since the USA never developed a decent rail service like there is in Europe, I decided that if I can't drive there I'm not going.

----------


## Drew1966

> after arriving back in Texas from over seas in 2013 Since the USA never developed a decent rail service like there is in Europe, I decided that if I can't drive there I'm not going.

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## piloon

FAA would not accept rear facing due to 'crash worthy' issues. Also seats would need a whole new certification in that position as they were certified for impact in opposite direction. In my past I went thru certifying modified seats for a client. (Tests at 6G's and 9G's etc.) Also no airline will agree to intentionally fly a 1/2 loaded aircraft for the same price as they operate on a 90% or so load factor.

----------


## Frank S

Rather fitting don't you think

----------


## Jon

Two quick bits today. One is a new use for a tool in the COVID age, and the other is a new tool for the COVID age.

In the U.S., we're dealing with meat supply chain issues, in great part because meat production is very fickle and time-sensitive. At the beginning of the chain, farmers are having to euthanize animals because meat processing facilities can't accept them. At the other end of the chain, large grocery chains are limiting meat purchases for consumers.

How do you dispose of thousands of head of livestock that have to be euthanized? Apparently you use a wood chipper.




> The Minnesota Pork Producers Association is working with the team to establish three other composting sites in the state.
> 
> They are trying to find other areas where there are congregations of large swine operations so they can better serve those people with a centralized site, Crusan said, adding that farmers will have the option to deliver hog carcasses to those sites or compost on their own property.
> 
> The hog carcasses delivered to the Nobles County site will be run through the chipper simultaneously with the wood material  a new concept in the hog industry.



More: https://www.twincities.com/2020/05/0...hington-plant/

And here we have a prototype for the CleaRing - a portable disinfection tool from @pdzethzurich on Instagram. Next step might be to use copper (Coronavirus hates copper), and I wouldn't mind seeing a greater ability to adjust the shape of the sponge disinfection surface, so that it can sponge flat surfaces too, or possibly even pull door handles open.






Your browser does not support the video tag.

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AKpapa (May 10, 2020)

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## DIYSwede

Seems like some Chinese outlets whips out loads of discount ozone generators:



Advertised as a do-all, cure-all method "for use in the home, hotel room, conference centre, karaoke bar, car, RV" etc.
Specs for this particular unit is sparse, but *it seems to be of the "Corona Discharge" type**,
pulls half an amp (at 220 VAC only) that equals *110W*,
and thus cranks out a hefty *24 g/h of ozone* - which *could* be detrimental to the stuff you're curing:

I've read in another forum thread from a dude working for a fire sanitizing company, 
who'd just bought a really cheap car from a chain smoker:
He got the brilliant idea to borrow one 250 W Heavy Duty ozone generator from work,
and run it overnite in the car to rid it form the smell.

He got the car free of smell, all right - but all rubber parts within the compartment had petrified, 
giving him a hell of a time to even get the unit back out, as all rubber seals had fixed the doors positively shut. 
I never posted asking whether he scrapped the car or tried to refit everything "rubberish" inside.

My small unit pulls a mere 15 watts and gives plentiful of ozone for my 9 cubic meter hallway.

Two cents & YMMV

Johan

*Corona discharge units also "provide" Nitrous Oxide - which could lead to respiratory problems, established earlier in this thread:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide#Safety

----------

dubbby (May 31, 2020)

----------


## Jon

Ford created a software patch to kill Coronavirus in NYC police vehicles, using the cars' heaters.






> And that’s when an engineer at Ford realized: They didn’t need bleach to kill COVID-19 when the car’s own heater could do the job instead. And over the process of just 40 days, the auto company created a software patch that could upgrade the Interceptors to self-sterilize with the climate control system in just 15 minutes, no elbow grease required. (That patch is currently being installed on NYC police vehicles, and it’s offered to police officers free nationwide through dealers, though Ford is unsure how many have received the update to date.)



More: https://www.fastcompany.com/90510004...ar-heater-hack

----------

baja (May 31, 2020),

dubbby (May 31, 2020)

----------


## FEM2008

New sterilization method seems to work on N95 masks. Research paper can be found here: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.102...stlett.0c00534 
and FAQ here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...zKI0y0ijY/edit

----------


## NeiljohnUK

> _(Moved four politically-themed posts out of this thread and into Off-Topic. This is a good discussion, and I want to preserve its value.)_
> 
> 
> Similarly, here's the CleanKey. Stuff like this will be easy for our guys to make. I wouldn't mind an accompanying sleeve for it, so that it doesn't just go back in your pocket. 0:44 video:



The cleankey is a great idea, until a Police officer realises it also makes a usable knuckle duster, so not much good it the UK (banned it country), I've been making these out of 1/4" copper pipe offcuts and it does much the same thing, but it can't be mistaken as a weapon (hopefully). The broken s-biner lets it hang easily from a pocket or belt. Grip handle is ~1911 angle, later versions are P.08.

