# Tool Talk >  airplane short takeoff/landing records

## Jon

I remember watching Alaskan videos of Short Takeoff and Landing (STOL) when I was doing my private pilot training. Hey, I thought, that'll be me real soon. My instructor had a good chuckle at that one.

STOL is, by no surprise, a great tradition among Alaskan bush pilots. First of all, Alaska has six times as many pilots per capita as the US average. Second, the terrain provides many opportunities for skilled pilots to land and take off in limited but remote and beautiful locations. Finally, it offers something highly valued among all pilots: bragging rights.

Here's a 2016 highlights video from a famous yearly air show in Valdez, Alaska that hosts a legendary STOL contest. Go straight to 1:40 if you want to see the winner of the experimental bush plane class.

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## Toolmaker51

Certainly the outsize tires add weight, but leverage at the same time. Trick seems to be 'pop a wheelie' except rear wheels first! At first frames before TO figured large diameter tires were to increase incidence and of course for unimproved runways. Then the tail-dragger bounced off tail wheel. Big surprise. Cold weather, high latitudes, and a little nerve don't alter physics.

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## PJs

Most impressive Jon, didn't know about the STOL show up there but been away from good pilot stuff since Dad passed...may be on my bucket list now. Miss it too.

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Paul Jones (May 22, 2018)

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## Jon

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## Frank S

touch down to wheel stop in less than the length of the plane. Impressive

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## PJs

That's what I would call Stickin' a landing!

Since this has come around again I'll share the best STOL I ever saw. It's an excerpt from a letter I wrote to the Thunderbirds after Dad's passing in 07'. Our family has a long history with the Thunderbirds back to 58' in Germany...

"In 65’ Dad went to Viet Nam to fly 123’s over there. He never talked much about it but know he got 14
oak leafs and did a bunch of short take off and landing stuff. When he came home in 66’ I kept asking
him how the flying was over there and all he would say was 15-18hr days and a couple of stories about
banana leaves in the landing gear. The year he got back he was ask to fly a simulated assault at the
memorial day show at Hamilton. That was the day I got to see how my dad the PILOT could really fly.

He took that 40,000lb butterfly, tipped the nose up till the cargo door was level and 6’ off the runway then
squatted her in about 300 yards. The crew rolled out 10,000lbs of fuel in about a minute and a half and as
the last pallet came off dad was cranking her around and pouring on the coal. The cargo door just closed
as the nose wheel came off the ground and the same tail level thing on take off. The crowd groaned with
amazement and I remember the people next to us saying something about Who is that Pilot?…I said,
pretty loud…That’s MY Dad! Mom grinned and a bunch of people smiled and clapped. Even my little
brother cracked up. One of my most Proud and cherished memories…I knew then what Dad did in Nam,
only on bad runways and bad weather with people shooting at him."

I wrote the letter while I was making Dad's memorial video and mentioned in the letter my wife and I would be at the Mather show shortly after because I needed to see them once again and some "Precisionist" flying again. After the show I got to meet with them again and when I walked up to the commander and stuck out my hand and said, Hi I'm Patrick...he took my handshake looked me in the eye and all he said was, did you like our missing man! I had created a missing man from pics on their website for his video ending. Obviously lost it for a minute then he introduced me to the rest of the crew...kind of blur now but they signed my hat and saw my F100 pin given to me 50 years ago, by one of the first Thunderbird commanders in Germany at the O'club the night of their show. Why I got the pin is a whole other story.

Here is the picture of my hat with my F100 pin, the signatures of the crew and a 07' "Ambassador's in Blue" medallion from the show. It hangs on a hook in our bedroom next to the Wright Flyer model (which actually flies) I built many years ago.



Thanks Jon!

PJ

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Jon (May 16, 2018),

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Toolmaker51 (May 15, 2018)

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## Paul Jones

PJs,

Great story about your dad and thank you for sharing with us.

Paul

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PJs (May 22, 2018)

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## PJs

> PJs,
> 
> Great story about your dad and thank you for sharing with us.
> 
> Paul



Thank you Paul,

I sometimes think it's good to share those stories in honor of unsung people for how they lived and how they impact our lives so others may perhaps find a light.

 :Hat Tip:  PJ

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Frank S (May 22, 2018),

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Toolmaker51 (May 23, 2018)

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## Jon

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## PJs

That's one way to gain airspeed! Yeesh!...package check, hold on tight boys!  :Stick Out Tongue:

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Toolmaker51 (Aug 5, 2018)

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## Frank S

Who needs a runway in a bush plane if you have a nice cliff?