----------

Altair (Sep 3, 2020),

Jon (Sep 3, 2020),

Karl_H (Sep 2, 2020)

----------


## Frank S

> The cleankey is a great idea, until a Police officer realises it also makes a usable knuckle duster, so not much good it the UK (banned it country), I've been making these out of 1/4" copper pipe offcuts and it does much the same thing, but it can't be mistaken as a weapon (hopefully). The broken s-biner lets it hang easily from a pocket or belt. Grip handle is ~1911 angle, later versions are P.08.



Still wont be of much use in the land of the round door knobs 
People of today's time period are becoming far too FAUX germophobic because it is trendy

----------


## Drew1966

Simple. Elegant. Nice for most uses, but, as mentioned, no good for round doorknobs.

----------


## NeiljohnUK

> Simple. Elegant. Nice for most uses, but, as mentioned, no good for round doorknobs.



Thankfully here we have lever type door handles, knobs are considered unsuitable for disabled users being hard to grip, and too easy to tie a ligature on.

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## Altair

Thanks NeiljohnUK! We've added your Antimicrobial Hand Tool to our Miscellaneous category,
as well as to your builder page: NeiljohnUK's Homemade Tools. Your receipt:















Antimicrobial Hand Tool
 by NeiljohnUK

tags:
door, hand tools

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## Jon

The old concept of furnace filter plus box fan has evolved into a more effective variant, and been born again as a homemade tool for filtering COVID, with the backing of a group of aerosol scientists and HVAC industry leaders, the requisite COVID-era element of government conspiracy, and plenty of duct tape.



This COVID air filter build is being called a Corsi-Rosenthal box. It's essentially just a box fan duct-taped to MERV 13 furnace filters. A little more on its Wikipedia page, this Encycla page, and this CleanAirCrew FAQ. COVID aside, it's an inexpensive and highly efficient air filter that you can build in under an hour. HMT forum members have been building air cleaners with box fans and filters for years.

The Corsi part of Corsi-Rosenthal filters is Richard Corsi, an environmental engineering professor. The other half is Jim Rosenthal, the CEO of the HVAC company Air Relief Technologies. Corsi is on Twitter here, and Rosenthal is on Twitter here. The Corsi-Rosenthal box also has the approval of Bill Bahnfleth (Twitter is here), who is the chair of the Epidemic Task Force of ASHRAE, the American Society of Heating, Refrigerating and Air-Conditioning Engineers. 

3M has also recently come out in support of Corsi-Rosenthal boxes; they ran their own tests and concluded "This Corsi-Rosenthal box movement is legit". Underwriters Laboratories also backs up the efficacy and safety of DIY air filters; see An Evaluation of DIY Air Filtration. Plenty of aerosol scientists have also jumped on board, including: Jose-Luis Jimenez, Kimberly Prather, Linsey Marr, Lisa Brosseau, Marwa Zaatari, and Eben Cross.

This group seems to be mostly united in their position that COVID is _predominantly_ spread via the airborne route, and not via larger expelled respiratory droplets (they call these "ballistic droplets"). Thus, air filtration is reasonable, especially in colder seasons when ventilation is less practical. Airborne aerosols can stay suspended in the air for hours, like smoke, whereas expelled respiratory droplets arc downward to the ground in about 2 meters. Government COVID messaging worldwide was initially firmly droplet-based, and is now _slowly_ backpedaling to an airborne position. Jose-Luis Jimenez (a highly-cited chemistry professor with a doctorate in Mechanical Engineering from MIT) has a good summary here laying out the reasons why COVID is primarily transmitted by airborne particles, and it's backed up by an article in _The Lancet_ called Ten scientific reasons in support of airborne transmission of SARS-CoV-2. There is also a large COVID airborne FAQ written by many atmospheric chemistry and aerosol science professors and scientists here. Even more aerosol scientists in support of this are listed here: https://www.covidisairborne.org/



Some caveats:

1. There is strong backing to this position, but that alone doesn't mean that it's correct, especially in full. Science has many dueling factions.

2. The Corsi-Rosenthal box movement is popular on Twitter, but Twitter is not representative of any scientific field, and most scientists don't use it at all. There are often only a handful of heavily-cited scientists (whose volume of citations _also_ does not make them correct) on Twitter for each field.

3. There is a tendency, especially during the pandemic, for a field to want to "own" COVID by ascribing its nuances to their own area of scientific pursuit. For example, this biases neurologists to look for a COVID link in the central nervous system, immunologists to focus on T cells, and aerosol scientists to point to air sanitation.