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philipUsesWood&Brass (Oct 14, 2018)

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## Frank S

At an air show one time I saw a guy completely brutalize a homebuilt twin engine 4 prop push pull stubby wing bi-plane. He came in at a near vertical stall dropped his rt. gear in a wash tub his flaps were already hard down but as soon as the wheel entered the tub he went hard up on the rt. flaps sent the vertical stabilizer full rt and throttled the left engine wide open made a 180 pirouette, flapped the rt. and throttled the engine the tub moved around some but from where our vantage point was it looked almost like he had done a pin point landing 180 spin and take off

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philipUsesWood&Brass (Oct 14, 2018),

PJs (Aug 6, 2018)

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## Toolmaker51

Saw vid and thought "one way to gain airspeed! Yeesh!...package check, hold on tight boys!", scrolled down and lookee here PJs beat me to it. A sheer drop-off that distance above forest, I'm thinking he'll only get one try...practice would be facilitated how? OK, lock brakes, jam throttle, full flaps and tuck 'er in sonny.
I guess leveling off qualifies as flying home once your internal organs catch up. I'd cheat with helium in those balloon tires.

"Tuck in" was a favorite joke on PCH/101, San Benardino/10, Grapevine trying to catch a car full of eyecandy IYKWIM, not too different than "Hotrod Lincoln". If we were on bikes it'd make sense and not be funny, I caught anyone I wanted on the Z1R, even the Sportster, but behind windshield of an El Camino? Priceless. 
Still have the ElCO by the way, since 1970, legit second owner of Ol' '65 the Fleetside Ferrari. Not much motor, but 2.73 rear end, < 3300 lbs, wide ratio Corvette trans, lightweight dual disc flywheel running one disc, and suspension assimilated from air conditioned big block GTO's and Monte Carlo's. For awhile speed limit was 55 and it could; even initiate U-turns, literally.

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## Frank S

" For awhile speed limit was 55 and it could; even initiate U-turns, literally"
and those doing the U turns had the wrong color doors for the paint color of the car right?

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## Toolmaker51

> " For awhile speed limit was 55 and it could; even initiate U-turns, literally"
> and those doing the U turns had the wrong color doors for the paint color of the car right?



lol Frank buddy. I just tested and learned it, and demonstrated to my self; judiciously! So the described Ueys were mine. 
Now, once on the Sporty; an 16mi roundtrip during 30 minute lunch home for shop keys... Lights were with me all the way. Last mile of return leg was a radar trap, This was mid 80's so radar wasn't all that awesome. Never saw it, likely behind a low billboard. Anyhoo, got back to shop, rolled up little incline of lot, idling, kickstand already down. Bumped front tire to curb in gear and dismounted. Motor officer rolled up as I reached door advising me he couldn't ticket if I wasn't aboard. "I couldn't catch you sooner".
I was young and full of myself. "Well of course not, on a Moto-Guzzi".

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PJs (Aug 6, 2018)

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## Jon

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## Frank S

> <video controls autoplay>
> <source src="https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmt-forum/glider_plane_takeoff.mp4" type="video/mp4">
> Your browser does not support the video tag.
> </video>



Jon seeing this last video reminds me of a friend of mine. he just turned 72, someone he knows has 2 para sails and wants to learn how to fly them. He told my friend that he would give him 1 if he would teach him and his grand son how to fly one.
I asked "W" if he had ever para sailed. NO but I've watched lots of videos and listened to you tell me about how to handle a parachute how hard can it be I'll just jump off a cliff.
Man I was 18 the first time I dropped from a 60 ft tower hanging from an already fully deployed chute and 21 the last time I strapped 1 on None of my talks would have much relevants today. except for maybe some of the safety precautions. If you want to learn to para sail find someone who has 1 and a boat , learn to ski first then get him to buddy sail it with you and teach you at least the water might not be quite as unforgiving but the landings can still break limbs.
But if you decide you have to do this do not expect me to sign your body cast.

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Scotsman Hosie (Apr 11, 2019)

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## PJs

Love those para-gliders, Jon. Hi tech and aerodynamic. Mom and Dad both got their tow-glider certs while we were in Germany. Surprisingly Mom enjoy it as much as Dad...I just got to watch and wait although went up with Dad once...amazingly quiet and inspirational in the countryside. These shots look like Germany to me?

Not to veer off STOL too much but it does relate to dancing on the edge and catching air once in a while... 




> I caught anyone I wanted on the Z1R, even the Sportster, but behind windshield of an El Camino? Priceless.



Wow TM51...I had the first Z1 in Marin (73') and ate Sportsters for breakfast and H2's with expansion chambers for lunch and was plus a 100lbs. Only vehicle I ever gave a male name to..._A bike called_ - Bruce! He'd pull the front wheel off in third and pegged the speedo once. And then there was the Sunday run down the coast through Marin...till the cops got wise and one ID10T passed on the inside of the 270° coming down into Mill Valley becoming bug splatter. I tricked out a 70' Elky for a friend but no way it was more priceless than being stopped and turned around on a 1/4mile run, after a loud mouth on an H2 called me and Bruce out...he didn't even stop to admit the shame, just putted on by, never to be seen again. And...some how I resemble the cop story...too much to Koinkidink away...You been walkin in my shoes, Bud?

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## Toolmaker51

Ate Sporty's? One of them maybe not. Borrani wheels, Bridgestone 70's, Sifton Cams, Drag Pipes, 40DCOE, Rajah plug terminals, a weird Moon coil, stock 1000cc but 11:1 Venolia's, if only Andrews gears were developed earlier...I normally got them to buy a rolling start. Generous pinheads thought RPM's meant everything. 
Lol, torque is what gets things moving. 
I wanted to emulate Jerry Magnusen's [Santa Ana, CA] crank driven blower setup, his 2-71 PEPCO magneto ironhead. I was probably enough machinist, but too little tooling for what is kinda highly WAY dialed-in work. 
It didn't have a name so much as a title..."Cut Across Sporty"
And noooo, if you've been 6'6'' since then I definitely wasn't rocking your shoes. I wore 9D at the time.

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## Frank S

Pj back in 79 -80 I worked with a guy building nat. gas compressors and in 80 he and I took on a contract to design and build drill rigs . Before then at 1 time he was legendary in the moto cross and enduro crowd for his tuned expansion chambers. Called Bankie pipes. I remember visiting his shop a couple years before , he had something like 30 or 40 very young just out of high school if that sitting at tables oxyacetylene welding up those chambers. with 100's of patterns hanging on the wall every piece was hand cut and formed on small mechanical rollers. I was never into oil burners but those who were swore by his pipes.

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## Toolmaker51

Too bad 2-stroke engined high performance bikes didn't stay around for the widend digital era. Can you imagine what tuning they could accomplish now?

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## PJs

> Ate Sporty's? One of them maybe not. Borrani wheels, Bridgestone 70's, Sifton Cams, Drag Pipes, 40DCOE, Rajah plug terminals, a weird Moon coil, stock 1000cc but 11:1 Venolia's, if only Andrews gears were developed earlier...I normally got them to buy a rolling start. Generous pinheads thought RPM's meant everything. 
> Lol, torque is what gets things moving. 
> I wanted to emulate Jerry Magnusen's [Santa Ana, CA] crank driven blower setup, his 2-71 PEPCO magneto ironhead. I was probably enough machinist, but too little tooling for what is kinda highly WAY dialed-in work. 
> It didn't have a name so much as a title..."Cut Across Sporty"
> And noooo, if you've been 6'6'' since then I definitely wasn't rocking your shoes. I wore 9D at the time.



Well maybe not that one but several other wanna be's. Don't think any could keep up in the corners though. Did a few things to the forks, swing arm, rear shocks, running K87's and being that tall gave me the ability to toss it over pretty easy. I ground of 2 Generator covers dropping knees till they leaked and sold it before the 3rd started leaking. Only thing I got beat by in straight runs, was a Pantera and a VW microbus...Yep, with a 911S motor. The Pantera was from 45 up to 100 and then he started pulling away...the bus had me from 50 on.

Torque....Interesting about the Z1's is that torque range especially off the line. Dumping the clutch at 4 grand it would dog down then catch. At 5 grand it would light the tire up and sit there...but at ~4500 he'd launch pretty good with a little spin and nose up about an inch.

Frank, I never liked oil burners much either except on dirt where expansion chambers could be dialed in and made a difference but the noise drove me nuts. Banke rings a bell but yang yangs were never in my wheel house.