COVID positions are usually not complete without an element of government conspiracy, and the Corsi-Rosenthal box does not disappoint. Interestingly (and rarely), this position is neither politically left nor right. If COVID spreads primarily through expelled large respiratory droplets that arc down to the ground within 2 meters - they call this belief "droplet dogma" - then this shifts responsibility to individuals (mandating social distancing, handwashing, and homemade masks), whereas airborne acknowledgement shifts it to governments and corporations (mandating filtration of indoor public spaces). Mandating filtration of air in indoor public spaces has little impact on personal liberties, and thus little value as a political football. In fact, we already do this. Large HVAC installations are regulated in some places because they can spread Legionnaire's disease, so named because it was first discovered breeding and spreading via the air conditioning system at an American Legion convention in 1976.

Some graphic examples of this government spin, from Corsi-Rosenthal box advocates:





The key quantitative question is: How much reduction of COVID spread can we get from cleaning indoor air? We don't know, and it's difficult to model, but the tradeoff between reduction of spread and sacrifice of personal liberties seems like an easy win. A little more on modeling this reduction (ventilation + Corsi-Rosenthal boxes + UVGI) is here.

Furnace filter plus box fan is not a new idea, and we have plenty of entries in the homemade tool encyclopedia with early versions of it. You might have even experimented with it yourself. Here are a couple of builds by the guys on this forum:

By mr95gst:


By markfitz:


The cardboard-and-duct-tape construction of the Corsi-Rosenthal box is more rudimentary, and is intended to be built by people with minimal skills. The cube shape, which at first may appear gimmicky, is a reasonable way to maximize the filter surface area. It also incorporates a fan shroud to counter backflow around the edges of the box fan, which can be cut from the fan's cardboard package.

The construction of Corsi-Rosenthal boxes has recently started to shift from ad-hoc assembly to mass DIY manufacturing:



Here's a basic homemade tool for producing the fan shrouds in bulk:



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This record player concept is clever, with the printed record label in the center and the tone arm switch:



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Conceptually interesting, but unnecessary rotation is a red flag for gimmickiness.



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Probably not practical, but this is an interesting take on connecting a CR box to a CO2 reader (these are used as proxies for measuring likely concentrations of coronavirus in the air). More info here. 3:49 video:




The cardboard and duct tape is endearing, but something like this would be more aesthetically acceptable to HMT members:



Another nice one, with more details here on GrabCAD:



Corsi-Rosenthal boxes use MERV 13 rated filters, which should filter out most of the aerosol drops in which coronavirus virions travel; around 1 micron in diameter. Yes, this means that you can also just filter coronavirus by putting a MERV 13 filter on your forced air furnace or air conditioner, although you should then rebalance it. They would be useful for pollen, wildfire smoke, and of course shop dust too. They're usually arranged in a cube shape, with the box fan on top, pushing air upwards, the filter flow direction arrows pointing into the cube, and some spacers on the bottom so that air can flow through the bottom filter (if it is built with a bottom filter, and not a cardboard bottom). The same concept can also be constructed with two or three sides, although the cube shape provides the greatest filter surface area, at the lowest noise level. Note how the airflow orientation pulls the sides of the cube together (the corners are also taped). Cost is under $100, and a child can build one.



A detailed assembly guide using a circular fan is here. 

Analyses indicate that they're at least as effective as $1,000+ filters, and the filters should last at least 6 months, depending on use. The increased airflow and filter surface area may make them superior to most HEPA filters (equivalent to MERV 17-20), because although they have comparatively lower filtration efficiency for one pass, they have a higher flow rate and filter air faster (see CADR or Clean Air Delivery Rate). There's a good preprint on HEPA vs. Corsi-Rosenthal box efficacy here: Price-performance comparison of HEPA air purifiers and lower-cost MERV 13/14 filters with box fans, and another here: Characterizing the performance of a DIY air filter. Another nice UC Davis study is here: Testing Different Configurations of Do-It-Yourself Portable Air Cleaners. More analysis from Rosenthal is here, and also here from atmospheric chemist Eben Cross.



Here's a comparison of PM values for air before and after the Corsi-Rosenthal box:



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Not all filters are performing equally; Rosenthal published an efficiency test here. People are making Corsi-Rosenthal boxes with the popular FilterBuy brand of filters on Amazon, but those aren't testing very well. Some more filtration test data:





I don't know if Corsi-Rosenthal boxes will be a transitional tool used only until we develop stricter indoor air filtration practices, or whether their utility will eventually make them more ubiquitous. They're far less controversial than masking or vaccination, and they're an easily constructed homemade tool that anyone can build.

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## IntheGroove

I probably won't build one but if I did I would make it blow-through instead of draw-through to keep all the badness inside...

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