PJ

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philipUsesWood&Brass (Oct 14, 2018)

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## Jon

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## Frank S

> <video controls autoplay>
> <source src="https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmt-forum/paraglider_bad_takeoff.mp4" type="video/mp4">
> Your browser does not support the video tag.
> </video>



Yep that's about what I figure will happen to my friend should he ever try the stunt

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PJs (Aug 8, 2018)

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## Toolmaker51

What a way to blow a day, and miss a few at work. Certainly short take-off, dang near straight up. Keeping his shrouds in order, sure didn't get a panoramic view of shoreline. Probably didn't appreciate close up of flora & fauna in landing...

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## Jon

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## Frank S

> <video controls autoplay loop>
> <source src="https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmt-forum/hang_glider_ramp_takeoff.mp4" type="video/mp4">
> Your browser does not support the video tag.
> </video>



was that his superman or batman cape he was wearing? Probably wasn't superman because eh was still relying on the wings to float above the clouds.

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## PJs

It's a bag to tuck into once airborne. Adds to aerodynamics but a bit rough to disembark from prior to landing.

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## Frank S

> It's a bag to tuck into once airborne. Adds to aerodynamics but a bit rough to disembark from prior to landing.



 I can imagine. Nothing like having your feet tangled in your boot laces when landing from a jump. Getting them out of a bag seems to me would be even worse

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## PJs

> I can imagine. Nothing like having your feet tangled in your boot laces when landing from a jump. Getting them out of a bag seems to me would be even worse



Not as bad as it looks or sounds. To me it's handling the zipper while flying one handed. I think some have bottom zippers and a pull system to open and close them...but you can land in them. More about the physics of pulling yourself up and out from the upper part of the bar. They are actually pretty hi-tech and for a long flight, saves a lot of muscles provides water and pouches for stuff and a Chute in case the stuffing hits the fan.

Here is one brand
https://www.woodyvalley.eu/en/cat/hang-gliding/

Page 22 of the booklet tells how to dismount prior to landing
https://www.woodyvalley.eu/download/.../tenax4_en.pdf

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## philipUsesWood&Brass

> <video controls autoplay loop>
> <source src="https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmt-forum/hang_glider_ramp_takeoff.mp4" type="video/mp4">
> Your browser does not support the video tag.
> </video>



NICE.

philip

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## Toolmaker51

> Not as bad as it looks or sounds.....They are actually pretty hi-tech and for a long flight, saves a lot of muscles *provides water and pouches for stuff and a Chute* in case the stuffing hits the fan.



Exciting! Who knew? More sophisticated than visible to the uninitiated observer. 
Had no idea there were First Class accommodations in hang gliders.

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PJs (Oct 15, 2018)

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## owen moore

He doesn't know that take-offs are optional, but landings are mandatory. He also looks like he is breaking flight rules by flying a hang glider in IFR conditions.

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PJs (Oct 21, 2018),

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## Jon

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## neilbourjaily

Imagine a Special Forces troop swooping in silently on those.

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## jackhoying

I think he may have done that once or twice before!

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IAMSatisfied (Oct 24, 2018),

PJs (Oct 29, 2018),

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## PJs

Now that is a classy short field take off! Place looks familiar just up the coast.

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## Jon

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## Frank S

Got to be an Alaskan bush pilot

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## PJs

Do you know what kind of bird that is Jon? Interesting and why what he did is possible are the leading and trailing edge Ailerons. Had to be less than 30 feet both ways! The tail wheel touches down about where the front wheels touched down...

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## ranald

Some takeoff, can't imagine the revs; and the landing: some pilot & plane. must have giant magnets to switch on & off .

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## Jon

Piper cub? Maybe modded a little for this kind of stuff. Also, like many aviation GIFs, probably perfect wind in this one.

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PJs (Jan 25, 2019)

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## owen moore

If you look at the water, he could have been in a head wind of 30 mph or more. That would let a little plane almost hover. Kind of like a carrier landing except no carrier.

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PJs (Jan 25, 2019)

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## ranald

> If you look at the water, he could have been in a head wind of 30 mph or more. That would let a little plane almost hover. Kind of like a carrier landing except no carrier.



What about take off Owen? I'm not a pilot.

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## Frank S

> If you look at the water, he could have been in a head wind of 30 mph or more. That would let a little plane almost hover. Kind of like a carrier landing except no carrier.



The movement in the water is not from wind, if you watch closely you can tell it is current flow. the jetty he landed on is little more than a sand bar building up in the river.

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## Frank S

> Piper cub? Maybe modded a little for this kind of stuff. Also, like many aviation GIFs, probably perfect wind in this one.



Jon a lot of the smaller Cessnas like the 180 and 185 are used as bush planes as well as Beech and DeHavilland 
Here is a website IE rabbit hole about Alaskan bush planes
Best bush planes: Flying Cessna, Piper, Beech, DeHavilland, airplanes & aircraft

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KustomsbyKent (Jan 24, 2019),

PJs (Jan 25, 2019)

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## IAMSatisfied

Here's a little context to the art of bush piloting skill:

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PJs (Jan 25, 2019),

ranald (Jan 25, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 11, 2019)

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## Clockguy

You could literally land on a postage stamp with that plane!!

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## toma

I suppose that big front wheels are helium pumped... :Idea:

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## PJs

> Piper cub? Maybe modded a little for this kind of stuff. Also, like many aviation GIFs, probably perfect wind in this one.



My hit after a bit of rabbit holing is it is a Modded Kit Fox, adding the front ailerons. The fuselage is what confused me as the Pipers and the Super Piper are more rounded. Typically there is a lot of modding done on these bush planes depending on their use and areas of service...the holy grail being the Dehavilland DHC-2 Beaver for HP, versatility and capacity.

Great thread Jon, Thank You!

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## briankirk725

> My hit after a bit of rabbit holing is it is a Modded Kit Fox, adding the front ailerons. The fuselage is what confused me as the Pipers and the Super Piper are more rounded. Typically there is a lot of modding done on these bush planes depending on their use and areas of service...the holy grail being the Dehavilland DHC-2 Beaver for HP, versatility and capacity.
> 
> Great thread Jon, Thank You!



Very similar, but this is a variation on the classic Super Cub. It's called the Stolquest SQ12 (a 4 place Super-Cub with a bunch of other mods). Supercub.com is their site.

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Jon (Jan 26, 2019),

PJs (Jan 27, 2019)

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## Ed Weldon

This is an amazing performance for a fixed wing aircraft. I wonder what not so visible changes were made and what limitations the modifications place on other aspect of the plane's performance and reliability. Certainly some added weight there. Anybody have a link to more info? Ed W

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## briankirk725

> This is an amazing performance for a fixed wing aircraft. I wonder what not so visible changes were made and what limitations the modifications place on other aspect of the plane's performance and reliability. Certainly some added weight there. Anybody have a link to more info? Ed W



There's a nice little summary here under the "Backcountry Super Cubs" section: KITPLANES The Independent Voice for Homebuilt Aviation - Super Cub Kit Comparison - KITPLANES Article

The big thing is the leading edge slot which brings the stall speed way down. Longer wing control surfaces are another (also to be able to control the plane at low speeds). Engine mods and using carbon fiber are other common changes. There's a balancing act to be sure. Add a bigger engine, then you might want to lower the weight elsewhere to compensate (less electronics, lighter seats, carbon fiber, etc). The supercubs.org forum is another resource to check out to get a lot of information/theory on all of that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading-edge_slot

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PJs (Jan 27, 2019)

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## PJs

> Very similar, but this is a variation on the classic Super Cub. It's called the Stolquest SQ12 (a 4 place Super-Cub with a bunch of other mods). Supercub.com is their site.



Thanks much for chiming in here. I'm just a novice with eyes for details and love STOL slow goers. I understand that there is a bunch of modding on these aircraft, but your links show or tell little of what SQ12 actually is in final form and I followed a bunch of other rabbit holes from them. _Thanks for the links!_ The one in the first picture of the article under "Backcountry Super Cubs" is similar but the wing struts, elevator, gear and nose cowling seem quite different and can't see the full tail.



The Backcountry Boss has some features of the one in Jons post except a 4 seater, and has dual wing struts. Backcountry BOSS – Backcountry Super Cubs

The one in Jon's pic is definitely not a 4 seater, has a tail like a T-38 and the fuselage, wings and the engine cowling looks like the Lycoming version of the Kit Fox with the Alaskan 26-29" tire add-on. Only way to know for sure is if Jon could source the Gif/MP4 somehow and we could rabbit hole that.

I may be wrong and happy to admit it but mainly corn-fuselaged.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

 :Hat Tip: 
PJ

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## briankirk725

> Thanks much for chiming in here. I'm just a novice with eyes for details and love STOL slow goers. I understand that there is a bunch of modding on these aircraft, but your links show or tell little of what SQ12 actually is in final form and I followed a bunch of other rabbit holes from them. _Thanks for the links!_ The one in the first picture of the article under "Backcountry Super Cubs" is similar but the wing struts, elevator, gear and nose cowling seem quite different and can't see the full tail.
> 
> 
> 
> The Backcountry Boss has some features of the one in Jons post except a 4 seater, and has dual wing struts. Backcountry BOSS – Backcountry Super Cubs
> 
> The one in Jon's pic is definitely not a 4 seater, has a tail like a T-38 and the fuselage, wings and the engine cowling looks like the Lycoming version of the Kit Fox with the Alaskan 26-29" tire add-on. Only way to know for sure is if Jon could source the Gif/MP4 somehow and we could rabbit hole that.
> 
> I may be wrong and happy to admit it but mainly corn-fuselaged. 
> ...



You're not kidding on eyes for details! Very impressed. The one in Jon's video is originally from their Instagram page. And totally right on not being a 4 seater (SQ4), it's the SQ12 (Piper 12 variant) which I don't think they do anymore (just do the regular width like a PA-18 and the 4 seater BOSS (Bushmaster/Super Pacer). Anyways here's the original with a bunch of other cool stuff on their page. https://www.instagram.com/p/BpXSiZdg...n_native_share

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PJs (Jan 28, 2019)

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## PJs

> You're not kidding on eyes for details! Very impressed. The one in Jon's video is originally from their Instagram page. And totally right on not being a 4 seater (SQ4), it's the SQ12 (Piper 12 variant) which I don't think they do anymore (just do the regular width like a PA-18 and the 4 seater BOSS (Bushmaster/Super Pacer). Anyways here's the original with a bunch of other cool stuff on their page. https://www.instagram.com/p/BpXSiZdg...n_native_share



Oh My, that was Great Briankirk725! Quite the rabbit hole this morning and his instagram main page is a treasure trove of shots and posts...I loved one of the posts that said..."That doesn't look like a helicopter". LOL The shot of the Glacier fly by was stunning and my favorite.

Looks to me that the SQ12 has gone through many a iterations including the rudder designs. Continual tweaking, some minor, some more substantial, all in that mode of finding the right combo in a EAA cutting edge quest for perfection...but the flying of it and joy of the journey's and sights with the camaraderie of those cutting that edge is what it's about to me.

Found this interview with Wayne Mackey on the EAA site. Inspiration for those interested and in the spirit of HMT! Watch his expressions...worth the few minutes to learn a little of what goes on with STOL and experimental aircraft.

Valdez: Wayne Mackeyâs Stolquest - News & Features - EAA Video 

Briankirk725, welcome to HMT.  :Welcome:  Looking forward to more of your posts, interests and builds. Most of all thanks for making my day and learning some new cool stuff, I enjoy learning about...but now I have Sooo many questions.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

 :Hat Tip: 
PJ

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## ranald

> Piper cub? Maybe modded a little for this kind of stuff. Also, like many aviation GIFs, probably perfect wind in this one.



Hi Jon & thanks again. I mentioned flying with magnets. Have you seen the cordless bungee jump.

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## Mi Tasol

Do a search for the Valdez Alaska STOL competition

This is the 2018 worlds record short landing

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Scotsman Hosie (Apr 11, 2019)

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## Jon

Not a STOL, but a spectacular approach! Queenstown, New Zealand. I probably would have diverted to another airport, but this is still awesome to see.



Your browser does not support the video tag.

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baja (Apr 14, 2019),

high-side (Apr 11, 2019),

Scotsman Hosie (Apr 11, 2019),

Seedtick (Apr 11, 2019),

Tonyg (Apr 11, 2019),

Toolmaker51 (Apr 10, 2019)

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## Frank S

That's a situation where you have to trust the controller and have faith in your instruments

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## Scotsman Hosie

> He doesn't know that take-offs are optional, but landings are mandatory. He also looks like he is breaking flight rules by flying a hang glider in IFR conditions.



My thoughts exactly. Why would anyone want to fly into IFR conditions  in a hang-glider? Not sure you could count on catching a thermal  back to higher ground.

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